which game represents the best 3D translation of the action-platformer?
Literally Maximo.
>>12439153How can you not know about Maximo?
>>12439156>>12439158I knew this would come up, and I enjoy Maximo for what it is, but it really isn't like GnG at all outside of aesthetic connections in GnG you have to deal with enemies near constantly and can't simply navigate around them, whereas in Maximo they're not really a challenge. if anything the platforming in Maximo is the biggest hurdle GnG is a game where you have to constantly assess and prioritize threats and think about where the enemies will be moments from the present, and none of that dynamic is there in Maximo. plus there's no time limit to push you forward, from what I remember
>>12439164That's the extra dimension at work
>>12439164It LITERALLY follows the same pattern as the other two. Stop trying to seem like a smartass.
>>12439164So basically you're purposely getting caught up on specific details and ignoring the overall comparison that falls in line with the other two examples. Either a bot or a contrarian.
>>12439452>at work>being able to avoid enemies near completely, totally unlike GnGworking real well huh>>12439538I'm not trying to seem like anything. I laid out my reasoning for why it's nothing like GnG and you've yet to convince me otherwise>>12439545>falls in line with the other two examplesI chose those examples for a good reason, it's that they best represent a faithful adaptation to 3D of those styles of gameplay I chose Crash over Mario 64 because unlike Mario 64 you can't just walk around obstacles or enemies, which makes it similar to DKC. Miyamoto even discussed this in regards to Crash and SM64I chose Tomb Raider because it has no HUD, sprawling level design, a focus on realism and such similar to cinematic platformers like PoP, and I can't think of a better 3D representation of that genre in 2Djust because Maximo is technically a spiritual successor to GnG does not automatically mean it's a direct evolution or progression of what GnG feels like to play. is Munch's Oddysee a faithful recreation of Oddworld's 2D gameplay, just because it shares the same IP? fuck no, and the same could be said of something like Super Metroid to Metroid Prime damn this place is full of midwits. I'd have been better off asking this on /v/ with the level of game design insight you guys are capable of providing
>>12439671First of all, you never expressed that in the first place. Combine that with the fact that you only look at what Maximo does differently from GnG rather than what it does similarly, how the fuck was anyone supposed to know what you meant? Read your mind?Finally I disagree with that assessment regarding Maximo's enemy design, there are plenty of situations that try to force combat on the player like restraining movement through level design, infinite spawns, enemies that follow you or shoot at you from a distance, etcThe same can be said about Mario 64's obstacles; and inversely there are plenty of situations in Crash and DKC in which running past an enemy like it's not even there is trivial.I don't think your "level of game design insight" is as high as you think it is, which makes you and the high horse you're sitting on look ridiculous.
>>12439671>you've yet to convince me otherwiseYou'll be alone in your reasoning, and therefore a midwit
>>12439164>>12439671CorrectIts similar to how "mash forward to go faster" for blobbers got lost in the transition to 3D.
>>12439671>I chose Crash over Mario 64 because They both have a single lane of movement in most cases, but I'm going to make up some bullshit about not being able to avoid enemies even though it still very much allows you to>I chose Tomb Raider because It has a similar architecture and focus on the environment being one of the biggest obstacles and dangers, but going to focus on the fact that there's no onscreen hud for some gay reason instead of the obvious comparisonsPeople aren't comparing Maximo because of its legacy, just like a lot of people hated most of the 3D Castlevanias at the time due to how much they deviated from playing like Castlevania games regardless of the perspective change. You call people midwits but can't even convey your convoluted question due to focusing on specific details that wouldn't be apparent compared to the obvious ones when presented without context, o wise scholar.
>>12439164>constantly spawning enemies>rapid firing>arcade style score chasing mechanics>3DThat's literally Gungrave
>>12439156Again, fuck off with this. Maximo is NOTHING like GnG outside of surface level details on the FIRST level. That game is objectively hot steaming garbage. It's fucking awful and nothing like GnG.
>>12439164Not surprising that the 6th gen babies responding just don't get this at all. Interesting how they simply don't even seem to notice the effects of 3D dead space.>>12439545The specific details are really important.Prince of Persia and Tomb Raider are both exploration games that reward patient, deliberate positioning and execution for the platforming segments. Crash Bandicoot is a lane platformer with side-scrolling levels with a lot of similarity to DKC in gamefeel (not merely aesthetics-- Crash plays much more like DKC than Mario, for example).And he's right. Maximo only counts if you totally ignore all the 3D navigation bloat. Totally changes the gamefeel.
desu it doesn't really exist. the spatial timing component of those games doesn't translate to 3d without major compromises or making the thing in question unrecognizable, z axis fucks everything up.
>>12439671Yeah I noticed you didn't choose "ALTTP" -> "Ocarina of Time" either. That's another genre where the shift to 3D completely changed the nature of the game.>damn this place is full of midwits.Especially since 2020.
>>12439839He did cite Crash Bandicoot, which leverages 3D mechanics to implement mostly-linear platforming content with limited 3D elements.
>>12439835>This universally loved game? It's bad! Everyone is wrong but me!
>>12439847>That's another genre where the shift to 3D completely changed the nature of the game.I'm not sure if I agree with that. in a game without an aiming or jumping mechanic being a core part of the gameplay, how different is the moment to moment from an x/y ovehead game? a lot of static puzzle elements could be logically abstracted as 3d in a 2d game.
>>12439838>The specific details are really important.>Proceeds to give zero explanation of the scope within the question and only apply it in regards to dismissals.>calls everyone midwits for not understanding this arbitrary attempt at logic>Crash Bandicoot is a lane platformer with side-scrolling levels with a lot of similarity to DKC in gamefeelShit like this is understood, you're very specifically focused on the perspective adjustment to the concept of a lane, even though other 3D sidescrollers actually keep true to how lanes work in 2D platformers, and some even expand on the concept with 2.5D routes through levels and transitions like Goemon's Great Adventure. You're obviously focused on the perspective and depiction alone.Your PoP and TR comparisons are so vague they apply to countless other games, and even games like the Tenchu series had traps and pitfalls that needed to be carefully navigated as well (though to be fair, Tenchu had TR inspiration.) it was a pretty standard thing for games making the transition to 3D platforming to carry those concepts, including the 3D PoP games themselves.Maximo carries over most of the elements that make sense for the transition in perspective. Stuff like having a thrown weapon with a fast rate of fire wasn't exactly conducive to perspective change and devoured resources, and the rest are stupid comparisons:>in GnG you have to deal with enemies near constantly and can't simply navigate around them, you can absolutely avoid enemies in the GnG games, even if bosses need to be beaten.>whereas in Maximo they're not really a challengeOh but wait now we're talking about difficulty in vague terms. Specific to enemies themselves? Encounter structure? Who knows!>if anything the platforming in Maximo is the biggest hurdleThis is actually a comparison point TO GnG, as it has very deliberate controls and some obnoxious platforming points in the series.The last two points could apply to fucking chess.
>>12439164>dealing with enemies constantly (spawning)is incompatible with the combination of 1-touch death and 3D camera. >time limitis not a mechanic. It literally only exists to prevent infinite scoring.
>>12439879>how different is the moment to moment from an x/y ovehead game? a lot of static puzzle elements could be logically abstracted as 3d in a 2d game.Because ALTTP is fundamentally an action game about fighting enemies, integrated with puzzles. The fact that you immediately went to the "puzzle elements" reflects the bias and lack of familiarity about what the 2D Zelda games were originally about.
>>12439850I was speaking in terms of something specifically like ghouls and ghosts, where the game is built around an offensive extension of the player that requires precise timing and spacing. every game I've encountered with a similar premise BUT 3D either demphesizes spacing/timing or it becomes a reticle based shooter.
>>12439890That would probably because 3D space allows for a lot more avenues of movement, requires more enemies to box in, and resources were minimal when the transition happened. There are certain things that don't translate well between perspectives, especially when limi8ted by hardware, so there are some elements of games that never survive those types of transitions. Thats why so many games change so drastically with their perspective, so you can't try to pidgeonhole your focus on specifics that can't realistically carry over.
>>12439890There's rarely dense action in 3D games that's like GnG. I'm thinking of things which come close to being as relentless, even in small segments and the only thing I can think of is true blue action games like Ninja Gaiden and DMC, and very modern titles like Returnal/Ratchet and Clank which are not like GnG.Maximo, a great game and does a lot of leg work to cement itself as a challenging 3D action platformer that recognizes how elements like currency are gamified better than most does the 3D action bit better than any of its contemporaries or predecessors.There is just no 3D action game that is as relentless as GnG and there's harsh limits on how enemies are spawned in due to camera limitations, and this impacts bosses as well. I don't think it can't be done but Maximo very well may be the best it gets while still being a platform game.
>>12439889no, I mentioned them because they'd be the most obvious use of the z axis to separate a 2d and 3d game barring a jumping or aiming mechanic.
>>12439880>Your PoP and TR comparisons are so vagueNo they aren't.It's clear you haven't actually played those games.
>>12440081>Prince of Persia and Tomb Raider are both exploration games that reward patient, deliberate positioning and execution for the platforming segments.>No other game has ever done any of this in a similar way, only those two.
>Boy, everyone is stupid except me!OP in a nutshell. I'd post the picture but I don't wanna bump this shit thread
>>12440616Why not?
>>12439671>is Munch's Oddysee a faithful recreation of Oddworld's 2D gameplay, just because it shares the same IP?Yes, it absolutely is.
>>12439838>And he's right. Maximo only counts if you totally ignore all the 3D navigation bloat. Totally changes the gamefeel.Maximo is linear stages, it's not fucking DK64. Just because those linear pathways now have some depth and the ability to move in the third dimension, does not change the fact that it's replicating moment to moment survival aspects with limited health options like the original games.
>>12440081There is no element to TR's combat that is comparable to the combat of a 2D cinematic platformer.
>>12439906I agree with the Ninja Gaiden comparison, especially Ninja Gaiden 2. Most other 3D platformers are all collectathons designed for babys and autists.
>>12440780Yes dear, that's why I said platforming not combat
>>12439153None of those. Croc: Legend of the Gobbos
>>12439156>>12439158>>12439164It called Castlevania LoI
>>12439153Hmm maybe Nightmare Creatures or Blasto?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtD1NcGGyDEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNYe1ubrzlcAlthough Gauntlet Legends sends wave after wave of enemies after you similar to the infinite spawning enemies of NES action gameshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu-r9G1Ih9s
>>12439153Dynasty warriors
Jet Set Radio
