How good (or bad) is Woolsey's translation of FF6 and Chrono Trigger?
It's okay.This thread will devolve into weebs v. snobs v. people who don't care about the story, like it always do.
>>12446795Personally I can't enjoy the FF6 story without gaping my rectum first.
My dictionary says:気にくわない is "unable to stomache / cannot stand"So none of those translations seem on the money.More like it should be: "Locke: I can't stand those guys. Edgar: Where's Terra?"However you translate kinikuwanai, the glaring flaw is that yatsura is definitely plural and therefore "that man" and "that guy" is right out.
>>12446787Oh you didn't learn a foreign language in order to play a video game? Get out of face!
>>12446787FF6: given the short timeframe, crappy conditions, the script getting sent back over and over, having to record gameplay on VHS tapes to use as a reference for how to tackle scenes once he was working on the script... I'd say that it's a miracle FF6 turned out as well as it did, with only the errors it contains. Most people under identical conditions, no matter how skilled they are, would not be able to produce something as decent as Woolsey managed.Now, with infinite time, infinite hindsight, and infinite analysis? That's when you could start to call Woolsey's work unacceptable.
>>12446820agreed. I'd just like to add that the internet seems to expect everyone hired for a position be the best person the universe has conceived. In the real world we take jobs we suck at to pay the bills and the bosses hire us knowing we kind of suck but we were the guy who was available and willing to work within budget and everyone hopes it'll work out and we'll get better over time.
>>12446804>the glaring flaw is that yatsura is definitely plural and therefore "that man" and "that guy" is right out.It's a consistent localization choice to make Kefka overshadow the empire.
>>12446809Picrel is my nigga
>>12446820Pretty much this. It's how I first played the game and I appreciate it for what it is. That said, I played through it again semi-recently, and the translation is pretty rough in some parts. It goes beyond the Woolseyisms, inaccuracies, and censorship, too. There's dialogue that straight up makes close to zero sense in context, and it took me out of the game whenever I encountered it. The GBA translation, while less pithy, at least is pretty consistent across the board. Too bad there's STILL no hack that just imports the script without adding a bunch of other shit on top.
>>12446981>Pretty much this. It's how I first played the game and I appreciate it for what it is. That said, I played through it again semi-recently, and the translation is pretty rough in some parts. It goes beyond the Woolseyisms, inaccuracies, and censorship, too. There's dialogue that straight up makes close to zero sense in context, and it took me out of the game whenever I encountered it. The GBA translation, while less pithy, at least is pretty consistent across the board. Too bad there's STILL no hack that just imports the script without adding a bunch of other shit on top.https://cdromance.org/snes-rom/final-fantasy-v-script-port-hack/https://cdromance.org/snes-rom/final-fantasy-vi-gba-text-minus-pop-culture-references-hack/Ted Woolsey Uncensored Edition Scripthttps://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy6pixelremaster/mods/39
It adds soulWeeaboo translations will just add a bunch of ellipses and stupid Eva type bullshit
It doesn’t matter.
It's goodit's not accurate, and that is a good thing
>>12446991>without adding a bunch of other shit on top
What do you even want, play old games or some garbage mutilated nu-version? I will NEVER apply your gay-ass "fixes" whether it's irrelevant bug fixes, different fonts, "QOL" or heavens forbid an "improved reTRANSlation"
>>12446981The GBA version is basically a gigantic proofread of the SNES version that crossreferences both existing Eng and Jap scripts. I find it endlessly amusing that a bunch of autistic script editors didn't understand that and made their own definitive proofreads of the definitive proofread. All because a few Kefka lines were tweaked and our cultural nostalgia was at stake.>>12446991>gba-text-minus-pop-culture-referencesFun fact: The pixel remaster version (might've started with the old mobile version but who cares since it's unlisted and the only proof of its existence is that annoying guy who changed all the screenshots on the wiki to be more "canon" or whatever) replaced the "Cefca cult" line, probably because it was hate-fuel for all those autists. Dunno if this resembles any hack. Meanwhile, Edgar's line after meeting Relm in Thamasa is based on the NOA-censored SNES line, and this time I think even the Jap version was censored.
>>12446787there could quite literally be no dialogue in the game at all and the story would still be perfectly understandable. the pearl clutching over this crap is just indicative about how big of a faggot final fantasy fans are, treating these retarded games like religious doctrine.
I think FF6 could use another translation
>>12446787It's fine considering the constraints he was under. The second translation made for the GBA release is also fine. I wish more games had two fine translations.
>>12447606I think you should die in a fire.
>>12447606Ever notice that RHDN has "Translation" and "Hack" categories, and these people never fucking submit their shit as a "Translation"? It's because they know deep down they are full of shit and hope you don't notice. They tend to use weasel-words like "relocalization" to trick your brain like a desperate little worm eating away at your heart. On that metric, yes, Final Fantasy VI COULD use another retranslation-- because there hasn't been an earnest attempt at one since the mid-2000's! But no one will do it because of those losers muddying the waters.
>>12447602Eh, it's just a big culture shock when you realise that game you grew up with isn't a faithful translation of the original. You start to wonder whether what you believed about your favorite characters and their motivations was just a 2am caffeine fuelled deadline born mistake. You then get the fan translations and find they differ wildly, so you get the JP script and your choice of tools and have a go yourself and realise that translating JP is a lot harder than it looks and even with your best logic hat on you'll still not know if "ケフカはまともな人間じゃありません" is actually a cultural thing that means something much closer to the six pack line than a "he's not normal."
>>12447865>a 2am caffeine fuelled deadline born mistakeThe real redpill is learning that most things you grew up on are 2am caffeine fuelled deadline born mistakes, it's called art through adversity.
>>12446795>implying weebs are not snobs
Chrono Triggers translation on DS is pretty good.
>>12447865The problem is taking this shit that seriously.I imagine most of the people who care about retranslations and shit aren't religious but they treat the scripts of 90s video games for kids as some holy doctrine that must be perfectly translated.The only story whose translation matters is the bible. End of. Everything else is just entertainment and you can head canon it any way you like, it does not matter.
>>12446820>having to record gameplay on VHS tapes to use as a reference for how to tackle scenes once he was working on the scriptSeriously? Shit, no wonder the translations from that era were so wonky. The translators basically had nothing but context clues to work on!
>>12447983If you retranslate something, you better make damn sure you're not wasting anyone's time.>you can head canon it any way you like, it does not matterFuck off.
>>12448000No, he’s right and your taste in anime is shit.
>>12448000Unfortunately, every fan-retranslation had proven to be a waste of time.**UNLESS there are significant gameplay tweaks that make playing a rawer translation of the original a valuable experience, like Final Fantasy IV.
>>12448000Fuck off is not an argument, it's an emotional response typical of a stupid wrong bitch.
>>12448020>>12448052Dude, saying "you can head canon it any way you like" is like saying ad-libbing makes you a translater. Do we have a FFVI "relocalizer" in this thread or what?
>>12448067Still being emotional. Woman brain.
>>12448067>saying "you can head canon it any way you like" is like saying ad-libbing makes you a translater.No it does not you faggot. It's saying that ultimately whether or not a translation is correct is trivial. Whether you want to call terra TERRA or TINA does not matter at all. When the story ends you can think whatever you want about what happens next. It's just fiction and beyond that its just simple fiction, these games aren't that deep or scholarly shit that you must debate and know all the facts about.
>>12448067>ad-libbing makes you a translaterYes it can unless you're translating a literal holy text that will affect belief systems and lives.
>>12447983>I imagine most of the people who care about retranslations and shit aren't religious but they treat the scripts of 90s video games for kids as some holy doctrine that must be perfectly translated.... Yes, that is the whole point, the impotus, of making a retranslation! If a previous translation can't take itself seriously, it is the job of the retranslation to fill in that niche. People who don't take their task seriously is how a game like Final Fantasy VI can have over a dozen alternatives, addendums, forks, etc. that confuse the laymen and make them want to give up even trying.
>>12448124I don't think you get the point.
>>12448124>People who don't take their task seriously is how a game like Final Fantasy VI can have over a dozen alternatives, addendums, forks, etc. that confuse the laymen and make them want to give up even trying.It was actually something like a freakish combination of "I hate Woolsey more than you!" preaching to the sub-IQ rhdn choir along with authors scrambling to concoct the perfect qol potion (nontext addition to their texthacks solely designed to dickmeasure against the other guy) which happened in the wake of the Legends of Localization analysis that underestimated its own audience.
Woolsey did nothing wrong
>>12446795It ALWAYS does. I honestly wonder if some of the autistic retards that consistently bitch about this stuff realize that most people don't even know, nor CARE about other retranslations. It's just, oh hey I played Final Fantasy VI when it was called Final Fantasy III. Oh, they released it on GBA? Cool. Oh they changed a few things. Or hey, I want to play Final Fantasy for the first time and I am buying the Pixel Remaster. Then they come to this cancer of a board, only to hear people bitch about which mod author out there that they hate, instead of hearing about the GAME itself. They can't even bring themselves to talk about the original games and their original translations. Like someone above said, it isn't the BIBLE, so it is just fiction.
>>12448510He really didn't, Square's demands were often ridiculous and most complaints come down to either 90's NoA censorship or autists not understanding language, with a rare MAYBE-10% (likely less) where the complaint is actually legit. Woolsey rewriters are among the most loathsome creatures on the planet.
>>12446787Good but flawed, every official rerelease with a translation update is an objective improvement that respects what made the original Woolsey version great while correcting genuine mistranslations and compacted information, like if he had an editor with another month or two's worth of time, which is the right approach.
>>12447865> you'll still not know if "ケフカはまともな人間じゃありません" is actually a cultural thing that means something much closer to the six pack line than a "he's not normal."I think in this case Woolsey just opted to render it in a sillier way.
>>12447441the problem with that mentality is that woosleys translations are so inaccurate to even the tone of the game that they are the videogame equivalent of an abridged series. Just like how I think that while Dragon Ball Abridged is neat in concept, I would also like there to be the option of a more genuine and accurate translation.Imagine if fucking Dragon Ball Abridged was somehow official and the only official Western release of Dragonball Z for decades.
>>12447983>The only story whose translation matters is the bible.That one is quite the rabbithole
>>12448895>woosleys translations are so inaccurate to even the tone of the gameThe only one this is true of is Final Fantasy VI.
>>12448895>Imagine if fucking Dragon Ball Abridged was somehow official and the only official Western release of Dragonball Z for decades.Compare DBZ with Kai.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkCnE_dhxqIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IKaouoBgKYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMRB0QL-F4Y Episodes 1-67 got dubbed twice, the first time by Ocean Studios in the mid-late '90s with an editing cut-down to 53 episodes. The second time in properly uncut form spanning those initial 67 episodes in the mid-2000s was done by FUNimation's own in-house cast.Episodes 68-291 got dubbed primarily once.
>>12446787perfectly fine and wont even think twice about it unless youre an insufferable autistic loser.
>>12447983>muh biblethat translation matters less than FFVI.
>>12447983>lol who caresSays the guy who cares a lot about how an old worthless entertainment book is translated.I could understand you if you just didn't care (even though I obviously don't agree with you), but adding the religious faggot shit in the end makes you a retarded hypocrite.
>>12447983It's pretty nihilistic to basically say that art doesn't matter.
>>12449268Damn, the GBA and Fan-translation versions of that line seem switched at birth, for once.
>>12449039Ouch, so edgy, man.
>>12446787Tecmo's Secret of the Stars exists, so his work is still acceptable at worst.
>>12449268Amazing how none can just say "world"
>>12447865That’s what localization SHOULD be and nothing else: taking cultural sayings that have no direct translation and “translating” them into the host language and cultural norms.
>>12449302That's not a cultural saying, and that line in particular has a direct translation.
>boy, I tell ya, that Kefka fella just ain't right.
>>12449268I appreciate what the GBA version is trying to do here in theory, but it doesn't have the same 'zing' and fails flat trying to 'marry' the English and Japanese versions, which the Fan version actually succeeds in this one instance. It probably needed another draft......Although now that I think of it, "non-existence" was most likely NOA censorship. I just glanced over at Ted Woolsey Uncensored Edition and the guy did NOT catch that. Amazing. All these revisions and the current version still fails to uncensor Woolsey. What even was the point of his rom hack?
>>12449321It's the same reason why most fan-retranslations of Chrono Trigger refuse to change Masamune back to Grandleon: they think the mistake is too iconic to fix.
>>12449321I admit the fan version reads better, but it's so far off the beaten path of what was said in Japanese that it might as well not even be the same line.It says a lot when the most accurate version of the line is the GBA version and even that won't go the extra mile to keep it accurate.
>>12446787It was an adequate translation given both technical and censorship constraints that Woolsey had to work with.Fan """translations""" can go die in a fire though.
>>12449321>What even was the point of his rom hack?The early version of TWUE was basically an edit of the RPGOne version with the GBA version and some wiki-cheatsheeting thrown in, typical amateur "Woolsey sucks but I don't need to be a translator to tell you that" energy, then when Legends of Localization finished with Final Fantasy VI all these circling vultures smelled fresh meat and made their own hacks meant to supplant TWUE, which the guy responded to by...overhauling his hack to mainly be based on SNES script so he can keep his position as the default hack and letting his follow-the-leaders fight over tablescraps...Ironically, going back to the now-personanongrata RPGOne version is probably the ONE new idea left in FFVI-textediting (besides, y'know, just having them be textedits and stripping out the silly bigdick gameplay modifications).
>>12449426Props to the GBA translator for keeping お宝 as treasure, rather than treasure chest.And an unbelievably huge L to the """fan""" translator for making 俺様 become MR. ME
>>12448510Yeah actually the accurate translation for this is >Can't you see I love sake?Because a game set in a fictional European style medieval fantasy totally meant to have irl Japan specific alcohol in it. Yep, 100% accurate.
>>12449439'Sake' is one of those Japanese ambiguity issues as well because the word can refer to Japanese rice wine as well as a genericization of ANY alcoholic beverage, because sake is that ingrained in culture. It's like how 'yari' can both be a certain make of Japanese spears, the historical weapon, as well as a general word for any spear. (That one I didn't like the change to Speardovich because it felt like Nintendo dumbing the word down when I think more kids will know what a yari is now than back then thanks to Wikipedia, whereas "sake" in FFVI or CT is contextually probably not literal sake so cider is perfectly acceptable.)
>>12446787/vr/ might as well do their own translation patch at this point.
>>12449439To be fair, "sake" can technically refer to any kind of alcohol in much the same way "meshi" can refer to any kind of meal, not just cooked rice. But even so, if that's what they wrote, then that's what they wrote. It's not the translator's job to make the food more setting-appropriate.Even apart from the soda bit, the line still isn't accurately translated. It should be>うるせェ、人が気持ちよく飮んでんのに! 大工が酒を飮んで、何が悪いってんだ!>Shut it! I'm just trying to enjoy my damn drink over here! So a carpenter's having some booze, what's so wrong with that?But all of this is irrelevant since soda is clearly censorship.
>>12449473>But all of this is irrelevant since soda is clearly censorship.That, and the script had to be cut, or "creatively shortened" due to limits on cartridge space.
>>12449481Eh, the translational choices don't seem to be based on character count. Even if the hard limit was exactly 77 characters like the Woolsey version, we can still write something more faithful in that space>Quiet! I'm trying to enjoy my drink here! Can't a carpenter have some booze?
>>12449291In a way, he's not wrong. First off, there's a gorillion translations, some better than others in terms of accuracy and scholarship, but even though we now have very high-quality, rigorously vetted translations far superior to older ones with access to many more and much more ancient manuscripts and manuscript traditions, many denominations clutch their pearls and stick to much older translations such as KJV for traditional or dogmatic reasons, and then they end up cherrypicking or reinterpreting passages to fit said dogmas and traditions anyway. So in a way, it kind of doesn't matter how well it's translated, people will kind of always find a way to do what they will with the text anyway.
>>12449473>It's not the translator's job to make the food more setting-appropriate.The advantage of working for the company is that the translator can put out an internal memo asking something like "hey what is this thing supposed to be?" and then any translation ambiguity can be resolved fairly quickly. Not saying that's necessarily what happened here, but the fact that the Narshe hidden cave note seems like a corpo-mandated addition put in post indicates some small creative back-and-forth was going on. Most likely, if censorship wasn't a factor, the response would be that it wasn't actual sake. "Cider" was probably specifically chosen BECAUSE there's another ambiguity in English: it can be an alcholic or nonalcoholic beverage. I'm actually surprised Nintendo allowed cider back then, it's a very interesting workaround. Maybe they realized it afterwards and then banned it from Chrono Trigger's translation?>Even apart from the soda bit, the line still isn't accurately translated.I think in the DS version, it's>Who're you to tell me when I've had enough? You're worse than the wife! What's wrong with a carpenter having a few pints in the afternoon, eh?and in the fan translation,>Shaddup, a guys's drinkin and feelin good! I'll tell you when I've had enough! What's wrong witha carpenter drinkin' sake!?My recollection is that Toma uses the word "spirits" in the Middle Ages, and then in Prehistory, a cute line was added: "skull-smash! Next day, skull feel like smash!" to strongly imply it was alcohol without having to use a more sophisticated word.
>>12449490KJV is actually pretty well translated, especially given the time period it was done in. Like you said, we have access to more manuscripts than just the Textus Receptus, Masoretic Text, etc., but it's not really the philosophy of translation that's improved (lectio difficilior potior defenders gtfo), but rather better cultural understanding and resources to decipher said text (blatant errors like Phil. 1:27 not withstanding). And truthfully, none of this actually changes the agreed upon Christian doctrine.Of course, all of this is ignoring the fact that anon was just being edgy.
>>12449501Would calling it ale have been a better substitute than just soda? Kids know of ginger ale, but adults also know that ale can be alcoholic, plus it fits within the remaining 3-space text limit for when you get a bottle to pour over Toma's grave.
>>12449486>Eh, the translational choices don't seem to be based on character countThat's why I said>That, andSo, among other issues with the translation, it also had to be kept short.It ALSO contributed to the original translation being lower quality.
>>12449505>And truthfully, none of this actually changes the agreed upon Christian doctrineWhile largely correct, again, I'd argue this is mostly because even IF it did, few Christians will revise their deeply-held traditions and dogmas just from textual revisions. Those are far too ingrained for that too happen. For that to happen, wider and more far-reaching cultural changes have to take place, and what happens in that case is the text, regardless of translation, is renegotiated with and passages are used to justify or approve whatever it is that changed.
>>12449501>Shaddup, a guys's drinkin and feelin good! I'll tell you when I've had enough! What's wrong witha carpenter drinkin' sake!?One thing I will never understand about fan translations is why they always end up working in lines from the localization. The "I'll tell you when I've had enough!" part is never actually said. They also amateurishly take 気持ちよく as being in its conjunctive form, thus resulting in the verb phrase "feeling good," when here it's acting as an adverb. It's a nitpick, but he's not "drinking and feeling good," he's "enjoyably drinking," or more colloquially, he's "enjoying his drink."I mean, if the point is to be more accurate, why include the Woolsey-isms? Feels counterintuitive. Then again, the FFVI re-translations all read like no one actually checked the Japanese.
>>12449547Why are you so fucking obsessed with fantranslations? Who even uses that trash, it's not early 2000 anymore.
>>12449547>One thing I will never understand about fan translations is why they always end up working in lines from the localization.It'd be understandable if there was just a SNES version and an official retranslation was just a hypothetical, but the GBA version exists. We already know what the end result of Square commissioning an official retranslation that works in aspects of the previous localization is. These people aren't moving up in the world. Square probably hates them for making them step around eggshells going forward.>Then again, the FFVI re-translations all read like no one actually checked the Japanese.They literally don't; the stupid git who started the dogpiling on TWUE had the nerve to name their hack "Retranslated" when 1) they submitted it as a Hack (again always a telltale sign that it's not a real Translation) and 2) they went on a spiel about how they don't *need* to know any Japanese, all the translation notes and resources are available to them on the internet and Woolsey sucks any and they had a translator tulpa on their head and blahblahblah
>>12449565Because fan TLs kind of have this unspoken agreement of being more free and less editorialized than their official counterparts. If they're also treating the source text as malleable, then non-Japanese speakers have nothing to trust.
>>12449581Fan trans are garbage, end of story. Leave them in the past.
>>12449575>they went on a spiel about how they don't *need* to know any Japanese, all the translation notes and resources are available to them on the internet and Woolsey sucks any and they had a translator tulpa on their head and blahblahblahThat's probably the craziest part. Imagine rewriting an entire script just based off of some guy's website articles. Like, they look at it and go, "Oh, it means that, does it? Well then, leave the rest to me, teeheehee >:)"
>>12449565Not him, but there is plenty of interesting stuff to learn by looking at different translated works and trying to understand how and why certain choices are made, whether they be good or bad, correct or in error.A game I find has a remarkably decent translation, ZOE 2173 Testament (especially when compared with the absolute tire fires which were the PS2 ZOE titles) has plenty of moments that make me wonder why they felt the need to change something, yet plenty of other moments where they were absolutely correct to re-order stuff, reframe things, be creative in interpreting open-ended and hazy stuff, etc.This line, for example, didn't really need to be changed.>Warren: "...Guess the reaper ain't much fond of me."Yet the official TL reads>Warren: "...Death doesn't suit me, it seems."Since the same overall intention is conveyed, it's not like the change matters, but at the same time, on that same basis, it makes you wonder.
>>12449524I'd argue the opposite, seeing as how so many of them already freely read from newer translations like the NIV/NASB. Though, I personally believe most of the KJV's translations are still defensible, if not still preferred to modern readings.
>>12449597My point is just that it takes a lot more than just new, revised textual translations for people to change their beliefs or religious practices, and very often they don't figure much at all. Much of the time, it's only once sensibilities change and people more or less collectively decide things like that something or other is no longer acceptable or that the old traditions no longer hold weight that the text is consulted for justification, and yes, sometimes this will be done by appealing to newer, less traditional translations, but it's not a necessary condition for it. Even traditional translations have been appealed to when arguing for or against certain beliefs and practices.
I've yet to see a retranslation of any kind that drastically altered the way you interpret the story.
>>12449595>it's not like the change mattersI wish this and >>12449660 wasn't the prevailing mentality. If the text is unimportant, or if only a vague sentiment should be conveyed, then objectivity in translation fails.
>>12449463I just spent an hour doing some basic text-editing in FF3usME (the game's universal text-editor) but because of some gross hacks slapped on GBA Text, it's incompatible with the in-battle text, so I can't check what those edits are so easily. Other hacks I've tested like TWUE are even less compatible. All these nontext hacks make the game less readible and these guys had the time to meticulously hex-edit so they have their one-size-fits-all patches. I don't know if I should feel impressed or saddened.But screw the "just-trust-me-bro" GBA hack; if an anon can point me in the direction of a full text dump of the GBA version, I may be able to go further.
>>12449595>it's not like the change matters>I wish this and >>12449660 (You) wasn't the prevailing mentality. If the text is unimportant, or if only a vague sentiment should be conveyed, then objectivity in translation fails.
>>12449773For real though and I wasn't trying to be dismissive at all; it would be really interesting to see what this board could pull off with everyone's collective autism in an attempt to achieve the best translation possible for something like FF6. There are so many hacks out there and it seems only a few of them are any decent, but it doesn't seem like anyone has gone fully in with a proper re-translation.
>>12449773>All these nontext hacks make the game less readible and these guys had the time to meticulously hex-edit so they have their one-size-fits-all patches.I've said for years that it's insidiously designed so anyone who wants to make another hack has to suck Rodimus's ass for his megahack tonic that all of these hacks use on Rhdn.
>>12449792I'm thinking the idea is...>Step 0: use Total Graphics Uncensorship + optional Original MP Growth hack as the base. All this does is make the game look and feel more like the Super Famicom version, and it's fully compatible with FF3usME, so it'll be our control.>Step 1: compare JP texts to ensure there aren't differences between SFC and GBA that need to be accounted for, keep notes for later if we do.>Step 2: mostly port over the GBA text, except in the occasions where the SNES text is closer, case-by-case what to do with any differences found in previous step.>Step 3: begin further modifications of the script line-by-line by comparing JP directly.>Step 4* optional "Advanced" flavor of the hack that adds dashing and bugfixes found -only- from official rereleases. This is a complete afterthought and not priority. Maybe name-sets too (Default/SNES/GBA..) if you're inclined.
>caring about the plot
>>12449859>surely MY retranslation done without knowing japanese will be the superior one
This thread made me think of an idea that will save romhack translations forever. Maybe I'll put it to use. Thanks.
>>12449463>>12449773>>12449792>>12449859Step 1: Put GBA script in original game. Oh wait, they already did that. What a stupid idea.
>>12449987Nah, just gauging what it would take here. The idea wouldn't be to try to be better than the official version, but to present an alternative to existing text hacks, which are quality-of-life hacks first and retranslations third, and address criticisms. Full disclosure: assuming GBA Text stayed within the scope (need to vet it) then that is probably the best version. If nothing else, because there's no reason to believe people hired by Square Enix aren't privy to info the fans aren't. It'd just be a fun exercise that hopefully quells some of the threads here. Although yeah, involving all of /vr/ may lead to non-translators and jokers pitching in...
>>12450059FF6 romhacking autism is retarded and you are especially retarded for contributing to it. We have the GBA text hack which is fine, nobody asked to pile on more bullshit.
>>12449859>mostly port over the GBA text, except in the occasions where the SNES text is closerMy god, just retranslate it yourself. Translation is not that hard. Tell me I'm not the only one here who knows Japanese.
>>12449928>3DPD>bri'ish 3DPD
>>12450054>>12450070Yeah, the "just trust me bro" FFVI hack...This is FFV GBA Text all over again.
>>12450137Literally the same thing is being said, retard.
>>12450142Excuse me, but we were promised that the patch gave us "the original text directly from Final Fantasy VI Advance," not "I winged the transcription lol, pweez be nice =)" I can't recommend this hack anymore if it doesn't actually squeeze out every bit of available space to do what it said.
>>12450128It's not just about the translation, it's about fitting it in the game; when you have proven scripts, best start from that point and then work in reverse.
>>12450184Just figure out the size limit and make sure every line is constrained to that many characters while translating. Translations don't have to be verbose.
>>12450184>it's not about accuracy, it's about accumulated mistakes that the fandom has Stockholm Syndromed themselves into accepting
>>12450137>>12450142The accurate version doesn't even attempt to make it more accurate. It's just more verbose. The only thing it "fixed" was that it accounted for the the original script's use of 力, but even then, that would be "the power called 'magic'" not "the power of magic."
It's fine99% of literal translation whining is just people who hate the kind of trannies that work as translators trying to pester them. But you could skip the middleman and just hate trannies
>>12450162>that patch listJesus Christ, make an unauthorized version 1.7 that's pried away from MoleMan's molelike hands.
>>12450226>you're hating trannies wrong, bro>you're not doing it right
>>12450137I assume this is false flag right
>>12450226I like my translations accurate, sorry, tranny.
>>12450234Give us a GBA (or PR) text dump and we'll see for ourselves just how well the sketchy ROMhacker did.
>>12450238https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VI_Advance_script
>>12450239A text dump from the game, not a semicasual storybeat transcript anyone can contribute to.
>>12450241https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gba/930370-final-fantasy-vi-advance/faqs/47016
>>12450245>All major grammatical and misspelling errors fixed.This does not inspire confidence that the minor ones weren't.I mean a direct rip from the game, not something some 15-year old whipped up while squinting at his screen.Don't tell me the GBA text author didn't have a working text dump.
>>12450253I'd tell you to hack the rom yourself, but you're too much of a loudmouth dipshit to be competent enough.
Damn, no wonder Final Fantasy hacks have such a stigma, lol.
>>12450259nta but you should get raped and kill yourself for being such a faggot.
>>12450295You are that anon, and it feels me with mirth to know you are seething this impotently.
>>12450296>asked to provide text dump>fails twice>seethes when failure is pointed outlol lmao
>>12450259Nevermind, I found it myself: https://www.ff6hacking.com/wiki/doku.php?id=ff6a:doc:text>>12450296Nope.
>>12450312>uh, my wiki is not a "a semicasual storybeat transcript anyone can contribute to" >but yours isyour jewish lmao
>>12450315>it's a wiki... I legit didn't notice, but the zipped files are untampered from 2008, which it looks predates the site. Would like to know the original source, but it seems legit, having EU and JP versions too.
>>12448895>woosleys translations are so inaccurate to even the tone of the gameNigger, in the scene where Leo and Terra talk about love, it ends with a joke about Locke being seasick.You literally ignore what the game actually is, for some idealized version in your head.They ended serious scenes with comedy, outside of Celes' suicide attempt.
>>12450321Next time try not to threaten rape when you're just a fucking retard.
>>12450321Also, the control-codes were removed, which is great for legibility, but terrible if you need to know where the breaks and pauses are supposed to be for the purposes of hacking. But from the outset, I can see that other lines in the hack's intro were shortened when they mostly didn't have to be. The editor even has a handy indicator of how many bytes are left, and there's plenty, so I think the hack author just liked the way the lines were formatted for some reason. Only the third box needed to be shortened to fit the text with the current font.>>12450341This "lets let /vr/ in on this" idea was isn't going to work out.
>>12450359Sounds like the space optimization fucking sucks, how did the author release six versions of that shit? Guess this is what happens when you prioritize stuff like fixing the notorious "I condemn thee to hell!"(?) bug that of course every FFIII player shook their fist at over the main hack.
>>12450359No 4chan project proposal ever works out, at least not in the modern day. There's a reason "I'll create the logo" used to be a /g/ meme.
>>12450395/vrpg/ has a group that translates games and doesn't seem to have any of the problems you just described.
>>12450230This, priority-one at this point is to just make a better GBA-Text to reset the rhdn 'standard', fuck Rodimus' megahack monopoly.
>>12450395>>12450670>FFIV - Nintendo DS translation (nothing else)>FFV - GBA translation (nothing else)>FFVI - GBA translation (nothing else)Would be kino
>>12450990>fuck Rodimus' megahack monopoly.Fan community discord drama, now on /vr/
>>12450990>RodimusQRD?
>>12451000>FFIV - Nintendo DS translationThe problem with DS (and PSP to a lesser extent) is that a decent chunk of the Japanese script was revised too and so the English translations won't match, though I think GBA and PR should still be fairly compatible with SNES and PS1.>FFV - GBA translation (nothing else)Would be kino, too bad the dude who did it was esl and didn't bother including the noisecross and LeetSketcher fixes of old RPGe oversights.
>>12451024TWUEirdo who started the qol craze where the next guy just piles on more manufactured qol because the original version of his hack was poorly researched and he got called out for it after the Legends of Localization (it's happening again with FFIV btw, better late than never) and thinks all these hackers forking his material somehow makes him the best and is not at all a sign that none of his affiliates think he did a decent job.
>>12451138Why does a text hack need so many revisions?
>>12451138>Legends of LocalizationBased Clyde Mandelin who tl'd Dragon Ball and Steve Simmons who tl'd Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super
>>12451143Every time a rival hack popped up, Rodimus Primal would suddenly release a new version of Ted Woolsey Uncensored Edition with "MAJOR script edits!" What were these edits, you ask? Regressing the script to be more Woolsey-vanilla and less Skyrender-frankenstein. Incrementally, each time another text hack came up that reminded him how bad at this he actually was. The true purpose of these revisions was to keep his hack on top of Romhacking.net's recent hack submissions so it was still the first thing people see over the whatever the new hack was because he has an addictive personality and needs to be the center of attention. He successfully gamed their submission system and remarketed himself.
>>12451175>>12451213>>12451223The real shame about Tomato doing this is that people will spend the next 10 years making "perfect" (read: "the version I PERSONALLY prefer") patches for FFIV instead of taking lesson from his in-depth analyses and using the knowledge to push forward the craft and refine their own abilities.Such is the way of things with these "trivia tidbit" blog posts and video series, though. They pander to retards who weren't ever interested in it to begin with rather than serving as a valuable resource for the people who should actually be looking at them.
The real crime was porting SNES games to GBA. Fuck these stupid compromised hacked up ports with mutilated graphics and audio for existing.
>>12451228>Incrementally, each time another text hack came up that reminded him how bad at this he actually was. The true purpose of these revisions was to keep his hack on top of Romhacking.netI bet you're one of his rival hack uploaders lol, no one else would be this invested
>>12451213Bravo, Namingway.
FF4>SNES (Kaoru Moriyama translation)>GBA (Edit of Kaoru Moriyama translation)>NDS (Tom Slattery's translation)FF5>SNES (RPGe)>PS1 (Sho Endo and Alex Smith are credited as Translation Support)>GBA (Erin M. Ellis. Tom Slattery also worked on the project as a localization support)FF6>SNES/PS1 (Ted Woosley)>GBA/PR (Tom Slattery)
>>12451286I'm thinking the same thing. Whoever this autistic retard is that obsessively posts about this guy every day has to be a rival of his. Why else would you go on and on about it instead of talking about FF6 and Chrono Trigger?
>>12451304The US SNES FFII has so much overlap with JP FFIV Easy Type that it should pretty much be considered a derivative build (likely an in-between build of the original and Easy Type or divergent development). The PS1 translation itself seems to be a bridge between the FFII and GBA retranslation, and the GBA translation was ported and tweaked for PSP and PR, though PR doesn't seem to be modded on top of PSP.Kaoru Moriyama most likely contributed to PS1 Final Fantasy V which had a native speaker work on the canceled EN PC port https://web.archive.org/web/20071025133744fw_/http://www.warmech.net/special/ff5pcinterview/ff5pcinterview.html
>>12451334>The PS1 translation itself seems to be a bridge between the FFII and GBA retranslation, and the GBA translation was ported and tweaked for PSP and PR, though PR doesn't seem to be modded on top of PSP.What are the best and worst overall?
>>12451326Glad to hear I'm not the only one seeing through this bullcrap
>>12451341DS is the best English translation overall BUT the Japanese script for 3D versions was revised and should be considered separate enough from 2D versions. Also, some people don't like the flowery writing. Best 2D version is either PSP (which includes terms and phrases from DS to connect better with TAY) or pixel remaster.
>>12451353>BUT the Japanese script for 3D versions was revised and should be considered separate enough from 2D versions.How different are they? Did anyone compare? They seem the same >>12451294
>>12451354They're not, you can see that the second part of Cecil's dialogue there is altered and doesn't mention dark knights in the DS version. Namingway Edition ported over lines from the DS version without checking to see if the translations align.
>>12451228>Incrementally, each time another text hack came up that reminded him how bad at this he actually was. The true purpose of these revisions was to keep his hack on top of Romhacking.net's recent hack submissions so it was still the first thing people see over the whatever the new hack was because he has an addictive personality and needs to be the center of attention.But Project III is above Woolsey Uncensored.People were excitedfor that one, right?
>>12451367>Rodimus Prime did not perceive the hack that changed Leo's palette as a threat.I changed my mind, I'm thinking this guy is at least a little based.
>>12451367>taking elements from various localization projectsWhy don't they ever provide examples
>>12451367>FlamePurge, the Total Graphics Uncensorship guy, made this.You did one thing and one thing extremely well, why ruin it?
>>12451138>Yoshinori kitase even stated that woolsley wrote kefka betterSource for this bullshit?
>>12451379>Rodimus SUCKS>check out MY hack with skin color correction for a side character!Lol the fucking fandoms are always insane
>>12451350Every single time these threads get made, it's the same BS. You can easily tell that they are rival hackers who want THEIR version over the one that has the most recognition, good or bad. What if they ALL suck? Who cares. And so what if people still like those ROM hacks? The topic was Woolsey's translations for FF6 and Chrono Trigger.
>>12451407NTA but Kefka acting a clown is Woolsey's invention, and Square made it canon in Dissidia.
>>12451506Acting a clown?
>>12451367>No User Reviews!You know what? I'm feeling generous. Here's every English Final Fantasy III/VI text hack I can find on RHDN. I'm sure some of them are review-worthy. Not counting fanfic overhauls that have major differences like adding Leo to the party or swapping Siegfried with Gilgamesh or whatever. That means nothing like T-Edition (Tomato) or Reimagined (DrakeyC) that have unique rescripts. No intermittent hack versions, spoofs, or minor addendums, either.>Final Fantasy VI by RPGONEhttps://www.romhacking.net/translations/697/>Stand Guard by Spooniesthttps://www.romhacking.net/hacks/794/>Ted Woolsey Uncensored Edition by Rodimus Primalhttps://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1386/>Relocalization Project by Dr. Meathttps://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2247/>Retranslated by hairy_henhttps://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4619/>Revised Old Style Edition by SolentEnigmahttps://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5037/>SG-III by Spooniest (seems like a tweaked reboot of Stand Guard?)https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5405/>GBA Text by MoleManhttps://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5864/>Project III by FlamePurgehttps://www.romhacking.net/hacks/7005/Is that enough? Did I miss any?
>>12451609I don't know if it's in that list, but there's one that IIRC was submitted on behalf of the author without their consent and may have been taken down as a result.
>>12451716Seems like Project III. I think that one was always a personal project that was pressured into releasing publicly, so I kind of feel bad making fun of it....There was also one that the Retranslated author harrassed out of releasing because it just so happened to be on the queue at the same time (real pic)..
>>12446787I actually like google's here because it covers a dual meaning of Tinawa? Where is she or are you talking about her?Maybe the preceeding or following lines rules out any implications, I don't remember.
>>12451756Wow, they even got to the site owner of all people. No wonder retranslated was rebranded yet resubmitted as a hack, that was probably the compromise they reached.And it looks like these people are sometimes prone to manic episodes because they kept proding each other. Well that's sad, I think I'll just avoid that site altogether.
>>12451804>dual meaning of Tinawa?Fuck are you smoking? There is none, and there is no ambiguity about what Edgar is asking here since it is 100% abundantly clear that the 奴ら in question are Kefka and his cronies.You're more retarded than people who try to conflate Aerith's 花売り with 売春 shit, looking for things that are not only not there, but are less than there.
>>12451175None of these are quite right. The J2E version includes the 幻獣討伐に (to defeat Phantom Beasts) part, which is missing in all other translations, but all of the translations seem misunderstand (or perhaps simplify) the grammar of ~よいとのこと (you've been permitted to...) as being hortative, rather than permissive, except for the DS version. Obviously, there are text constraints to consider.>>12451213The inclusion of the words "just" or "only" are not present in the original Japanese, and none of the translations capture the trailing きみとは･･･ ((I can't be) with you...). The Namingway fantranslation seems to have borrowed the localized English line wholesale from the DS translation, which incidentally makes it even less accurate than the SNES version. This is because in that version >>12451294 Cecil is actually saying >"Thank you, Rosa... But... Given who I am now...">>12451223J2E wins this one. I don't know what the SNES version was smoking. Perhaps they were trying to guide players more?>>12451310J2E is more respectful to the literality of the line (though changing the exclamation point to a phrase was a bit much), but it's cut off, so I can't see how they handled the second part. The SNES version is good, apart from changing Summoners to Callers, but that might've been a text constraint.
>>12451804There's no dual meaning. When you're asking about someone in this context using は, you're seeking more info on them.Also, none of them translate the line faithfully. The closest would be the GBA, but even then, Locke said, "Those guys really rub me the wrong way."
>>12451367people that edit graphics to match the key art are a special kind of autistic
>>12451891Notice how not one of them ever touches Terra's hair to make her blonde, though. Not that I'm advocating for it, but at least go full retard if you're gonna go that route.
The DS translation uses many words that I've never encountered in my life as a native, educated English speaker. If you're not a native speaker, you might have even more difficulty understanding this translation
>>12452515Don't feel too bad. Dweomer/dwimmer is more of a neologism from D&D. It's something you'd only know from playing fantasy games.
>>12452459A lot of your screenshots are cut off, so it's hard to really compare translations.
>>12452515thanks clyde
Strippers? In Baron?
>>12452583Dragon Ball is mostly Clyde Mandelin's subtitlesAfter Simmons translated DBZ for Funimation, Clyde Mandelin (after recommendation from SImmons himself) was hired to work on the original Dragon Ball series due a heavy work schedule Simmons was dealing with at the time
>>12452515Read old books.
>>12452515>many words that I've never encountered in my life as a native, educated English speakerThen I have some news for you: you aren't educated.
>>12452515what kinda brainlet doesn't know what a dweomer is lmao
>>12446787
I feel like I know more Japanese than Clyde.
>>12452904What don't you like about Clyde?
>>12451506Kefka sounds like a nutcase in Japanese for confusing tense/level all the time in a way you can't translate 1:1 in English, how is that not clownish?
>>12452931He has too much respect for the process, or rather distortion, of localization. His ethos in translation is that if a line reads well in English, then a change in meaning is justified. Ultimately, he's a guy who treats the arbitrary rewrites of localizers as some kind of playbook for how game translation should be done. Also, I have a better command of Japanese than him.
>>12451506He's a literal clown. I don't think Woolsey's rewrites to the script really changed that fact.
>J2e was kicking Nam's ass so much Mato invented new rules mid-streams to bring it down>also said at some point when this is over he's going to release more tools so fans can fix this gameStandings as of #20...
>>12452957Any interesting lines that have been difficult to translate?
>>12452958It's FFIV, what could possibly be difficult? I also doubt a dude who needs to watch Clyde's autistic ass fumble through translations knows anything about Japanese.
>>12452961lol, have you ever played a retro JRPG without kanji?
>>12452963Yeah, obviously. Played through FE1 just recently actually.
>>12452957>also said at some point when this is over he's going to release more tools so fans can fix this gameThe least he could've done was add GBA to the mix like he did FFVI if he's going to pull another "look, all of those hacks used ME as their source, hire me."
Oh, another thing Mato does that's annoying is if a fan translation makes a mistake, he'll write pages on why it's wrong, but if an official localization(tm) makes a mistake, he'll act like it was a choice or just something interesting that he noticed.
>>12452982>if a fan translation makes a mistake, he'll write pages on why it's wrong, but if an official localization(tm) makes a mistake, he'll act like it was a choice or just something interesting that he noticed.Examples?
>>12452970Ah, a noticer.Just the same as how Hillslop recently came out with an article admonishing AI/MTL translations while writing half the article as a humblebragging advertisement for his "achievements" (getting interviews in magazines, etc) and getting lots of patreonbucks, claiming to be a translator while carefully forgetting to say that he's actually not a translator and has a legion of cronies (volunteers) who do all the actual work.
>>12452970>"look, all of those hacks used ME as their source, hire me."That's exactly what's going on, it seems. He suddenly found himself with the free time to redo FFIV.That, or >>12451138 it seems the prevailing mentality with hacks is that it gives you a weird sense of power to be something people source from to make something better? I don't get it. Don't you want to be the one who made something with little room for improvent instead of something others always want to improve?
>FF5 only has one official translation (GBA) and it just worksBased
Anon...,>>12453013>FF5 only has one official translation (GBA)Anon...
>>12447992Yeah, Woolsey had said that he facepalmed a lot when he played the game after its release and encountered a bunch of the dialogue he had to guess the context of while translating because they weren't on his vhses. He usually got the context wrong.
>>12446787Woolsey is the best for FF6. Chrono Trigger on DS is the definitive edition.
>>12453132it's over for woolseybros... and casuals toobut still no one will do a new translation, just regurgitation
>>12453192>woolsey shows humility by admitting when he did things wrongIt's not over for him. This is something that modern day translators, professional and fan alike, could stand to take lesson from him on.The real takeaway, though, is "how do you handle your mistakes?" Do you stand by them and defend them even after you've realized or been shown you were wrong? Or do you accept it and learn from it so that you don't make the same mistake again in the future?
>>12452961I've only watched a couple steams but there were a couple lines between the black magic and white magic study rooms that there was some trouble with.
>>12453013There more I look at fan translations the more I realize they were always pretty farty...>>12453156Interesting take. Usually I hear the opposite, but I never hear a good reason for that other than SNES-players REALLY like Cyanized Frog for some reason.>>12453192Funny RPGOne is still the closest thing to that. No disrespect to Tom Slattery because he mostly did a great job, but what he did by having both scripts side-by-side was the precursor to what later hacks would do.
>>12453573At least people have choice there. BoF1 and 2 is either the worst translations ever or complete fanfic
>>12453014>>12453573RPGe actually did a better job than the PSX release though (actually in some cases better than the GBA version). It'd one of the rare cases where the fan-translation is objectively better than official versions. You can tell Square seethed about it because they seemingly restructured their localization departments afterwards to make sure kids can't can't embarrass them again. The only thing real mistake is the minor one was mentioned by >>12451048
>>12453650>It'd one of the rare cases where the fan-translation is objectively better than official versions.lol. lmao.
>>12447983I want the closest approximation of the original artistic intent I can get without actually having to learn Japanese myself because I am admittedly a lazy fuck. But still, I think that's reasonable.
>>12452989Did the fantranslator render 魔 literally as demon, rather than taking it as a clipping of 魔法, 魔術, etc.? Well, then Clyde's got some words for you:>The ancient war is called the 魔大戦, with the 魔 (ma, definition details) leaning toward the “magic” meaning.>The official translations go with “War of the Magi” as a result, but the fan translation uses the “demon/devil” meaning of 魔 and perplexingly calls it the “Great Demon Wars” instead.>In my experience, amateur translators do tend to translate every 魔 as “demon/devil”, so this didn’t come as a surprise here.>Also, the Japanese script uses two words for “magic”: 魔法 (mahō) and 魔導 (madō). The question of how they’re different came up a lot during the stream, but it was hard to explain them as their nuances aren’t set in stone and can vary from author to author and work to work. But I did some checking around after the stream and it seems that in general mahō refers to magic more in the sense of a natural phenomenon, while this particular madō (there’s more than one – the other is 魔道 and has its own nuances) is more connected to magic in the sense of something that you’d study or seek out.Did the official localizer, Tom Slattery, completely misunderstand the colloquialism of 足を洗う because he's just cheating off of Woolsey, who also didn't understand it? Well, uh, that's just an "oddity" :^)>Oddly, the SNES and GBA lines don’t convey this same question about Locke going legit. Oh, and just for good measure, let's take ANOTHER shot at the fantranslator for misunderstanding something that TWO professionals also misunderstood:>It’s also clear that the fan translator didn’t understand the idiom, but saw the character for “foot” in the line and added something about being quick-footed to fill in the gaps. I remember this feeling and tactic very well from my very earliest amateur days too.
>>12453928nta to be fair if nearly fan-retranslator didn't have the ego to go "i am the Great One who hath fixedeth this broken game" then there'd be no reason to be hard on them.
>>12453931I don't have a problem with criticizing fantranslators, but come on, if you're gonna go hard on them, at least hold the guys who are paid to translate for a living to the same standard.
>>12453938The fan translators were the ones who said they could do a better job than the paid ones.
>>12453951The fantranslators only say that because the paid ones didn't do the job they were PAID to do.
>>12453957The main difference between a paid job and unpaid work is deadlines, but unfortunately, in practice, a lot of fan translators have even less discipline and restraint, and they only pick apart text by people they know won't fight back.
>>12452947In his ff4 streams it seems ai has made him pivot on that point a bit. He seems to care more about exactness now since thats the main thing that differentiates a ai sloplation from a proper hand made one.
>>12453965Deadlines don't prevent you from knowing what common expressions like 足を洗う mean. Tom changed the wording of the line, so he clearly had enough time to review it.
>>12453957Yeah and they failed. If youre going to run your mouth you have to back it up.
>>12453972Everybody failed. Thank you for making my point for me. It's hypocritical to only criticize the fantranslators and not the paid ones.
>>12453454Post them. Let's see. Clyde's probably just failing to understand them himself.
>>12453973Not really
>>12454112Okay, Clyde.
>>12452949He's a flamboyant nobleman.
>>12454120I got the reference I dont care.
>>12454135It's okay, no one cares about your opinion in 2026
>>12454127HE'S GOT CLOWN MAKEUP AND RAINBOW CLOTHES
>>12454150Say that after 10 more ff4 romhacks come out based on my 3am streams.
>>12454167Oh, so you're the reason the fan translations suck so bad.
Just fuck already.
Clydemato finding out the hard way that not everyone likes his translations.
>>12454219The problem with those is that none of them are really translations since none of them are made by translators.
>>12454413Just like Mother 3.
>>12447974I like the added flare to Frog in the original script better.
>>12454426kek I hope if Nintendo ever translates Mother 3 themselves they burn everything about the fan-translation to the ground and do everything fresh, the meltdown of autists screeching "not MY Fassad!" would be a thing of legend.
>>12454426Good joke. Now lets see your translations.
>>12454426lol rekt
>>12454452Sorry, my name is Clyde Mandelin, and I only criticize games that I have no intention of translating myself ;)
>>12454629smart
>>12454447It would be the first time in history that a Treehouse localization would be more accurate than a fan one.
I spent all day playing Final Fantasy 3 for the SNES. I enjoyed it like I did when it first came out.
>>12452961>>12452965Mtl typically struggles really bad with kana-only text.
>>12454410Probably wound up losing some of his audience's blind faith when he wound up defending the bad "don't criticize us localizers!" joke in Rhapsody as a reasonable way to translate the original statement.
>>12454757This ain't 2010, gramps. Modern LLMs can handle kana-only text with near-perfect results.
>>12454770Surely he must see the hypocrisy in defending shit like that while simultaneously crapping on fantranslations.
>>12454779It all comes down to a simple non-argument that doesn't advance localization discourse:>"Thing I PERSONALLY like: GOOD">"Thing I personally DON'T like: BAD"
>>12454797I feel if that were strictly true, he'd join all the other rosetinted nostalgianerds who made the chorus of "I like the FFIII I grew up with but it needs a fix cuz Woolsey sucks and no I'm not talking Slattery since I didn't grow up on FFVIA and he made fun of us" hacks.
>>12454807NTA, but I think he feels as though he's above it all. Like, he *could* make the perfect translation if he wanted, but he just doesn't feel like it. Honestly, his gimmick was that he knew a little bit of Japanese in an era when MTL wasn't that reliable, thus giving him an air of authority. Now LLMs outpace even most professionals, so he's gotta move the goalpost to "well, I could've worded it better!1!1!!"
>>12453928>Did the official localizer, Tom Slattery, completely misunderstand the colloquialism of 足を洗う because he's just cheating off of Woolsey, who also didn't understand it? Well, uh, that's just an "oddity" :^)thank open source for JMdict and its pile of idioms:{to quit (a shady business)}{to wash one's hands of}{to cut one's ties with}{to turn over a new leaf}{to go straight}{to wash one's feet}But still, even if they went full dictionary literal and came up with "by the way, have you washed your feet of thievery?" surely anyone whose first language is english would have realised change the foot to a hand and you've got a perfectly acceptable translation?
>>12454871It's a pretty impressive error, both because of how common the expression is, how close it is to the English one, and how two different translators over a decade apart couldn't catch it. The only part of that sentence Ted seemed to understand was the "being a thief" bit and that it was a question towards Locke. Tim probably looked it over, maybe even tried to search it in his digital dictionary without spelling 洗う in kanji form, got nothing, and then messed with the words a little just to say he did something.I think what I'm most angry at in all of this is how Mato didn't even attempt to provide an explanation for how this mistake could've occurred twice, yet he was just fine laying into some shitty fan translation for essentially committing the same sin as the official guys.
>>12454154Sure thing buddy...
>>12454918>I think what I'm most angry at in all of thisSo which fan translator are you? Taking this so personally.
>>12454918It doesn't strike me as an error at all.The question comes off as more of>"You still in the robbing game these days?"Sort of back-handed non-question rather than one asking whether Locke has reformed. He knows the answer before Locke responds.tl;dr - Woolsey was right in his interpretation.
>>12454925Fan translator? You mean like Mato?>>12454927No, you changed the wording to make his interpretation plausible. He wrote>How goes being a thief?in Japanese he says the opposite>Have you stopped being a thief?tl;dr - you're about as literate as Woolsey
>>12453970That's ironic considering how inexact localizations are.
>>12454923delusional
>>12454957Yes. Which one of these fan translators are you?
>>12454965No need to be defensive, Clyde.
>>12454970Who is your number 1 enemy? Clyde, Mato, or Rodimus?
>>124549721. Clyde2. Mato3. MandelinIn that order
>itt brianlets puzzled by other brainlets being bad a japanese while they themself are bad a japanese>"how could this have happened???"real mystery there, champ
Hello, I was a small child when I first played FF6 on the SNES in the mid 90s. And I can say with certainty that I don't like Ted Woolsey's translation very much. But it's not the sheer accuracy that bothers me. It's that a bunch of the characters act similarly inconsistent.Would Sabin really say "Confound it all"?
>>12455126>brianlets The smart person of the thread, ladies and gentlemen.
it's quite simple. someone who can't readily understand expressions like 足を洗う、足が出る、足が遠くなる, the different meanings of 手を握る or what 汗を握る is, needs a native speaker by their side. otherwise there's not going to be much a "translation" to speak of
>>12455201Tom Slattery on suicide watch.
>>12455195>minor typing error.gif
>>12455301:^)
>>12454871...OH, that line makes SO much more sense now: the old man recognizes him and seems a little surprised that the Returners sent him given his reputation, and he's incredulous about it, not asking what's up. This is almost on the level of Setzer's 'business has gone up in smoke' idiom (paraphrasing) except you're telling me there's tens of hacks and no one caught it?>>12455201Should've done what the EarthBound guys did and get native speakers and bilinguals on speed-dial. Heck, Square even allowed it for their other, more competently-translated games...
>>12455357>you're telling me there's tens of hacks and no one caught it?I'm assuming so since ROSE didn't. They had "kWhazit, Tomato, Lina Darkstar, et al." and are prided as being one of the most 'advanced' ones.Typo in the first line btw. Again.
>>12455357>and no one caught it?these people obviously don't speak the language well. every japanese adult knows that expression. if this were about ESLs it would be comparable to not understanding what "to make ends meet" or "to make do" mean even though one knows each of the comprising words.
>>12455469>these people obviously don't speak the language well.I don't think they speak any language very well to be frank, they tend to simplify idioms and colloquialisms they obviously had trouble with as a shortbus kid, even if the meaning is near-1:1 to the intention.
>>12454030https://youtu.be/yW5b4YgKbWU?t=8239This is the only one i'll bother posting. Watch the streams yourself if you want more tomato sucks fodder.
>>12455478>I don't think they speak any language very welli can't speak to that but there are numerous cases of people translating j > e with neither one of them being their first language and them not being exactly proficient in either one of them - at least from a professional point of view. but that is precisely the point, isn't it? they're doing it for free. i'm sure they're trying to best of their abilities and if they're upfront about it then who can blame them when the result isn't perfect.
>>12455535>What's trying to be useful? Is it the magic or the people?It's obviously the magic, retard. Can't you see the big magic tomes in front of them? Why the hell would they be talking about making "themselves" useful in combat? Difficult lines my ass. He's even unsure of whether it's 実戦 or 実践. Notice how he's starting to blame everything on his tiredness, even when he's got like 3 fucking translations open at the same time.It's also funny watching him try to hover dict 手に負えない after he realizes he can't remember it, but the kana is so spaced out that nothing shows up (lel)Yeah, I'm not watching the rest. Back to your Genki textbooks, Clyde.
>>12455621How would you translate the line?
>>12455630Nothing fancy. I'd stick to the literal meaning but disambiguate the subject:>We're in the middle of researching so that our spells are effective in combat ASAP
>>12455646They don't mention spells. I'm deducting a point from you :^)
>>12455648kek if only he were that strict with the localizers he buttkisses so much
https://youtu.be/yW5b4YgKbWU?t=8820who did it best?
>>12455653It's pretty funny watching him fail to explain what trigrade conjugations are. Obviously, Namingway handled it the best. The other two didn't even try.
>>12455621>>12455646Wow, the one translated by the native speaker is the correct one, who knew.>>12451138>Hairy_hen's work went for a more direct from Japanese approach, which included removing the famous lines even found in the GBA script...Sounds like an accidental endorsement for the only person who actually tried and wasn't nostalgia-blind, lol.>>12451447Yeah from my brief interaction with them in DMs a lot of them are catty twoface knowitalls who shittalk each other behind their back.Also here, once, I forgot what the recommendation was, but I asked in what world would playing a hack that uses FFIIUS as its base could ever be preferable to playing one based on FFIVJP, which doesn't need a herculean effort to restore. The response I got was dismissive as if it should be plainly obvious to anyone, but I wasn't impressed by that answer. Clearly it was a weirdly defensive deflection like I struck a nerve. Was probably either the hacker who made it or someone who got oddly attached to it. It's funny because now Tomato's highlighting similar problems in his streams, that Namingway Edition has space limitations due to using FFIIUS.
>>12454447the thing I wonder about with that would be like... what alternatives would you have for some of the character names, mainly characters like Kumatora, for example. Kumatora remain Kumatora, or would her name be translated to Beartiger. Nintendo's already used terminology that'd be done already by the fan translation. Unless names like that wouldn't be changed, and I'm a fucking dumbass
>>12455701They should follow the Transmato approach for all the names, not just Fassad. Kumatora should be Ligress, Hinawa should Fusal, etc.
>>12455701I remember in middle of making the fan-translation, they found out Super Smash Bros. Brawl was coming out with strangely a LOT of Mother 3 spoilers, so they halted things for a bit to both see if any official-release announcements were happening and to see what translations would be used in stickers and trophies. At that point they considered changing Hinawa and Kumatora like they changed Yokuba to Fassad, but those names remained intact. (There were also "Tazumili" and "Klaus" but those names were corrected to Tazmily and Claus by the PAL version; they oddly overlooked Porky Statue and New Year's Eve in favor of King Statue and New Year's Eve Bomb.) I think for the purposes of a fan-translation it was probably the right idea to keep things consistent, but who knows if an official translation would decide to throw out old transliterations like was done to Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Stafy, etc. They even conjured up the title EarthBound Beginnings for the eventual release of the original game when Smash had already consistently been calling it Mother.
>>12455753This basically proves that Tomato only makes changes to names if he thinks he can get away with it.
>>12455761it's over for tomatosisters...not like this...not... like this
>>12455753Klaus with a K is obviously incorrect since Lucas and Claus are anagrams of each other.
>>12455806Good catch.
>>12454961>posts Dissidia artworkAnon...
>>12455830bait was more believable back in the day
>>12455849If you reply or acknowledge bait in any way, it means you fell for it and the baiter won.
>>12455873This is what shitposters actually believe
>>12455761wtf
>>12455830GETFUCKED
>>12455902Massive Mato L bro can't even do his research, he's too busy making pointless final fantasy tools so he can display all 1000 fan translations at once
>>12455902>Personality and characteristicsSo did they just entirely make the 'troublesome nickname' part up?
>>12455910Mato also assumes his audience is too retarded to tell the difference between a character saying a word incorrectly, and a typo.One of the pigmask dudes fumbles a word due to nerves, and that's that.In the English release, there's an entirely new line added in to "clarify" that it's not a typo. Something that the Japanese didn't need.
>>12455927
>>12455927>>12455929Wow, Tomato is a true localizer. Over-explaining lines that quite literally need no explanation. And why? Because he's afraid people like me are going to criticize him for typos.That's so sad.
>>12455929There's no mention of always making mistakes. Gonna have to deduct a point from FAN (TRANSMATO) :^)
>>12455930I'm reminded of Kid Icarus Uprising making a whole fucking thing out of explaining the NES game's English instruction making a typo 25 years prior.
>>12447992Yeah and sometimes the dialogue in the ROM is completely mixed too so there can be an unrelated line of dialogue mixed with dialogue from a specific area. I suppose translators used very vague translations on purpose if they weren't sure about the context.
>>12446809I regret learning english because I can't listen to songs anymore.Playing vidya in language you don't understand is a blessing.
>>12455927>>12455929I don't see anything wrong with this specifically because it's a fan translation, they'd get a million reports about the typo for years they made if they didn't make it more obvious and my own first instinct would be that it was their own mistake too if it was the only script I'd read. No one is playing a fan translation unless they don't know Japanese, so it's not like they'd be aware of the original line or why いたましした is a verbal hiccup. Both localizations and fan translations alike are filled to the brim with typos and minor mistakes to begin with.
>>12455993>I don't see anything wrong with thist.tomato
>>12451609A new one appeared out of the blue last month by a guy who's had enough of the little RHDN Woolsey rewriters' corner's bullshit, sadly it's not in hack-form and I imagine the space issues would be a nightmare as a SNES/GBA ROM, but there are instructions for porting to Pixel Remaster and others.https://varishangout.com/index.php?threads/final-fantasy-vi-full-delocalized-and-retranslated-script-documentation.3064/Don't get too excited though since despite his autistic deepdives and disappointment of everyone who failed this idea he's still a DeepL newfag, but I guess he's the best at SkyRender 2.0 that we've got. Hail Tama-chan's autism.
>>12447496>"Cefca cult" lineI was going to post that it's my favorite line in any FF game
>>12455906Is literally not a clown, but I can see how one might think that without seeing all the other characters art also having shock white faces and being dressed in stripes and baubles.
>>12456056Um, sweaty, Sakaguchi literally called him a clown https://mega64.com/blog/mega64-shares-sad-sakaguchi-storyGet Rekt
>>12456061>unironically thinks it's Sakaguchi talking about the game and not the m64 guys telling a joke.
If the mother 3 translation is so bad why hasn't anyone else made one? Instead we have people like >>12454447 hoping the fucking treehouse does one. What the fuck?
If the Final Fantasy VI translation is so bad, why hasn't anyone else made one-oh wait, they have
>>12456136I recall there was a series of streams by a professional Japanese translator who was very excited to dig in to the Mother 3 fan translation, but by the end you can tell he was just drained and done by how much was off even though he tried to be nice about it. You have to keep in mind that hacking the game in English is itself a minor miracle as the game practically runs on spaghetti-code. Also, no one wants to make another fan translation when it's not only clear that the original fan translation failed in their attempts to go legit (trying to use NoA contacts, putting up the fan translation as something they can take for free) but they were probably being overbearing and offputting to Nintendo.
>>12456158Interesting. Do you have a link to the streams? Also >Also, no one wants to make another fan translation when it's not only clear that the original fan translation failed in their attempts to go legit (trying to use NoA contacts, putting up the fan translation as something they can take for free) but they were probably being overbearing and offputting to Nintendo.Why would that stop anyone from making another translation? Who cares about whatever nonsensical dreams tomato had when he started on it decades ago.
Damn, Tomato, no one wants to touch your stinky translation. How does that make you feel, you wannabe localizer?
>>12456158What does any of that have to do with not making another effort?If the work with text insertion is done already, why not take that aspect and go to work on setting the record straight with a new translation? NoA obviously isn't going to do jack shit with the game and never was. The people behind the original Mother 3 patch are fucking morons.Granted judging by this thread the only thing people capable of competent translations want to do is weigh in on how bad of a job everyone else is doing rather than put their money where their mouth is.
>the only thing people capable of competent translations want to do is weigh in on how bad of a job everyone else is doing rather than put their money where their mouth is.Yo, Clyde, he's calling you out with this one. You gonna take that?
>>12454923>>12454961This interview explains the discrepancy between the normal looking Kefka sprite and Amano's clownier art (i.e. Amano came in later).
>>12455902I will cut a little slack here, just a bit, since it says nobody knew that "Grandpa Syd" bit, and a lot of stuff about EB64, in terms of stuff like the MOTHER 3 Times in the magazines hadn't really been dumped and scoured in English for quite a while. The fan translation was back in, what, 2008-2009? I'm pretty sure we just didn't have a lot of this stuff archived or anything. So while I won't defend Scamp, I can at least understand why he wasn't called "Grandpa Syd" or anything. Coulda at least just called him "Elder," but oh well. It is what it is
>>12456212>Granted judging by this thread the only thing people capable of competent translations want to do is weigh in on how bad of a job everyone else is doing rather than put their money where their mouth is.Every thread is full of dekinais who never have and never will translate anything. We've had active romhack threads for years and yet /vr/ has never produced a single translation. All we have are a bunch of faggots who think they know japanese like they're the sons of fucking basil hall chamberlain and they will criticize every official and non official translation of every game ever in every thread about them and yet after that retreat to wanking it to their N5 tier vns. If /vr/ ever produces a translation of anything I'll eat my fucking hat. and then laugh as it's torn part in these threads just like every other
>>12456420>>12450395無駄。
Woosley's translations are undeniably among the very best in their period. You have got to remember that back then you had:Nintendo: Marketing suits actively discouraged translators from translating accurately rather than dumbing things down to the lowest denominator even if it takes rewrites. European translators were discouraged from learning Japanese. Proficiency in Japanese wasn't seen as important as creative writing, so even if a competent translation happened at some time throughout the process it wouldn't necessarily reach the audience.Konami: Would frequently remove tons of text to cut costs, or rewrite the story for no reason (random bible quotes? family members? injecting personal political opinions or causes whenever possible like some quote generator? you have Snatcher, Metal Gear, and even a Policenauts localization that was cancelled over the lip syncing with the longer and wildly different dubs sabotaging the entire project, and it almost happened with MGS 1 Integral JP and Kojima had to retranslate the English script back in Japanese with corrections to be usable.) Jaleco: Actively takes the piss of whatever they are translating. You have Totally Rad where the English version is a parody, and Ignition Factor which outright accuses the Japanese developers of plagiarizing American B-movies.Renovation: Barely understandable English. Enix: The excellent DQ translation aside (which puts to shame what they shat out in the modern era) their translations are very subpar. Slapstick SNES is horrible in English at times, especially the later less playtested parts of the story where the translation is so literal they didn't even compensate for the ellipsis (omitted subjects in Japanese), resulting in even the save prompt being cryptic.
Working Designs: Actively malicious and with their personal agendas to sell guidebooks and compete with rentals, so they sabotage the existing translations. For Shining Wisdom they even removed mentions to the Shining series because of beef with Sega and promoted a Sony game instead. Then they got Sony's first party Alundra rejected from submission over raunchy jokes they added, and which Psygnosis (Sony-owned EU publisher) went out of their way to clean out.Woosley: Just the right amount of respect and detachment from the material, and competent enough to adapt it in a reasonable delay to a translation that sounds natural without compromising much on quality. He was still bound by censorship guidelines, technical length constraints (which might have been a welcome restraint on any temptations), unreasonable deadlines (so very few reviews and a lacking quality check process) and of course his human failings and occasional lack of understanding of the source material (especially apparent in the Super Mario RPG taunts full of pop culture trivia, or even the Mario monster terminology, which were NOT researched. his Xenosaga successor would have been more diligent with such research.)Woosley himself properly judges his work as lacking, and would have done better given better circumstances, in his words.The issue is that these very failings are considered QUALITIES by modern localizers.His tactics are not considered a means to an end, but an end in themselves, and it ends up being a masturbatory shitshow where some failed writer takes a dump on his better's work to "elevate" that foreign work from mediocrity, but actually it's elevating his own mediocrity and lines even a Borderlands writer would be too ashamed to use.Similarly, those successes are considered MISTAKES by the purist fanbase that wants to experience the original.So these reactionaries fail to appreciate an adaptation that's pleasant to read and condemn "any Woosley-style done right" translations.
>>12456340Amano only came "technically" later. His designs for Kefka was created during the development of the game, and in turn, influenced aspects of the spritework:>In his original concept art, which has been used as the basis for his spin-off appearances, Kefka wears robes with an erratic mix of colors and patterns.>One such art was used for the basis of Kefka's sprite as a boss in Final Fantasy VI and has influenced his design in some spin-off appearances.
>>12449501>Not saying that's necessarily what happened hereIt's not, Woolsey has said he got no help from anyone at Square since they didn't give a shit about the quality of the translation and told him he was dumb for caring about accuracy in a childrens' toy.
>>12456891He was only the sole translator credited on Final Fantasy III/VI, and it shows; for just about every other game translation, he had a team to give him support.
>>12456891>and told him he was dumb for caring about accuracy in a childrens' toy.Wff, based Square?
>>12456891>source: my ass
>>12452957He changed his mind because Namingway was THAT indefensible, Rest in Rodimus.
>>12456506>Enix: The excellent DQ translation asideThe NES games, yes, and possibly even the GBC games given the text limits involved, but DQ7 was a mess.
>>12457443That's with the pop-culture rule still in effect btw, he only changed his dev-room rule. J2E would be way above 600 if that one WorkingDesigns-wannabe wasn't on the team. Fyi, Shortrod is obviously trying not to panic over at the youtube comments...>>12454447>>12456136>If the mother 3 translation is so badIt really isn't, no one wants to do anything better because in translators' minds that would be it, there goes the last ray of hope that an officially produced one could be any better. Tomato himself has said he's resisted the urge to go back and retranslate a lot of lines he thought he could do better now. Of course, if you were crafty about it, you could say "Tomato models himself after Lindblom; this retranslation goes for more of a Sandhop style."
What I want to know is where the Theodor = Golbez shit came from that is in a couple of fan "relocalizations". Was that in the DS remake, or did it come out of someone's butthole?
>>12457694Theodor is actual canon added in the DS remake.
>>12457694The 3D version added a brand-new expanded flashback that contradicts some of the old guidebooks where Golbez relates their backstory to Cecil (at a silly, inopportune moment BTW, where the Giant of Babil is on the brink of collapse). That's where Theodor comes from. What NE failed is how clumsy it incorporated it since it doesn't exist in 2D versions. So now in NE, the moment where Cecil finally acknowledges Golbez as brother is ruined.
>>12457672>resisted the urge to go back and retranslate a lot of lines he thought he could do better now.This is always how it goes no matter what you work on.I have several completed game translations behind me and I am still haunted by certain choices I made in certain games, especially ones before I really had a "process" in place for doing high quality work.Your abilities in both translation and in writing are a constantly moving target, and what you think is a job well done today will assuredly make you wince in pain when you see it a year from now. That's why I think it's important to either take time off from a script to put some distance between you and it since it's easy to become a bit noseblind to it, and if it stinks, you'll really notice it when you come back to it later on. Or, to have a second translator and possibly an editor working with you to keep everyone honest and offer fresh perspectives to help avoid these issues.And most importantly, the ability to look at work you've done through the same critical lens as reviewing work you know is going to be shit to the extent you regard it with some contempt. The me of today is not a fan of the me of yesteryear, as I'm sure the me of next year will not be a fan of the me of this year.
>>12456508the other problem with woolsley is extremely dated pop culture references like the Beavis and Butthead joke in FFVI. Less egregious is the Star Wars reference, at least that is a reference to something timeless, still doesn't belong in the script unless the original had a Japanese pop culture joke when Celes first met Locke, then I could see the argument for including it.
>>12457747The Star Wars reference was there.https://ffdic.wikiwiki.jp/%E3%82%BB%E3%83%AA%E3%83%95/%E3%80%90%E5%85%B5%E5%A3%AB%E3%81%AB%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%81%AF%E3%81%9A%E3%81%84%E3%81%B6%E3%82%93%E8%83%8C%E3%81%8C%E4%BD%8E%E3%81%84%E3%82%8F%E3%81%AD%E3%80%91I had no idea the burners' lines were a Beavis and Butt-Head reference, but if you're going to have to self-censor anyway then might as well have some fun with it inb4 perked 'em right up!
>>12457747The Star Wars references are canon throughout most of FF, hence Biggs and Wedge.Also, anon linked the article wrong. Should be: https://wikiwiki.jp/ffdic/セリフ/【兵士にしてはずいぶん背が低いわね】
>>12457747>Beavis and ButtheadI didn't even notice that reference, so he was doing something right there at least.His level of restraint is a night and day difference from how FFV Advance turned out (a clean up of an unfinished SNES script with pirate-speak Faris and Y-burn, but filled with 1337 and movieslop jokes so that fans don't notice how bad the base translation is... err, how generic the plot is without those "jokes" punching it up!) or whatever the hell happened with Konami USA scripts in the mid nineties that culminated with their localizers being openly hostile to the writers in front of game journalists which is totally normal behavior sure.>Star WarsSame but I thought you meant the Star Wars references from FF9 because that one is disgusting and heinous to the point I wonder if FF7's translation wasn't the BETTER one out of the three mainline FF games on PS1. The translator gave up localizing most of the main protagonist's character arc, even crucial lines used in plot summaries of the game in Japanese and English marketing materials, and the final boss is just a random Star Wars quotes generator and it wouldn't be out of the question that the translator just didn't care at all and said if Woosley did it then why not me.
>>12457721I wish more people had that mindset as it pertains to translations, re-translations, and the like. I also don't get the HARD on for crapping on it this much unless the people on this board are just rivals who think everything is a competition. These games are played by fans the world over and they take whatever version they like best. Whether or not its a fan translation or an official work. Most people are not going to play a game that isn't in their native language.
>>12457710That's also in Project II, and by extension, FFIV Ultima. So you should aim all your hatred for that faggot Flame Purge and his shitty projects, and all who worked with him.
>>12457747You're a fucking autistic retard. The Star Wars references were IN the Japanese script. "They don't belong" because YOU don't like pop culture references.
>>12457443This is once again no longer even ABOUT Woolsey in regards to Final Fantasy VI or Chrono Trigger. Instead its full of shit for brains as it devolves into garbage of other fan retranslations for other games. I'm convinced this board is just full of idiots.
>>12455678Yeah, I think you just outed yourself, hairy_hen. No one can be THIS obsessed about this unless it was a rival.
>some rando transformers megafan lives rent-free in the minds of terminally pnline snes jarpig players
>>12458263Im not talking about "vicks" (supposed to be biggs) and wedge but the " short for a stormtrooper" line. And beavis and fucking butthead sure wasn't in the original
>>12458283>but the " short for a stormtrooper" line.Already proven to be part of the original Japanese script: >>12457825
>>12458278I'm surprised Rodimus is so invested in translations when he himself can't speak a lick of Japanese lol
>>12458291I'm surprised you proved the post you responded to right. Terminally online SNES JRPG players has a rando Transformers megafan living rent free in their head.
>>12458286What does the english line say?
>>12458294Oof, did I strike a nerve there, Rodimus? Maybe you should leave the translating to people who actually speak the language.
>>12455678>I asked in what world would playing a hack that uses FFIIUS as its base could ever be preferable to playing one based on FFIVJP, which doesn't need a herculean effort to restore. The response I got was dismissive as if it should be plainly obvious to anyone,Well yeah, it's obvious to anyone with a functioning brain idiot, duh. Geez, how can you not know, I mean wow, whadda maroon!
>>12458310Wouldn't that be great if he was on this board? Maybe you can tell him yourself? Wow. You really are obsessed!
>>12449268Woolsey wins here.
>>12458343True, but only because the writing level of every other one is so low.
most normalfags just play the old version because its the classic one and move onif you want to play the original intended version learn japanese or gtfoso eitiher accept the work of the best a professional translator can do or read japanese.
>>12458593Seems more like it was just a miracle that the censorship forced him to write that line in a way that sounded more interesting rather than more stupid or boring like usual.
>>12458603it sounds very literary and it wouldn't be surprising to hear it straight from a good movie the use of non-existence is also very encompassing and mysterious in a way "Death" isn't. It's nuts how he nailed it.That's why I'm always going to stick with his versions, dude just knew how to write.
>fan-translationyou did not play the game>localizationyou did not play the game>original but you're not japaneseyou did not play the gamebut by all means, keep coping and seething ITT, the schadenfreude is off the charts
>>12458603Nintendo censorship has always been kino
>>12458673You're acting like Japanese can't be understood just because every fantranslator happens to suck ass at it.
>>12458609>>12458679bait used to be good
>>12449298>>12449321It's a callback to some earlier lines.
>>12459831Is it really a good callback if the localizer had to make it up?
>>12449268>Zebu destroy to make a world of death!Who the fuck is Zebu and what the fuck is his problem?
>>12459885Tomato used to do this thing where he'd run all the dialogue through Google Translate to try and make some retarded point about how literal translation doesn't work.Gee, I wonder why he never wants to include them anymore...
>>12446787Really bad. Woolsey was the type to translate something pooryl and then put a joke about the bad translation in the game. Making it even worse. And not even in a way a honest way, the fucker deflects. Not the energy you want in your game translations.
>>12459905>pooryl
>>12459905Who even was involved Rhapsody? I want to know who was responsible for such a stupid joke. Actually, it probably wasn't even a joke. I bet that's the actual translator's note that was meant to be overwritten with a real line.
>>12459931Do people still say grammar nazi?
>>12460306They just scream ESL and brown now, especially during arguments and if the guy they're arguing with forgot the ' in you're
>>12446787They're good.
>>12460360As translations? No, they're very inaccurate.
ITT: idiots crying about mistranslations about media written and designed for fucking CHILDRENif you wanna cry about translation problems try reading Cervantes, Neruda or Tolstoy in english, you ignorant fucks>waaaaah but my deep meaning in my SUPER NINTENDO GAMElmao fucking inmature losers
>>12460561Accuracy isn't important.
>>12460569If it's babyshit for children then it should've been easy to translate correctly, yet somehow said babyshit was too tough for the professionals.
>>12460570If it isn't accurate, then it isn't much of a translation.
>>12460571it wasnt hard because it was deep, it was hard because it was the mid 90's, and videogame companies didnt gave a fuck about wasting money on an actual japanese-english translator, and instead just hired the cheapest fucks they could find to just adapt the script the quickest and cheapest possibleis not that complicated to understand
>>12460576What's their excuse for the inaccurate garbage they put out nowadays? They're still translating lines wrong.
>>12446787The only thing I didn't like about the CT translation was removal of all the alcohol references. Some make sense (Ayla-Crono drinking contest), but adults should be drinking booze. Changing it to "soda" completely ruins the Toma grave scene.
>>12460574It also needs to be entertaining.
>>12460584That's fine. A translation can be both.
>>12460579because they DONT CARE. Its a fucking videogame. Its not deep, its not the fucking bible. As long the general idea of the plot is preserved, its cheap to translate and doesnt delay the launch of the game overseas, they will keep translating things wrong.
>>12460584The two aren't mutually opposed, so long as the original Japanese was also trying to be entertaining.
>>12460576There were basic japanese errors in old games. You have to remember japanese is a language, not every line is created equal. Baby game or Adult game doesn't really matter, there's going to be hard stuff and easy stuff to translate.>>12460584No it needs to match the scene. If a scene were boring, whether on purpose or not, you'd want to maintain that.
>>12460590>If a scene were boring, whether on purpose or not, you'd want to maintain that.Really?
>>12460586Well, before you said it was because it was the 90s and now you're telling me it's just out of greed and apathy, but your real point is that game's aren't worthy of a half-decent translation. For the popularity they garner and the money they make, I'm gonna have to disagree.
>>12460594because you propose that translations nowadays are as bad as they were in the mid 90's. Which is completely and absolute false.90's translations are so comically bad in general, they couldnt even get the fucking english gramatical translations right.Nowadays the errors are mostly the translatorns changing the context of the lines just to simplify, avoid censorship or just to insert western references.
>>12460603>they couldnt even get the fucking english gramatical translations rightSo nothing changed.
>>12460603>to simplify, avoid censorship or just to insert western references.Yeah, feel free tell me where in this image is the simplification, censorship avoidance, or inserted Western reference.
>>12460587That's kind of an issue, though. A lot of Japanese text in vidya is pretty derivative, as in the kind of thing you'd normally read in typical shonen manga.
>>12460676Put the fries in the bag. We're torturing AI now to translate our sloppa
>>12460760AI is surprisingly more honest.
These series of comparisons are a bless since it exposed a lot of those hack with their "definitive" version of the game. Turns out they don't know jackshit about translation, used a lot of Google Translate, didn't understand the context of the scenes (like calling the generals Shogun because it's the original japanese, or the infamous Kefuka/Cefca) and butchered a lot of the text to add their own flavor. It's fucking hilarious. You would think that this ego fueled shit was a thing from the past, but then you had these fags still doing their "own thing" instead of just copy-pasteing the GBA script to the SNES version like in these links >>12446991 As for the translations itself, Woolsey did a serviceable job. Our Kefka version is more alive (some lines are even referenced in the GBA version) and you can grasp the general story with ease. The problem comes when you look too deep in some characters lore and there are weird text said by NPCs here and there.
>>12460876It's funny. Fixing Woolsey's script would be trivial, but it requires not being an idiot at Japanese and not always looking to Woolsey for his opinion on what the text means. Tomato's also an idiot because he gets just as confused at stupid shit that fantranslators get confused at, like how try translate 三段活用 or whether the subject in a subordinate clause is "we" or "it." Things that should be obvious, but these people need to consult 50 different lore books 10 different versions of the game just to come up with one (often incorrect) translation.
>>12460902>but it requires not being an idiot at Japanese and not always looking to Woolsey for his opinion on what the text means.This is what kills any retranslation for me>ok you're going to translate it right this time?>"What no, we're keeping this out of place Woolseyism anyway">but why
>>12460916Because they're afraid to be wrong. Woolsey didn't have that luxury when he was coming up with the script, so he had to be the one making the big decisions. These guys just hide behind the work of others to avoid catching flack if they misunderstood something. In a sense, the people cheating off of Tomato's comparison images are really just doing the same thing.>Tomato said it meant this>Well, that line was in the DS script>Future titles call it that>Some magazine romanized it like that>That's a well-known line/Woolseyismetc. etc.
>>12460928At some point one should consider that later official translations are already good enough.
>>12460876>copy-pasteing the GBA script to the SNES versionYou can do that, but you still should account for any differences that the original version had with rereleases, otherwise you'll end up with something like a namingway where you inject a ton of nonexistent lines under the guise of 'definitive'. Chaos Rush did this correctly for the NES games I think, porting things over and then retranslating text that's different. I don't know why this is hard for the SNES games......Then again, all one needs to do is take one look at some of the OTHER popular hacks to understand who these hacks are for...
>>12460956That would require them to actually read the Japanese they're claiming to be able translate. It doesn't exactly take a genius to see that 「だが…、今の僕は…」 is NOT the same as 「だが、僕は暗黒騎士。 君とは…」 though I doubt they're even aware just what the trailing sentence would even be if he were to complete it.
>>12460876>These series of comparisons are a bless since it exposed a lot of those hack with their "definitive" version of the game.Why didn't people who take this shit seriously do this more often instead of going off the vibes of whatever "sounds natural"?
>>12461975Ultimately, I think that one must simply accept that video game translation and localization is as much adaptation as it is interpretation.People ridicule the one interview about Skies of Arcadia and the approach taken to writing individual scenes in that game, but it is simply one of many possible approaches. Obviously keeping the original message intact should always be the goal, but it is the nature of the JA-EN pair that certain ways of speaking and writing aren't necessarily compatible with the other and thus lend themselves to "throwing out" the to-the-letter translation in favor of something that captures the same intention and takes full advantage of the things each language is good at.This becomes more evident once you've spent enough time reworking song lyrics or doing dub scripts which impose sometimes impossible constraints with regard to syllables, timing, even "range" of acting emotion. And moreover, it becomes abundantly clear the more time you spend with both languages in the pair, how much you read/watch/listen, and how often you stop to think about how you'd approach these kinds of problems if you're just casually watching a show or something.
>>12462009The Skies of Arcadia localization wasn't an "approach" to translation. It very clearly was not a translation. The words, sentiment, intent, everything was thrown out in favor of what the localizer wanted them to say. This wasn't done because of a constraint, like a syllable count, textbox length, or hard-to-convey sentiment. It was done because they elected not to translate.While maintaining faithfulness (i.e., how they chose to say it) and transparency (i.e., what they meant to say) is always a balancing act, it should be important to understand that the changes you're seeing talked about have nothing to do with said balance. In every case, the translator chose not to translate and instead rewrite.
>>12462052Where did I say that Skies of Arcadia was done in its way due to constraints?All I meant by that is, operating under those constraints can be a good exercise in identifying what truly needs to be said and finding quality ways to render them.Your pedantic and frankly sophomoric ways of thinking about translation and localization as a craft are precisely why no one would want to waste a second reading whatever sewage you managed to churn out if you in all your pomp and laziness made your own hack of, say, Final Fantasy 4 or 6.
>>12462060Thank you, that's exactly my point. There was no constraint. They changed it just to change it.
>>12462065Then go "fix" it. There are text editing tools available for Skies of Arcadia. Get cracking, chud.
>>12463024He would have to hack the jap version since a bunch of other things were censored/changed besides just text.
>>12463078Like that stopped every other tough-guy script-kiddie from making their own clout-chasing fraud 'localization' hacks.
>>12463024Eh, I'd retranslate a scene or two on YouTube, but I don't have the time to do a whole game's worth of dialogue. Tomato's got the right idea where he sits back and armchair translates
>>12463312I'd watch it.
>>12463472Thanks. I might actually do something like that one day
>>12463496I don't think you ever will though.
>>12463540You realize I could compare that scene right now and prove that no attempt was made to translate it, right? I don't need to insert text into a video game just to point out the obvious errors.
>>12463648And then some douch'll swoop in to text-insert your analysis work and claim credit, probably all for some patreon hustle.
>>12463648If you do it in real time on a stream it looks more authoritative.
>>12463691Exactly.>>12463718Not really. When Tomato streams his "comparison," it looks like he doesn't know what he's talking about at all, whereas on his Legends of Localization blog, he comes across as insightful and well-researched.
>>12463301Knowing the rotten timing these things have, SEGA will probably announce an Arcadia rerelease that's supposed to feature a revised script and obsolete the hack around the time it's out.>>12463748To be fair, there's a big difference between encountering things off-the-cuff and then sitting down and putting thought and external research into your writeups.
>>12463824Well, one would be ostensibly extemporaneous and the other carefully prepared. The latter will obviously come across as more authoritative, in contrast to what the other anon was saying.
>>12463748> When Tomato streams his "comparison," it looks like he doesn't know what he's talkingThats only because tomato can barely explain himself in english. I'm assuming you can do better but if you can't then thats fine.
>>12460928>Because they're afraid to be wrong.What if Woolsely was wrong in the first place? "Dream Stooges named Moe Larry and Curly" is something he invented, nobody liked, and the GBA version kept it in anyway. That's the shit I'm talking icon, people are ok with bad translation if it's Muh Nostalgia.
>>12463879>"Dream Stooges named Moe Larry and Curly" is something he invented, nobody likedBoomers internalized their (((programming))) so hard they started actually thinking a trio of jews doing slapstick was funny.
>>12463868Nah, he can barely explain anything. The guy doesn't know what he's talking about half the time.
>>12463879Yeah, that kind of thing is inexcusable. The pop culture references are one thing, but then Tom Slattery makes it even worse by canonizing them with Final Fantasy-sounding names.
>>12463932Boomers can't be trusted with anything because of their (((programming))).
>>12463932Exactly the same as this >>12449365 They all think the wrong decision made in localizing is too iconic to fix, both officially and fan-made.
>>12463943Masamune has the excuse of sounding "exotic" to the player. It's like YGO translating Thunderbolt as Raigeki. It's just a choice of localization.Larry Curly and Moe is a dumb boomer lobotomite who can only think in jewish terms due to his programming.
>>12463947>Masamune has the excuse of sounding "exotic" to the player.But is still wrong on account of it not even looking remotely like a Japanese-made sword. Woolsey likely just remembered that Masamune was the best sword in the first Final Fantasy and just reused the name aimlessly.And there's also all FFIV releases keeping Tellah's "spoony bard" insult to Edward and even FFI keeping Garland's "I'll knock you all down!" quip, both cases because the memes had become too iconic to remove (FF Origins tried to remove Garland's line and was met with very negative reaction, so they put it back for GBA and onward).
>>12463956>But is still wrong on account of it not even looking remotely like a Japanese-made sword.You have the bad kind of autism, and you live with your mom.
>>12463957Dad, actually.
>>12463960Welp.
>>12463891>they started actually thinking a trio of jews doing slapstick was funny.Slapstick is actually the height of humor thoughever. Followed closely by the classic straight man/funny man duo. Both formats require more thought and care to get laughs out of the audience than lazy, modern day standup sludge.
>>12463947It's essentially a non-translation and a pretty unfunny one at that.
>>12463970Straight man/funny duo is Japanese, and is based. Dumb assholes hitting each other is jewish, and so are you. HURRR DURRR
>be retard autist>enjoy thing for many years>discover Mongolian basket weaving forums>see some complaints about the mishandling of glorious nipponese poetry>decide to stop enjoying thing because of thisshiggy
>>12464003I thought Larry Curly and Moe was cringe when I was a young millennial. Now I can talk about it. Your jewish culture is just that lame.
>>12464009>young millennialthat is such an awkward specific phrasing choice that I have to only assume you are creating a narrative to die on a hill because you are a retard autist
>>12463973I like looney tunes.
>>12464015Shalom.
>>12464018I bet you do.
>>12463956Reminded me of this vintage review of Breath of Fire 2 and the guy actually started bitching because town names were actually being translated correctly from the mistakes the first game had because he valued consistency more than accuracy.
>>12464020the retard autist card defeats your "nuh uh ur a jew" card because calling everything you have been conditioned to not like Jewish is also a form of retard autism
>>12464025Shalom.
>>12464023Even back then people preferred to be lied to, dang.
>>12464023He would have hated Dragon Quest VIII when they nuked the old Dragon Warrior localization completely.
>>12463932This might be a coincidence, but the dream people were still named after real people earlier in development.>>12464023>I hope Capcom will see this article and re-translate everything as it was in the American I...That's funny in hindsight considering II's translation went south because Capcom lost Square Soft and Ted Woolsey lol.>and I REALLY hope they won't go the American comic-cover route...What's that mean?
>>12464141The US Box Art for BoF1 notoriously pushed for a comic book art style, because Capcom felt that would appeal more to Americans who were already buying comic books. The marketing also used it with comic book style paneling. In the end, Capcom double downed and the sequel's box art was even more American Comic Books.
>>12464153>American Comic Booksyour jewish lmao
>>12464141>This might be a coincidence, but the dream people were still named after real people earlier in development.Definitely a coincidence considering he called the "Three Dream Brothers" the "Dream Stooges."
>>12464190Shabbos goy gonna goy.
>>12460876"Cefca" is the official spelling used on Japanese merch though. It was well known back in the day because of the soundtrack CD.
>>12464445Name romanization is tough because the author doesn't always know himself how it should be spelled in English. The orthodox approach to a made-up name like ケフカ is to ascertain its country of origin. My guess is that they were looking at Franz Kafka (フランツ・カフカ) and swapped the A for an E. There's a character in Attack on Titan that has the exact same corruption.The Cefca spelling probably came from them trying to keep the whole thing feeling Italian, but its intended pronunciation would be confusing if left like that.
>>12464465>but its intended pronunciation would be confusing if left like thatIt would, and that's why people are so insistent on the Kefka spelling... but on the other hand everyone's also overly defensive of Woolsey spelling the samurai guy's name "Cyan" even though that's also pronounced with a k sound.
>>12447983>The only story whose translation matters is the bible. End of.Bro, you aren't ready for that can of worms let me tell you hwat.
>>12464486Well, that one's just wrong. Cyan is a color, Cayenne is a spice.
>>12464493Don't act like you know anything about Biblical translation.
>>12464445Kefka wasn't even made up by Woolsey. No one knew that Cefca would become the Japanese-preferred spelling used in spinoffs like Dissidia.
>>12464556Yeah, but it's pretty obvious Woolsey spelled his name "Cyan" because he incorrectly thought cyan WAS pronounced "kai-en".
>>12449473we do the same thing they do for meshi being meal and cooked rice too, since meal is ground grain
This thread seems like it lasted longer than usual. Did the board rules recently change?>>12464190"Stooge" at least implies that they're smallfries compared to the nightmare harvester boss. Also, this had me thinking about Wrexsoul. Maybe アレクソウル was intended to be "Alecsoul" after American impressionist painter Alec Montroy?>>12463024Nah, they'd rather be like >>12449365 that anon who endlessly complains about Masamune but can't into Temporal Flux.>>12464594Also space limitations. Same with Stragus.
>>12464595I believe those meals have separate etymologies.
>>12464606Breath of Fire 1 had a nasty space limitation of 4 letters for all party members, so Woolsey basically changed every name except Ryu, Nina, and somehow Mogu. And then he applied this rule to NPC characters who weren't beholden to that limit.
>>12464606>Maybe アレクソウル was intended to be "Alecsoul" after American impressionist painter Alec Montroy?I doubt it. Gris, Renoir, and Cezanne were all prominent French artists, whereas Alec Montroy was neither.The most obvious answer is that it's Alexsoul because it's the soul of Alexander, which is based on Alexander the Great.
I have yet to play any FF game because each of them has like 5 different ports/fan retranslations so I just put it off over and over again
>>12464630Unfortunately, everyone struggles with creating an accurate translation due to sheer incompetence at the language.
>>12464634It’s kinda crazy how even after more than 30 years none of them managed to find a native japanese speaker to help them
>>12464630Just play the originals, and in the case of the games that weren't released in English in the 90's, just get whatever fan translation was making the rounds in the late 90's or early 2000's, before it became the exercise in autism and EOP one-upmanship it became later on. No need to complicate it. As much as I appreciate it, these are games made for young boys and teenagers.
>>12464639None of it even requires a native. This isn't Soseki we're translating. Just some foundational knowledge and a little discipline would be enough.
>>12464645I was gonna do that with FFIV but then realized the official NA release uses the “Easy Type” version for FFII. Is it too easy or good enough for a first playthrough?
>>12464660NTA, but it's way too easy. Practically brain dead
>>12464667Admittedly I haven't played NA FF2 in ages and ages, but in terms of monster/boss stats and stuff, I don't think it's really THAT different from the original game. It is, however, drastically simplified, with a lot of items removed and character skills excised. I do believe one thing that makes it substantially easier is that you get easy access to cheap and plentiful Heal/Remedy items, making status effects a lot easier to deal with, where in the original you had a bunch of separate status heal items like Gold Needles and Antidotes, with Remedies being rare and expensive once available. But maybe I'm forgetting something else that made it trivial in comparison.
>>12464667Well damn, I can live with an imperfect translation but if the gameplay is boring too, that sounds like a pretty shitty experience. From what I can tell the two big fan translations are J2E and Namingway? People seem to be shitting on the former for over the top swearing but there are patches by other people to fix that, is the latter still better anyway?
Oh, also, NA FF2 probably has the roughest official English translation of them all, though it's not incomprehensible or anything.
>>12464660FF4ET and burger FF2 are actually different games, oddly enough. But yeah, they're less "easy mode" and more "retard mode", with a lot of shit that was considered too complicated for little Billy getting removed. >>12464672J2E is a fucking terrible translation, but so is the official FF2 one. J2E probably reads better too, the official translation was done by a bilingual nip whose grasp on English grammar wasn't the best.
>>12464691To be fair, some or even most of the commands that were taken out really were pretty useless and/or poorly implemented. I think this change gets a lot of shit mostly due to the removal of DK Cecil's Dark Wave, which is a cool and fitting (even if not always the most useful) ability, and not having access to it unironically made it a bit more difficult to figure out what you actually had to do when fighting him as a Paladin.
>>12464630The official translations of whatever version you play are really good enough, save for the games that weren't officially translated back then if you decide to go the original route. You'll want the Chaos Rush versions of II & III; the original RPGe version of V still holds up, being generally better than the PlayStation version, and is compatible with fixpatches.>>12464672Neither, play the PlayStation conversion if you want uncut original. It's close to the original experience and is the only port without bad load times.>>12464673If you want a fun one, try out the Final Fantasy II prototype by the same guy. It actually makes the game entertaining to play through more than the other translations.
>>12464706I always just killed him as a paladin, didn't realize that wasn't the intended solution until years later. He has surprisingly little HP for an opponent you're not meant to defeat.
>>12464776>If you want a fun one, try out the Final Fantasy II prototype by the same guy. It actually makes the game entertaining to play through more than the other translations.That's sad, considering that it got the best story out of the first five games.
>>12464617Based Ted capturing kids' imaginations by making it seem that any random NPC can join your party.>>12464691>J2E is a fucking terrible translation, but so is the official FF2 one.Hi Namingway.
>>12464812Why are all the numbers negative?
>>12464836Translation is a negative thing. Tower of Babel.
>>12464836See >>12452957, Clyde "Tomato" Mandelin restarted his Final Fantasy IV comparison for his Legends of Localization series out of the blue, replacing the MTL entry (presumably because >>12459894 machines got better) with fan hacks. All the "major" SNES translations are bad in different ways, just no one big enough dug into Namingway Edition. We knew it was a script-cherrypick by a nontranslator, but a lot of people didn't know it was a total guesstimation and expected his reverse-porting would carry him through. It's funny because Mato bought into the performative hype years ago and even endorsed it at one point, but now he's realizing that hacking SNES Final Fantasy II is a big mistake if you're trying to make a proper IV translation. It's a race to the bottom at this point.Expect to see a half-dozen "definitive" fork projects crop up while the original author suddenly makes new versions to remain at the top of RHDN's submission list so video-essayists keep playing his hack.
>>12464906>Expect to see a half-dozen "definitive" fork projects crop upAlready happening. People in the romhacking scene who don't know Japanese and who take on tons of projects (where they spend 90% of their time translation begging to people who also don't know Japanese who are just guesslating) waste no time in trying to get their hands on this shit.
>>12464960wtf is this tiny ass text?at least post a link so we can make fun of our intrepid interloper.
>>12464836They started at 100. -1 point for every missing line/added line/mistranslation/poor translation.
>>12464812>random NPCThey're all major characters and frequently the antagonists, including the final boss
>>12464960I hate rom "translators" so much.
>>12465045Antisemite.
>>12465001Trust me you dont wanna see it.
>>12465082>It's time for The Airship EngineerI demand to know which esl desperate for fame and fortune is doing this now.
>>12464776>It's close to the original experienceI’m getting mixed signals>>12464843>>12464906>>12465032So the J2E translation is bad but the Namingway one is even worse? Also if the DS/mobile/PC versions are the most accurate, how come no one bothered to port them to SNES?
>>12465119Learn Japanese or prepare for war. These are your options.
>>12465119Honestly if you want to play any rpg I'd say either learn japanese or just play the official original release since at least that way you get the same experience everyone else did back in the day.
>>12465123>>12465128I’m getting hardfiltered by the simplest kanji so I guess I’ll go with the original releases then
>>12465134It's actually very simple. Wife (ornament)
>>12465139For me it's 姦
>>12465140Literally just three women.
>>12465142Very understandable meaning as well.
>>12465139I understand how many kanji are combinations of simple ones but that doesn’t help me memorize them nor figure out the reading>onna + ie = yomeShit makes no sense>>12465140I think I remember this one, does that mean “noise”?
>>12465160Stfu engagement bot.
>>12465119As >>12451353 said, the problem is twofold: 1) English script has more expressive language that would render porting to SFC difficult due to space issues, and 2) 3D has a large chunk of the text rewritten even in Japanese, and most hackers are too lazy to compare the Japanese which is what matters if you're going to make an English rescript. Most hack players are dumb-dumbs who kind of trust text-hackers to do what they say and their only metric for it being any good is it doesn't softlock the game, which is especially cumbersome if you have an unhealthily delusional hacker who makes grand overstatements of his work. Right now, PS1 is -probably- the best way to play the original, and probably for the foreseeable future until someone stops handling these hacks with kid-gloves and makes a total script port.The 3D version kind of exists in its own bubble separate from the 2D versions, in a way. Each 2D rerelease is touched up from the last, so if you went from SNES->PS1->GBA you'd see how each retranslation was built upon the last and has some holdovers. The PSP and PR rereleases are interesting because textwise they're both touchups of the GBA version, but PSP adds in some DS terminology and some phrasing for better continuity with The After Years, while PR undoes all of that but still keeps a few subtle fixes like Palom's farewell to Cecil. I'm going to wager a guess that PR is most compatible with the SFC/SNES text, and so a script port should be doable.
>>12465169your jewish
>>12464606Dream Stooges was an American pop cuture reference though. He named them Larry, Curly, and Moe.Similar to Chrono Trigger where Toriyama's condiment pun names for Magus' henchmen got replaced with rock musician based names Ozzie (Osbourne), Slash (GnR), and Flea (RHCP)
>>12465230Yeah well I don't like the former because it's just cringe, but the latter is cool so it's OK.
>>12465230>Americanjewish. Actual Americans do not give a single shit about this faggotry.
>>12465160>I think I remember this one, does that mean “noise”?Yes, three women are "noise".Well, that or it can also mean "evil".
>>12465134Japanese can a long time to learn. No need to rush or feel bad if you feel like you're not making much progress. It's a war of attrition. Just keep at it.
>>12465134>>12465317This. Kanji takes a lot of memorization time but it's worth it because it helps give context that you can't get from hiragana. A lot of people when their Japanese improves go full-circle to now the hiragana "training wheels" seem tougher to go back to because kanji makes intention and sentence-structure more legible.
>>12465325>make a mazelike language>kikes still subvert youMeaningless.
>>12465325Yeah, it's similar to how little kids have an easier time parsing stuff written by other little kids than adults do because the kids all have similarly shitty spelling and will inherently understand what a lot of nearly incomprehensibly misspelled words mean.
>>12460876"Shogun" is kinda interesting as a loanword in general, since there's no reason it should've ever been kept as "shogun" in English in any context. It's similar to how English speakers use the German "Führer" about Hitler but the translated "Great Leader" about the Kim Jongs, there's little consistency.
>>12466207I don't even think that it is out of place for FF6, considering that no one translates Cyan's job as a Knight or Shadow as a Spy, an Agent or an Assassin (though funnily enough the latter is also a loan word).
>>12466251>Shadow as an Assassin Disregard that part, I'm a retard who for some reason misremembered his class being a Ninja.
>>12451213>>12451858Looking at this line, I'd say something like "How can we..." would be the best way to handle きみとは to ensure English readers' thoughts end up going in the same direction as the original readers.
>>12466207Hitler is worthy of his own word.
>>12455357>...OH, that line makes SO much more sense now: the old man recognizes him and seems a little surprised that the Returners sent him given his reputation, and he's incredulous about it, not asking what's up. No, he's just being a dick, it's similar to that "did you quit beating your wife yet?" thing.>You sure took you time. So how are things? Still a thief?>I'm a TREASURE HUNTER, you asshole>lol right
>>12466382So what you mean is that >>12454927 was right this whole time, and that this dude >>12454957 trying to clown on him was the clown all along?
>>12466482Yeah, I think that other guy just misses the tone.The full exchange is this:>老人「やっと来おったか。ところで、ドロボウからは 足をあらったのか?>{ﾛｯｸ}「ど・ろ・ぼ・う? 俺を呼ぶならトレジャーハンターと 言ってくれ!>老人「ハッハッハ! 同じようなもんじゃろうが!>{ﾛｯｸ}「ちっちっ! 大ちがいだぜ!!Woolsey is pretty fine here. It's not word for word literal, but he understands what the characters are saying and what's going on in the scene as a whole, so the exchange itself gets the similar idea across.
>>12466382Nope. You're changing the wording around to give him the benefit of the doubt. He did not say, "Still a thief?" He said definitively, "How goes being a thief?" which shows that Woolsey pretty blatantly didn't understand the question. He knew by context that the old man was in some way saying he was a thief, because Locke's reaction makes it obvious, but he didn't understand that the man was asking him if he had given it up, not how it was going.>>12466482Nah, he's 100% wrong here. In fact, I'm not sure if there's any way to really exonerate Woolsey in this. Woolsey essentially misunderstood the line through and through with the word 泥棒 being just about the only part he could make sense of.
>>12466570Anon, the difference is just that Woolsey has him ask what his thief life is like these days instead of whether he's still a thief or not. In both cases he's not asking an actual question he wants an answer to, he's just trying to push Lock's buttons by using a word he knows he doesn't like being called. That's why the rest of the conversation is about thief vs treasure hunter rather than Lock answering the question he was asked.
>>12466628Those are pretty different questions. Yes, Woolsey made sure the question could still be answered by Locke in the same way, but it's obvious he didn't quite understand what the old man meant by "washing his feet from being a thief."I understand that we all want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but there's really no way to justify it other than the guy just plain didn't know it.
>>12466657They're different in wording, but contextually they're the same "lol thief" not-actual-questions. The actual wording of the question being asked isn't the point here.
>>12466667Well, not just in wording, but in meaning also. Woolsey only gets away with it because Locke doesn't answer the question, but then again, if Locke had answered it, Woolsey would've had a better time guessing at the meaning.
>>12466676Either way the point of my post was to point out that this >>12455357 interpretation was wrong, and that the main idea of the original Japanese was still the same "asking a question he didn't want an answer to in order to call Lock a thief because he knew that would piss him off" meaning Woolsey's line had.
>>12466681You're correct that that one guy's misunderstanding the tone, but you were wrong when you agreed with >>12466482 that I had misunderstood the scene. This is a textbook mistranslation that you're trying to find some way to justify.
>>12466691>This is a textbook mistranslationI don't necessarily think it is. The fan tl clearly misunderstood the line and wrote some best-guess nonsense about quickfootedness, but Woolsey's line is so different from the literal meaning I think it's more likely he just chose to have the guy ask a different question that likewise pushed the same "don't use that word" buttons.
>>12466697The different question that still leads to the same answer points to textual harmonization. Woolsey didn't understand what was being asked, but he knew it implied the old man was calling Locke a thief, so he doubled down on that logic by having the man ask him how his thievery was going. What he clearly didn't know was that the old man was actually asking if he had quit.Ironically, the grammar 泥棒からは~ could really only point to it being interpreted one way, but I think Woolsey genuinely still couldn't piece it together, which is *somewhat* understandable given the time period, whereas Tom had no excuse.
>>12466706Yeah, maybe. The line he wrote was in no way an attempt at translating what was literally said, so while it's easy to tell the fan tl didn't understand the line, it's harder to say with Woolsey. Either way the actual inherent meaning of the line is still intact, which is more than you can say about multiple other lines in that same conversation.
>>12466731Not maybe, definitely. Woolsey's line is as made-up as the fantranslator's. The only difference is that Woolsey made no attempt at interpreting the expression.
>Woolsey was right!>Woolsey was wrong!Argument for the ages.
>>12466787There's no argument. He made many legitimate mistakes, and they're easy to point out nowadays.
Imagine if Woolsey read this thread.
>>12466874Sadly, he passed away several decades ago.
>>12466881He's still semiactive in the industry you weird liar, after localization for Nintendo games he did brief design work for Sony before moving on to business for Microsoft.
>>12466917You're right, I was just localizing his lifespan.
>>12466921I laughed.
>>12466917
Ted Woolsey has to be one of the most mythologized figures in translation ever.>his claim to fame was translating and condensing Final Fantasy VI/III in a 30-day crunch by himself armed with some smudgy fax notes>the pro-Woolseys imagine this gruelling short-staffed rush happened for every game he's worked on ever>the anti-Woolseys make up a word ('Woolseyism') and hallucinate that he's responsible for other arguably worse-translated Final Fantasy games
>>12466940Ted Woolsey essentially became the translator for every game from that era. Earthbound? Woolsey. FFIV? Woolsey. Chrono Cross? Well, he did the first one so...
>>12459905That image parts from the idea that if something doesn't sound "cool" in English, or it sounds "dry and uninteresting", that it also sounds bad in the original language when in fact it can sound perfectly good in the original. Have you heard the Russian "town road" song? The translated lyrics are naff and dry but the song itself is great. Also in Japanese it's normal for attendants to tell visitors to enjoy something in a polite and inviting manner because it's their culture. Fuck, MGS2 starts with a girl telling you to enjoy the game like a subway announcement or the voice clips they play before movies in the movie theatre. That translator was just salty because "huuuh, this sounds dry, why couldn't I have added my own hilarious sense of humour into this otherwise perfectly fine game? It needs more jokes and references to American life. I want to write a joke about plowing your driveway!" Localizers are a cancer.
>>12467019It's also disingenious as hell, the "literal translation" isn't actually literal, but a localization that goes out of its way to sound as repetitive as possible.
>>12467159>trannylator>disingenious I am in shock.
Localization is one of the most mismanaged words, especially in the unprofessional ROMhacking scene.You see anyone unironically use the word "relocalization" you run far away in the other direction..
