Can anyone give a definitive answer as to why the Japanese have the rightmost face button as Confirm/OK and the bottommost button as Cancel/Back while it is the opposite for Americans?I get the whole O is yes and X is no thing, but even during the SNES days I remember most games having the B button be the Confirm/OK button. And, later of course, the Xbox made the OK button green and No button red like traffic lights so that further solidified it.But like what was the first game with a controller like this (4 buttons in a diamond or slanted rectangular shape) to swap the buttons between regions?
>>12469454The Japanese always have the right button for OK. SNES is made for American market, Super Famicom has A for confirm too.
The B button on SNES is usually the main action button (mostly jumping) so it naturally doubles as the confirm key when menus and dialog pop up due to the player almost always having their thumb on that button.
>>12469454>>12469461Uuuuuh...
>>12469471Thats a joke not a console
>>12469496That's literally the modern standard for face buttons.
>>12469513And its dogshit. 6 button layouts would've been superior.
>>12469516Six buttons are as bad as the n64 controller, your thumb should be able to reach all buttons with ease and that's not happening with a six buttons controller
>>12469454>while it is the opposite for AmericansIt wasn't though. X for accept, Triangle for cancel was the standard for western games until like halfway through the PS3 generation.Sure there were some games that used O to cancel, and of course the XMB featured it, but the vast majority of western games didn't implement it till way way later than you think.
>>12469520>n64 controller>im gonna pick the shittiest 6 button controllerYou can do a 6 button layout with two analog sticks if you dont have a mental midget design it.
>>12469567Anything with more than 4 face buttons suck regardless of the analogue sticks, use LR not ZY
>>12469568>you cant have 6 face buttons with L1, R1, triggers and 6 face buttons>because you just cant, okay?
>>12469572Because it's redundant, you shouldn't need a keyboard to play console games
>>12469567>>im gonna pick the shittiest 6 button controllerNo one has even mentioned the Jaguar Pro Controller.
>>12469590At least you didn't need a manual on how to hold it
If I'm playing an RPG, I'm habituated to: >O for accept, X to cancel.For something like Mario, I'm torn between: >Hold □ to run and drop the joint of your thumb to hit X when you jump>Or hold X to run and slightly rotate your thumb to hit the O button to jumpX to confirm, △ to cancel is bullshit.
When i was a kid X was "Okay" and Triangle was "Back". Now its O for "Back" Wha happen???
>>12469640I never saw triangle for back. I remember A is confirm and Y is back for xbox games. At least for San Andreas it was.
The Famicom controller was one of the first controllers to have multiple buttons while not being ambidextrous. Older multi-button systems either had ambidextrous setups with buttons on either side of the controller (Colecovision, Intellivision, Atari 5200) or weird keypad layouts. The Vectrex was the only outlier of note.Nintendo did things backwards. A is on the right and B is on the left. This was intentional, as they wanted the A button to be closer to your hand. As it was the 'primary button' it was the one used for confirming things and B was for cancelling things. This continued with the SNES controller.Both the Sega Master System and the 7800 gamepads, which were blatant copies of the Nintendo gamepad, labeled their buttons 1 and 2. The Mega Drive/Genesis switched to letters for some reason but they were in order: A B C. Oddly, enough though it came out 5 years after the Famicom controller Sega only put 4 total buttons on their controller. It wouldn't be until 1992, 9 years after the Famicom and 4 years into the systems lifespan, that they would actually have more buttons. That '6 button controller', which had 8 total buttons, used A B C on the bottom row and X Y Z on the top. The Saturn was more of the same. Sega tried to mix things up with the Dreamcast controller but the face buttons were just the Saturn controller with the right most column deleted and tilted on an angle. That is why B is where it is. Microsoft just copied that.The PlayStation controller was clearly just a copy of the SNES controller. They had to switch things up though. They couldn't just wholesale copy a 4 year old controller design for a brand new $300 console. First, they had to dodge Nintendo's D-pad patent. It also needed an ergonomic upgrade. Make the shoulder buttons shittier but double them to make up for it. Make start a triangle for some reason. Oh, and go with shapes on the face buttons instead of letters. Still though, the closest button to the right hand is confirm.
>>12469640O was always there as a "cancel". the more important point is that X i.e. the button in the bottom position of the diamond/where your thumb naturally hovers when holding the controller was "confirm". for some reason the japs never understood this
>>12469454>>12469530it was actually around 2002-03 that b/circle became the standard cancel button in the west>>12469567n64 has the best 6-button layout. fite me irl
>>12469454>Can anyone give a definitive answer as to why the Japanese have the rightmost face button as Confirm/OK and the bottommost button as Cancel/Back while it is the opposite for Americans?I can explain why Japan has it the way it is. for the famicom B is on the left A is on the right. B is cancel A is confirm. On the SFC B is on the left A is on the right. B is cancel A is confirm. Playstation followed the standard and everything is perfectly logical.I cannot tell you why it was swapped when it came to america, knowing everything else about how games got changed just to justify a job I would wager that it was altered because they thought they were smarter.
>>12469640gotta stretch your thumb to the triangle button its too much effort circle is easier to reach
>>12469454I don't think we'll ever know who changed it, but they must be retarded since the Japanese way makes 50x more sense. When you take a multiple choice test, you CIRCLE the answer you are selecting and CROSS the answers you know you are not selecting. The symbols on the buttons indicate what they do. Every thing is logical and well designed. Moreover, since it has the same layout as the Super Famicom controller which has A (the confirm button) of the right and B (the back button) on the bottom, your muscle memory carries over between controllers. There is zero logic to the way North American games map the buttons. Why is CROSS, the symbol that means no, mean yes, and why is TRIANGLE, the only face button you have to physical shift your thumb to hit, mean back? It's like they designed it for maximum discomfort.It would be one thing to only implement their shitty control scheme in western developed games, but publishers actually had the gall to edit the menus controls in the North American releases of Japanese games. It's the smallest thing ever but as someone who plays a lot of games from both regions it's probably my biggest peeve in gaming.
>>12469640there might be some other niche things that do this but i only remember this being the case for SoTN.
>>12469590>ZYX>CBA>american company
>>12469640I think most western games used this format. Jap games used O to go back and usually triangle for menu
>>12469454these are still the best controllers ever made. the addition of analog sticks was a fucking mistake.
>>12470027The Jag was a desperate last gasp for survival by a company run by out of touch morons. They slapped it together using people and tech they bought from a different failing company. The fact that the fucking controller had a numerical pad like it was 1982 was proof enough that they were dangerously retarded. Then they launched the system with only 3 games, all of which were middling to poor. They only had 17 games available on the platform after 14 months, 10 of which were ports from other systems. The port of Raiden was 3 years old by that point. Atari finally restarted in-house development, after basically ignoring the 7800 its entire life, yet didn't actually hire anyone competent or give them decent budgets. They shit out 4 games for the system, half of which are contenders of 'worst video game of all time', and then called it a day.
>>12469465>Every gamer who grew up with super mario bros expects A to jump!!!>>12469590the hard plastic looks really uncomfortable to hold. But at least the layout is okay.Those little ass handles aren't helping tho.>>12469471This is surprisingly comfortable to hold. The only problem is the cable positioning, it's a little fucky.Ironically the N64 controller feels really nice too, the side handles are still in one in ergonomical applicationsThey even use that design piece in military applications.The only problem is dingdong in the middle with a shitty ass stick.Sorry for the offtopic, i get carried away with discussions about controller design
>>12469850Because Sega. They did ABC, then XYZ from left to right, then dropped the C and Z, which the Xbox then copied.
For some reason it makes sense to me to press B to cancel on the SNES pad but for PS1 it makes more sense to cancel with circle.
>>12469471Why did they give this thing less buttons than the 3D Saturn controller?
>>12470293Because 6 buttons was wholly unnecessary, barely any games ever used all six meaningfully, and if games came out that needed more, Sega could make money selling more controllers.
>>12469454japs read from upper right to bottom left dumb dumb. so for the nes the first button they would "read" would be A on the right, and then the second button naturally would be B which would be on the left. Nintenchads have rightfully stuck to the convention even though western reading is different but everyone else caved.
>>12469530>triangle for cancelname 5 games that actually do this. Ill wait
>>12470359>Because 6 buttons was wholly unnecessary, barely any games ever used all six meaningfullyNot sure about the Saturn library, but there were already a good amount of PSX games that used all or almost all the buttons on the controller, and that had 3 more buttons than the Dreamcast controller. I understand the money point, but it was definitely necessary to put a couple more buttons somewhere, especially when the previous console already did.
>>12469454It started in the US because X is where your thumb would rest naturally, for Circle you have to move your thumb a bit. It's mostly just laziness.
>>12470372Capcom's fighting games used all of ABC, XYZ, but most games did stupid shit with them. Like mapping multiple of them to the same functions or not using them at all.
>>12469454snes wasn't like nes with B for Cancel and A for Okay? I remember it being like that.
>>12469640Triangle was the popular button used for cancel on PS1/PS2 by US/European devs, and also Jap devs on big games like the Gran Turismos and the Smackdowns, but using Circle for cancel became universal in Western games when the PS3 came out.It was especially weird because games like Marvel Ultimate Alliance and FIFA 08 had circle for back on PS3, but retained triangle for back on their PS2 counterparts.
>>12470098The num pad made sense for Doom.
>>12469454The Famicom controller just had A and B, and developers seemed to ign themselves to the idea that A is accept and B is back.The Super Famicom controller added 2 more buttons, X and Y. Carrying on from the previous generation, A was still accept and B was still back. Probably so players wouldn't be confused.Playstation chose shapes for the layout. In Japanese, it's 〇 (Maru) and X (batsu). Maru means good or correct, and batsu means incorrect, so naturally the two buttons would be used as accept and cancel. Sony just happened to put them in the same alignment as A and B on the Super Famicom controller, so that placement stuck.
>>12470004Most games on PS1 did that actually
The reason why is BA and not AB is simply because the Japanese read from the right to the left.Must be annoying as fuck to be an old timer player in Japan, having used the button on the right to confirm for over 30 years and then Sony goes and suddenly changes for no reason.
>>12471428Wouldn't happen because barely anyone still plays PlayStation in Japan anymore. Switch dominates the market and PC is bigger than PlayStation now.
>>12469590Atari was mental
>>12470778Growing up with old school shooters, it was fairly common for each weapon you could pickup to have its own key. They were generally selected with the number keys. Doom, Dark Forces, Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight, Outlaws, Wolfenstein 3D, Quake, System Shock 1 and 2, Duke Nukem 3D, etc. They were just implementing that, which I do give them props for. id Software handled the port themselves, which is probably why it was so good. It was only later, mostly because so many mediocre shooters were simply lazy ports of console games, that you had to cycle weapons like a fucking rolodex. Yeah, we know you have a keyboard with at least 104 keys, but we designed this game for a controller with only 8 action buttons and we're too cheap to pay anyone to update the code. You cycle weapons with Q and E. No, you can't remap the keys. Why would you need to do that? Oh, and when in a vehicle you steer with the mouse and move the camera with the keyboard. Have fun!>>12471084>Sony just happened to put them in the same alignment as A and B on the Super Famicom controllerI very much doubt they 'just happened' to give them the same function while they were busy copying the SNES controller. That is like saying you just happened to spell all the words correctly when you were copying your bros homework.
>>12469690Great analysis, you are very perceptive
>>12469471dead on arrival lookin mfer
>>12469454im no expert, but i always assumed it was something about how they read from right to left, while whoever made the decision in the west simply rested their thumb on the bottom button and considered that the default action/confirm button.
>>12469835X was confirm on ps1 and circle was back. This was late 90s. I can’t forget because on the metal gear solid demo it was the other way around. I used to get those demo discs from Sony in the post
>>12476383Triangle was back. Think about it you’ll remember
>>12476401This. I always thought of it as an eject from whatever menu you were in, like an escape button. Maybe some used O, but everything I can think of used triangle.
>>12469690>Make start a triangle for some reason.It was to mimic the "play" button from music players.
