Why wasn't Wart ever revisited as a main antagonist in the Mario series?
same reason why dr. wily is an antagonist (or at least an indirect enemy) in all mega man gamesand dracula in castlevaniaand king dedede in kirbyjapanese devs
I think it's because he simply wasn't different enough from Bowser to be interesting, and wasn't regarded as necessary when they could just stick with the more recognizable and marketable one.If you look at all the common enemies which were carried on with after SMB2 USA, they all looked different and did then new things for the Super Mario roster.
>>12494690Wart was never the antagonistIt was all a dream
>>12494719Links Awakening was a dream too, would be cool if he was the Freddie Kruger of the Mario Universe.
It's like, what do you even do with Wart that you can't do with Bowser? Even the cartoon just had Bowser leading the Mario 2 bosses, since the two are so damn interchangable.
I think Wart's only real shot for a comeback would have been Yoshi's Island, if they wanted to give Yoshi his own Bowser. But they just opted to use Baby Bowser.
So are we moving from Pokemon spam to Mario 2 spam or is this taking the place of resident evil spam?
>>12494719>>12494738Dreams were the medium for the events in those games, but saying "it was all a dream" is rather disingenuous because in both cases the protagonists were in real physical danger the entire time.
>dream characterNot canon
>>12494719It took place in Subcon, a dream world, so to Mario and friends it was effectively a dream, but the Subcons and monsters they encountered would seem to ve living beings which existed before and after Mario's "dream." Subcon is basically another plane of reality with its own denizens that people can sometimes enter when they dream.
>>12494690The use of any Mario 2 baddies outside of the usual recurring ones (Shy Guys, Bob-ombs, Pokeys, and Birdo) are few and far between. Look how long it took for Phanto to finally make a new appearance in Mario Wonder, and even that's limited to the Switch 2 multiplayer upgrade.
>>12494751>it's popular so it's spam
Going back to the dream world isn't a bad idea for the game
Because he's not really a Mario antagonist.
>>12494885Same reason we never saw Birdo or shy guys again
>>12494895Yeah, well...they're a species. Wart's just...Wart. The big frog guy with a crown.There's only one of him.
>>12494910Just like Birdo
>>12494895>we never saw Birdo or shy guys againBirdo is in Super Mario RPG and shy guys are in Yoshi's Island.
>>12494690Im upset we never got a sequel to mario 2. I get it was doki doki panic, but Id have loved a follow up after mario world. Would have been fun to be able to pick between the 4 characters in new levels. Maybe even add characters.
>>12494690Because he was fucking IMAGINARY. It was all a cunting DREAM. He never happened!
Mouser was a more memorable mario villain than wart.
>>12494969https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm
>>12495008I always thought a follow up to Mario 2/USA would have been prime material for a Peach game, or 4 female characters with their own traits with her, Daisy, Toadette and Rosalina.
>>12495068That's because most players only ever beat Mouser before getting bored and stopping.
>>12495135We really only ever got 1 mario game on the SNES. World 2 really is a yoshi game. A princess game based on SMB2 could have been great.
>>12494690Because he never was an antagonist n the first place.
>>12495008SM 3D World was basically that, same playable cast and all.
Dorky Dorky Picnic
>>12494690What's the point in exchanging one large green reptile guy for another? Including others like K Rool, he's basically the same character again. >>12494738That would at least be more interesting if he was some kind of Dream Demon that never really appears in the real world.
>>12494690I think it's cool how he appears in the Wind Fish's dream.
>>12494690should have made a Mario game that switches between the "real world" and "dream world" so you have to defeat wart AND bowser at the end.
>>12495393>"dream world"It's called Subcon and it's a real place you access through astral projecting while asleep.
>>12495393Should the physics change too like enemies in the real world are stomppable while enemies in the dream world you have to throw things at them?
>>12495338that game is nothing SMB2, its a completely different kind of game.
>>12495393The fact Wart nor Subcon appeared in Mario&Luigi Dream Team, is fucking heinous.
SMB2 definitely had the most interesting enemies.
For the same reason that Yoshi never evolved past Yoshi's Island and in some cases, regressed. Nintendo never considered trying to make him distinct from Bowser if being too similar was an issue (It's not). Someone on /v/ mentioned that Wart could be Yoshi's villain and that could not only keep Yoshi ties with Mario but also give him a unique dynamic with a lesser-used villain. Yoshi even uses SMB2's main enemies anyway. They finally dusted K. Rool off, so Wart should get the same treatment, instead of being stuck in a shitty movie.
>>12494690Because Wart was never a real Mario Bros character, because Mario Bros 2 was not a real Mario game.
>>12496325Yes, we know about Doki Doki Panic. And because of the rights issues around that game, they couldn't continue it as it was, so they made it a Mario game. And the rest is history.
>>12494738>We're the dream warrioooooors!Actually, now I'm envisioning Wario facing off against Freddy, and Freddy uses Wario's greed to torment him, but since Wario can no longer die (at least in WL2 and WL3), this makes a complicated situation where Freddy doesn't know what to do. Wario then tries to figure out ways to exploit Freddy's dream realm abilities for profit, in the same way that Nancy pulled Freddy's hat out of there.>>12494749Yoshi going into a dreamworld could be good. Baby Bowser made sense for Yoshi's first game, counterpart for Baby Mario and all, but Mario and Bowser eventually grow up, and maybe Wart could be brought in as the new designated big bad for Yoshi or something.Maybe Yoshi goes for a nap, Kamek casts a spell on him, which makes Yoshi enter a dream world where Wart breaks free. And maybe then Yoshi has to chase after Wart across multiple character's dreams.>>12494895Birdo and Shyguys are both functionally and aesthetically different, which is probably why they kept using those.Again, King Wart isn't really meaningfully different from the existing big bad of Bowser, but Shyguys are a good kind of generic enemy goon character who you can make do all sorts of things (including being neutral or even friendly). Birdo worked as a miniboss first time around, and pretty uniquely, fired projectiles which you could get on top of and ride in the air, and thus pick up and throw back (which doesn't make physical sense, but it's neat).Birdo's original gameplay function wasn't ever brought back to my knowledge, but they dredged him up again as a player character for side games like Mario Party and Mario Tennis, as some kind of pink female/gay counterpart to Yoshi.(Did they retcon Birdo being a troon, or was that only in the SMB2 manual or something?).
I deserved a deep cut reference to Doki Doki Panic during that scene.
>>12496325It essentially became a real one by retooling Diddy Diddy Prison into a Mario game, and gets retroactively enforced further by characters and designs which Nintendo created by themselves being carried forward into later titles (most importantly the Shy Guys).>>12496327Well, less rights issues (they own all the important parts), more that Droopy Droopy Penis was already a good and really Mario-esque game, which would be fast and easy to etc, etc, did you know that... etc, etc.There would be rights issues in trying to bring back the original Dodgy Dodgy Pancreas, but such a thing would be wildly unnecessary, as trying to negotiate rights and licensing for some old forgotten characters nobody cares about, just for the sake of an inferior version of Super Mario Bros. 2 would be insanely not worth it.They released it domestically as Super Mario Bros. U.S.A for good reasons.
>>12495008Something I think would be worth revisiting specifically would be the whole part about pulling a bigass turnip (with a face on it) out of the ground, to them bean an enemy in the head with it.>>12495068True, because he's different.>>12495379Does Subcon then exist in the same realm as Koholint, or did Wart just manage to find his way there anyway?
>>12496624>(Did they retcon Birdo being a troon, or was that only in the SMB2 manual or something?).If it was US booklet lore, it's gone. Along with the Koopa Kids being Bowsers kids, Wario and Waluigi being brothers and so on. It was never canon in Japan is the way nintendo sees it.
>>12496759Wario and Waluigi aren't brothers?
>>12496624Birdo was a boss in super mario rpg where she/he had the egg gimmicks.
>>12496759>Wario and Waluigi being brothersThen who the fuck IS Waluigi?!
>>12496663I was be interested to know if most of the enemies predated Doiky Doiky Pissman back when it was being worked on as an original game. I wouldn't be surprised if the fuji tv fuckers were themselves essentially pasted in characters.
>>12496759>>12496841>>12496904I know the one Mario Party gave team names based on pairings and for them it was "Super Wicked Brothers", so i always assumed that was their last name. Does the jap version use different team names?
>>12496759>If it was US booklet lore, it's goneNo, it was in the Japanese version, too. They even have a whole chapter about it in Captain Rainbow. It's just the sort of thing Nintendo tries not to mention anymore. I don't think they ever strictly de-canonized it, though.
>>12496624>(Did they retcon Birdo being a troon, or was that only in the SMB2 manual or something?).No, that's still canon. Pic related is from the Superstar Saga remake a couple years ago.
>>12496327I don't understand why too many anons want to pretend Mario 2 is 100% separated in every way, and somehow convinced themselves that Nintendo of Japan refuses to acknowledge it.When Bomb-ombs were placed into the very next game.Ninjis and Pokeys were put into Mario worldShyguys were added to Yoshi's IslandBirdo was added to Mario Kart and Mario TennisAnd Luigi has been a tall, slow jumping character since Mario Advance 3.clearly someone in Japan likes the ideas presented in that game.
>>12496958And how often do any SMB2 enemies beyond those you listed ever appear? I mean, Ninjis are only starting to become semi-regulars after SMW didn't even identify them by name in the cast roll.>And Luigi has been a tall, slow jumping character since Mario Advance 3.That was first established in the other SMB2 ("The Lost Levels")
>>12494690Is Link's Awakening still his last appearance or no?
>>12496663>It essentially became a real one by retoolingYou can't do that. That's like saying you can become a woman when you're born male. It's either a Mario game from the start or not at all. YWNBAW btw.
>>12496973The new Mario Kart game actually brought back the Mario 2 snakes. Although they have such a modern redesign they're almost unrecognizable. But it's pretty clear they're supposed to be them.
>>12495374>What's the point in exchanging one large green reptile guy for another?One's an amphibian though.
>>12496904Reincarnation of the final boss from VB Wario Land that took a form vaguely resembling the last being that destroyed its prior form.
>>12496958>clearly someone in Japan likes the ideas presented in that game.Yeah. Miyamoto.
>>12496973The rpgs are filled with those enemies.
>>12496981It was a Mario game from the start, even if it didn't end up featuring Mario in it(which it likely would have anyway) since it was designed to be a succesor specifically to SMB, but trying something new and different with the concept (vertical platforming stages).
>>12497313>It was a Mario game from the start, even if it didn't end up featuring Mario in itDo you really believe the contradictions you write?
>>12497330Considering its from the devs mouths themselves, yes.
>>12497330He's right. The game's development went something like this:>developers build first prototype for Mario 3>it's a janky vertical-scroller like the first level of Kid Icarus>developers learn this REALLY don't work and try reworking it into a sidescroller with vertical sections>after building a couple levels, the developers decide they've learned what they needed from it and are ready to just scrap it and start over>Nintendo enters a Fuji TV deal around the same time and need a cross-promotion game>Miyamoto goes "hey, we've got this Mario 3 build we were about to scrap. Why not just finish it and use it as the promotional game?"And that's how Doki Doki Panic was born.
>>12496940No, it was that way in Doki Doki Panic, not Mario USA. Really, it's a Dinosaur that spits out eggs, Yoshi lays eggs, they are clearly not human and not beholden to mammal based gender norms.
>>12497404The Super Mario Bros USA manual also retains it (and the erroneous labeling of it as "Ostro").
