Nintendo:>combines CPU, both PPUs, and support chips into a single ASIC chipAnons:>THIS IS THE BEST SNES EVAR!!1!1! IT HAS CRISP VISUALS, ITS THE BEST ONE!!!Sega:>Combine multiple chips into ASICs, getting close to a singular chip design in later models, and release it as the "Genesis 2"Anons:>That's the one I had when I was a kid! That's a real GenesisSNK/Plaion>Combine the Motorola 68000, Zilog Z80, and Yamaha YM2610 chips into ASIC chips for the Neogeo AES+Anons:THATS NOT A REAL NEOGEO!!1!1! ITS BASICALLY JUST THE MISTER CORE, ITS NOT EVEN REAL SILICONE!1!1!Let's be honest, most of you guys are faggots and don't know anything about technology. A few of you are alright.
based and logic pilled
>>12517897>Combine the Motorola 68000, Zilog Z80, and Yamaha YM2610 chips into ASIC chips for the Neogeo AES+First I’m hearing about this, where you get the info
>>12517897No one gives a shit. Just play the fucking games, you schizo freak.
>>12517897SNK already did some of that work back in the day. Later revisions of the MVS used chips originally built for the Neo Geo CD which were combined together to cut costsFor example, here's a later chip that incorporates the Z80 and YM2610 into a single chip used in the CDZ and some MVS boards
The one chip models have some differences that affect the behavior of a couple of games. Nothing too major though.
>>12518095The specs for the console + the product description for the AES+.
>>12518158See? So the argument that it's not real hardware is retarded.
>>12518168>oh no when there are exactly 89 sprites on screen and their y positions align perfectly, the bottom right corner 37th sprite renders as cyan instead of light blueI think that is ok
>>12518218Hate when that happens, immersion ruined
>>12518172The product description doesn't say that though?
>>12518168I seem to remember Mega Man X3 as one that acted slightly weird.
>>12517897if it's not an mvs,aes,cd-rom version then it's not a real neogeo. modern day fpga remakes are cancer. >>12518218>it's ok for a brand new fpga device to be broken>just wait for the update, guys! ;)embarrassing
>>12518238It's not FPGA and FPGA is not bad, you've got to stop trolling
>>12517897I don't consider any of those things real consoles.
>>12518241oh! my mistake. it's asic! wooowee. that changes nothing! similar shit except nobody from the original snk is involved in the hardware and it's just a saudi corporation shilling trash to the internet's dumbest of fucking retards. if it's not by the original snk corporation then it's still not real hardware no matter how hard you suck on saudi cocks.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misk_Foundation#Video_Games
>>12518258That literally doesn't matter if they have the original schematics to use to develop the ASICs
>>12518261>original schematicsthey don't even have the source codes for their original games as far as people are aware and there's only a few instances of neogeo development systems that exist so for these saudis to have original schematics for an asic, that's decades out of date and would be unsuitable for modern usage, and using it? you're legitimately fucking stupid, anon. and how the fuck would they have "schematics" for a chip snk didn't even design themselves? they contracted this shit out, you useless faggot. they just stuck their fucking logo on it.
>>12518267>you're legitimately fucking stupid, anonCool anon, I guess decapping IC's is pointless
>>12518270>Anon slapped me like a whore so I will just ramble on about decapping an IC>Somehow that's relevant to the conversation You have no idea what you are talking about on this subject. stick to bingbingwahoo shit, you clueless rambling faggot.
>>12518302>Such an angry little boy that thinks he knows what he's talking about telling others they don'tPure anti-intellectualismIf I contract someone to make me a chip, you think I'm not taking a copy of the schematics?Get the fuck out of here with dumbass trolling shit>Unsuitable for modern usageGod you are a dumbass
>>12518258There are a fair number weebs in Saudi Arabia. It comes across as jealousy when a Saudi weeb buys out a company demands quality. The Koreans just cheapened the SNK name. The so called modernization of SNK was soulless, bland, with the Koreans.And yes all mini consoles and rereleased consoles should be AIOs, no matter the cost. Don't want ARM + emulation. Don't want FPGA.It is a shame with the cartridges being flash, but I suppose that is inevitable. Even Nintendo moved to flash back in 2004. What would be interesting is if the flash cart can work in an OG AES and vise verse.
>>12518339>It is a shame with the cartridges being flashHow do you know this?
>>12518339>It is a shame with the cartridges being flashHow much does that really matter?Let's look at a real Neo Geo game. Here's the graphics PCB for Garou, which is one of the games they'll be releasing. See the big chip in the middle? That's a Toshiba TC190G ASIC which handles decryption of the graphics data, because the ROMs themselves are encrypted to prevent bootlegging. The Neo Geo itself doesn't even directly interface with the ROM chips.As a matter of fact, there's decrypted ROMs of Garou available these days, which is likely what they'll use to avoid having to recreate the decryption chip. So does NOT having the ASIC make it less legit now? Does it actually matter if it's Mask ROMs or Flash? There's even a few examples of legit old Neo Geo games with Flash and even EPROM chips on them.
>>12518460Here's an example of flash chips. Some early revisions of Metal Slug 3 shipped with this monstrosity in place of some of the ROM chips.
>>12518464And of course when talking about the guts of Neo Geo carts, you have to talk about Puzzle Bobble.It's an entirely official legit Neo Geo game from the mid-90's but it only ever shipped as an aftermarket converted cart of Power Spikes 2. So you have a combination of Puzzle Bobble-specific Mask ROMs, EPROMs, and leftover Power Spikes 2 ROMs.
>>12518476And I forget the damn picture.
>>12517897Write like a normal person and stop making people up in your head thinking they all say the same thing.
>>12518224It literally does
>>12518238It's not FPGA, and it won't be possible to update this.>>12518258See the OP>>12518339>It is a shame with the cartridges being flashYou just made that up. Nobody knows if they're flash or not.
>>12518995>it won't be possible to update this.Thats not a good thing in this case.
>>12518989It literally doesn’t
>>12519028Yes it literally fucking does
>>12519018Wasn't a problem when Sega or Nintendo did it. Wasn't a problem when SNK did it in the 90s. It's not going to be a problem today.>>12518267>how the fuck would they have "schematics" for a chip snk didn't even design themselvesGee, I sure wonder!
>>12519049It's probably the same die but shrunk to a smaller, more modern node size.
>>12519059The chips are being recreated via ASIC chips
>>12517897Pretty good thread tho
>>12518247I guess an NES isn't a real console since it combined some chips used on the original Famicom PCB.
>>12519081They never combined anything, it was always the same setup on every console every produced.
>>12519093It wasn't. Look at the square button Famicom PCB vs the later revisions.
>>12519093correct it was always CPU, PPU, SRAM, SRAM, TTL, plus the CIC chip on NES.
>>12519104https://forums.nesdev.org/viewtopic.php?t=16764>In the AV Famicom and rare revised NES Top Loaders, Nintendo replaced three chips, a 74LS139 and two 74HC368s, with a single 32-pin chip designated BU3266 or BU3270.
>>12519104Why does this model have less chips?
>>12519049>combine all chips into oneI see you are moving goal posts
>>12519081Yes. I don't consider revisions to be the same and they are ALWAYS inferior.
>>12517897>THIS IS THE BEST SNES EVAR!!1!1! IT HAS CRISP VISUALS, ITS THE BEST ONE!!!The SHVC also had better picture quality than the muddy-looking GPM but it was also unreliable like initial hardware revisions tend to be (initial Famicom, PS1, and PS2 were all lemons).
>>12519149I'm literally not
>>12517897>SNK/PlaionNo one has seen the guts of the AES+ though. Why are you already whiteknighting it? Really gets the jollies jumping
>>12518460Well for one thing flash doesn't last as long
>>12519631The flash chips used in modern games are meant to retain data for several decades at a minimum.
>>12519056>retarded moron thinks this is the original snk schematic for the asic>because having a reverse engineered photo created in 2013 is 1:1 identical to having the asic files to build a complete chip using 1990s technologyit's amazing how fucking stupid you are. snk didn't build the original chip. they stuck their logo on it. much like the saudis are doing now, they have to contract that work out. it really makes your prolapsing asshole twitch with rage that you're shilling trash on behalf of some trash saudi corporation that only owns a name and some ip. lmao.
>>12519645these fucking morons on this board seriously believe this saudi owned version of neogeo are going to reproduce $500+ double PCB carts and only sell them for $80! giving saudis money is better than owning ROMs for MAME!11
>>12519645Fine but if you're paying $90 a pop you'd probably want the high quality mask roms like back in the day
>>12519690>are going to reproduce $500+ double PCBThey should though
>>12519697not going to happen
>>12519119if that is a top loader, iirc they removed the CIC (lockout chip) on those.
>>12519690It wouldn't cost anywhere near $500 to make those carts today. ROM prices are a fraction of what they were in the 90s.
>>12519502Nowhere does it say they are combined into a single chip anon it just says it's using ASICs
>>12519770I never claimed they combined it into a single chip. I said that they combined the chips into ASICs. You're making up shit to get offended over.>>12519738Especially if you're making them at scale. If using mask ROMs and producing at scale, eqfh cartridge shouldn't cost any more than about $5 to make.
>>12519712It's a Japanese AV Famicom, which has less chips than the red and white Famicom because they combined two of the chips into a single ASIC chip.
>>12519690The Saudi's aren't making this, the Austrians are and this isn't their first rodeo.
>>12519842>I never claimed they combined it into a single chip>I said that they combined the chipsAnon, please stop
>>12519842Wait, that other bozo ITT said that mask rom carts would cost $500 to make? I heard that after a few thousand units, mask roms are pretty economical to manufacture
>>12519848>The Saudi's aren't making thissaudis own neogeo. doesn't matter if a billion swedes were making it. it's a saudi producthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misk_Foundation#Video_Games
>>12519842>If using mask ROMs and producing at scale, eqfh cartridge shouldn't cost any more than about $5 to make.if you were selling millions of units, making the carts yourself, charging license fees. sure. outside of that schizo fantasy of yours? lmao. no. not happening. making mask roms, including the pcbs and plastic shells is insanely expensive on a smaller scale. and if they're using the same design of original neogeo (where the carts used two pcbs loaded with chips) it would still cost as much as an original neogeo cart in the $500+ new - not $80. this is why everyone is expecting tiny flash chips. and it makes no difference between the two. the only people that can't cope with this prospect are dumbfuck retards and shills trying to sell trash to idiots.
>>12519894>when you keep getting destroyed in every one of your shill threads: the cope postnot a good day for the schizo. >said that mask rom carts would cost $500 to make? it's what it would be sold for, not what it would cost to make. you really are fucking stupid, aren't you? not having a good day at all. i'm sorry nobody is clapping and cheering for yet another piece of shit asic/fpga remake not even made by the original creators. have you tried making up the same stories on reddit? or is /vr/ the only place where you can find people dumber than you to believe your bullshit?
>>12520017>it's what it would be sold for, not what it would cost to makeHow much would it cost to make, say, at 10k units?
>>12519979Oh look it's the assembly language LARPer.
>>12520090Around $10 per unit
>>12520507Oh look it's the local schizophrenic that accuses everyone of being this "larper" when they are smarter than him. what happened schizo? smarter people destroyed your shill thread and now there's nothing left? that's a shame. you're a prime example of mental illness and the result of leaving school at yr7.
>>12519645Original Neo Geo carts are notorious for having broken or corrupted ROM chips. The custom chips are all also well known to fail, and it is in fact very common to see carts where the encrypted PCBs have been replaced by a non-encrypted PCB full of DIY'd EPROMs with the decrypted ROM data on them.
>>12520090hard to say. there's a lot of overheads involved. if neogeo were making the same carts that they sold 30 something years ago that sold for hundreds, cost of manufacture of all the roms, boards, shell, ~$100 of the cart, and they made a lot of carts. you couldn't do it economically for any less than $100. 10k units? double/triple that price. they weren't cheap to make. people forget how massive they are as well.
>>12520675It's 2026 anon, you know very well that shit costs cents nowThe only expensive thing would be the initial cost of plastic moulding
>>12518460I've seen no evidence that the Atari 7800+ games use flash, its the same company and even if it does that just means you can put your own games on it. I have some of the games but you have to peel the label to open it up. From the scheduling times of the carts and delays I feel they are using real mask roms.>>12517897I don't care, buying it anyway for the white shell, controller and memory card. No one knows, if could range from faithfully created chips based on original SNK documentation to just a simple Mister rip. Some Mister guys are helping with this anyway so they are probably using at least part of it. In the end its a semi mass produced new console dedicated to 2D graphics.Forgot about the console, what about way cheaper memory cards, controllers and the games. How hacking and cutting them up and it doesn't matter because they are new, stuff like making them work on Dreamcast or Genesis.>>12520507A pcb itself from pcb way would probably be $20. Maybe if they have a van outside the factory ready to pickup the game. The SNES mini was for poor people, this is for the rest of us, if you want the cheapest thing possible then don't complain when you get another arm emulator.
>>12520681i said "IF" they were, and i know they're not. but anons can't seem to wrap their mind around how they're not going to get the same shit as the 1980s and they're just paying $80 or something for a same copy of a game they got in MAME but flash or mask rom! and asic! wow! asic! that's only been around for.. decades. wow. and whatever other advertising nonsense etc.etc. all this neogeo talk makes me want to give money to the saudis where they will no doubt use it to sponsor various anti-west terror groups.
>>12519979>including the pcbs and plastic shells is insanely expensive on a smaller scale161 in 1 banana carts cost somewhere between 80 and 200 bucks brand new depending on where you're buying from and when, and they are infinitely more complex with much more memory than any single game board.Neo Geo cart shells for both AES and MVS are already readily produced at scale for bootlegs, though quality varies. The PCBs cost fuck all as well, thanks to todays sponsor PCBWay.As for the price of memory, drop-in compatible EPROMs aren't really available new, and Mask ROMs require massive purchase quantities with per-customer price quotes. But flash-based replacements like 29F800 cost around 3 bucks a pop on Mouser. Somewhere between 16 and 4 chips per game, would be around 50 bucks max for memory.There's some additional chips in a lot of the games but those can be easily replaced with cheap alternatives, and any encryption or anti-piracy chip would just be omitted anyways.You could DIY your own bootleg of most Neo Geo games for under 200 bucks a pop if you really wanted, all material costs included. In no fucking universe would it cost 500 bucks to make a Neo Geo bootleg today, especially not once the economies of scale kick in.
>>12520704>In no fucking universe would it cost 500 bucks to make a Neo Geo bootleg today,no anon said what it would be sold for, and they were sold for that.
>>12520696I’ve never seen someone be so confidently wrong on here before
>>12519645About a decade of non-operation before phantom loss. You can't shelf flash for archival purposes. Some flash damage can be remediated if you have an archived copy. This is kinda a new thing because collectors are finding their DS games dead because they sat in a box for almost a decade.Don't put your backups on flash. Use something else. Maybe restoring will be an option in the future. Today restoration of original flash cartridges isn't very accessible.
>>12517897The difference here is that the SNES 1CHIP model has benefits over the original, whereas the others (AES+ remains to be seen) were generally a downgrade.That said, the SNES 1CHIP does have its downsides, and for some, even the benefits can be seen as a negative. I personally like the softness of the older models, and I find the dirty ghost-smear thing on the 1CHIP to look like dogshit, especially in games like SMW where it is very apparent.
>>12520783>This is kinda a new thing because collectors are finding their DS games dead because they sat in a box for almost a decade.DS games use mask ROMs they're not Flash.
>>12520812A Neo Geo console doesn't get that hot, only arcade MVSes really need heat sinks.
>>12520767>gets treated like a prostitute for the entire thread because he knows nothing about electronics or economics>posts nothing to prove anon wrongsee you in the next shill thread, dangerously low iq schizo, that thinks people in 2026 are going to remake the same electronics created in the 1980s using a photocopied and reverse engineered spec sheet downloaded off the internet>>12519056>Gee, I sure wonder!absolutely clueless
>>12519056>Wasn't a problem when Sega or Nintendo did it.Those were not ASICs, and in fact it was indeed a problem, the launch-model Famicoms had a flaw in the PPU that caused them to overheat.
>>12519690>double PCB>double PCB>OMG double PCB!!!Shut the fuck up already you retard, I see you bringing up this ignorant nonsense in every thread about this thing. PCBs are not some insane special expensive thing to produce, I have custom-ordered my own for some of my projects before and generally get them in batches of 5 or 10 even when I only need 1 because it's cheaper that way, and they only cost me a few bucks unless I do something crazy that even top-end modern electronics don't do.Producing two PCBs instead of one is going to be pennies more, not some insane unreachable task. You can also stop quoting that $500 pricepoint, since you seem to be too stupid to understand that those were 90s prices, back when solid state storage was small and expensive. These days you can get a chip smaller than your thumbnail that holds several dozen gigabytes for less than your broke-ass meal at McDonalds. People working as indie devs out of their garage are able to print their games on maskroms for less, and you think that a major company with the ability to afford an ASIC-based system is going to be unable to make a "OMGWTGBBQ DOUBLE PCB!!!!!!!!" without charging more than DOUBLE what the console will cost? You're terminally retarded if you think that.
>>12521829calm down austerit's not that serious
>>12522116>the launch-model Famicoms had a flaw in the PPU that caused them to overheatNot a "flaw" per se, the die size was too big so they did a couple of die shrinks to fix the overheating issue (this was also necessary to improve yields and lower prices). The initial ZX Spectrums had a similar issue with a hot ULA that was fixed with a die shrink.
>>12517897
>>12522593it's typical to use the largest available node size for custom chips since they're complicated and it makes starting production of them and working out any flaws in the chip easier. Once you have the design down pat it can be shrunk to improve yields and lower the manufacturing cost.
