What made it so much worse than 1-3?
I'll tell you after this boss health bar finishes filling up.
>>125373514 was better than 3 but worse than 2
>>12537351they'd pretty much run through all their boss ideas and the logic of what beats what was thrown out the window.
>>12537351It was so well-balanced that it ultimately didn't stand out among the other NES games in any way whatsoever.
>>12537351charge shot
2>1>>>4>3
The charge shot is neat, but it's too strong. Also the game drags on.
>>12537351It wasn't. I don't know why people pretend like there's some huge quality gap between the classic games when most of them are fine at worst.
all the two castle games suckin fact, all castles suck
>>12537394Yeah this is how I see it. Everything in the game is pretty good, doesn't have any glaring flaws like boobeam boss or top spin but it also doesn't have anything outstanding. Even the music is all just pretty good.
>>12537351It's the same situation with all of the 2D Super Mario games after SMW. They used all of the most interesting power-ups in the earlier games and for some reason were autistically set on not just reusing them in later games, so they just had to use whatever half assed ideas they could come up with and then build the games around those lesser ideas.If every game after Mega Man 2 used a mix of new power-ups and the best of the old ones, they would have been 10x better games. You don't just dump the good ideas. You keep them and build on them.
>>125373514 is the best classic Mega Man gamesick of 2fags and 3fags thinking that the one they played as a kid on the NES was the best one
>1MM4 is a hell of a lot better than 1.>22 is the normie meme pick and it's way too easy.>33 is the contrarian pick. The game actually fucking blows. It's unfinished and unbalanced as hell.4 is the first one that just got everything right. That makes it 'boring' apparently.
As long as it’s understood that 5 and 6 are the worst.
>>12537351The charged buster was a bad addition to the series.
>>12537397>>12537685It's this, having to mash the shot button was a core mechanic of the first three games.
>>12537587just kys at this point man
>>125373513 is fucking awful. I just did a replay of it and I had forgotten how awful it ran, how shit the bosses were, how it pads it with that Doc Robot bullshit and fuck Break Man
>>12537659This but I like MM1 a lot. It's very simple and the formula at its absolute core with no dressing, while having pretty solid platforming challenges.2 is pretty good and improves on 1 in several ways, but Metal Blade is so poorly thought out that it brings the entire game down.3 is such a goddamn mess.4 is an awesome game that's underappreciated for having later on, not to mention the divisiveness of the charge shot. Personally I like it and there's a good reason why it stuck around for virtually every Mega Man game and series afterwards, excluding 9/10 (sort of) which were explicitly trying to aim for a specific brand of nostalgia for better or for worse. The stages/bosses are fun and not too easy nor too hard, weapon selection is decent, and it's baffling it's not remembered as an instant classic alongside the first three. Hell I don't have that much against 5 or 6 either other than being too easy and the classics feeling slightly played out by that point up until 7 gave them a refresh.
>>12537918>and it's baffling it's not remembered as an instant classic alongside the first three.It was released after the SNES. That's the ONLY reason.
This is one of the stronger classic games. I have it ahead of 1, 2, and 3. I've read reviews and sentiments from people who believe 2/3 > 4 and I'm not convinced by their arguments. Every time I marathon these games, 4 plays better than those. I feel 2 and 3 benefit from their flaws being seen as part of the "charm" of the games. 4 removes them and thus lacks "charm" to those people.
>>125379394 adds a very major flaw in the entire second half of the game having to be done in one sitting.
>>12537389>>12537582Yeah, they used up all the simple, memorable Robot Master ideas in 1 and 2. By 3 and 4 it just felt like they were pulling random ideas out of a hat.
>>12537389>>12537980...you guys know that bosses in Mega Man 2 through 8 come from designs submitted by fans for boss design contests and not from the devs themselves, right?
>MM4 worse than 1-3No. MM4 = MM3 > MM6 > MM5 > MM2 > MM1.>inb4 mm3 doc robots/unfinished It's still a great game. MM3 and MM4 are tied for the best in terms of fun and challenge. If you don't have fun playing them, that's a You problem, people are too cynical when it comes to Mega Man these days. They're all good, but 3 and 4 will always be at the top.
>>12537582That doesn't even make sense, nor is it accurate. I know NSMB gets shit on a lot, but NSMBU is an excellent game with tight platforming, decent challenge, and great mechanics. Mega Man 9 is legit the best MM game of all time, and MM10 is very good too. MM11 is also excellent.I know those aren't retro, but you implies later entries couldn't be good because all good ideas were used up, and that's simply not true.
>>12538037You're coping. No one on this planet would put any of the NSMB games on the same level of SMB3 or SMW. Just because they're passable doesn't mean they're memorable or great in any way. "Good enough" is the highest possible aspiration for any one of them.>Mega Man 9They had 20 years to think up something new so that's not the same.
>>12538045>You're coping. No one on this planet would put any of the NSMB games on the same level of SMB3 or SMW. Just because they're passable doesn't mean they're memorable or great in any way. I think that's a fair statement desu. I still think that NSMBU is probably a better-constructed game than SMW, but it doesn't evoke nostalgia, and it's too much of a retread of previous NSMB games so people tend to lump it in with the rest and treat it as if it has the same flaws as those entries, even though it's a much tighter experience.>They had 20 years to think up something new so that's not the same.You're implying that they spent 20 years sitting around planning the game, which is just demonstrably false.
4 is the best of the original 6>perfect middle ground of the series>charge shot is well balanced, all weapons have uses and are good to use; unlike 5 and 6>doesn't have any glaring issue or 'that part' moment unlike 1,2,3A couple of bosses are lame, like Toad Man, but that's about it. I would say there is a bit of a lack of projectile based enemies compared to some others but it's not something you'll notice unless you've played each game a dozen+ times
>>12538045>No one on this planet would put any of the NSMB games on the same level of SMB3 or SMWlollollolNSMBU is genuinely good. Better than SMW and only worse than Wonder and SMB3.
>>12538056I've 100%d NSMBU and barely remember it. NSLU was a lot better imo. It was a unique idea and more challenging but in a fun way.I'd probably rank the 3DS one as the best personally.
>>12537981Yes, as Capcom admitted they redesigned Skullmans stage to fit his theme. Meaning WHOOPS, they designed the stages and then picked the contest winners. That's clearly a bullshit way to make a game.
>>12538067You realize that the redesign probably only involved art elements, right? The stage could've used placeholder tiles/hazards and they just painted bone themes over them. Your argument is flawed.
>>12538082ppffttttt. Not at all. If you don't get what this means not worth explaining it.
>>12537351the level design is overall superior, but what ruins the game and makes it worse than at least 2 and 3 are the damage sponge bosses that also do insane amount of contact damage
>>12538183>I disagree and I will not have explain myself therefore I win the argument!I don't know, you kind of sound like a brainlet.NES stages have 4 physical design elements:>background elements>visual design>enemy placement>level construction and tile placement The first two are visual only. They don't affect gameplay.The third is often level-dependent, but Skullman's stage doesn't really have any theme-specific enemies, except for, I guess, bats.The fourth element can be designed entirely with placeholder elements. Nothing suggests the physical layout of the level was completely redesigned after a contest result. That wouldn't even make sense from a design or planning perspective.
>>12538220>but Skullman's stage doesn't really have any theme-specific enemiesIt has the skull enemies throwing bones, the ones that revive unless you use a charge shot
>>12538246Do they feel out of place in the level and/or compromise the level design?
>>12537685Yup. It's annoying (always holding the button down and the fucking sound) and takes away from the fast paced action. It's also buggy in 4 in screen transitions.
4 > 6 > &Bass > 7 > 5 > 2 > 3 > 1 > 8
>>12538309what make you rate &Bass so highly
>>125373514>3>1>2>6>5Nothing went wrong, maybe the slow bar refills but it's very minor and there is a romhack for that. Boss design, level design, OST, and subweapon use/balance are all top notch in 4.
>>12537460
>>12538451It's a great game full of cool ideas. The levels all have intesting gimmicks and so do the bosses. It's fun to blast through the game as Bass and playing as Mega Man forces you think and to engage more with the levels and weapons. The level select tree and the shop are the best implementations of those things in the post-NES games. There some beginners traps but once you've played the game once that's a non issue.
>>12537942The flaw there is that all fortress passwords take you back to the start, something present since the first game and that Capcom decided to carry on to nearly every single fucking game.
>>12537351Two castles and the password only takes you to Cossack's castle. Made beating it kind of annoying since it took a lot longer to accomplish.
>>12537389Even MM3 dropped the paper rock scissors logic of the robots and their weapons.Use magnets to defeat the punch guy, then use fists to beat top guy, then spin like a retard to defeat ninja guy, then clearly shurikens are the weakness of a giant spark plug, everybody knows snakes hate electricity...At least in MM2 you could figure shit out. Bubbles are water, water works on the fire guy. Use fire on the wood guy, or saw blades too. Use the freezing thing on the speedy guy.
>>12537582>for some reason were autistically set on not just reusing them in later gamesI never really understood why there was some need to reinvent the wheel with every new Mario game to the point of making a lot of powerups that were mostly useless or only helpful in a single situation. I don't see what's wrong with Fire flower, raccoon tail, tanuki suit as an advanced version of tail. Maybe a fun wildcard or two in late levels. That works.
>>12538860Miyamoto is obsessed with stamping his feet and insisting that games in general can't be too similar to each other, you have to have some major change that makes them feel inherently different to justify one being made. But Mario is a series where the formula is pretty much set in stone, especially by now, thus necessitating aspects like superfluous power ups or awful mechanics that aren't useful at all instead of refining the good ideas that are already there. Same reason why we can't get a new F-Zero, it would simply be "more of the same" without some extraneous bullshit splattered on top.
>>12538848The levels felt way more themed too. Airman's stage, bubblemans, they felt very connected to their element. I don't think I could tell you what hardman or dustmans stages look like, probably very generic sameish as too many others.
>>12537351same thing that made literally every successive game in the series not as good as 1-3: charge buster makes it so theres no fucking point to using 90% of the weapons ever, not even in boss battlesalso you cant tell the weaknesses intuitively since all the powers are fucking retarded
>>12537582the worst is when they DID bring em back, but they were worse. i forget if it was 4 or 5, but the ring weapon in that one is literally just a much shittier version of the metal shot from 2
>>12538275yea exactly fucks the music upwhich imo is unforgivable in a MM game.
There’s a jump in the level after you finish the robot stages that is really hard.
>>12538050>>12538037Shut up tranny smith, you dont play games.
>>12539294What? The ring has nothing in common with Metal Blade other than the color you wear. The shuriken from 3 is the closest thing.
>>12538580the game does have very strong level design, but king's fortress 2, burner man and dynamo man (their boss battles, not the stages) ruin the entire game and bring down the rating to 1/5
