Technically more powerful and cheaper than the PlayStation 2. How?
>>12541998The perks of not having to pay for DVD license.
>>12541998>and cheaperThat was accomplished through the magic of "oh fuck, oh fuck no one is buying it, sell it for dirt cheap and we'll try and make our money back on the games!!!". Sony had no reason to drop the price when it was so heavily outselling GameCube at the higher price point, no sense in leaving money on the table.
>>12541998>Technically more powerful than the PlayStation 2.Never happened
>>12541998>more powerfulFor multiport games, for the most part, slightly, since most games prefer high CPU clock speed rather than floating point compute GPU fillrate. But otherwise no. Games that were developed natively on PS2 that pushed the limits of the hardware, such as True Crime NYC and Wreckless, looked and ran like shit on GC. GC had poor floating power performance, practically no programmable GPU, and the filrate is quite low despite the higher screen resolution. On the other hand, PS2 could handle all the games built for GC, despite running them at slightly lower framerate due to lack of proper optimization. Yeah PS2's hardware is quite difficult to be taken full advantage of, not good for multiports firstly developed elsewhere. Gamecube and XBox practically are PC hardware. >cheaper Most likely not. 1T-SRAM was new and probably not cheap either. The GPU had embedded DRAM, no different from PS2's. Outsourcing CPU and GPU to IBM and ATI would also be more expensive than Sony's proprietary MIPS chips, even if Sony's chips utilize bigger die area.
>>12542261>such as True Crime NYCIf that's the best PS2 can do then the hardware is obviously inferior.
>>12542478Have you never seen it? It straight up looks like an early Xbox 360 title. Dynamic shadow mapping, light reflections, snow and papers flying all over the screen, depth of field, huge colorful city with incredible details, I'd say it looks better than GTA 4, or at least the art style works better. The GC port lost the shading, light reflections, and much of the details, while also running much worse. RE4 PS2 port is leaps and bounds more playable than that.>If that's the best PS2 can doWhat's the best GC can do? Rebel Strike? True Crime NYC does everything that game did and more, while also running a much heavier and more complex simulation. Rebel Strike also "cheated" by making far distance objects 2D. Demon Chaos on PS2 did the same trick, but to render hundredfolds more objects on screen than Rebel Strike.
>>12541998Efficacy vs brute force. Gamecube was just built smarter
>>12541998SHITCUBE
>>12542553True Grime looks and runs like absolute garbage on every platform. Fucking horrendous excuse for a game. RE4 on GCN looks way more like a 360 title than that actual junk.
>>12542261Wreckless was an OG Xbox game initially what are you talking about
>>12542571THE DISC LOOK LIKE CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES
Every GameCube games could work on PS2Shadow of the Colossus could never work on GameCube
>>12542659>Every GameCube games could work on PS2After massively downgrading every aspect. Ports from PS2 to Gamecube were never as disastrous, unless it was some western slop company. But those don't count since they can't make games for shit anyway.
>>12542607>RE4A setpiece shooter with no more than a dozen enemies running around a tiny area with backdrops looks better than an open world game that simulates the busiest city in the US? Color me shocked. Nah dude it doesn't even have dynamic shading even tho it's a much smaller game. That ranks it below Silent Hill games. If we're to judge smaller games, Stuntman looks better than anything on GC. Insane graphics and downright unreal physics simulations for a 6th gen game. >>12542625The engine and assets were rebuilt for PS2, and GC's port was based on that.
>>12542663True Grime looked like garbage on release and it looks like garbage now. I have no idea why this game suddenly is being brought up in the 2020's as impressive in any way.
Ps2 had classic after classicGamecube had Luigi's 4 hour tech demo, the worse 3d Mario, pikmin which is a lol rts I genuinely have no idea how it has fans, and a Zelda game that wasn't even completed with half of the game being triforce passing.It's weird the n64 gets shit for its library all the time which yeah it's a small one but least some of it is good
>>12542668this guy is weird because he only dislikes it because the gamecube port is bad. He'll say gta is better but he also hates gta because he only likes nintendo games so it's all a farcical act from a non-serious loser.
>>12542661>Ports from PS2 to Gamecube were never as disastrousThey never happened Where are MGS 3,Silent hill 3 or FF12 on GameCube ?They don't exist because GameCube (and Xbox) weak CPU couldn't handle itSilent 2 and 4 ported to Xbox (with downgrade)Silent Hill 3 not ported ,weird isn't it?
>>12542682>They don't exist because GameCube (and Xbox) weak CPU couldn't handle itThat's not even close to reality.
>>12542661>Ports from PS2 to Gamecube were never as disastrous, unless it was some western slop company.Western slop company like the devs of Wreckless? Most western slop ports run worse on PS2 than gamecube. Matrix, Time Splitters, NFSU, etc. PS2 had double the CPU ALUs of GC and Xbox, powerful vector processing, and filrate far superior to both. These devs didn't properly use those to their advantage. With that many ALUs the PS2 could hyperthread graphics components, physics, and other simulations, like the giants' hair layers in Shadows of Colossus. Most multiport games weren't built to maximally utilize PS2's hardware.
6th gen saved /vr/, I'm so glad the rule change happened!
>>12542708If you're smart enough you can tell it's the same people who argue about n64 vs ps1 and genesis vs snes.
>>12542717Right so the rule change gave them even more cw fodder
>>12542724It's weird you never post this in auster threads.
>>12542189>Never happenedResident Evil 4 you tard
>>12542261Just because third parties didn't want to put in the work(rightfully so due to the sales numbers)doesn't mean the system was weaker.
>>12541998>Can't even make the faces equalStupid Game Cuboid/Rectangular Prism
>>12542189Look up the specs, this is a well documented fact. There is no room for argument, you are just choosing to be incorrect because...?
>>12544421GC was the much easier console to work it. Its hardware is very straightforward, the GPU doesn't need to do anything fancy, and there's plenty of CPU cache to compensate for inefficient programming.I didn't say GC is necessarily weaker. It just depends on what kind of game you're trying to make for it. PS2 is just better at multitasking and brute forcing graphics elements around.
>>12544546>Look up the specs, this is a well documented fact. There is no room for argumentDevelopers who actually worked on both systems have repeatedly disagreed with that assertion.
>>12544574>bad devs can't use the console to the full potentialWow
>>12544574Why are GODcube haters so obsessed with LARPing forum posts?
>>12544546>Look up the specsThe CPU specs:+ 486MHz vs 300MHz + out-of-order vs in-order execution+ 320KB total cache vs 40KB total CPU cache (although each vector processor (VU0 & VU1) has its own cache)- 2x32-bit registers for 32-bit instructions vs 2x64-bit registers for 32, 64, and 128-bit instructions - processes 64-bit floating point values vs up to 128-bit - 1.9 GFLOPs vs over 3 GFLOPs total CPU computeGPU specs is more tricky to compare, since PS2 with VU0 and VU1 combined can technically push WAY more polys than GC's GPU, but PS2 has a shared memory for GPU compute and small internal cache, making graphics programming a lot more tricky, and the EDRAM is only for raster, while GC enjoys fully dedicated VRAM for both compute and raster. Also some PS2 games use VU0 to aid with CPU tasks like physics.
i laugh everytime people say the ps2 was more powerful than the gamecube. literally just look at the games. i respect the ps2 as a solid console and it probably has a better library if you were to stack up the good games on each console (ps2 has truckloads of shovelware people would need to navigate around purchasing though) im sure the ps2 has a niche advantage in some category as most consoles back then excelled in different things due to experimental architecture. but the gamecube is overwhelmingly stronger and more well rounded. ps2 games also had some kind of obfuscation-a shit filter or something between you and the graphics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olWS4Iglv5A
>>12544585>I'm incapable of critical and analytical thinkingWe know.
>>12542176Shit taste
>>12544576>>12544578>zero argumentsI accept your respective concessions.
>>12544620Yup, yup, yup, that's my hero right there.
>>12544601>>12544620Where are the games that look better than GameCube games though?
>>12544625some ps2 fans are just unhinged. they won the console war in sales but cant concede that the other consoles did some stuff better than the ps2. its like some guy winning the most gold medals at the olympics but seething that there were events that they sucked at other people outdid them during, and 25 years later they still get mad.relative to the time period, ps2 games look really rough and primitive, cheap honestly. but really good devs worked around it and still made some decent looking games. i love the gamecube and defend it where it deserves it, but its not even my favorite of that gen. mine is the xbox.
>>12544625Well, let's go genre by genre and choose the best-looking game for each between the PS2 and GameCube.Hack and slash: God of War 2 (PS2)FPS: Black (PS2)Fighting game: Soul Calibur 3 (PS2)Arcade Racer: Burnout Revenge (PS2)Sim Racer: Gran Turismo 4 (PS2)Stealth: Metal Gear Solid 3 (PS2)Horror: Silent Hill 3 (PS2)Action RPG: Rogue Galaxy (PS2)Jarpig: Final Fantasy XII (PS2)Open world: The Getaway (PS2)Platformer: Klonoa 2 (PS2)Sports: Who caresFlight game: Rogue Leader (GameCube)I make that 11-1 in favor of PS2 with one tie.
>>12544797>FPS: Black (PS2)Literal brown n bloom the game. Looks absolutely horrendous.
>>12542659Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles could never work on the PS2.
>>12541998Smaller cheaper disc drive
>>12544625the list is immeasurable. all cubies have is the capcom 5 cope
>>12541998>cheaperstuck inventory>Technically more powerfulJust on paper
>>12544918Jesus christ, Xbox can do so much with so little memory bandwidth. What a fucking gigachad. Literal god console.
>>12545129Left are the CPU specs. The Xbox is just a regular PC that delegates most of the graphics stuff to the GPU.While the PS2 was a hybrid abomination. Reason why Gran Turismo 4 runs at 60 fps and Forza only at 30 Fps. Sony chose technology over raw power. The end result shows.
>>12545165the fuck, the xbox couldn't even run it's premier racing sim at 60fps?
>>12545165>Left are the CPU specs.Not quite. GFLOPS is floating point math crunching performance. Yes, how fast the CPU can crunch numbers. Not how fast it can read and manipulate data around (fetch, decode, and execute). PS2 is really fast at the former while Xbox is much faster at the latter. "Mem Bus Bandwidth" isn't CPU specs. It's how much data the can be fed into the CPU/GPU per second. Xbox has the least bandwidth among the three consoles, it only has a 64-bit PC compatible SDRAM and no high bandwidth VRAM. That chart shows its bandwidth is only 1/3 of the rest, which is really crappy, yet it blows them out of the water.
>>12545165>Reason why Gran Turismo 4 runs at 60 fps and Forza only at 30 Fps.Forza has a neural net AI system called "Drivatar". The game records your behavior as you play and uses it as training data for NPC cars. It also renders more polygons and has more complex shading on top of that. The geometry details on cars and tracks are a lot higher. I would say GT's art direction is really impressive though, they understood the art of making low poly graphics look photorealistic.
>>12545235>drivatarThat's a stupid fucking name, no wonder people didn't play that game with such a gay ass name
>>12541998Well...1) It came out later than the PS2, so of course it would have more powerful specs for it's hardware.2) The Digital Out port came in handy, especially if you want to use your Gamecube on HDMI.3) No DVD license to pay for. So if you wanted a DVD player, you get the Panasonic version of the Gamecube.Plus without a DVD player, it was IMPOSSIBLE to pirate Gamecube games at the time. Couldn't play CD's or DVD's could fit into it. Piratefags were seething, so they settled for just pirating on Dreamcast, PS2 and Xbox. Which led to the Dreamcast's early demise because Sega couldn't afford to take a hit from sales due to piracy.
>>12545402In your opinion, based on your limited worldview as a brown teenager hanging out with pirate scumbags in June of 2000*
>>12545402>of course it would have more powerful specs for it's hardwareIt has new features like hardware mipmaps, but it's not inherently more powerful. Easier to develop for though. PS2 doesn't even have an out-of-order CPU.>IMPOSSIBLE to pirateMore like nobody bothered. GC DVD wasn't harder to pirate. ISOs had been extracted since 2003. It's just different. You'd just need a different tool, and more importantly, custom mini DVD that would fit in GC drive. Chinks could easily bootleg those disks, but nobody bothered. The console and games sold like shit anyway.
>>12545561t. Seething Piratefag™>>12545692>nobody botheredTell that to the pirate fags trying to trim down their DVD-R's to fit into a Gamecube.
>>12546220Good job! Note that discs go INTO a GameCube, not onto.
>>12545692can't you just use camcorder mini dvd's? like, minidvd wasn't a custom gamecube format, you could just buy them off the shelf
>>12546529Nah, GC's DVD is Panasonic's own format, it may not be like your standard mini DVD, it doesn't use CSS and CLV format, it's CAV with a different DRM system. Hence you would need to spend more on new disc manufacturing toolings to pirate GC.If GC was popular, people wouls pirate it regardless. Just like Wii, similar disc format but a hotbed of piracy.
>>12544797>The Getaway>Best looking
>>12545692>>12545402
>>12545235>Forza has a neural net AI system called "Drivatar". The game records your behavior as you play and uses it as training data for NPC cars.Drivatars were first introduced in Forza Motorsport 5 in 2013 on the Xbone. They weren't a thing in the Xbox or even 360 entries. FM4 did have an adaptive difficulty system where the AI would adjust its skill based on how well you were doing, but that's just essentially slightly more advanced rubber-banding and Mario Kart 64 had that.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIi1aSpJLRQ
>>12544797>Sports: Who caresspotted the weak beta virgin
>>12547316The big difference is that the Wii ended up being a great emulation device that was easy to hack.
>>12547386>Drivatars were first introduced in Forza Motorsport 5 in 2013 on the Xbone. They weren't a thing in the Xbox or even 360 entries. Wrong, pic related. The Xbox and 360 Forzas already used BNN machine learning, the dataset is then recorded and stored in the HDD and trained locally.Xbone Forza used a more sophisticated neural net system, the learning data is uploaded to and trained at MS cloud, rather than stored and trained locally, as described in that interview. >but that's just essentially slightly more advanced rubber-banding and Mario Kart 64 had thatWrong. You don't understand what rubber banding means, and MK64 doesn't even store player behavior and train NPC AI with it.
>>12547440GC was just as easy if not easier to hack. Wii and GC share incredibly similar architecture. The difference is nobody bothered with GC, it sold like shit.
>>12547504Yeah but with the Wii, you didn’t have to rely on burned CD-Rs thanks to its USB and SD card support.
>>12544625StuntmanDriv3r Driver Parallel LinesSilent Hill 2, 3, 4 Shadow of CollossusFF12Just the ones off the top of my head.>>12542661NFSU2 on GC lacked ambient occlusion while the PS2 and Xbox ports had it. The textures were much blurrier too, and many lighting and weather effects were gone. Yeah it runs at 35-60 fps while the PS2 port is locked at 30, but the graphical downgrades are really severe.
>>12547364>Poor cut down DVD-R discs>sharpie writingHow very ghetto of you.
>>12547364does that work?
>>12545402>Which led to the Dreamcast's early demise because Sega couldn't afford to take a hit from sales due to piracy.debunked meme.
>>12542672What's with the Pikmin hate?
>>12549714It's just not a good game, and I really don't get the appeal outside of maybe optimization speedrun autism.It's pretty much just a one note bore fest of stick your designated pikmin on the problem that pikmin goes on over and over.Any blizzard or westwood rts completely blow it out of the water even shitty run down ports like cnc for the 64 Halo wars 1 gen later is a more fun game and warcraft 3 roc in my opinion is a masterpiece so it's really bizzare tendies swear pikmin is the greatest rts of all time WHICH IS LOL but I have it before plenty of times.
>>12544384Don't call me a tard, you fucking tard!
>>12542261>The GPU had embedded DRAM, no different from PS2'sThe NES PPU had that, big deal. Absolutely nothing new or revolutionary about that tech.
>>12549645False. You piratefags had failed to debunk that time and time again. The data doesn't support your arguments.
>>12549410for some games, yes. it depends on the linearity of the world design IIRC (one anon explained it a couple of years ago in great detail)
>>12550050In your opinion, based solely on your limited worldview as a brown teenager hanging out with pirate scum in June of 2000*
>>12550216t. Triggered Piratefag
>>12550407We’ve been over this. You have no data either. You’re basing this entirely on you hanging out with brown Dreamcast pirates when you were 17. That’s it.
>>12544797Notice how Gaycuberts can’t pull up a comparison list.
>>12550452t.Triggered brown piratefag
>>12544797Klonoa 2 looks very flat to me. Much prefer Door to Phantomile in that regard
>>12550574Klonoa 2 is gorgeous.
>>12550543We’ve established that you have nothing. Plus, I’m not the one that fucked up in and on like an ESL. You did, and now you get to eat shit for it.
>>12550617t. Super triggered brown piratefag™
>>12542172DVD license was only $5 for both data and video playback. It was only $1 for just data. It's the cheapest part of having a DVD drive.
>>12542647IT'S A PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT>*HEAVY BREATHING*LOOK AT THIS PATHETIC THING>*HEAVY BREATHING*THE CONTROLLER IS A TOY FOR TODDLERSEVEN HAS A YELLOW CLIT>*HEAVY PANTING*THERE'S ONLY NINDENDO GAMES AND A SHITTY SONIC SPINOFF>*BREATHING PAUSE*...AND THEY ALL FUCKING SUCK>*HEAVY BREATHING*THIS HANDLE IS FOR THROWING AWAY IN THE GARBAGE>*BREATHING PAUSE*JUST TO MAKE SURE YOU DON'T MISS
>>12551260Nintendo: >5 dollars????? More like annuda shoah!!!!!
>>12544797That's the most unhinged fuckin list I've ever seen in my life
>>12549410>>12550060Why wouldn't it work on any game provided the laser doesn't try and read a damaged (or non-existent) area?
>>12544918The EE needed those flops for doing polygon transformations. Flipper had HW transform & lighting so the lack of high throughput vector units in Gecko wasn't a huge deal.The PS2 certainly had a higher pixel fillrate though.
>>12544625MGS2 and 3Silent hill 2 and 3Burnout 3
>>12550979It wasn’t a typo by the way. You did it twice in one post. Let’s circle back to your reveal that you browsed pro wrestling forums. Mexican status strongly suspected. How do you feel about DBZ?
>>12551310>THIS HANDLE IS FOR THROWING AWAY IN THE GARBAGE>>*BREATHING PAUSE*>JUST TO MAKE SURE YOU DON'T MISSfucking lmao
>>12544797Being a GameCube game soul calibur 2 literally looks better than soul calibur 3. Regardless of you consider it one, miyamoto wanted Metroid prime to be a FPS because he realized the GameCube needed some. it looks way more clear and crisp than any ps2 FPS. I’m not even going to bother with the rest of that list right now. maybe if you reply back I’ll bother too. The ps2 has a bigger library with more hidden gems in it so I don’t blame anyone for liking the ps2 more but it objectively looks worse and to claim otherwise is insane levels of cope.
>>12551825>it looks way more clear and crisp than any ps2 FPS.That's just art style, though. I wouldn't say Metroid Prime is a technically impressive game. This game locks you in tiny levels with small enemy count. What makes it prettier or more impressive than Rachet and Clank games? Jak 2 is technically more advanced than any GC game, it's got huge levels filled to the brim with NPCs, and really impressive driving physics.
>>12541998>more powerfulNintendo had the benefit of a year and a half of extra development time.>cheaperNintendo was able to sell the Cube at a loss and make up the difference through sales of games and peripherals, not supporting DVD's also helped keep manufacturing costs relatively low. It also gave the Cube a competitive edge in the younger demographic niche while the more expensive PS2 and Xbox were the consoles grownups played. It may have come third place in the 6th generation but only by a small margin next to the OG Xbox.
>>12551953It has a strong ambience that leaves an impression on you and feels like a real world. and the world is objectively beautiful compared to cartoon slop like you just brought up. I don’t care if you find it “technically impressive or not” you made some list and the first thing that came to mind as a fps was an early GameCube title and it looks better than any first person game on the PlayStation. and it’s entirely because the PlayStation while it does many things well, hamstringed itself and makes everything look like shit if you run on it on the real hardware. When I see videos on YouTube of people emulating it, I can better see and appreciate the details that the ps2 devs attempted to put into their games which are obfuscated and hidden by the shitty hardware. I consider it one of the largest monkey paw fuckups in gaming history because the ps2 library is ambitious with a lot to play and discover. if someone was trapped on an island and had a good computer with the entire ps2 library and they could emulate it somehow, they probably would be completely fine for a long time if they had the patience you dig through all the shit slop games to find the good stuff. I’m going to bed soon so might not reply again. the ps2 is similar in my eyes to the Nintendo ds or psp in the sense that many of those games when upscaled look fucking amazing and we literally could have stayed there and been fine. The games were great and everything is readable without clutter and bullshit everywhere like modern titles.
Cubes are a gay shape.
>>12552031>Nintendo was able to sell the Cube at a loss and make up the difference through sales of games and peripheralsNintendo never sold any of their consoles at a loss. At least not back then.
>>12552093It's more impressive when taking into consideration that the Gamecube was only $99 by its second year on the market. That was a bargain for a current-gen home console.
>>12541998Yamauchi had a knack for haggling down suppliers and keeping costs low. The Flipper GPU contract was with ArtX, a small company founded by former SGI engineers that had pretty much only Nintendo as their customer. ATI later bought them, but I'd assume any contract was fixed before that.PPC really wasn't doing all that well back when IBM made an agreement with Nintendo for Gekko. There really was only Apple using it and IBM for their mainframes. IBM likely gave them a sweetheart deal as well.
>>12552170my fuarkin' hero
>The SNES sold less than the NES. >N64 sold less than the SNES. >GameCube sold less than the N64. The pattern here is obvious.The only reason Nintendo survived after the SNES was thanks to its handheld consoles. The Wii was a big success, but, once again, handhelds kept Nintendo afloat most of the time.
>>12552248The conclusion here is that Nintendo is a handheld gaming company. We should stop criticizing them for their home consoles after the SNES.
>>12552093>>12552102>>12552170KEK NONintendo bled 20 billion yen a year annually selling the SHARTcube at loss.https://web.archive.org/web/20040905160443/http://www.quiter.jp/news/gc/040813001763.html
>>12552248yes we should make NDS a /vr/ platform for saving nintendos.
>>12544717Holy rant.Anyone who emulates know that the same ps2 games look worse on gamecube so if you can't run a game at 60 frames on nether you can get it on gc and it will run for sure.You lost btw, holy rant you must be fun to stare at
>>12551260i mean it is a DVD drive, it's just not advertised as one. like it doesn't carry the DVD forum logo nor support any "DVD" formatted data, but it's still a DVD drive.you'd think after seeing the PS2 getting bought almost in some cases just because it was a DVD player, like it was actually competitive in price with plain DVD players at the time it came out, DVD players were not cheap early on... you'd think they'd just add in DVD movie playback, i mean their hardware is totally capable of it, maybe they didn't think of the sneaky legal loophole that XBox did at the time. (for anyone unfamiliar, the xbox didn't pay for DVD support on a per-console basis, because they locked DVD playback support behind the DVD remote control sold separately, they put the DVD license cost on the remote control so they didn't need to pay for it for people who didn't use it, very clever.)
>>12552354I remember when the PS2 came out they were selling Dreamcast + DVD player bundles for less than the price of a PS2.
>>12552361it was a big deal/selling point, and people knew it
The transparent oval plastic at the top has become scratched up by a stupid kid doing some annoying bullshit. How do I get these light scratches away? Can I buff it out?
>>12544717what's funny is that i picked the ps2... in 2004. at the time and for a long time i knew/thought the ps2 was technically the weakest of of three (rip dreamcast, i barely knew you existed), i picked it mainly for the game selectionit's only in more recent years that i've come to understand that the capabilities of each console is a bit more complex than it appears on paper, and the ps2 can do some things better than the others, and that games that really target the ps2 can actually be worse when ported to the others, and considering the ps2 was the most popular of the 6th gen consoles, this happened often, even big things like the GTA games, were made for the ps2 first and look the best there
>>12552364The fact it was a PS2 was the bigger selling point. People greatly overstate it to the point they believe it was a cheap DVD player and people bought the console exclusively for DVD playback.On the other hand the PS2's dvd playback is superior to the Xbox even, it is a great DVD player but not a cheap one.
>>12552401i don't mean to say it was cheaper than a dvd player, but more like if you're in the market for a dvd player, which in 2000 many were keeping an eye on it, you could get a dvd player and a next-gen console for not much more.it was definitely /a/ reason to pick the ps2, at least until xbox showed up with optional dvd playback as well. both the dreamcast and gamecube didn't support it.i got a ps2 in 2004 (same as the poster above) and that was my family's first dvd player (neither of my parents are interested in technology), in my case that wasn't the reason we got one, i just wanted the ps2 for games, but seeing rented dvds on it convinced my parents to finally buy a standalone dvd player, which by 2004 wasn't too expensive.
>>12550574Your wife is flat
>>12552407>if you're in the market for a dvd player ...you certainly would not pay 3x as much to get one.The price of DVD players dropped considerably around the time of the PS2's release in the West. Panasonic, Hitachi, Pioneer, Philips... they weren't stupid.If the ability to play dvd were such a big deal, the PS2's sales velocity in this chart should have been much higher.The steady migration of millions of PS1 owners to the PS2, along with its vast game catalog of system seller games, was the recipe for its success.
>>12551623t. Super triggered brown pro wrestling fan piratefag™
>>12552645This is how I know I’m getting very close to the mark. Answer the question.
>>12542659mario sunshine water physics would not have worked on the ps2
>>12544574Do you have a source for that claim? Unconfirmed forum posts aren't a valid source.
>>12553236What about it that would make it not work on PS2? It's not the only game with water physics back then.
>>12553235t. Super triggered piratefag named Mark™
>>12553431>Dreamcast had a great library of games that all got re-released in modern consoles and PC.>File sharing programs, file sharing communities in forums and websitesYour words, not mine. Explain yourself.
>>12542659F-Zero GX would run like shit on PS2
>>12554135PS2 has a much better CPU than the GameCube so no it will not happen
>>12553287If you want to hear opinions from people who actually worked on cutting edge games from either devices, take a look at this article. It's from 2000, so it's a very early look into either hardware. https://www.ign.com/articles/2000/11/04/gamecube-versus-playstation-2Jason Rubin of Naughty Dog (game designer and programmer) thinks PS2 has the more powerful CPU.Julian Eggebrecht of Factor5 (company president, not a programmer) thinks Gamecube has the more powerful CPU.Eggerbrecht falsely claimed that cache is the only thing that matters in a CPU, and never addressing the fact that Gecko's out-of-order execution architecture uses up significantly more memory than EE's in-order execution uarch. And he also falsely claimed Gecko has more vector performance than VU0.Rubin agreed that Gamecube's GPU hardware T&L functions will lead to better looking graphical effects than PS2's much more basic GPU, but doubts its raw polygon pushing power and physics calculation performance. Still he gave GC credit where credit's due.From the looks of it, Rubin's claims have more weight.
>>12554463to be fair cache is really important, iirc the celeron 300a was the first intel consumer x86 cpu with on-die full-speed L2 cache, as opposed to the half-speed off-die (but twice as big) L2 cache of the pentium II which was supposed to be the higher end offering. i say supposed to because the 300a became a bit of a meme in that you could overclock it and actually outperform the pentium ii clock for clock just because its' cache was fasterand yea, the gamecube had a more advanced gpu, but the ps2 could keep up with it in that regard by calculating the effects on software on the VU's, since that's from 2000 i don't think any games did much of that yet, which is why launch ps2 games didn't really look any better than dreamcast games
>>12554463read the whole article and i think they're all correct. it's not easy to say which is "more powerful" as they're just so different, they're competing with very different approaches, something you don't see today
>>12555203Cache is so much more important in a PC than in a console. That's because PC software are much more messy, modular, and much less hand optimized. PCs also have different hardware features between each model, making development more messy. But console hardware is much more predictable, and the software doesn't need to be anywhere as modular. You could hand tune in which order you'd load chunks of instructions into the cache, making codes more compact and cache usage much more efficient. Also PS2's in-order execution system just uses less cache, although it's still easy to hit a bottleneck if you're doing stuff like particles effects or big scale simulations, but if you have a team with as much tenacity as 2000s Naughty Dog, you'll find ways around that.Although I will say Factor5 did a great job making use of Gekko's biggest advantage, the cache. Those huge battles in their Star Wars games running at 60 fps is impressive, even if the objects on screen are mostly 2D with LOD effects. They did a good job keeping the codes in cache. Although you have stuff like Demon Chaos on PS2, tens of thousands of enemies and particle effects and still running at 60 fps as well. >and yea, the gamecube had a more advanced gpu, but the ps2 could keep up with it in that regard by calculating the effects on software on the VU'sGamecube's GPU has a lot more vector calculation prowess in it *as a whole*. The caveat is it's not all for geometry and texture mapping. There are vector processors dedicated to lighting, shading, alpha blending, fog, bump mapping, hardware mipmap and texture filtering, texture compression, and all that stuff that aren't pure geometry and texture map. PS1's GPU (VU+EE) is a pure raw geometry pushing, texture mapping, and rasterizing beast. All its vector power is dedicated to those basic functions. >>12555275PS2's got the most different approach for sure. >something you don't see todayBecause we can brute force minimum optimization nowadays.
>>12555618>Cache is so much more important in a PC than in a console. That's because PC software are much more messy, modular, and much less hand optimized.true, but even in that article you can see the two sides of the coin, the people who want hardware/sdk's to be easy/good enough (gamecube/xbox) and those who are willing to put in the effort to make something truly unique/handmade (ps2, while not revealed in the article, obviously talking about Jak and Daxter)i mean the gamecube guy literally makes the cache of the gamecube a key point of comparison, that speaks to their development style. not to make fun of it, i do get it, at the end of the day the goal is to make good games cost-efficiently, so it can worth either way.in the 5th gen both naughty dog and factor 5 were known for getting the most out of hardware, so it's a bit funny for me being more of a 5th gen kid seeing them argue like this. i guess factor 5's nintendo leaning will have a part in his gamecube leaning as well. >Because we can brute force minimum optimization nowadays.yea, i think we're too deep into diminishing returns for anyone to care about getting the most out of a console today, even getting the minimum out of one is almost too much work it seems
I grew up as a tendie faggot gaycube lover. A few years ago, I completed masterpieces like Shadow of the Colossus, MGS3, GOW2, GT4, and SH3. Now, I can’t help but doubt that any NGC game could compare visually to those titles.If the NGC is "more powerful," then Nintendo failed to create something that does it justice.
>>12541998I love the Gamecube so much.
>>12555746Manchildrencore ahh list
>>12555857I can accept being called a manchild, at least i'm happy.
>>12555636>at the end of the day the goal is to make good games cost-efficientlySure, but unfortunately GC wasn't a cost efficient hardware. Nintendo bled $180 million a year selling it at a loss. The GPU and 1T-SRAM were expensive, and the CPU only served a single function. Had they gone with a more basic fully programmable GPU like PS2 did, and used dirt cheap SDRAM like Xbox did, they'd save a lot of money.
>>12555869i'm just talking from the game devs perspective there.i don't think the GS (ps2 gpu) was very programmable, it's closer to the n64 gpu than the gamecube gpu, just faster. a 90s "gpu" on crack. you're expected to do all your "shader" work on the VUs instead (which live in the EE, the cpu die)
>>12555893>i'm just talking from the game devs perspective there.Okay>i don't think the GS (ps2 gpu) was very programmable, it's closer to the n64 gpu than the gamecube gpu, just faster.Are you a developer?
>>12555275soul>Dreamcast had the ability to perform what was called Order Independent Transparency. Dreamcast can output VGA natively>Dreamcast and GameCube had totally different fog hardware. The Dreamcast can very easily recreate any GameCube fog, but the other way around is not so possible depending on how the fog is setup>PS2 is full of beautiful particle effects that wouldn't even come close to being surpassed until GPU particles went mainstream two generations later, and even then tanked with transparency effects the PS2 powered through at 60fps>PS2 Expansion Bay designed for the network adaptor and internal hard disk drive (HDD ATA-66 (Roughly 66MB/s). USB 1.1 interface: 12Mbit (~1.5 MB/s)>GameCube supports texture compression, has hardware support for a lot of different texture effects (via TEV shaders), has a decently large dedicated texture cache and actually has proper support for mipmaps / trilinear filtering>The multitexturing effects were pretty advanced for the time, and the GPU could lay down eight texture layers in a single per pass>Xbox had a high end PC-level GPU coupled with a low-tier Pentium 3 CPU running at 733Mhz with a crippled cache. The system has Direct X 8.1, shader model 1.1, vertex shader 1.1 and two Vertex Shader units, while the Geforce 3's only had one>The Xbox uses a unified memory architecture meaning the CPU and GPU share the same RAM. Unlike a PC there’s no concept of creating a D3D allocation in VRAM and having the GPU manage it. On Xbox the CPU can create an allocation for textures, render targets, vertex buffers, etc, and pass the allocation address directly to the GPU. This gives developers the ability to allocate one buffer and have multiple resource “views” that utilize the memory
The PS2 is more capable than the NGC. The NGC’s most technically impressive game is F-Zero GX, which runs on an updated Naomi engine also used for Monkey Ball. Then there are Starfox Adventures and Rogue Squadron 2, both launch titles, but no commercial game truly showcased its full potential. In contrast, the PS2 has titles that would be impossible to imagine on the NGC, with God of War 2, Gran Turismo 4, and Shadow of the Colossus being prime examples. While Resident Evil 4 may look better on the NGC, that’s due to a rushed port rather than superior hardware.
>>12555893Yeah was only talking about the VUs. The GS is pretty much fixed function. It's a little more than PS1 GPU on crack as far as I know. PS2 is pretty much PS1 on crack while Gamecube and Xbox took a more modern approach. Xbox was the most modern one here, using unified memory instead of a separate VRAM, keeping the costs down.
>>12555923>NGCtourist
>>12555923lazy ports that don't do much to adapt to the ps2 tend to be pretty terrible, since a lot of the ps2's power lies in the vector coprocessors which don't really have direct equivalents elsewhere>>12555937i like to think of the ps2 as an n64 on crack, i mean they both use RDRAM, both require more effort than normal to make the most of it, both have an unusual, pre-gpu-shaders method of custom graphics processing (ps2 has vus and n64 has programmable rsp microcode). though there are of course some psx-like parts of the ps2, like its' sound processor is basically just the psx's but more, not that it really counts but the ps2's I/O processor is literally a psx cpu, also used for backwards compat>>12555941it's really weird seeing it written the way an english speaker would assume it should be
>>12555941>I-It's GCN! B-because it's JAPANESE! uwu GameCube Nintendo
>>12555941>>12555984NGC = Nintendo GameCubeGCN = GameCuNny???
>>12556001it doesn't really matter what it stands for, same goes for things like PSX and DMG.i wouldn't call you wrong for using "NGC" but i can understand why you'd be called a tourist since there's no need to change something everyone else is already familiar with
>>12555923>Starfox Adventures>launch titleWhat a fucktard
>>12541998The Gamecube is one console, the PS2 is a PS1 as well.
>>12556013>DMGDigitalMidgetGame
>>12556030technically speaking the ps2 doesn't contain any additional hardware because of it- sound processor is backwards compatible with the psx as it's basically just two psx spus- psx cpu is included but used in ps2 mode as an i/o coprocessor- psx gpu is emulated in softwareon very late ps2 units the io processor is emulated as well but in a separate chip still, so not sure why>>12556051Dot-Matrix Game
>>12555923>Then there are Starfox Adventuresgame is shit but looking that good and running at 60fps is really impressive.
>>12555861The fuck?!
>>12555746nba with Mario characters? like with SSX?
>>12541998It isn't though.
>>12542189There is no PS2 game that looks as good as Metroid Prime 2.
>>12545402Based and redpilled. Finally someone on this board besides me who knows piracy killed the dreamcast.
>>12559296>There is no PS2 game that looks as good as Metroid Prime 2.Disagree. Games like Shadow of the Colossus, God of War 2, and Gran Turismo 4 exceeded Metroid Prime 2's visuals on PS2.
>>12555916Man what a time to be alive. They don't make technical progress like they used to I tell you whuat
>>12542189It IS more powerful, but Nintendo hampered its capabilities with those tiny discs that couldn't hold higher resolution textures, audio, or video. Kind of retarded desu.
>>12559464>It IS more powerfulIt is not. Emotion Engine rapes the GayCube as the Graphics Synthesizer delivers it in stunning 1080i.
>>12545402>Piracy>Piracy>PiracyI hate this cope
>>12559856Zoomers also don't understand that thes games also dropped in prices after a while, speacially the GH releases
>>12559464>It IS more powerful>1.5GB cookies vs 8.5GB double layer DVDs>Can't output 1080i>No L3/R3>No pressure sensitive buttons>Doesn't support HDD>Its CPU is trash compared to the all mighty Emotion Engine>Its GPU is trash compared to the greatest Graphics SynthesizerPlayStation 2 fucks while GayCubie watches.
>>12545402the ps2 has digital audio out>without a DVD player, it was IMPOSSIBLE to pirate Gamecube games at the timeit's just mini dvd's, you can buy thoseif you're desperate you can also just remove the top cover. i remember some companies sold replacement top covers that could take full size dvd's as well
>>12542659sotc didnt even work on ps2. looks like absolute shit and runs at 12 fps. what a joke
>>12542672>ps2 had classic after classicif you're a casual retard with no standards, sure.
>>12559974
>>12560006>3 good games out of 24
Some of the rarely mentioned PS2 bangers. Beat this, cubie sisters.
>>12560365Jokes on you, I specifically like playing Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2 on my GameCube because it has 2 extra levels and the PS2 version has some weird interlacing effect that makes it look like shit.
>>12560068Weak bait. Tendies are so weak.
>>12554463>guy who works at studio hoping to be bought by Sony says the Sony product is betterWow.
>>12560365you need a better bait image, some of those games are on the gamecube
>>12560380>Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2 on my GameCube because it has 2 extra levelsThen you'll love RE4 on PS2
>>12560561I only see two.
>>12560365>19/24 are inferior multiplatsThe PS2 library is such a dumpster fire.
>>12560913>inferior to $1000 gaming PC from 2000sDon't mind if I do.>inferior to XGOD versionsI was just belittling gay cube, not trying to denounce the king of consoles.
>>12541998Gamecube needed system seller games.They went for the exclusivity deal with Capcom for the main Resident Evil titles, but that was a dumb move, because the RE fanbase wasn't on Nintendo's console.. It only tanked the franchise.Even so, I don't believe the GameCube fared any better, since the Xbox tried way harder selling each console at huge loss, Sega partnership, dvd movie player capabilty, more powerful, heavy first party-party and third-party games support and still only managed to sell 3 million more units.
>>12552401>On the other hand the PS2's dvd playback is superior to the Xbox evenHow so? What's the difference?
>>12561162give me ffx, kingdom hearts 1 and dqviii and you can keep the rest of that garbage normie nigger slop forever
>>12559856>muh attachment ratesDidn't stop Sega from losing money due to piracy from loss game sales.>>12559865>greatest hits titles>from PS2The PS2 was harder to pirate. You basically needed a modchip or a DVD burner, which wasn't widespread and DVD burners were very expensive at the time. Nice try piratefag.>>12559959Digital audio out doesn't improve visual quality on an HDTV or 4KTV.As for mini DVD's, not many people at the time were even aware of them nor was it popular. Either way, the biggest barrier to piracy on Gamecube was the DVD burner itself, which was expensive at the time.
>>12561162>Xbox tried way harder selling each console at huge loss, Sega partnership, dvd movie player capabilty, more powerful, heavy first party-party and third-party games support and still only managed to sell 3 million more unitsNintendo had much better brand recognition, and the hardware loss of gamecube would have been close to $1 billion according to this article: >>12552276Granted, not as bad as Microsoft's $4 billion loss, but still quite bad. Also GC's production only ceased in early 2007, while Xbox was ended in 2005.Xbox's Nvidia GPU was a bad deal, and the hard drive were really expensive. They never sold the system at a profit. GC had none of those, hence it didn't have it as bad.
>>12561169You had to either softmod your Xbox or pay for the remote.
All the NGC kids ended up as transgender, immature adults, and/or gay.
>>12561194>muh _____Not an argument.>Didn't stop Sega from losing money due to piracy from loss game sales.So what? How much money was lost vs using a DVD drive with better anti piracy measure instead of GD drive?
>>12562102Your whole post is a not an argument. Fact of the matter is that piracy killed the Dreamcast and it shows with loss game sales.
>>12562108>Fact of the matter is that piracy killed the DreamcastYou mean piracy killed Xbox and N64 because the attachment rate is even lower. >it shows with loss game salesWhere.
>>12562031projecting are we?
>>12561194>the biggest barrier to piracy on Gamecube was the DVD burner itself, which was expensive at the time.well sure, but the ps2 and xbox were mostly dvd games as well.not sure if any xbox games used cd's because i went with the ps2, but only a handful of ps2 games used cd's (very obvious as the back of ps2 cd games were blue). i think the only ps2 game i owned that was on a cd was Tekken Tag Tournament. it was not common for ps2 games to be on cd
>>12541998
>>12562123It's the truth and you know it, xister.
>>12562119>Muh attachment rateIrrelevant. Also both Xbox and N64 were harder to pirate and did well. The fact that you're pretending to be unaware that Dreamcast game sales were negatively impacted by piracy, shows your unwillingness to concede to the truth.>>12562152I never heard of any PS2 games using a CD format, but it was probably for shorter games(much like the games on Dreamcast)
>>12564040apparently there's a fair number of themhttps://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/2992675not every game needs more than 700M
>>12564040>Irrelevant.How is the number of games sold per console bought irrelevant when your complaint is people pirating games instead of buying them?
>>12563717You ended up on 4chan obsessing over trannies, so you kind of played yourself.
>>12564119I grew up with an adorable purple GameCube.
>>12564339Anime probably did more damage than the Cube.
