>>12553694
Another shitty bait thread yawn

>>12553694
It's bizarrely funny that Nintendo just didn't make Mario 64 2 on the actual N64, when that would have been the obvious thing to do. It legit would have been a great project for a secondary team to see what they could do with the mechanics later on the console's lifecycle.

>>12553712
Bait would be calling Sunshine better than 64

>>12553713
It's not bizarre because they made the same mistake with the snes, instead of a proper upgrade to SMW we got the gay dinosaur game that plays nothing like Mario.

I liked the beach level

>no one asked
I did

>>12553694
Nah, I like the spray and hovering mechanic. The worlds really make you feel like you are going on summer vacation and the characters moving around each episode as if the world was alive while a story was going on in each world was great. Worst part is the last level of course it felt like they were rushing it at the end but otherwise great game.

schizo thread

>>12553694
i don't think "mario 64 with different levels and better graphics" would have worked on the gamecube. sm64 is a pretty simple game, its gimmick is that it's 3D, you can't use that gimmick again on the gamecube since 3D was just expected of any game by that point. it needed a new gimmick, which is where fludd comes in, it's largely sm64-like, just with a technically impressive looking liquid mechanic, i think it's perfect as a gamecube showcase along the same vein as sm64 was a 3d showcase for the n64

>>12553713
Im convinced that they didn't make a sequel right away because the developers were worked to the point of almost quitting on the original game, even by Japanese salarymen standards. The Mario 64 devs slept and ate at their desks.
Maybe that's why Sunshine felt so lax.

>>12553694
>all they had to do was Mario 64 but bigger
Rare did that with their collecthons on N64 and nearly destroyed 3D platformers in the process. I appreciate the attempt to innovate, it just wasn't handled that well. FLUDD felt like more of a crutch for Mario's worse controls than something that inspires more creative level design.

>>12553772
>nearly destroyed 3D platformers in the process
Tooie actually showed that they could pull this off well though. It's like the second best N64 game overall.

>>12553778
Theres a ton of areas with empty space and lots of backtracking in Tooie. In 2000 it was cool to play a 3D platformer that felt so big but now it's just tedious to replay. I'd imagine a Mario 64 sequel would feel the same way if they took Rare's approach of "just do the same thing but bigger" for their games.

3D platformer is an inherently defective genre. Not surprising that aside from marioslop its completely dead

hi auster!

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175 KB JPG

Delfino Plaza... home.

>>12553694
>>12553731
>>12553796
Didnt they start development on this with an Apple II GS?

>>12553835
hi again auster

I’ve always been split on this game, it has a ton of soul in it, but like you said idk if the entire game needed to revolve around the water gimmick. it did seem kind of weird that Luigi’s mansion had came out already with the vacuum backpack and then this Mario game comes out with another backpack accessory. I might go back to this one and play it again, idk if I like it more or less than Mario 64. It’s still good but I do think it may have gone too far into the happy go lucky island vacation vibe and lacked some of the ominous or dark feeling 64 levels. Maybe they overcorrected and didnt want anything to feel scary like the 64 title.


Also real ones remember when McDonald’s had this set up to play and sonic adventure on another GameCube.

>>12553756
So should the Mario game on the Wii been 4d because 3d isnt enough?

>>12553768
Maybe miyamoto being a slave driver was how we got so many dark feeling kino levels in 64

>>12553828
It’s ok I guess but lacks the presence of peaches castle, they could have kept the 64 layout the same and added some new areas to it. Looking like this it would be awesome.

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62 KB JPG

>>12553772
>Rare did that with their collecthons on N64 and nearly destroyed 3D platformers in the process.

>>12553756
You don't need a gimmick every new game, maybe you should make the same game as before but bigger and better

>>12553772
>Mario's worse controls
worked on my machine

>>12553712
>the truth is bait

>>12553712
fpwp

>>12553713
They were making a Mario 64 2 but it got canned thanks to the 64DD failing. I'm mad about it to this day.

>>12553782
It is a zoomerism to treat all areas of the game that don't actively house content as "pointless" if you can movementslop through the area

>>12553835
Me speccy, actually.

>>12553828
The Delphino Plaza theme got me into Jazz Manouche, especially Django Reinhardt.

>>12554680
The 64DD is the unsung villain of the N64. I swear 70% of the N64 fuck ups are because of the 64DD

>>12554680
That's exactly right. The entire game was built around the functionality of the 64DD so it had to be tossed out when the accessory was canceled.

>>12554982
I mean the entire thing was an astronomically retarded concept to begin with. You make a console with carts and then plan an expansion to use disks before the console even releases because you know carts are too expensive. Then you stumble around making the disk expansion for years while devs are all waiting for it to make games for your system because they hate the limitations of carts, cart prices fall and the expansion utterly bombs when it comes out years later. Virtually everything anyone had planned for the 64 winds up scrapped or cut down because it was all riding on an expansion they were trying to replace the base console with from the very start (It was originally meant to come out in 1997 for fuck's sake). Nothing about it makes any goddamn sense.

>>12555070
The Famicom had a successful disk system in Japan. The important context is the cost of hardware, ram, etc, in those years. Today this is managed by having an SSD in the console but that was not a thing in the 1990's.

The failure to deliver the hardware is the real story. I've never looked into it but someone clearly fucked up.

>>12555076
The FDS came out 3 years later and was never intended to replace the Famicom's core functionality in the way every single dev wanted to use the 64DD instead of the base N64. The Famicom lived on for several years later with the two coexisting. Games on it were not inherently unable to be put on carts as proven by the western and even Japanese (re)releases of said disk games, and major titles like SMB3 were put on cart after a detour for SMB2JP.

64DD came out 3 years later too of course, but that was not the original plan whatsoever and the Gamecube was around the corner at that point with the N64 having less than 2 years of life left. Then you have the batshit excuses like them wanting to make sure the 64 was cheaper so they didn't include a fast CD drive to begin with, when all the games were more expensive for it and their remedy was another expensive accessory people would have to buy anyways. Obviously Nintendo's own cart and disk production profits were a factor here but the entire thought process was asinine.

>>12553694
Sunshine is a fantastic video game and is probably the best Mario has ever controlled. Fast paced, high skill ceiling, varied environments that hadn't been done for Mario before. Disliking this game is a symptom of mental retardation.

>>12553694
>random hating mario sunshine.
>search : koopa jr is the son of peach thus kidnaps her.
Well is clear why some hate and it has nothing to do with world map, gameplay, graphics or gimmicks.

>>12553713
Nintendo in general (especially back then) has an aversion to making iterative sequels. They always want the next game to be some out-of-left-field "revolution" in design rather than just building upon what works. Like their adamant refusal to just make a true Starfox 64 sequel, or any F-Zero game since GX because it wouldn't be "different enough" despite the fact people don't want it to be different.

>>12555189
Japanese creative types unfortunately have this obsession with coming up with ideas so good that the customer didn't even know they wanted them, but will enjoy them more than what they had expected to get in the first place.

This of course runs counter to how any human alive processes things so it almost never works out but it's why Nintendo operates the way that it does.

>>12555106
>their remedy was another expensive accessory people would have to buy anyways.
Even if the 64DD released has scheduled the fact you need both the console and expansion to have the full experience was a failure from the start, potentially the full combo could have been more expensive than the PlayStation (also, a regular CD holds more data than the 64DD disks)

>>12555226
>unfortunately
its only unfortunate in the sense that some stupid people online will get upset that they didnt get the same thing again. In reality Nintendo games are still beloved because they took chances and the consumer benefited greatly. These games that get constantly shitposted about didnt fail despite what they want you to believe and you dont need to defend reality.

>>12555226
>so it almost never works out
On the contrary it works out often enough and is such an explosion of reception when it does work that it's easy to see why they don't stop even if it means swallowing some failures or shelving iconic series
>Super Mario Bros
>Super Mario 64
>BOTW
>Splatoon has made gyro aiming an industry standard
>Smash Bros
>The Gameboy
>Nintendo DS
>Nintendo Wii
>Nintendo Switch (people were bitching it wasn't just a PS4 competitive box on launch)
This is just a small sample size but it's all over their game design and it's worked out a million times. Honest to god, probably more times than not. Imagine if Pikmin was a Warcraft clone or Super Mario 64 3 is what we got instead of Galaxy.

NSMB is literally exactly what everyone is asking for and it's derided as Mario at its laziest

>>12555229
i also don't think it makes sense. companies will always prefer to release games for the base system, and even if games come out for both, how many DD games would you need to buy before the cost benefit of the disc games outweigh the cost of the DD drive itself?
and the discs only went up to 64MiB as well, same as the largest carts (though they were bigger earlier, and cheaper), so it's not like you were getting cd quality audio or fmvs even on the DD discs. the only unique feature they had over CDs was that they could be written to, but i can't imagine many games could make that a killer feature
should have just bit the loading screen bullet and made the n64 a cd console from the start

>>12553713
Yeah now that you mention it; it is weird that they didn't bother releasing SM64-2 considering the original game was a launch title. They pumped out Majora's Mask pretty quickly, could have done the same for SM64.

>>12555189
>Like their adamant refusal to just make a true Starfox 64 sequel
Well now we're getting Starfox 64. Again.

>>12555286
>NSMB is literally exactly what everyone is asking for and it's derided as Mario at its laziest
No one is asking for NSMB slop. SMB1, SMB3, and SMW are all unique games that feel different from each other and have tons of their own ideas while retaining a similar core experience. The NSMB games are all incredibly derivative. Wonder at least tried but it was in making each level a gimmick rather than coming up with new yet familiar core gameplay elements in the way SMB3 and World pushed forward.

What sets Mario Sunshine apart from being a proper Mario 64 sequel is that instead of building upon what made Mario 64 so great while introducing fresh new ideas that improve the experience, they went backwards and removed the ability to choose your own path through the game, gutted Mario's moveset, slapped an everpresent gimmick on his back, and delivered an undercooked pile of garbage with fewer stages than a game from years ago on last gen hardware. Then Mario Galaxy, a game you seemingly want to praise, went further and removed even more of Mario's moves, slowed him to a crawl, and made every stage a boring linear stroll through the park rather than even trying to keep the illusion of an open adventure as Sunshine did.

>>12554061
>So should the Mario game on the Wii been 4d because 3d isnt enough?
It had the gravity/planetoids gimmick and the slight waggling because just 3D wasn't enough.

>>12555296
It’s not that odd. What is odd is that there also wasn’t at least a legitimate Mario title at launch for the GameCube. Apparently, Sunshine was rushed? And that came out a year later. Every previous Nintendo console launched with a Mario game, but 5 years after SM64, GC kicks off with Luigi ghost spinoff.

>>12555413
>SMB1, SMB3, and SMW are all unique games that feel different from each other and have tons of their own ideas while retaining a similar core experience
and so are 3d marios, lmao. "oh no! its got a bit too much focus on the gimmick!" mario still controls and moves the same, interacts with the world the same, and has the same collection objective. it just has the added gimmick thing of fludd (or gravity or cappy) added on top. the only one thats a bit different in the experience is galaxy because most of the levels are individual, linear experiences, and not bouncing around a sandbox.
>removed the ability to choose your own path through the game
laughably pathetic complaint
>gutted Mario's moveset
they took away the long jump, but gave him the spin jump and fludd. they literally added to it. both the spin jump and the long jump return in later games.
>slapped an everpresent gimmick on his back
not inherently a bad thing.
also fludd is fun and fine.
>delivered an undercooked pile of garbage
it could use some refinement in a few areas, but lets not pretend like mario64 was some sort of flawless game, lmao
>with fewer stages
valid, but you're also complaining about needing to do them all, as if you want to just do less. you really you're just a complainer faggot with no argument.
>Then Mario Galaxy, went further and removed even more of Mario's moves
they gave him back the long jump, took away the melee attacks and dive, gave him a ton of spin mechanics (double kick, homing ground slam, and of course jump related spin stuff) and the starbit shot.

its insane how consistently wrong you are. you're just a bitter baby bitchboy.

>>12557350
>and so are 3d marios, lmao.
They attempt to be but fall short. Sunshine fails to live up to 64 and has no freedom of choice. Galaxy has some freedom but railroads you far more within the levels themselves while playing slower than molasses. Both are a step backwards.

>laughably pathetic complaint
Sunshine literally does not have enough content to support custom routing which is the only reason they removed it, and every single Shine outside of the first 7 Episodes of each world is completely superfluous unless you get all 120, many of which are blue coin related. It is a massive issue with the game's design and a result of it being rushed out the door unfinished.

>they took away the long jump, but gave him the spin jump and fludd.
The spin jump is a nice addition, but removing the long jump for the Hover Nozzle is a terrible trade. FLUDD is so disliked that often people will claim the best parts of the game are the shitty platforming voids that look more thrown together than Rainbow Ride.

>lets not pretend like mario64 was some sort of flawless game
For a launch title on the N64, being practically the first game of its kind? It's fucking spectacular. They got nearly everything right the first time.

>valid, but you're also complaining about needing to do them all, as if you want to just do less.
Mario 64 requires 70 Stars for standard completion, and the way it tracks progress lets you skip entire levels in the process. Sunshine requires a mere 50, despite having to clear out every level save for the extra 8th Shine in the process. That's the complaint, retard.

Mario feels far stiffer to control in Galaxy as a result of taking out the more natural melee and diving options while also destroying his speed. Sure you have the spin attack as a form of replacement but it sure doesn't feel as fun. What they did add doesn't make up for what was lost, similar to Sunshine.

It is 2002+24(!) and people are still claiming they Sunshine entirely revolved around F.L.U.D.D.
Something like a quarter of the levels in the game remove the backpack, and many more don't even really require it for navigation.
Even if the game was entirely dependent on water, that wouldn't be bad. F.L.U.D.D. is great fun in the early game, spraying away all the muck is rather satisfying and it's too bad the game doesn't have more of it. Later levels once you get the new nozzles are awesome, turboing around the beaches feels awesome and being able to rocket across the map does too. There is nothing in Mario 64 as satisfying as scaling the cove at Noki Bay, or drowning out the lava in Pianta Village.
The controls are great too, that's another myth that I can't believe still persists. The very first level shows you this, the opening of Bianca Hills lets you run, triple jump, slide, flip, and hover across the town in no time. Nothing feels as good as blasting some water and belly flopping to get momentum.
And the game does all this while still feeling cool and tropical, it's really a masterpiece, especially the way Koizumi took Clock Town and put some of into Delfino Plaza.
Yoshi is severely underutilized, though, and I wish the Blue Coins weren't so cumbersome. I also liked spraying graffiti off too much, I wanted a game about more of that, but then they had to make Splatoon battle royale slop.