Yeah that's why SOTN and Alpha 3 are in the top 10 PS1 metacritic...
>>12572991they were hated on N64
>>12572991Now show the sales numbers.
>>12572991I'm not sure who is more foolish: the person you're apparently quoting, or you for believing it was enough of a representative statement that you just had to make a thread about it.
>>12572991Sotn is boring.>>12573004Yeah, dem 3D Mario sales eclipsing those of 2D Mario.
>>125730082D Mario numbers are skewed by being pack-ins.
>>12573004Rayman is the best selling PS1 game in UKOddworld was a great commercial successAlpha 3 sold more than 1 millions SOTN sold pretty well too
>>12573007You living in a cave manThe narrative that 2D games were underapreciated is extremely common when talking about that era
I have an entire folder of these. Because I am the fact recoverer, the truth seeker, the ultimate /vr/ warrior.
Check the "graphics" rating. And the game had 3D environments, but it has character sprites so I guess that makes it an SNES game.
Chocobo Racing review, graphics rating, again
>look a few journalist didn't like 2D !!!>But the vast majority didn't mind that's why many 2D games were extremely well received >Nooo!! My narrative is crumbling!!!
BoF3>Dickheads might turn their nose up at this 'cos of the way it looksMeaning the reviewer admits others have an anti 2D bias. Note that is again, like Grandia, a game with both 3D and 2D.
Totally brah the 16bit consoles would be able to do arcade perfect TAITO F3 games
>>12573039It's 2D so the SNES would run it
>>12573027based evidence bringer anon
MegaDrive can do it brah
This one always gets me>Perfect for daily mail readers
>>12573042another anon continued actually
Another case of SNES and Mega Drive could do it brehs
Not /vr/ but legendary rage bait
>>12573059
>>12573065He was right though, all the next main Castlevania games were 3D, two on N64, two on PS2 and 1 cancelled on Dreamcast. Only on handhelds and in the 00's did they go 2D, the only place where 2D was acceptable, but objectively those were side games with lower budgets.
>>12573071He was wrong since handhelds Castlevania games continue the SOTN formula
>>12573007/vr/ needs more threads
>>12573027>>12573029>>12573031>>12573032man i knew britbongs had shit taste, but this...
>>12573027>>12573032>>12573043>>12573059I mean sure, British game reviewers are shit, but what did real people think?
>>12572991Who are you quoting? I never heard that argument before. You're strawmaning, a real argument would be that people did not get excited for 2d games in that era because 3d was seen as the next leap forward in gaming.
When will anons realize the press =/= the public?SOTN had greatest hits/platinum edition because precisely it sold well despite how many bong mags decried it as the worst thing ever.Journos aren't people. This is true now, and it was true back then.
>>12573271Nobody likes to admit they have their opinion influenced by media. Like how these days suddenly you see people claim "I've known this about this game since I was a kid!!!" the moment they watch a youtube video on said game, which are the modern equivalent of magazines.
>>12573239>>12573264They were butthurt over their Speccy being clowned on and irrelevant in the wider gaming sphere so they shit on all other video games in spite
>>12573290That's true, it's also difficult to find public record.So many old usenet posts are just junk from people trying to sell or trade, very hard to find opinion content. Gamefaqs reveals its early audience didn't discover tons of games until well after the fact but perusing usenet you can see where some early narratives were taking hold. SotN was popular with the usenet crowd. Ocarina is funnily absent from many "best game ever" lists circa 2000/2001 while the original Zelda tends to show up.If anyone has any better resources please share them. Can't find shit it seems.
>>12573056he's right though. maybe not about the music, but everything else is bang on
>>12572991Playstation magazine review of alpha 3:>"the only thing to tarnish this is the graphics. So if you think gameplay is more important than texture-mapped polygons, consider the score to be a ten.So they punished its review score for being 2D but clarified that people who could tolerate lower end graphics it would be a 10.There really was an illness going around at the time.
>>12573495If only SF Alpha III looked like the EX series or Final Fight Revenge it would have been a 10/10
>>12573495>There really was an illness going around at the time.3D mindbroke a lot of people; but to be fair you "had to be there" to understand, 3D felt like a whole new world and anything 3D felt amazing to play on account of it being 3D. The very same 3D levels which today feel insignificant, small and underdetailed, at the time felt like these huge immersive worlds you could get lost into.Also every era had its obsessions. For instance in the early 16 bit days in Japan it was "BIG SPRITES!!!", and small sprites felt "dated 8-bit crap". This is what people these days who complain about the sprite size in Mega Man 7 aren't aware of.I'm not defending any of it, I'm only saying that the context makes it more understandable
If only RayForce looked like RayStorm bros...
>>12573039This one doesn't say that the SNES could pull off Ray Force. It says that 16-bit console shooter ports were mostly inferior to the arcade originals and that the Saturn should be better at handling games like these. This is a fair point
It took me many years to realize the whole >2D games were looked down on with the arrival of the Playstationlie was just more Saturn bullshit to excuse why it failed>muh 2d powerhouse had the best games but fuggin Sony tricked everyone into thinking 2D games were bad....fuck off
>>12573595you picked the worst thread to say this because the many images posted above prove you wrong
>>12573697Are you gonna quote journalists to tell me how gamers were united in favor of Depression Quest and united against games with bikini armor?You could! Every single journalist has the same opinions about these things, so naturally all gamers agree with them and have the same mindset.I understand that history teachers think historians and journalists accurately represent the people they deliver their products/reports to, but it doesn't work in gaming.
>>12573056Reviews such as this showcase what a joke video game "journalism" has always been.Ok you didn't like the gameplay, soundtrack ok that's fine. But the graphics 22%, like what you seriously telling me Xenogears is Bubsy 3D levels of visual?
>>12573697>>12572991Nah this image prove that it was never a widespread opinion
If only it was 3D then it would be a true masterpiece
>>12572991>"2D games were hated during the PS1 era"Who said that, you fucking schizo? What are you even trying to do here?
>>12573575Shhh, let the retard have his narrative.
Come on do you really want to play 2D games?
>>12574101I hate millennials, so many 2D masterpieces unfairly maligned because everyone suddenly decided "2D bad" back thent. zoomer
>>12574107They weren't unfairly maligned by the vast majority of journalistSOTN:93 Metacritic Street fighter alpha 3:93 Metacritic
>>12574121>meta critic which mostly consists of 360 & PS3 version reviews>accurate average for the time
>>12574124
>>12574107I'm a 1992 millennial and I was still a little kid around the PS1 era, so I think it was mainly Gen X going on about "2D bad".
SNES can do it strikes again
>>12574131That's fair, I'll blame them instead
If only it was a 3D title then it would be a real N64 game
>>12574175N64 IS THE KING OF 3D
its 2D whoah such a blast back to the NES days
Mega Drive & SNES could do it
>>12574197That's what the "but my meta critics!!!" posters don't understand. They just look at numbers and not what's behind them.For instance this particular 4 stars out of 4 review would be a 100/100 rating for Metacritic, and yet it still demonstrates the anti 2D posture , twice, at the start and at the end of the review. The tl;dr is literally "it's good despite being 2D!"
>>12574197They still mention 2D a lot in the article, implying it was a burdon that "modern players" have to overcome. A lot of the SoTN reviews from the era were apologetic about the 2D and used commentd like "great game despite its 2D presentation" or "dont dismiss this one just because of the 2D visuals". They knew their audience would have issues with the graphics and assured them the game was still good in spite of them.Tl;drEven good critic scores of a handful of 2D titles doesnt dismiss the "myth" that gamers were retards salivating for 3D everything back in the late 90s. As others have said earlier, people went momentarily retarded for a few years there where quantity of polygons meant as much or more than the quality of the game itself.
>>12574208That's not what he said...Trying to warp reality to your made up narrative
>>12574240>With sprite based characters rather than polygons>the game looks like it hails from a bygone era
My takeaway from this thread is that brits are subhumans
>>12574247Yeah that mean the game style remind old school 16 bits adventure game,doesn't mean the SNES could handle it Shovel knight remind of NES platformer that doesn't mean it could work on NES...
>>12574261>brits are subhumansEverything must be as grey, bleak, and miserable as themselves.
>>12574274>old school 16bit adventure>old school 16bit in 1998Nigger are you for real?
>>12574282Yeah a game from previous generation was considered old school at the time
>>12574247The graphics are simple they are nostalgia.Again 2D is the past
If only it was 3D
>>12574303>Publisher: Virgin?
>>12574208It would’ve looked better on MD or SNES, and areas wouldnt have been separated by fades to black.
>>12574370MD and SNES would burn if they try to run this game with more loading zone
>>12574342They give it a bad note because it's a crappy port with tons of slowdown not because it's 2D you don't even read what your posting
>>12574380>poor graphics that dont deserve to be associated with saturn
>>12574386>flat bland graphics akin to Mega Drive
>>12574386>The Saturn has proven capabilities with sprites just look at night warriors or Xmen for proof of that,how come then,in the hunt suffers from slow down when things get hectic?
>>12574409They are saying the game looks like a Mega Drive game and you are bringing up irrelevant stuff to counter this point.
>>12574419He say there are better looking 2D games on the Saturn
SFA3 is one of the best console ports ever and really made you hopeful for fighting games even if you weren't super competitive. They tossed in so much stuff that was simple, but still extended the game life that everything before it seemed pathetic by comparison
Rarely have I seen an OP in /vr/ get so brutally owned
>>12572991Alpha 3 got a pass because it had world tour mode. Same with SotN due to having RPG elements. Games like Darkstalkers 3 or Castlevania Chronicles got roasted way more.That's the only thing that would make retarded journos give 2d a fair shake since RPGs were all the rage back then cuz people were obsessed with innovation to an unhealthy degree. Mega Man X4 got a lot of hate for being "just another Mega Man" despite it adding a new fully playable character with his own powers and story mode along with anime cutscenes (yeah the voice acting was shit I know). Even then I remember some Spanish magazine still painting SFA3 as more of the same and how it should be 3d. There's also some infamous article praising Castlevania 64 and seeing SotN as outdated.Some people will go "it was just the journos" but many retarded kids would form their opinions based on the stupid shit those frauds writing reviews for gaming magazines would say.>>12573027Based. Thanks for showing OP he had a cocktail in his mouth for an opinion.
>>12573264The mags were actually very representative of what the actual players thought. The writers were normalfags playing games, both mainstream and niche, and rating them from their own perspective. They wanted flashy 3D and cinematics instead of autistic shit from arcades and last gen, and so did the players, and that's why Gran Turismo, a car game, is the best selling PS1 title of all time. Of course these writers would pan stuff that would go on to be regarded as classic years later, because you need a certain mindset to really appreciate Darius Gaiden or Dragon's Crown for what they are.
>>12574342It's so funny how quickly they started calling games retro back then.
>>12573004Both those games got Greatest Hits editions
>>12574490probably has to do with the perceived rate of change or differences. Even a complete casual could easily tell how much games were changing whereas today there hardly seems like much difference since ~gen 6 outside of size and graphics
>>12574472Nah megaman x4 got good review The inclusion of SOTN and Alpha 3 in the top 10 PS1 metacritic destroy all your narrativeThey wouldn't put 2 2D games on the top 9 PS1 games if they hate 2D moron
>>12574447same
>>12574107we were the kids being told 2d bad anon, don't blame us
>>12574342>>12574101The score has more to do with shmups being outdated slop after the 80s
>>12574514>the perceived rate of changeIt wasn't perception it was alarming fast rate of change. The 5 years from 1993-1998 saw more changes in gaming than we saw in the last 20 years (PS3 to PS5 and GTA4 to GTA5). This wasnt just graphics but whole new genres emerging now that memory limitations were greatly alleviated, and storage increased exponentially.
>>12572991>2D games were hated during the PS1 eraby the execs at SCEA. Specifically this guy. Finish your sentences, anon.
If you're collecting them, here's Official Playstation magazine saying BoF3's sprite animations are "simple and blocky and 16bit"
>>12574858But they liked the 3d towns!
>>12574858Ff7 set a new standard of what jrpgs should look like
The infamous SNES strikes again
>>12574472>Based. Thanks for showing OP he had a cocktail in his mouth for an opinion.Sorry but another anon did most of the work, I only posted the 3 first
They really hate Megaman
>>125751153D effects would have made it betterhttps://www.gamespot.com/reviews/mega-man-x4-review/1900-2533992/
>>12575115Not manly enough, hardcore gaming is exclusively for games such as Twisted Metal, Tomb Raider, Gran Turismo, and Pro Evolution Soccer.Spyro gets a pass, it's for kids and hardcore gamers alike, but only because Sony paid me to say so.
all these images are CHERRYPICKING, post hte one were 2d games on psx got als o8 out of 10 and 9 out of 10.
Did he confuse Strikers 1945 with Capcoms 1942?
>>12575138Even the ones that received good scores got hit for being 2D>>12574197>>12574303
>>12575150SOTN Alpha 3 93 Metacritic They really got hit for being 2D
>>12575154Read the cons you retarded nigger
>>12575154>meta critic sotn & sf zero3 playstation a total of 12 publicationsThat's one hell of a sample bro
>>1257516912 most prestigious publications that gave an almost perfect noteBut poor 2D games were so mistreated
>>12575174>12 most prestigous publications >most are not even magazines
>>12575181IGN, GameSpot ,Electronic gaming monthly are more popular and prestigious than all you shitty British magazinesKind of funny you like to post test of UK official PlayStation magazine but the US PlayStation magazine gave SOTN a perfect noteIt just the Brits who have terrible tastes
>>12575192Nigger even the much more prestigous Famitsu gave it 30/40. Meta critic sample is a complete utter joke.
>>12575192>Electronic gaming monthlyThe EGM review isn't even from 1997 but from 2003https://web.archive.org/web/20031229031124/http://www.egmmag.com/article2/0%2C4364%2C1369566%2C00.asp
>>12575208No moron it was archived on 2003 but the review are from november 1997
>>12575215Fake history There is no mention of Sotn in the November 1997 maghttps://archive.org/details/electronic-gaming-monthly-issue-100-november-1997_202106/page/n191/mode/1up
>>12575219Hmmm what's that?OWNED
>>12575227They linked the wrong page on wiki, however I was wrong about that egm review.Point still stands meta critics sample is way too low and does not tell the true reception.
>>12575232>however I was wrong about that egm review.Yeah you were wrong about a lot of thing in this thread,that's what happen when you try to wrap reality to support a false narrative
>>12575235>It doesn't count because I didn't read those magazinesA sample of 12 is a complete piss in the ocean for the amount of magazines 1997.Even Famitsu gave it 30/40 and that's featured on metacritic.
>>12575240>that's not featured
>>12575240>>12575215Dude just look at all those review,great notes everywhere Cherry-picking the one review that goes with your narrative while ignoring the vast majority of review that contradicts itP.S:Famitsu are morons they give a better score to the crappy Saturn port
>>12575246>Cherry-picking the one review that goes with your narrative while ignoring the vast majority of review that contradicts itWhat one review, I have posted from different magazines even regions.It gets decent reviews in spite of being 2D. Plenty of games take a hit for simply being 2D>Dracula X>Surprisingly, Konami is treating Saturn users once again to their own Castlevania adventure, which is identical to the PlayStation version. Instead of three-dimensional polygon graphics, there is once again pure bitmap visuals, which would also have been possible on the Super NES. However, the jump & shoot classic does not need elaborate 3D graphics, because Castlevania is well known for living off its atmosphere and perfectly styled level design. The former comes across especially well thanks to the sometimes gripping orchestral soundtrack.>As for the game design, Castlevania veterans will not need any adjustment period. As before, equipped with a whip or other weapons, you explore the extensive walls of Castlevania, collect power-ups, and destroy adversaries as well as sneaky bosses. Interestingly, you have three characters to choose from right away, and they differ greatly in terms of their possible actions.>(Ulf)>Test sample from: Maro 0711/956 11 30>FUN 79%
>>12575272It didn't say 2D is bad in fact it say that Castlevania does not need 3D graphicsQuie the contrary to "we hate 2D games,we only want 3D"He's wrong about those graphics being possible on the SNES but game journalist were never good judging hardware capacity
Looks great on a surface level. However once again the SNES strikes again, 2D is always to the detriment.
>>12575293>Instead of three-dimensional polygon graphics, there is once again pure bitmap visuals, which would also have been possible on the Super NESHow is this not being critical of the graphics?
Oddworld Abe odyssey a 2D games being nominated for best graphics of 1997 by electronic gaming monthly >Journalist hated 2D graphics!!!
>>12575294Suikoden isn't really the prettiest 2D games on PS1 to be honest79 is still pretty decent
>>12575301>However, the jump & shoot classic does not need elaborate 3D graphicsActually it's no big deal
Legend of mana universally praised for it's gorgeous 2D graphics , winning award for best graphics of the yearBut hey 2D games were considered unappealing
>>12575343By the 2000s being mad about 2D had started to diminish.It peaks around 1996-1998
>>12575293>Instead of three-dimensional polygon graphics, there is once again pure bitmap visuals, which would also have been possible on the Super NES. >This is not patronizing at all
>>12573003yea, all 5 of them
>>12575349It's a 1999 game anon,the review are from this period+6G is the worst in terms of 2D home console offeringThere is barely any original 2D on those consoles unlike PS1/Saturn
>>12575356>>However, the jump & shoot classic does not need elaborate 3D graphicsNot important for the journalist
>>12575362Legend of Mana hit the english speaking world in 2000 bro
>>12575349>>12575313 >It peaks around 1996-1998Yet this 2D games received a nomination for best graphics of the year in 1998
>>12575363>Hey fatty!!>I like your shoesMan you are one dense motherfucker>>12575368You only post one magazine, threadhas reviews from multiple magazines and regionsPiss in the ocean as stated earlier
>>12575372Electronic gaming monthly was one of the most prestigious magazine Much more important than the german or British trash magazines
>GamePro gave it a perfect 5.0 out of 5 for graphics and sound and a 4.5 out of 5 for control and funfactor, asserting that it "bursts onto the scene with the kind of unique gameplay and killer graphics that will rocket it straight into the PlayStation hall of fame.">The graphics struck many reviewers as being excellent.[53][58][59][62]>Nooo!my false narrative is crumbling !!?
>>12572991oh, i see you decided to make this its own thread.well, i think you've been thoroughly trounced by the DOZENS of examples already posted itt, but i'll go ahead and copy all these over.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsYm7nN7Bw0as was said a dozen times in the Sonic thread: it wasn't every journalist, it wasn't every gamer, but people absolutely were interested in the NEW thing (3D) and wanted to see more of it simply because it was the NEW thing.graphics whores have been a thing for as long as there have been graphics.
>>12575386>2D games being disparagingly refered to as 16bit, snes or mega drive games appears across multiple game magazines, regions and even languages >This is not true because there are publications that didn't do that.Absolute birdbrain take
>>12575425>>12575386>GamePro gave it a perfect 5.0 out of 5 for graphics and sound and a 4.5 out of 5 for control and funfactor, asserting that it "bursts onto the scene with the kind of unique gameplay and killer graphics that will rocket it straight into the PlayStation hall of fame.">The graphics struck many reviewers as being excellent.[53][58][59][62]You're my bitch don't forget it i own you
If countless examples align with my opinion then it's factual, otherwise it's cherry picking.
>>12575435>>12575343>The game presentation was almost universally praised
>>12574107Moron.
Let's make a quick summary-most 2D noteworthy games of that era got good to great reviews-SOTN and Alpha 3 are in the top 10 PS1 metacritic -several 2D games got prize or nomination for best graphics of the yearWe are winning bros!!!
As you can probably tell from the screenshots, the strength of Castlevania X is not necessarily in its brilliant wealth of detail. In fact, the hero sprites are even somewhat reminiscent of the good old 16-bit days, and in terms of the gameplay itself there is not much more going on. In return, however, you can look forward to very different and lovingly staged locations within a huge castle area. Everywhere we encounter new, interesting sprites, and there seem to be almost no limits to their many actions. A usable automapping system keeps us informed about our current location, while special regeneration rooms provide us with fresh energy and at the same time can serve as a checkpoint for an involuntary new attempt. For the hero who makes it through to the end, there is also a special video sequence to see before he is sent hunting again under new, tougher conditions.Oliver Preißner
>>12575440lmaoyou've been slapped across the face with so much evidence it's given you a concussion.don't go to sleep, Timmy.
>>12575565Design: The castle maps, characters, and surroundings are very well thought out; only the 2D feels a little too retro
>>12575603>>12575473I destroyed everything you believed in.All your have left is cherry picking some obscure germanjunk what a pathetic looser
OP really got btfo, love to see it
>>12575641>calls 40+ examples from all over the world, a chunk of them from the US, "cherrypicking">still tries to hold up 12 reviews as "destroying everything"lollmaothe reason you think there was no such thing as a 3D bias is because you weren't alive back then.
>>12575386That game is just heavily prerendered 3d levels, similar to resident evil 2 or FF7, they just fixed the camera for a side view like a classic platformer (DK country style). Layered foreround objects gave it extra depth. It was "3d enough" to get a pass.
>>12575739Also there were so many frames of sprite animation, it looked like smooth 3d models.
>Needless to say, the graphics and musical score are great, which is what you'd expect from Konami. The anime-style look of Dracula X has been replaced with a more Roman approach that adds a surprising amount of depth to the game's wonderful atmosphere. Each area comes to life with vividly animated enemies, gorgeous backgrounds with multiple levels of parallax scrolling, and stellar special effects (particularly of note are the lighting and fog effects used in certain levels)Once again the "3D biased journalists" praisong 2D graphics
>>12575725You just love to twist what reviewer saidSaying a game is 16 bits style doesn't mean it's bad looking it's just a description
>>12575782>reviewers literally use the words "dated," "poorly detailed," "rubbish," "unimpressive," "belongs on a previous generation console," "disappointing," "outmoded," "old," "shows its age," "not enough," "cheesy," "so-so.">"Y-you're just twisting their words!"lolwhy is it so hard for you to believe graphics whores have always existed?
Zoomers can't understand what it was like to live in an era that not only featured a lot of technological progress but where the zeitgeist was one of positivity about such progress. It made sense to want to stay in touch with the latest and greatest technology because so many advances were being made. There is a much bigger gap between a game made in the mid 90s and one made in the mid 00s than there is between a mid 2010s game and a mid 2020s game.
>>12575115That's not really a "2D sucks" complaint as it is a "every Megaman game is the fucking same" one, which people were already saying about the NES ones back when those were new too.
>>12572991>Using metacritic, a subsidiary of fandom, for any kind of argument>Using a aggregate score that includes reviews made well after the PS1 era ended and reviewers turned back around to embrace 2D again>Being a phonejeet>Trying to argue this fallacy when there's been magazine storytimes for several months where the majority of reviews showed 2D PS1 games being at a disadvantageMake like the Netflix Alucard and take it up the ass
>>12573029I know the Saturn version of Rayman isn't received well but that score is bullshit.
>>12573062Just to compare here's the "dumbmerican" version of the same magazine's review for SOTN
>>12576589>PSM>the same as Official Playstation MagazineAnon you bojo. I'll post there review (also a 5 out of 5) before someone tries to use that against you.
>>12576623Incidentally they consider SotN's weakest aspects to be a general easy difficulty, no real tests of reflexes like older Castlevania games, the voice acting being subpar, and there's no cool extra pack-ins like Japan might have had.
Was Saturn version of SOTN ever reviewed by a western Magazine?
>>12573575To be fair Layer Section looked like ass unless you played it in 3:4 mode. Otherwise it was missing all the parallax effects.
>>12576970Maybe as import in british or states magazines.
