I was discussing some games online, I was mentioning some Platformers, SHMUPs and Run 'n Gun titles and someone commented on how they are all short games 30-40 minutes long, as if it's a bad thing or a flaw, why are tr00ns so obsessed with wanting every game being 50 hours long?They won't touch a game if it's under one hour long and 'll belittle it without even playing it
>>12581219That's funny you mention troons because they're big fans of speedrunning short games which you seem to worship.
>>12581221I never saw the appeal of speedrunning, might as well just move on after beating the game and try another one
>>12581219Somewhere around Gen 6/Gen 7 people became obsessed with the "muh open world" meme. They also started to quantize everything and be like "if a game isn't x amount of hours long, I'm not paying more than $5 for it", whereas in the past people just bought games and didn't give a fuck. In my eyes, there are very few games that are justified in having a 30+ hour runtime. Most games that are that long are just loaded with filler
>>12581221Yeah, like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time which are well renowned for being 40 minute games.
>>12581228I 'll argue long games are just bloated and contain too much repetitive content
>>12581230>Does he know their records?
>>12581234>equating speedrun times with game lengthWhat's the next stupid thing you're going to say?
>>12581237>When diddy blud is coping this hard
>>12581219They are only 30-40 minutes long if you're save stating or credit feeding your way through them
I 'll tell you the story:After like 2000 gaming effectively died, and the reason for this is actually very simple: Too many cooks in the kitchen.Look at the staff roll for a game like Popful Mail. Only ten people worked on it. Same with other retro games like DoDonPachi, or DOOM.Then look at a relatively simple game a few generations later, something like idk Wario Land 4: It has 25 people. That's on underpowered hardware, almost every single GameCube game had staff in the triple digits.What changed? Sure, 3D required more hands on deck, but why did Metal Slug 1 only need 8 people to do everything, while Metal Slug 6 needed five times that amount? Something just doesn't add up.Apparently some modern games require over 1,000 people to work on them before they can be finished, and that's just insane to me. No wonder some devs fly solo nowadays, this is totally unsustainable.
>>12581248Not like zoomer tr00ns understand how these games were meant to be played
Sometimes you want a quick arcadey action / puzzle whatever. Maybe you're feeling energetic and don't have much time. Maybe you like testing skill and getting scores.Sometimes you want an escapist adventure. Maybe you want to imagine you're fighting monsters in a forest to crazy music because real life is depressing sometimes and you want to get away.The real troon here is OP for thinking you can only like one kind of game.
>>12581309RPGs are bloated and repetitive, barely real games .
>>12581321All games are repetitive. I fail to see your issue. Did some guy you hated in school go on to love RPGs or something?
>>12581330people have bad taste...they sink hours into junk entertainment, mash buttons, chase cheap dopamine, and call it depth. It’s not mysterious; slot machines have always had an audience.Other people gravitate toward demanding, skill-based pursuits. They like things that push back. They take care of themselves, choose challenge over comfort, and play shmups. JRPGs are passive consumption dressed up as effort; shmups are practice, discipline, and mastery. One numbs. The other sharpens.
>>12581331Ohhh, you're a shmup fan jorkin' yourself off because you think it represents skill. You have mental vestiges of wanting your mother to be impressed as a child. So you play the games some rando said were skill-based (despite them being memorization) and make fun of everyone else to make yourself feel better.You don't even like playing games.
>>12581331Let me stop you right there. Shmups are grinding. The actual process itself of gitting gud at a shmup feels the same, and in practice is the same, as grinding in a JRPG. And while JRPGs have an element of hard-coded RNG where you can just win by getting lucky, in practice the same is true with shmups where you can randomly shit out an amazing run and then immediately eat shit on the next one. The actual process of playing both genres feels the exact same and if you disagree then you haven't played both genres.
>>12581337I.K.R, I am convinced almost none plays shmups nowadays, at least without credit feeding, it's mostly performative, such a horrible genre, there is nothing to enjoy about it aside of the music.
>>12581350I'm that anon. I'll still play a shmup every now and then. Like, an hour or two a year lol.I'm a huge RPG fan, but it's probably only 25% of what I play. I like games.Why cuck yourself like OP into one genre solely because of how you fantasize others perceive you for playing it? That's wild.
Shoot em ups ARE definitely more repetitive than RPGS I mean they only have ONE thing on their gameplay loop shoot things and go to the next stage meanwhile RPGS gameplay loop is more varied with at minimum being Explore > Combat > Story > Explore > Combar > Story meanwhile shoot em ups are just Shooting Stage > Shooting Stage > Shooting StageYou do the same exact thing the whole game.
>>12581374So what? Shmups last like 50 mins max, but RPGs always take upwards of 20 hours. Shmups present unique and different gameplay problems, but RPGs you're mostly just spamming whichever attacks/spells you need to get through trash mob after trash mob after trash mob.
>>12581405>So what? Shmups last like 50 mins max, but RPGs always take upwards of 20 hoursYeah that's exactly why people ignore shoot em ups when looking for something to play, they know it will be brief short experience with no substance or appeal, and being short it's no excuse for having such a non-existent gameplay loop.>Shmups present unique and different gameplay problemsDodge the bullets, obstacles and shoot stuff seems like the only answer>I don't know how to play rpgs!Oh nevemind you're retarded
>>12581219>>12581405The thing with shmups and RPGs is that the latter have their complexity laid out right in front of the player. To play the game you have to wade through excel spreadsheets worth of stats and choices that give you the illusion the game is deep, even if what most players end up doing is picking the obvious strongest option all the time. However, the routine of town-dungeon-battle-town turns into a rhythm, because all the elements are spaced out just far enough to keep the repetition from settling in too fast. The story, the changing names, the changing sceneries keep the player going, and the numbers keep him stimulated enough to prevent him from thinking the game is for retards.Meanwhile, shmups obscure their complexity. The rank is hidden. Enemy layouts, their behavior or bullet patterns are something you have to dive into headfirst, even if a lot of the knowledge and muscle memory transfers between the games. You dodge the bullets, but the specific ways of doing that and knowing what to avoid to not get trapped is never told to the player explicitly. The game never lays out puzzles like "use this element to counter this". You're on your own. Someone oblivious will be just doing the same thing over and over in the game while feeding coins. He'll get bored as these games tend not to do much to break up the routine and often put less focus on visceral variation.
>>12581461>You dodge the bullets, but the specific ways of doing that and knowing what to avoid to not get trapped is never told to the player explicitly.You could make the hidden complexity argument about Tetris, or any game. Have you tried THPS?Even RPGs have a hidden "ranking" / difficulty mechanic. It's called not grinding and playing the game as low level as possible to where you have to be creative, but I guess you didn't consider that.
>>12581465>You could make the hidden complexity argument about Tetris, or any game. Have you tried THPS?Good job, you almost get it.>Even RPGs have a hidden "ranking" / difficulty mechanic. It's called not grinding and playing the game as low level as possible to where you have to be creative, but I guess you didn't consider that....nevermind, you argue in bad faith.
>>12581461Most people use the easiest and strongest option not just in rpgs but all fucking genres, what a stupid argument, it's fucking common sense.
>>12581461This but the opposite.
games have been getting linearly longer since the NES era
>>12581645imagine if in the 21st century a full priced AAA title was released that had 30 minutes of gameplay in it. the gaming press would shit themselves.
>>12581228It came with the switch to games being so piss easy it was impossible to fail at them, alongside a heavy focus on story that people would buy the game to "experience". These people played through the game once to experience the story, bitched if the game was so hard they got stuck somewhere because "I paid for the game, I should see the entire game", but also bitched if the game wasn't 40 hours long because "I paid for this game so I should get my money's worth of playtime". Which of course just lead to long bloated games designed to waste a bunch of your time just so they take "long enough" to experience on your one and only playthrough.
Short games are basically score attacks. Do you know what the most popular score attack game of all time is?
>>12581331Thanks for the reply, ChatGPT
>>12581219What I think is retarded about it all is yes, some games can be completed in an hour, but anyone who fires up Contra for the 1st time will not beat it in an hour. Without cheating, resorting to save states, rewind or the 30 lives code or even memorizing someone's playtrhough it'll probably take you an hour or more just to master the 1st level. Some people just look at it like it's only an hour of content when really the experience could take weeks or even months with some games.
>>12581740you can beat Contra in under 40 minutes
>>12581219>>12581650why are y'all being this disingenuous? retro games are only short AFTER you've put in the hundreds of hours to be able to beat them as such. find me a single person with 0 experience playing old run n guns who is beating contra in 30 minutes during their first playthrough.
>>12581740What they did in the NES era was have absurd difficulty and cheap deaths to artificially pad out the game length since a 64k or 1 megabit game by itself would have like 30 minutes of gameplay.
>>12581786trannies just spam save states or credit feed, they don't know how these games were meant to be played
>>12581674>"I paid for the game, I should see the entire game"Yeah, this is a major problem nowadays. When Neon Inferno came out last year, there were people bitching on the steam forums that the easiest difficulty was too hard. The devs actually updated the game to make it easier in response to those people. The crazy thing is it wasn't even hard at all on easy, it just required a tiny amount of pattern recognition for some of the boss battles, but nothing that was unreasonable.
8-bit games were naturally short due to their small size, derp.
>>12581409>>I don't know how to play rpgs!>Oh nevemind you're retardedSwap RPGs with shmups and the same could be said of you
>>12581783It takes as long as a jarpig to be good enough to 1cc contra
>>12582114Are these trannies in the room with us now?
John was born in 1987. He grew up when home console games were expensive so he only got a few games a year. He had loads of time bored because no Internet or phones. His family did not rent. John liked arcades but appreciated the occasional 40 hour game filled with secrets. "Nothing worse than getting your only game for 3-4 months only for it to be 30 minutes long and still repetitive with bullshit gimmicks," he once said.Meanwhile....Timmy was born in 2004. He always knew the fast world of phones and Internet. He has full romsets and treats gaming like a checklist. He gets infuriated when "popular old thing" took dozens of hours. If something popular takes more than two hours it infuriates him. Timmy simply needs to just play what he likes instead of what he doesn't.
>>12582742The poor 90s kid also had a cut down US localization with a smaller ROM size or censored content due to NOA faggotry, he couldn't play the game as it was meant to be played, and even if he had a Japanese cart it has dialog he can't read.
>>12582746That sucks but US versions are usually more fun.eg. Ninja Gaiden 3 or Contra Hard Corps.The extra challenge is really great.
>>12582746He also didn't know, it didn't matter, he was having fun.
>>12582748By the 2000s you could definitely find out online what you were cheated out of.
>>12582749NES Contra being the most notorious example.
>>12582749Normal people don't go out of their way to try and find things to feel bad about.
>>12581219I don't think short games are bad (Castlevania 1 is one of my favorite games), but you also need to remember that if you only got like 1 or 2 games per year, you preferably wanted something a little longerOf course CV1 takes more than 30 mins when you haven't learned the game yet, but I'd say you've pretty much mastered the game after 5 hours
>>12582749Yeah, I had a full SNES romset in 04.It's a mentality thing. We played games to escape the world and have fun. We didn't do anything in life with the expectation that others had to know we did it.
>>12581258Real
there's quite a progression from a 4k Atari 2600 game to a 4 megabit SNES game in how much content can be fit in there
>>12582731trannies are tasteless JRPG fans
>>12582781technology advanced so quickly in the 80s-90s that it would have been mind-blowing to go from Atari 2600 games to FF6 in a little over a decade
>>12582802>we went from score attack games where you have fun with your bros trying to beat your old high score to pretentious weeb storybooksis that actually progression? some would disagree.
>>12582812Yeah and those some lost unc that’s why nobody makes score attack slop anymore
>>12582812It would get even worse and more insufferable on the PS1.
Both short games and long games have merit. It's fun to have a 30+ hour immersive RPG to chip away at over an extended period of time, making progress each time you pick it up, but it is also fun to have short games that you can clear in under an hour, once your skill level is high enough.
>>12582812Yeah, games are art now, not some beep boop mindless score attack slop for 5 yo. If that isn't progress what is?
>>12582812More like: We went from playing Space Invaders and Breakout by ourselves when we were bored at grandma's house to having adventures and mazes that are hours upon hours long with secrets we could progress through over weeks.You can like both. It's childish to chimp out because a genre you don't like exists.
>>12581219it's about immersion, freedom, adventuremost think is a post-playstation phenomenom, but it's written "Nintendo" all over it... they probed it with Zelda and set the global standard with SMB3. The SNES went that far in that direction as the hardware and developers could. It finally became obvious during PS1/PS2 era. I see the bridge to multi-awarded massive open worlds of today and maybe to full VR somedayon the other side there's sports/arcade games which are intense, visceral and focused experiences. Both have their place. Making a good game of either is tough
>>12582858NES games are still pretty linear, even the RPGs. They don't quite become open world until the 16-bit consoles.
>>12582858the PS1 was a step backward to mostly linear stages due to the limitations of CD storage, it could not have open worlds like N64 games
>>12582781the average NES game was 1-2 megabits, that was about 60% of the library
>>12581221/thread
