>>12867940
Nobody outside Japan cared about jarpigs at all until FF7 came out. The revisionism of SNES-era ones started well after that in the internet age as tendies looked for reasons why their childhood consoles were the bestest. It's no coincidence that they picked a genre where the Mega Drive was lacking to herald.

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People have been saying that Chrono Trigger is one of the greatest video games of all time basically since its release.
It had very few detractors. Most of the things peopled criticized then are the same things its criticized for now (Crono is a silent protagonist & the game is generally pretty easy).
If anything, it's perhaps more popular outside of Japan than in it. In Japan there were more high quality JRPGs, so it wasn't quite as impressive by comparison. (To be clear though, it was and is thought to be one of the greatest RPGs of all time, just maybe not to the same degree.)

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Evermore mogs it.

>>12867940
Video games were exclusively for kids back then. A handful of the ones I knew had found square games and of course enjoyed all of them. There was no hierarchy like FF3 > FF2. It was just oh wow Secret of Mana is fun. Oh wow Mario RPG is fun. The fanboy fagging didn’t start until FF7 lowered the bar

>>12868445
I don't know how anyone who was playing linda3 at the time could consider Chrono Trigger the best jrgp ever made, there was so much more interesting stuff coming out around that time.

>>12867940
Chrono trigger really only benefits over other jrpgs is that its decently paced for once. Almost every jrpg no matter how good it is has a really dogshit part where you are just trying to get though it see the end grinding multiple levels or going on a giant world Easter hunt bored or some really terrible dungeon/boss rush against very easy bosses.
Chrono trigger just ends satisfactorily.
Super mario rpg does too, but that has the baggage of being childish because its mario.

>>12867940
A small cabal of millennial manchildren that are coping loudly on the internet because FFVII violently raped and gaped their anuses proclaimed Chrono Trigger as the best. It only sold a few hundred thousand copies. Contemporary reviews said it was merely decent. It released to little fanfare. It came and went, like nothing happened, and years later people went back and dug it up to prop up the SNES. The game's status as great only exists as an idiosyncrasy of the english speaking internet. Among Japanese the consensus is that Dragon Quest II was a thousand times better. And the Chinese internet has another meme game, a turn based RPG that came out in the same year, even has a time travel segment, that they claim is the greatest game of all time.

The Chinese claim that the Legend of Sword and Fairy is the greatest game of all time. This game outsold Chrono Trigger by a factor of 5, and due to piracy was played by tens of millions of people. It's a unique and emotional tale that heavily references traditional Chinese culture. Its gameplay is the same as Chrono Trigger, its story is much better and its graphics and sound are just as good. Yet the English speaking internet never heard of it, because it never got an official translation. Probably because of the nudity, violence, and gambling.

This calls into question the entirety of internet discourse. It is arbitrary what is considered good, because the pool of known media is always a small subsection of what was released globally. As English speakers, we pretend that English has importance and that it is the global language and everything is known within it, but this is false. There are thousands of games, even entire platforms and genres, that are not included in the discussion at all.

So no, I don't pretend this game is especially great or has any type of importance. Because it doesn't. Not to anyone besides the small self-contained group of English speaking discourse trannies.

>>12867943
furthermore nobody cared about videogames before the playstation was released, whose only purpose was to introduce the medium to casuals.

It was and still is one of the worst games of all time. Seethe harder nintendies.

>>12868653
I played it for the first time in my 30s with no nostalgia and even I can admit it's the best JRPG ever made. Especially for it's time. The pacing is so brilliant because there's never THAT part. And to this day im listening to the OST while I work. The question is why haven't they made something up to par in this day and age?

can anyone here point me to a better one? One that isn't full of fluff though. It should be short and sweet

I played it when it was relatively new and considered it to be one of the best games I'd played. As far as RPGs, I saw it as the best along with Final Fantasy VI (III to me back then).

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>>12869080
>can anyone here point me to a better one?
I don't think there is though. There are jrpgs that reaches higher highs but also lower lows.

>>12868653
>Contemporary reviews said it was merely decent.
Factually incorrect.
>It released to little fanfare. It came and went, like nothing happened, and years later people went back and dug it up to prop up the SNES.
No, it was always respected and talked about among RPG fans. RPG fans were a smaller group back then, of course. After FFVII made them explode in popularity, a lot of people sought out older Square games too. Then emulation made it so everybody could play Chrono Trigger and it got even more attention.

I thought it was goated even when it came out

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>>12869087
A sample

>>12869094
>Challenge hard

>>12868653
>small self-contained group of English speaking discourse trannies
>as if chrono trigger wasn't huge in Latin America and everywhere else with emulators too
Those people loved their Toriyama, do you really believe they wouldn't have cared about CT?

>>12867940
Even today, you might even find someone in this very thread who would call it lolanimeshit

>>12867940
It was never available for rent at the stores so some people clearly liked it. Thing was back then video games weren't a massive industry, they were still seen as a gimmick toy bad parents gave stupid kids who were too lazy to go outside and play, so there really wasn't a lot of video game advertisement or community to know which games were good or not. It wasn't until the double whammy of the golden age of the internet and 3D consoles being released that vidya became a mainstream industry and commercials and advertisements for games started appearing consistently on tv

>>12868481
>Linda3
This is a perfect example of how hilariously clueless CT critics are.
Linda3 is a dark, edgy game with bland, sub-par graphics, standard turn-based combat mechanics with some monster collecting autism crack on top. I'm not saying it's a bad game, but it's a niche game targeting a niche audience by focusing on a few specific ideas.

Chrono Trigger is the complete opposite. It's a game meant to have universal appeal, specifically NOT trying to be too edgy or experimental. The story is fast-paced and fun, with vivid, memorable and upbeat characters in an epic time-traveling world-spanning adventure. The environments are beautiful and the settings are wide-ranging. The combat system is highly polished and dynamic, balanced to be very easy and accessible without being too simplistic or shallow. The underlying RPG systems are robust mechanically, so there's actually a good range of abilities, but the systems are normalfag-accessible rather than being a containment zone for number autists. The graphics are thoroughly top-tier, with every visual element of the game being polished and high-quality. Some games may have a few impressive things, maybe great boss sprites or battle backgrounds or something like that, but then they skimp on something else like field maps or menu systems or whatever. Chrono Trigger doesn't skimp on anything. Same goes for soundtracks. Some games have a few good tracks and then a bunch of low-effort filler. Chrono Trigger's tracks are ALL good.

I know, you want your edgelord plots and spreadsheet crack. I like that stuff myself. But that's not all there is to the genre.

>>12869098
Mid-90s Square magazine ads always had a very cool design.

>>12869084
Exactly.
Most of the other great RPGs lean hard into something more divisive. Or are just way too fucking long or slow-paced.

>>12867940
I didn't know a single person with this game in the 90s and was pretty surprised to see it on lists and stuff. Earthbound was sort of the same way but it had smash bros. Now FF7 was something that was everywhere and getting sucked off all the time

Game-wise I can see it's pretty high quality but I didn't find it all that interesting. It's sort of hard to articulate in that it feels like it was made to be super popular or appealing and it does that fine but I didn't really feel much playing it. Frog and Magus were pretty much the only characters that moved me a bit and I don't remember any battles at all except Lavos. I've had more fun with "worse" games which unfairly or not has always made me think less of CT despite it being a very high quality game

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>>12868481
>I don't know how anyone who was playing (untranslated adult-only PC Engine RPG that sold very few copies) at the time could consider Chrono Trigger the best jrgp ever made
Nobody played Linda Cube. The game was incredibly obscure even in Japan and was completely unheard of outside of Japan.
The game only received one contemporary review in a language besides Japanese, and it was this French magazine which gave it a score of 10 out of 100.

>>12867940
>lolanimeshit
Anime wasn't trendy with normies back then so the anime nerds got no hate

>>12869080
>I played it for the first time in my 30s with no nostalgia
Even worse. You went into it knowing the reputation it has. Any generic JRPG like Baten Kaitos or FFIX would have had the same effect on you if you were already primed to like it before you even played it.
>>12869171
>I've had more fun with "worse" games which unfairly or not has always made me think less of CT despite it being a very high quality game
It has a good presentation. The graphics and sound are top notch. The combat is easy and you never have to grind. It tells you where you to go. That's all it takes to satisfy critics.

The gameplay is trash and takes no skill. The story and writing is garbage.

>>12869605
>Any generic JRPG like Baten Kaitos or FFIX would have had the same effect on you if you were already primed to like it before you even played it.
Doesn't work that way.
>The gameplay is trash
It's not. Really weird how CT critics just cannot resist on this point. No one is impressed if you think the game is easy. And if you aren't smart enough to recognize well-designed, well-executed gameplay systems paired with a good progression of content, you're probably not smart enough to be good at any legitimately challenging RPG. So you just play other trivially easy RPGs and pretend like they're meaningfully harder.

>>12867940
Played it as a kid. Liked it, but always preferred FF6.

>>12869645
in japan, not only is it not considered the best game of all time, it's not considered the best rpg of all time, the best snes game of all time, or even the best japanese snes rpg of its release year. Famitsu gave it a 35/40, the bare minimum of what they consider classic, and it got outsold by a december game even though it released in march. there's no argument for it being better than the other rpg's considered classic, like pokemon red/green or dragon quest ii. you can say reputation doesnt matter but if it didnt have reputation you wouldnt have even played it at all.

Didn't we already have this thread

>>12867940
rpg fanatics were excited for what a “dream team” could come up with but not a lot of people bought it compared to final fantasy 3 so it was in a cool little niche gem pile where magazines like game informer wanked it as the greatest shif ever but it’s no final fantasy 3 (6). secret of mana was more highly regarded by rpg nerds back in the day because of the music and multiplayer.

>>12867940
>Did people know what they had back then
Yes, there's a reason why it's in everyone’s top games

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>>12869750
https://www.famitsu.com/news/202112/27246207.html
Nah, it's highly regarded in Japan as well.

>>12871809
https://www.thegamer.com/chrono-trigger-best-game-heisei-period-japan/

>>12869750
None of that shit is relevant. The point is that you aren't smart enough to understand the true reasons why the game is highly regarded. This means you are a lesser person with a defective brain, pushing an inferior understanding of videogames and life.

Defeating a strawman about CT being the GOAT does not prove the gameplay is trash, and that's the context of the reply.

The one piece of context that explains a lot about CT's initial reception that most people forget or don't even know about is that it came out well into the 16-bit crash. Everyone was sitting on hundreds of thousands of cartridges that customers just wouldn't buy. Journalists at the time were referring it as the second video game crash in the US.
So it sold between maybe 100 and 200k units during that time (this is a rough estimate and it could be less, the real number is 300k including the PSX re-release which for all we know might have sold more than the original) which is at the same time nothing, but a lot during that period compared to the majority of games out there especially with 5th gen consoles in the corner. The context was not favorable for it so, despite there being great reviews and great player comments you can find at the time, it was still a niche game and it's definitely a game that peaked in recognition much later on, once the number of RPG players increased in a post FF7 world with the PSX release and SNES emulation.

>>12868472
>Video games were exclusively for kids back then

This is such a stupid thing to say considering the timeframe it came out in, which is around the time new systems like the PSX and Saturn became successfull precisely because they weren't aimed at kids, instead being targetted to young adults because they were the ones with money.
Your post also sounds like "well it was for children and children are stupid", every time with posters like this it's always people projecting hard with their childhood, YOU were a dumb kid who didn't know shit and had 2 games a year and you think the entire industry was centered around you. It wasn't.

>>12871809
It's behind two dragon quest entries. the game i'm referring to is the dragon quest of that year. dragon quest is clearly regarded as the superior series. only reason ct is that high at all is because the west memed it, and they cant have too many dragon quest games in the top 10
>>12871936
>prove the gameplay is trash
does that really need to be proven? even the most glowing fanboy can admit the gameplay is not the best. why are you so emotionally invested in this random game?

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>>12869098
Why didn't Dragon Quest (Horii) come out?

>>12869095
If you read magazines you'd know that challenge was also a way to say "how long until it's beaten". If they wrote "easy" people would assume they'd be able to beat the game in 5 hours and wouldn't buy it.

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>>12871996
>It's behind two dragon quest entries. the game i'm referring to is the dragon quest of that year. dragon quest is clearly regarded as the superior series. only reason ct is that high at all is because the west memed it, and they cant have too many dragon quest games in the top 10
Depends on the list. >>12871814 has it at number 1 based on votes.
>only reason ct is that high at all is because the west memed it
I don't buy that. You already know how much Japan likes Dragon Quest, it shouldn't be that hard to believe Japan really did have a strong affection made by the Dream Team of Yuji Horii, Hironobu Sakaguchi, and Akira Toriyama. The game sold over 2 million copies within its first two months in Japan, the 2nd highest selling game of 1995 (yes, surpassed only by a DQ game, DQVI). People are going to remember it fondly.

Also, the gameplay is great.

>>12872073
The simple answer is Square and Final Fantasy was much more popular in America compared to Dragon Quest.

Dragon Quest didn't get any official Western releases for 16-bit consoles. So it hadn't been since IV on the NES, and I don't think III and IV sold well in America either. Late NES games, plus only Dragon Quest I really sold well, helped by Nintendo Power.

>>12868481
>linda3
“Anyone” being the operative term?

>>12868481
If nobody cared about Chrono Trigger before the hecking revisionism then why would they know about your tranny “resurfaced” hipster game?

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>>12872419
>You already know how much Japan likes Dragon Quest, it shouldn't be that hard to believe Japan really did have a strong affection made by the Dream Team of Yuji Horii, Hironobu Sakaguchi, and Akira Toriyama.
Specially given how much the game owes to Horii's style
>Kitase: Horii is extremely talented. He has an incredible way with words. He would check the dialogue of NPCs in towns, for instance, and just from those revisions alone you could get a strong sense of the “Horii style.” (laughs) He’d bring a lot of personality out of the dialogue just by tweaking one or two words.
>The thing about Horii, though, is that he tends to ignore the memory limitations we’re working under in favor of dialogue. But as developers that concern is foremost in our minds: don’t use up all the memory!
>Sakaguchi: Initially, Horii would draw up a rough sketch of the characters. The drawings he showed us were really bad. (laughs) But Toriyama said that was actually for the best. Their lack of detail and finesse meant that Toriyama wasn’t constrained by someone else’s designs. He had more freedom this way. (laughs) Frog’s character was created in this fashion, with Horii handing off a sketch to Toriyama.
>Sakaguchi: Yeah. We actually struggled a lot on how difficult to make the game. According to Horii, we should try and make it accessible and enjoyable for brand new players. That was the direction we went in. And actually, during the planning phase, we talked about lowering the number of battles and encounters so it could be completed in around 8 hours.
>Tokita: Also, Chrono Trigger began as the “dream project” between Sakaguchi, Horii, and Toriyama, and I think the public’s expectations can be described as “Dragon Quest + Final Fantasy == ????”

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>>12867940
Final Fantasy V rapes literally every JRPG ever made including this overrated dogshit, chrono trigger fags are the most obnoxious people on the planet fucking hell i'm so glad this shit didn't get anything more beyond the absolute failure of a sequel known as chrono cross

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>>12873731
CT's combat system is actually better than FFV's, because it doesn't encourage grinding over having fun. Most skills and jobs are trash, you still are forced to switch jobs just for that one skill or job bonus. By the time you have the perfect character, the game is already over. It gives you just an illusion of choice.
Whereas CT's dual tech system is always nice to see the animations and what new powers emerge from using two different characters.

The combat exemplifies exactly the real character of CT vs other games: it plays safe but it hits jackpot vs FFV's more complex but also grindy system.

>>12871959
This is the attitude of the modern Nintendo autist who insists that basedkey kong is actually suitable entertainment for an adult, and not a toy exclusively aimed at children.

If you think the “M” label on Turok or Tomb Raider means that it was totally mature adult entertainment and not designed for and played by almost exclusively by 10-15yo boys, you are coping and in denial about your own lack of maturity.

>>12873749
PSX becoming successful because it was specifically targetting adults isn't me saying it, it's Sony's CEO at the time. It's a well documented thing.
You've already started moving your goal post anyway by pretending that kids and teens are the same thing.

>>12873749
>M means it's for babies
So you can't read?

>>12871996
>does that really need to be proven
Yes, because idiots think easy and bad mean the same thing, or they are applying some narrow invisible artificial standard. CT has very good gameplay, with robust RPG systems under the hood and a simple 2D combat arena gimmick that adds a little flavor to the well-polished ATB engine. The ability layers trade up-front autism crack for accessibility, with lots of moderately impactful choices to make without any characters being substantially less useful than any of the others. Any party you can assemble will be effective. Meanwhile, there's still ways to min/max and exploit the game for autistics who really want to dig into the different formulas used for the various abilities. They can optimize their use of magic/power tabs and so on.

Meanwhile compare that to a game with actual trash gameplay, like Breath of Fire 1. Hours into the game you are still just spamming attack or using your magic item because there's nothing else to do.

Xenogears, where the deathblow system just boils down to a weird ass meta game for progression. In combat amounts to nothing more than an option between a many small hits or a few big hits, for 80 hours. The gear combat is marginally better but still rather tedious, often more about following mindless deathblow buildup attack patterns than making real decisions.

>>12868472
>Video games were exclusively for kids back then.
They weren't, although games for consoles largely were.

>>12867940
>that this was the literal GOAT videogame
It isn't.

>>12871809
this shit has undertale at 13
nuke Japan

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>>12875560
He won.

>>12867943
Bullshit. JRPGs were my fave genre. 44 years old. The most hard-core gamers I knew back then were all over JRPGs. Though Chrono Trigger was mostly considered to be too easy. High quality eye candy.

turn-based RPGs aren't video games, they're enhanced tabletop experiences

>>12868445
wooooah, what are those emails?!?! that's like a total time capsule. I'd love to read those hory shet

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>>12875781
Usenet, you can search archives with groups.google.com, or https://usenetarchives.com/

>>12869750
The west sucks of chrono trigger far more than Japan
The west also sucks off dbz far more than Japan
Not to say theirs not some japanese uncs that don't still shill chrono trigger or dbz but I bet money the average japanese gamer would consider a Nintendo game or even other square outings like ff4/5/7 more for best game of all time

>>12867940
It didn't sell well in the USA until the PS1 port and that version kinda sucked. It didnt get such a large following until later.

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>>12869154
>I know, you want your edgelord plots and spreadsheet crack. I like that stuff myself. But that's not all there is to the genre.
nta and I agree with you but

Whites were playing Mortal Kombat. The Japanese aesthetic didn't take over pop culture until at least a decade later.

>>12877026
Street Fighter was way more popular than MK in arcades. Even in the west.

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>>12875775

I loved it. But never assumed it was goated.
One cause that’s subjective. I loved earthbound but was told by multiple kids that the graphics sucked and it was made for gay babies. Meanwhile I could give a fuck about Disney games or sonic.
It probably wasn’t until the ps3 that I realized games weren’t just going to keep getting better and better.