>>3805177
it's too disappointing
the gameplay balance completely falls apart early on and they don't pay off all the setup with the surface world very well at all

>>3805185
I agree the gameplay should be better but I barely care because I just love the story characters setting music smooth battles way too much, they also left lots of stuff they didnt implement because Atlus was going through turbulent times as their parent company went bankrupt, a proper remake that implements the unused stuff would become my favorite game forever
Apocalypse for example has objectively better combat and yet I like it much less because I dont like the story at all
RPGs are much more than just their gameplay for me

I've found every SMT game to have broken resource management. In the case of this game, demon negotiation was the main culprit, when I would get area relevant demons and talk encounters away while also getting free money and heals.

>>3805188
I still like it a lot and I've been feeling the replay itch lately
I just know I'll be a little bummed out because it seems like it's going to be a lot better at the start than it feels looking back from the ending, story stuff included.

Dungeons suck.
Demons are super boring and have no identity thanks to multiple egregious factors.
It's genuinely one of the worst in the franchise. Thankfully 4F managed to salvage the good parts.

I made it to level 99 but could never beat the superbosses other than the archangels, they were some mean motherfuckers

I really don't like guest artists. If there were a remake in the style of 5, it would be goated.

Apocalypse is better but SMT IV is good as well. I like both a lot and will replay them in the future. OST in both is good. Combat is way better in IV: A. Post-game better in IV: A. Story better in IV: A.

>>3805241
You have to build specific teams in these games for superbosses or you get wrecked.

>>3805260
No you don't. There are a lot of winning combos. I forgot which I used by I definitely beat them all and had plenty of wiggle room. You just have to know the mechanics and figure out good patterns.

I did get the DLC to easy level though, and probably farmed some stat items but not overly done.

>>3805241
You generally shouldn't waste your time with Atlus superbosses, DLC superbosses especially.

VV is much better.

>>3805177
Maybe on planet retard. SMT5V is the best SMT I'm afraid.

>"best game ever" without proppa reasoning
Opinion immediately discarded

You can always tell who's only ever played one game in a franchise.

>>3805177
Nocturne was and still is atlus magnum opus. This game doesnt even hold a candle to nocturnes aesthetical appeal, philosophical dilemmas gameplay or character design and development.

>>3807530
OP here Ive played them all but I admit Ive only ever finished 4 and 4A because all the others bored me after around 15 hours or so

>>3807544
Oh Ive also beaten SJ, that was my introduction to SMT, it is also amazing.

>>3807530
I hope you aren't posting this in regards to SMTV just because you hate it. I really hope you don't assume that people who reasonably think V is much better than IV aren't newfags because you'd be calling a large majority of old fags in Japan that grew up with the series (you didn't) newfags as well. There is a reason these same people say V is like a return to form and IV is not.

>>3805177
I haven't played it yet (finished SMT I and II and Strange Journey) but the soundtrack is kickass
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd6zu7anvgQ

>>3805177
I hate people who clamour for remakes of everything but this is one game where I wouldn't mind a remake to iron out some of the issues.
Add some more real dungeons, rebalance the combat and fix up some of the more out of place guest art and it would be 10/10.
IV really feels like they were close to making something really special, there's just a bit of jank and poor execution getting in the way.

>>3807919
I think it needs a big rewrite pass no one would ever do for a remake. Like all the surface vs. tokyo stuff and class stuff being so thin and meaningless at the end instead of making that worldbuilding the core of the narrative really sucked. And that's just not how remakes have ever been done. Like think about taking it into your hands to rewrite stuff people who aren't at the company or even aren't alive anymore, no one is going to be that much of a cunt.

I love it but its biggest flaw are the 1/256 fiend encounters
What the FUCK where they thinking
>they are a reference to SMT1
I DONT CARE, AT LEAST MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO INCREASE THE ODDS SOMEHOW BY DOING OTHER THINGS IN GAME

>>3809212
who cares
if I would never know about it without a guide and never find it without a guide it doesn't exist

>>3809234
I care because they are unique fun fights and fusions to get

>>3809238
And they drop some of the best equipment in the game

Remind me how to do SMT4 builds. I think I did magic in my first game. Can you do fusions to make super swords for a strength build in this one like the SNES games?

>>3809397
Put all your points into Speed/Magic and get all the elemental spells + Concentrate + Megido, or put all your points into Speed/Dexterity and use guns to wreck shit. Strength literally doesn't work and there's no Vitality so an offense-only approach is not only viable, it's reasonable. There's no sword fusion like in 1/2/if... and melee weapons are essentially a side arm to your gun/magic skills.

Think we will see SMT6 this decade?

>>3809416
Absolutely not based on the last Sega report. P6 probably isn't even coming that soon either.
There is a fairly good chance VV gets new content in a Switch 2 update though and it gets packaged as DLC on other platforms.

>>3805177
bravely default is better as it is one of the few meaningful deviations of the 4 niggas in a row formula there has been since its inception. i still like SMTIV, but press turn really isn't that interesting. i liked devil survivor adding SRPG grid based combat more.

>>3809717
How? did the report say "we are lazy bastards"?

>>3809397
Is you're going for a Gun build (DX focused), Luck is absolutely broken if you get it high enough. It gives a flatout increase in Critical%. Pair that with Desperate Hit (which uses DX and is almighty and can crit) you can melt everything.
Or simply go with a pure LU+AG build with Hama/Mudo and Support/Heal skills.
Strength is only usefyl for the basic attack command for some reason (fixed in Apocalypse).

>>3809771
I loaded my SMT4 game and I realized I had two old saved game files, one where I'd apparently done 4 mag 1 agi per level and one where I'd done 1 dex 1 agi 3 luck. Both level 84 for some reason. I don't remember playing it twice but apparently I already did the gunluck build.

>>3809771
Gonna try 4 luck/1 agi for the hell of it, thanks for the idea

>>3807142
lol
lmao even

>>3805177
The neutral ending is a tedious PITA to get and a huge letdown. It is a good game but it really, really falls off at the end.

>>3810139
Good luck, anon. Remember that some bosses are actually vulnerable to Hama and some to Mudo.

Am I the only one that distributes points equally in these games

>>3810575
You are gimping yourself by making a jack of all stats build. You end up as a master of none

>>3810951
Yeah it makes the game harder which is the idea it also means you can be more versatile during the game and change up your character in the middle of it

>>3807530
That's SMT3 fans

>>3810575
I do that in action games like Nioh or Souls, but to me in a pure RPG using the systems is part of gameplay and not doing it is just not playing the game. Reasonable stuff based on choices anyway, not grinding to 999 in everything.

>>3805177
Does it have auto maps or are you supposed to draw it on the DS screen? Just wondering how feasible it would be to emulate on a Steam Deck or something.

(I wish I didn't sell my 3DS years ago. I really needed money and I thought that they would end up cheap like the DS anyway, so I could upgrade to a "new 3DS", but I waited too long and the prices are fucking retarded)

>>3811470
I've only emulated it on a desktop, where I have the main screen fill up most screen space and the subscreen be in a smaller area of the screen on the right hand side. If I hit a button on my controller the main screen and subscreen can be swapped between the bigger and smaller areas. When the subscreen is only being used as an automap it's usually good enough to use as a minimap without actually swapping the screens to look at it. I don't know if the deck has enough screen space available for both 3DS screens to be legible.

>>3811480
*and SMT4's areas aren't usually complex enough for a minimap to be that important anyway, it's not a serious dungeon crawler like Strange Journey or Etrian Odyssey

>>3811480
Oh okay, thanks. I thought being on the 3DS that maybe they had you drawing your own maps like in Etrian Odyssey or use the stylus and second screen in some way that would make it inconvenient.

(It's actually crazy that it's been this long and I still haven't played it. I thought maybe I would come across some deal or there would be some emulation devices that targeted 3DS, outside of the $1000 Ayaneo dual screen PC, but even if I just emulate this, so many games do depend on the form factor/features that at this point I probably should just save up and import a used new 3DS from Japan.)

>>3811401
Not mixmaxing is just another choice

>>3805177
Why does fucking everything need a remake? This game is barely over 10 years old, what would a remake accomplish? Turn it into complete shit like Strange Journey Redux?

>>3811530
Usually I dont like remakes but 4 is very clearly unfinished.

>>3811489
emulators can make both screens touchscreen-reactive

>>3811530
Just having it not be trapped on the 3DS and Citra would be cool. Etrian Odyssey has PC remakes, so I think they probably already would have done it if there wasn't some problem, like a legal problem.

>>3805177
>remake
ATLUS laughs at the mainline SMT fan after another P5 Collab with another shitty mobile game

>>3812097
I'm surprised there's not a cheap enough Chinese outsource mill to dump a sloppa port on Steam and Switch at least

>>3805177
SMT IV in particular gets really good if you play it with a self-imposed challenge like:
No demon whisper
No Gauntlet apps (or only buying a few apps)
Distributing Flynn stats evenly, when he levels up
On demon fusion always use the X button on the inheritance window

The game is so easy, might as well create some necessary challenge.

Man I'm replaying this and it kinda sucks

>>3818393
*you hit tokyo and the game becomes modestly non-linear in a way that interacts with their systems really poorly. Like if you go into some domain and see overlevelled basic enemies, they're still easy as shit to kill and the XP scaling means you'll gain ten levels in a flash just trying to find the exit and ruin your next 5 hours of main quest challenge and all your side missions. Or you go into a domain and the enemies are the same as everywhere you've been lately but it turns out the boss is 60 levels higher than you.

And then it goes on and on until you have lost all connection to the surface world storytelling stuff, which ends up being completely offscreened. I wish I'd just started a 4A replay instead.

>>3805258
>Story better in IV: A
no exaggeration, if you seriously think this you need to be shot

>>3821367
NTA but I'm so tired of retards on the internet saying IV:A is bad because it's Persona I'd troll about it too
It's just bad because it's bad

>>3821406
This post is BANANA CAKES

>>3809751
play final fantasy 5 void divergence

>>3824665
>Chrono Cross meets Bravely Defa
Nah fuck that shit.

>>3811530
Why does it bother you so much, just dont buy it.

First 10 hours are a genuine 10/10, then it slowly fizzles out to a 7/10 by the end of it. Still a great game of course

Jack Bros. > Every other SMT game

>>3805177
I loved watching the ending boss battles when I needed encouragement to finish my RPG

>>3805185
>>3805188
I agree with both these things. The setting, story etc are absolute top notch. But even though it was fun to have the amount of freedom you get in customizing your demons, by the end I was invulnerable and that's cool in some ways but also fairly quickly boring.

>>3821406
That criticism is only partly true, but only as a buzzword. The real issues with IV:A's story are that:
>it's written like a bad fanfiction in the sense it has to humiliate old characters to make space for its new ones, i.e. like nu-Star Wars
>it has a completely inappropriate tone for an SMT games for the vast majority of the game. Despite being called Apocalypse, it's really lighthearted relatively. And this is coming from someone who thought base IV was too lighthearted.
>ignoring the Law/Chaos endings, which are clearly bad ends, one ending completely forgets about how the setting works, and the other, while being more on theme for SMT, again needs to humiliate characters from the story its based on.

4 sucks because you have talkative faggots with you every step of the way. It's a crime how this was made the way it was. Could of had the best atmosphere in the series. 4 and beyond is just pseudo Persona. Great music though. Terrible designs.

>>3828356
Personally I didn't really care enough about the SMT 4 characters to get butthurt about 4A pooping on them so that was never my issue. I mostly just thought they really needed a whole alternate scenario for being down with Dagda like going with Akira in "If" instead of switching at the 11th hour. Like the whole game you use the teammate system even if you've told everyone outright you're going to betray them over and over. Even on a ludonarrative dissonance level it doesn't work. The lighthearted tone would have somewhat worked if that was only on the friendship scenario too, although the bad dialog would still be bad.

Hey last time I played 4A in Citra several years ago I did the save transfer thing from SMT 4. I remember that it crashes when you try it, but somehow I got around it back then and made it work. Sure enough when I tried it again it still crashes (I switched to a newer Citra fork and it was no help). I can't remember what my workaround was and can't find anyone mentioning whatever I did on internet searches. Anyone know?

>>3805185
>gameplay balance
Is megaten so it isn't made for babies or speedrunners is a game you enjoy while exploring.
This would be similar to complaining of strange journey which seems like has balance issues but only if you didn't pay attention at start.

>>3831698
It was an issue on main nightly/edge, never had issues with the EX, psycko and other forks by japanese.
But works quite fine, i even had installed the update and DLC in citra.

>>3828356
Is a spin off from main story based on chaos route as always, people see issues with it because the didn't bother to read the A was for alternate/another as well.
This is kinda similar to 4 referencing strange journey and rrusing some parts yet no one minds because to them is not a numbered title even when author went "is good enough to be a numbered entry but we weren't sure since was a DS title" which made sense back then before 4 released.
Some saw issues on nanashi appearance since was kinda feminine looking, some armor were skirts, maid uniforms and so on which wasn't common.
It wasn't lighthearted (what are u smoking?) the moment you start the game you get mc of 4 decapitating himself to summon taira no masakado, if ghat is "lighthearted" for you, you are messed up.

>>3832875
>Easier than a falcom/shitco game.
Lol
>More speedrun friendly than pokeshit thanks to the demons being 2d and having a text skip option
Lmao even

>>3828426
This is one of the many reasons I can't understand why IV's story is praised so much. When Johnathan and Walter stop to talk, it's like listening to brain dead toddlers experience the world for the first time. See something law or chaos related? Walter or Johnathan appear to say "holy shit, I think I agree with that..." and Isabeau shows up to complain that she can't make decisions. Majority of their dialog amounts to reminding you who is law, chaos, and neutral. Not even the first game did this with the alignment reps. Law hero was just a genuinely nice guy who couldn't understand how chaos hero was so angry at the world and vice versa. Dealing with ignorant characters basically learning how to walk and talk for the first time was one of the worst ideas they've had.

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I just played it and honestly....it kinda falls apart once you hit Tokyo. I thought the pacing, character building and atmosphere was peak in Mikado but then they throw it all a way and it's disappointing. The sudden alignment shifts and lilith using the Reactor comes out of nowhere and suddenly uh I guess we're doing the SMT1 thing and beating the shit out of angels and demons.

I'm enjoying SMT IV A plot a little bit more but I think my same critique about it not glueuing all together is still valid. Navarre and Dagda feel kinda awkwardly placed.

>game about main objective being killing god and his angels or the devil and his demons.
>still complain about shit no one cares besides them because of their ADD.
Story is good, gameplay is solid, is not for babies, clearly not for (you).

>>3833180
who are you talking to

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>>3833180
>Doesn't reply to posts directly
>Not even bothering with a jak
>Story is [Probably raised in a religious household and needs vifeo goymes to rebel]
>Gameplay is [Still sub shitco and falcom somehow]
Lol. Kwab even

>>3833194
The demons in his head

>>3809751
I loved Devil Survivor 1. Can't wait to get microwaved to death again.

>>3813688
>no demon whisper
So you just using attack the entire game? Id give Flynn at least status effect moves

>>3832879
>the A was for alternate/another as well.
Its called Final in Japan, I guess the F stands for Fuck you as well

>>3832879
people say "lighthearted" as a more sophisticated sounding way to complain about it having corny anime writing

>>3834170
But megaten has always been like that so their complain is mutt.
While is more mature lot of times is anime game with sex themes and nothing else, the most scary stuff is that they never did the ritual to calm the spirits to use them ingame specially taira no masakado.

>>3809771
how did 4a change strength?

>>3834283
mute
and no it's not

>>3834323
fuck I mean moot

>>380517
>get tetrakarn/makarakarn
> run over every boss with no effort

OMG such engaging gameplay!

>>3833120
I can't imagine being so anime brainrotted that you don't INSTANTLY slot IVA as a worse story than IV.
The very first cutscene alone is enough to permanently damn IVA as inferior, like I don't need to write 2,000 characters here because it's completely self-evident.

>>3835589
I'm not generally an Apocalypse story defender but living Luxuror Navarre is almost as corny as Apocalypse anime love triangles or Hallelujah. But Apocalypse is just relentless about piling more and more and more of that corn on.

>>3835566
you will run out of mp in 3 turns

>>3836321
That's what spirit drain and energy drain are for. I used tetra and maka on my mc for the entire time and never had an issue with mp

>>3836352
You dont get access to those moves until 40% into the game at least

>>3836554
first spirit drain user gets it at level 16

>>3835566
praise janus

>>3835589
<_<

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>>3835589
IVA's intro is fine up until Navarre appears. The game would have worked so much better if it was just Nanashi, Asahi and Dagda. The bloated cast of unlikable anime characters is the central issue, alongside the dichotomy being "power of friendship or be an evil maniac for some reason". Its baffling there isn't a Divine Powers route.

>>3838882
Yeah.
Nozomi sucks, Hallelujah sucks, Gaspard sucks, Taki sucks. Everything about them actively detracts from the game. Navarre didn't need to be a cartoon ghost, he could have just been alive and filled a plot role as the one that knows Mikado.

I agree with people that think Asahi should be a little tougher and meaner being a kid in a post-apocalyptic shithole where they eat demons.

>>3833096
A thousand times this. The allignments in IV are BY FAR the least nuanced they are in the entire series. It's like Atlus decided they needed this game to explain what allignments where for modern audiences.

What IV does well is having good atmosphere and vibes (which is, incidentally true of every single SMT game)

>>3839067
>>3838882
>______________>
dude go back to talking to us in the other thread dont just run out

>>3839067
>Nozomi
What the fuck were they thinking with that one. It's not even like she was that good in iv, but this feels like a dragon age 2 merrill situation but even worse.

>>3833096
Mikado is an interesting setting, including the class stuff
Mikado vs. Tokyo is an interesting dichotomy, as is playing Mikadoins in a fish out of water setup is interesting.
The red pills plot where law and chaos hero both get to show a shared basic humanity is a good place to start with before showing them diverge.
The white being a third faction is interesting

blasted tokyo and infernal tokyo are kinda weird. Theoretically it's all the white's plan to educate you about the need to escape law vs. chaos, but they both have very goal driven plots where you solve their problems and give them hope and the white explicitly had those goals in mind and used dream prophecy to set them up. Atlus also tries to use the time in those places to further walter and jonathan but both pretty much fail writing-wise. Walter is fine with neurishers despite being disgusted with the red pill setup, Jonathan is seemingly horrified that Pluto is part of god's plan but does nothing with that.

people that can headcanon past the bad shit that starts around this point because they love the start so much are the kind of people that jerk off IV's story

>>3839122
>fish out of water setup is interesting
My entire complaint is that this is genuinely awful. It's a horrible way to set up characters. They walk around utterly ignorant and only really speak to tell you that they agree with whatever law and chaos event just happened in front of them. That's not a way to build characters at all. If you're dealing with some kind of character that is becoming human for the first time, it's fine, but the entire cast feels like you're talking to robots.

>>3839139
Eh, I thought it was fine up until after Tayama. I knew Walter was going to be the chaos hero and Jonathan was going to be the law hero, but it didn't seem as inhuman as it had been in say SMT 1 and a lot of it was springing organically from the casualry vs. luxuror setting. Tokyo in general gets bogged down in too much bland RPG shit and bad combat in general and you do lose all focus on Mikado so the fish out of water/two worlds collide setting is mostly wasted, but it was an intelligent story setup.

>>3837423
you will get killed in the turns you spirit drain

>>3839540
The fact that you have to die to almighty spam to find out which bosses respond to tetrakarn with almighty spam is what makes me usually not bother trying it if I can just beat down a boss conventionally. But I don't do low level runs etc to need to break down the AI to that degree.

>>3839578
I think only the 1/128 chance fiends do that

Just got back to YHVH's universe in Apocalypse
It's like they just stuck a typical painful Atlus postgame slog that I always skip into the critical path of a game

>>3839142
>but it didn't seem as inhuman as it had been in say SMT 1
Did you play SMT1? Are you only talking about when the law hero gets his personality gutted because he died? If not I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

>>3807570
V is just a worse, gayer version of 3.

>>3840166
dont play smt1 or if

After getting like halfway through SMT1, I'm starting to feel it's not my thing. I'll assume SMT2 is the same, so will I enjoy SMT3 onwards or is it probably not for me?

tbdesu even if there is more "danger" and thought in the moment-to-moment gameplay in battles and exploration than in the average RPG, it becomes pretty manageable quickly enough even without grinding and I've realised it just became rather tedious for me. Maybe it's the added effort of playing in JP, although I don't think it changes much at this point, maybe it's playing the PS1 version on "normal" instead of expert, though I also don't assume just having a higher encounter rate and taking longer to become superior to enemies would elevate the experience for me. There is some cool shit in the story, but nothing so compelling to me that I feel like seeing it through to the end at this point. Also not a big fan of the presentation and feel in navigation while just mapping out a grid, even if it's labyrinthine and has traps to it.

I have admittedly always been relatively casual and this is my first time actually getting into the more dungeon crawly side of things, feel free to judge me on that, I'm disappointed at myself for not feeling like finishing it. Perhaps it's just IRL circumstances and if I had played some of the conventionally not so appealing stuff I've played that I like at another time I wouldn't have such fond memories of it either.

>>3840522
god shut up. what do you even like about games you stupid dumb shit

>>3840541
Cool settings and varied gameplay. If it's gonna be long-winded like SMT1 I would like it to keep me on my toes more. Would also be cool to have more than 10 or so music tracks, at least the boss theme is cool.

>>3840522
It's fine if something just isn't for you.

>>3840574
Yeah but does not feeling SMT1 mean SMT as a whole isn't for me?

>>3840452
>worse
Wrong
>gayer
Yes

But that's like saying P2 is bad because it's gayer, retard.

>>3840620
Not really, just means SMT2 might not be for you but even then 2 feels different enough that you might enjoy it.

Try some more and see what you think. I'd say jump into Nocturne, or 4 and 5 next. Those don't have the first person dungeon crawling so if that wasn't your thing you might enjoy them more.

>>3840546
III

>>3840522
I suggest skipping to 3

>>3840485
>>3840386
Too late I'm afraid, I've already played 1 and If. Estoma completely shutting off encounters in the SNES games really takes the edge off.

>>3840701
Yeah I've been spinning this around in my mind the past two days but I feel my biggest problem might just be the map design. Don't really like the fully explorable rectangle approach (couldn't come up with a better way to put it) to most of the areas.
At least if that's what it was I might be fine with SJ when I get there.

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>>3805177
>get to the end
>its just SMT1 again

>>3840522
You should be playing the SNES version

>>3838882
Asahi is such an annoying character, good Lord.
>"tee-hee, I'm the childhood friend + step-sister trope"
>"which means I kinda end up being useless so the protagonist would feel better about helping/saving me"
>"but also my main character arc is about trying to not be a waste of space!"
>"so I'll just rush into danger unprepared, even when I know I'm worse than a sack of potatoes!"
>"aren't I so thoughtful and brave?"
>"even if my impulsiveness repeatedly gets me in danger and my loved ones killed"
>"because, clearly, being 15 means I have the mental development of a golden fish with dementia"
>"oh, but the game actually calls me out on it?"
>"tee-hee, just kidding! it's time for me to repeat how much I want to help others word-for-word from the start of the game, thus throwing my character arc out of the window"
>"only this time the writing will act as if I had any development when I'm literally the same character, tee-hee!"

>>3842550
god shut up. stay my demons, i shall bitch slap this fucker with my own hands

>>3842622
But I'm right, though. You can be mad, but I'm not a liar.

>>3842918
You ARE WRONG

>>3843125
MARIO

>>3807530
That's 3 retard

>>3841852
I call those wormtrack mazes
I think it's just a maze algorithm from the era where dungeon crawlers hated to waste any cells in the map array because they were trying to conserve every byte of memory, obviously something you didn't need to do on sfc

>>3844122
>hated to waste any cells in the map array because they were trying to conserve every byte of memory
I reflect on this often when I see modern pajeetcode OSs just gobbling up billions of bytes of memory while "idling" at the desktop.

>>3842550
perfect housewife material

>>3842434
yeah no FUCKING SHIT retard its a throwback to all of the games in the series like look at the first two major bosses of SMT4 and look at the first two bosses of MT1 DURHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAH

What's the next most obscure SMT game (or spinoff that plays mostly the same, like Soul Hackers was very similar to SNES SMT) after Soul Hackers

I have played MT 1 and 2, all the SNES games, Soul Hackers, and all the main line games. I have tried but couldn't get into the TRPG one, Devil Survivor.