It perfectly executes its goal and isn't afraid to push boundaries to commit as fully as possible to its mission statement. It isnt for everyone but for people who it is for it is essentially perfect. Fuck (you) for complaining about one of the few actual novel concepts and games in a sea of absolute boring safe derivitave shit that has been the last few years

>>3828062
Caves Of Qud is derivative, though. It's a classic roguelike just like ADOM. That's not a bad thing. It's an absolute timeless masterpiece just like ADOM is.

It's ok to be derivative. All art is derivative. You were trained on your previous experiences. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to enjoy the game in the first place.

https://youtu.be/jcvd5JZkUXY?si=i3wVsQ0h5unNL_zr

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>>3828062
>push boundaries

>>3828002
you got filitered

Offtopic pedant and political nonsense. Actually ironically onbrand for a qud post such that If you enjoy being confused at how fucking idiotic and incoherent people here are youll love the game!

>>3828079
>classic roguelike
It's nothing like Binding of Issac though!

>>3828002
Caves of Qud is more a modern take of 80s RPGs than roguelikes.

troon game

I'm about to go to Bethesda Susa for the first time. A bit nervous, since I never made it past Golgotha before. I heard that you want to have a good reputation with the Mechanimists before attempting, so I'm debating getting that reputation up since I recruited the leader before finding out. Having a True Kin with treads really is amazing for the extra movement speed.

I just want more Gamma World-inspired games in general

>>3828002
I remember it was around the time Sseth made his video that devs revealed themselves to be unhinged lefties.

>>3828434
they couldn't handle so much exposure

>watching content creators. Obsessed with buzzwords because empty inside and mentally fragile
Its okay for some of you to admit you dont understand english well enough to play this game you know, ya it can be hard to grasp the dialogue if you read at an elementary level.

>>3828433
That's been the joy of the OSR fad leaking into video games. Finally getting some more retro inspired game design and settings

>>3828438
Anon most RPGs are inspired by old school DnD. Honestly they're more retro than most current tabletop rpgs

>>3828453
One look at the majority of the catalogue on this board would indicate most modern rpgs aren't close to something like old tabletop rpgs in the slightest unless you're going to suggest that anything fantasy/party/adventuring related counts. Especially given how many action adventure games or "subersion" genre stuff like undertale is sitting there right now. Even owlcat games dont feel much like a retro design rpg, people just see stats and math and assume I suppose. I wont even adress the comment about "currebt tabletop rpgs" since that's just wrong if you leave a barnes and noble or whatever you hamburgers shop at and actually see what is being played outside of popgames

>>3828478
Almost every DRPG I've ever seen wears its old school influence on its sleeve. Same with most roguelikes that veer into rpg territory.
>that's just wrong
It's really not. The OSR movement is healthy, but narrative games like Blades in the Dark, PBTA variants, and Daggerheart, as well as DnD 4e inspired tactical games like Lancer, have never been more in vogue. Both stray heavily from old school design principles

>>3828434
Isn't this the guy who is unhinged to the point he had a meltdown over someone wanting to join a faction in his game? That is legitimate mental illness.

>>3828769
it was a Christofascist antag faction and it was requested for in a disingenuous way

>>3829060
And that justifies a screaming meltdown because...

>>3829104
You have to make it scary/inhospitable for conservatives because most of them shit up communities with their misanthropic antisocial behavior. A lot of them are incapable of being chill and leaving it at dogwhistles. Be "based" and they'll like you in the short term only to hate you in the long term. You're considered cool for allowing playable fascist factions temporarily before they get pissed at you for adding playable women/races and believing in the holocaust.

It happened to Daniel Varva of Kingdom Come Deliverance. He was always a libertarian edgelord, but his fans became radicalized over time and hated him for his libertarian position. You have to nip it in the bud before it gets bad and it ended up paying off.

>>3828002
You have to be schizo to enjoy this game. You simply got filtered. Schizophrenic games made by schizophrenic people will always be the best. You’re simply a normie, OP.

>>3831476
True, conservatives are good social cohesion poison ironically.

>>3831476
>believing in the holocaust
>It happened to Daniel Varva of Kingdom Come Deliverance
It's actually because he's Jewish and just couldn't help himself from shitting up the second game.

>>3831477
This is the most mainstream trad roguelike of all time, it's incredibly popular. It's not your niche schizo game

>>3829060
>and it was requested for in a disingenuous way
qrd? I've always heard it as the dev having an inability to tell fantasy from reality.

>schizo lefty devs
>fanbase is schizo lefties seething at conservatives
just look at the fag doing damage control for a mid game because it appeals to his politics

>>3831476
>You have to make it scary/inhospitable for conservatives because most of them shit up communities with their misanthropic antisocial behavior. A lot of them are incapable of being chill and leaving it at dogwhistles. Be "based" and they'll like you in the short term only to hate you in the long term. You're considered cool for allowing playable fascist factions temporarily before they get pissed at you for adding playable women/races and believing in the holocaust.

Did you overdose on your meds?

>>3828205
Binding of Issac is nothing like Rogue either.

This is decidedly not very live and drink in this thread my dudes.

Qud-heads out there. Is the narrative mode worth it for people who are dumb like me and most of the people in here? I dont think I have the capacity to do all the math shit, and the moment to moment gameplay in the random areas isnt fun for me. I have no desire to git gud and play procedural shit anymore. Thoughts? I tried the recommended builds and found they were much harder than doing the robo people as well. So that was weird. I want to like this game but Im getting too old and dumb for rogues that are this complex

>>3828079
ADOM stinks

>>3831727
What the fuck is Rogue? We're talking about video games here, not classes from Baldur's Gate III.

>>3831719
>>3831481
It’s just some Jew trying to rationalize their oppression of what everyone wants, as you can plainly tell by the absurdist strawmans and adamant denial that anything caused by Jewish influence could be rightfully criticised.

>>3831768
I think he means Rogue Legacy, that's the game the name roguelike comes from.

>>3831793
You're slightly confused. Rogue legacy is the first rogue game. The legacy is referring to Hades, the prequel, which is the first roguelike

>>3831804
>>3831793
You people are idiots the first roguelike was Diablo which had a Rogue class.

>>3828002
im a gameplaychad and this became one of my USB apocalypse games almost immediately. It earned a spot next to the iceblitz wc3 file.

>>3831730
narrative mode seems wierdly harder. Follow the guide on qudzoo and learn all the cheese so you can do it with less guidance later. it's still pretty difficult with the permadeath.

>>3828002
Tranny game. Not an RPG.
>t. one of the first people to ascend when 1.0 dropped, played this since the old deathlands

>>3829060
OK? this is the same game where you can cut off a dudes face and wear it for bonuses and waltz into a village and kill everything but being a chud is too far?
>>3831476
cope of the highest order. this isn't 2016. ive seen niggas who believe in redpill/blackpill philosophy who exist in leftie spaces just fine because the leaders don't sperg out and ban them and nothing happens because a person not being left doesn't automatically mean they're an irrational misanthrope (surprise). and the same shit about "dogwhistles" and shifting politics in a group could be said about lefties. you people can't ditch the slippery slope fallacy if your life depended on it

>>3831494
TL;DR - flipping the narrative to save face

There is a quest to join the main protag faction, the Barathrumites, but when people asked if they can join other factions like the antag faction, Putus Templars, devs lost their shit. Average players saw templars as a cybernetic enhanced knights fighting against mutants.
The devs made the templars deliberately into a Christofascists strawman with slavery, inbreed sense of 'purity', restrictions to brain function, humiliation rituals and so on. You can read the wiki:
https://wiki.cavesofqud.com/wiki/Putus_Templar
But the troons view mutations as equal to their transitions, therefor the mutant are the good guys. The devs concluded that the only reason for you wanting to join the templars means you are a Christofascists IRL. Banning people discussing the templars, their lore, asking how to join them or even releasing patches that conflict with mods that make them playable. When they received a lot of backlash they tried to save face by flipping the narrative and pretending the players were 'disingenuous'. Here is the devs statement to some things regarding the templars:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/333640/discussions/0/3005549744946532986/

>>3832915
I remember this. They proceeded to make up some utter dogshit story about "fascist raids" from fucking e-celebs like Sseth. it was retarded beyond description.

>>3832915
>But the troons
Into the trash you go.

>>3832915
Funniest thing is, even after all the changes to try and make the Templars come off as le ebil villains, if you purely go by in-game lore they're not only 100% in the right, the more you learn about the lore the more you realise they are actually the good guys of the setting. Retarded devs couldn't even manage getting that "right".

>>3833007
Well, he's not wrong.

>>3833007
it's true though
>npcs are troon
>devs are troons
>players are troons

anyway it's pretty fun game, but the replayability is surprisingly low, as there's so few interesting mutations, cybernetics, items and side quests.
it's a decent base sandbox, but it badly needs much more content.

>>3831476
>right wing people are extremely vocal about their principles and relentlessly push them in every community they're part of
man i wish this was true. unfortunately most are just happy if you don't include they/them pronouns.

>>3833036
Rent free.

>>3833036
Based troon namer

>>3828062
>novel
>pushes boundaries
Bruh, it's not a bad game, but it isn't as unique or revolutionary as you think. It's genre 1:1.

>>3833128
NTA, pushes boundaries may be a bit much but it's definitely novel. Novel doesn't mean "literally never done before" otherwise nothing would ever be novel. An RPG/roguelike being heavily inspired by games like gamma world instead of DnD is pretty novel. The gonzo nature of the mechanics (and setting) plus the way it allows the player to mess with them for emergent results is pretty novel too.

>>3833128
If you truly played the game and walked away feeling like 'yup that's just like a bunch of games I currently have installed' I kinda feel bad for you. Rogueshit is super trendy, but done like this is really unusual for a lot of reasons, and done to this quality is rare too

>>3828002
... "too quirky"...?! What are you even fucking talking about. Don't bother trying to answer that, it's a rhetorical question.
No one is interested in your feces. Go play with it on your own somewhere else, far away, quietly.

>>3828205
Binding Of Isaac is a nu-slop bullet hell with procedural elements. It is not a roguelike rpg at all. Like. At all. You might as well say Skyrim is a platformer because you can jump and move. Resident Evil is apparently an RPG because there's items you can find and equip while exploring.

>>3831744
1. Kill yourself.
2. No.
3. Fucking kill yourself.

>>3833325
You will never be a woman.

>>3833304
>>3833317
Just check the Traditional Roguelike tag on Steam and you'll see a plethora of games that are similar, it doesn't detract from the game's qualities but come on now

>>3833328
Based and correct.

>>3828002
>ITT political posturing
who would've thought lmao.

>too quirky
Q-girl was lame but that's all I can really remember. I thought it was gonzo not quirky.

I played it a bunch and thought it was overall kind of mid de sue. Lots of cool ideas and really interesting systems, but I remember virtually none of my actual experience playing it. For reference I played probably over 50 characters and the furthest I got was tattooing yourself with the mark of death or whatever to get into the big spire thing. My favourite character type was max Ego Domination + Proselytize + Beguile Esper to have a little army. I remember at one point I had managed to take in all 3 of the big trolls in Bethesda Sutha into my service somehow, which felt cool but it made my game run like shit cause of the little trolls.
Really I just played the game to see how high a level I could get my guy before dying since that's all there was to do beside the main quest. You can make some pretty interesting characters, but for all the mutations and cybernetics and perks, all they meaningfully change is combat and faction reputation (which only influences combat and prices to my memory). the game has lots of deep systems, but there isn't actually a lot to DO with them. Flurry + Berzerk + multiple arms + chimera was pretty cool I have to admit. overall I don't really recommend it other than for curiosity.

>>3833014
>if you purely go by in-game lore they're not only 100% in the right, the more you learn about the lore the more you realise they are actually the good guys of the setting. Retarded devs couldn't even manage getting that "right".
How so?

>>3833420
I've played a ton of traditional roguelikes, do you care to name any names?

>>3832915
>5. The devs are all furry communists
>Only SOME of the devs are furry communists
Kek

>>3828002
Took 14 years to finish btw

>>3833420
Name them. Name even three. Go ahead. It should be really easy. Open the tag and name just three that are legitimately similar within the first 50 entries and don't include the early access games that are obviously riffing on Qud

>>3831730
>This is decidedly not very live and drink in this thread my dudes.
You do know what the dev is, right? And I don't mean furfag although I guess it's not a coincidence either probably.

>>3833128
>isn't as unique or revolutionary
What other RPG uses Markov chains?

>>3833545
Here's the secret. I dont fucking care. I dont get on a moral high ground. I dont follow parasocial streamer and internet drama culture. I dont care if the dev is a gooner or groomer or furry or otherwise problematic person. I dont care about nolifers who give a fuck about dumb shit like who the dev is and what they do

I play THE GAME and I talk about THE GAME.

>>3833554
>game has a bunch of gay furfag shit it it
>surely this has nothing to do with the devs being gay furries

>>3833557
>explicitly tells you Idgaf about the dev
>hey listen the dev reeeee
What are social skills? You cant convince me to give a shit about your little manufactured drama. Scoot off to summer camp now dear

>>3833554
>I dont care if the dev is a gooner or groomer
Oh, you're a fellow Epstein enthusiast then. Figures.

>>3833557
>>gay furfag
LOL if only just that.

>>3833559
>>I play the game and talk about the game
>explicitly talk about content that is in the game
>>n-no I didn't mean like that!
Is being illiterate a symptom of the same disorder that makes you a gay furry?

>>3833497
The Eaters imprisoned Ptoh on/in Earth. It's not clear exactly how but the Amaranthine Prism has something to do with Ptoh, and it's only really attractive to mutants, who it drives insane and eventually kills. Every mutant is a risk of becoming a thrall of Ptoh, because even mutants who don't posess any esper powers have a possibility of developing them unless they are explicitly possess the Chimera genotype, which would be impossible to prove.
tl;dr Templars are unironically justified in subjugating mutants for the good of all.
Anyway, the idea of Templars being the last vestiges of the Eaters, continuing to carry out a duty they no longer remember or even understand is way more compelling than "we enslave people because evil, lmao". But that would have required the devs to not be utter hacks.

That's without even mentioning some of the later dumb shit, like Qud being a failed state with goatpeople as the most populous inhabitants, the fact that there's apparently an entire city/civilization out there ruled by slaves of Ptoh, or "joining a homicidal hive-mind is a good thing actually, respect my choices bigot"

>>3833562
kek

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>>3831768
>>3831793
>>3831804
>>3831805
Nah you guys are thinking about Yahtzee, the first true roguelike with random outcomes and endless replayability. No two games are the same.

>>3833569
>Anyway, the idea of Templars being the last vestiges of the Eaters, continuing to carry out a duty they no longer remember or even understand is way more compelling than "we enslave people because evil, lmao".
I agree.

>Qud being a failed state with goatpeople as the most populous inhabitants
Eh, there's at least as many Swardym and species-indeterminate mutants. Qud very much is a "failed state" and that's ok.

>the fact that there's apparently an entire city/civilization out there ruled by slaves of Ptoh
How is that dumb tho?

>or "joining a homicidal hive-mind is a good thing actually, respect my choices bigot"
Tau being extremely retarded is fine. All of Chavvah is quite retarded hard world-wise. It makes sense the dumbass thing gets pissy on a reasonable walkthrough of the quest.

>>3833592
>eh, there's at least as many Swardym and species-indeterminate mutants
Svardym who are equally universally hostile to outsiders, just like the Goatfolk are. Even with all of the procgen villages, count up the amount of Goatfolk villages you'll run into in a regular game and you'll see they outnumber the 'civilized' inhabitants of Qud, and by a significant degree.

>How is that dumb tho?
There's nothing wrong with it from a lore perspective. My point is that the world is fucked, and it's not getting better. It's retarded to present the Templars as this kind of ultimate evil when there are so many other things that are just as bad or even worse. The Templars at least have a justification for what they do, more so even than the bears who have sat in a cave for 1000 years and contributed nothing of value to the world.

But no, the Templars have to be ebil so the devs can pat themselves on the back for teaching players about the evils of fascism or some shit.

>>3833591
I love yahtzee because there aren't people in steam forums or watching some asshole on a livestream who then come here to manufacture outrage about how the straight 5s arent straight anymore

>>3833604
Really liked the amount of goatfolk stuff, it was a nice little lore nugget how frequent it was

>>3833337
You will never be a man.

>>3833501
Tales Of Maj'Eyal is solidly decent. Not, like, in-depth and amazing, but very solidly decent. Also free-to-play I think without the expansions, and there's lots of mods, some good some just amateurish.

>>3833634
Thanks for letting me know I hit the nail on the hand. Disgusting troon.

>>3833682
If the dev is a furry because of mutant animal human hybrids in the game, you're a trans groomer because of your horny hyperfixation in this thread according to the logic above

>>3833687
>your horny hyperfixation
keep coping, seething and projecting

>>3833635
I love ToME, I have almost 200 hours on it (still no roguelike win lmao). It's not very Qud-like though, outside of having an open world. And even then they handle their worlds differently.

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>>3828478
>One look at the majority of the catalogue on this board would indicate most modern rpgs aren't close to something like old tabletop rpgs in the slightest unless you're going to suggest that anything

While this is certainly true, the complication is that modern tabletop rpgs are also aren't close to old tabletop rpgs. The genre has changed fundamentally everywhere.

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>>3833687
>dev is a furry
>check twitter
>they worship india

>>3833794
>check twitter
I don't know why you do that to yourself. What possible reason is there to waste energy on that. Genuine curiosity. A game comes out, I think its maybe good, 'acquire' it, and then decide if I wanna play or not.
Never do I think "oh this game is XYZ I'll go search the dev's social media" like who cares? Why subject yourself to that. It's like a weird irony to do so when it comes to Qud as well given the theme of the game

>>3833863
Because some of us have principles and care about things beyond just what makes us feel good.

>>3833893
>have principles
>actively participate here
Fucking insane take

>>3828002
>caves of chud

>>3833788
No it hasn't. The genre has grown and expanded.
The old books are still there. You can literally just go play whatever edition from whatever year you want. Like, no one is gonna stop you. There are no gestapo prowling on the hunt for dorks furtively gathering in basements to play 2nd edition D&D.

Go play whatever game you want. They don't just poof out of existence. They're still there. You can still read them. It's not fucking ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs.

Now, on a more serious and sincere note, I invite you to introspect and think carefully about what it means that fewer people still use the old systems and why that might be. Have you ever actually played an old edition of D&D from the 1900s? Have you? Because for some reason I don't believe you have.

And I don't believe you ever will.

But I do believe you want people to think you have and do. You'll be a lot cooler when you stop trying to seem cool, kiddo. And the first step to coolness is to stop gooning in your dad's storage closet full of old pop music from 1980. It's trite and passé now. It had its moment. And everyone got tired of it and moved on. It's not fresh and undiscovered. It's old and worn down because everyone has gotten sick of it. It's only fresh and new to YOU because you're a child.

Leave the old dead editions of D&D to rest in their graves unmolested by the hands of foolish, reckless youth.

>>3833682
The idiom is "hit the nail on the head", you silly little goon. You're all over this board and your wannabe-confident straight-from-YouTube alt-right-Russian-pipeline posturing is extremely identifiable. Reading through these threads and then seeing what is very obviously YOU popping up so frequently in threads about games you obviously don't even play... is giving my anal ring the workout of my life as I just didn't think I could physically cringe this hard for so long. Try playing some video games or going for a walk or something. Get off of 4chan. Put your phone down, go tell your mom you're sorry.
Yeah, you're upset that you got called out for being a little kid in the other thread, but dude... dude. Seriously. Shut the fuck up. You are the problem in your life. Shut. The fuck up. And get off 4chan until you're eighteen at the very least.

>>3833928
>delusional tranny has a schizo breakdown
It was autocorrect btw. Yes I am a filthy phone poster.

>>3833990
As if that were even close to the most repulsive thing about you. Toddle on back to your high chair before your mom finds out you've been shit talking on 4chan again.

>>3833794
kinda makes sense. golgotha was probably heavily inspired by for example ganges, and the world at large by the immense amount of horrible mutations that are so common in india.

>>3833794
>Several of us don't even think England is real
Based homofaggots.

>>3834045
Golgotha is where Christ was crucified and its believed Adam's skull is buried, hence Golgotha which means "place of the skull." If it's a shithole in this God forsaken game it's probably just the devs being le edgy anti Christians.

>>3833928
making some sort of metaphor about anal rings and having the temerity to call anyone else cringe is wild

>>3833926
>No it hasn't. The genre has grown and expanded. The old books are still there. You can literally just go play whatever edition from whatever year you want.

I never meant to imply you couldn't. Just the same as you can go play the old crog goldbox games any time you like. What I meant is that new table top rpgs as you say, have grown and expanded. The same thing happened with computer rpgs as did tabletop.

>Now, on a more serious and sincere note, I invite you to introspect and think carefully about what it means that fewer people still use the old systems and why that might be. Have you ever actually played an old edition of D&D from the 1900s? Have you? Because for some reason I don't believe you have.

I mostly played 2nd E D&D for much of the 90's with smatterings of the West End Games Star Wars tabletop. Then into World of Darkness a while in the 00's before fading out of the hobby. My experience with newer systems is from having listened to a handful of rpg podcasts here and there.

I understand fully why people who play now use the newer systems over the older ones. Part of the same reason I liked AD&D over D&D. I see it as pretty much the same reason why most people now would rather play Baulder's Gate or Dragonage than Curse of the Azure Bonds.

I don't see anything bad here, it's just how things evolve over time.

>>3834273
>it's just how things evolve over time.
More like how lack of gatekeeping allows a hobby to be dumbed down to the point it's unrecognizable to the original enjoyers. Also faggots and trannies.

>>3834285
You should have been gatekept.

>caves of qud thread devolves into a weird surreal breakdown right out of a psychosis journal
Is this what the kids call Larp???

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>>3834303
You like this, do you?

>>3834285
>Also faggots and trannies.
The irony. A lot of the people I played tabletop games with back then were openly gay and several have transitioned now. I can't speak much for tabletop war games like Warhammer for example, but tabletop rpgs have always had a lot of gay and variously queer people playing.

>>3834405
>projecting your freakish friend group on everyone else
Not a single person I played with is a fag or a tranny. Most are married with kids now.

>>3834423
WoD started attracting queer people to the hobby in the early 90s. I imagine a lot of them liked pretending to be elves before that too, but that's harder to say for sure

>>3834423
>>3834437
When did you start playing and were most active? Also where. Different places have different cultures, a lot of the southern US was obsessed with the satanic panic while it never even registered elsewhere. My experience is southern Ontario first getting into AD&D around 1993 or so. It might be that we're generally pretty progressive but we didn't really care. Luke playing a horny flamboyant elf was par for the course.

>>3834402
That can't be real lol

>>3834468
No, it's just that you're a faggot and you surrounded yourself with faggots.

>>3834285
Everyone here who was actually alive in those days immediately recognizes that you were not. Tabletop games were the refuge of outcasts, dorks, freaks and geeks. It literally was a safe space before the concept of "safe space" existed. Autism wasn't even really understood in those days. There wasn't a concept of "transgender", they were just gay. You didn't "enjoy" games, you played them. No one was gatekeeping, because no one had to: to be associated with games was to be profoundly uncool. No one admitted they played games to anyone who didn't also admit they played games. It was a secret shameful thing that got you stuffed in lockers and trashcans at school.

There was no dumbing down. That's not what happened. Instead, what happened is that games became more socially acceptable - and thus more profitable. And thus there became a desire to make them a more formal experience, with rules that weren't just Mother May I and Calvinball. The concept of "game design" began to emerge, and the notion that you could critique and alter the "design" became a topic for debate and analysis.

And elsewhere in culture it became less stigmatized to be a nerd. It became acceptable to acknowledge that humans are different on an individual level. It's not that it wasn't known. It just wasn't allowed to be discussed.

Or, in other words, the dissolution of gatekeeping allowed the nerds, freaks and geeks to exist in the open and expanded and revitalized what was a niche (and dying) interest in a tiny socioeconomic demographic. If the ostracization of nerds hadn't faded around the turn of the century, there would be no RPGs today.

And YOU wouldn't have survived high school.

>>3834502
I'm 42. I played football, hockey and D&D in HS. Get fucked, faggot.

>>3834502
Rekt.
>t. was there, it’s true

>>3834502
>It was a secret shameful thing that got you stuffed in lockers and trashcans at school.
You're giving yourself away here. This is a movie trope that didn't really happen. Yeah kids got bullied (and still do), but not like that.

>>3834507
And when you were meeting someone for the first time, which were you more proud to tell a stranger, that you played football, or played DnD? Don’t lie to me, I did both too.

>>3834513
You're giving yourself away there. It literally happened more than eight times that I personally witnessed, to five different boys, just during the four years I was in high school. So, I mean, you can just say whatever? And claim that things don't happen? And no one can stop you saying whatever the fuck.

But you also can't stop us telling you to shut the fuck up. Life protip, kiddo, you are still foldable whatever age you are, and the best defense against getting folded is to shut. the fuck. up.

>>3834563
Eight times? To five different people? In only four years? Something about that just doesn't add up.

>>3834563
whereabouts do you come from, where the slang for roughing someone up is to "fold" them? that's hilarious, like some kind of paper mario minor villain who says "get folded kiddo" when you fight him lol

>>3834502
>to be associated with games was to be profoundly uncool. No one admitted they played games to anyone who didn't also admit they played games. It was a secret shameful thing that got you stuffed in lockers and trashcans at school.
Nah man, I'm with >>3834507 on this one.

You were bullied for being a fat ugly autistic nerd, not for playing D&D. School theater chads loved D&D since it became D&D, and always were the core audience. Math nerds always were a minority. Hence the continuous development away from minmax autism (which had a rather limited presence even in the earliest D&D) and towards an RP platform.

>>3834661
>School theater chads loved D&D since it became D&D, and always were the core audience. Math nerds always were a minority.
Zoomer revisionism

>>3828079
>boring safe derivitave shit
The clue is in the first two adjectives describing shit.

>>3834405
>>3834502
You are literally proving his point. The fact they were present in the environment back then proves they have been in a position to ruin the medium once identity politics took over in recent years and opened the can of worms.

>>3834569
Go ask your math teacher to explain to you how it's possible for things to happen multiple times to someone.
>>3834661
What you believe doesn't matter. It does sound like you're really worried about policing who is allowed to be described as "bullied" though. Are you doing ok in school? Does your dad hit you sometimes when you deserve it? Have you told your teachers or anyone about that? Are you worried they won't believe you? Why would they not believe you?

>>3834766
You're making a leap of logic based on modern propaganda, rather than on documented history. History is not just whatever suits the needs of your narrative today. It's also not just whatever some douchebag on youtube ranted about while he was streaming himself feeding in that League Of Legends match. Revisionism is done with a motive: someone's been lying to you. Ask yourself why they would do that.

>>3835018
Brother you need professional help.

>>3835018
Please lurk 200 years before posting.

>>3832915
>>3833504
>>Only SOME of the devs are furry communists
Which basically translates to all of the devs are furry communists or their sympathizers. I've never seen a furry communist put up with anything outside of their thought-bubble, left, right OR center of the spectrum. So if some of them are furry communists, either the rest of the group are JUST communist/furry, or they are cowtowing in fear out of troll's remorse. The furry-commie devs would have ousted anyone who disagrees or they would have left if they weren't in power and couldn't find a way to seek it.

>>3834661
>School theater chads
lol

dude, get real.

The acceptance of nerds into society has been bad for both mainstream folk and "avant garde" nerds all in all. Everything about our culture has become fake and hyper-real as it all becomes carcinises into a shapeless blob of vapid consumerism.

>>3834766
Okay. I don't see that as bad. You getting your panties in a twist because gay and trans people exist isn't my problem. If you feel unwelcome because you're bigotted that's fine by me. Tabletop gaming has gotten better over the years from what I've seen.

>>3828002
I don't think Qud is horrible, it's just clear that they weren't really able to iterate on the premise very well.
It was basically in a finished state 5 years ago, or it may as well have been. Development has been nightmare slow, and it's clear they spent all their good ideas on the premise.
That being said, at least it's polished. I love this genre of game, and it might be the only polished example that actually has the immersive sim elements I like. Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode is another example, and Elona.
Most games lean too hard in the roguelike direction for me.

>>3835088
>>3835115
You're twelve. I could wait till next Thursday to post this and you'd sincerely believe it had been two hundred years.

>>3835524
>Which basically translates to all of the devs are furry communists or their sympathizers

Your schizoid hand wringing delights me

>>3835805
Newfag-san...

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>>3831476
Your finger wagging speech policing led you to losing twitter, the presidency, the house, and the senate and a great deal of centrist and moderates. You created a whole new generation of right wing zoomers are sick of you paper thin holier than pathos. I've been in a pathfinder zoom stream with my conservative friends doing dumbbell curls with my rifle sitting next to me on the floor. We have a great deal of fun without you and our discord meme channel is far superior to yours. faggot.

>>3831480
Ever since I've cut liberals/progressives out of my life it has improved significantly. I used to drive a prius, I had a subscription to mother earth news, watched the daily show almost every day, donated to public radio... now I loathe you people with a burning hatred. My conservative friends treat me way better than my past liberal "friends" ever treated me.

>>3833007
You have the entire heavily moderated internet to be protected but yet you come here, 4chan of all places and get your pink and blue panties in a twist. Maybe you should downvote his comment with your account and your 6 sockpuppets to really stick it to him.

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>>3835524
They claim to be open minded but that DEMAND that everyone toe line and purity test super hard. One wrong word or viewpoint and you are deemed "toxic and problematic."
>>3835810
We're done being gaslit by you people.

>>3833541
>not my job to educate you
you can always go back

>>3836129
Lol

>>3836130
>claim something exists which doesn't
>get called out for spewing bullshit
>not my job to educate you
>you can always go back

We can all tell that what you think a traditional roguelike is some action shooter with random loot

>>3835780
>>Tabletop gaming has gotten better over the years from what I've seen.
>play D&D in TYOOL 2025
>all races are “people too”
>ability score bonuses no longer tied to race
>“orcs aren’t inherently evil, they’re misunderstood”
>statblocks scrubbed of “savage” or “barbaric” descriptors
>beholder isn’t paranoid racist anymore, just quirky
>Vistani (gypsies) rewritten in Curse of Strahd because “problematic stereotypes”
>drow society toned down, not all matriarchal sadists anymore
>“Lolth cultists bad, but lots of drow are just chill guys bro”
>“evil races” rebranded into “evil cultures” now “no race is inherently evil”
>remove “race,” use “species”
>phb text combed for “problematic language”
>add disclaimers in old modules on DMsGuild about “outdated depictions”
>everyone can use any background + stats combo
>gender-neutral language everywhere
>“inclusive adventurers”
>all cultures are “valid,” none inherently oppressive
>combat wheelchair

>>3836359
>remove “race,” use “species”
They’re accidentally so close to recognizing multiple sub-species of humans.

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>>3836359
Them gendered monsters like Hags Mariliths and Sphinxes all gender neutral in the new monster manual really pissed me off. Cant even have sexy snake demonesses anymore, everything needs to be a generic and middle of the road as possible

>>3836359
I was talking more about the mechanics of combat and having different classes having much more interesting choices which makes fighting shit more fun than in earlier systems. What you're talking about is mostly lore which can easily be changed. If you want to run a campaign where orcs are evil and Drow are as weird as they ever were, you can. Want to add race / gender stat modifiers when character creating for your campaign? No one is going to stop you, it's your game, that's the point.

>>3836407
>disingenuous faggot ignores the mechanical changes to make the game align with the woke worldview
shocking
It's a shit argument anyway. The lore can be house ruled? Wow no shit, so can the actual rules.

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Troons ruin every forum. They try to turn everything into reddit. The speech policing is what turns people against you. The tranny mods here are the same as everywhere else. Troons fundamentally can't handle the truth. That's why troons are so Ban happy.

>See thread about caves of qud
>Cool
>Derails into a political debate
Sad state. Doesn't help that the devs and the playerbase are absolutely nuts.
I always liked the world, that's what got me in, didn't play the story for the first 30 or so hours. My disappointment when the plot is about some weird geeks living in a basement was brutal.
In my head I had created all these cool stories about how factions came to be, about the ruins that I found and about the drifters that you come by. And then boom, some weird characters le chungus quirky reddit momento writing.
I truly felt hurt.

>>3836359
At least 80% of this list is either grossly misrepresented or things that date back to previous editions. Shitpost all you want with your /v/ culture war shit but stop trying to drag fucking tabletop into your fucking lies
>Muh racial ability scores
>Modern DnD's racial ability scores were terribly implemented sacred cows but I NEED them back in the game because I'd prefer to have something fit my politics than be remotely decent game design!!!!!!!
>All this gender neutral language is woke! It wasn't woke when the game was written to refer to the DM and all players as "she" decades ago!!
>I don't care that alignment is an archaic sacred cow whose implementation often doesn't make sense, I need my worldview validated before consistent or logical world building is added!
>Look! They erased all oppressive and evil cultures! But also I'm complaining that they made evil cultural for sapient races! It's both!!
>See how woke it is that you can play all these races? btw you can play fewer races than the previous editions, and Gygax himself let people play gonzo shit, but it only counts as woke now!
Fuck off back to /v/ you scumbag. 5e is terrible, but not because it was written by leftists.

>>3836600
His list was far closer to the truth than yours. You come across as disingenuous and dishonest (which you project onto others, naturally).

>>3836605
>list was far closer to the truth than yours
No, it wasn't.
>no u
lmao.

>>3836609
>no u
Whew lad.

Caves of Qum am i rite????
Eh.. eh? Anybody?
>t. desperately trying to bring back the funny we had going at the beginning

>>3836413
I'm genuinely not trying to stir up shit. I have mostly been out of tabletop gaming for at least 15 years, I have no skin in the game as far as the politics of the current stuff being published. Back in the day we just threw out and chsbfed anything that didn't appeal and it see any issue with it. So I genuinely don't see what's different now.

>>3836600
>tranny has a melty

>>3828002
The devs based it on shitskin garbage. The game itself isn't that great, very easy to break and exploit shit, even in roguelike terms.
It's boring, but reddignogs go wild for anything with a flashy-retro-ascii-modern-fusion aesthetic

>>3836407
>hey guys, I want to run D&D but with a few changes
>here are the first 3 books of house rules for each of you
>I'll bring you the rest tomorrow because my back hurts already

>>3836884
Maybe things changed but I can barely think of a campaign I played in where there weren't some kind of house rules or a tweak on the setting. The rule books are broad guides not a hard set. Is that unusual now?

>>3836702
>lie
>called out
>try to spin it as a tantrum
Cope. Seethe too, if you're so inclined.

>>3836468
You seem to find yourself constantly running away to find ever-more obscure, ever more insular, ever smaller corners of the internet to hide in... why?

>>3836605
Dude. D&D 5e is not some weird esoteric thing that no one can just go look at and read. It's one of the most talked about and analyzed things in entertainment of any media format.
>>3836600
Is correct in their assessment of the hypocrisy and lies. D&D 5e is garbage because of its game design. None of the "woke" changes are new. And no one complained about the changes when they originally happened twenty years ago.

>>3836929
>and no one complained about the changes when they originally happened twenty years ago
kek

>>3836600
>>3836929
Obvious samefag gaslighting. This is just pathetic.

>>3836998
>anyone who disagrees with me is gaslighting

Are you being serious?

>>3837014
Anyone who gaslights is gaslighting, yes.

Can you two jerkoffs just share your kiks or grams or cords of whatever you zoomies are using with eachother and go erp over there so we can get back to talking about caves of cum already? Jesus christ

>>3836594
I love and hate the world. Every time I scroll a screen and there's a wall one space away for 80% of the screen until it just fully walls off anyway and I have to weirdly backtrack to get around stupid gen like that for a couple screens its a huge turnoff

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>>3836998

>>3837016
How is it gaslighting? That's a genuine question

>>3837103
Insisting that we're just misremembering things, that there was no outrage and these recent changes ackshually happened 20 years ago

>>3837096
It's hilarious that in CY+9 anons still confidently post this as proof that they're not samefagging

>>3837108
You implying that because you were outraged means everyone everywhere was outraged is insular and short sighted. Peoplein this very thread have tried to imply that average tabletop roleplayers in the 90's were a bunch of jocks >>3834507
Now that sure sounds like an attempt at gaslighting by someone who was never there.

>>3837113
>my gaslighting is OK because I erroneously believed someone else was gaslighting
You quoted an anon who simply described himself in response to another anon actually making a generalization and insisting D&D players were always fags and trannies ackshually, when in reality he's just a fag and surrounded himself with like-minded fags.

>>3837110
You can believe anything you want. Sounds like you're the one samefagging and you're lying about it, pretending that you're someone else. There's literally no other reason you'd be so worried about it since absolutely no one else fucking cares enough to pay any attention to it.

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>>3837113
>Peoplein this very thread have tried to imply that average tabletop roleplayers in the 90's were a bunch of jocks
Ya, that part did get an irritated hmmmm from me as I was reading through the thread.

>>3837116
>Sounds like you're the one samefagging and you're lying about it, pretending that you're someone else.
We’re reaching levels of gaslighting that shouldn’t even be possible

You two going back and forth this long is just as incoherent and rambling as the npcs in the game. I commend you both for commitment to being so insufferable

>>3837115
>in reality he's just a fag and surrounded himself with like-minded fags
This desu.

D&D attracted all kinds of people from it's inception. It definitely, certainly, factually included a substantial share of sociable, well-adjusted people with entirely normie sensibilities. But some social rejects feel the need to imagine that all D&D groups were identical to their gang or degenerates.
>"Nooo impossible D&D would be popular if that was the case"
IT IS POPULAR NOW AS A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF THAT

The only gaslighting is the idea of D&D and roleplaying games in general formerly being some sort of a cultural safespace for mouthbreathing faggots, because apparently Steve Jackson required that you mail him photocopies of your chess club membership card, your deformed physiognomy and your micropenis before selling you a copy of GURPS Martial Arts.

>>3837132
And yet here you are, engaged enough to interact with it...

>>3837115
Yeah because he's an outlier, most D&D nerds weren't also big into hockey and football. They weren't all gay or trans, I'm a pretty vanilla straight dude in that sense but we were mostly weirdos of some sort. So it's not surprising that as things went on game design evolved in that direction as well. I also see nothing wrong with that.

>>3837146
>this revisionism again
It’s not that normies were prevented from playing DnD. It’s that normies weren’t interested in playing DnD, because it used to be the realm of being a hardcore nerd, and being a hardcore nerd wasn’t considered socially acceptable until maybe the last 15 years or so.

>>3837108
>these recent changes ackshually happened 20 years ago
Eberron, one of the most popular DnD settings that has intelligent, non-evil orcs, was created 21 years ago. The concept of entire groups and factions good aligned drow being canon is also over 20 years old. Go fuck yourself.

>>3837166
>more disingenuous bullshit
Yeah, as non-standard curiosities. Not the baseline that it is today.

>>3837125
What's wrong? You don't like people just declaring that you're gaslighting? Is that because you're gaslighting? That's why it upsets you to get caught doing it?

>>3837172
We've now achieved meta gaslighting. This thread has it all.

>>3837166
>Eberron, one of the most popular DnD settings
lol
>The concept of entire groups and factions good aligned drow being canon is also over 20 years old
There’s a massive difference between
>98% of drow are inherently evil sadistic slavers, 2% are fringe outcast elistrae cultists
and
>first of all the very concept of a race being inherently evil is very problematic. So is the concept of objective evil. Who’s to say what’s evil and what’s not? So is the concept of race. We here at Brand(tm) are moving towards more inclusive and equitable language, like species.
You ignored 90% of what he said (because most of it is obviously post 5th edition, and in many cases wasn’t retconned until the past few years) because you’re a dishonest shitbag arguing in bad faith. You types always stick out like a sore thumb.

>>3837146
Before the 2010s, sociable, well-adjusted people absolutely did not get involved in tabletop gaming.

The closest thing I could compare it to is like being a furry. Like being a furry in the early days of the internet. D&D was extremely not cool. The concept of "normie" wasn't yet coined, but basically what I'm saying is that, indeed, normies did not play D&D. Ever. Because if they did, they were no longer normies by definition, according to literally everyone but gamer dorks.

The normalization / popularization / mainstreaming of gaming began with video games around the turn of the century and then only gradually spread to include tabletop games afterwards due to a concerted marketing effort by Hasbro including now-famous series of video game RPGs branded as and based upon D&D. The actual mainstream acceptance of D&D is arguably still an ongoing process yet to be completed as GenX and Millennial nerds still bear the scars / traumas of the severe and complete ostracization and abuse they suffered in the '80s and '90s. Everyone older than Zoomers is very very aware of this. It's not up for debate. You can't just bullshit about it in an attempt to revise history. There's people still alive who personally remember it.

>>3837173
You got uno reversed in an effort to demonstrate your bullshit to you and now everyone here sees what just happened except of course for you. Which was the point all along: that not only are you a hypocritical idiot, but that you very basically do understand what you're even doing as you attempt to gaslight (misusing the term in the process).
You are the perfect target for trolling because you absolutely will never EVER understand how completely you were destroyed.

>>3837168
It's even more disingenuous to pretend that's not how they were used by 99% of actual players at the table.

But putting that aside, where are you seeing that drow and orcs are good at the baseline? I'm not seeing that in the new PHB or the new Monster Manual. Or Monsters of the Universe. Which nu-DnD book exactly tells us this? Because it certainly wasn't the case in the 2014 books, so of the like 5 books released in the past year of the edition reboot you should be able to tell me which ones corroborate your claims. The ONLY thing even remotely like that I can find is that the Orc entry in the Player's Handbook doesn't explicitly mention good or bad, but that is also explicitly written to be rather setting agnostic, it only mentions that Gruumsh is their primary deity and they obey him, but some orcs in some settings ignore him and go their own way. Gruumsh is still canonically Chaotic Evil. Meaning most orcs are at the very least still implicitly evil.

>>3837176
It's already been said in this thread that alignment is fucking stupid, and trying to apply inherent evil to a sapient race is fucking stupid. Cry and shit about Gygax and his orc babies all you want but that's incredibly uncontroversial in most /tg/ spaces. But I guess it's WOKE to acknowledge dogshit world building, you need to keep the old and bad ideas to be BASED.
>So is the concept of race.
But the concept has stayed the same? They only changed the name.
>Who’s to say what’s evil and what’s not
But evil and alignment (as stupid as it is) still exist in the game? So who are you quoting here? You are quoting someone right, surely you wouldn't call me disingenuous then lie in the same breath?

>>3837180
I don’t think anonymous image board posting is for you.

>>3837161
This guy gets it. It's not that D&D etc specifically went after gay or variously queer people, it's that most people who were really into it were strange in one way or another so someone being gay or gender-bendy as we would have said then rather than trans was no big deal. Which isn't to say there weren't gay guys on the football team, they just wouldn't admit it untill they were actually sucking another dude off and even then probably not.

tl:dr if you feel uncomfortable in the current tabletop gaming culture, that's not a bug, it's a feature.

>>3837180
>I was just pretending to gaslight

>>3837189
As an aside, you have to be a bit more explicit than that because the kids aren't quite developed enough to take that extra step to understand your point about the concept of "based". Here, let me help:

He's pointing out how stupid the notion of "based" is because it's a term only ever invoked to express tacit approval / agreement with the "based" statement. Or, in other words, it isn't based at all... it's literally just groupthink. The term "based" was coined as an intentional effort to manipulate the conversation about regressive politics. By relabeling outdated talking points as "based", they could be made to seem fresh and new to children who had not been alive when those ideas were originally in circulation, nor when they were debunked and discarded by society. You are not a brave, bold iconoclast for believing unregulated markets lead to safe products. That's just fucking stupid childish nonsense very thoroughly disproven. It isn't even a topic in economics / political science anymore for the same reason that astrology isn't a topic in astronomy. Alchemy isn't a thing, it just isn't discussed when you take classes in chemistry.

Alchemists and astrologers are not "based". They're grifters and charlatans. Opinions are not "based" just because you feel like one is strongly stated or boldly contrarian. If you just go along with whatever some opinionated asshole says, you have no respect for yourself.

And being a contrarian is not good thing.

>>3837190
It's definitely not for you.
>>3837196
I was not lying when I predicted you would never understand what just happened. You think someone's trying to convince you of something. So you've completed missed the point and you will never get it, either.

>>3837195
Reminder that, unfortunately, the satire of Warhammer whooshes right over the heads of most fascists. So sometimes when it happens that they begin to feel uncomfortable, they are confused about why and what to do about it, and they get frustrated and angry (of course) rather than leaving when they're told to fuck off.
D&D and other RPGs are not political, really, so the cognitive dissonance within the fascists in those spaces is directly confronted by the act of playing the game itself: you have to interact with the players and develop the story together. Whereas in wargames like W40k, the players mostly are just executing mechanics, their confrontation with the philosophical commentary is more like a moment experienced outside of the actual space where the game is played. It's an experience that happens in your bedroom while reading the books or painting your minis.
By contrast, the dissonance developed from D&D is something that's brought out in an immediate, present sense because the player across the table from you is sharing their perspective as a victim of abuse and persecution... or attempting to abuse / persecute YOU! Impossible to escape from acknowledging that in the moment it's happening.

>>3837214
>strawman
>bad faith framing
>false dichotomy
>appeal to motive
They're not sending their best, folks.

>>3837208
>debunked
Stopped reading here.

>>3837208
Cringe and unbased post

>>3837146
>>"Nooo impossible D&D would be popular if that was the case"
Here's the kicker: D&D was INSANELY popular during the 70s and the 80s! It was found at the root of the Satanic Panic which caused it to flourish even more! Gary Gygax actually spent a shitload of time living in California getting chauffeured in limousines with playgirls because of how much money the game was making. It even had its own cartoon. It didn't stop making money until all the infighting that wound up killing TSR.

>>3837559
>It was found at the root of the Satanic Panic
Reminder that there really were tunnels underneath McMartin preschool and the FBI and the media lied to the public to conceal their existence. This only came out accidentally years later during a FOIA release on The Finders, another CIA-ran satanic child sex trafficking cult. Absolute midwits like this specimen here still think it was about DnD, how many years after Jeffrey Epsteins island?

We're reaching
>gays were beaten with hammers in the streets and cops ruled it as a suicide
levels of revision cope in this thread.

>>3837232
>>3837241
>>3837251
When you samefag that hard in the process of misusing formal debate terminology, you kind of just announce to everyone that not only did you lose the imaginary high school debate, but that the target of your ire really got a good fucking read on you.

>>3837178
>Before the 2010s, sociable, well-adjusted people absolutely did not get involved in tabletop gaming.
>D&D was extremely not cool.
That is a lie.

>>3837161
>it used to be the realm of being a hardcore nerd
Not anymore than, say, chess. Actually quite less so than chess.

>>3837645
>projecting

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>>3837564
>Reminder that there really were tunnels underneath McMartin preschool
1. A quick google shows that those were heavily debunked.
2. Even if we grant that, literally has nothing to do with what happened to and around D&D. You posted off topic garbage to try and deflect the popularity. Probably because you know how damaging it is to these retarded "D&D IS FOR OUTCASTS!" conspiracy being slathered all over here.

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>>3837731
>A quick google shows that those were heavily debunked.
You are dumb as fuck. The term "Satanic panic" and deflecting to blame DnD was literally a cover-up of actual Satanic sexual abuse of children in real life. It's a programmed response to a term term to shut your brain off, to make midwits go "hmm yes they told me that was debunked"
https://vault.fbi.gov/the-finders/The%20Finders%20Part%2001
Pages 47 and 48, hosted on the FBI's own website.

>>3837652
>projecting

>>3837741
I didn't read because you're still posting about debunked tunnels that are irrelevant to the conversation of D&D's popularity, which was massive. Go fight windmills somewhere else.

>>3831768
Jokes aside, yeah Roguelike comes from a game literally named Rogue.

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>>3838048
>IT'S DEBOONKED

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>>3837214
Pretty much, yeah. Though I have far less experience with tabletop war games (pretty much just a now forgotten one we used to recreate Legend of Galactic Heroes) I dod tons of D&D and other role-playing games. And not that there weren't straight people into sports, I am pretty vanilla white straight dude who still plays shit tons of tennis. It's that I also don't give a shit if the other people in the group are gay, trans, furry or whatever.

>>3838279
>I'm just so like tolerant and stuff
>can't we all just be nice or whatever
You're a faggot. We know.

>>3831476
Yeah right, because acting all wholesome and attracting a bunch of hypersensitive assholes with rainbow furry pfps obsessed with shipping, palestine and showing everyone how gay they are is so much better. Conservatives at least are used to hiding their power level as long as you don't openly agree with them.

>>3838288
If you want to get all huffy and upset that someone who isn't you likes to jerk it to burly dog dudes to the point you can't play in the same group that's your deal. And your discomfort is a source of comedy.

>>3838303
Sure it is, faggot.

>>3838303
The fact that they like that shit isn't the real issue. It's just that they tend to be really obnoxious while also usually being really self righteous, be it about that or anything else. People don't hate sonicfox JUST because he's furry fagnog, they hate him because he's also an entitled, insufferable asshole who brings up the fact that he's a furry fagnog all the time and uses it as an excuse to do whatever the fuck he wants.

>>3838312
>The fact that they like that shit isn't the real issue.
The real issue is our subverted society tolerating people openly liking that stuff

>>3838313
I guess it would be better if everyone just hid their power level and kept that kind of shit on the internet instead of real life? I'd still rather not act holier than them, as that would be pretty hypocritical.

>>3838313
The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.

>>3838316
>I'd still rather not act holier than them, as that would be pretty hypocritical.
Only if you aren't, you know, actually holier than them. It's a pretty low bar to be holier than sodomites.

>>3838329
I can't force them to change their preferences, I just want them to stop acting like complete retards

>>3838307
>duuur ur a faggot!
Say it a million times, I don't give a shit. That's not an insult to me.

>>3838312
People of all stripes can be insufferable, see >>3838307 If someone is an annoying prick then they're an annoying prick regardless of sexuality. I know some extremely annoying gay people and some extremely annoying straight people.

>>3838313
Understand that to them, you being uncomfortable and unhappy that they are open about who they are is a good thing. No one is interested in coddling your delicate sensibilities.

>>3838363
>you being uncomfortable and unhappy that they are open about who they are is a good thing.
No it isn't. They can't stand talk back and degrade into a nervous mess, desperately trying to shut you up. They want you to be silent and speak nothing of their degeneracy, that is how they can infiltrate their drag queen story hours and chemical castration of children into reality.

>>3838363
Imagine virtue signaling on 4chan

He's doing this same shit in like three different threads. Just stop giving him attention.

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>>3838363
>That's not an insult to me.
Don't care. Didn't ask. Faggot.

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>>3838368
Yeah because they don't give a shit if you are uncomfortable. When your stance is that they should hide their true nature because you don't like having to acknowledge it why should they care about your opinion in any way? Of course they're going to be extra annoying if they see it pisses you off. To them you're just a bigoted dipshit asking to be mocked.

>>3838376
Virtue signaling is just angry bigots talk when they see someone not being bigotted.

>>3838379
Say it a few more times. It'll make you feel better, I promise :)

>>3838390
>sad faggot sees the cultural zeitgeist shifting toward 4chan and away from reddit
>goes on a mission to change hearts and minds on a backwater board
good luck with that

>>3838545
It's all a problem to varying degrees, retard. Peter Thiel is also a faggot and Trump's cabinet is filled with faggots. Assuming right wingers are pro Trump is dumb af, especially on this website. I wrote in Pat Buchanan btw.

>>3838545
>You people are so fucking stupid, and I can't wait for you to get the wall.
lol, lmao
>t. former lefty

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>>3838398
Dude I'm happy with everything that is happening. You are the one upset about gaming culture, I'm just trying to make ypu understand why you feel so unwelcome. If you do understand or not, I really don't care I just reply to see what dumb butthurt comment you'll make and call me a faggot because I guess to you that's supposed to be some sick burn.

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>>3833794
>you were birthed of a failed civilization

Ahhh, yes, who can compete with THIS

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>>3831476
>You have to make it scary/inhospitable for conservatives because most of them shit up communities with their misanthropic antisocial behavior
Lol, lmao even. Projection perfection.

>>3838545
>You are so blinded by capitalism, fascism, and hatred...
No, YOU'RE blinded by capitalism, fascism, and hatred, as if the whole fucking world today is nothing but these three words. You act as if everything done to undermine them is the greatest thing in the world never bothering to check what the fuck you're promoting. And what you promote is, who would've guessed, is exactly these three words with YOUR brand plastered all over - woke capitalism, authoritarian communism and Popper's "intolerance towards the intolerant". I don't need to look at people doing fucked up things and think whether they're right or left wing first before saying "that's fucked up", you DO, lest you be eaten alive by your side.

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>>3838916
Everything changes all tne time, that's the whole point. It's all a big pendulum and it's all good. Mechanically tabletop games are more engaging and fun than they used to be. If games get released targeting certain demographics and fail, that's all good.

>>3840764
>deleted posts
>replies 3 days later
got banned huh?

>>3828062
lmao qud is just a generic adomlike with faggy writing

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>>3840780
Not banned, just lazy. Why that post suddenly got deleted as soon as I replied is a little funny, but who knows or cares. I just assume 90% of everything posted here after the hack is just mosad chat bot word salad.

>>3840781
>generic
That's not what that word means. You can not like it or its writing but that doesn't make it generic.

>>3841195
This is why professional game developers ignore feedback from the general population. It's like hearing middle schoolers talk about quantum physics. Words don't mean anything, the kids don't fucking know anything. You're not gonna get any kind of insight from the experience.

The trash on this board babbling about "slop" and "generic" and what the fuck ever... the most fucking excruciating nonsense I've seen in any forum outside /pol/.

>>3837182
>>3837189
Interesting how the people most vocal about calling others liars went completely silent when asked to back their claims even a little bit/when faced with evidence that makes them look liars.

>>3841217
>worlds most subtle samefag
You were pulling this same gimmick in two or three different threads, and eventually the other anon(s) grew tired of feeding you (yous), because you’re clearly dishonest and arguing in bath faith. We’ve all seen it a thousand times from leftoids.
>ignore 90% of someone’s broader arguments
>fixate on one or two of what you perceive as the weakest and easiest-to-attack details and nitpick those
>fail to present any evidence in support of your claims, yet later appeal to this non-existent evidence
>end up going around in circles until you don’t even remember what the original argument was about
It’s pilpul and it’s extremely boring and not worth the mental energy to continue.
>inb4
I don’t care.

>>3841221
Forgot to mention
>misrepresent what others are saying, preferring to attack men of straw
>argue disingenuously, while simultaneously projecting one’s dishonesty onto everyone else, even when arguing with those who are attempting in good faith to debate a difference of opinion
It’s all so tiresome.

>>3841221
>>3841225
>Everyone who doesn't agree with me is the same person
Mother of cope. This is the only thread I'm active in on this board, the only other one I've bothered talking in for the past 2 weeks is the thread on Riviera: The Promised Land which isn't even up anymore. I'm sorry that you can't handle more than one person disagreeing with you but stop being such a fucking baby about it.

My source is the fucking books by the way. The ones i referneced then you ignored my referencing of while saying I ignore arguments, you disingenuous piece of shit. If you people are going to kick and shit about the books saying things don't throw a tantrum when you're asked where they say them. Better yet, don't lie about one of the most easily pirated RPGs in existence so no one fact checks you.

>>3841217
Maybe we're just bored and don't actually care if the current rules get your panties in a twist. Why bother arguing with someone who you don't care what their opinion is?

>>3834405
>always had a lot of gay and variously queer people playing
Pure projection. Everyone I knew was pretty normal.
I've see similar thing happening with anime, where complete fucking degenerates claim that they were "the original adopters".

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>>3828062
>Guys we put gay shit in rogue
Come back when you are actually pushing a boundary. Give me a crusade game.

>>3841569
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1158310/Crusader_Kings_III/

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>>3841570
It's less of a game about crusades, and more a medieval grand strategy game. I'm talking a game about a man going on a crusade. The inverse of Qud.

>>3836359
I've never seen a more thorough destruction of another poster on this board. Masterful and unfortunately it's all true.

>>3841572
>It's less of a game about crusades, and more a medieval grand strategy game.
It explicitly has crusades.

>I'm talking a game about a man going on a crusade. The inverse of Qud.
I don't get what you mean. Please elaborate.

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>>3838048
>Guys it's totally normal for a daycare to have a secret tunnel
>Nobody confesses to doing satanic rituals in the secret tunnel so it's deboonked
>The victims testimony was coerced, it's totally normal for children to have hard drugs in their system after going to a normal daycare with a normal secret tunnel.

>>3841573
>coming back weeks later so you can (You) your own post and jerk yourself off

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>>3841586
>everyone who disagrees with me is a samefag

>>3841563
Dude I was more into anime than I was into D&D and I guarantee the majority of people into it in the 80's into the 90's trading fansubs are a bunch of turbo weirdos. If you played tabletop rpgs and didn't run into gays and other outcasts I know for certain it was either a tiny insular group or a flash in the pan.

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>>3841573
Again, if you read, I was mostly talking about mechanics. The round to round combat, the options you have as various classes are much more interesting in the newer editions. The cultural stuff like orcs not being inherently evil is just the current flavour text that you can change any way you want in a campaign you run. To me that's all well and good, if I were to run a game again I might keep some and ignore others. It is wonderful though that your head is so far up your bigoted ass that it actually upsets you.

>>3841835
>the options you have as various classes are much more interesting in the newer editions
They’ve never been more dumbed down or simpler. By default, everyone gets the same “standard array” of stats, racial stat modifiers are now gone because they hurt peoples feelings, and feats are an optional rule by DM choice only. Most of the feats are so shit that usually everyone skips them in favor of stat increases to get their damage stat to 20, with rare exceptions. The difference in classes in terms of allowed armors and weapons is minimal and boring and you see shit like arcane casters take dips to use medium armor and shields. Paladins are reduced to le smite everything DPS class with no God.

>>3841848
>and feats are an optional rule by DM choice only.
Feats are optional in name only. Literally everyone who plays 5e understands you should be running it with feats, it's been the community consensus for like a decade now
>everyone gets the same “standard array”
Point buy is as baseline as standard array, in theory. In practice the vast majority of 5e players roll for stats (which is still in the core rules, just presented as more optional than the other 2). Standard array has to be by far the least popular stat generation method.
>Most of the feats are so shit
Objectively correct
>usually everyone skips them in favor of stat increases to get their damage stat to 20, with rare exceptions
This one is incorrect though. The vast majority feats are dogwater, but the strong ones are so good you're gimping yourself by not taking them. The weakest weapons and martial classes were considered weakest by virtue of the fact they couldn't abuse the strong martial feats.
> difference in classes in terms of allowed armors and weapons is minimal and boring and you see shit like arcane casters take dips to use medium armor and shields.
This is true. Ironically martials and half casters have more weapon and armour restrictions because lots of them have features that outright turn off with the wrong weapon or armour, but casters almost never have those restrictions.
> Paladins are reduced to le smite everything DPS class
This is the most incorrect thing you've said. Anyone who treats 5e paladins like that has a poor understanding of the game's mechanics and tactics. Paladins should only ever smite when they crit, otherwise they should be casting support and utility spells with their slots. A HUGE part of paladin's value is its level 6 aura, which allows you to become an in valuable asset to the party just by standing still. The subclass auras and channel divinities are also quite good.
>with no God
That's the point of the class. Paladins do Oaths, Clerics do gods.

>>3841827
The guys who played D&D in the 80s and 90s were geeks not gays. You're confusing D&D with White Wolf faggotry.

>>3841848
>>3841853
>racial stat modifiers are now gone because they hurt peoples feelings
Also this was done for stupid reasons, but 5e had some of the worst implementation of racial stats I've ever seen in a fantasy TTRPG so I'm actually 100% for the end result. They got the right answer with the wrong formula.

>>3841835
Calling newer editions “more interesting” mechanically is just your (wrong) opinion. 3.5 had more tactical depth, 4e had the most structured combat of all, and even AD&D had its own gritty resource management appeal. 5e streamlined all that with bounded accuracy and advantage/disadvantage, which made it easier to run but undeniably less granular. If “more interesting” just means “simpler,” then that is not a universal strength, it is a trade-off.
Saying the lore changes are “just flavour you can ignore” also misses the point. Official lore sets the baseline for new players, shared modules, and the overall culture of the game. Most people do not rewrite orcs, drow, and planar history from scratch, they use what is printed. Brushing it off as optional does not erase the fact that defaults matter and they shape how the game is played. Throwing in “bigot” at the end is not an argument, it is just name-calling to avoid defending those changes.

>>3841861
>>3841848
This thread has turned into a masterclass of owning libtards lol

>>3836359
>>3841861
I can't find where any of this orc and drow stuff is coming from. There are undeniably more good orcs being shown, but their default lore is still "Most Orcs follow Gruumsh" now with the caveat "But sometimes they don't". unless I'm missing other changes Gruumsh is still super evil. Same with the Drow, I can't find anything about them now being majority good. Did I miss a release or is this from leaks of the upcoming books?

Also I thought only NPC races were actually inherently evil? Like dragons and devils? The other evil races have been playable as good guys for a while, right? Like the point is orcs have a god putting evil thoughts in their heads and have evil cultures but still ultimately choose to obey that rather than being forced. Idk alignment makes no sense to me if there's no choice involved.

>>3828002
Letting troons on the dev team.

>>3841880
The change came with Monsters of the Multiverse and the OneD&D playtests. In the 2014 PHB and MM, Orcs were still “usually evil” Gruumsh fanatics and Drow were “cruel, depraved, usually Neutral Evil.” In newer books the alignment lines are gone, and the writeups frame them as cultures with evil gods rather than inherently evil species.
You could always play a good orc or drow before, but the baseline assumption used to be that the race as a whole was evil. Now the baseline assumption is that it’s just their societies or religions that lean evil, and individuals are neutral. That is the difference.

>>3836359
I don't really have a problem with changing race to species. It's just a more accurate term, point blank.
Fuck combat wheelchairs, but I have to ask why you have a problem with more gender neutral language? They're making attempts to broaden their market share by appealing to women. Do you have a problem with being around women, anon? Is there a reason you don't want to socialize with women? What would be so terrible about meeting women who share your dorky gaming hobbies?

>>3841900
>Is there a reason you don't want to socialize with women?
Yeah, I'm married to one. Why the fuck would you want to socialize with women anyway? Especially in a masculine hobby. That's like asking me if I want my wife to come fishing with me.

>>3841898
Ah I see. I'm pretty sure the alignment lines are because 5e is moving away from alignment as a whole (I think the other races lost them too). Thanks for actually explaining

>>3841900
>I don't really have a problem with changing race to species. It's just a more accurate term, point blank.
It’s very amusing that they’re so “anti-racist” that they’ve actually wrapped around to the racist position, that race is a biological construct and that humans should be considered as multiple distinct sub-species, when you compare the fixation indices.

>>3841909
It's been decades since I bothered with anything WotC-branded. They have multiple human races now labeled as species? Or is the term reserved for distinguishing elves and orcs and gnomes and dwarves etc. from humans?

>>3841903
Games are a masculine hobby? Why wouldn't your wife want to go fishing? How did you meet your wife? Why wouldn't you want to socialize with your wife? How did you get to know her well enough to decide to marry her? Do you... do you actually like being around your wife, anon? Or is she just a beard?
Think carefully about your answers, anon, because no one actually believes that you're married.

>>3841959
The latter. They stopped calling them races and started calling them species.

>>3841963
How does that wrap around to the racist position

>>3841970
>there are no longer “races”, but species
There is greater genetic distance between the several races than the genetic distance between several species of animals with multiple recognized sub species, and mainstream insistence on “race isn’t real and there is only one race, the human race” is based on ideological and political considerations, and not objective biological criteria. There’s an argument to be made that there are actually multiple sub species which are inaccurately lumped together into Homo sapiens sapiens.

>>3841972
What's the objective biological definition of and criteria for race? Anyway I still don't get it, it's not particularly absurd to say the humanoid dragons are a different species to cat people or elves. If the setting were Sci Fi but the races were identical to how they are now no one would blink at the word species.

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>>3842037
>What's the objective biological definition of and criteria for race?
There isn't one single definition (the usual 'gotcha') but we can see clearly that different racial groups cluster together due to shared genetics that separate them from other racial groups, although there can be overlaps and there's not always necessarily a strict boundary between them.
Point being that genetic differences can be quantified, and for example there is more genetic distance between wolves and coyotes (which everyone agrees are separate species) between Europeans and Australian Aborigines (which biological orthodoxy tells us are both the same species) and therefore the line drawn between different species is somewhat arbitrary and politicized.
> Anyway I still don't get it, it's not particularly absurd to say the humanoid dragons are a different species to cat people or elves. If the setting were Sci Fi but the races were identical to how they are now no one would blink at the word species.
It's not absurd, it's reasonable. It's just funny due to the motives for the change being firmly rooted in "anti-racism". People called elves and dwarves and humans and shit "races" for decades and no one gave a shit, it's purely from projecting modern politics onto things.

>>3842051
This should have read
>there is more genetic distance between Europeans and Australian Aborigines than there is between wolves and coyotes
Forgive me, I'm sleepy and on pain meds from surgery

>>3842051
NTA, I have a PhD and work with population genetics for a living, although with animals. I can even link my ORCID and ResearchGate here, if you really want them.

>genetic differences can be quantified
Correct. People and groups of people are markedly genetically different. Though this quantification can be extremely difficult, and there's a hundred different approaches to it, giving different answers. Like, there's no one consistent approach to measuring genetic distances, more like a few dozen.

> there is more
How much more? In quantitative units, since you're going all quantitative here. And even then - many might disagree. Species as a concept are in a bit of a soft crisis right now with how arbitrary the concept is, lots of "Canis complex" shit around. Kinda the same issue that eventually killed race as a usable category. And that one was hardly on ideology. Like, I can easily tell you that a lot of people in academia are very racist. Not even saying it as a bad thing, just natural, in that academia is highly insular and extremely conservative as an institution and a culture, so fashionable ideas from a hundred years ago being prevalent there now is pretty much normal. Though it does unfortunately mean that major parts of it will be all homotroon in like, 2120s. But in any case, there are many racist scientists who would loath bending to ideological pressure - but it also happens to be that most racist geneticists blame culture, while most racist sociologists blame genes. And race as a concept is abandoned even in academia of countries with 0% woke dominance.

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>>3842051
>we can see clearly that different racial groups cluster together
The scientific problem with "racial groups" is that, as you agreed with the other anon, there's no consistent concept of "race". Raciology had centuries to come up with one and it never did. The very PCA you posted validates existence of only one pronounced race - negroid, that is, while neither "Europeoids" nor "Mongoloids" form anything approaching a coherent exclusive cluster. And that's with those insanely uneven components (that's the percentage values next to the PC#). And that's before we even consider the issue that it's a PCA plot. And you don't understand PCA and why it's not really a credible analytical method. I can take an open human dataset, fire up RStudio and very easily get you a plot that clusters blacks squarely with Irish, decisively proving once and for all that Irish are the niggers of Europe. See picrel. It's just the way PCA or any other dimensionality reduction works, actual studies find clustering using other methods (usually Bayesian clustering for a series of priors with MCMC), and then use one of the more similar PCAs on the same dataset as a visual aid, because they are much pretties and easier to read than Bayesian plots (as evident from online haplofuhreres really loving PCA plots). And then, clustering is one of the weakest evidences for, basically anything, from phenotypical traits to ancestry. And we didn't even being touching the sampling issues.

>>3842051
Overall, dividing mankind into different species is not even wrong, not even right, since we can draw arbitrary species demarcations anywhere, there's literally nothing stopping us from declaring you a different species from your mother, if I had genomes I could even assemble a bunch of SNPs and say "that's a greater genetic distance than between chili and habanero!", and find a particular set of markers and distancing methods in which it is evn technically true. It's understandable and even sorta based to be prejudiced against people based on their genetic traits, but there are literally no genetic traits, or even genetic associations, which map neatly on the traditional races. Not even skin color. Even most ethnic groups have shit genetic clustering due to being predominantly language-based and admixed af. Still, being prejudiced against Bantu, or Han, or Eskimo, makes a lot more sense scientifically than being prejudiced against nebulous "mongoloids".

Regarding D&D, replacing race with species in handbooks is 100% an ideological sensitivity thing, since regardless of inaccuracy "race" fits as al old, obsolete term that conveys Medieval aesthetics. But also, D&D was rather woke on lots of things from inception, and nobody can tell you what terms to use at your table, so I'd say that's one autismo ahh melty.

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>>3834488
I see you know nothing of modern D&D. You are one of the lucky ones.

>>3834402
>>3842110
>>3834488
It's a (hyped among twitterfags) homebrew, not an official supplement.

>>3841960
I got my wife by being a man, not an effeminate simp. And yes, gaming is a masculine hobby much like fishing and anything having to do with the outdoors. Almost no woman is genuinely interested in these things; they just do it for male attention.

>>3841960
>Games are a masculine hobby?
D&D was borne from wargaming and even the watered down gay version we have today is still - at its core - about dice rolls, stat blocks and slaying dragons. That is absolutely male coded.

>>3836125
>he thinks the American political parties are real
>he's all in on identity politics
I bet you think voting is important, too, lmao.

>>3831476
>You have to make it scary/inhospitable for conservatives because most of them shit up communities with their misanthropic antisocial behavior.
Exactly this. It's the same reason South Park decided to go all-in on bashing Trump. Regardless of their personal political ideology, Trey and Matt don't want to be seen as "allies" to the MAGA cult, so they're ripping that band-aid off before things go any further.

>>3842297
>samefagging 2 weeks later
lmao

>>3842301
Quite stupid to claim samefagging on anonymous forum. But because of how much this particular deeply buried post is being brought up, I'm starting to believe you.

>>3842362
>stupid to claim samefagging on the only kind of forum where it can be easily done
what

>>3842383
Because sockpuppeting doesn't exist and can't be easily done, yeh.

>>3842271
I'm interested to hear what you believe isn't male coded. Name something. Anything.
You're gonna have a lot of fun when you realize history goes all the way back. Wherever you're snipping it off at, there's times before then when women did that thing more than men.
For example, wargames with dice and numbers descend from party games where people gathered around and played games to socialize. And that was predominantly a thing women did. They were called "parlor games".
But anyway, I wanna know what you believe isn't male coded. Go on. Let's hear it.

>>3842411
>I wanna know what you believe isn't male coded.
Your posts.

>>3842390
>it's the anon is a retarded pedant episode again

>>3842481
What? Oh, you mean the >>3842383 one. Wait...

>>3842271
>D&D was borne from wargaming and even the watered down gay version we have today is still - at its core - about dice rolls, stat blocks and slaying dragons.
One word: roleplay. Aka informal improv theater.

>>3842522
One word: faggot. aka (You)

>>3842612
gottem

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>>3842103
>>3842104
>>3842105
Honestly it sounds like you just regurgitated a bunch of things professors told you in order to gaslight you into saying stupid shit like
>there's no consistent concept of "race"
Which just sounds more like a definitional problem when I think most people would just come to accept "Race is an offbranch of a species that can still reproduce with other races in that species" without any real question or thought. And then stupid shit like
>But also, D&D was rather woke on lots of things from inception
When pic related exists. I'm sure you have a thousand worded essay ready to go about how if you play Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon and tease the definition of words hard enough that you can try and make this slipper fit on an elephant, but D&D was definitely not woke nor played in a woke manner anywhere near its inception.

>>3843758
>no differences for INT and WIS between the sexes
Gygax was a progressive, proof

>>3837214
warhammer is a corporate product that pretends to be satire while ripping off the work of moorcock and just about every sci-fi writer under the sun.

>>3843760
While that made me chuckle, that did actually make me wonder how best you could model that in stat generation. Maybe 3d6 for females, but 1d20 for males?

>>3843758
>your definitions are regurgitated and work, my definitions are actually so true they should be the standard
I'm not any of those anons but you sound like you've put your head up your ass just as well as any professor could.

>>3843779
For int that's good, but for wis females should be 1d10.

>>3843862
WIS is just a disabled stat for women. No bonuses but also immune to it.

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>>3842104
>Guys I broke down racial groups to ultra specific categories like "Georgia Mesolithic"
>I have arrived at the remarkable conclusion that people in Denmark during the bronze age are genetically similar to people in Denmark during the Neolithic era.

Thank you for that massive insight. I now say fuck having borders n shit. Why do you think you don't see two black parents in Sub Saharan Africa popping out a white kid with blonde hair, blue eyes, 140 IQ, and a desire to climb a mountain? I mean there is just no genetic component to race, but I just plum haven't seen people in one race having children that display these traits exhibited in other races.

It's the darndest thing. It must be some statistically anomaly that across everything I look at, even a dog keeps having dogs, and not a turtle. There must be some explanation for this repeated anomaly hm...

>>3843779
>While that made me chuckle, that did actually make me wonder how best you could model that in stat generation. Maybe 3d6 for females, but 1d20 for males?
For accuracy, would have a distribution that has a very slightly lower mean, but would have a significantly smaller standard deviation, to produce a bell curve that's more tightly clustered about the mean, such that men would be vastly overrepresented in high INT scores (and low INT as well)
Off the top of my head, I'm struggling to think of how to do that with simple tabletop dice math. Would need to use the sum of a larger number of smaller dice (higher number of dice = more normal), however I can't immediately think of a combination of standard dice that would also produce the same minimum, maximum, and approximate mean.

>>3843862
>>3843867
Nah, I've seen wise women. They're women whose father actually gave a shit about holding them accountable and to standards.

>>3843898
5d4. From what I remember most women tend to sit around 120 IQ while men are all over the place. If you want them to represent extremes, you could always do 2d20 + 1d2, where if the d2 is even, you take the higher d20, and if odd you take the lower one.

>>3843902
>sit around 120 IQ
This is way too high, the normal ba dum psh would be a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15. 120 would be top 10%.

>>3843905
You know what, you're right. I confused the graphs in my head with grade averages. My bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-13LUfagQhY

>>3843961
You don't need to watch a 16 minute video to answer this question by the way.
>is it like rogue?
It's a roguelike.
>does it deviate from the rogue formula?
Then it's a game with roguelike elements.

If it's not a turn based, tile based RPG with random maps and enemies then it's not a roguelike. Permadeath is technically a requirement but I mostly just hate it when people call action games with an item randomizer "roguelikes", especially when they almost always have meta progression which a roguelike should never have aside from maybe unlocking a new class or species to roll.

>>3843758
>Race is an offbranch of a species
If "Europoid", "Mongoloid" and "Negroid" are offbranches, then what is the "main stem" of humanity? An additional problem is that an "offbranch" (the term we typically use is "clade" or "monophyletic group") needs to be that - a distinct "offbranch", a divergence. None of the human races are that. They are all genetic kitchen sinks, umbrella'd under a handful of morphological traits, none of which are even applied consistently. Humans are fucking mutts. Half the people who are called "nigger" in the US by now have in fact less African admixture than Madeirans do.

>>3843879
Anon are you alrgiht?

>>3843902
>most women
>around 120
The author of this post has <90 IQ.

>>3844645
>If "Europoid", "Mongoloid" and "Negroid" are offbranches, then what is the "main stem" of humanity?
Can you elaborate on this a little bit more? I'm actually curious, cause the way you're describing it still sounds like a definitional problem to me. Surely the fact that we can identify Europoid, Mongoloids, and Negroids in general implies that there is a minimum set of criteria to consider someone belonging to one of these, no? Or are you implying the inverse, that these distinctions actually don't exist? If so, why did we think they did and then what happened to make us stop considering that? And on the question of main stem of humanity, if you're implying this doesn't exist and that in actuality all of these difference humanoids sprout up roughly around the same time, is it just sheer coincidence they can reproduce? CAN they reproduce? And if these unrelated species can reproduce, what about other examples of species exhibiting similar features but unable to reproduce, like a Pig and a Peccary?

>>3842118
Combat wheelchair may be but >>3842110 this faggot shit is 100% official D&D faggotry and if you have been playing D&D any time since they released 3.0 then you fucking love the cock you massive flaming boy molesting fruit.