No.

>>3835522
RTwP is filth

Obviously the original.

>Bioware games
Truly shit and introduced toxic design trends that have plagued RPGs since.
>BG3
Good, very interactive games, emphasizes tactics in combat and true roleplaying. Almost a return to pre-Bioslop design.

>>3835531
Ironic considering the worst thing Bioware cursed the genre with was romances, which were a cornerstone of BG3

3
hate rtwp
love tb
simple as

>>3835531
saaaaar

>>3835522
Baldur's Gate III. I played I and II the summer before Baldur's Gate III, and I was honestly unimpressed. I honestly hated I and I was glad when it ended, and II while better, still wasn't that fun to me. I'm not baiting when I say that I honestly preferred Dragon Age Origins, Pathfinder Kingmaker, and Pathfinder WoTR.
So to answer your question, I prefer III to I and II

BG1 > BG2 > DOS2 > TOB > DOS1 > Divine Divinity > BG3

>>3835522
They are not similar. There is no comparison possible between them. BG3 only has the brand name / logo. It's a completely and profoundly different experience.
Also ToB was an expansion of BG2, so there was no "trilogy", there was just BG1 and its expansions, and BG2 and its expansions.

>>3835531
What were the toxic design trends, specifically? What specific things did you not like that Bioware introduced to RPGs which didn't exist in RPGs before?

>>3835575
What didn't you like about II? Keep in mind that it was made with a shoestring budget on an insanely primitive, unsophisticated engine for ridiculously limited hardware. NEETs tinkering with RPGMaker in their bedrooms today have more resources available to make their games. I'm not exaggerating.
And it was all done DECADES before the Owlcat games. Are the Owlcat games vastly larger and more fully-fleshed? Yes. They also have astronomically more technology and resources available to make them. BG2 was made by like twelve people.
You can still go download Near Infinity and crack open the game's files and see what you can do. NI is a modern toolkit developed and improved specifically for the Infinity Engine games. It's had decades of work done to improve its functionality. The Bioware team made BG2 with fucking NOTEPAD. The art assets were made in an era before graphics tablets were a thing. Everything you are looking at was assembled with a fucking trackball mouse in a version of Photoshop so primitive it was barely more than a glorified MSPaint. In the goddamn 1990s.

>>3835595
NTA, but 1. Having a smaller number of “companions” with more fleshed out stories and quests, rather than a larger number of generic characters/custom party creation, and 2. Romances. Most cRPGs have aped the BG2 formula since it came out.

>>3835531
>BG3
>true roleplaying
You gave it away here, laid on the bait too thick

>>3835522
haven't played dos3 so definitely bg1 & 2

>>3835531
someone's a fag... design trends like what? lol

>>3835533
hey the viconia romance while annoying to manage, is one of the most satisfying and complex romance. if you can tolerate a drow bitch

>>3835522
3, but mainly because I didn't have a PC to game when it released. Didn't start PC gaming until NWN in 2002. I'd probably have nostalgia and like BG1 better if I played it when it released.

>>3835606
How is it a cornerstone? Beat the game multiple times and did nothing with romances. Think 1 time during all my play throughs Gale said 1 thing at camp and I told him to fuck off.

>>3835606
>>3835617
Shit wrong person, meant to reply to this fag

>>3835533

>>3835617
>pretending millions of dollars and tons of dev time weren't wasted on romances
>pretending that the game doesn't force them down your throat repeatedly
There really are people who just blatantly lie when they know the other party knows the truth. It's wild.

>>3835533
>Ironic considering the worst thing Bioware cursed the genre with was romances, which were a cornerstone of BG3

It's even more ironic considering a lot of the devs from those games now work at Obsidian and not having romances or not having ego stroking romances is the most common flak this board has against Obsidians games.

The curse is so deep it rotted the brain of this board.

>>3835522
Original BGs are far, far better. Turn based is less immersive AND way easier, why would you prefer that? Casuals get off my board.

Just look at difficulty mods for each game, SCS just tweaks the AI but doesn't inflate any stats at all - this provides sufficient challenge. BG3 mods on the other hand have to make everything do double damage and have triple the hp to provide an equivalent challenge but it doesn't end up making it much more fun.
But hey at least you can play BG3 one handed wink wink, no wonder some people here prefer it. They don't actually like good gameplay.

>>3835652
>pausing the game every 2 seconds to circumvent the shit tier pathfinding is le immersive

I liked 3 overall. I couldn't get into 1 and 2, a result of my age as well as the games. Also I hate RTwP.

>>3835597
You're right, yet those monkeys don't care. You could put the finest of wine and cheese and meat and they would complain, but if you put the sloppiest of slop in front of them and they would chomp it up.

>>3835652
>SCS just tweaks the AI
This is objectively incorrect. Look at the readme and get back to me.
>>3835675
Skill issue.

>>3835723
>Look at the readme and get back to me.
good thing EVERYTHING is optional and can omit components you dont like

>>3835626
Cool it with the anti-Semitic remarks

>>3835749
First of all, the standard SCS install (which is what everyone means by SCS unless otherwise stated) changes a shitton. Second, even the AI components tweak more than just scripts, mate. If you actually read the readme you would know this.

BG 1/2 are good despite being RTWP, not because of it
BG3 is bad despite being turn based, not because of it

>>3835757
/thread

>>3835575
So you played through 2 entire games (one being very long) you hated? As someone who rarely finishes games he likes I can't understand this.

>>3835754
First of all, nobody really plays the original BG1 anymore only the Enhanced Edition, which differs quite a bit. BG1 was more of a proof of concept, and BioWare kept refining the engine and gameplay. By the time BG2 and Throne of Bhaal came out a lot had changed. There’s also the unofficial Ascension mod, created by BG’s design director David Gaider himself, which overhauled ToB’s final chapter, reworked encounters and made the rushed expansion feel much more satisfying, sadly most people who played the original unmodded game never experienced it. Thing is nobody wants the tedium of 20 arrow stacks, horrible loot picking and pixel-hunting every location just because the original BG1 lacked a simple function like highlight button, those were exactly the kind of improvements added in later releases. I treat SCS the same way, its a 20 years tried and tested mod by passionate people which improves the gameplay and makes BG1/2 more fun in every aspect.

>>3835777
> First of all, nobody really plays the original BG1 anymore only the Enhanced Edition
Stopped reading here. Waste of trips.

>>3835779
I’m glad you revealed your crippling autism and mentally retardation so i dont have to waste my time anymore.

>>3835777
>moving the goal posts
>changing the topic
>throwing out the bait
Pretty poor discussion tactics you have there. You would have been better off taking the L and admitting SCS changes more than "just the AI". It is an important distinction to make, so I corrected you and now you're throwing a little bitch fit. Enjoy all the changes and modifications you like, but don't act like you're somehow not changing the game when you are.
>First of all, nobody really plays the original BG1 anymore only the Enhanced Edition.
>Thing is nobody wants the tedium of 20 arrow stacks, horrible loot picking and pixel-hunting every location
This exists only in your head. I reckon it's because you've fried your brain on drugs or social media, but I could be wrong. Maybe you were just born retarded. Regardless, what a waste of trips.

>>3835786
i thought u said u didnt read it, hope you play 640x480 on CRT unpatched version on windows 95 and CRT and pentium 200mhz otherwise its not valid faggot. Thats last time im giving u attention you are clearly mentally unwell and will kill yourself sooner than later.

>>3835789
>being this mentally ill
Take your meds.

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>>3835598
I'm not sure I'm really understanding what you're trying to say. Are you trying to claim that companions with fleshed out stories comprised of personality development that takes place if you interact with them and help them with their personal quests... are you... you're saying that's... BAD?!

>>3835804
>Are you trying to claim that companions with fleshed out stories comprised of personality development that takes place if you interact with them and help them with their personal quests... are you... you're saying that's... BAD?!
It was novel and interesting at the time, but the crux is that it hinges upon having interesting characters and talented writers. Look what’s happened to the cRPG genre over the past few decades. With the benefit of hindsight, it was clearly a mistake. Now they’ve turned into dating sims with ugly and deeply unlikeable characters, written by irony-poisoned millennials who use fantasy worlds as a soapbox from which to project their modern politics. The dominance of the BG2 formula has been a monkeys paw, at best, even if BG2 itself will always have a fond place in my heart.

Nu-cRPGs are literally more fun if you return to monke and use custom parties of mute generics and completely reject all companions (if you’re even allowed to lmao), in my subjective opinion.

>>3835811
The specific games you're whining about have been universally lauded as among the greatest works of art our species has ever created.
Just... keep that in mind.

>>3835811
>Nu-cRPGs are literally more fun if you return to monke and use custom parties of mute generics and completely reject all companions (if you’re even allowed to lmao), in my subjective opinion.
I can't play it otherwise. Poe 1 and 2 are still shit, despite looking fantastic. Will soon play nwn in bg2 with ripped poe 1 and 2 assets. Actually people should use the assets to create something interesting. Bg3 as dungeon crawler is fun.

>>3835777
Are you actually Gayder? His mod is nice, but doesn't do much other than changing the boss fights and likely bugging out the final fight because it's so script heavy. (When the script fails the monk cannot be killed.) It's not an overhaul at all, so you must be him to praise it so much.

>>3835522
Original.
>>3835531
That is true, and that is why Black Isle's Icewind Dale is much better.
Even so, BG1 & 2 is still infinitely less repugnant in a plethora of ways, than BG 3.

>>3835543
Do you have autism? Do you panic when something unforseen warranting you to react quickly in real life?
Get real dude

>>3835815
>The specific games you're whining about have been universally lauded as among the greatest works of art our species has ever created.

Which says more about how low the bar has fallen. If the companions of BG3, Pathfinder WotR and shit is the "pinnacle", we're doomed.

>>3835777
The best way to play BG1 is in BGT, using the BG2 Improved UI mod to get all the EE QoL without dealing with Beamdog shit.

>>3835815
This little guy was born past 9/11

>>3835890
This

>>3835522
bg2 is the best game imo because it starts you out at iirc level 7, and so for instance a fighter isn't just a simple kit swing sword and miss, you actually have a few more options, more buttans to press like on a wizard. bg3 is fun but i got to the 3rd act and was 1 level away from max level, and had really good gear, so i lost interest and never beat it. i like how rpgs are moving to turn based now altho i always like rtwp back in the day.

>>3835890
Does it really set a 3 mil xp cap in SoA?

>>3835804
>Are you trying to claim that companions with fleshed out stories comprised of personality development that takes place if you interact with them and help them with their personal quests... are you... you're saying that's... BAD?!
There's a percentage of retards on this board that blame BG2 for all their modern CRPG woes. For some reason it's not the fault of the devs of the other games, it's BG2's fault because they expanded companion interactions and "it started there". Even though companions and companion interaction has been present in RPGs since the beginning, it's still BG2's fault. Even though modern businesses leverage the graphics and romance/companion interaction to hook casuals, it's still BG2's fault because it "gave them the idea".

>>3835522
the originals have a special place in my heart
they got me into crpgs after watching this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjWWuUDtSaE
I was already pretty attracted to dnd but I never played it irl. so having heard bg1 and 2 were like dnd with a cpu dungeonmaster was enough for me to try it out, not expecting much since the graphics were so dated (I began with the enhanced editions)
ended up loving it and being an absolute crpg fan ever since

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>>3835890
there are is a mod which removes beamdog addition with multiple options to suit your needs, most mods got ported and are updated only for EE version and i could not imagine playing bg1/2 without EEex + spell menu UI.

>>3835522
the original.
>>3835525
noob down.

>EET
>SCS
>ToF
>Infinity UI++
>Spell Revision
>Tweaks Anthology
>Imoen Romance Mod
yep, it's gaming time.

>>3835918
>Spell Revision
What does this mod do?
>FANFIC ROMANCE
Please...

>>3835918
>Spell Revision
no thanks, also you forgot https://www.gibberlings3.net/mods/quests/ascension/

>>3835920
it rebalances the spells. some like it, some don't. i do tho.
>>3835923
>Asencsion
true that. i probably forgot some other mods.

I also use custom modified Morpheus powergaming script. Usually by the time i got to ToB prebuffing was killing me but now i press one hotkey and all long lasting buffs i always prebuffed every rest are auto cast for me while i manually cast all specific and short buffs myself when needed. It strikes balance and made late SoA and ToB fun to play again.

>>3835525
Spbp and /thread

>>3835928
I see. Idk, can't say anything about it. Certainly the bg2 spells need balance, at least some. Iirc some are bugged, too. I liked the spells in iwd:ee.

>>3835811
Obviously true post that only brokebrained sun deprived coomers will refute

>>3835941
if you liked how they worked in iwd, then chances are high that you will like the mod. that's where the inspiration was drawn from and some spells were literally backported.

>>3835933
yeah, automating the prebuffing is a must as you progress.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/84149/2-6-bg2-radar-overlay-released
this mod is also very useful.

>>3835901
That's what Tweaks Anthology is for.

for everyone who played SCS to death and want to experience another challenging but different mod theres tactics remix https://www.morpheus-mart.com/tactics-remix

I think BG1/2 will always be special to me, but honestly the game doesn't really do much in the role play side of things, there's just things that are there to take and you can sometimes decide between the nice way and the mean way. You can't even decide to turn down quests. It's less a DnD sim and more a DnD combat sim. BG2 goes harder on a narrative focus instead of just wandering around the woods like the first one, but that never really changes (there's just more dialogue). If anything I think it kind of detracts from its charm and is only balanced out by Irenicus having a great voice and therefor being a great villain
BG3 actually attempting to handle the out of combat side of things in a way many other RPGs avoid goes a long way for me. I also prefer turn based and less of that diablo goblin hoard shit, but really that's a secondary concern. The only thing that really tarnished BG3 a little to me is some choices they made in its direction, but I don't think judging a game by comparing it to one that never existed is particularly fair.

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Thoughts on this change to Aerie hair?

>>3835890
>The best way to play BG1 is in BGT
I’ve been saying this for decades, but I no longer believe it to be true. The next time I feel like playing BG1, it will be in the BG1 engine.

>>3835967
The biggest reason I like Tutu is just for being able to import certain classes if I want to do a replay that spans both games. Otherwise I don't think it's really necessary.

>>3835969
Yeah, if needed I will just use Shadowkeeper and edit my save accordingly.

>>3835967
based

>>3835966
looks worse and makes no sense. she's a hippie winged elf raised at a circus.

>>3835954
have you tried it? it's kind of hard to quickly grasp what are the main differences between this and scs.

>>3835966
Would Aerie both with original and nude hair

I grew up on 1 and 2 but I still prefer 3. The turn based combat is just far superior to RTwP. Also I feel that Larian understands D&D and what it's mean to be about much more than Bioware ever did. The ability to throw things, use environmental damage, stealth mechanics etc. It's the type of things you used to only see in PnP campaigns.

>>3835951
Holy shit, anon. What a fucken nightmare. That is exactly what I hate about those stupid mods. They jam literally a bajillion changes into these things that are all so different and then you have to pick and choose because you do not want all of then. Sure, some of them might be alright, but fuck if I'm gonna take the time to study that gigantic readme. God forbid I have to reinstall, and after how many years my old saves aren't gonna work anymore. What a headache. The original game works great as is. I will tolerate a mod like Unfinished Business because it is focused and it stays in its fucken lane. That anthology shitshow is insane.

Is the SCS mod that much of an improvement over vanilla BG1 and BG2? I played these games a long time ago but I want to do another playthrough. I don't want to change it too much, maybe just improve the AI.

>>3836063
I only finished SCS for BG1 and didn’t enjoy it. SCS for BG2 leans heavily toward “wizard chess” and puzzle gameplay and there is frequently only one correct specific sequence of spells/tactics needed to beat a fight. Some people really enjoy that and it tickles their tism, I don’t care for it personally. And the newer versions of SCS require the “EE”s which is a deal breaker for me

>>3836063
>that much of an improvement over vanilla BG1 and BG2?
No, not really. I don't think it's worth the hassle or the changes. First of all SCS is a huge mod. There's a ton of changes. The AI really isn't so bad in the originals. There certainly is room for improvement, but there currently exists no AI mod that just improves the scripts and nothing else. SCS changes enemies, like what spells/abilities they can use and also adds items in some cases. If you're just coming back from a long break, then you probably won't notice any issue with AI much.

Playing bg2 for the first time.
Why does the game dump multiple time sensitive quests at the same time in chapter 2?
Is this supposed to deter rest-scumming, because having my party constantly nag is obnoxious.

>>3836091
A lot of them only seem to be time sensitive when they actually aren't. iirc it's mostly only for companion specific stuff if you want them in your party outside a handful of them

>>3836091
You mean the companion quests? You didn't actually think people are gonna join your party and risk their neck for literally nothing did you?

>>3835888
Don’t you know Nenio is peak writing

>not playing 20+ years ago
you newfags will never get BG1 and BG2
>muh real time combat hard and BAD
checks out

>>3836091
only companion quests are time sensitive and they will tell you if you wait too long, rest you can take as long as you want even if the wording implies you should hurry.

>>3836063
It’s a mod best suited for subsequent playthroughs. If it’s your first time stick to vanilla and maybe bump the difficulty to Core or higher if you know how D&D works (you can change it at any point in the game).

>>3835522
BG2 remains my favorite, but I did enjoy BG3 a lot more than I initially expected.

>>3836213
BG3 fans aren't BG fans, they're Divinity fans.

>>3836287
And that's just one reason why BG3 is so shitty.

>>3836287
I don't care for Divinity and never played the sequel. I played a shit ton of BG1 and 2. I like BG3

>>3835597
none of that makes the game any better tho

>>3835966
might listen to her whine a bit if she looked like that.

>>3836683
Yes it does, though. If you don't like playing older games, I have terrible news for you: the most recent game you can play was made with outdated technology. Because it takes five years to make one.
So, really, your personal cutoff for when games stop being good is absolutely arbitrary and baseless.
And therefore, no one has to respect your opinion on the matter.

>>3836907
No one has said anything even close to that. What the fuck are you making up schizo?

>>3835522
This is like asking: Do you enjoy loving, satisfying sex with your wife or do you want to get fucked in the ass by some aids ridden freak. You know which option Reddit will prefer.

>>3835522

Honestly i can´t say. Back when i was young i preferred JRPGs over WRPGs. I can play games like CT or Valkyrie profile without feeling they are dated in the slightest but i feel i´m overly critical or biased towards old WRPGs (anything before Dragon Age Origins)

Also i did like BG3 but i think i probably like the DoS and Pathfinder games more. But yeah, BG3 was pretty good.

>>3836683
Sure it does. Could have fooled me. If you didn't like the IE games, then you just don't have any taste, champ. You probably grew up on slop and that's all you like now. It's unfortunate, but ya see it all the time.

>>3835966
>>3836899
>gets LeTired mid fight

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>>3835525
factual

>>3837030
>thrash mobs
stopped reading, faggot

>>3837034
>RTWPchimps are the boomer equivalent of ipad kids
keep reading bitch it'll make you smarter

>>3837035
>dat greentext
yeah, that really gives confidence you have a brain and there was some "thought" instead of stupid buzzword copes

Last time i argued with anti-RTWP poster he exposed himself he didnt even know you can give orders during pause. Since then i ignore those posts cause its guaranteed its larian DOS3 fanoboy who never played or cared about original BG games.

>>3835522
Bg1 and 2 are masterpieces, bg3 is pure shit, gamers are mentally ill to like that piece of crap

I'm sorry but bg1 and 2 have more in common with the hero unit missions of red alert and age of empires than anything resembling a role-playing game, tabletop or video

>>3837058
>a retard shares his opinion

>>3835522
the original games were better imo.

BG3 peaks in act 2 and feels like its running on fumes when you finally get to the city. BG1 opens up even more so when you get to the titular city.

the vibe of BG3 is silly. its like its afraid to take itself seriously and really get stuck into the setting. its wears thin. you can't be epic and silly at the same time. whereas BG1 wears its heart on it sleeve from day 1. grandiose speeches and thrilling showdowns from the get go. sure theres some comic relief but its better to have comic relief than constant comedy

the setting of BG3 feels very generic until you get to the city. BG1 is very much set in the sword coast, famous locations and factions. BG3 could be anywhere.

alignment/classes/stats/itemization all feel meaningless in BG3. you can change to anything you like at any time and most "builds" simply revolve around cheesing some mechanic.


its still a good game but i don't think it holds up to the rest of the series. its the fallout 3/4 of baldurs gate games

>>3837061
Did I hit a nerve gay jew nigger?

>>3837030
Lmao.
>turn-based enjoyers are fragile, slop drones
>turn-based haters are goblin jews
RTwP enjoyers must be charismatic, white colonizers. How many generations of turn-baseders would it take to colonize the new worlds?
>>3837045
Indeed. Last time I spoke with one thry eventually admitted that it's just too difficult to manage everything all at once. In every single RTwP & TB thread I've seen, the consensus is that TB is a good way to make a game easier and everyone who hates RTwP lacks skill and understanding.
>>3837058
>bg1 and 2 have more in common with legendary games than modern, AAA slop
Really makes you think.

>>3837081
>alignment/classes/stats/itemization all feel meaningless in BG3. you can change to anything you like at any time and most "builds" simply revolve around cheesing some mechanic.
That's because it's D&D 5e. Those specific features are very commonly cited as crippling design failures. They are not the only problems, but they are definitely well understood and recognized ones.

BG3's writing all over is just awful childrens' cartoon level. It is not an epic fantasy piece with gravitas. It has nothing significant to say about the human condition. It's a softcore porn dating sim with a tedious combat system you can sidestep by throwing barrels.

>>3835845
AFAIK it got rewritten by guy who made SCS for EE, didnt have an issue with Balthazar but theres persistent bug since vanilla with dragon transformation and Amelyssan teleporting on top of you and you getting stuck inside their character model so active console command and CTRL+J to teleport out is a must, Ascension + SCS is also hard as balls definitely not recommended for 1st time players, i did it as my 2nd ToB playthrough, absorbed decent amount of meta knowledge through YT and wiki and still wanted to drop it after 5th failed attempt at ascesion fight. It’s such a brutal, drawn-out slog, even Abazigal can take 1h with those mods as demonstrated in this guy vid.
https://youtu.be/wu4jBLU5U0E?list=PL9VJninnnZ-on-cwFys-W4gIi1gaWYlwX&t=10522

>>3835525
Probably the most important gaming innovation within the rpg genre

>>3835525
yes
and so is larian

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>>3835723
>well ackshually
No need to be so nitpicky

>>3835522
I enjoyed the OG trilogy. A little clunky by modern standards but retains soul and a lot of good design.
Wouldn't waste my time playing BG3 even if it was free. Zoomer RPG fans have the worst taste imaginable.

>>3835594
>Also ToB was an expansion of BG2, so there was no "trilogy",
Technically true, unfortunately you're a massive faggot. Throne of Bhaal plays much more like an abbreviated sequel than an expansion. It's perfectly reasonable to treat to BG1, SOA and TOB as a trilogy. Durlag's Tower and Watcher's Keep are expansion content.

>>3835675
>reductionist shitpost
as always
smart people would have better arguments.

>>3837058
>anything resembling a role-playing game
A true RPG is a tactics and strategy game played from the perspective of the units rather than the army commander and is comprised of PvE-style adventures rather than PvP-style warfare.

No one with even a little knowledge of gaming history should every be surprised to see a tactical or strategy game sharing remarkable similarities with RPGs. People who don't realize this have been brainwashed by cinematic videogames and the feminized method-acting fruitcakes who have invaded the genre.

>>3837112
>Being brown
>Being colonized
Average nucodexer

>>3838092
>Still parroting zoomers give a shit about larian
What causes this mental retardation? You see more gen z shilling owlcat shit than anything from larian.

>>3838103
In the real world it's zoomers playing BG3. Your dumbass board drama perspective warped is warped by owlcat shills and not relevant.

>>3835522
I prefer Icewind Dale, BG as a whole has a really terrible habit of just grabbing you by the wrist and dragging you off in a random direction when you're already doing something.

>>3838103
>Being brown
>Being colonized
Is that who and what you are? The seethe always points to the truth.

>>3838114
>BG as a whole has a really terrible habit of just grabbing you by the wrist and dragging you off in a random direction when you're already doing something.
Sounds like real life.

I liked the new stuff in BG3 but every returning character, lore or thing was a fucking terrible downgrade.

>>3838137
>every returning character, lore or thing was a fucking terrible downgrade.
Accurate. They even endorsed the cringe "Abdel Adrian" shit.

>>3838137
I think Jaheira was a notable exception to that, but otherwise agree

>>3838137
every character in BG3 is garbage, returning or otherwise

>>3835522
bg1&2 are the greatest games ever made. currently doing an scs no reload run

>>3838251
They used to be the best games ever made. They are still mandatory for anyone to understand the history of video games as a medium and their impact on culture. But there is now finally a better game.

And it isn't BG3.

>>3838261
PATHFINDER BABEE

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>>3838261
>But there is now finally a better game.

>>3838293
It's like they intentionally made that game as ugly as they possibly could.

>>3838305
>they

>>3838273
I am fully prepared to declare that Wrath Of The Righteous is a better game and story than BG1&2... And believe me, I have loved BG2 for all that time in between.

>>3838421
No one cares about your gay opinion. Pathfinder sucks

>>3838421
I think Wrath of the Righteous is really held back by its poor encounter design. The basic mechanics are arguably better than those in BG2, but the enemies are really boring and have such incredibly simplistic AI that you won't even see enemy rogues attempting to prioritize sneak attack.

>>3835522
Real-time RPG with pause is one of the worst combat systems ever made, probably worse than ATB

>>3838456
I'm ok with agreeing that the game is incredibly grindy and some bosses are **WAY** overtuned. Also they didn't understand that SR is calculated from HD of the creature, and without mods all enemy buffs are cast at caster level 20 at minimum (some have a caster level of 40...?!) which means they cannot be dispelled at all, which makes those encounters even more ridiculous. So lots of issues about encounters being either mechanically illegal (Staunton, for example) or obnoxiously tedious (fucking Drezen...).

Wrath is such a wacky ultra-hyper-super-batshit insane power scale, though, that the rocket tag begins at level 6, and no encounters will last longer than two rounds past level 10. Which means enemies don't really have the opportunity to use AI anyway.

I think the reason they didn't spend much time on enemy AI is that it would require an abstract way of classifying all the thousands of feats and spells and abilities so that an algorithm could know where to aim them or when to use them. And that's.... just not a task they had the manpower for. Pathfinder is fundamentally not meant for computers to run. It's a tabletop game designed for munchkin wargame nerds.

Enemy rogues will sneak attack targets if their target is valid for sneak attack since that's automatic. But what they don't do is "hmmm that mage has an AC of 13 so he's easily hit so me and my crew are gonna prioritize that character". Which would be unrealistic for starters, but also it would defeat the purpose of classes. Because then the mage becomes the tank. Or, in other words, BAB and AC just becomes completely meaningless on everyone except for the weakest and strongest targets in the encounter.

>>3838531
It was done that way in those games because the target demographics of that era of gaming were still deep in the throes of MMOs (EQ1 and WoW), MOBAs (DotA and later League) and RTS games (Warcraft / Starcraft and Warhammer) as genres. So they demanded "more action-based" gameplay. By which the players in those days *specifically* meant "not turn-based".

You might not like it now in retrospect, but those games were made like that because of the demands of their target audience.

>>3838538
>a 1998 game used RTWP because of games which would come out in 1999 (EQ), 2003 (DotA), 2004 (WoW), and 2009 (League)
*tousles your broccoli hair affectionately*

>>3838538
>>3838572
Hilarious that he didn't mention the one game that was actually the inspiration for rtwp: Diablo.

>>3838578
Diablo would’ve been a good illustration of that claim since it started development as a turn based game and was adapted into real time at some point in development, likely to chase the RTS trend of the day.
Iirc the infinity engine wasn’t originally developed for Baldurs gate, it was developed for an unreleased RTS, and then shoehorned into an RPG engine.

>>3835522
I prefer Baldur's Gate 3 over them.
I played them long time ago and i liked them, played them again 8 years ago and i found them to be just ok, my tastes have developed a lot in the last 10 years, i used to like games for their story, now after i played a lot of different games and i read books and watched a lot of films and anime i started liking games for their game design much more. Even a game like Dragon Age and The Witcher which i used to love a lot i find it hard to replay them today, i just find their writing quality much inferior to what i can get somewhere else, and i always find myself replaying games with good and fun game design, when i want to play games i want to enjoy playing them.
Baldur's Gate 3 is one of the best simulation for DND ever made, it has strong game design, the gameplay is very dense, so much interactivity and options for problem solving and the level design is absolutely top notch, the world is designed in interconnected levels and the map is dense with verticality and content, the encounter design is sublime and the production values are something i always wanted from a CRPG, all these years and finally one has been made that doesnt shit the bed or simplify its mechanics like Bethesda and bioware did, it stays true to the roots of the genre.

Baldur's Gate 2 is still a solid game to play, but 1 and the Throne of Bhaal aged so poorly, 1 is outdated in most ways because 2 improved on it and icewind dale is improved as well, and throne of bhaal is one of the most overrated expansions ever.

>>3838144
They should have done an anagram of Charname.

>>3838456
The writing, and every original mechanic introduced that isn't just some adapted pathfinder rule being jank also holds it back a bit. It's value is being a bloated as fuck game you can play forever if you like dnd a lot.

>>3838611
It kinda sounds like you really like Larian's engine, which I believe is called Divinity 4.0. I played DOS2 and I do like the engine, but I don't really like what they did with it. They had an incredible opportunity to craft a truly bespoke CRPG experience, but they cut way too many corners. When I say that I mean they chose to solve the "problem" of itemization with RNG instead of man-made, hand-placed. They also drank too much of the "everything can be picked up and put in your pack, lmao" juice. The Divinity 4.0 engine is like a brand new Lamborghini with all the bells and whistles compared to the Infinity Engine's old ass station wagon. Yet, look what Bioware/Black Isle Studios did with it? Truly an incredible and beautiful experience on that 2D engine. For all the resources and strength Larian had pushing BG3 out, I'm more than disappointed in the result. Sure, their engine is great, but their game devolves into degeneracy way too quickly and it lacks the seriousness that was, quite frankly, taken for granted in the Baldur's Gate series. It's a perfect example of the difference between the talented & the skilled and the talentless & the unskilled. You give someone with skill and talent a piece of shit and they can turn it into a masterpiece. You give a hack state of the art tech, equipment and financing and they'll squander it.

>>3838671
Perhaps even calling it a station wagon is too much. Maybe a go kart would be more accurate.

>>3838656
That would’ve been clever. Well beyond Larians writers, unfortunately.

>>3838293
that game looks like complete dogshit, you must be trolling

>>3838421
BG2 is 25 years old and still hasn't been surpassed imo by any of the nu-crpgs like Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder games etc. I found the Pathfinder games you get burned out mid-playthrough. It's been a while since I played them but I remember them being quite grindy and tedious. Like the kingdom management shit for example in the 1st game. Anyways, it's quite sad BG2 is still the king all these years later.

>>3838699
>it's quite sad BG2 is still the king all these years later.
Indeed.

>>3835811
>Nu-cRPGs are literally more fun if you return to monke and use custom parties of mute generics and completely reject all companions
I find myself agreeing with you, but I still get annoyed when these nu-cRPGs push obviously tropey, token or soapbox characters on me that I have to then dismiss from the party.

It usually signals of more to come, that the developers expect this to trend with me, that they think it appeals to me. It signals I'm not their customer, and yet they likely took my money after fooling me into thinking I should be.

>but why not pirate
At some point this becomes such a widespread issue with new content that almost nothing is even worth playing to begin with after 2015.

>>3838741
>I still get annoyed when these nu-cRPGs push obviously tropey, token or soapbox characters on me that I have to then dismiss from the party.
Yes. In BG3 in particular you can tell that the devs were salty about players not wanting to use their “origin characters”. They hobbled the functionality from DOS2 of directly recruiting custom generics in-game, replacing them with pre-canned combinations of race and class, and too bad if you don’t want them. DOS2 and BG3 still have a workaround to create a custom party in a multiplayer game and then loading that game as a single player save (same as BG1/2, though Larians is clunkier since it requires launching four instances of the game client) but I wouldn’t be surprised if they remove that feature from their next game.

There were several other areas of BG3 I was disappointed that they removed/worsened functionality from DOS2 despite that being their previous game on the same engine. The inventory system in bg3 is fucking awful (at least it was at launch) and dumps everything in a big pile instead of sorting by tabs of item type, and they made the in-world tooltips of items super dumbed down, now it only shows the items name and nothing else.

>>3838780
>The inventory system in bg3 is fucking awful
I would bet good money there was at least one autist at Larian that knew the inventory was a mess and it bothered him greatly, so he kept squawking to the higher ups about it, but they just ignored him and told him to go work on coding the tranny shit instead. I would absofuckinlutely love to meet him and shake his hand.

>>3838798
They added a text field for searching your inventory by name, which was a cool idea, but at launch it, too, was broken and didn't work half the time. Not sure if they ended up fixing it, I haven't played it much since launch.

>>3837027
hey hot bitches get to be tired

>>3835525
Have fun slowing the game to a crawl for trivial turn-based encounters. Turn-based is only good if you can do an auto-resolve ala Total War games for non-narrative nonsense fights you easily outclass.

RTwP allows you to fluidly move through random encounters without much friction, pausing at leisure for harder fights, though the real solution would be to merge the two: Real-Time with Turn-Based Toggle.

>>3838831
Trash fights shouldn't be in the game. If it's not worth fighting in turn-based mode, it's not worth fighting.

>>3838833
I don't really disagree with that but that's not really the case in turn-based games in practice.

>>3838831
>>3838833
Ya. It's the only thing holding Wrath back, really. But in full fairness, the ultra power fantasy is part of what people wanted from Wrath so they couldn't make it a true RPG, really.

>>3835522
Easily. The original trilogy is a true classic, BG3 is nu-fantasy for the Critical Role audience.

>>3838833
What exactly is your aversion to playing the game? If you don't like it, you just don't like it, mate.

>>3839062
>What exactly is your aversion to playing the game?
[citation needed]

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>>3835904
Whether you blame BG2 for it or not, as low-IQ trolls like >>3835531 do, you can't deny that BG2 did emphasize those design elements-- especially when compared to the original BG1. And you can't deny that the crpg revival of BG-inspired games (beginning with Pillars of Eternity) proceeded from the BG2 approach not the BG1 approach.

BG1 had a convergent design where the game starts out very open-ended. The player is presented with some fairly obvious paths to advance the story if they want, but the narrative urgency is minimal and the player is free to explore the world as his own pace, discovering many optional events, side quests and dungeons. This phase is when the player is expected to encounter and recruit party members. Eventually the main story picks up urgency and narrows into Baldur's Gate for the late game.

The BG1 cast is thus spread throughout the world, and the player isn't expected to recruit or even discover many of them on a single playthrough. These characters are designed to be notable and memorable, but also to reinforce the storytelling and verisimilitude of the setting and game world. Although the BG1 characters have personality, motives and goals, the game is not primarily focused on exploring their storylines. Their subplots fit in as a small part of the overall adventure.

BG2 on the other hand, as a linear storyline with a few branches. Instead of an open-ended, free roam world, you have an urgent main narrative. The main narrative is quickly and awkwardly blocked and the player is given a flimsy excuse to pursue elaborate side quests. Each side quest is typically a substantial self-contained storyline and for the most part everything is driven by these quests and storylines. You rarely just discover a location and explore it, you follow a questline through a mostly-linear sequence of encounters and events.

>>3835606
>muh complex romance
part and parcel of the pretentiousness, uncluding the one characterizing coalywood.

>>3839082
>Trash fights shouldn't be in the game.

>>3839086
Quite the bait post you have there.
>posts pic with comparison between BG1 dungeon and BG2 dungeon
>BG1 dungeon is a copy pasted maze
>BG2 dungeon is a totally unique, hand-drawn set piece
What point are you actually trying to make here?
>Argues BG1 is open ended because the map is discoverable by travel while BG2 is linear because you have to talk to someone to get directions to world map locations
BG2 isn't nearly as linear as you make it out to be. The amount of freedom to do whatever you want, however you want in BG2 is immense compared to most games. I fail to see how Sarevok and his iron crisis is any less "linear" than Irenicus and his assault on the World Tree. They're literally both big bads on their way to world domination and you have to deal with both of them and their pet projects whether you like it or not. Each game has set pieces that are placed in such a way that you have to go through them in order to progress. Talking to someone to get directions to a world location and discovering it yourself are just two ways to go about it. One way isn't superior to the other. The real test of whether a world is open-ended and free roam is if you can actually go explore it in whatever way you like. The reality is modern devs aren't copying BG2 because it's "linear" and "urgent", that's a flawed premise to begin with. Modern devs are making linear games with heavy companion interaction because linear games are easier to make and companion romance is what casuals want, as in that's what sells.

>>3839163
>Quite the bait post you have there.
Only to a binary-brain retard who thinks I absolutely HAVE to be shitting on one or the other. You're not a binary-brain retard are you?

>>3839177
I think you're shitting on yourself, mate.

>>3839163
>I fail to see how Sarevok and his iron crisis is any less "linear" than Irenicus and his assault on the World Tree.
You fail to see a difference because you didn't even try to understand the point and aren't comparing relevant things at all.

BG1: After the short tutorial in Candlekeep you're kicked out with a hasty recommendation to meet up with friends of Gorion at an Inn. After the murder event, you're dumped on the road with no further instructions or quests or any kind of objective whatsoever. Your main objective is just to survive. You'll get the strange nightmare events periodically, as you sleep. You'll encounter the assassins targeting you. The "Iron Crisis" quest events are out there, waiting for you to find on your own. You can follow Gorion's recommendation to meet Khalid and Jaheira at the Friendly Arm Inn to go the standard route, or you can go off on your own. Wherever you go, you're likely to head about iron crisis, which as yet has no obvious link to your current problems or destiny.

If ANY modern crpg dev uses this approach, feel free to point it out explicitly.

This is ENORMOUSLY different from the design of BG2, which begins with Irenicus abducting you and putting you in a dungeon with Imoen. Chateau Irenicus is a substantial level that counts as a whole story chapter. After the escape, Irenicus and Imoen are taken to Spellhold, which is the obvious, unambiguous next main plot objective. You're "free" to explore Athkatla but as soon as you hit the slums will be guided to Gaelan Bayle to start Chapter 2 and formalize the current objective (do unrelated sidequests to raise money for the main quest).

May write more later, if your response to this isn't completely retarded.

>>3839196
Yeah, I think your rose colored glasses are blinding you to the similarities between the two. They're really not much different, to the point that if one is non-linear, then the other is not far behind and vice versa.

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>>3839086
what a disingenuous pic holy fuck, if you want to call it unseeing eye dungeon then include entire Old Tunnels, Ghoul Town, Passage to the Pit of the Faithless and Pit of the Faithless all of which are very detailed unique areas which mog annoying copy pasted firewine narrow corridors where your party pathfinding gets constantly stuck.

>>3839199
No, the other guy is right. Lots of people played BG1 pretending to be just some adventurer. It's not possible in the second one because its storytelling is very intrusive. Well, you can for a bit in act 2, which is probably everyone's favorite part of the game.

>>3839225
BG2 is massive and you free to do 70% of content before going to to underdark.

>>3839158
NTA but I was the one he was responding to originally. The context for that comment had to do with answering the critique that turn-based games tend to have unnecessary slowdowns for trivial combats that you know without a doubt you'll win.

His solution was that trash fights shouldn't be in the game, that is, in a proper turn-based game every combat encounter should be worth engaging with and exploring.

>>3839298
Accurate summary.
>t. that anon

>>3839233
It doesn't matter. The way you do it, the structure of the content itself is very different. There is a very obvious difference between the design of BG1 and BG2, and nobody copies BG1. That's the salient point. I didn't think pointing out this distinction was anything controversial at all (certainly not bait lol).

>>3839163
>Talking to someone to get directions to a world location and discovering it yourself are just two ways to go about it.
It makes a huge difference. And it's also incorrect to pretend as if this is only meaningful difference in content structure between BG1 and BG2. It's the difference between an exploration narrative and actual exploration via game mechanics. It is silly to suggest that talking to NPCs in Athkatla (or Trademeet) looking for quests is anything remotely like the raw exploration of the countryside outside Baldur's Gate in BG1.

>Modern devs are making etc...
I'm specifically talking about crpgs with an emphasis on the "crpg revival" that isn't even really "modern" now given that Pillars of Eternity is 10 years old. PoE and Pathfinder: Kingmaker openly drew direct inspiration from Infinity Engine era. None of them have the same BG1-style open world structure with a large cast of recruit-able characters. Their world design, quest structure and recruitable NPCs are much closer to BG2 than BG1.

>>3839222
>what a disingenuous pic holy fuck,
What's disingenuous about it?
I didn't say it was bad, just different.
Jesus Christ you faggots are thin-skinned and obnoxious.

Firewine Ruins is widely considered one of the most frustrating and unfun dungeons in BG1. It was a bad fit for the game engine, requiring awkward and tedious micromanagement of the party even before you account for AI pathfinding difficulties.

The contrast picture is a way to illustrate the massive shift in design approach between the two games. In BG1, you have a maze with minimal aesthetic variety, densely packed with samey combat encounters (and crazy respawn). In BG2, you have a linear sequence of 3 enemy encounters and a unique NPC area. Each section is spacious and has an encounter custom-crafted to the specific features of the environment.

I guess you just drunkly aimed your bleary eyes at the picture, saw that the left side had lots of words on it and the right side had no words, and assumed you must mean I thought the left side was "better."

>if you want to call it unseeing eye dungeon
It's just the filename, dipshit.

>Two anons arguing about dungeon density or something
I never played these games for the dungeon crawling but the gnoll fortress and clearing de'Arnise keep were both my favorite in each respective game but also the point of maximum tolerance for dungeon autism for me.

This isn't a stance against dungeon crawling, period, though, I liked it in Temple of Elemental Evil for instance, but I think the IE games are unsuited to it. Just play through any of them in Icewind Dale to see what I mean.

>>3835522
Original, RTwP being one reason. BG3 is a great game though, enjoying playing it multiple times.

>Reddit's gate

>>3835522
BG3 was good but it really shouldn't have been tied to the original games.

Next up: Dark Sun crpg by Owlcat or something.

>>3839158
This is such a stupid sentiment made up to justify turn based. I love slaughtering masses of creeps just as much as a smaller encounter vs some stronger dudes. AoE spells should serve a fucking purpose in these games! Why should an RPG not have quests like "go kill this goblin village" just because uhhhhhh it's a "trash" fight wahhh wahhh. There are ways to make such "trash" fights difficult and interesting too, like maybe your party got ambushed and surrounded or split up somehow. God forsake there being variety in an RPG.

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Why can't we have epic large scale fights between 2 armies? Oh right because we are being brainwashed to think it's just a "trash" fight and that we should suffer a shittier game system without these cool parts to justify it

>>3837030
Funny meme, too bad that the turn-based combat of BG3 doesn't ACTUALLY pause things, so if you start a fight with the druids and they start killing the tieflings, they slaughter them in real time while you fight the druid leader in turn-based combat, the stupidest compromise ever.

Startling to see people pretend like these games have deep tactics whether they're RTWP or turn-based. It's an RPG, the only tactic that matters is leveling up, you're literally too stupid to understand this and think you're tactical geniuses for getting to level 11 so you can unlock the Kill My Enemies For Me Thank You spell.

>>3839788
To get more out of a game if you buy into that illusion at least a little. Otherwise you're better off with basically any other medium. Personally, the only line I have is pre-buffing. That shit is cancer

>>3839762
>near incoherent schizoid ranting
If 'trash fights' were made difficult and interesting then by definition they wouldn't be trash fights.

I agree about the fun of the quick mindless AOEing of groups of low-powered mooks but they work way better in RTwP or real-time games than they do in turn-based.

Is it really that riveting if you have to slow everything to a stop for initiatives and turn orders and getting yourself positioned just because some random encounter spawned 5 goblins for the 20th time on the road?
Or in Rogue Trader when you have to stop your ship to fight off the same 8 tzeentch daemons, random encounters that are copies of each other that just spin up over and over identically?

>>3839788
I know you're trying to bait but you're not actually wrong. Its the same problem in TTRPGs. These games are ultimately just mathematical formulae and victory is guaranteed after you get over the initial difficulty hump of learning how the rules work. After that, the mystery is dispelled and the aspect of playing the game for different builds and the tactical combat stops being fun.

>>3837030
>wall of text
>motivated by butthurt
>not funny
>mostly strawman
Looks like RTwP haters took meme lessons from leftists.

>>3839833
>victory is guaranteed after you get over the initial difficulty hump of learning how the rules work
That goes for literally any PvE game.
>once you learn how to beat the computer, you win
Its alright, anons. We got fucken Sherlock Holmes on the case.

>>3839820
>pre-buffing
All things in moderation, bud. Take anything to the extreme and it will start to break.

>>3839865
It works for every PvP game too, I'm guessing you think that ambushing someone unsuspecting and then using all stun/control abilities to reduce a health score to 0 before the opponent can react or escape is somehow a novelty.

>>3839877
>It works for every PvP game too
If that were true, you wouldn't be trolling a slow ass forum about RPGs. You'd be raking in the dough from your cush e-sports career.

>>3839879
It works for traditional sports like football and basketball too, anon, every game 'field' whether PvP or PvE can eventually be solved. But people still show up to compete or watch, just look at chess tournaments.

At some point all you're watching for is whether or not this or that individual had some minimum reaction time, or were clever enough to realise the play that should've been made.

>>3839886
For want of a nail, the kingdom was lost

>>3839855
Listen chuddie, you are too low iq to keep talking here so stfu and stop trying to insert your retardation into completely different topics and just kys.

>>3839910
thanks for your input butthurt-billy.

>>3839886
100% theory. The premise of your argument hinges on a guarantee, but a theory, by its very nature, can't guarantee anything. Thank you for proving my point.

>>3839436
>dark sun
If only WotC wasn't afraid of the setting. I'm actually happy they decided not to bring it back for 5E since they would have to soften it for their modern audience. Dark Sun by Owlcat has the potential to be great, though.

>>3835525
This.
It's usually just a poor compromise between publisher demands and game studio vision, but in the worst case it's something that a game studio actively pursues because they haven't a got a clue what they actually want to do.

>>3840819
>the worst case it's something that a game studio actively pursues because they haven't a got a clue what they actually want to do.
No one does this.

>>3835522
BG1+2. BG3 is a terrible game.

>>3841249
BG2 holds up decently, but compared to more modern RPGs it's small and primitive, though polished enough to be fun. B1 did not age well.

>>3841347
>B1 did not age well.
It has pros and cons.
And unfortunately, people too often dwell on the parts that "did not age well" and incompetently fail to distinguish why, and what good aspects might have been lost in the BG2 improvements.

>>3841347
>>3841433
Growing up, I liked bg2 more just because there’s more stuff, more kits and classes and HLAs and powerful items and higher power curve in general.
One of the few opinions I’ve changed in response to debates on /vrpg/ is that I now prefer bg1 over bg2 due to its simplicity and its focus on a low level party adventuring through open wilderness, as opposed to the on-rails spectacle and tighter focus of bg2. Next time I play it will be in the bg1 engine and not ported into bg2.

>>3841433
>did not age well
Technically you did not age well. The old game, Baldur's Gate, never changed. You did. If you can no longer enjoy it, then I'd have to say that you changed for the worse.

>>3841452
This meme has never been funny.

>>3841456
Yeah. I agree. Games do not age.

>>3835522
I dropped both before the end of the first act out of sheer boredom. Forgotten Realms always had this effect on me.

Can you kill that drow bitch in Act one, then finish the quest and resurrect her and make her join you?

>>3842095
You can only resurrect characters after you recruit them, so no.

>>3841347
>compared to more modern RPGs it's small and primitive

fucking small how, it still dwarfs almost every modern RPG in terms of sheer content

>Dwarf (Duergar)
>Can cast enlarge as a cantrip
>Barbarian of the giant subclass
>Can rage, which enlarges them
>Elixer of collosus
>Same as casting enlarge
That's 3x enlargenings
That should put them from Medium size class into Gargantuan size class
That's bigger than a dragon in theory
The size of a nauteloid

>>3842095
>Can you kill that drow bitch in Act one, then finish the quest and resurrect her and make her join you?
Assuming you're talking about Minthara, no, you need to knock her out, not kill her. You can still finish the quest by knocking her out.

>>3842251
>triple enlarge
ur mum

>>3835522
I don't like any of them and prefer neverwinter nights

>>3842251
It doesn't stack.

>>3841347
It's still large and unlike BG3 it isn't 90% filler content and cut scenes.

>>3842628
It would in the IE.

>>3842629
BG3 is such a fucking embarrassment, honestly. And yes it is fucking BORING. Waiting through a thirty minute high school improv theater tier "social interaction" while a blue-purple-green hyper-cutesy demon girl sighs and giggles about absolutely fucking nothing interesting at all before she FUCKING BEGINS SINGING AT ME.... Not, like, singing like a professional with skill or accompaniment. Not singing in any way that is relevant to what's going on in the story or the context of the environment. Just like... hey nonny nonny Renfaire three chords on a lute plodding anus-puckering cringe.

I am not interested in watching Etsy influencers, Tumblr rejects and Renfaire hawks play improv theater. Especially not when there apparently is no woman in the entire game who isn't shrieking through your screen about how they're such a big muscle dommy mommy lesbian. It's so monotonous. Seriously, guys. Larian. Dude. Larian. Is there no one in that studio who has any kind of imagination? That's the ONLY example of a woman you can come up with? Hundreds of times in a row?

We get Halsin, Astarion, Gale and Wyll, and they're all different kinds of men. But you can't come up with a woman who isn't a six foot tall roided up butch bitch? You showed that you understood there's lots of ways to be heroic as a man, but you can't imagine how to present a woman otherwise?

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>>3843089
>But you can't come up with a woman who isn't a six foot tall roided up butch bitch?
Fun fact:
BG1 has 25 characters, with a mean strength of 13.35 and a population standard deviation of 3.25. There are 10 outliers with high strength (8 male, 2 female) and 9 outliers with low strength (3 male, 6 female).
BG2 has 16 characters, with a mean strength of 14.33, and a population standard deviation of 3.56. There are 7 outliers with high strength (7 male, 0 female) and 5 outliers with low strength (2 male, 3 female).
BG3 has 10 characters, with a mean strength of 12.00, and a population standard deviation of 3.63. There are 3 outliers with high strength (0 male, 3 female) and 3 outliers with low strength (3 male, 0 female).

>>3842228
BG2?! Uhhhhh no? Sheer content? Have you played it? You can complete the game in less than 30 hours just casually wandering around. I should know, I've literally played all the way through from Chateau Irenicus to the end of ToB like fifteen times so far since the game came out. And that's not counting the various just fucking around plays while tinkering with Near Infinity.
BG2 is itsy bitsy compared to Kingmaker or Deadfire.

>>3843092
.... Ok, thanks I guess I rest my case...?

>>3835522
Gameplay wise, BG3, easily.
In most other regards except generalized "graphics", the originals. Tone especially is something I didn't really jive with for BG3. It just feels really awkward about where it lies in on the power and importance scales for some reason.

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>>3835522
Gameplay: I'm leaning BG3. I've grown to prefer TB. And encounter design is really good.
Writing: BG2:SoA is the best (just competent fantasy pulp). BG3 might have the worst main plot I've ever seen.
...
I don't want to go on a rant, but I truly LOATHE the writing in BG3. Well, large parts of it. Some of the side stuff is okay.

>>3835522
D&D was never good so it doesn't matter

>>3835522
BG3 is the only good one

>>3843161
>the game I've played 15 times is really short
Get real, mate. First playthrough would take a pretty damn long time if you went everywhere, talked to everyone and did everything. There is a ton of content in BG2. I have a hard time believing any of those games you mentioned have as much, especially more, content as BG2.

>>3843162
I assume he was using your post as an excuse to share the data, not trying to contradict anything.

>>3844355
Yeah, BG2 is a pretty huge game. I could see Kingmaker taking about as much time if you do everything. No way Deadfire is as big, though.

>>3835789
Win 98. And you forgot the CD swapping. Dare I say, exposed.

>>3843166
>>3844269
Samefagging and thinking that 5e gameplay is good? Really?

>>3844701
TB is superior.
I think 5ed is *fine*.
All changes Larian did were for the worse.
And I mostly mean encounter design anyway.

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>>3844853
>I think 5ed is *fine*.

>>3835522
I always hated tabletop fags making video games. They suck dick. They are just the absolute worst kind of game. Go paint your figures and get the fuck out of our hobby.

>>3844934
You are wrong and a faggot as well.

>>3844701
It's DnD, so it will never be good, but just as a recovering meth addict, 5e is certainly making an effort to be much better than its predecessors with pulling back hard on the ivory tower design, useless feats/abilities etc.
BG3 in particular has great map design to make positioning actually matter and enforce some tactical thinking, most importantly, it, for once brings in utility spells and skills and environmental puzzles to use them.
Granted, past level 5-7 you are given enough tools that even the most basic bitch builds can nosweat any encounter, you can long rest (and judging by amount of camp dialogues are expected even) pretty much after each fight which actively works against the entire point of the system, which is resource management (do I upcast this spell to get higher chance I kill the enemy this turn, or do I risk him getting a chance against and having to spend more healing resources down the line?), and Larian broke any semblance of balance the system had for no good reason, but I'll take it over BG1/2's kiting and fighters having no utility past autoattack any day.

BG3 would've been better if it was based around 4e instead, a real tactical ttrpg instead of the half-assed mess 5e was.

>>3845615
>5e is certainly making an effort to be much better than its predecessors with pulling back hard on the ivory tower design, useless feats/abilities etc.
Stopped reading here. 5e is certainly making an effort to be more "accessible" for its new fan base of the melanin-rich, faggots, and women, instead of its original fanbase of white male nerds. Everything about it has been consciously streamlined, simplified, and made as casual as possible for the mass market.

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>>3845706
>Stopped reading here.
Figures a DnD fanboy would be half illiterate.
>Everything about it has been consciously streamlined, simplified, and made as casual as possible for the mass market.
Yes, there's less bloat only to make you feel smart that you didn't pick it. Are you just mad that the only thing you have over them is knowing what RPGBOT is?
I'm not saying 5e is good (65% at lvl 1 and 50% at lvl 10 of times it doesn't matter if an ability check is made by a specialist or not for fuck's sake), but nothing of value was lost when it comes to mechanics.

>>3845615
>fighters having no utility past autoattack any day
An amateur tactician giving his elementary opinion. How adorable.

>>3835522
>bored
>launch bg2
>get reminded how awesome my first playthrough was couple years ago
>now too familiar with the game to enjoy it the same way
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened

>>3839428
BG 1&2 is totally different aesthetically and tone than BG3, like D&D 2e compared to 5e.
>>3844287
D&D is why you have rpgs at all.

>>3844934
Rpgs wouldn't exist without tabletop. Go back to your completely on rails jrpgs.

>>3845740
There were editions before 3e and 3.5e. In fact it's debatable if 3e and 3.5e is truly still D&D, despite being liked by most. And BG1&2 are 2e.

>>3845740
>reading 3E for the first time within a week of the first printing
This is just them trying to jam Magic the Gathering into D&D
>reeeeeeee

>Reading 4E for the first time within a week of the first printing
This is just them trying to jam World of Warcraft into D&D
>reeeeeeee

Here I am, vindicated by history in every way