No.

>>3835522
RTwP is filth

Obviously the original.

>Bioware games
Truly shit and introduced toxic design trends that have plagued RPGs since.
>BG3
Good, very interactive games, emphasizes tactics in combat and true roleplaying. Almost a return to pre-Bioslop design.

>>3835531
Ironic considering the worst thing Bioware cursed the genre with was romances, which were a cornerstone of BG3

3
hate rtwp
love tb
simple as

>>3835531
saaaaar

>>3835522
Baldur's Gate III. I played I and II the summer before Baldur's Gate III, and I was honestly unimpressed. I honestly hated I and I was glad when it ended, and II while better, still wasn't that fun to me. I'm not baiting when I say that I honestly preferred Dragon Age Origins, Pathfinder Kingmaker, and Pathfinder WoTR.
So to answer your question, I prefer III to I and II

BG1 > BG2 > DOS2 > TOB > DOS1 > Divine Divinity > BG3

>>3835522
They are not similar. There is no comparison possible between them. BG3 only has the brand name / logo. It's a completely and profoundly different experience.
Also ToB was an expansion of BG2, so there was no "trilogy", there was just BG1 and its expansions, and BG2 and its expansions.

>>3835531
What were the toxic design trends, specifically? What specific things did you not like that Bioware introduced to RPGs which didn't exist in RPGs before?

>>3835575
What didn't you like about II? Keep in mind that it was made with a shoestring budget on an insanely primitive, unsophisticated engine for ridiculously limited hardware. NEETs tinkering with RPGMaker in their bedrooms today have more resources available to make their games. I'm not exaggerating.
And it was all done DECADES before the Owlcat games. Are the Owlcat games vastly larger and more fully-fleshed? Yes. They also have astronomically more technology and resources available to make them. BG2 was made by like twelve people.
You can still go download Near Infinity and crack open the game's files and see what you can do. NI is a modern toolkit developed and improved specifically for the Infinity Engine games. It's had decades of work done to improve its functionality. The Bioware team made BG2 with fucking NOTEPAD. The art assets were made in an era before graphics tablets were a thing. Everything you are looking at was assembled with a fucking trackball mouse in a version of Photoshop so primitive it was barely more than a glorified MSPaint. In the goddamn 1990s.

>>3835595
NTA, but 1. Having a smaller number of “companions” with more fleshed out stories and quests, rather than a larger number of generic characters/custom party creation, and 2. Romances. Most cRPGs have aped the BG2 formula since it came out.

>>3835531
>BG3
>true roleplaying
You gave it away here, laid on the bait too thick

>>3835522
haven't played dos3 so definitely bg1 & 2

>>3835531
someone's a fag... design trends like what? lol

>>3835533
hey the viconia romance while annoying to manage, is one of the most satisfying and complex romance. if you can tolerate a drow bitch

>>3835522
3, but mainly because I didn't have a PC to game when it released. Didn't start PC gaming until NWN in 2002. I'd probably have nostalgia and like BG1 better if I played it when it released.

>>3835606
How is it a cornerstone? Beat the game multiple times and did nothing with romances. Think 1 time during all my play throughs Gale said 1 thing at camp and I told him to fuck off.

>>3835606
>>3835617
Shit wrong person, meant to reply to this fag

>>3835533

>>3835617
>pretending millions of dollars and tons of dev time weren't wasted on romances
>pretending that the game doesn't force them down your throat repeatedly
There really are people who just blatantly lie when they know the other party knows the truth. It's wild.

>>3835533
>Ironic considering the worst thing Bioware cursed the genre with was romances, which were a cornerstone of BG3

It's even more ironic considering a lot of the devs from those games now work at Obsidian and not having romances or not having ego stroking romances is the most common flak this board has against Obsidians games.

The curse is so deep it rotted the brain of this board.

>>3835522
Original BGs are far, far better. Turn based is less immersive AND way easier, why would you prefer that? Casuals get off my board.

Just look at difficulty mods for each game, SCS just tweaks the AI but doesn't inflate any stats at all - this provides sufficient challenge. BG3 mods on the other hand have to make everything do double damage and have triple the hp to provide an equivalent challenge but it doesn't end up making it much more fun.
But hey at least you can play BG3 one handed wink wink, no wonder some people here prefer it. They don't actually like good gameplay.

>>3835652
>pausing the game every 2 seconds to circumvent the shit tier pathfinding is le immersive

I liked 3 overall. I couldn't get into 1 and 2, a result of my age as well as the games. Also I hate RTwP.

>>3835597
You're right, yet those monkeys don't care. You could put the finest of wine and cheese and meat and they would complain, but if you put the sloppiest of slop in front of them and they would chomp it up.

>>3835652
>SCS just tweaks the AI
This is objectively incorrect. Look at the readme and get back to me.
>>3835675
Skill issue.

>>3835723
>Look at the readme and get back to me.
good thing EVERYTHING is optional and can omit components you dont like

>>3835626
Cool it with the anti-Semitic remarks

>>3835749
First of all, the standard SCS install (which is what everyone means by SCS unless otherwise stated) changes a shitton. Second, even the AI components tweak more than just scripts, mate. If you actually read the readme you would know this.

BG 1/2 are good despite being RTWP, not because of it
BG3 is bad despite being turn based, not because of it

>>3835757
/thread

>>3835575
So you played through 2 entire games (one being very long) you hated? As someone who rarely finishes games he likes I can't understand this.

>>3835754
First of all, nobody really plays the original BG1 anymore only the Enhanced Edition, which differs quite a bit. BG1 was more of a proof of concept, and BioWare kept refining the engine and gameplay. By the time BG2 and Throne of Bhaal came out a lot had changed. There’s also the unofficial Ascension mod, created by BG’s design director David Gaider himself, which overhauled ToB’s final chapter, reworked encounters and made the rushed expansion feel much more satisfying, sadly most people who played the original unmodded game never experienced it. Thing is nobody wants the tedium of 20 arrow stacks, horrible loot picking and pixel-hunting every location just because the original BG1 lacked a simple function like highlight button, those were exactly the kind of improvements added in later releases. I treat SCS the same way, its a 20 years tried and tested mod by passionate people which improves the gameplay and makes BG1/2 more fun in every aspect.

>>3835777
> First of all, nobody really plays the original BG1 anymore only the Enhanced Edition
Stopped reading here. Waste of trips.

>>3835779
I’m glad you revealed your crippling autism and mentally retardation so i dont have to waste my time anymore.

>>3835777
>moving the goal posts
>changing the topic
>throwing out the bait
Pretty poor discussion tactics you have there. You would have been better off taking the L and admitting SCS changes more than "just the AI". It is an important distinction to make, so I corrected you and now you're throwing a little bitch fit. Enjoy all the changes and modifications you like, but don't act like you're somehow not changing the game when you are.
>First of all, nobody really plays the original BG1 anymore only the Enhanced Edition.
>Thing is nobody wants the tedium of 20 arrow stacks, horrible loot picking and pixel-hunting every location
This exists only in your head. I reckon it's because you've fried your brain on drugs or social media, but I could be wrong. Maybe you were just born retarded. Regardless, what a waste of trips.

>>3835786
i thought u said u didnt read it, hope you play 640x480 on CRT unpatched version on windows 95 and CRT and pentium 200mhz otherwise its not valid faggot. Thats last time im giving u attention you are clearly mentally unwell and will kill yourself sooner than later.

>>3835789
>being this mentally ill
Take your meds.

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>>3835598
I'm not sure I'm really understanding what you're trying to say. Are you trying to claim that companions with fleshed out stories comprised of personality development that takes place if you interact with them and help them with their personal quests... are you... you're saying that's... BAD?!

>>3835804
>Are you trying to claim that companions with fleshed out stories comprised of personality development that takes place if you interact with them and help them with their personal quests... are you... you're saying that's... BAD?!
It was novel and interesting at the time, but the crux is that it hinges upon having interesting characters and talented writers. Look what’s happened to the cRPG genre over the past few decades. With the benefit of hindsight, it was clearly a mistake. Now they’ve turned into dating sims with ugly and deeply unlikeable characters, written by irony-poisoned millennials who use fantasy worlds as a soapbox from which to project their modern politics. The dominance of the BG2 formula has been a monkeys paw, at best, even if BG2 itself will always have a fond place in my heart.

Nu-cRPGs are literally more fun if you return to monke and use custom parties of mute generics and completely reject all companions (if you’re even allowed to lmao), in my subjective opinion.

>>3835811
The specific games you're whining about have been universally lauded as among the greatest works of art our species has ever created.
Just... keep that in mind.

>>3835811
>Nu-cRPGs are literally more fun if you return to monke and use custom parties of mute generics and completely reject all companions (if you’re even allowed to lmao), in my subjective opinion.
I can't play it otherwise. Poe 1 and 2 are still shit, despite looking fantastic. Will soon play nwn in bg2 with ripped poe 1 and 2 assets. Actually people should use the assets to create something interesting. Bg3 as dungeon crawler is fun.

>>3835777
Are you actually Gayder? His mod is nice, but doesn't do much other than changing the boss fights and likely bugging out the final fight because it's so script heavy. (When the script fails the monk cannot be killed.) It's not an overhaul at all, so you must be him to praise it so much.

>>3835522
Original.
>>3835531
That is true, and that is why Black Isle's Icewind Dale is much better.
Even so, BG1 & 2 is still infinitely less repugnant in a plethora of ways, than BG 3.

>>3835543
Do you have autism? Do you panic when something unforseen warranting you to react quickly in real life?
Get real dude

>>3835815
>The specific games you're whining about have been universally lauded as among the greatest works of art our species has ever created.

Which says more about how low the bar has fallen. If the companions of BG3, Pathfinder WotR and shit is the "pinnacle", we're doomed.

>>3835777
The best way to play BG1 is in BGT, using the BG2 Improved UI mod to get all the EE QoL without dealing with Beamdog shit.

>>3835815
This little guy was born past 9/11

>>3835890
This

>>3835522
bg2 is the best game imo because it starts you out at iirc level 7, and so for instance a fighter isn't just a simple kit swing sword and miss, you actually have a few more options, more buttans to press like on a wizard. bg3 is fun but i got to the 3rd act and was 1 level away from max level, and had really good gear, so i lost interest and never beat it. i like how rpgs are moving to turn based now altho i always like rtwp back in the day.

>>3835890
Does it really set a 3 mil xp cap in SoA?

>>3835804
>Are you trying to claim that companions with fleshed out stories comprised of personality development that takes place if you interact with them and help them with their personal quests... are you... you're saying that's... BAD?!
There's a percentage of retards on this board that blame BG2 for all their modern CRPG woes. For some reason it's not the fault of the devs of the other games, it's BG2's fault because they expanded companion interactions and "it started there". Even though companions and companion interaction has been present in RPGs since the beginning, it's still BG2's fault. Even though modern businesses leverage the graphics and romance/companion interaction to hook casuals, it's still BG2's fault because it "gave them the idea".

>>3835522
the originals have a special place in my heart
they got me into crpgs after watching this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjWWuUDtSaE
I was already pretty attracted to dnd but I never played it irl. so having heard bg1 and 2 were like dnd with a cpu dungeonmaster was enough for me to try it out, not expecting much since the graphics were so dated (I began with the enhanced editions)
ended up loving it and being an absolute crpg fan ever since

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>>3835890
there are is a mod which removes beamdog addition with multiple options to suit your needs, most mods got ported and are updated only for EE version and i could not imagine playing bg1/2 without EEex + spell menu UI.

>>3835522
the original.
>>3835525
noob down.

>EET
>SCS
>ToF
>Infinity UI++
>Spell Revision
>Tweaks Anthology
>Imoen Romance Mod
yep, it's gaming time.

>>3835918
>Spell Revision
What does this mod do?
>FANFIC ROMANCE
Please...

>>3835918
>Spell Revision
no thanks, also you forgot https://www.gibberlings3.net/mods/quests/ascension/

>>3835920
it rebalances the spells. some like it, some don't. i do tho.
>>3835923
>Asencsion
true that. i probably forgot some other mods.

I also use custom modified Morpheus powergaming script. Usually by the time i got to ToB prebuffing was killing me but now i press one hotkey and all long lasting buffs i always prebuffed every rest are auto cast for me while i manually cast all specific and short buffs myself when needed. It strikes balance and made late SoA and ToB fun to play again.

>>3835525
Spbp and /thread

>>3835928
I see. Idk, can't say anything about it. Certainly the bg2 spells need balance, at least some. Iirc some are bugged, too. I liked the spells in iwd:ee.

>>3835811
Obviously true post that only brokebrained sun deprived coomers will refute

>>3835941
if you liked how they worked in iwd, then chances are high that you will like the mod. that's where the inspiration was drawn from and some spells were literally backported.

>>3835933
yeah, automating the prebuffing is a must as you progress.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/84149/2-6-bg2-radar-overlay-released
this mod is also very useful.

>>3835901
That's what Tweaks Anthology is for.

for everyone who played SCS to death and want to experience another challenging but different mod theres tactics remix https://www.morpheus-mart.com/tactics-remix

I think BG1/2 will always be special to me, but honestly the game doesn't really do much in the role play side of things, there's just things that are there to take and you can sometimes decide between the nice way and the mean way. You can't even decide to turn down quests. It's less a DnD sim and more a DnD combat sim. BG2 goes harder on a narrative focus instead of just wandering around the woods like the first one, but that never really changes (there's just more dialogue). If anything I think it kind of detracts from its charm and is only balanced out by Irenicus having a great voice and therefor being a great villain
BG3 actually attempting to handle the out of combat side of things in a way many other RPGs avoid goes a long way for me. I also prefer turn based and less of that diablo goblin hoard shit, but really that's a secondary concern. The only thing that really tarnished BG3 a little to me is some choices they made in its direction, but I don't think judging a game by comparing it to one that never existed is particularly fair.

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Thoughts on this change to Aerie hair?

>>3835890
>The best way to play BG1 is in BGT
I’ve been saying this for decades, but I no longer believe it to be true. The next time I feel like playing BG1, it will be in the BG1 engine.

>>3835967
The biggest reason I like Tutu is just for being able to import certain classes if I want to do a replay that spans both games. Otherwise I don't think it's really necessary.

>>3835969
Yeah, if needed I will just use Shadowkeeper and edit my save accordingly.

>>3835967
based

>>3835966
looks worse and makes no sense. she's a hippie winged elf raised at a circus.

>>3835954
have you tried it? it's kind of hard to quickly grasp what are the main differences between this and scs.

>>3835966
Would Aerie both with original and nude hair

I grew up on 1 and 2 but I still prefer 3. The turn based combat is just far superior to RTwP. Also I feel that Larian understands D&D and what it's mean to be about much more than Bioware ever did. The ability to throw things, use environmental damage, stealth mechanics etc. It's the type of things you used to only see in PnP campaigns.

>>3835951
Holy shit, anon. What a fucken nightmare. That is exactly what I hate about those stupid mods. They jam literally a bajillion changes into these things that are all so different and then you have to pick and choose because you do not want all of then. Sure, some of them might be alright, but fuck if I'm gonna take the time to study that gigantic readme. God forbid I have to reinstall, and after how many years my old saves aren't gonna work anymore. What a headache. The original game works great as is. I will tolerate a mod like Unfinished Business because it is focused and it stays in its fucken lane. That anthology shitshow is insane.

Is the SCS mod that much of an improvement over vanilla BG1 and BG2? I played these games a long time ago but I want to do another playthrough. I don't want to change it too much, maybe just improve the AI.

>>3836063
I only finished SCS for BG1 and didn’t enjoy it. SCS for BG2 leans heavily toward “wizard chess” and puzzle gameplay and there is frequently only one correct specific sequence of spells/tactics needed to beat a fight. Some people really enjoy that and it tickles their tism, I don’t care for it personally. And the newer versions of SCS require the “EE”s which is a deal breaker for me

>>3836063
>that much of an improvement over vanilla BG1 and BG2?
No, not really. I don't think it's worth the hassle or the changes. First of all SCS is a huge mod. There's a ton of changes. The AI really isn't so bad in the originals. There certainly is room for improvement, but there currently exists no AI mod that just improves the scripts and nothing else. SCS changes enemies, like what spells/abilities they can use and also adds items in some cases. If you're just coming back from a long break, then you probably won't notice any issue with AI much.

Playing bg2 for the first time.
Why does the game dump multiple time sensitive quests at the same time in chapter 2?
Is this supposed to deter rest-scumming, because having my party constantly nag is obnoxious.

>>3836091
A lot of them only seem to be time sensitive when they actually aren't. iirc it's mostly only for companion specific stuff if you want them in your party outside a handful of them

>>3836091
You mean the companion quests? You didn't actually think people are gonna join your party and risk their neck for literally nothing did you?

>>3835888
Don’t you know Nenio is peak writing

>not playing 20+ years ago
you newfags will never get BG1 and BG2
>muh real time combat hard and BAD
checks out

>>3836091
only companion quests are time sensitive and they will tell you if you wait too long, rest you can take as long as you want even if the wording implies you should hurry.

>>3836063
It’s a mod best suited for subsequent playthroughs. If it’s your first time stick to vanilla and maybe bump the difficulty to Core or higher if you know how D&D works (you can change it at any point in the game).

>>3835522
BG2 remains my favorite, but I did enjoy BG3 a lot more than I initially expected.

>>3836213
BG3 fans aren't BG fans, they're Divinity fans.

>>3836287
And that's just one reason why BG3 is so shitty.

>>3836287
I don't care for Divinity and never played the sequel. I played a shit ton of BG1 and 2. I like BG3

>>3835597
none of that makes the game any better tho

>>3835966
might listen to her whine a bit if she looked like that.

>>3836683
Yes it does, though. If you don't like playing older games, I have terrible news for you: the most recent game you can play was made with outdated technology. Because it takes five years to make one.
So, really, your personal cutoff for when games stop being good is absolutely arbitrary and baseless.
And therefore, no one has to respect your opinion on the matter.

>>3836907
No one has said anything even close to that. What the fuck are you making up schizo?

>>3835522
This is like asking: Do you enjoy loving, satisfying sex with your wife or do you want to get fucked in the ass by some aids ridden freak. You know which option Reddit will prefer.

>>3835522

Honestly i can´t say. Back when i was young i preferred JRPGs over WRPGs. I can play games like CT or Valkyrie profile without feeling they are dated in the slightest but i feel i´m overly critical or biased towards old WRPGs (anything before Dragon Age Origins)

Also i did like BG3 but i think i probably like the DoS and Pathfinder games more. But yeah, BG3 was pretty good.

>>3836683
Sure it does. Could have fooled me. If you didn't like the IE games, then you just don't have any taste, champ. You probably grew up on slop and that's all you like now. It's unfortunate, but ya see it all the time.

>>3835966
>>3836899
>gets LeTired mid fight

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>>3835525
factual

>>3837030
>thrash mobs
stopped reading, faggot

>>3837034
>RTWPchimps are the boomer equivalent of ipad kids
keep reading bitch it'll make you smarter

>>3837035
>dat greentext
yeah, that really gives confidence you have a brain and there was some "thought" instead of stupid buzzword copes

Last time i argued with anti-RTWP poster he exposed himself he didnt even know you can give orders during pause. Since then i ignore those posts cause its guaranteed its larian DOS3 fanoboy who never played or cared about original BG games.

>>3835522
Bg1 and 2 are masterpieces, bg3 is pure shit, gamers are mentally ill to like that piece of crap

I'm sorry but bg1 and 2 have more in common with the hero unit missions of red alert and age of empires than anything resembling a role-playing game, tabletop or video

>>3837058
>a retard shares his opinion

>>3835522
the original games were better imo.

BG3 peaks in act 2 and feels like its running on fumes when you finally get to the city. BG1 opens up even more so when you get to the titular city.

the vibe of BG3 is silly. its like its afraid to take itself seriously and really get stuck into the setting. its wears thin. you can't be epic and silly at the same time. whereas BG1 wears its heart on it sleeve from day 1. grandiose speeches and thrilling showdowns from the get go. sure theres some comic relief but its better to have comic relief than constant comedy

the setting of BG3 feels very generic until you get to the city. BG1 is very much set in the sword coast, famous locations and factions. BG3 could be anywhere.

alignment/classes/stats/itemization all feel meaningless in BG3. you can change to anything you like at any time and most "builds" simply revolve around cheesing some mechanic.


its still a good game but i don't think it holds up to the rest of the series. its the fallout 3/4 of baldurs gate games

>>3837061
Did I hit a nerve gay jew nigger?

>>3837030
Lmao.
>turn-based enjoyers are fragile, slop drones
>turn-based haters are goblin jews
RTwP enjoyers must be charismatic, white colonizers. How many generations of turn-baseders would it take to colonize the new worlds?
>>3837045
Indeed. Last time I spoke with one thry eventually admitted that it's just too difficult to manage everything all at once. In every single RTwP & TB thread I've seen, the consensus is that TB is a good way to make a game easier and everyone who hates RTwP lacks skill and understanding.
>>3837058
>bg1 and 2 have more in common with legendary games than modern, AAA slop
Really makes you think.

>>3837081
>alignment/classes/stats/itemization all feel meaningless in BG3. you can change to anything you like at any time and most "builds" simply revolve around cheesing some mechanic.
That's because it's D&D 5e. Those specific features are very commonly cited as crippling design failures. They are not the only problems, but they are definitely well understood and recognized ones.

BG3's writing all over is just awful childrens' cartoon level. It is not an epic fantasy piece with gravitas. It has nothing significant to say about the human condition. It's a softcore porn dating sim with a tedious combat system you can sidestep by throwing barrels.

>>3835845
AFAIK it got rewritten by guy who made SCS for EE, didnt have an issue with Balthazar but theres persistent bug since vanilla with dragon transformation and Amelyssan teleporting on top of you and you getting stuck inside their character model so active console command and CTRL+J to teleport out is a must, Ascension + SCS is also hard as balls definitely not recommended for 1st time players, i did it as my 2nd ToB playthrough, absorbed decent amount of meta knowledge through YT and wiki and still wanted to drop it after 5th failed attempt at ascesion fight. It’s such a brutal, drawn-out slog, even Abazigal can take 1h with those mods as demonstrated in this guy vid.
https://youtu.be/wu4jBLU5U0E?list=PL9VJninnnZ-on-cwFys-W4gIi1gaWYlwX&t=10522

>>3835525
Probably the most important gaming innovation within the rpg genre

>>3835525
yes
and so is larian

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>>3835723
>well ackshually
No need to be so nitpicky

>>3835522
I enjoyed the OG trilogy. A little clunky by modern standards but retains soul and a lot of good design.
Wouldn't waste my time playing BG3 even if it was free. Zoomer RPG fans have the worst taste imaginable.

>>3835594
>Also ToB was an expansion of BG2, so there was no "trilogy",
Technically true, unfortunately you're a massive faggot. Throne of Bhaal plays much more like an abbreviated sequel than an expansion. It's perfectly reasonable to treat to BG1, SOA and TOB as a trilogy. Durlag's Tower and Watcher's Keep are expansion content.

>>3835675
>reductionist shitpost
as always
smart people would have better arguments.

>>3837058
>anything resembling a role-playing game
A true RPG is a tactics and strategy game played from the perspective of the units rather than the army commander and is comprised of PvE-style adventures rather than PvP-style warfare.

No one with even a little knowledge of gaming history should every be surprised to see a tactical or strategy game sharing remarkable similarities with RPGs. People who don't realize this have been brainwashed by cinematic videogames and the feminized method-acting fruitcakes who have invaded the genre.

>>3837112
>Being brown
>Being colonized
Average nucodexer

>>3838092
>Still parroting zoomers give a shit about larian
What causes this mental retardation? You see more gen z shilling owlcat shit than anything from larian.

>>3838103
In the real world it's zoomers playing BG3. Your dumbass board drama perspective warped is warped by owlcat shills and not relevant.

>>3835522
I prefer Icewind Dale, BG as a whole has a really terrible habit of just grabbing you by the wrist and dragging you off in a random direction when you're already doing something.

>>3838103
>Being brown
>Being colonized
Is that who and what you are? The seethe always points to the truth.

>>3838114
>BG as a whole has a really terrible habit of just grabbing you by the wrist and dragging you off in a random direction when you're already doing something.
Sounds like real life.

I liked the new stuff in BG3 but every returning character, lore or thing was a fucking terrible downgrade.

>>3838137
>every returning character, lore or thing was a fucking terrible downgrade.
Accurate. They even endorsed the cringe "Abdel Adrian" shit.

>>3838137
I think Jaheira was a notable exception to that, but otherwise agree

>>3838137
every character in BG3 is garbage, returning or otherwise

>>3835522
bg1&2 are the greatest games ever made. currently doing an scs no reload run

>>3838251
They used to be the best games ever made. They are still mandatory for anyone to understand the history of video games as a medium and their impact on culture. But there is now finally a better game.

And it isn't BG3.

>>3838261
PATHFINDER BABEE

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>>3838261
>But there is now finally a better game.

>>3838293
It's like they intentionally made that game as ugly as they possibly could.

>>3838305
>they

>>3838273
I am fully prepared to declare that Wrath Of The Righteous is a better game and story than BG1&2... And believe me, I have loved BG2 for all that time in between.

>>3838421
No one cares about your gay opinion. Pathfinder sucks

>>3838421
I think Wrath of the Righteous is really held back by its poor encounter design. The basic mechanics are arguably better than those in BG2, but the enemies are really boring and have such incredibly simplistic AI that you won't even see enemy rogues attempting to prioritize sneak attack.

>>3835522
Real-time RPG with pause is one of the worst combat systems ever made, probably worse than ATB

>>3838456
I'm ok with agreeing that the game is incredibly grindy and some bosses are **WAY** overtuned. Also they didn't understand that SR is calculated from HD of the creature, and without mods all enemy buffs are cast at caster level 20 at minimum (some have a caster level of 40...?!) which means they cannot be dispelled at all, which makes those encounters even more ridiculous. So lots of issues about encounters being either mechanically illegal (Staunton, for example) or obnoxiously tedious (fucking Drezen...).

Wrath is such a wacky ultra-hyper-super-batshit insane power scale, though, that the rocket tag begins at level 6, and no encounters will last longer than two rounds past level 10. Which means enemies don't really have the opportunity to use AI anyway.

I think the reason they didn't spend much time on enemy AI is that it would require an abstract way of classifying all the thousands of feats and spells and abilities so that an algorithm could know where to aim them or when to use them. And that's.... just not a task they had the manpower for. Pathfinder is fundamentally not meant for computers to run. It's a tabletop game designed for munchkin wargame nerds.

Enemy rogues will sneak attack targets if their target is valid for sneak attack since that's automatic. But what they don't do is "hmmm that mage has an AC of 13 so he's easily hit so me and my crew are gonna prioritize that character". Which would be unrealistic for starters, but also it would defeat the purpose of classes. Because then the mage becomes the tank. Or, in other words, BAB and AC just becomes completely meaningless on everyone except for the weakest and strongest targets in the encounter.

>>3838531
It was done that way in those games because the target demographics of that era of gaming were still deep in the throes of MMOs (EQ1 and WoW), MOBAs (DotA and later League) and RTS games (Warcraft / Starcraft and Warhammer) as genres. So they demanded "more action-based" gameplay. By which the players in those days *specifically* meant "not turn-based".

You might not like it now in retrospect, but those games were made like that because of the demands of their target audience.

>>3838538
>a 1998 game used RTWP because of games which would come out in 1999 (EQ), 2003 (DotA), 2004 (WoW), and 2009 (League)
*tousles your broccoli hair affectionately*

>>3838538
>>3838572
Hilarious that he didn't mention the one game that was actually the inspiration for rtwp: Diablo.

>>3838578
Diablo would’ve been a good illustration of that claim since it started development as a turn based game and was adapted into real time at some point in development, likely to chase the RTS trend of the day.
Iirc the infinity engine wasn’t originally developed for Baldurs gate, it was developed for an unreleased RTS, and then shoehorned into an RPG engine.

>>3835522
I prefer Baldur's Gate 3 over them.
I played them long time ago and i liked them, played them again 8 years ago and i found them to be just ok, my tastes have developed a lot in the last 10 years, i used to like games for their story, now after i played a lot of different games and i read books and watched a lot of films and anime i started liking games for their game design much more. Even a game like Dragon Age and The Witcher which i used to love a lot i find it hard to replay them today, i just find their writing quality much inferior to what i can get somewhere else, and i always find myself replaying games with good and fun game design, when i want to play games i want to enjoy playing them.
Baldur's Gate 3 is one of the best simulation for DND ever made, it has strong game design, the gameplay is very dense, so much interactivity and options for problem solving and the level design is absolutely top notch, the world is designed in interconnected levels and the map is dense with verticality and content, the encounter design is sublime and the production values are something i always wanted from a CRPG, all these years and finally one has been made that doesnt shit the bed or simplify its mechanics like Bethesda and bioware did, it stays true to the roots of the genre.

Baldur's Gate 2 is still a solid game to play, but 1 and the Throne of Bhaal aged so poorly, 1 is outdated in most ways because 2 improved on it and icewind dale is improved as well, and throne of bhaal is one of the most overrated expansions ever.

>>3838144
They should have done an anagram of Charname.

>>3838456
The writing, and every original mechanic introduced that isn't just some adapted pathfinder rule being jank also holds it back a bit. It's value is being a bloated as fuck game you can play forever if you like dnd a lot.

>>3838611
It kinda sounds like you really like Larian's engine, which I believe is called Divinity 4.0. I played DOS2 and I do like the engine, but I don't really like what they did with it. They had an incredible opportunity to craft a truly bespoke CRPG experience, but they cut way too many corners. When I say that I mean they chose to solve the "problem" of itemization with RNG instead of man-made, hand-placed. They also drank too much of the "everything can be picked up and put in your pack, lmao" juice. The Divinity 4.0 engine is like a brand new Lamborghini with all the bells and whistles compared to the Infinity Engine's old ass station wagon. Yet, look what Bioware/Black Isle Studios did with it? Truly an incredible and beautiful experience on that 2D engine. For all the resources and strength Larian had pushing BG3 out, I'm more than disappointed in the result. Sure, their engine is great, but their game devolves into degeneracy way too quickly and it lacks the seriousness that was, quite frankly, taken for granted in the Baldur's Gate series. It's a perfect example of the difference between the talented & the skilled and the talentless & the unskilled. You give someone with skill and talent a piece of shit and they can turn it into a masterpiece. You give a hack state of the art tech, equipment and financing and they'll squander it.

>>3838671
Perhaps even calling it a station wagon is too much. Maybe a go kart would be more accurate.

>>3838656
That would’ve been clever. Well beyond Larians writers, unfortunately.

>>3838293
that game looks like complete dogshit, you must be trolling

>>3838421
BG2 is 25 years old and still hasn't been surpassed imo by any of the nu-crpgs like Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder games etc. I found the Pathfinder games you get burned out mid-playthrough. It's been a while since I played them but I remember them being quite grindy and tedious. Like the kingdom management shit for example in the 1st game. Anyways, it's quite sad BG2 is still the king all these years later.

>>3838699
>it's quite sad BG2 is still the king all these years later.
Indeed.

>>3835811
>Nu-cRPGs are literally more fun if you return to monke and use custom parties of mute generics and completely reject all companions
I find myself agreeing with you, but I still get annoyed when these nu-cRPGs push obviously tropey, token or soapbox characters on me that I have to then dismiss from the party.

It usually signals of more to come, that the developers expect this to trend with me, that they think it appeals to me. It signals I'm not their customer, and yet they likely took my money after fooling me into thinking I should be.

>but why not pirate
At some point this becomes such a widespread issue with new content that almost nothing is even worth playing to begin with after 2015.

>>3838741
>I still get annoyed when these nu-cRPGs push obviously tropey, token or soapbox characters on me that I have to then dismiss from the party.
Yes. In BG3 in particular you can tell that the devs were salty about players not wanting to use their “origin characters”. They hobbled the functionality from DOS2 of directly recruiting custom generics in-game, replacing them with pre-canned combinations of race and class, and too bad if you don’t want them. DOS2 and BG3 still have a workaround to create a custom party in a multiplayer game and then loading that game as a single player save (same as BG1/2, though Larians is clunkier since it requires launching four instances of the game client) but I wouldn’t be surprised if they remove that feature from their next game.

There were several other areas of BG3 I was disappointed that they removed/worsened functionality from DOS2 despite that being their previous game on the same engine. The inventory system in bg3 is fucking awful (at least it was at launch) and dumps everything in a big pile instead of sorting by tabs of item type, and they made the in-world tooltips of items super dumbed down, now it only shows the items name and nothing else.

>>3838780
>The inventory system in bg3 is fucking awful
I would bet good money there was at least one autist at Larian that knew the inventory was a mess and it bothered him greatly, so he kept squawking to the higher ups about it, but they just ignored him and told him to go work on coding the tranny shit instead. I would absofuckinlutely love to meet him and shake his hand.

>>3838798
They added a text field for searching your inventory by name, which was a cool idea, but at launch it, too, was broken and didn't work half the time. Not sure if they ended up fixing it, I haven't played it much since launch.

>>3837027
hey hot bitches get to be tired

>>3835525
Have fun slowing the game to a crawl for trivial turn-based encounters. Turn-based is only good if you can do an auto-resolve ala Total War games for non-narrative nonsense fights you easily outclass.

RTwP allows you to fluidly move through random encounters without much friction, pausing at leisure for harder fights, though the real solution would be to merge the two: Real-Time with Turn-Based Toggle.

>>3838831
Trash fights shouldn't be in the game. If it's not worth fighting in turn-based mode, it's not worth fighting.

>>3838833
I don't really disagree with that but that's not really the case in turn-based games in practice.

>>3838831
>>3838833
Ya. It's the only thing holding Wrath back, really. But in full fairness, the ultra power fantasy is part of what people wanted from Wrath so they couldn't make it a true RPG, really.

>>3835522
Easily. The original trilogy is a true classic, BG3 is nu-fantasy for the Critical Role audience.

>>3838833
What exactly is your aversion to playing the game? If you don't like it, you just don't like it, mate.

>>3839062
>What exactly is your aversion to playing the game?
[citation needed]

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>>3835904
Whether you blame BG2 for it or not, as low-IQ trolls like >>3835531 do, you can't deny that BG2 did emphasize those design elements-- especially when compared to the original BG1. And you can't deny that the crpg revival of BG-inspired games (beginning with Pillars of Eternity) proceeded from the BG2 approach not the BG1 approach.

BG1 had a convergent design where the game starts out very open-ended. The player is presented with some fairly obvious paths to advance the story if they want, but the narrative urgency is minimal and the player is free to explore the world as his own pace, discovering many optional events, side quests and dungeons. This phase is when the player is expected to encounter and recruit party members. Eventually the main story picks up urgency and narrows into Baldur's Gate for the late game.

The BG1 cast is thus spread throughout the world, and the player isn't expected to recruit or even discover many of them on a single playthrough. These characters are designed to be notable and memorable, but also to reinforce the storytelling and verisimilitude of the setting and game world. Although the BG1 characters have personality, motives and goals, the game is not primarily focused on exploring their storylines. Their subplots fit in as a small part of the overall adventure.

BG2 on the other hand, as a linear storyline with a few branches. Instead of an open-ended, free roam world, you have an urgent main narrative. The main narrative is quickly and awkwardly blocked and the player is given a flimsy excuse to pursue elaborate side quests. Each side quest is typically a substantial self-contained storyline and for the most part everything is driven by these quests and storylines. You rarely just discover a location and explore it, you follow a questline through a mostly-linear sequence of encounters and events.

>>3835606
>muh complex romance
part and parcel of the pretentiousness, uncluding the one characterizing coalywood.

>>3839082
>Trash fights shouldn't be in the game.

>>3839086
Quite the bait post you have there.
>posts pic with comparison between BG1 dungeon and BG2 dungeon
>BG1 dungeon is a copy pasted maze
>BG2 dungeon is a totally unique, hand-drawn set piece
What point are you actually trying to make here?
>Argues BG1 is open ended because the map is discoverable by travel while BG2 is linear because you have to talk to someone to get directions to world map locations
BG2 isn't nearly as linear as you make it out to be. The amount of freedom to do whatever you want, however you want in BG2 is immense compared to most games. I fail to see how Sarevok and his iron crisis is any less "linear" than Irenicus and his assault on the World Tree. They're literally both big bads on their way to world domination and you have to deal with both of them and their pet projects whether you like it or not. Each game has set pieces that are placed in such a way that you have to go through them in order to progress. Talking to someone to get directions to a world location and discovering it yourself are just two ways to go about it. One way isn't superior to the other. The real test of whether a world is open-ended and free roam is if you can actually go explore it in whatever way you like. The reality is modern devs aren't copying BG2 because it's "linear" and "urgent", that's a flawed premise to begin with. Modern devs are making linear games with heavy companion interaction because linear games are easier to make and companion romance is what casuals want, as in that's what sells.

>>3839163
>Quite the bait post you have there.
Only to a binary-brain retard who thinks I absolutely HAVE to be shitting on one or the other. You're not a binary-brain retard are you?

>>3839177
I think you're shitting on yourself, mate.

>>3839163
>I fail to see how Sarevok and his iron crisis is any less "linear" than Irenicus and his assault on the World Tree.
You fail to see a difference because you didn't even try to understand the point and aren't comparing relevant things at all.

BG1: After the short tutorial in Candlekeep you're kicked out with a hasty recommendation to meet up with friends of Gorion at an Inn. After the murder event, you're dumped on the road with no further instructions or quests or any kind of objective whatsoever. Your main objective is just to survive. You'll get the strange nightmare events periodically, as you sleep. You'll encounter the assassins targeting you. The "Iron Crisis" quest events are out there, waiting for you to find on your own. You can follow Gorion's recommendation to meet Khalid and Jaheira at the Friendly Arm Inn to go the standard route, or you can go off on your own. Wherever you go, you're likely to head about iron crisis, which as yet has no obvious link to your current problems or destiny.

If ANY modern crpg dev uses this approach, feel free to point it out explicitly.

This is ENORMOUSLY different from the design of BG2, which begins with Irenicus abducting you and putting you in a dungeon with Imoen. Chateau Irenicus is a substantial level that counts as a whole story chapter. After the escape, Irenicus and Imoen are taken to Spellhold, which is the obvious, unambiguous next main plot objective. You're "free" to explore Athkatla but as soon as you hit the slums will be guided to Gaelan Bayle to start Chapter 2 and formalize the current objective (do unrelated sidequests to raise money for the main quest).

May write more later, if your response to this isn't completely retarded.

>>3839196
Yeah, I think your rose colored glasses are blinding you to the similarities between the two. They're really not much different, to the point that if one is non-linear, then the other is not far behind and vice versa.

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>>3839086
what a disingenuous pic holy fuck, if you want to call it unseeing eye dungeon then include entire Old Tunnels, Ghoul Town, Passage to the Pit of the Faithless and Pit of the Faithless all of which are very detailed unique areas which mog annoying copy pasted firewine narrow corridors where your party pathfinding gets constantly stuck.

>>3839199
No, the other guy is right. Lots of people played BG1 pretending to be just some adventurer. It's not possible in the second one because its storytelling is very intrusive. Well, you can for a bit in act 2, which is probably everyone's favorite part of the game.

>>3839225
BG2 is massive and you free to do 70% of content before going to to underdark.

>>3839158
NTA but I was the one he was responding to originally. The context for that comment had to do with answering the critique that turn-based games tend to have unnecessary slowdowns for trivial combats that you know without a doubt you'll win.

His solution was that trash fights shouldn't be in the game, that is, in a proper turn-based game every combat encounter should be worth engaging with and exploring.

>>3839298
Accurate summary.
>t. that anon

>>3839233
It doesn't matter. The way you do it, the structure of the content itself is very different. There is a very obvious difference between the design of BG1 and BG2, and nobody copies BG1. That's the salient point. I didn't think pointing out this distinction was anything controversial at all (certainly not bait lol).

>>3839163
>Talking to someone to get directions to a world location and discovering it yourself are just two ways to go about it.
It makes a huge difference. And it's also incorrect to pretend as if this is only meaningful difference in content structure between BG1 and BG2. It's the difference between an exploration narrative and actual exploration via game mechanics. It is silly to suggest that talking to NPCs in Athkatla (or Trademeet) looking for quests is anything remotely like the raw exploration of the countryside outside Baldur's Gate in BG1.

>Modern devs are making etc...
I'm specifically talking about crpgs with an emphasis on the "crpg revival" that isn't even really "modern" now given that Pillars of Eternity is 10 years old. PoE and Pathfinder: Kingmaker openly drew direct inspiration from Infinity Engine era. None of them have the same BG1-style open world structure with a large cast of recruit-able characters. Their world design, quest structure and recruitable NPCs are much closer to BG2 than BG1.

>>3839222
>what a disingenuous pic holy fuck,
What's disingenuous about it?
I didn't say it was bad, just different.
Jesus Christ you faggots are thin-skinned and obnoxious.

Firewine Ruins is widely considered one of the most frustrating and unfun dungeons in BG1. It was a bad fit for the game engine, requiring awkward and tedious micromanagement of the party even before you account for AI pathfinding difficulties.

The contrast picture is a way to illustrate the massive shift in design approach between the two games. In BG1, you have a maze with minimal aesthetic variety, densely packed with samey combat encounters (and crazy respawn). In BG2, you have a linear sequence of 3 enemy encounters and a unique NPC area. Each section is spacious and has an encounter custom-crafted to the specific features of the environment.

I guess you just drunkly aimed your bleary eyes at the picture, saw that the left side had lots of words on it and the right side had no words, and assumed you must mean I thought the left side was "better."

>if you want to call it unseeing eye dungeon
It's just the filename, dipshit.

>Two anons arguing about dungeon density or something
I never played these games for the dungeon crawling but the gnoll fortress and clearing de'Arnise keep were both my favorite in each respective game but also the point of maximum tolerance for dungeon autism for me.

This isn't a stance against dungeon crawling, period, though, I liked it in Temple of Elemental Evil for instance, but I think the IE games are unsuited to it. Just play through any of them in Icewind Dale to see what I mean.

>>3835522
Original, RTwP being one reason. BG3 is a great game though, enjoying playing it multiple times.

>Reddit's gate

>>3835522
BG3 was good but it really shouldn't have been tied to the original games.

Next up: Dark Sun crpg by Owlcat or something.

>>3839158
This is such a stupid sentiment made up to justify turn based. I love slaughtering masses of creeps just as much as a smaller encounter vs some stronger dudes. AoE spells should serve a fucking purpose in these games! Why should an RPG not have quests like "go kill this goblin village" just because uhhhhhh it's a "trash" fight wahhh wahhh. There are ways to make such "trash" fights difficult and interesting too, like maybe your party got ambushed and surrounded or split up somehow. God forsake there being variety in an RPG.

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Why can't we have epic large scale fights between 2 armies? Oh right because we are being brainwashed to think it's just a "trash" fight and that we should suffer a shittier game system without these cool parts to justify it

>>3837030
Funny meme, too bad that the turn-based combat of BG3 doesn't ACTUALLY pause things, so if you start a fight with the druids and they start killing the tieflings, they slaughter them in real time while you fight the druid leader in turn-based combat, the stupidest compromise ever.

Startling to see people pretend like these games have deep tactics whether they're RTWP or turn-based. It's an RPG, the only tactic that matters is leveling up, you're literally too stupid to understand this and think you're tactical geniuses for getting to level 11 so you can unlock the Kill My Enemies For Me Thank You spell.

>>3839788
To get more out of a game if you buy into that illusion at least a little. Otherwise you're better off with basically any other medium. Personally, the only line I have is pre-buffing. That shit is cancer

>>3839762
>near incoherent schizoid ranting
If 'trash fights' were made difficult and interesting then by definition they wouldn't be trash fights.

I agree about the fun of the quick mindless AOEing of groups of low-powered mooks but they work way better in RTwP or real-time games than they do in turn-based.

Is it really that riveting if you have to slow everything to a stop for initiatives and turn orders and getting yourself positioned just because some random encounter spawned 5 goblins for the 20th time on the road?
Or in Rogue Trader when you have to stop your ship to fight off the same 8 tzeentch daemons, random encounters that are copies of each other that just spin up over and over identically?

>>3839788
I know you're trying to bait but you're not actually wrong. Its the same problem in TTRPGs. These games are ultimately just mathematical formulae and victory is guaranteed after you get over the initial difficulty hump of learning how the rules work. After that, the mystery is dispelled and the aspect of playing the game for different builds and the tactical combat stops being fun.

>>3837030
>wall of text
>motivated by butthurt
>not funny
>mostly strawman
Looks like RTwP haters took meme lessons from leftists.

>>3839833
>victory is guaranteed after you get over the initial difficulty hump of learning how the rules work
That goes for literally any PvE game.
>once you learn how to beat the computer, you win
Its alright, anons. We got fucken Sherlock Holmes on the case.

>>3839820
>pre-buffing
All things in moderation, bud. Take anything to the extreme and it will start to break.

>>3839865
It works for every PvP game too, I'm guessing you think that ambushing someone unsuspecting and then using all stun/control abilities to reduce a health score to 0 before the opponent can react or escape is somehow a novelty.

>>3839877
>It works for every PvP game too
If that were true, you wouldn't be trolling a slow ass forum about RPGs. You'd be raking in the dough from your cush e-sports career.

>>3839879
It works for traditional sports like football and basketball too, anon, every game 'field' whether PvP or PvE can eventually be solved. But people still show up to compete or watch, just look at chess tournaments.

At some point all you're watching for is whether or not this or that individual had some minimum reaction time, or were clever enough to realise the play that should've been made.

>>3839886
For want of a nail, the kingdom was lost

>>3839855
Listen chuddie, you are too low iq to keep talking here so stfu and stop trying to insert your retardation into completely different topics and just kys.

>>3839910
thanks for your input butthurt-billy.

>>3839886
100% theory. The premise of your argument hinges on a guarantee, but a theory, by its very nature, can't guarantee anything. Thank you for proving my point.

>>3839436
>dark sun
If only WotC wasn't afraid of the setting. I'm actually happy they decided not to bring it back for 5E since they would have to soften it for their modern audience. Dark Sun by Owlcat has the potential to be great, though.

>>3835525
This.
It's usually just a poor compromise between publisher demands and game studio vision, but in the worst case it's something that a game studio actively pursues because they haven't a got a clue what they actually want to do.

>>3840819
>the worst case it's something that a game studio actively pursues because they haven't a got a clue what they actually want to do.
No one does this.

>>3835522
BG1+2. BG3 is a terrible game.

>>3841249
BG2 holds up decently, but compared to more modern RPGs it's small and primitive, though polished enough to be fun. B1 did not age well.

>>3841347
>B1 did not age well.
It has pros and cons.
And unfortunately, people too often dwell on the parts that "did not age well" and incompetently fail to distinguish why, and what good aspects might have been lost in the BG2 improvements.

>>3841347
>>3841433
Growing up, I liked bg2 more just because there’s more stuff, more kits and classes and HLAs and powerful items and higher power curve in general.
One of the few opinions I’ve changed in response to debates on /vrpg/ is that I now prefer bg1 over bg2 due to its simplicity and its focus on a low level party adventuring through open wilderness, as opposed to the on-rails spectacle and tighter focus of bg2. Next time I play it will be in the bg1 engine and not ported into bg2.

>>3841433
>did not age well
Technically you did not age well. The old game, Baldur's Gate, never changed. You did. If you can no longer enjoy it, then I'd have to say that you changed for the worse.

>>3841452
This meme has never been funny.

>>3841456
Yeah. I agree. Games do not age.

>>3835522
I dropped both before the end of the first act out of sheer boredom. Forgotten Realms always had this effect on me.

Can you kill that drow bitch in Act one, then finish the quest and resurrect her and make her join you?

>>3842095
You can only resurrect characters after you recruit them, so no.

>>3841347
>compared to more modern RPGs it's small and primitive

fucking small how, it still dwarfs almost every modern RPG in terms of sheer content

>Dwarf (Duergar)
>Can cast enlarge as a cantrip
>Barbarian of the giant subclass
>Can rage, which enlarges them
>Elixer of collosus
>Same as casting enlarge
That's 3x enlargenings
That should put them from Medium size class into Gargantuan size class
That's bigger than a dragon in theory
The size of a nauteloid

>>3842095
>Can you kill that drow bitch in Act one, then finish the quest and resurrect her and make her join you?
Assuming you're talking about Minthara, no, you need to knock her out, not kill her. You can still finish the quest by knocking her out.

>>3842251
>triple enlarge
ur mum

>>3835522
I don't like any of them and prefer neverwinter nights

>>3842251
It doesn't stack.

>>3841347
It's still large and unlike BG3 it isn't 90% filler content and cut scenes.

>>3842628
It would in the IE.

>>3842629
BG3 is such a fucking embarrassment, honestly. And yes it is fucking BORING. Waiting through a thirty minute high school improv theater tier "social interaction" while a blue-purple-green hyper-cutesy demon girl sighs and giggles about absolutely fucking nothing interesting at all before she FUCKING BEGINS SINGING AT ME.... Not, like, singing like a professional with skill or accompaniment. Not singing in any way that is relevant to what's going on in the story or the context of the environment. Just like... hey nonny nonny Renfaire three chords on a lute plodding anus-puckering cringe.

I am not interested in watching Etsy influencers, Tumblr rejects and Renfaire hawks play improv theater. Especially not when there apparently is no woman in the entire game who isn't shrieking through your screen about how they're such a big muscle dommy mommy lesbian. It's so monotonous. Seriously, guys. Larian. Dude. Larian. Is there no one in that studio who has any kind of imagination? That's the ONLY example of a woman you can come up with? Hundreds of times in a row?

We get Halsin, Astarion, Gale and Wyll, and they're all different kinds of men. But you can't come up with a woman who isn't a six foot tall roided up butch bitch? You showed that you understood there's lots of ways to be heroic as a man, but you can't imagine how to present a woman otherwise?

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>>3843089
>But you can't come up with a woman who isn't a six foot tall roided up butch bitch?
Fun fact:
BG1 has 25 characters, with a mean strength of 13.35 and a population standard deviation of 3.25. There are 10 outliers with high strength (8 male, 2 female) and 9 outliers with low strength (3 male, 6 female).
BG2 has 16 characters, with a mean strength of 14.33, and a population standard deviation of 3.56. There are 7 outliers with high strength (7 male, 0 female) and 5 outliers with low strength (2 male, 3 female).
BG3 has 10 characters, with a mean strength of 12.00, and a population standard deviation of 3.63. There are 3 outliers with high strength (0 male, 3 female) and 3 outliers with low strength (3 male, 0 female).

>>3842228
BG2?! Uhhhhh no? Sheer content? Have you played it? You can complete the game in less than 30 hours just casually wandering around. I should know, I've literally played all the way through from Chateau Irenicus to the end of ToB like fifteen times so far since the game came out. And that's not counting the various just fucking around plays while tinkering with Near Infinity.
BG2 is itsy bitsy compared to Kingmaker or Deadfire.

>>3843092
.... Ok, thanks I guess I rest my case...?

>>3835522
Gameplay wise, BG3, easily.
In most other regards except generalized "graphics", the originals. Tone especially is something I didn't really jive with for BG3. It just feels really awkward about where it lies in on the power and importance scales for some reason.

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>>3835522
Gameplay: I'm leaning BG3. I've grown to prefer TB. And encounter design is really good.
Writing: BG2:SoA is the best (just competent fantasy pulp). BG3 might have the worst main plot I've ever seen.
...
I don't want to go on a rant, but I truly LOATHE the writing in BG3. Well, large parts of it. Some of the side stuff is okay.

>>3835522
D&D was never good so it doesn't matter

>>3835522
BG3 is the only good one

>>3843161
>the game I've played 15 times is really short
Get real, mate. First playthrough would take a pretty damn long time if you went everywhere, talked to everyone and did everything. There is a ton of content in BG2. I have a hard time believing any of those games you mentioned have as much, especially more, content as BG2.

>>3843162
I assume he was using your post as an excuse to share the data, not trying to contradict anything.

>>3844355
Yeah, BG2 is a pretty huge game. I could see Kingmaker taking about as much time if you do everything. No way Deadfire is as big, though.

>>3835789
Win 98. And you forgot the CD swapping. Dare I say, exposed.

>>3843166
>>3844269
Samefagging and thinking that 5e gameplay is good? Really?

>>3844701
TB is superior.
I think 5ed is *fine*.
All changes Larian did were for the worse.
And I mostly mean encounter design anyway.

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>>3844853
>I think 5ed is *fine*.

>>3835522
I always hated tabletop fags making video games. They suck dick. They are just the absolute worst kind of game. Go paint your figures and get the fuck out of our hobby.

>>3844934
You are wrong and a faggot as well.

>>3844701
It's DnD, so it will never be good, but just as a recovering meth addict, 5e is certainly making an effort to be much better than its predecessors with pulling back hard on the ivory tower design, useless feats/abilities etc.
BG3 in particular has great map design to make positioning actually matter and enforce some tactical thinking, most importantly, it, for once brings in utility spells and skills and environmental puzzles to use them.
Granted, past level 5-7 you are given enough tools that even the most basic bitch builds can nosweat any encounter, you can long rest (and judging by amount of camp dialogues are expected even) pretty much after each fight which actively works against the entire point of the system, which is resource management (do I upcast this spell to get higher chance I kill the enemy this turn, or do I risk him getting a chance against and having to spend more healing resources down the line?), and Larian broke any semblance of balance the system had for no good reason, but I'll take it over BG1/2's kiting and fighters having no utility past autoattack any day.

BG3 would've been better if it was based around 4e instead, a real tactical ttrpg instead of the half-assed mess 5e was.

>>3845615
>5e is certainly making an effort to be much better than its predecessors with pulling back hard on the ivory tower design, useless feats/abilities etc.
Stopped reading here. 5e is certainly making an effort to be more "accessible" for its new fan base of the melanin-rich, faggots, and women, instead of its original fanbase of white male nerds. Everything about it has been consciously streamlined, simplified, and made as casual as possible for the mass market.

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>>3845706
>Stopped reading here.
Figures a DnD fanboy would be half illiterate.
>Everything about it has been consciously streamlined, simplified, and made as casual as possible for the mass market.
Yes, there's less bloat only to make you feel smart that you didn't pick it. Are you just mad that the only thing you have over them is knowing what RPGBOT is?
I'm not saying 5e is good (65% at lvl 1 and 50% at lvl 10 of times it doesn't matter if an ability check is made by a specialist or not for fuck's sake), but nothing of value was lost when it comes to mechanics.

>>3845615
>fighters having no utility past autoattack any day
An amateur tactician giving his elementary opinion. How adorable.

>>3835522
>bored
>launch bg2
>get reminded how awesome my first playthrough was couple years ago
>now too familiar with the game to enjoy it the same way
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened

>>3839428
BG 1&2 is totally different aesthetically and tone than BG3, like D&D 2e compared to 5e.
>>3844287
D&D is why you have rpgs at all.

>>3844934
Rpgs wouldn't exist without tabletop. Go back to your completely on rails jrpgs.

>>3845740
There were editions before 3e and 3.5e. In fact it's debatable if 3e and 3.5e is truly still D&D, despite being liked by most. And BG1&2 are 2e.

>>3845740
>reading 3E for the first time within a week of the first printing
This is just them trying to jam Magic the Gathering into D&D
>reeeeeeee

>Reading 4E for the first time within a week of the first printing
This is just them trying to jam World of Warcraft into D&D
>reeeeeeee

Here I am, vindicated by history in every way

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>>3835522
Didn't get far in the first two, I'll be honest, I didn't get the appeal. I got far into act of the third one and while i'll say I kind of enjoyed it, it just kind of dragged on for a while, level progression felt like crap, exploring didn't feel great (lots of jumping for some reason), your class didn't really impact the story (I went lock Wyll because I wanted to see how having a patron would change the way I planned around encounters, what sacrifices it would demand, nothing, I guess) I dropped that playthrough when I got my new PC and recently picked it back up again for an evil-ish durge playthrough, couldn't get past the first act, being evil's boring as fuck in this game and my problems with theming were exarcebated when I picked one of the shitty martial classes to focus on because it felt appropriate for the bloodthirsty knife maniac.

7/10, I Liked DOS2 a lot more.

>>3847979
Got far into act 3, FUCK.

>>3838679
Larian didn't make Abdel leldrian, whatever morons write Forgotten Realms slop novels and campaign setting did.

>>3849964
Larian chose to include that reference.

>>3835525
SPBP-SAMA...!!!

I... I...!!! I KNEEEEL!!!!

I only like BG1

>>3835522
Siege of Dragonspear was the best one

>>3850625
>Beamdog is a guilty of a number of different crimes.

Bg 1:
Tell unit to go somewhere , it gets stuck.
Bg3:
Tell unit to go somewhere , it goes there.
Simple choice.

I didn't like the Larianity of BG3. Character progression felt weak and itemization quite unexciting because they wanted the focus to be on le epic water+lightning and exploding barrel shenanigans instead. It's just not what I want from RPGs. Ironically DOS2 felt less Larian-y to me than BG3 because I remember the itemization there feeling more powerful. I enjoyed the characters and the attention to detail in BG3 but I won't be coming back to it the same way I do to BG1 and 2. The final string of fights in Act 3 in particular is ungodly ass.

>>3845628
It's just objectively true that 5e fucking sucks. As a tabletop and as a video game. It's a fucking awful game design in literally EVERY respect, in every detail no matter how minute. And everyone who has ever been involved in game design knows about this. It's literally an infamously terrible systems design.
If you go somewhere to apply to join a game dev studio... do not fucking mention or suggest anything positive about D&D or WotC. I can assure you that I immediately add applicants' information to a blacklist before I throw their shit into the trash. That blacklist? I share with other industry folks. You are not getting a job anywhere related to video games if I have anything to do with it.

BG1>BG2>BG3
I don't mindlessly hate 3 or whatever but I found the combat too easy and too dull both because of 5E and turn based combat only.
Also the UI, camera and controls fucking suck and the game as a whole feels more tedious to play than the originals.
I also hate the animation delay, but that plagues any modern RPG. It wasn't that noticeable with 2D lowres sprites but it's just weird to see some dude shuffle in place and swing his sword once every 10 seconds.
I also sort of disliked how many fantasy races get dropped on you in the first 5 seconds, I wish most of the characters in the beginning were humans, would've made the fantastical less mundane.
Tbh I didn't like BG2 that much either and I prefer IWD 1&2 over any BG game but still.

>>3852236
>It's just objectively true that 5e fucking sucks. As a tabletop and as a video game. It's a fucking awful game design in literally EVERY respect, in every detail no matter how minute. And everyone who has ever been involved in game design knows about this. It's literally an infamously terrible systems design.
>If you go somewhere to apply to join a game dev studio... do not fucking mention or suggest anything positive about D&D or WotC. I can assure you that I immediately add applicants' information to a blacklist before I throw their shit into the trash. That blacklist? I share with other industry folks. You are not getting a job anywhere related to video games if I have anything to do with it.
Kek the most mentally ill post I've seen in a while

>>3845740
>that game design
"So we are writing a user manual, except we dont actually give any specifics and its all just veiled and vibes, and users get to feel rewarded when they finally figure out what we meant, except we still do not clarify if it is true or not!"
Fuck people who do this shit. Burn them at the stake.
>play Pathof Exile way back in the day
>use explosive arrow skill
>have to figure out how to scale damage
>no clear/concise explanation if attack, projectile, and some other modifiers affect it
>tooltip is absolutely not helping
>developers dont ever even bother to explain anything
>their explanations are basically "we feel that players should be rewarded for figuring it out"
>find out not much later that developers are massive MtG nerds and based their designs on MtG
Fuck them. Fuck them all with a rusty pile driver. And then burn them at the stake.

>>3835525
Fag.

Shame we don't have a normal thread for Baldurs Gate discussion.

I tried looking online about the specifics of unkitted bard's song, does it have a luck bonus or not. Even went through the game manual.

The manual says the song gives a luck bonus.

However, in the original BG2, the song doesn't grant luck.

However, the fix pack adds the luck bonus.

I started a bard playthrough. Thank god and the creators of the fix pack.

>>3854326
You could try to start one.
Before BG3 cancer there used to be threads all the time full of people engaged in good-faith discussion of builds and the gameplay.

>>3854400
>Before BG3 cancer there used to be threads all the time full of people engaged in good-faith discussion of builds and the gameplay.
Cringe. You're part of the problem so shut the fuck up.

>>3836989
>Valkyrie Profile
Nice to meet a fellow oldfag with great taste.

>>3854403
There's no greater indictment of BG3 than the fact that "fans" rarely ever discuss the game.

>>3854422
Ok

>>3854326
do any games get normal threads?

>>3854440
The weebs seems like they tend to self-segregate into their generals and overall get along better, though the final fantasy threads are always full of slapfights about which ones are worse it’s 9. The western threads seem to be filled with a much more ornery form of autism. Like wizardry threads descend into seething slapfights almost immediately. Moderately so for threads on Morrowind, fallout, cRPGs in general, etc. basically this is a cursed board and I’m trapped here forever with you faggots

>>3835522
I fucking hate minsc. Of all characters they could have chosen, they chose Jaheira and Minsc. Fuck Bg3

I stopped playing after the Keep in bg1. Never played bg3

>>3835522
I don't like this style of rpg. Its all cringeworthy 80s 90s nerd shit. Its for people who want to copy lotr and put their own "spin" while having no conception of what made lotr good. Its dumb old nerds who think the best parts of lotr are the fights.
And thats best case scenario. Many rpgs are inspired by some of the real trash of the 80s and 90s and 2000s. The real yucky nerd books that somehow make their entire section if the library/book store smell very gross.

>>3854976
butt kicking for goodness!

>>3844934
bruh never played tabletop with friends. oof.
do you even have friends?

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>>3854976
I think both of them are done pretty well.
Unlike most of the main plot, Viconia, Sarevok, etc, etc...

>>3835522
bg3 ofc

>>3835522
I actually prefer the old goldbox SSI games, but if you ask which one I like better, the original "3" or the new BG3, I go with the original. Too much SJW shit in BG3 (Lose Paladin status for not letting refugees steal a house, sex with bears, gay sex, etc) and the combat is a pale imitation of ToEE.

the original SSI Goldbox are still the standard. Best combat, more faithful to the source material, and more options too.

BG3 is a simultaneously a Dragon Age game and a Divinity OS game but it is not a BG
I could get into BG3 for the same reason I couldn't get into BG1, 2, or either Pathfinders

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Baldur's Gate 1/2/3 and Fallout 1/2/3/NV are all good games. Oblivion is shit, though.

>>3835531

BG3 is filled with nons and foids. Neck yourself, Sven.

Core Rules is the only difficulty.

>>3856718
>yay fireball scroll
>*dynaheir, the evocationistier, fumbles the memorization of fireball and destroys the scroll*
That's gay fr

Hot take, but BG1>BG3>BG2
BG1 had the best companions, simple as they were. Memorable voice lines, not annoying, not drama queens. The freedom and exploration are top tier and it's the one that feels the most like an adventure.
BG2 feels like the forerunner to Bioware's later design, but in a bad way. Felt very railroaded at times and lacking in focus at other times, even if it's bigger and more developed it feels like there's a surface-layer modern RPG interfering whenever I try to have fun with the classic RPG beneath.
BG3 is a modern rpg 100%, with all the good and bad stuff that entails, but it's overall one of the better ones. Not really "BG" though.
I genuinely hope that the "companion has personal trauma that MC needs to fix and they all want to fuck you" trend dies, but BG3's companions are for the most part above average.
Combat is nothing to write home about because TBS is very slow and dull, but you are able to clear entire areas by breaking encounters, which is great (using spells to lock doors, silence people that call for reinforcements, preparing a trap with throwables or environmental hazards). I think I spent 3 hours on my first playthrough killing stuff in the goblin camp room by room without actually turning the camp hostile until they were all dead just by using the environment and items I had and I can't recall other modern games allowing me to do that so easily or often, classic Fallout is the most similar comparison I can think of, with pickpocketing explosives and so on.
I do find it sad that you have about as many penis options as you do for head models, I wish I could customize appearence freely.
I will always look back fondly at that boat fight with the dark dwarves that I couldn't win straight up, so I just ended up shoving all of them with my gigachad human fighter.

>>3856751
>I genuinely hope that the "companion has personal trauma that MC needs to fix and they all want to fuck you" trend dies
It would be more constructive to hope for additional/optional generic/custom party members.
People love more involved characters in RPGs and they're not going anywhere. Nor will they ever appeal to everyone's specific tastes simultaneously.

>>3856762
No, you're misunderstanding me.
I like companions with personality.
I dislike them being all somewhat-traumatized, conflicted, single horny people.
BG1 had cool companions I wish were more developed, like Coran or Xan. Coran is perpetually horny but he's never confused about who he is, doesn't gave two shits, doesn't come with any baggage and his personal quest is "hey jackass, wanna make big money by killing a wyvern?".
Xan is whiny all the time without being preachy or taking himself too seriously. There's no quest to cure his pessimism thankfully.

>>3835522
BG > BG2 > ToB >>>> Dark Alliance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BG3

>>3856777
I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Drama is a driving force for plot, character development and interaction. Think of how the player can affect Anomen and that affects his relationships with other characters.

But IMO it all boils down to whether or not a person happens to like a character. I wouldn't mind if a relatable bro had a drama quest.

Regarding BG1's characters, I see them as generics that mostly boil down to being portrait pictures with voice sets. Not great, not terrible, they can have their place.

>>3856785
BGTrilogy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BG3

>>3856795
That, too, is accurate.

>>3835531
based and truthpilled

>>3835525
this
I prefer 3 just because it's turn based
stop trying to copy diablo, dnd was not meant to work in real time

>>3835522
How good are the stealth mechanics in the first games? I was planning on playing as a Mage / Thief and wanted to know if it was any good.

>>3856973
Stealth is basically just an invisibility toggle, but it doesn't work if your character is detected, and it breaks when performing actions. Useful for scouting and starting a fight with a backstab. Can be used to avoid fights, especially if you play solo.

Stealth is not fleshed out or immersive, but I like having a thief in my party doing that stuff.

>>3854991
-doesn't do lotr-style right
It's a d&d game, and anyone who knows the actual history of d&d knows it was far more influenced by stuff like Elric, Conan, pulp stuff, etc than lotr. It having any lotr influence at all was mostly due to Arneson, Gygax borderline despised Tolkien's works.

>>3856751
>BG3's companions are for the most part above average.
Jesus Christ.
Zoomer RPG fans are hopeless.

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>>3835525
Retard. I don't play Baldur's Gate for the combats but for the LARP. RTwP is KING

>>3857521
Jon Irenicus is such a babygirl

>>3857140
Tolkien is influential... but he's absolutely not the origin of fantasy, and it's definitely up for debate whether the net effect of his influence has been positive.
That said, Gygax's ideas about game design and narrative construction leave much to be desired. Happily, D&D was not solely his own personal creation.
Sadly, Tolkien's influence on the game has remained strong. To quote Terry Pratchett: “J.R.R. Tolkien has become a sort of mountain, appearing in all subsequent fantasy in the way that Mt. Fuji appears so often in Japanese prints. Sometimes it’s big and up close. Sometimes it’s a shape on the horizon. Sometimes it’s not there at all, which means that the artist either has made a deliberate decision against the mountain, which is interesting in itself, or is in fact standing on Mt. Fuji.”
So although D&D could benefit tremendously from the emergence of popular non-Tolkienian fantasy, it will be a long time before such works are not interpreted through a Tolkienian lens.

>>3857587
>it's definitely up for debate whether the net effect of his influence has been positive.
>That said, Gygax's ideas about game design and narrative construction leave much to be desired
Stopped reading here

>>3857588
Ok.

>>3835525
Turn based is. It's just a huge downgrade compared to RTwP
>everyone is just politely taking turns for some reason, immediately breaking immersion even more so than pausing the game ever could
>slows the game to a crawl
>cuts down on tactics because instead of controlling everyone at the same time you now only control one person one by one
Aside from BG3 being turn based, there's other aspects making it a bad game.
>awkward dialogue cutscenes where the MC stands around autistically
>voice acting that is spoken slower than I can read and just bloats the game
>MMO item rarity
>awful inventory management
>no atmosphere
>forgettable music
>capeshit writing

>>3857587
Tolkien just collected all myths that were around and sewed them up into a patchwork Frankenstein's monster, and then he had the gall to shit talk C.S Lewis for doing the same, but with a Christian reskin.

>>3857612
They were both Christian reskins, anon. Tolkien was friends with C.S. Lewis, but Tolkien was a Catholic (and a racist English nationalist) while Lewis was a Protestant. The main point of contention between the two was that Lewis believed fantasy was more like Saturday morning cartoons: silly entertainment for children where there's a "moral of the story" at the end of every episode. Tolkien wasn't writing entertainment, he was creating a myth. The purpose of a myth is to encode an entire culture all at once for preservation and transmission to subsequent generations. Tolkien's main complaint about English culture was that it (relatively) lacked that kind of "national myth" which many other countries have, and he set about to create one. And succeeded, in a way, just that, ironically, the myth he created has been a bit more universal than he intended.

All that business about depicting the Hobbits as insular, decent "just plain folks" dripping with hyper-cozy aesthetic who are just so fucking good and pure that they don't succumb to the evil of foreign fascism like literally everyone else does? That's Tolkien's nationalism. He was a full-throated member of the movement which was threatening to evolve into the British nazism right before the war's outbreak polarized Europe. And he kept all of that all the way to the end of his life after the war was over.

Lewis was totally on board, he just believed that Christianity was the thing to be nationalist about, and it's just a quirk of semantics that Christianity isn't a "nation".

>>3857618
>and it's just a quirk of semantics that Christianity isn't a "nation".
Israel. Christendom.

>>3857587
>it's definitely up for debate whether the net effect of his influence has been positive.
Most people who think Tolkien's effect has been "negative" blame Tolkien for shit that is probably more reasonably blamed on other people, like Lester Del Ray, for aggressively pushing formulaic fantasy novels to cash in on Tolkien's popularity.
>>3857612
>collected all myths that were around and sewed them up into a patchwork Frankenstein's monster,
It's not just a patchwork. He did it really well and that's why it's so hard to escape the sense that everything fantasy is somehow derived from Tolkien.

>>3835522
I prefer the superior Enhanced Edition trilogy (Black Pits, Black Pits 2, Siege of Dragonspear)

>>3857618
>They were both Christian reskins
Christianity itself is a reskin
All fantasy, religion and mythology is just reskins of Jungian Archetypes.

>>3857918
6/10 bait

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>>3836061
>The original game works great as is

For some it does and for some it doesn't.

It is a huge mess and fucking retarded redditors running defense for the Beamdog mutilations are not helping it either.

BG desperately needs the OpenMW treatment and GemRB being an unfinished and poorly managed hobby project is hampering anyone who might want to make it happen.

>>3858034
>retarded redditors running defense for the Beamdog
I do wonder what those kind of fanboys get out of it. Why rush to the defence and scream so much about how there are no problems?

>>3858034
>BG desperately needs the OpenMW treatment
Why? It’s done. The game is out there. All the mods for it were made decades ago. What else is left to do? Just play BG if you want to. It exists.

>>3836111
Excellent where "hurr roleplaying" is just an excuse for pointlessly cryptic game design that adds nothing positive to the experience. If it were a tabletop game, the DM and player would be able to have a whole conversation with back-and-forth to develop a mutual understanding (for example, we're already helping X with his quest, can we can do yours next?). As it is, all you get to say is that you're going to go rescue Imoen [or get revenge on Irenicus], at the outset. And that's it.

BG2's way of implementing this is mostly just annoying. It encourages the player to feel anxious and harried about his party for no good reason. BG2's model for larger-scale passing time is awkward at best. None of the companions are particularly clear about how much time you have before they'll get frustrated and ditch you, and you have no ability to negotiate with them at all.

Btw I'm not otherwise shitting on BG2 in this thread, I think it's a great game but there are a number of notable flaws and the presentation and pacing of chapter 2 is one of them.

>>3857609
>slows the game to a crawl
You can manage speed in most tbs games.
>cuts down on tactics because instead of controlling everyone at the same time you now only control one person one by one
Rtwp fans love posting this and can't post a single actual"tactical " move that rtwp would allow you to do

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>>3858656
>can't post a single actual"tactical " move that rtwp would allow you to do
I haven't posted on this retarded topic in years because people like you are so utterly retarded.
The fundamental difference is simultaneous movement.
This is obvious and shouldn't even need to be explained.
I mspaint'd picrel in 2021 after getting frustrated subhuman retards like you.

Most of the tabletop-based games that use RTwP do a shit job of really exploiting the possibilities of the system, because they're adapted from turn-based. But consider a spell like Aganazzar's Scorcher from Baldur's Gate. You could have a similar ability that didn't root the caster in place for the duration, that would ONLY be possible with RTwP. You could even have an ability that links to a teammate, where two units in the same party have a beam effect between them and then move together in an attempt to "clothesline" enemies in between. Again, not possible with turn-based without special rules for simultaneous movement.

All of this effort arguing and none of you are any closer to the simple realizations that all BG games are bad and you just have preferences for their various presentations which were also objectively bad but that is harder to notice.

>>3858715
>zero-content shitpost
/vrpg/

>>3858725
What did you want me to do, specifically point up the motherfuckers who have veered off into arguing about the philosophy of theology in fantasy fiction? It's a self evident premise if you're not a fuckin' retard (unlikely, I know).

>>3858713
If they have the same speed, then even in turn-based left won't catch right. He'll spend his turn getting to range then watch the other guy run away.

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>>3835522
i am playing EE at the moment and vanilla BG's writing (minus SoD) is so drastically better than anything in BG3 (or SoD) it is fucking ridiculous

The difference between the two is ironically best exemplified by Neera, who was clearly written by a modern writer.

The way you encounter her, the way her incident with the red wizards takes all the seriousness out of the situation, it's so stupid.
Like, those guys are vicious slavers and actually fucking dangerous if edwin isnt around.
But the modern writing team obviously cant have that.

Gotta add slapstick and marvel quips by "le whacky girl character (she has student loans (tm) btw ;^)"

It's fucking awful
BG3 is similar.

BG1/2 on the other hand? Fucking perfect. Or at least very high quality in comparison.
The chapter texts alone are better than most of what you get in BG3

>>3858729
>What did you want me to do
You have nothing worth posting, so I want you to do nothing.

>>3858737
>If they have the same speed, then even in turn-based left won't catch right.
Incorrect. In the example, an attack action does not consume any movement. If it did, all I'd have to do is trivially alter the example to account for that. Hell, I could say the attacker has a damage shield affects adjacent squares automatically. Again we'd be in the same situation where I'd be demonstrating a scenario possible in RTwP that is impossible in TB.
>He'll spend his turn getting to range then watch the other guy run away.
In RTwP, he never gets in range, period. This is sufficiently different to refute the claim here >>3858656

>>3837030
Yeah, you've won the argument because you've depicted yourself as the handsome aryan chad and the strawman as an ugly, fly-swarmed, obese racist caricature.

>>3858790
This is the reason Dorks & Degenerates have been struggling so hard to gatekeep the community and culture we suffered for decades to build. We don't want le manic pixie dreamgurl to appropriate our culture and ruin it while misrepresenting herself as belonging to it or having the authority to do so.

Girls have never been excluded from gamer spaces. It's the toxic bullshit that is. And they're weaponizing the public's perceptions to do so: by misrepresenting the problem as "those mean old incels are just trying to abuse wimminz!!!" they can suppress any contravening argument.

The gamers' argument isn't that women shouldn't be allowed in the boys' club. It's that outsiders must be respectful and shouldn't be allowed to shit all over a serious and unique artform.

Imagine if manic quirky pixie dreamgirl injected herself into an opera troupe and during the performance began to rip her clothes off and perform a burlesque pole dance. That is not opera. That isn't what this is. At all. At fucking all. And then the stage managers tried to get her off the stage, and she begins shrieking about misogyny and how dare you try to exclude a girl from opera! She's got a right to enjoy herself and have fun!

That's what they're doing to gaming of all kinds.

You're not welcome here, you stupid fucking bitch, and it's not because you're a girl, it's because you're a toxic abuser whose only interest here is to ruin something beautiful and make everything about you. Kill yourself, MacKynesleigh.

>>3858713
>Most of the tabletop-based games that use RTwP do a shit job of really exploiting the possibilities of the system, because they're adapted from turn-based. But consider a spell like Aganazzar's Scorcher from Baldur's Gate. You could have a similar ability that didn't root the caster in place for the duration, that would ONLY be possible with RTwP. You could even have an ability that links to a teammate, where two units in the same party have a beam effect between them and then move together in an attempt to "clothesline" enemies in between. Again, not possible with turn-based without special rules for simultaneous movement.
Again with the headcanons and no actual gameplay examples. How many times do i have to tell you rtwp people? POST ACTUAL GAMEPLAY EXAMPLES YOU ENCOUNTERED AND NOT SOME FANTASY THING IN YOUR HEAD.

>>3835522
There were some problematic moments in the older games

>>3858944
Can you give specific examples?

>>3858974
NTA, but trans Edwin and Belt of Femininity/Masculinity, Implied Imoen rape, unimplied rape of dryads, Shar'Teel, Durlag having sex with a doppelganger (who are all male-like) and implied incest on the lycantrope island.

>>3835777
>First of all, nobody really plays the original BG1 anymore only the Enhanced Edition, which differs quite a bit.
I beg to differ.
Offline backups are your friends. I've played the original BG1 and 2 many times, never touched the EE crap.

>>3858988
>the original BG1
No mods to put it in BG2's engine?

>>3858988
True. You can download the original BG1 off the "www.old-games.ru" right now.

>>3858989
Why would you want to do that? All it does is break stuff.

>>3835533
BG3 romance is very shallow and has no relevance to the story or gameplay so I wouldnt really call it a cornerstone, compare to say fire emblem awakening