Final Fantasy IX is a game you either love or hate. Which camp are you on?
it's ok
>>3835720It's my favorite Final Fantasy game
>>3835730>Everyone has a partner>Except QuinaToday I've learned I am Quina.
It's pretty good. A little too easy for my taste. Once you unlock auto-haste and auto-regen you've basically won the game.
>>3835720It’s highly overrated. I would rate it below any of the other PSX or SNES era FFs.
>>3835730Zidane cracked that open
>>3835720I love it but I also feel like it's overrated. It feels like when people say it's their favorite it's because they want to look sophisticated (while talking about video games).
>>3835720I hate it because the ATB is the loosest one in the whole series and has the most abusable way to out-turn opponents by stalling their ATB bars during animations. If the screws were tightened up and the turn inequality was fixed, it would immediately have a positive effect on the game's balance and challenge.
>>3835730Where's necron?
>>3835924>It feels like when people say it's their favorite it's because they want to look sophisticatedthat's 12, not 9.
>>3835982Nah, people have been doing that since well before 12 came out. There was a certain style of FF fan who started the series with the PSX games (7 was absolutely huge for its time, and tons of people played it as their first) but wanted to be proto-hipsters (this was a few years before that was a thing) and claimed 9 as their favorite in an attempt to borrow the street cred of the older pre-7 games.
>>3835720Its not my favorite but its up there. It has a few problems but overall I think its a pretty damn good game. And has really good storytelling for a Final Fantasy game
I love FFIX. Too easy and too slow without mods but the atmosphere is perfect. Even having beaten it ~10 times I still discover new hidden scenes and treasures each run.>>3835731I know you're talking about that image, but... You can choose for Quina and Vivi to get married in Conde Petie in the game lol.On the topic, the entire Qu clan appears to be a racist depiction of the Chinese.
>>3835720Love it. This was the Only FF game I owned as a child. I didn't play any others until I was an adult and so I thought the rest of the series was similar in aesthetic. Naturally, I was pretty shocked when I booted up FF7 for the first time and it looked like Blade Runner.
>>3836055I didn't know you could marry anyone else besides Zidane and Garnet
>>3835720No, I think it’s good, just not as overwhelmingly good as 7 or 8 (I started at 7, don’t come at me)
>>3836104Yep IMO it's not as good as 7 and 6, but I disagree, it is definitely better than 8 if you hate the junction system
>>3835720Love the first 2 discs.Neutral towards the 3rd.Fucking hate the 4th.
>>3835730I like that it's implying Amarant is the down low with Kuja. That's adorable and sexy at the same time. Very classic pairing, hyper-camp femme twink with daddy issues and a superiority complex going with the closeted, self-loathing hypermasculine stoic martial artist. Very RawDawg comics Bingus/Stahli.
>>3835924How is it overrated? It's the final summation of everything learned from the previous final fantasies (except for 7 and 8 which were practice demos for the nu-anime yet to come). Everything about the old school final fantasy concept is perfected and polished in 9, executed without any weak elements, even. It's the platonic ideal of the jrpg form. Literally.
>>3835720IX is my fav of the ones I have played. >>3835731Amarant is also alone.and technically, Kuja and Mikoto are siblings
>>3836163>executed without any weak elementsCombat pacing kills the game.Combat in general is kind of shitty with abilities being tacked on and boring.Too much bloat (Mognet, shitty card game, ect.)
>>3836166No, Amarant is with Kuja, he's just embarrassed about it. But being seen in public together is a big step for him, so it's ok if he takes his time.
>>3836174Yeah, just make shit up and say the opposite of whatever is happening. Yeah. Sure. Ok. Cool.
>>3836181The most often mentioned complaint is that the combat is way too slow.
>>3835720I haven't beaten it yet, but where I'm at I honestly couldn't answer. I really like it, but at the same time, the characters have been stuck in their existential crisis without any attempts to grow so it feels like the story isn't going anywhere AND the battles are becoming aggravatingly slow. So I don't know.
>>3836185We know you talk a lot. Like. That's obvious. Your problem is that you think whatever feces tumbles from your face hole is the same thing as a valid opinion or critique. It's not. And it does not matter how frequently you shit from your face, that's just irrelevant.
>>3836163>first FF with a female protagonist
>>3836174>Combat pacing kills the game.You can't even play the game today legally without a version fast forward options.Original game has hacks to fix that.>Combat in general is kind of shitty with abilities being tacked on and boring.I have no idea what you mean?>Too much bloat (Mognet, shitty card game, ect.)Mognet, is not necessary.The card game is only needed in treno and you can lose. This isn't ff8 where the entire game is structured around the card game.ff9 has the least amount of bloat amount he ff psx games.tldr: You are a fag making shit up.
>>3836188>>3836181The combat is fucked and did absolutely NOTHING with ATB as a concept while other games were actually inovating and developing at a concept. Why are you behaving like a mindless fanboy? That's Sakaguchi's problem, he doesn't care about gameplay at all, which I guess he does know his audience because they don't care about gameplay either.
>>3836268>The combat is fuckedYour wrong opinion, a susual.>OTHING with ATB as a concept while other games were actually inovating and developing at a concept.ff7-9 all use the same atb system with slight variance in speed. Only once ff10 arrives do any real changes happen.Materia, junction and skills have nothing to do with atb.>Why are you behaving like a mindless fanboy?The better question is why are you behaving like a mindless hater?>he doesn't care about gameplay at allAh yes, the man that oversaw the majority the ff's with good gameplay cares nothing about gameplay?
>>3835720I don't hate it, but I just could never get into it. Which is odd considering I liked FF7 and FF8. I guess the characters, story, world don't really appeal to me and the battles feel like a slog. The game also feels like it runs worse than FF7 and FF8.
>>3835720For me it was the culmination and perfect end to the series. In the end I like 6 and 3 a little more overall, but 9 is near perfect and a wonderful blend of the older and newer games. I was so satisfied after it I stopped playing the series, though I do still kind of want to try 12 now.
>>3835730>Omits Necron>No Zorn and Thorn>Forgets about the Disc-1 power-coupleWhat even is this?
>>3836188The ATB system in 9 is almost half as fast as 8, which is about half the speed of 7.There's a patch to fix it.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4EmoTxMUiRMYou're retarded or a not.
>>3836312>ff7-9 all use the same atb system with slight variance in speed> slight variance in speed> slight variance9 being 1/3 the speed of 7 is "slight variance" dude remove Square's cock from your tonsils
>>3836396Your argument had nothing to do with speed.You were arguing that other games were "revolutionizing" the atb system used in ff9, nobody mentioned speed.And speed is an acknowledged problem with ff9 that is literally solved IN EVERY SINGLE VERSION OF FFIX TODAY.Using an emulator, you have built in speed options and rom hacks.Using steam or other version, you have built in speed options.Not my problem you can't even follow your own arguments.
>>3836396>"slight variance"To help put this in a visual context.The same "slight variance" can be seen in sales between 7 and 9.
>>3836403Wow,7 outsold 9 by a lot. And your point is?I know you are obviously illiterate but there is major difference when dealing with a couple of seconds and millions units sold differences.And the difference in speed is slight since we are dealing with sub 10 second differences.To explain to to you simply, 1 x 2 = 2, which is a slight increase in numbers even though it is doubled.
>>3836401That's not me, retard. I'm just taking issue with speed being a "minor issue".Speed is one of the major issues.And not just speed, but also ATB progression during enemy & party animations, and how statuses tick during these.It's possible that more than one person feels you're full of shit.
>>3836418>That's not me, retardYou are seriously using "it is not me "?>Speed is one of the major issues.>And not just speed, but also ATB progression during enemy & party animations, and how statuses tick during these.So you can obviously prove these with data, right? I mean actual numbers, not percentages.You must have data compared to 7 and 8, right?I thought so, you are full of shit. Game is slower then 7 and 8, but not in an extreme way you are trying to present it.
>>3836424"Everyone who disagrees with me is my gang stalker" take your meds, schizo lolcow.Literally run a battle in each game in emulators at the same time, and see for yourself.
>>3836426If it is so simple, just try it yourself and give me some data.I know you won't.
>>3836418The biggest mistake Final Fantasy made was decoupling the menu controls from the animations, and the second biggest mistake was a lack of transparency about the state of queued actions.Allowing the player to clog up the command queue with a mountain of garbage that takes an eternity to execute would have honestly been acceptable if it wasn't for the fact that the limiting factor was always technical shit and low spec hardware. They finally started to get shit sorted out in FFXII when the majority of the most commonly used actions could execute simultaneously without breaking the flow of battle (the exceptions being high-end animations that required the whole system to focus on it).Literally all they needed to do at any point was show a list of who is doing what and in what order and a solid 50% of people's perceived issues with ATB would be fixed, since they would have new information to consider instead of being forced to sit around doing fuck all.
>>3836436We all know you'll claim "fake news" and try and claim the gamespeed/video has been altered. You could watch a million youtube videos on the issue but you've deluded yourself in to thinking it's a conspiracy.
>>3836467What a surprise, the old "you will claim it is fake so i won't even bother"Post a video or stats and if you do, actually make sure the video is talking about that and i will concede.
>>3836436At level 99.Zidane has a base speed of 32 Cloud has 55-62 Squall has 37Objectively speaking the ATB in 8 is almost as slow as 9, however it is much easier to increase your speed in 8.
>>3835720love. blue text bubble give me the ick though
>>3836480>Objectively speaking the ATB in 8 is almost as slow as 9,So, what was the point of this than? Both 8 and 9 are much slower than 7.And the difference between squall and zidane, base stat wise is not more than 5 seconds.5,05 if you stretch it.Would have helped your case if i didn't have to calculate this shit.But yeah ff9 is the slowest, but people treat it like the differences are more than 10 seconds.But thanks you for at least posting some data.
>>3836496That doesn't factor in loading and animation times:Midgar Zolom (FF7) take 8sec from 'contact' to atb gaugeJimbo Cactaur (FF8) take 9secGrand Dragon (FF9) take 19secActual combat animations is an issue that is more compex but follows the same trend of being slower in FF9.
>>3836436>If it is so simple, just try it yourself and give me some data.I know you won't.Because I don't care anywhere as much as you do; also you're weird & I don't want to interact with you. Wish the mods would ban these schizos.The person who cares the most is the one who should do the work. Go load up your emulator & record a few battles, then compare the length of a melee attack, magic spell, summon, battle start, and battle end.>>3836444FFT solved that with the CT queue. It wouldn't work as well in real time with menu/animation pause systems like ATB.Party vs Party turns like FF1 should make a return.FF12 had the action CT, the action wind up, and finally the action.Besides animations being faster & statuses being paused when CT is, I think many queued actions could resolve simultaneously if they don't involve the same targets & there is no party wide counter occurring. Similar to Suikoden.
>BUT IT'S SLOW BUT THE ANIMATIONS BUT THE LOAD TIMESyeah well maybe you should stop being a zoomer with 0 attention span and enjoy looking at the things happening on the screenalternatively you can just take out your phone and watch tiktoks while you play the game
>>3836509>enjoy looking at the things happening on the screenAre you including the the blank loading screen that takes half the total loading time in that statement.Your statement also explains why you cannot it see the flaws, you're fixated on visuals.
>lame main character>lame party members>lame story>lame twist>lame world>lame villains>lame load times and slow animations>lame minigames>extremely lame superboss>lame shit like Excalibur 2 gated by playtimeIt’s just a weak game. Goofy-ass 8 is a better game than it, much less the series peak games like 5, 6, 7, or Tactics. I see no reason why I would ever replay 9.
>>3835730This.
More like Final Fantasy 9 seconds wasted before every attack.
Took a while but I finally found this relevant post.
>>3836536Close, but digimon world 2 is the worst by far.
>>3836514yes that's why i recommended you take your phone out and go on tiktokactually watching a playthrough of an rpg on youtube at 2x speed with a podcast on in the background and sewer surfers on the side might be more your speed
It's good. Freya and Amarant just needed more presence in the plot and the battle speed could had been faster. But otherwise is a pretty good RPG.
>>3836543How long is it?
>>38365525.9 seconds.Technically 6.
>>3836882Shit, meant 16.2.
>>3836543DW2 has bigger issues like the ungodly framerate just during battle normally because of how much shit the devs thought they needed to cram onto the screen at once.
>>3836403Sales numbers have more to do with marketing contemporary zeitgeist than quality of the product. Period.
>>3836403>>3836908Also following a beloved entry leads to higher sales, and following a not so beloved one does the opposite. FFVIII benefited from FFVII's reception, and FFIX was hindered by VIII's.
>>3836977Agreed, ff8 was loathed in japan. People seem to magically forget that.
>>3835720It was a nice change of pace from the more serious tone of FF8. I wish the characters were more memorable. Vivi stands out as the one character that's really stood the test of time.It was Squares worst offence for "buy the guide" sidequests and puzzles.
>>3836977If we're going to follow your logic you will also have to claim almost everything post-9 is better than 9.Is that the world you want to live in? Is that the world
>>383708210 is>t. dropped series after 10, blissfully ignorant of what came after
>>3837082>If we're going to follow your logic you will also have to claim almost everything post-9 is better than 9.7 was a monument in rpg dales for that era. Of course 8 would benefit from that and people expected more of the same.Past 8 people figured out each ff is its own thing and they weren't gonna just buy it outright.
>>3836977>FFVIII benefited from FFVII's reception, and FFIX was hindered by VIII's.This. A lot of people originally quit VIII early back then and swore off the franchise. And IX was late in the PSX's life cycle - 6 years after the PSX released.Still, it didn't sell poorly, picrel, VII just sold like crazy.
>>383708510 Is not the weakest in the franchise but it's definitely as good as 9, not even close. The attempt to make a such comparison offends the senses.9 is the best in the franchise. Very bluntly. It's even better than 6, and absolutely head, shoulders and chest above 7.
>>3837152>it's definitely as good as 9Based.
>>3837158Ok, a typo by omission, sue me.
>>3837171>sue meI don’t think I will. I appreciate you agreeing with me that 10 is one of the final fantasies of all time.
>>3837179
>>3837152>it's definitely as good as 9,No. Too much linearity and cutscenes. The sphere grid system is like chrono cross, attempting something new and failing.The combat system in 10 is better, but everything else, especially exploration is just worse.
>>383720310 has better characters, plot, and music. Shame it was the ur-hallway-simulator. When I got the airship I knew it was my final final fantasy.
>>3837203see>>3837171
>>3835720Its ok, think its hyped up way more than how good it actually is.
>>3837149>A lot of people originally quit VIII early back then and swore off the franchise. And IX was late in the PSX's life cycle - 6 years after the PSX released.>Still, it didn't sell poorly, picrel, VII just sold like crazy.That's a lot of cope.By the very chart you provided, 8 was a stones through behind 7 in sales. Let's entertain your delusion and say 8 is on par with 9. What percentage of those sales would you say were people who gut 'duped'? Because for the sales to equate you're grasping at one hell of a conspiracy theory.And if your defense is the PSX was at end of life. Look at Harry Potter a game that came out over a year later (and after the release of the PS2) and still outsold 9.
>>3837261>By the very chart you provided, 8 was a stones through behind 7 in salesYes, because many people wanted a sequel to a popular game so they bought the game blind.>What percentage of those sales would you say were people who gut 'duped'Almost all of them. In japan were buying 8 too see squall's conclusion. They thought squall was his cousin or some shit. A friend of mine bought the game and immediately asked where is the materia and tifa?You are underestimating how big of a phenomenon ff7 was and how much people blindly bought a sequel thinking it will be the same.>ook at Harry Potter a game that came out over a year laterHarry potter game was riding the movie popularity and was easily gonna outsell a sequel to a hated game. The ip was huge.And 9 had to contend with the ps 2 ff10 releasing soon . People were not interested in a ps1 ff game anymore.
>>3837282>many people wanted a sequel to a popular game so they bought the game blind.>You are underestimating how big of a phenomenon ff7 was and how much people blindly bought a sequel thinking it will be the same.Keep coping.FF7 sold 5.85m in it's first 3 months and almost doubled its sales over time from releaseFF8 sold 5.95mFF9 sold 5.05m which is almost its whole sales You can argue marketing and previous game influence all you want but where 7 and 8 managed to sustain sales, 9 did not. The post-release trend tells us that once people started getting their hands on the product the market lost interest. FF9 was not well received.>People were not interested in a ps1 ff game anymore.There was enough of a market for Potter. And that game was released at the same time as the PS2. Do you think people were rushing out to buy and a PS2 and a PS1 game at the same time? Did you really believe the the school ground rumors that if you put a PS1 game in a PSX2 it would give you better graphics (and unlock that secret level where Harry gets a gun).
>>3837261>a stones throughESL retard.
>>3837325That's a lot of words to say you didn't like the game, which is all you really needed to say. FF9 was very well received and sold extremely well.
>>3835730This. Loved it.
>>3835720IX is my favorite Final Fantasy of all time, X is second, VIII is third, and VII is fourth.
>>3835720Neither. I liked it. The ending almost made me choke up. I have no intention of playing it again, though.
>>3837386>picsloppa
>>3837449I prefer Moguri Mod in 4kv 60fps with speed boosts. I still have my original discs from childhood and this is what I prefer. Deal with it.>sloppaHell, I probably beat the game before you were born.
>>3837325>where 7 and 8 managed to sustain sales, 9 did notFF8 sold around 6 million by the end of 1999. Almost half of those sales ( 2.5 mill) were pre orders.Most of the sales came in the first month. FF8 had decent sales after because it was still a ff game and had a much larger fanbase base because it didn't come out a year before a new ff entry on a new console.>There was enough of a market for PotterYes, there was a bigger market for a different type of IP. How hard is this to understand?Are you a bean counter?>And that game was released at the same time as the PS2There was no harry potter game for the ps2 coming out soon. There was ff10 coming out soon after 9.>. Do you think people were rushing out to buy and a PS2 and a PS1 game at the same time?I want to play Potter game based on the movie?My only option is ps1, i buy the game.I want to play ff games:I can buy 9 or i can save money for the ps2 and the shiny new ff10 which trailers are looking cool.Is this a foreign concept for you?
>>3837385Attacking an ESL is the same as attacking FFIX for its mis-translations.Just saying.
>>3837386>That's a lot of words to say you didn't like the game, which is all you really needed to saythis is incredibly, INCREDIBLY difficult for people to do. you can't just say "well i didn't like it." you need to go "erm it's objectively bad because x y and z and it only sold n copies whereas OTHER game that i like more sold more so yeah your game sucks."sad!
>>3835720It's legit the weakest PS1 FF game as a game.Main reason people like it is the setting, aesthetic and a few of the characters (mainly Vivi, Zidane, Freya and to a lesser extent Garnet).If you don't feel strongly about any of these things to the point where you can overlook a mountain of issues you're not gonna have a great time.The poor pacing, weak combat, tedious leveling and relative aimlessness are the big offenders. Most of the cast, including the ones people like, are all slow burns too.It all results in a very slow and tedious game.
>>3837325
>>3837458Moguri felt very.... like... maybe "too balanced" in a way? Like whatever ability you used was gonna do the same thing as any other ability so there was no reason to care? Also the fucking giant right after you recruit that toddler white mage summoner thing - with Moguri, your levitate doesn't last long enough to protect you from his earthquake attack so the game literally just ends with that fight since it's mathematically not possible to beat him. So Moguri is ok up to that point, but then the game is broken and you can't complete it.
>>3835924Its probably the game that gets the most underserved shit if anything lol like people genuinely try and call the entire game garbage because theirs an extra final boss that only kinda makes sense.As if not every rpg on the planet doesn’t have a few bosses that are kinda random
>>3837610We're talking about the original PS1 release, it makes no sense to say it didn't sell well because the PS1 was at the end of its life if you're including non-PS1 sales that occcured 20 years later.
>>3837606Nah ff9 is worth playing even if it's a tad slowFf8 would never be worth playingCombat in all of these games suck, and character building mechanics have always been medicore.Ff7 materia is cool on paper but you don’t get cool materia until the game is over and ff8 system is actual nonsense that makes it too easy to braindead auto attack 100% of the time as your only option and actually hurts you to bother doing anything uniqueLeast ff9 system just works and you have a few moments of getting later gear early via hidden or minigame that has a cool ability on it
>>3837637Isn't moguri just a graphic smod?Unleashed is the difficulty mod.
>>3837644>Ff8 would never be worth playingFF8 is arguably one of the most worthwhile to play through because it's the most experimental, arguably has the best soundtrack in the series, has some impactful and well-made scenarios (even if all of them don't always land), gives the player a lot of control, has a lot of secrets and nuance, is very varied and pretty well paced.FF9 is by far the worst in terms of the gameplay out of all of the PS1 games and it's not even close.It also cannot be understated how incredibly bad the pacing of FF9 is. Directly contrasting it with 7 is shocking. The Midgar section is around 6 hours. Run through your head what happens and what you do during that time. Then compare that to 9. Then keep doing that for each chunk of 7 and compare it to 9.Even if you like 9, calling it a slow burn is the understatement of the century.
>>3837656Whichever one it was that made the gameplay changes / balance. I just remember the name moguri from that run. I don't remember the graphics being any smoother or better at all. Completely unnoticeable.
>>3837662I'm just so amazed that you can share SO many opinions and every single one of them are each so ridiculously contrary to actual reality. Seek emergency medical attention immediately because you're having a stroke or a psychiatric crisis.
>>3837643I wouldn't even claim it didn't sell well simply because it sold less than its predecessors. It's part of the top 20 best selling PS1 titles ever made and has been regarded a success and has sustained a strong fanbase, why do you think they're putting this much effort into its anniversary as opposed to VIII?Aside from being in the unfortunate position to follow up on that game, they also announced IX, X and XI at a single event. A period in which graphical leaps were still very significant and hype for the next generation of platforms was huge. No surprise X took a lot of the attention.
>>3837665You should try and be less of a blind fanboy. It's healthier.What part triggered you? The part where I demonstrated how much worse paced FF9 is compared to say 7?
>>3837656Yes, Moguri is mostly a graphics mod (no gameplay changes other than speed) but the newest version runs off of the Memoria Engine launcher and allows for other mods to be added on, there's a list of like 50 approved mods available. And before someone points it out, yes I use the orchestral fan soundtrack, it's nice.
>>3837678There are more than a few (that I'm not going to try) that DO change the game. Who knows what that anon was using. But again, Moguri is the graphics mod.Some of these are huge overhauls to the systems, items, enemy 'AI' behavior code, and characters. Picrel this one adds ~30 bosses.
>>3837458>Hell, I probably beat the game before you were born.You beat the game in 1985?
>>3837689>A 40 year old man not only cares how others use their toys but also uses "sloppa" unironically.Do you think I'm just going to go back to 240p and load times because of this? I've played this game so many times; I'll do what I want.
>>3837697>Hehe I'm so old, I'm gonna shame you for being a young man>Oh shit he's actually older than me let me shame him for being oldMake up your mind.
>>3837698I made up your mind to discard your shitty opinion, because this is how I prefer to play the game. I was born in the 80s too, and I'm waaaay too old to say "sloppa" or care how others play video games. I play this shit in 4K with AI upscales and speed boosts, with a fan-made soundtrack with real violins and pianos. Deal with it.What do you play? Let's see Paul Allen's screenshots.
>>3835720Love it, my favorite.
>>3837703Man, you sure are insecure. I just used a word and you're here writing essays to defend yourself. I'm allowed to express that shit's ugly, no need to have a meltdown and prove yourself in the eyes of everyone else.
>>3837707What do you play?
>>3837713Not sure how criticizing a graphical mod has any relevance on this, I haven't criticized the game (I'm OP btw), but here, since you're desperate for an own, as slightly as can be, feel free to shit on me. Unlike you I won't care and won't psychoanalyze you to death.
>>3837717Look, I don't go around shitting on other peoples' stuff, ever. If you harass everyone no one will post their own content. It's just how I choose to play the game. You can play in 240p all day, I won't complain.
>>3837719>harassIf you think what I did (calling an AI upscaling mod "sloppa") is harassment, you're a snowflake and also fucked up in the head. Get a grip.
>>3835720>>3835730IX is my favorite, possibly due to nostalgic reasons, but I wish it was more open. You don't really get free reign until you get the Blue Narciss, and even that is somewhat limited until you get the Hilda Garde 3. It's a shame it takes three discs before you can freely choose your party and go around the world at your leisure.
I think most titles feel very janky to play but it was good for its gen
>>3835720It is the best one, it is a high note.
>>3837669You should try and be less of a blind hater. It's healthier.What part triggered you? The part where you were called out on your horse shit?
>>3837665>>3837831FYI everyone there are bots & dozens if communities dedicated solely to making the boards less enjoyable to users.The next time the site gets pwned these types will be identified.Anyways, what are the pros & cons of fixed character builds versus jobs, & both versus more granular stuff like materia?I would like a but lore customizability for FF9, but I'm not sure how to do it. Maybe more possible builds through gear & skills, limited by magic stones?Events that alter stats?
>>3836055>Too easy and too slow without modsI played it on original hardware a couple of years ago and for some reason this just didn't bother me at all. I think it's because I was sitting in front of an actual PS1 and CRT like it was 20 years ago, so it sort of adjusted my expectations. It was mildly annoying when the turn queue would get obviously backed up while you were waiting for a move to come out, but the battle loading times and transitions were a total non-issue.>>3836144>it is definitely better than 8 if you hate the junction systemIt's better than 8 even if you don't hate the junction system, by virtue of being a complete game with actual characters and a coherent plot.
>>3836174If mognet and tetramaster count as "bloat" then I wish more games had "bloat" like FF9, where it's completely optional and easily ignored.
>>3836536All this list really shows me is that how much I enjoy a good game has very little to do with how quickly it loads battles. FF9 and Skies of Arcadia are both GOAT. Also:>FF8 battle load time is only 2 seconds shorter yet nobody complains about itThis kinda proves that people only complain about petty shit like battle load times when there's nothing more obvious to bitch about. FF8 is the game everyone loves to hate, yet I've never heard anyone curse the load times—too busy bitching about drawing spells, I guess.
>>3837149I wonder how FF9's sales compare to 7 and 8 if you only take Japanese sales into account. In the US, all of my FF-loving friends had zero interest in 9 from the get-go. I think they saw it had lost the gritty/diesel/cyberpunk aesthetics and gone back to "fairy tale fantasy" with chibi characters, so they assumed it was too "kiddy" and just avoided it.I'd also wager a lot of FF9's lost sales have to do with the fact that 8 was shit and showed fans of FF7 that they shouldn't just expect more of the same, so they were wary of 9 after being burned by 8. Plus, the PS2 was on the horizon. 9 probably just seemed like a good game to skip, to a lot of casual fans.
>>3837891During this summer it was the number 1 downloaded game in Japan thanks to the sale, not so much in the west. I get the impression it's generally more liked in Europe as well.FF9 has had a bit of an interesting resurgence, not much action between its release until 2019. Since then it sold another 3 million copies, probably the getting it on the switch.
>>3836174Optional bloat is good. Chocobo Hot & Cold was comfy. >>3836163AUTISM WARNING:For me it mainly fails in its cast dynamics/interactions beyond what the MC and his relationships offer (a lot of jrpgs do, however). It's a metric I personally put a lot of value into and therefore even beloved games can fall short. They had something really nice going with ATEs and it was painfully underutilized. When people praise the game they usually are talking about the story/characters and I'm always puzzled because I played the same game and don't feel that strongly about it. For me what I loved was the setting, gameplay, and like you said the "polish" on the idea of FF. But for the story itself I really only liked Vivi's arc and not much else after Brahne's death.
>>3837891>I wonder how FF9's sales compare to 7 and 8 if you only take Japanese sales into account.FF8: 3.70mFF9: 2.86mhttps://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy
>>38357206> 9 > 11( if you played pre abyssea) > 10 > 7 > 11(post) > rest of the series which isn’t worth discussing
>>3837891I think a good chunk of 9 sales was lost from the fact the ps2 with its fancy evolved ff10 was like at the same time A lot of steam was also lost because 8 was whatever so the ff brand had less staying power at that time than 8 did when it was riding off of 7 I think 9s aesthetics probably did less damage than you think, like obviously it was a little lame going back to knights after we finally escaped generic fantasy as the setting but it was always on a losing foot under its release conditions
>>3837662Uh i played all 3 pretty much right near each other a few years back and i don’t really care if 9 took a few extra seconds usually from camera and the nature of having another party memberIt really didn’t matter and i think this is just some lame attack on the game because you have no other valid criticism.>the gameplay is kind of badUh yeah but like all ff games gameplay is pretty bad or uninteresting at best desu. And story wise the only part i could even think i wouldn't mind removed is the bug train tunnel part Meanwhile i would happily remove a quarter of 7 and half of 8 if i could Also 8 character building is really lame, you guys act like you can make tons of crazy choices and get gear that all come together to make you extremely powerful but in reality its just abusing a really poorly implemented system to do a bunch of auto attack damage so you just boredly mash x in every encounter and actually it makes you weaker to do anything more interesting than thatI mean props for square to be bold enough to try something when they could have just reused 7 materia system and no one would have minded
>they're still arguing about sales
>>3837963If I write more words than you then it means my IQ is higher.If my IQ is higher it means I'm right.
>>3837831>can't even think of a witty replySad.
>>3837954>It really didn’t matter and i think this is just some lame attack on the game because you have no other valid criticism.I literally listed various other problems. I could list more and go in-depth but what is the point when I'm clearly dealing with fanboys here that prefer to lash out. There won't be a discussion.You yourself proved you are too biased and very clearly a fanboy of FF9.The difference between you and me is that I'm rational and not a fanboy of anything. Even the games I like I have no problems with listing tons of issues with them. Some I might not personally have a problem with or I can stomach them, but I can identify them and don't turn a blind eye to them.Your entire post has basically zero to do with what I said and you ignored almost all of it and the post prior. Just to laser focus on one thing and ramble on with logical fallacies.I say again, it would be healthier for you if you were less of an irrational fanboy.
>>3837969>Didn't say anything worth any effort more than facile mockeryOk.
I'm a "fanboy," I love this game.But I agree gameplay and story are significantly worse than VII and VIII. Materia and junctioning provided more interesting options and keep you more involved with party management. IX ultimately turns into "spam the character's one OP ability" despite there being a plethora of other options. Once you get auto-regen you basically can't die.I enjoy the atmosphere and treasure hunting / exploration but I have no delusions about the gameplay or story being as good or better than the previous 2 FFs.
>>3837068>It was Squares worst offence for "buy the guide" sidequests and puzzles.The cherry on top was that they removed all of the guide's web-content after just a few years to make room for FFXI shit.
>>3835720>Final Fantasy IX is a game you either love or hate.No, it's a game that many of its fans massively overrate. They make a lot of really retarded claims and this provokes a lot of reaction. But as a whole it's not terrible if you can get past the obnoxious characters and other downsides.>>3836163>Everything about the old school final fantasy concept is perfected and polished in 9, executed without any weak elements, even.It's everything about old school Final Fantasy turned into a tedious chore.>Unpolished, janky ATB implementationIt's not just slow, as many point out. The slowness ruins the flow of the battle as the action queue piles up. This happens only rarely in the other games.>Story-first designGameplay takes back seat to cutscenes out the wazoo. Old school FF games had about a 1:4 or 1:5 ratio of cutscenes to gameplay. For every 30-45 minutes of gameplay you'd get 5-10 minutes of cutcenes and NPC chats. Even Final Fantasy VII wasn't that bad, maybe 1:2. In FFIX it's reversed, where you finally get play a 10 minute dungeon after 45+ minutes of cutscenes and city-wandering. Add in the slowness of the battles and the gameplay ratio is even worse.This has a severe effect on the RPG growth dynamics. In old-school FF, you grow comfortable with your characters in battle, then you get an upgrade and are excited to see the difference. In FFIX, you do a bunch of chores (shopping/synthing/events/minigames) to prepare your characters for the next adventure(4 battles + 1 boss), then repeat.>Stealin previous FF games, steal would be something where a few enemies had secrets you could check for and maybe one or two rares or hard-to-get steals. In FF9, most boss fights have a non-rare but valuable item to steal, but steals are fairly low-probability. This means that every single boss fight gives you incentive to steal, and many of them result in a tedious steal pattern over and over again trying to get the good item. Chore.could go on
>>3838022Finally a sane IX fan
>>3838283>steal Why do people bitch so much about this? The game isn't particularly hard, you don't need to steal everything from every boss and you don't need zidane to do 9999 damage. While it could be better, that isn't a real negative.
>>3837068>It was Squares worst offence for "buy the guide" sidequests and puzzles.I played the whole game for the first time a couple of years ago and got near 100% without using a guide at all. The only things I missed were Excalibur II and a couple of weapons that are only available at the end of the second disc. And probably some cards, but who gives a shit about that?I'm curious which quests/puzzles you think you absolutely needed to "buy the guide" for.
>>3838294I loved the stealing, personally. I have a habit of stealing a lot in FFs anyway, so it was nice that most bosses had something worthwhile. It's not like it took a long time, anyway—I only recall one boss where the steal was stupidly rare and not worth the time.Bitching about it is weird, because it's not like the game forces you to steal. It's a completely optional mechanic, and usually the steals are just things you can buy later on. Sometimes, the things people complain about in a JRPG make it really clear that they're not looking for an interactive adventure—they just want a movie that flashes pretty colors at them and congratulates them for holding a controller.
>>3836163Also, apart from the strategy-guide stuff already mentioned, the cast is definitely NOT old school.Classic Final Fantasy might include a few silly children (or childlike) characters in the cast, but would be dominated by young adults or late teens. There would be a good mix of mature, youthful, childlike and quirky characters.In FFIX, they're all quirky/freak/childlike except for Zidane and Garnet; who are themselves the youngest protagonists in the series besides the onion kids.
>>3838318I don't see how freya fits that description. Also, vivi and eiko are literal children, so I don't see the issue.>>3838304The only FFs that MAYBE need a guide are I and II. I'm currently playing the first Zelda on NES, so seeing someone claim that FFIX of all things requires a guide is really fucking funny.
>>3838336>I don't see how freya fits that descriptionI almost called her out as the exception. She's still a freak rat-woman and doesn't have a strong influence.>vivi and eiko are literal children, so I don't see the issue.They are the issue. Whether you prefer a younger cast or not, you can't claim that the FF series was always that way.>Final Fantasy IV.12 total20yo protagonist3 kids (Rydia, Palom and Porom) Note: kids are only in your party during the first 3rd of the game.0 freaks>Final Fantasy V5 total20yo protag1 kid (Cara) Note: Cara is 14, almost as old as Garnet.0 freaks>Final Fantasy VI14 total18yo protag2 kids (Relm, Gau)3 freaks (Mog, Umaro, Gogo) Note: freaks are all bonus/hidden characters.>Final Fantasy VII9 total21yo protag0 kids2 freaks (Red XIII, Cait Sith)>Final Fantasy VIII6 total17yo protag0 kids0 freaks>Final Fantasy IX8 total16yo protag2 kids (Vivi, Eiko)3 freaks (Freya, Quina, Amarant)And Steiner plays a childlike comic relief character for most of the game.
>>3838022>"spam the character's one OP ability" despite there being a plethora of other optionsBut that's literally how ALL of the Final Fantasy games are...? *Especially* 7 and 8. Like especially those two specifically. What the fuck are you even on about?
>>3838399Good timing as I'm on the board. I knew I'd get that response.In IX characters have a set list of abilities. No matter what you do Shock will be Steiner's, Theivery Zidane's. The other games allow you to build characters into the roles you want them to be and only limit breaks were character-unique.For example you can make Aerith a blue-mage tank who spams heals, big guard, and trine - but you have to set it that way.But you're not wrong, most RPGs sadly devolve into using your strongest attacks, it's just really baked into IX.
>>3838033Play Online mandatory for a fucking guide ruined it for me when I bought it.
>>3838283Don't forget auto-regen + auto-potion being the instant win button for every fight but Ozma or status effects (most of which can be immunized), again due to ATB retardation.> Hallway Simulator AspectsI had not considered the ratio of combat to non-combat, even when the former is artificially extended.> Steal sucksSteal sucks as implemented. If Zidane always did a basic item steal while attacking, then the Steal skill did turn order shenanigans along with the expanded stealing then he would be very viable & boss battles would be easier with him stealing.>>3838304The problem is the puzzles/minigames suck, not that they're mandatory or not.>>3838317Again, the problem us it sucks not that it's optimal or non–/mandatory.>>3838393Great point about the normal/fuckable to freak, quirky, and child-like ratio. You're making novel points.
>>3838403But you didn't actually address the point, though... Your notion of "baked in" completely misses the point. It doesn't matter that Vivi's special abilities are specific to him. Whether you put those materia on Cloud or Red, it doesn't change anything about your complaint.You were complaining that you're gonna use whatever the option available to you is with that character. Yeah. That's... that's not related the name or graphics of the character.Nor does it matter whether you're the one who arranged the materia to be like that or if the character's materia were set up that way by the game's designers.What is different, though, is that 9 sets up the characters so that each character is distinct from each other, because it's a more classically-styled RPG. The mage is visibly and obviously a mage. The thief is visibly and obviously a thief. You can just look at them and know what they do and how to use them in the team.And you can't make a team that doesn't work. Whereas, in 7 or 8, you can definitely accidentally make a team that isn't capable of doing stuff.So, really, what's "baked into" 9 is legibility allowing the player to intuitively grasp how the game works and how to play. In 7 and 8, it's a random mess of "nothing means anything and you can definitely fuck up if you don't already know everything about the game".This is a concept in game design known as the "burden of knowledge".https://aetherfoxx.blogspot.com/2013/06/design-part-1-burden-of-knowledge.html
>>38384039 has even about as much customizability than 1. At least in 1 you are forced to build mages in specific ways.
>>3838431The issue I have is that characters are only minimally customizable. I'd prefer to keep each characters' roles (barring rebalances/reworks) but let you specialize if you choose.Garnet for example should have a plot point where she decides to focus on summons to protect her kingdom via MAD or White magic to heal & support it, and her skill setup should change to reflect that.Eiko has no reason to be the uber-White mage given that no one was around to teach it to her, & she still has her horn to talk to eidolons, so she should be the uber-summoner. Rather her second role (& skillset) should be either Call (free weak summon that is guaranteed to always be appropriate) or a Sing skillset that buffs party. Focus on her relationship with eidolons or the party.Steiner could lean on protective tank paladin or vengeful dark knight two hand aspects of his character & skillset, based on the choices he makes in the game.Freya should start with Jump only, and should at some point choose between dragon style breaths, lancet, & improved Jump (as is traditional for her kind) or MOX it up with Red magic.Vivi could go towards more powerful single target spells, or hit-all debuffs. Possibly also Geomancy.Quina needs % damage weapons & 100% quirky blue magic, then focus on melee & eating for combat bonuses or improved blue magic.Amarant can focus on ninja-like better offense (two weapon) or monk-like better party support, the latter with revive, debuff removal, and party heal skills.Zidane as stated should get disruption to his improved steal, basic item mug innate, and an option to focus on enemy debugging or pure damage, both of which are reflected in his story.
>>3838294>Why do people bitch so much about this?By itself, it's not a major problem, not a big gripe. It's part of the main theme of FFIX criticism which is "they somehow turned everything about the genre into a goddamn chore." Because it's a subtle problem it can take time to explain, which leaves midwits hearing nothing but a long rant.Take synthing. At first glance, a neat idea to combine items to make new items. And while a few interesting decisions may pop up occasionally, mostly it just turns into an inventory management hassle where you hoard all your old shit just in case you need it for synthing. then you spend time going to other shops buying shit you need for synth recipes.>>3838429>> Hallway Simulator Aspects>I had not considered the ratio of combat to non-combat, even when the former is artificially extended.Yeah.FFIX is definitely "hallway simulator" tier, but it's easy to see how the design priorities of IX led toward the hallway simulators X and XIII. FFIX is constantly stealing agency from the player.
>>3838429Sorry, meant to say FFIX is definitely NOT "hallways simulator" tier. (>>3838474)
>>3838477Agreed,but it's clearly a degeneration towards that from 7 to 13 with 9 as the mid way point, as you said.
>>3838403>>3838431>>3838452Lack of customization doesn't bother me much.You can still customize the party. Characters can be built differently with equipment and ability stones (not to mention other quirkier mechanics like gems increasing the power of summon magic)Personally I think people get too hung up on having customization and special snowflake characters and lose sight of their impact on the flow of an ATB battle. When half the party has simple movesets, you make many more quick and minor decisions instead of dwelling on every single move. Consider FF4. Kain's options are [Fight, Jump, Item]. When his turn comes up, you already know what you're going to do. You make a choice and move on to the next character. This simplicity it's not worthless though, because even simple choices can matter to a battle. Sometimes you might want to wait use an item or just wait a few moments. Fight and Jump have some minor tradeoffs sometimes you'll choose one or the other.>>3838452The FF series in general, with its "casual" focus, has been generally against permanent commitments to character builds. There's usually few (if any) ways to permanently lock-out abilities or growth alternatives.
>>3838482Yeah, I think VII was the turning-point. VII massively increased the volume of text and impact of cutscenes, while somehow mostly retaining the "feel" of the earlier games as far as player agency. And they wound up with a thematic justification for the oppressive linear nature in the beginning of VII (Midgar slums are miserable). And even then, the better gameplay to cutscene balance means even VII doesn't feel as constrained as IX.
>>3838452You personally want to redesign the game to not be what it is and to instead be your own vision. But you didn't make the game.That isn't a valid criticism of the game. It's someone else's work of art. Not yours. That it isn't yours is not a mark against the work of art.If you want to make art your way, no one's stopping you. Go make your own final fantasy RPGs. It's definitely possible. The tools and technology make it easier than ever before. Lots of single-dev projects have gone to completion. You can do it, anon.Show us how it's done. I believe in you...
>>3838507I would argue that no one made any kind of complicated thing in FF7 anyway. And fuck knows 8 didn't have anything complicated about it at all.What's the point of arranging materia between characters when it doesn't actually do anything? You're still not gonna cast shitty black magic spells when your auto attack does more damage. You're still gonna have everyone do the exact same commands no matter who it is specifically that does which one.9 had way more tactical depth because the balance of abilities ensured that spamming one ability just wouldn't work in every combat encounter. Sometimes you need this one to hit the target's weakness. Sometimes you need to steal to stock up on potions. Sometimes you need Zidane to kill stuff instead of stealing. Sometimes you need this immunity ability equipped or that one.It wasn't just "this guy has ten HP+ materia equipped because nothing else fucking matters" like you see in 7...
>>3838511>Yeah, I think VII was the turning-pointIt is. 7 is the major series departure and served as blueprint for every game that follows, in both good and bad ways.
>>3838547>9 had way more tactical depthEasy there. It's definitely not "way more tactical depth." Both games are fairly similar in terms of the depth and complexity of combat, though each has strengths and weaknesses.>It wasn't just "this guy has ten HP+ materia equipped because nothing else fucking matters" like you see in 7...You're not making a reasonable apples-apples comparison there, though. I'd say it's a valid criticism of FF7 that it's easy fall into using bland, hybrid builds with a little of this and a little of that. But there's more depth there than you think especially when you pay attention to equipment choices and stat modifications, and account for materia scarcity on a typical un-optimized playthrough.It's also just not true to say that spamming one ability always works in FF7. It's certainly not always the best alternative, although there are some unbalanced/OP abilities (especially on the Enemy Skill materia). Like any FF game, enemies have a wide array of attacks and defenses and those influence player decision-making both before and during combat.
>>3838559>7 is the major series departureThe interesting thing is that the game itself wasn't actually a major departure in structure and gameplay. 7 is fundamentally faithful to the series' core design principles, despite the massive increase in spectacle, storytelling volume and minigames. It was 8 and especially 9 that began losing sight of the core principles in favor of the spectacle, storytelling, and busywork.
>>3838507Gameplay nihilism is ugly. Why not just stare at the wall & hallucinate if you don't want to engage with systems, or if you're such a snotball that you have to denigrate others tastes in their thread?I have more respect for Vegh Esther than you.>>3838511>while somehow mostly retaining the "feel" of the earlier games as far as player agencyThe game values your time.>>3838542I'm just talking. Discussions like this are how I arrive a better gameplay in mods or games. It feels like your post is an AI text generated to be attack the core assumptions I have in engaging here in a deeply negative manner while being superficially positive & polite.>>3838563A variety of builds is a difficulty setting. You aren't forced to spam attack.>>38385713D dilates time, which is why 3D games need tighter pacing.
unbelievable number of bot posts in this thread especially every single one made by this thing >>3838593silence clanker
>>3838593>3D dilates timeyeah you're dilating all right
>>3838604Typed like a filthy swarth. If you were in FF9 my wife Eiko would scream & summon an eidolon to enslave you.>>3838606My genitals are intact. However your anal sphincter is leaking after the ravaging I gave it.
>>3838571>7 is fundamentally faithful to the series' core design principles, despite the massive increase in spectacle, storytelling volume and minigames. It was 8 and especially 9 that began losing sight of the core principles in favor of the spectacle, storytelling, and busywork.If you think of both 8 and 9 as follow ups to 7, 8 is "push the experiment even further", 9 is "stay in the nostalgic safe ground".8 was probably better received because it was looking forward in its setting, it was a new-style game in a new setting so the player didn't have so many preconceptions about how things should be, where 9 had an uncomfortable juxtaposition to it because the setting was pushing nostalgia but the game itself was trying to be avant-garde.To try put it another way, 9 shares traits with Dirge of Cerberus - " not the best use of the Final Fantasy universe".
>>3838684>juxtaposition*EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER*
>>3838684What's your opinion of each of the expanded universe FF7 games? Before Crisis and parts of Crisis Core looked pretty cool.
It’s impressive what kind of garbage takes retards itt are coming up with to explain why they don’t like this game
>>3835720i would respond but i'm unfortunately waiting for the random encounter battle to finish
>>3838892I do a battle speed boost on top of the 3x main speed boost. I've beaten it 2x on original hardware before, and it's a much better game sped-up. You can spin that as a negative, but it works for me.
>>3838858every thread about ff9 is like this. you'd swear nobody's ever actually played this game
>>3838858>It’s impressive what kind of garbage takes retards itt are coming up with to explain why they don’t like this gameYou think that because you're retarded. If someone says they don't like the game and doesn't justify it you freak out because you can't argue their reasoning and if they do give a reason you can't accept the fact that something you consider inconsequential is enough to put somebody else off.The problem is on your end.
>>3838896Well, most of them haven't. They weren't born yet when it came out and it isn't in their app store. They literally do not know that they shouldn't pretend to know about things they have no experience with. That's just not how their generation works. It's over. The human experiment is ending. As a failure.
>>3838858If you can like a game for its secondary aspectsthen you can also dislike a game for its secondary aspects
>>3838917>You think that because you're retarded.Correct.Doubly true given that people have even stated they don't hate the game, they just have criticisms of it.
>>3838946As one of the major critics of the game, you weren't even born when I started playing Final Fantasy. That's why bullshit like "FF9 went back to its roots after the departures in 7 and 8" doesn't work on me. Because I experienced the roots and know what the differences are.
I've realized that a major problem (possibly the principal problem) of attempting to discuss FF on this board is not only that there's a ton of youngsters who weren't around when the games came out, but most didn't even play the original versions at all. I'd wager that most of this board played the sundry ports/remakes/etc on different platforms, with all kinds of shit added, removed, or changed, which makes them difficult to discuss.
>>3839023I don't think that's a problem for most games since a lot of that stuff is self-contained and/or easily ignored. The first four get fucked over by it, but the rest not so much.
>>3839023I think it’s the opposite. FF fanbase is on the older side. Everyone already made up their mind how they feel about these games 20 years ago and no debate here is going to change anyone’s mind anymore.
>>3835720I'm honestly just glad they fixed the mistake of 8.
>>3839023>I'd wager that most of this board played the sundry ports/remakes/etc on different platforms, with all kinds of shit added, removed, or changed, which makes them difficult to discuss.Doesn't matter, the core gameplay and story of most of remasters remains unchanged. Unless you're talking about FFVII fans who only played the remake, which is a different game altogether.
>>3839268>no debate here is going to change anyone’s mind>anymoreit never was. i'm never going to stop liking the games i like because some retard on the internet jumped up and down and screamed "BUT THE LOAD TIMES ARE LONG BUT THE BATTLES ARE EASY BUT I DON'T LIKE IT SO YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER" lol
>>3839288As long as your opinion isn't something retarded like supporting the draw system in FF8 over the much more sensible use of MP, we can be friends forever.
>>3839288The only time people are going to jump on you for liking a game when you claim it's the best game ever
>>3839293or when the game you like threatens other game's claim as the best game ever
>>3839295If you can prove it properly then why not?
>>3839300The entire problem is when anons attempt to frame their subjective personal opinions as objective universal facts. It’s just inviting autism wars.
>>3839272You like 9, and that's good.I will always prefer 8, and that's not bad.You can never change my mind, that's fact.
>>3839300>it is possible to "prove" a game is the best game everthis is the kind of shit im talking about dude>>3839291ff8's not really for me but not because of that
>>3839300Because taste is subjective and it's retarded to try and argue that your taste is superior to another.
>>3839306Why do you hate FF8 if it ain't for the innane magic system?Is it the bullshit anime plot that ruins what could have been a kino magic commando story?
>>3839312Nowhere did he say he hates it. I find it hard to believe your reading comprehension really that bad. Are you so insecure about your feelings over FF9 that you can't face any criticisms. By attempting to deflect you may think you're doing yourself a service but it won't stop that nagging feeling in the pit of your stomach that FF9 isn't perfect. And until you face that fact your dysphoria will persist.At this point you're basically the FF8Schizo of 9.
>>3839302No, that's not the problem. The problem is people who aren't capable of processing criticism intelligently and making intelligent responses clogging up internet forums with bliss ninny platitudes.>>3839309In reality, people often have shared values and the point of criticism is to establish a reasonable shared common ground as a standard then argue how the game measures up to that standard. And hopefully, in the process, you learn something about quality standards and how other people think. Sometimes you'll find irreconcilable differences in subjective standards (many love the freakazoid cast of FF9), other times maybe you'll notice something didn't notice before (eg a clogged up ATB queue) and recognize a valid critique even if you still like the game.
>>3839309taste is of course subjective, but why do they have to impose your taste to someone else ?
>>3839306>it is possible to "prove" a game is the best game everIt is, but you also don't have to treat it as a fact. Salt everything
>>3835720Love it. I can acknowledge it has a few legit flaws like battle speed and a few I consider to be stupid complaints but come down to opinion like cast design but I think it's positives are great.
>>3839291I'm fine with spell ammo even if it's grossly OP.
>>3839300You can’t. There is no objective measure for this. Completely pointless to even try.
>>3839344>i create the objective standards of quality by which games should be judged and you will obey them and nod when i tell you my complaintsno, i don't think i will. you can go "BUT I DON'T LIKE HOW THE BATTLES ARE" and i'll just nod and gently sweep you out the door and continue ignoring you. i don't care that they're "OBJECTIVELY HECKIN' BAD." that's an attitude for people who don't like video games. reddit might be more your speed.
the truth as to why video games will never be treated as art is actually very simple: it is because gamers do not understand the idea of subjectivity. they go "thing function in way that me not like. 1/10. bad video game." and try to argue which children's toy is closer to their vision of what is closest to being objectively the "correct way to make a video game" and any deviation takes points off of that. and also you're all retarded and gay, full offense.
>>3839474You can. You are just being obstuse and hopelessly pessimistic.
>>3839482>also you're all retarded and gay, full offense.we know you don't want any discussion in the first place with that kind of snobbish, know-it-all attitude.
>>3839489No you can’t. What you consider objective is a collective set of subjective values and standards and those are ever changing. Opinions can sour over something that was once considered great and vice versa. Look at how games like Gears of War and MGS3 were considered cream of the crop two decades back and now being received as just “decent” games by the definition of today’s standards despite releasing in a mostly unaltered format.
>>3839496Yes opinions can sour and age wrongly, who is even saying that they are going to be 100% factually correct in the first place?The
>>3839501*ignore The, I guess
>>3839482Pretty sure there's billions of snobby art critics as well.
>>3839501>Thewhat did anon mean by this
>>3839481>i create the objective standards of quality by which games should be judged and you will obey them and nod when i tell you my complaintsGood job missing the point.This board is embarrassingly stupid and childish.
>>3839530Objectively speaking, video games are a luxury consumer good, so, objectively speaking, the only way you can judge them is by how much revenue they generated.Sure, you can try throw in some subjective arguments about how the market perceived them, but if you can part a fool from their money using an inferior product, that's a win.
>>3839544>t. binary-brain.You still can't grasp the simple concept of shared standards or see any value in understanding standards that aren't your own. You're basically subhuman and there's no point to you even participating in discussions about videogames or anything else that involve standards of quality.
>>3839549You're either mixing me up with the other guy you're arguing with or you don't understand the concepts you're talking about. Understanding shared concepts and the standards of others towards a product isn't necessary to determining ones own standards. Standards are subjective by nature, even objective standards (mind=blown!). You can use shared standards to judge a product but it's still a subjective opinion, if you're going to judge it objectively you need to look at the nature of the product and how it achieved it's intended goal, which being a consumer product, is revenue.Too many arguments prevail because people cannot accept that standards and opinions are not facts, to judge objectively you need to look at the purpose. Games are designed to sell, race cars go fast. Where it is necessary to understand standards is when one is creating a product, for market appeal you need to appeal to the reasonable person - or the divergent, depending on your intended audience.Objectively 9 didn't sell as well as 7 and 8, but that doesn't mean it's a bad game in the eyes of the beholder.
>>3839544>video games are a luxury consumer good, so, objectively speaking, the only way you can judge them is by how much revenue they generated.Retards probably think this sounds remotely right
>>3839563>You can use shared standards to judge a product but it's still a subjective opinionPeople argue over those standards and judgments. Arguments are supposed to happen. That's what /vrpg/ is for. The problem is retards who don't know how to argue properly and people like you who clog up discussion with stupefying tautologies and vagueries.>you need to look at the purpose. Games are designed to sell, race cars go fast.Race cars are also designed to sell. They sell by being designed to go fast.Games are made to be fun and sell because they are fun.Every genre, brand, and franchise targets a different niche.Expectations and standards are established, players judge games against those standards.Final Fantasy is a series of RPGs, designed to appeal to a youthful, casual RPG audience.FF has 4 primary foci:- Alternate-world exploration- Numbers-driven combat- Character building and development- Narrative storytellingAccomplished with 4 main systems:- World Map- Field Map- Combat system- Character/class systemThe world map is for modeling the world, to simulate journeying through wilderness and exploring unknown lands.The field map is for modeling cities, dungeons and other points of interest-- places to explore in more detail than the overworld. Story cutscenes usually happen on the field map.Wilderness and dungeon areas add danger and challenge primarily through numerous combat events.The combat system uses a "1D" wizardry-style engine which is abstract and completely separate from the world and field map systems.These systems are all linked through the character system, which defines the RPG-style units managed by the player and serve as the reference point of view for exploration, combat, and narration.I've spoonfed you the basics. Normal people don't need this. They understand the context implicitly and can debate on obviously implied standards and purposes. You apparently don't, so need lessons on painfully elementary shit.
>>3839589>People argue over those standards and judgments. Arguments are supposed to happen. That's what /vrpg/ is for.I know you're retarded but it really is sad that the internet is now defined only by fighting with people you disagree with
>>3839591>internet is now defined only by fighting with people you disagree with>is nowfucking kekIf what you want to do is socialize, you should try touching grass.
>>3839589Stop feeding the tr... olls. Soon they will all be locked up due to insanity.
>>3839597Like I said, I know you're retarded already
>>3839600The sooner the better
General Beatrix
>>3839612Beatrix & Lani best girls.
>>3839589>Games are made to be fun and sell because they are fun.So, the essence of what you're saying is:The best way to determine how fun a game is - on a larger more objective scale - is by how well it sold.Which brings us right back to what I was saying, everything else is subjective.>[Normal people] understand the context implicitly and can debate on obviously implied standards and purposes. Only they don't, they take subjective opinions and treat it like objective fact. Which is why they argue instead of debate.Look at this thread, every time we try to discuss perceived flaws in 9 we have an insecure troll bringing up 8 in an attempt to derail the discussion.
>>3839302If I were the janny, I would word filter “objectively” to “subjectively”. Objectively speaking, this would improve the boards quality by 35%.
>>3839653>insecure trollHuh, so you're saying Harry Potter is better than MGS, Tomb Raider, or Crash - and Minecraft and Wii Sports are better than what you like? That's nice, sweaty.
>>3839605bad face>>3839612nice art
>>3839653Do you waste time posting here because your parents disowned you?
>>3835720I thought it had good writing as a teenager. But after I replayed it recently I realized that it was hard carried by the amazing music. Everything else is just decent unfortunately.
>>3839714If you didn't play it in Japanese then you got some fanfic writing.
>>3839672>so you're saying Harry Potter is better than MGS, Tomb Raider, or Crash - and Minecraft and Wii Sports are better than what you likeAnd just like that, you're trying to swap a subjective opinion with an objective assessment.Personally, I preferred Potter to Tomb Raider, I recognize that's probably not the answer you want to hear but I probably have more fond memories with Potter than I do Croft, and my strongest memory for MGS on the original console was spending several hours hunting for Meryl's code only to realize it was on the back of the literal case when I was putting it away for the night. That and entering and exiting the ventilation shaft repeatedly to perv on her exercising.Gran Turismo deserves the No.1 spot in my opinion.
>>3839714It does have one of the best soundtracks in the whole series.
>>3836552https://youtu.be/jdCECcW62Rk?feature=shared&t=196 See for yourself
>>3839471Spell ammo's fine but having to spam draw to get it is annoying. Vancian is superior to the draw system, even.
>>3839490>>3839510how many stars out of five would you give the mona lisa and how does it rank compared to the sistine chapel?personally i think the mona lisa is like a 2/5 at best, everyone's asking why this bitch is smiling when they're missing the way more important question: why does this retard artist not know what color the sky is? yellow/green? and that's not even mentioning how small it is. like come on, you're a famous big budget artist, you can afford a bigger canvas, i'd rather look at a much bigger picture like roy lichtenstein's "WHAAM!" sure it's just someone else's art but blown up to be large, but think about it, this is a modern audience and we deserve a bigger image. 5/5.and personally i've always felt that the creation of man showed an embarrassing over adherence to religion. it's like, stop depicting the church that way dude. that's also getting a 2/5 from me.but anyway most importantly is that we have digital art now. it's time to stop looking at all these old "masterpieces" like guernica and embrace modern technology. type "waifuname masterpiece style beautiful style painting gorgeous huge boobs pregnant" and watch the magic happen. 5/5.
>>3839802>and personally i've always felt that the creation of man showed an embarrassing over adherence to religion.Stopped reading here
>>3839802>thinking religion is badThe world has basically gone to shit since man abandoned religion.
>>3839813>The world has basically gone to shit since man abandoned religion.Only midwits fail to recognize this obvious truth.
>>3839814Sadly, people think they're smarter than what worked when a small cut could literally kill you.Modern 'every man for himself' ideology would literally have died out before we invented writing.
>>3835982I want to like 12, but every time I've ever tried to play it there's one thing that drives me insane within 30 minutes: the constant movement stutters caused by the animation of sheathing and unsheathing your weapons upon entering and leaving combat.
>>3839813>>3839814there are still billions of religious people and things are shit for them, too. in fact places like the US were only created because people thought religion was making everything shitty so they fucked off to somewhere else and established an explicitly non-theocratic state that then went on to become the next world empire.basically everything has always been shit and we only think it was good through rose tinted glasses, and this is the obvious truth that only midwits fail to realize.
>>3839826Nah, things were great for America up until very recently, as secularism rose.A man could make a living and own a house on a minimum wage job until the last couple of generations. The worship of the dollar over God has led to this.
>>3839832>The worship of the dollar over God has led to this.No, there's a direct correlation between the number of Cheetos produced yearly and American enshittification. That's the real culprit, don't you see?!Anyway I can't believe you faggots are this mad because some people do or don't enjoy a video game. Shameful display.
>>3839834Final Fantasy 8 is a bad game.Final Fantasy 9 is just good. Anyone who hates it is a faggot, anyone who sucks its dick is a faggot.Any questions?
>>3839482Games are superior to art, and far more important to life and society. Only pseuds disagree.
>>3839835>Any questions?I have a question. If 8 is bad and 9 is good why do the majority prefer 8?
>>3839813>>3839814>>3839832Obvious oversimplification here but the truth is that as Christianity declined, other religions and pseudo-religions crept in to fill the void, and many of these are bad. First it was just hedonistic consumerism, but then came Western Marxism(Feminism, SJWs, Woke, LGBT+, etc) and Islam.That's what the culture war has been all about. It's bad actors fighting to capture religious impulses through popular culture like videogames and movies. With no preachers and religion, many people get their moral beliefs from media.For the record: fuck Islam and the pedo mods on /lit/ with no backbone or sense of humor
>>3839851They don't. 8 just had inflated sales because it came out so soon after 7.
>>3839802Please post more arrogant and assholish drivel like this, I could use the entertainment. Too many people on here are merely pretending to be retards, but you my good faggot, are the real deal.
>>3839857ill admit im being an asshole but it's pretty clear that the only reason you're so upset is because i've struck a nerve. this could be a great opportunity for you to reevaluate why you find it necessary to assign point values to video games, and why you feel a need to compare one game to another instead of taking them as they are, and why you think you could "objectively prove" that a game is "bad" and thus convince somebody to stop liking it, or you could continue doing all of the above forever.
>>3839804>>3839813this isn't a christfag websitego back to facebook
>very comfy game>everyone gets upsetvery strange
>>3839802Your satire brings all the chuds to the yard.
>>3835720Im in bothLove the music, story, characters, setpiecesHate the gameplay and the card minigame
>>3840037Oh I also hate the chocobo hot and cold shit
>>3839835I enjoy the gameplay of 8 much more
>>3840002Source?
When kuja capttures you the game kinda goes to shit for 10 hours
>>3835720>Final Fantasy IX is a game you either love or hate.Is it really? I think people who would hate FFIX are people who don't like JRPGs to begin with. Personally I like it a lot but it's not on my FF top 5.
>>3835720Its almost unplayable because of how slow the combat is even for ATB standardsI wish the remake was real
>>3840055Likely was at some stage, doesnt end up in 2 databases for no reason
>>3839854If that was true you would expect sales to decrease with each iteration from 11 but it's the opposite.
>>38400741. Different factors come into play for each release. It's not a fucking universal exclusive theory of explaining game sales. God damn this board is impressively retarded.2. Just wrong. FF sales have declined gradually over time. VII and X remain the best-selling games in the franchise. FF7 was a uniquely impactful game and FF8 was an obvious evolution clearly intended to appeal to people who liked FF7. The relationship is obvious. So people bought FF8 based mostly on the success of FF7.By the mid-late PS2 era, much had changed. From 1985 to 2001, Final Fantasy's brand was "formula JRPG with good music, storytelling and aesthetics." From roughly 2005 onward, Final Fantasy meant "biggest-budget spectacle-oriented megaproject from Square-Enix." People didn't look at FFXIII and see the next iteration of FFXII. They saw the next big-budget Square-Enix RPG and evaluated it on promotional material and the general reputation of the brand name itself.Meanwhile, FF11 wasn't relevant at all in terms of brand-building. FF11 is pure brand exploitation. FF11 didn't introduce anyone to the franchise, FF11 introduced the franchise fans to MMORPGs.
this is the objective top 5 Final Fantasy list>#1 - Final Fantasy IX>#2 - Final Fantasy X>#3 - Final Fantasy VIII>#4 - Final Fantasy VII>#5 - Final Fantasy VII: Crisis CoreI would play X-2 over anything XII and later, at least I get to visit Spira again despite some of the cringe the game has to offer
>>3840189>objective top 5Stopped reading here
>>3840145>>3840074Oh, I forgot about XI because its too different to really compare to the offline FF's. Final Fantasy XI (pre abyssea) is the greatest single game of all time. I still play it today on a private server
>>3840191you didn't stop reading though, anon. You must agree with my list based purely on nostalgia because I said it was objective
>>3840194It’s irrelevant whether or not I agree with whatever opinions you wrote. Framing your subjective opinions as “objective” marks you as a retard, and hence summarily discarded.
>>3840196>hurr durr I called someone a retard on 4chan today momliterally kill yourself, live stream your suicide you autistic faggot
>>3840198You have to be 18 to post here.
>>3840199you are clearly autistic. You already knew this, but just know that I know too.
>>3840200If being capable of differentiating between my personal subjective opinions, and objective reality, makes me autistic, then yes anon, I have a touch of the ‘tism. Such is life.
>>3840204No, its your inability to grasp that I was obviously being sarcastic, especially with my follow-up comment about how my list was purely based on nostalgia. You don't strike me as low IQ, so autism must be the culprit. I was also not serious about you killing yourself, fyi.
>>3840205He's a dumb troll. Was posting stupid shit about objectivity way up in the thread.
>>3840205>obviously being sarcasticIs this where you pull the "hurr you guys I was only pretending to be retarded, joke's on you" card?>>3840206>He's a dumb troll. Was posting stupid shit about objectivity way up in the thread.Quote 'em, I'll tell you if they were me or not.
>>3840145>FF7 was a uniquely impactful game and FF8 was an obvious evolution clearly intended to appeal to people who liked FF7. The relationship is obvious. So people bought FF8 based mostly on the success of FF7.Karmic copes of wakanda kekman. If people brought 8 because it was intended for people who liked 7 and 9 was intended for people who liked earlier titles then blaming 9's poor sales on 8 is a load of tripe.The real tell that 9 was poorly received by its own merits is how it failed to sustain sales after release. But that's another cope for abother time.
>>3840226>Is this where you pull the "hurr you guys I was only pretending to be retarded, joke's on you" card?you have autism in one of its purest forms. I'm in awe.
>>3840283Not everyone who likes 9 is retarded.Just the majority.
>>3835720It's a fine swan song to FF, but I don't love it that hard.
>>3840226>Is this where you pull the "hurr you guys I was only pretending to be retarded, joke's on you" card?That's the same little kid who's been shitposting all over this board and /tg/. The writing style sheltered-Christian-maladapted-socially-isolated-autistic kid behavior is the dead giveaway. He's slightly older than the one who can't capitalize or punctuate but they have identical backgrounds.
>>3840500most people agree that installments 7-10 are the heart and soul of the franchise. Everything that comes after is riding the coattails of the cultish following the series garnered after the big 4. The only reason 9 suffered a bit was because the large fanbase the series had accrued at that point were mostly 7 fanboys, and 9 was an obvious departure from that aesthetic. The other main reason is that the PS2 and FF 10 came out like a year later, giving it no room to be the latest FF for long. 9 is an incredible adventure nonetheless and was a huge part of my childhood. Seethe.
>>3840245I'm just explaining basic things, you seem to be hallucinating arguments that aren't even there.
>>3840525The heart and soul of FF is 4-9
>>3840505>The writing style sheltered-Christian-maladapted-socially-isolated-autistic kid behaviorEvery Christian kid I knew growing up was healthy, tall, fit, & outgoing.
Did you know?FFIX released 4 months after the PS2 did in Japan?>>3840571That's nice.
>>3840525I don't really object to your sentiment but there's a couple of things you're glancing over. >The only reason 9 suffered a bit was because the large fanbase the series had accrued at that point were mostly 7 [AND 8] fanboys, and 9 was an obvious departure from that aesthetic.FF7 may have been helped 8 (and 9) sell but 8 still stood on its own merits. People like to hate on 8 but it was primarily the change in aesthetics of 9 that held it back. >The other main reason is that the PS2 and FF 10 came out like a year later, giving it no room to be the latest FF for long.FF10 maybe, but not so much the PS2 itself, it was backwards compatible and there was still a significant market for PS1 games over a year later.9's aesthetics were its biggest holdback, the market simply wasn't interested. The next biggest holdback was FFX but that doesn't explain why 9 didn't see the same level of sales in the interim as the previous 2 titles. There was a conscious decision by the market to not pursue 9. And unfortunately that's down to the aesthetics of 9, the market is shallow. 9 primarily has itself to blame for the, still impressive but, lackluster sales compared to the previous 2 titles.Shifting that blame to 8 and the PS2 is a fantasy.
>>3840591>9's aesthetics were its biggest holdbackThat was a big part of it, especially in the west. Presumably, many people who only had played ("cyberpunk" broody military vibe) VII and VIII as teens were not too happy with the fairytale look of IX (I liked it). In a way like how people were disappointed by Wind Waker's tone and style.
>>3840591Of course, it's a more unique and playful visual style, it's going to be hit or miss. Especially for that era it was poor timing with the more "edgy" style being popular.A game like FF9 seems to do a bit better in the modern day, managing to rake in 3 million extra sales since it got its Switch port, despite minimal hype or marketing effort. Wish they had the balls to do something like it with FF17 instead of going the expected route.
>>3840597The tragedy of teenagers, really. They wanted to be oh-so-grown-up. Far too mature and adult to bother with fairy tales and fantasies...Even though 9 had, by far, a more sophisticated and mature story to tell than 7 or 8 did. By comparison, 7 and 8 were anime for small children: melodramatic bullshit revolving around "oooh, What if the girl likes Cloud...??? Does she? Does the other girl like Cloud???? What if they both like Cloud?! Oh my god! Which one? The one with big boobs or the manic pixie dream girl?! Oh no, the super cool guy with the huuuuuge sword and trenchcoat is gonna destroy the world! Oh man, we gotta stop him!" And 8 was basically exactly the same plot, except instead of a clown with terribad '90s edgelord hair and trenchcoat, there was alien sorceress that you have absolutely ZERO personal relationship with. At least Sephiroth you might develop a kind of mild vendetta against since he taunts you periodically and kills your parasocial girlfriend.So, when 9 came along and was like you're actually personally directly involved in complicated international politics, war crimes and magical intrigue, oh and you have to directly confront existential questions about identity and familial relationships... well, children can't really grasp big, complicated ideas like that. Instead, the kids saw characters stylized as fairy tale creatures and thought the game was mocking them as juvenile. It wasn't. But children are sensitive about their childhood.I can't fucking stand even a single uninterrupted minute of the GARBAGE anime dialogue and cartoony reactions in 7 or 8. Edgelord says what?! OH! AH! NOOOOO! CLOUUUUDDDD!!! GASP! WAIT! AHHHH! And 8 took all of that and added the most insufferable dumbass high schoolers above and beyond mortal endurance.Fucking spare me.Cringe character design?! Look at the characters in 8 and tell me you can't fucking SMELL the '90s through your screen.
>>3840627It's too late for Final Fantasy to return to its roots anymore. They need to fucking end the franchise before we get to the point where Deus Ex turns out to have been prophetic. Remember that poster on the wall advertising Final Fantasy umpteen and the story is set in like 2100?
>>3840632>Cringe character design?! Look at the characters in 8 and tell me you can't fucking SMELL the '90s through your screen.Look at the characters in 9 and tell me you wouldn't be surprised if all but one of them was arrested, charged and found guilty of offenses against a minor in the toilets of a convention center.I'll leave you figure which one is innocent. Hint. It's not the one you're thinking of.
>>3840643In a fraction expressed as hours per day, how much of your time would you admit to spending fantasizing about molesting minors in toilets at conventions? 12? 16 out of 24? Or do you let it cut into your sleep cycle? Because literally no one else is gonna agree with you about this, but furthermore that was SUCH a fucking specific and detailed scenario you laid out there...
>>3840591You vastly under-estimate the relevance of word of mouth. Average players don't necessarily offer robust analytical critiques, but peers can still detect relative enthusiasm (or lack thereof). FF9 just didn't spark joy at the same rate as FF7 (or FF10).
>>3840669>that was SUCH a fucking specific and detailed scenario you laid out thereYou can look up the story in your own time.
>>3840597>>3840591Also, it's not just the "aesthetics" or "fairytale feel." There's also specifically what the art was depicting. See: >>3838393FF7 looks like it features young adults.FF8 looks like it features young adults (despite being technically teens)FF9 looks like it features children and furries.The age of the protagonist is not aesthetic. When the target age range of FF is preteen and teenage boys, this makes a difference.
>>3840677To this day that 9 out of 10 times comes down to "I didn't like the art style", so that anon's statements holds up anyway.
>>3840632>Even though 9 had, by far, a more sophisticated and mature story to tell than 7No, it really didn't.Steiner for example, is comically, implausibly immature. Only children can take his arc seriously.Vivi is really cheap sentimentality.Garnet's arc where she copes with burden and responsibility of becoming a queen is the only storyline in FF9 that comes close to the maturity of FF7. And unsurprisingly it's one that most FF9 fans seem to hate.
>>38406831. not even true (people bitch about all kinds of things)2. sometimes you have to read the subtext of what people say.For example if you asked me back in 2000 what I thought about FF9, I'd have said something like "Not really enjoying the combat, I guess I'm just bored of ATB battle systems and don't enjoy them anymore." There might even be a comment of me saying that on some ancient message board in the internet wayback machine.But, in fact, it's far more likely that it was the slow/jankiness of the ATB system itself that was bothering me subconsciously. It wasn't that I was bored of ATB, it was that FF9 had a shitty implementation of ATB that was tedious to play.
>>3840683>>3840689Why can't you both be right?Shitty aesthetics + shitty gameplay = shitty sales.I'll let you two get back to debating which of the two was more shitty but that doesn't magically make either aspect any less shitty.
>>3840684>Vivi is really cheap sentimentality.Vivi's existential crisis is actually quite deep, especially when you later find that Zidane is essentially facing the same dilemma. That the villain basically goes insane upon finding he was created to be exactly what he scoffed at black mages being was icing on the cake. The entire plot revolves around existence, worth, and purpose. I've played the game as an adult and it definitely carries some emotional weight in this regard, things I overlooked as a child. Its really not as comfy of a game as the artwork would suggest it to be, and perhaps that was done on purpose.
>>3840726>I've played the game as an adult and it definitely carries some emotional weight in this regard, things I overlooked as a childI also went back and replayed 1-10 as an adult. FF8's ending cinematic with the hot dogs literally carries more emotional weight than all of FF9's slop, much less something with real emotional punch, like FF10.
>>3840684You're really telling on yourself there. Even if I wrote your comment for you, I couldn't do it quite so on-the-nose. It'd just be too unbelievable.How about you wait till you're old enough to drink and then you play the game and think about it.And be quiet until then, kiddo.
>>3835720Unironically, any game that returned to the God inspired system of using MP instead of spamming Draw like fifty times would have been better than FF8, which had the BEST concept (magical commandos was based). I don't know who came up with the inferior subhuman draw system, but if I had a time machine, I would skip stopping the Holocaust and instead beat the man who pitched the idea of defying MP to death in front of the other Japs in that pitch meeting and said to them, "if you don't do MP for the rest of your games for eternity, MacArthur's descendants will firebomb you twice as hard as he did."
>>3840680You don't think they were making efforts to include girls as a target audience? 9 is definitely far more gender-neutral / gender-inclusive coded than 7 or 8 were. Freya took the "strong stoic loner" spot normally reserved for "cool guy" males. Garnet's struggle against her mother's power and with her own "destiny" as a literal princess was a profoundly girl-coded plot. Eiko served as a great foil for Garnet's burgeoning maturity: by presenting an actual little girl with the affectations, mannerisms and behavior of childhood to actually show how Garnet has grown up in many ways compared to how she started the game - as a reckless and rebellious teenager sneaking out of the house to adventure with ne'erdowell boys.While the boys of the target audience just saw a silly princess rescue mission, the girls of the target audience saw an extremely classic "puppy love romance and ill-advised elopement" plot which is far more common as a cautionary tale in girls' media.In fact, women and girls dominate the major plot points all the way until you get to Kuja's palace: Beatrix, Garnet, Queen Brahne are the focal point of the entire war plot in the first part of the game. Eiko turns out to be a summoner revealing so much of Garnet's nature. Freya's search for Fratley and failed defense of her besieged home are the turning point of the entire plot when the magnitude of the threat is shown and the villain pulling the strings is revealed. Even Cid's wife who isn't really shown much had a huge impact on the plot because she punished her husband, by humiliating him in a way that cripples his ability to help resolve the conflicts that sent you to Lindblum in the first place. If it hadn't been for that curse, half of the game's plot wouldn't have happened.9 is definitely designed with the gaze of both boys and girls in the audience in mind.
>>3840762Then you should go back in time to murder Jack Vance, because he, via Gygax, is the ultimate cause of the problem.
>>3840767Vancian has nothing to do with draw system (no matter how much you pray to Allah/how many sacrifices you make to Satan, if you have five spell slots, you get five casts).You are correct that beheading Vance on live television would have been pretty based.
>>3840765FF9 would have been better with a Dark Crystal aesthetic.Nostalgia is adult coded. Adults in college love Pokémon, kids in middle school love competitive shooter games.
>>3840769The draw system is not pure Vancian, but the notion of stocking up on expendable castings of specific spells is definitely inspired by Vancian. You can't use your Cure castings to cast Cura, not even at any exchange rate. They aren't fungible.FF1 had strict pure Vancian mechanics, by the way, so it's not like 8's homage to Vancian magic is unusual. It's been there from the beginning. FF1 was literally D&D...
>>3840784I meannnnn.... FF9 **IS** Dark Crystal aesthetic.
>>3840711>Why can't you both be right?Because one guy is asserting it's primarily (9 out of 10) aesthetics, which contradicts your claim. The other guy's refutation does not contradict your claim and works with any number of other simultaneously valid reasons for not liking the game.
>>3840726I already felt Vivi's sentimentality as a kid; however it became shallow once I reached adulthood.
>>3840684If you had to make petty insults and generalize for no reason, why would anyone care about your argument seriously?
>>3840853Sorry I replied the wrong person, meant for this guy >>3840632
>>3840853Because it's true.
>>3840855Ah that makes sense
>>3840726>That the villain basically goes insane upon finding he was created to be exactly what he scoffed at black mages beingDamn, you're retarded.
>>3840866So you didn't even actually play the game? Kind of funny you'd just admit it like that. Right out in the fucking open like that. Damn.
Why did mist only exist on the starting continent at the beginning of the game? Why not everywhere?
just post the sex rats toes already.
>>3841483Great majority of Gaia’s civilizations settled on the mist continent. Garland uses the mist to incite wars, so makes the most sense to spread it there.
>people who play jarpigs sperging out bcuz their attention span can't tolerate waiting a few seconds for a battle to startpottery. fucking unbelievable pottery. This thread is full of the kind of people who click on YouTube Shorts and have to keep spamming the "replay" button because they couldn't pay attention to 30 full seconds of clickbait the first time around.
>>3840530thisthat awful Voice Acting killed the comfiness and sovl
>>3840597this is slightly off-topic, but no one would have cared about Windwaker's art direction if the game actually had more than two dungeons and the entire ocean wasn't mostly empty.I like FF9 but I don't think the art is really the problem, I think railroad jrpg fatigue and long-ass cutscene fatigue had set in by then, and 9 does both of those worse than 7 and 8. 9 literally chooses your party members for you the first 75% of the game and it never has any open world exploration until the end, when you've already been everywhere anyway. Even 7 let you wander around a bit post-Midgar. People just blame the art but the truth is 9 was released when PC gaming was coming into its own, and open world games like MM6 and EverQuest shone a spotlight on how stale and restrictive the jrpg formula was.
>>3841539>waiting a few seconds for a battle to startPeople who don't know math are complaining about matters connected to numbers.Pottery.There is a thing called multiplication.
>>3841539Is "pottery" some kind of Zoomer / Alpha brainrot slang I'm too old to already be familiar with because I don't have trashy teenage streamers blaring from my phone 24/7?I need help. Someone please explain this shit for me. Seriously.
>>3841727It’s a 4chins thing. Pottery = poetry, it rhymes, it’s sublime, it’s fitting and appropriate.
>>3841736Yeah...Skibidi Ohio toilet rizzler no cap frfr on god yeet. Gnarly. Tubular. Radical. Far out, man.
>>3841539Bait post.Kill yourself, retard.
its ok. Kind of falls apart at the end
its bad. But the ending is kind of great
>>3840726>Vivi's existential crisis is actually quite deep, especially when you later find that Zidane is essentially facing the same dilemma.We're all facing the same dilemma you fucking retard. That's the point. Regardless of specifics, we're all beings with finite lifespans who need to decide the purpose of our own existence, and not let our fear of our own mortality define us or hold us back.
>>3841542>this is slightly off-topic, but no one would have cared about Windwaker's art direction if the game actually had more than two dungeons and the entire ocean wasn't mostly empty.Except the loudest complaints about the art direction came before the game was even released, you fucking retard. Nowadays, Wind Waker's graphics are typically upheld as one of the game's strongest assets, even by those who critique the gameplay and unfinished content. So basically the exact opposite of the imaginary scenario you created in your head to support your retardation. But you'd know that if you actually had the experience with video games that you're trying to project, and weren't just a LARPing zoomer.
I played this game for the first time just last year on original hardware and the load times didn't bother me at all *shrugs*
>>3841542>I think railroad jrpg fatigue and long-ass cutscene fatigue had set in by thenFunny how that didn't hold X back.No, FF9 was kiddy-looking shit at the turn of the millennium when cool edge was at the height of popularity, on top of being released at the ass-end of the PS1's life when the PS2 was already out and X was already coming down the pipe.We're seeing a "resurgence" of IX popularity right now because the poor kids from broken homes are now grown up and crying on youtube about how Vivi helped them escape from the sound of their parents fighting or their imaginary school bullies or whatever, and millennial men are increasingly retreating into childhood storybook fantasy because they can't handle adult life.
>>3842235>and millennial men are increasingly retreating into childhood storybook fantasy because they can't handle adult life.holy based
>>3841539this, but unironically. The shift away from gameplay and toward movie-games combined with the epidemic of non-existent attention spans has created an entire generation of "gamers" who can't fucking play video games unless they're getting a constant flow of pretty colors and dopamine.
>>3842220A story with plot points that have truly universal human relevance?What is this artform coming to.
>>3842235>We're seeing a "resurgence" of IX popularity right now because the poor kids from broken homes are now grown up and crying on youtube about how Vivi helped them escape from the sound of their parents fighting or their imaginary school bullies or whatever, and millennial men are increasingly retreating into childhood storybook fantasy because they can't handle adult life.Holy projection.
>>3842426It's fine, it's just not "deep." FF9 fags just need to stop cringe exaggerations.
>>3842235>We're seeing a "resurgence" of IX popularity right nowNo we're not.
>>3835720It's better than 8, and maybe as good as 10, but 6 and 7 are still better.
>>38427297 is better than 88 is better than 99 is worse than 10And from there it's all downhill
Wasnt there a mod to make stealing 100% chance? I think I heard of such a thing, that would make it playableMost I remember about FF9 is sitting on bosses for an hour to steal shit
>>3842961Moguri has it as a built in option these days. Hopefully the steal from all bosses myth will vanish eventually so players can stop punishing their playthroughs for no good reason.
>>3842991Interesting, I should play it
>>3842991>Hopefully the steal from all bosses myth will vanish eventually so players can stop punishing their playthroughs for no good reason.Stealing may not be mandatory but it is handicapping the player. By the time you can acquire the loot via other means you've either acquired better equipment or you're forced to grind the over-world because you're hit with multiple skills/abilities that all require the same slot to learn. If you could stockpile excess ability points it would go a long way to alleviating the forced steal mechanic.
>>3843022>If you could stockpile excess ability points it would go a long way to alleviating the forced steal mechanic.This is a bad idea. I know it sounds good in theory, but in practice it means you'd never have to make meaningful choices when it comes to equipment abilities.Not that most abilities are good or worth going for in the first place, but still.
>>3843117>meaningful choicesThe choices are of no concern when you can grind the overworld for infinite AP. If they we're constrained by story progress you would make a good point.
>>3843140Grinding is a fail state in these games.
>>3843146It's both a fail state and a failsafe. It's a fail state for adults. It's a failsafe to help children complete the game.Do as much grinding as you want: you only have yourself to blame if you don't enjoy your choices.
>>3843165>It's both a fail state and a failsafe. It's a fail state in game design. It's a failsafe to help children complete the game.*fixedIf you have to grind it's a fail state by the devs. Unless you're forcing an extended play time but that's typically the realm of p2wGacha / mobileSlop. But otherwise I agree, it is a necessary fail safe for, as you put it, "children". But if you're making a game for children it's still a bad design if they're having to grind.Basically, grinding is a sign of bad game design. But it should be noted, grinding doesn't just refer to leveling up, it also refers to other such actions like having to steal from an enemy repeatedly in an attempt to gain an item.
>>3843022Equipment mostly follows up the steal opportunity quickly and the real route to get the best equipment is via chocograph anyway. You also don’t need to permanently learn every single skill. These are all completely arbitrary rules you people set up for yourselves.
>>3841727>>3841736It's based on a clip of George Lucas talking about the Star Wars prequel trilogy.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFqFLo_bYq0Pottery is just mocking the notion of "rhyme" being the most important factorIt's pretty firmly a millenial creation
>>3843233Having the ability to fail in a game is grinding. Got it.
>>3843257>Having the ability to fail in a game is grinding. Got it.It is when the chance to succeed is 0.39% (1 in 256).
Your autism to collect every possible item in the game is not a failure of game design, its a failure of your genetics
I love it but I've also only ever beaten it once because I tend to fall off during disk 3. It's not the best-paced FF
>>3843403>I love it but I've also only ever beaten it once because I tend to fall off during disk 3. It's not the best-paced FFWhen it was new, I dropped it on disc 1. I didn't finish it until I went back and replayed the whole series. IMO it's the weakest of the SNES/PSX era.
>>3838283trvthnvke
>>3843403>I tend to fall off during disk 3. It's not the best-paced FFThis. From D3 it's all downhill.Tried it on the PSX back when it was released - dropped it at disk 3Tried it on a PSOne with the flip out screen when I first moved out and had nothing else to do in the evenings - dropped it at disk 3Hacked in on to my PSP and Vita, dropped it both times. Even tried the PC release, dropped it.Even tried watching a letsPlay, the streamer dropped it (lol).Only time I've seen the game completed was when someone else was coming round and playing it and I was able to entertain myself simultaneously. But I can't take credit for that.At this point the only way I haven't played the game is with mods, tempted to give moguri a try but if you need mods to enjoy the game, you have to admit the base game is shit.
>>3843364He's talking about a specific unique item, you would know this if you had played the game.
>hatewhat do people hate about it, other than ditching the sci-fi settings of the previous few titles.
>>3844602People who live the game hate that it was hate that it was the worst on its console. That's not saying its bad, far from it, but their sense of entitlement causes them to seethe over such a fact.
>>3844602Lame main characterLame party membersLame storyLame villain(s)Lame superbossLame worldLame musicLame minigamesLame mechanics like Exalibur II or super low drop rate rare stealsIt's just not a great game. People only love it because either 1. They feel strong nostalgia because they played it as an impressionable adolescent, or 2. They were going for hipster street cred to praise the game as a TRVE FF after the futuristic settings of 7/8 and the experimental gameplay mechanics of 8.
>>3835720I've never finished a Final Fantasy game
>>3844602A crap game + crap fanbase + crap culture = disdain + hatredPeople wouldn't hate it if the fans could didn't keep pushing their belief that it's better than 7 and 8.
>>3835720
>>3835720I've tried many times to get into FFIX and I just can't do it. I don't think there is a single thing I like about the game. The battles are atrociously slow, the story and characters do not grab me at all and the art direction is ugly imo. Which is kind of frustrating because I always see FFIX praised and highly ranked. I know FFVIII is quite divisive, but I honestly think it does everything better down to the card game.
>>3844713>I can't accept that someone else has a different opinion on these games than meyeah sounds like the FF fanbase all right
Best one along tactics advance, ffvi and ffvii
>>3845937Grugg no smash princess,Grugg wanna smash Vivi in batty hole,Grugg like boys.
>>3836166>Kuja and Mikoto are siblingsThat's even hotter
>>3835720I'm in neither. Just found it boring for some reason, even though I like a lot of the other FF games. Tried playing through the game about 3-4 times now. Every single time I get up to somewhere around Blackmage village and unlocking summoner girl then start feeling so bored I lose all motivation to keep playing.
>>3846970I get as far as the airship, that's the point where the games meant to open up and become fun but by then I've been railroaded for so long the joy is gone.People rail on 13 but 9 is worse, at least in 13 there's build variety.
>>3844689>Lame musicThis one is not true.
>>3846973Once about 15ish years ago, I played FF4 and FF9 side-by-side, taking notes as I went.I recall in the time it took to get the airship in FF4, I'd made it to Lindblum for the first time.===Incidentally, I also played FF7 paying attention to the feel of "opening up" and while technically it still took a long time before getting full access to the Highwind, there were a number of other factors in FF7's favor.1. The midgar section is pretty intense, with good narrative focus and pacing balanced with lots of combat. You're in this oppressive slum fighting Shinra (with an interlude to introduce Aeris), then everything drives to the climax in Shinra tower with the big twist followed by the motorcycle chase to transition into Act II. FF9 doesn't have this same focus. The mission to bring Garnet to Lindblum just doesn't have the same intensity as Barret/Avalanche vs Shinra. It's a 'journey' narrative but you barely engage with the world map at all, and are mostly prevented from backtracking to previous locations.2. FF7's Act II begins to 'feel' more open very soon after the Kalm flashbacks. The travel from Kalm through the next several locations has the more old-school gameplay feel of journeying through wilderness and discovering new places. During this phase you can backtrack quite a bit, even if it takes some traveling. (You can keep checking back at Fort Condor, for example). In FF9, instead you have the split-party segment where one group heads to Burmecia and the other back to Alexandria. There's basically one little enclosed plains area to explore outside lower lindblum which is the first real world map exploration in the game.
>>3847012I can remember music from 3, 6, 7, Tactics, 10, Chrono Trigger, despite not playing these games for decades, but I can’t remember a single song from 9 despite playing it multiple times.
>>3847027Well I can.
>>38393058 is nice, you should feel nice.
>>3835720Don't hate it. Dropped it about 30% into disc 1, even when a tried to replay it at various points in my life. It is fanatically boring in every respect. Garnet is a cutie though.
Were we robbed?
>>3847569You're in luck, pal. I have the pilot episode for you right here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgjwjaBJ5Do
