Icewind Dale 2

>>3838581
Realms of Arkania: Star Trail (DOS version)

baldur's gate 3

>jarpiggers stare uncomprehendingly at this thread
Don't confuse the poor jarpiggers, OP.

>>3838581
FO1&2
It just did it the best.

>>3838681
This, but you just know you'll get some salty faggot contrarian saying otherwise because the game is popular

Diablo IV.

>>3838705
What's good about it? Haven't played it yet.

>>3838724
Non-binary feminine penises
Vitiligo slider

>>3838581
Tyranny

>>3838681
>>3838705

Divinity: OS 1&2 were both superior and your choices during char creation had an actual big impact on how you played.

>>3838727
wow it has that stuff???? i don't like those things!!1!!! people that aren't like me have that stuff like WTF

>>3838739
So what's good about the character creation?

>>3838751
more complex visual customization over most other rpgs; you could make nearly any kind of human you can think of with little compromise

>>3838760
Oh, it's just visuals? That's nothing to do with good character creation in an RPG. That's shit for Sims games.

>>3838760
>more complex visual customization over most other rpgs; you could make nearly any kind of human you can think of with little compromise
Dude, you choose to be either short or tall, and then pick from pre-canned heads and pre-canned hairstyles. It's literally on par with Morrowind from 23 years ago. Dragon's Dogma is a 13 year old console peasant game and fucking mogs BG3's character creation.

>>3838766
it assists in the role-playing part. but you knew that.

>>3838783
No, I'm not fucking with you are being coy. The thing that makes me hard in a character creator is actual gameplay related shit, numbers and stats and perks and skills and backgrounds and races and classes and spells. That's what defines a character, more than the mere appearance.

>>3838796
my favorites are the older fallout games for that

>>3838581
>character having flaws at all
unicorn tier
>said flaws are reasonable and not outright crippling or offer decent counter balance
Jesus on a unicorn tier

>>3838581
Skyrim

Why have menus asking me who I want to roleplay and what fucking weapon shall I swing, when I can just start roleplaying and show, not tell, the game my answers.

>>3838581
>picrel
What's the point of all this if the world in this toddslop is so cardboard and empty that you barely have interesting ways to use any of these skills?

>>3838783
>it assists in the role-playing part.
By that logic Skyrim is the best because players can mod in all kinds of visuals. Sure, the game does not react whatsoever but at least it looks different, right?

>>3838760
>complex visual customization
>>3838766
>Oh, it's just visuals? That's nothing to do with good character creation in an RPG
What.. Of course it's important that a player can make their character look as they envisioned. Looks alone can say much about a character.

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>>3838929

>>3838705
It's ok for emulating an extremely limited and stripped down D&D 5e.... But TicTacToe literally has more options. So...
It's not contrarian to notice that D&D 5e is garbage and a minimalistic Lite version is still garbage.
BG3 has other virtues. D&D 5e is the primary fault / failure of the game.

>>3838760
How many hairstyles does it have? Can you make a skinny dork with a receding hairline? Because you can't, actually. The skinniest body available is a gymrat literally bulkier and more muscular than Chris Hemsworth...

>>3838935
I like most if the larian house rules. I can't take the story seriously.

>>3838929
I think the only game I've played where looks impact a character is Dragon's Dogma, where size determines carry capacity and other stats.

>>3838700
>>3838589
>>3838721
Why
>>3838728
Unfortunately everything else sucks. CC and intro is 10/10.

>>3838776
Dd2 might have the best character charger ever.

In terms of appearance?
>Nioh 2
>Black Desert
>The Sims 3
In terms of build autism?
>Diablo clones like Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, and Sacred 2
>Crpgs like Pillars of Eternity 2
>City Of Heroes (more variety than depth)

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>>3838950
>Why

>>3838954
>Diablo clones like Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, and Sacred 2
There isn't any character creation in Path of Exile or any ARPG, unless you mean the Path of Building program or Grimtools. The game itself is a process character development in these games.

>>3838949
That is cool, but maybe it's asking too much to have the game react to finer details.

But beards are a must have, so that the drunken barbarian doesn't look like he shaves every morning. I don't care if the game has beard mechanics or branching paths for beard havers.

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>>3838964
>But beards are a must have, so that the drunken barbarian doesn't look like he shaves every morning
Why? He keeps his sword sharp enough to shave with a whetstone every morning. Debearding is the test and a ritual. Oh, your barbarian doesn't maintain his weaponry? Bad character.
>I don't care if the game has beard mechanics or branching paths for beard havers
Therefore it doesn't matter to the game. It's fluff, unimportant, irrelevant, you can LARP as anything you want, create any background, without any optional face sliders. But these are video games.

>>3838955
Looks intriguing. Is it like vtmb where 3 out of 4 abilities are literally non functional?

>>3838980
No not all of them are equally represented, especially the spells, since just like VtMB they were copying a tabletop system into a PC game and wanted to let people make their characters with it except with this there are even more moving parts due to German engineering in The Dark Eye. A number of those skills you'd think are useless can be useful at some point depending on your party and playstyle though, like you can actually perform in bars and get money and intuition skills matter when setting watch for the night at camp and herb lore is a must have to find herbs to treat wounds and diseases with and animal lore is useful for hunting. There's also two different modes of character creation, depending on how much you want to get into it. It also has negative attributes that you have to assign to your character, so besides STR and Courage and stuff, you have to set Acrophobia and Avarice and Superstition. Interesting game, all around in that it does some things no other RPG does, though by no means is it without flaws. Made by Germans, including Guido Henkel, the dude who worked on PS:T and was the box art model for TNO.

>>3838955
This might not be fallout 1,2 nor d4, so is it maybe realms of arkania? What you describe sounds pretty good. When was it when rpg became streamlined? I'd say around the time the ps2 came out, bit later maybe. Suddenly arpg were dumbed down big league and the amount and length of cutscenes rose exponentially.

>>3838968
>without any optional face sliders
With*
>But these are video games.
With beards

>>3838705
>consoomer pre-emptively seething about people not liking the product he's tied his identity to

>>3838968
>Debearding is the test and a ritual.
Based, beards are for numales.

>>3838589
>>3838955
>>3838990
>Realms of Arkania
I've spent an entire day getting an error trying to play this game (all 3 of them actually) for $1.59 on steam and it's making me lose my fucking mind

>>3838968
>to shave with a whetstone
Peak barbarian.

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Older games did char gen and leveling much better. But there's something to be said about having too many options and the traps they create for new players.

>>3839074
>Older games did char gen and leveling much better
Playing salt sacrifice rn. It feels almost identical to yakuza iw. Stats are no abstraction anymore, they just fulfill one role. Str? Attack big weapon. Dex? Attack small weapon and ranged.

>>3839074
DF is an example of too many options that create a LOT of traps for new players.
FO is not a good example, it's actually pretty hard to brick a character. You'd have to like, intentionally cripple yourself by not spending all your special points

>>3839041
Don't buy abandonware on Steam, lol. Just use eXoDOS lite.

>>3839083
>it's actually pretty hard to brick a character
That's more because the game is piss easy.

>>3839074
>But there's something to be said about having too many options and the traps
Yeah I think one issue is that a player can make a character that's not fun to play.

I once got a complaint, and turns out they took the slowest possible character and gave them heavy armor. The allure of hybrid builds.. not a good choice for newbies without advanced knowledge.

>>3839041
You don't know how to use dosbox? And I thought zoomers are supposed to be tech savvy. There is a dosbox wiki, you know.

>>3839143
>And I thought zoomers are supposed to be tech savvy.
Why?

>>3839143
$1.59 and I don't have to think at all. My daily rice costs more. I'll live.

>>3839151
>and I don't have to think at all.
The bimbo generation.

>>3838721
>>3838950
To troll. =]

>>3839078
The simplicity can be nice, but when it's so straightforward it takes away from the character building experience, I think. It comes down to simply, do I want to be a strong guy or fast guy.
>>3839083
Old Fallout is an example of a pretty good system for the reasons you said. While I think some build are much better than others, it still gives the player agency to be creative.
>>3839140
>took the slowest possible character and gave them heavy armor.
That sounds more like an issue with the player and not the game.

>>3839151
>$1.59 and I don't have to think at all
>I've spent an entire day getting an error trying to play this game (all 3 of them actually) for $1.59 on steam and it's making me lose my fucking mind

>>3839160
>That sounds more like an issue with the player and not the game.
It's a common issue, even among experienced gamers and on /vrpg/, so it's something designers could think on

>>3839160
>away from the character building experience
Always boring nowadays, hence mediocre 33 is gobbled up. People are starving for actual rpg.

>>3839160
>do I want to be a strong guy or fast guy.
Here you have poison (green damage), electro (blue damage) and fire (orange damage). Make the best out of it. Elemental systems are almost often reduced to coloured damage.

>>3839167
you got me there. it doesn't make sense. oh well vending machine stole my money.

anyway, I love it. I have no idea what I'm doing but this shit is amazing for 1992. character creation was very interesting and I know he said Star Trail Classic and not Blade of Destiny but I gotta play them in sequence.

>>3838681
I honestly like it. I feel like it's a very intuitive introduction to 5E, a game which often isn't intuitive.

>>3839292
>a very intuitive introduction to 5E, a game which often isn't intuitive
It’s literally the most dumbed-down, streamlined, casual version of DnD, designed from the ground up to be played by women, homosexuals, and melaninated individuals

>>3839296
Yeah but those people probably just make up rules to play it anyway.
Other games of DnD made sense because there were rules.
Since 4E they started nonsense like do a skill challenge.

>>3838581
>roll stats
>pick class
>play game
Peak.

>>3838729
Outside of your starting race which has some minor story implications, I can't think of anything in DOS2's character creation that had any impact at all.

>>3839083
>it's actually pretty hard to brick a character
I picked extremely low ST assuming that it only affects melee damage and only halfway through realized that I can't hold anything heavier than a pistol. Most of the game I spent hunting for buffout. Was kinda fun though.

>>3838581
Underrail.

>>3839484
Kino. You don't need more

>>3839574
>Narrative Difficulty mode
>Normal has "Miss Smoothening"
Jesus, modern devs are fucked.

>>3838760
Retard bg3's character creator has no fucking sliders.

The real answer to this question is Starfield.

>>3839296
oh no! those people aren't like me! that's bad!

>>3838796
>>3838915
>ackshually, my maximum charisma temptress should be a brick-faced she-brute since only stats matter

>>3839698
Bad read, it's that only gameplay matters in games. Barbie dressup is extraneous fluff you can get anywhere, from The Sims to Illusion games.

>>3839710
But I bust bigger nuts to the Sims than Final Fantasy 8, so Sims is better.

>>3839812
I don't know why you're bringing up FF8 in a character creation thread, think you confused yourself there.
But in that case, you don't care about the game, but rather arousing your your dick. The thread is "RPG character creation" so the aspects of creating a character that are unique to RPGs are pertinent, not the aspects found in Sims games or poser programs, at that point you should go to /v/ and get more general character creation comparisons.

>>3838581
>asks which rpg has the best cc
>posts the rpg with the best cc in the op
pointless thread

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>>3839675
>those people aren't like me. that's bad.

>>3839871
Most of Daggerfall skills are garbage and useless though. Only a few advantages and weaknesses are actually interesting to play with most are tedious or annoying. Also your race/class combo genuinely does not matter at all

>>3838867
objectively correct answer

/thread

>>3838867
I kneel, Todd

>>3839904
Yeah, you're totally just like the black-and-white computer-generated image of a cartoonishly exaggerated bodybuilder showing the tell-tale signs of organ failure due to steroid abuse. Nevermind that it's an entirely fictional image just for a moment. How is it that you completely misunderstood that the reason the cartoon was created in the first place was specifically to ridicule you and others like you?

Yeah, dude, you're totally just like Goku. You're gonna power up and show everyone what a fucking master race god you are...

>>3840004
this is a person posting about video games. lol
man, you kids don't even try with your irony.

>>3840005
You can't even capitalize or punctuate correctly. Everyone here knows you're a teenager.

>>3840014
are you seriously being ableist about proper grammatical syntax, positing that my informal posting style is indicative of a lack of mental development due to age or disability? like, bro, not everyone has pinkies, so stop punching down.

hehe, wasn't this joke funny and creative.

>>3840018
Sure, Jan .jpg

>>3840019
yes, marsha.
youwouldntgetit.jpg

>>3840021
>Oh ho ho! 'Twas but a ruse!
>A switchy swooshiddy doooo!
>A CUNNING PLOY!
>A jape most dire!
>The grandest of gags!
>SUCH SCINTILLATING SATYRICAL SARCASM!
If only we could all be Joker, we might follow the infinite spiral of switchbacks to see the quantum superposition of Schroedinger's joke. Were you a complete fucking moron who got called out and told to fuck off? Or were you history's most extraordinary foole, trolling us all and we just can't see how profoundly you mocked us all... On a fucking 4chan thread in one of the most obscure and sluggish boards...

>>3840026
you should try being sincere in all your interactions with your fellow humans, then you don't have to play head games and mock people to feel better about yourself. finite life.
or actually be funny.

What do you think of the cc of mandragora?

>>3840029
Because calling you out for failing at playing head games is totally the same thing as playing head games. Ya, no one is possibly capable of following the comment chain with even an iota of reading comprehension. This is, what, the fifth thread you've shat up with your firehose antics?

>>3839296
The rules are written like fucking ass. It doesn't matter that they dumbed it down because it's still not intuitive. Simple =/= intuitive. It's simple to open a pull door, but if I write "PUSH" on it in huge letters then it's not intuitive. An example of some of 5e's worst fuckery
>attacks can be weapon attacks or spell attacks
>spell attacks don't have to come from spells, and spells can create weapon attacks
>there's a spell that makes spell attacks that count as attacks with a weapon, but it still isn't a weapon attack
>Unarmed strikes are weapon attacks, but don't count as "attacks with a weapon" which some features are arbitrarily worded as
>Paladins can smite with weapon attacks, but not unarmed strikes btw
>Except for on some races that get natural weapons (like claws) that are both attacks with weapons AND unarmed strikes at the same time
>but this is the exception and most weapons like claws actually AREN'T unarmed strikes
Throw in Jeremy Crawford having some of the stupidest takes on his own rules and it's an unnecessary shitshow. It's too codified and strict to be "go with the flow and use your in the moment rulings" like rules lite games, but it's not codified enough to go "yeah the rules will cover most things you need no problem" like crunchier games

>>3841869
this guy knows
I was deep in the D&D next playtest and the turnaround from the last push to the published version on the shelves was just way too fast. It still had half-baked wording ideas and it fails on having an internal consistency. 5e was launched on "believe it works and it can work"

>>3841869
>>3841895
Complex systems won’t survive the competency crisis.

>>3841843
are you still butthurt? damn.
>firehose antics
that's a new one for me, what mean?

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>>3838581
Bastard Bonds.

>>3841895
To be fair, it kinda did. Shit's probably the most successful edition of D&D ever made, despite a glacial release pace and a skeleton production crew.

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>>3839296
>It’s literally the most dumbed-down, streamlined, casual version of DnD
5e is bloated trash just like 3/3.5/4e. despite having so many more tables for edge causes, 1e is unironically a far simpler system play

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>>3841869
>The rules are written like fucking ass
Today I will remind them

>>3842698
>probably the most successful edition of D&D ever made
What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul?

>>3842758
Unsure how that is true, but OK. 5eis simple af through aggressive streamlining. Every class feels the same.

>>3843791
>Every class feels the same.
That's not true, several classes are notoriously undertuned and feel notably bad compared to the standouts, and the martial/caster divide is still strong.

>>3838583
Man I hate that IWD 2 is the only game like that that uses 3.5 rules. I know people think 3.5 is gay as aids but I like how it works in that game and not so much the turbo autism of PFKM.

>>3843847
We talking 5e? Every other martial has a wide spell selection. Ranger, paladin, sword bard, EK knight aso. Dividing into bulky warrior and frail mage is an antiquated approach.

>>3843893
Really chaps my ass how many arcane caster players will take a one level dip just to get medium armor + shield proficiency to run around in armor like that

>>3843895
Exactly. Cha players are the worst. One dip as paladin, to follow my god/inner calling and all the other levels into sorceror for high dps.

>>3843901
Such a disgusting combination. Of all the dumb shit 5th ed did to various classes, I hate what they did to paladins the most.

>>3843893
>Ranger, Paladin
Are Half-Casters, their entire conceit is "what if fighter but also it's half druid/cleric"
>sword bard
is not a martial. Bards a fullcasters, sword bards get armour and can swing a sword okay, but they still don't get classed as martials. They have extremely different spell lists to the aforementioned 2, aren't as good with their weapons, and reach 9th level spells
>EK
Has a terrible selection because you get a gimped wizards spell list full of spells not particularly useful to you, and have fuck-all in terms of spell slots. They're only similar if you stop reading when you see "they get weapons and can cast spells".
>Dividing into bulky warrior and frail mage is an antiquated approach.
I didn't say anything about bulky warriors and frail mages, though. I said there are classes that feel worse from their peers and their being a martial/caster divide. Martial/caster divide doesn't mean "martials are bulky and casters are frail", it refers to the gap between the capabilities of spellcasters and martials in DnD-esque games. The fact that wizards aren't actually that frail is part of why the divide exists in the first place.
>>3843901
>>3843906
Sorcadin is just "okay". Losing Extra Attack and Auras is a huge loss for paladins. It gives you meh DPS, worse casting than a full sorcerer, and investment into a dump stat in exchange for higher armour class and the ability to burst for really high amounts like twice a day. A 1 level dip in paladin is actually really sucky on its own. The actual stupid armour dips are Cleric/Artificer/Fighter. Cleric gets bonus stupid points for being the only dip that gets you heavy armour after without starting in the class at 1st level.

The actual cancer is Hexblade dips. Hexblade is by far the worst instance of class/subclass design in all of 5e, I don't know what they were thinking.

>>3843913
>I don't know what they were thinking.
They weren't.

>>3843895
Ye, not destiny's chosen, but a fighter with a prerogative and plenty of magical effects.
>>3843913
>their entire conceit is "what if fighter but also it's half druid/cleric
You say it like it's a good thing.
>bards
Are full martials and full casters, especially sword bard.
>ek
Say, can everyone use scrolls in 5e? Magic items? In bg3 it's no problem to have plenty of artifacts at your disposal.
>hexblade
Worst thing with them is their players suck hard.
>thinking
You really want to use that term describing wotc?

>thread about character creation in vidya rpgs
>tabletop buildfags start their usual autistic drivel
creation isn't development

>>3843943
Except when it is. Why don't you help with the conversation, instead of whining like a woman?

>>3843942
>You say it like it's a good thing.
I'm just saying it because it is what it is. It's a neutral thing. Ranger is terribly designed and paladin has great design, it's a matter of execution more than anything.
>Are full martials
I don't agree with swords bard's bring full martials but I can at least see how that could be argued. Baseline bards are absolutely not though.
>scrolls
You can only use them if the spell is on your class' spell list, and if it's of a level higher than you can cast you need to make a check first. It also has to be an action or bonus action I'm pretty sure, so no scrolling something like Shield. You couldn't get a regular fighter casting invisibility, for example, because fighters don't get a spell list (unless EK). Thief Rogues and Artificers letter get features that let them ignore the spell list caveat.
>magic items
Anyone can use them. A few are spellcaster only, but not any a martial would care about to begin with.
>players suck hard.
Yeah, but I feel the design itself begets that. On top of the "charisma casters dip here to only ever need one stat" stuff, its lore is so bad it's been memory holed by literally everyone I've seen play it, and the theme within its features is inconsistent, so you can't even attract players who care about roleplaying over minmaxing.
>You really want to use that term describing wotc?
Honestly, good point.

>>3843947
>bard's bring
Christ, I can't type at all today

>>3843947
>Thief Rogues and Artificers letter get features that let them ignore the spell list caveat.
Bg3 > 5e or god forbid one dnd 2024

>>3843947
>Yeah, but I feel the design itself begets that.
Self explanatory or rather
>On top of the "charisma casters dip here to only ever need one stat" stuff, its lore is so bad it's been memory holed by literally everyone I've seen play it, and the theme within its features is inconsistent, so you can't even attract players who care about roleplaying over minmaxing.
It's pure power play, no role play allowed. Maybe that's the problem. No one cares about rp anymore, barely number go up.
>Whoa, I blasted that gobbo good! Gimme xp
>Whoa, I got another eldritch blast, eb go brrr.
Disdain for plebs.png

>>3843943
if you're talking about decisions made after level 1, it isn't character creation. stop crying at basic logical criticism, like a woman.

>>3838954
c i t y o f h e r o s

>>3838937
You can't have long hair, large breasts, non-square body shapes, or make anything resembling an attractive woman. It's goyslop of the nth order.

>>3838581
Fallout

>>3839524
That's just a shitty Fallout copy

>>3843848
>IWD 2 is the only game like that that uses 3.5 rules.
NWN2?

>>3844493
NWN is not 'like that' by which I meant an Infinity Engine game or similar. I could have been more clear.

>>3843848
It only uses some of them.

>>3844491
>fallout
>you get to pick gun, big gun and blue gun

>>3844525
For me, its melee + big guns