Considering how many people seem to hate overleveling in games, grinding, and getting too strong to the point of using limitations on play, why didn't any other game do what CC did where you only really gain levels after beating bosses so you're pretty much exactly as strong as you're supposed to be at that point in the game?
>>3844535This is why I love Chained Echoes with you only gain levels from beating bosses (SP is a very slow grind so don't really care about it).I do still love "metal slime hunting" and its equivalents though.
>>3844541Although it also exists as a form of softlock - since if the player only unlock the worthless skills then those level ups are essentially uselessA respec feature is needed
>>3844535Because levels are a form of soft difficulty and a lot of people prefer that. You can always go back and beat up easier enemies to get stronger for whatever challenge you face so if you're not making any progress because you keep dying, go back and do it.I prefer it though when RPGs have set power levels for each section of the game though. If my EXP isn't capped in some way, I'll cheat to instantly level to 99 and play the game that way just because the only line you could draw would be a minimum EXP game (Where you run from every encounter except for what's required) or that the player could grind as much as they want so you might as well save the time and max yourself out to blow through an easy game.
>>3844535>why didn't any other game do what CC did where you only really gain levels after beating bosses so you're pretty much exactly as strong as you're supposed to be at that point in the game?Because Chrono Cross itself fucked up its own innovation in a way that becomes extremely obvious if you're capable of forming contiguous thoughts:>regular encounters don't give EXP, only bosses>but MP is abolished in favor of "element grid" system, which attempts to emphasize individual encounter strats over long-term resource managementThe gameplay treats each encounter as though it exists in a vacuum and you don't have to worry about wasting MP on them, but then you also don't get anything for them outside of useless drops. Insult is added to injury by making the encounters visible on the overworld, to the point that they impede your progress. If a map has a narrow passage guarded by enemies, you're going to have to fight all of them. Often times, enemies cluster around you, so when you come back out to the map, you get tossed right back into another battle. Never mind the areas in the game where they specifically force you to defeat every enemy to proceed.So not only did this game make visible encounters frustrating, it made them a total waste of your time—you enter a dungeon, knowing full well you aren't going to be any stronger by the time you reach the boss, but you still have to wander around and grind through all these enemies in your path just to get to the boss, and you won't get ANYTHING for it. The game made the concept of regular encounters and dungeons as a whole completely obsolete, but then forced you to slog through them as though they weren't.
>>3844682at the time visually the game looked pretty, the combat system was fun. It was about the journey not the destination. People that played the game decades later missed out on the intended experience.
>>3844686If your argument is that, to enjoy the game, you have to be stupid enough to not notice how bad it is, I suppose I agree with you.
>>3844686You are fucking retarded.
>>3844693bruh ur not supposed to play it decades later in 2x emulator speed to get to the good parts. The combat was the charm using the latest magic on a dragon and feeling like a boss or playing as the cat guy for the first time. If all you care about is numbers go up autism and your playing the game decades later after intended release of course its going to be a 3/10 experience play a dungeon crawler instead lot or jrpgs are about the journey adventure the stats go up.
>>3844704*journey adventure not stats go up.
The game was shit then and still is. I'm actually old enough to remember people that played chrono trigger called it out for being a complete waste of time.Most of the cast add zero value to the plot and often time you feel like you just chose the wrong answer.If you game requires New Game+ for it to be enjoyable, I'm sorry, it's trash.Masterful musical arrangements though.
>>3844704>bruh ur not supposed to play it decades later in 2x emulator speed to get to the good parts.I didn't. I played it on a PS1. On a CRT, no less. You seem to insist that judging a game in context of its own release means to judge it in a vacuum. Even by year 2000 standards, Chrono Cross's gameplay was dumb and tedious, and you'd have recognized it if you'd played at least one (1) other competently-designed JRPG, and had more than two braincells to rub together.I think what you're misunderstanding is that, yes, often times games with gameplay as bad as Chrono Cross CAN be held in high esteem. But those games typically have something else to their name—often a great story and likeable characters. Chrono Cross has neither of those things because it's a clusterfuck of bad ideas that was left unfinished thanks to Square's internal mis-management near the turn of the century. The only other asset the game has is its atmosphere and presentation, but by 2000, next gen systems were on the horizon and PS1 visuals just weren't cutting the mustard anymore.The game effectively had nothing to its name BUT its name—if it hadn't been advertised as a sequel to one of the most beloved SNES games of all time, nobody would even be talking about it anymore.
>>3844730>The game was shit then and still is. I'm actually old enough to remember people that played chrono trigger called it out for being a complete waste of time.Some did. Others loved it, or sometimes loved it as a game but not as a sequel. Overall, the game got more respect than hate. t. also old enough to remember
>>3844704>"Bruh the game is only good if you played it 25 years ago as a literal child"Right, okay, so it's a bad game. Thanks for agreeing with us.
CAN THE FUCKING CHRONO CHROSS SCHIZO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME?????You get stats up after each boss and grinding is made worse since you can miss these stats up entirely if you don't use your full roster after every single boss battle.
>>3844535I don't know why Crono Cross even had a levelling system since you could barely level up anyway. They should have just based your strength on equipment and magic.I don't want a half assed level up system that caps shortly after every boss.
>>3844730Even if it was fucked up since I expected a direct sequel, the game still looks and sounds incredible, there's lots of cool characters and places and story moments that stand out on their own. It has design flaws that are way bigger drawbacks than the story stuff everyone complains about.
>>3844686I played it at the time, got the intended experience, and found the intended experience quite lacking in everything but the visuals, music, and seeing how I could make things diverge with different choices
>>3844739The 3d rendered backgrounds were beautiful. Kid was top tier 2000s waifu. The plot was fascinating the likes of movies similar to dark city. Lynx was kino. Trigger is fun but story wise its juvenile shonnen shit even as a teenager and doesn't make ya curious wondering gee what happens next as much as cross does. You cant go into into ps1 story style presentation orientated game and judge its merits based on drpgs buuuh numbers go up mayn. PS1 era games Metal gear solid, grandia, brave fencer musashi were not intended for obsessed with stats going up fans.But I get it most of you are zoomers and not real jrpg fans.
>>3844739>The game effectively had nothing to its name BUT its name—if it hadn't been advertised as a sequel to one of the most beloved SNES games of all time, nobody would even be talking about it anymore.Nah. You're forgetting that this was Square at its peak. For years after FFVII, every Square game got plenty of attention and love. People still talk about every Square game from back then.
>>3844781>brave fencer musashi were not intended for obsessed with stats going up fans.I bought this to play the FF8 demo. Weird game
>>3844682>and you won't get ANYTHING for it.That's not true. You still get small stat increases, items, and money.
>>3844800>You still get small stat increasesI wouldn't call them small. If the game was actually hard you would need them to even out the terrible rng distribution that happens with stars.Remember, you can potentially get 3 mini level ups.
>>3844535because trigger faglets poisoned the well since chrono cross didnt suck them off hard enough
>>3844590Sounds super fucking retarded and boring, why even play?
>>3844739It also has a god-tier soundtrack.
>>3845447No idea, but it doesn't matter. What matters is people seem to prefer it and games sell better with it.
>>3844739Chrono Cross has very pleasant gameplay. You didn't explain what you meant, so I won't assume. I'll just say a few reasons why it Cross isn't tedious. This is one of if not the only JRPG where you can run away from every single battle in the game, u[ to and including the final boss. You have to fight some of them, but you can change your party and setup on a whim, and if you don't have to fight then you can run past encounters after fleeing. Since levelling up makes 'random' encounters give bonus levelup stats for a fixed # of battles after every boss fight, completionist autists may get worried by this but it's the opposite of tedious.The battle system itself is fast and engaging which to me are hallmarks of good design because you're not spending extra time watching animations. While the basic tactic of using a light attack to generate more accuracy for a heavy attack may not be strategically stimulating, on a visceral level it's cool to try and gamble for a medium or heavy attack and feel it connect. Post is 1000 words and I'm not writing more than that but Cross is one of the breeziest and freest playing JRPGs every made, the way levelling is designed it literally doesn't matter how often you switch your party, everybody can use whatever elements to use whatever strategy you want. All the spells look cool in this game, they're punchy, very pretty representation of the elements including ones you don't see as often distinguished nicely among the typical elements with the green and yellow spells.The gameplay is extremely free form, undemanding yes, but synergistic on every level with having so many unnecessary characters.
>>3845505Yeah seconding this, CC is fun as fuck. People sometime complain about having loads of pointless characters, but that was a plus for me too. Collecting them is cool.
>>3845505>This is one of if not the only JRPG where you can run away from every single battle in the gameHow is that a good thing?> but you can change your party and setup on a whimExcept the mc unless you are playing ng+. That means you can only change two characters.>Since levelling up makes 'random' encounters give bonus levelup stats for a fixed # of battles after every boss fight, completionist autists may get worried by this but it's the opposite of tedious.HOW DA FUCK!!!!Listen here, typical jrpg grind for weaker characters: Put a strong one in the party and let him defeat higher level monsters so the weaker ones can easily lvl up multiple times. It is grindy but simple and quick.CHRONO CROSS GENIUS:AFTER EVERY SINGLE STAR YOU HAVE TO FIGHT WITH EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER UNTIL HE GETS ALL THE SMALL SAT UPS. EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER!!!>The battle system itself is fast and engagingThe battle system is slow as fuck.The stupid stamina building dance adds nothing expect extra steps to a normal jrpg system, and that makes it slow and tedious.>you're not spending extra time watching animationsMost magic and summons animations are slow as fuck.
>>3844535It's called milestone leveling and it's actually pretty common in the west mainly with ttrpgs and gamebooks
>>3844535>why didn't any other game do what CC did where you only really gain levels after beating bossesエルファリア did this
>>3845603>How is that a good thing?I was responding directly to anon saying the game is tedious, so I'm not going to answer more questions if you are too retarded to follow along or read the rest of that post. I still don't know why anon says Cross is tedious, when again it was designed with many QoL features to make playing and replaying it convenient, to make it the opposite if tedious.
