One of the greatest and most soulful old school JRPGs of all time
Correct
>>3848180What does it have compared to newer gens than nostalgia and setting preferences?Boomers are the dumbest people who can't make a sound argument and just use blanket statements to force their opinions to others.
>>3848306>What does it have compared to newer gens than nostalgia and setting preferences?Actual dungeons for one. Better map design in general.
>>3848306A rival who actually wants to win. Modern Pokemon is clearly globalist. They probably just figure fuck it, let's get paid. It could be worse. And the games do have merit. But the tone of the old games was better. Very little has improved over the decades. Some sim elements, graphics. But there is far less soul. It's almost like ChatGPT is behind new development and new writing. Breeding is basically the best new feature added to pokemon, and it come out in Gold I think. Double and triple battles are ok.
>>3848306Kanto has the best map of any generation. It's structured like a SNES RPG and has a fantastic DQ3-like mid game where player party choices and an open design allow you to route your progression differently/make meaningful decisions. It also has really good dungeon design and fantastic pacing. The problems are that mon variety is bad, movepools suck, too many things are finite, and there's a bunch of annoying bugs that make combat less fair.The ShinPokeRed hack really makes the game shine simply by fixing bugs, making the game run better, and giving players an out from getting screwed by finite resources. The combat is still a bit primitive, but it's a damn fine game.
>>3848449It has nothing to do with politics. They stopped doing the shithead rival because it was getting old. Wally + alt gender rival was built as a twist to catch you off guard. Barry was designed to irritate instead of antagonize. Bianca was a curveball by failing halfway in, Cheren was an attempt to approach Blue from a different angle, and N was an attempt to do a more typical RPG rival. Hugh was shithead again with a new twist. Hau was an intentional misdirect and point of contrast with Gladion. Hop was a (poorly implemented) mirror of Rose. Nemona is Barry-like: meant to piss you off by smothering your agency while being a "friend" who doesn't respect you.The only real failure was Gen 6, holy fuck.
>>3848306If you can't detect the soulful (humanizing) aspects, you genuinely have autism
>>3848452The problem old people have with Pokemon is that the only serious change is adding 1000+ new pokemon. Keychains and shit. We wanted a Pokemon world like Skyrim. Or maybe better story lines, new challenges. But it stayed extremely stagnant. It didn't really get worse, in got very marginally better. Actually I feel very much the same about Pokemon as Call of Duty. Call of Duty was a great game. And then it released the same game for 20 years straight every year. "Nah bro black ops has a great story!" Ya, fine, whatever. Not worth playing that shit.
>>3848461Replying to myself - The reason I'm not butthurt about Pokemon never changing is that, it's a kids game. Kids like it. That's their audience, their cash cow. So I'm not mad. But when college kids talk about how great it is, it's like, no, no it's not. It's a shit game, or at least that's how it feels if you already played it growing up.
>>3848461I don't agree with you. I think more people got mad at certain aspects because they changed. I also wish it changed more, but complaints about the rivals almost always boil down to "I want to fight Blue every time."
Pokemon was never good.
>>3848180>>3848194It's likely the nostalgia talking but I still see the washed out art of gen1 and think it's so cool. The game itself is somewhat of a mess (with merits) but I think it's always been the imagination in the minds of kids that was so appealing.
>>3848463The rival comment was just about adding some aggression to the world. It's fine the rival changes. It's kind of pathetic that the rival is even still being talked about really. They recycle the same thing over and over. Even if it changes to some bitch who roots for you, it's essentially the same mechanic for 30 years.
>>3848518That's part of the brilliance of Pokemon. It was intended from the start to be a social thing for kids. That succeeded in part because the art and everything else inspired their imaginations and made them care about the Pokemon. People wouldn't have cared about trading them if they were boring.
>>3848518Right, the imagination was there. And hope for a better future. That never really came. Pokemon anime went nowhere. Movies went nowhere. Games never changed. The 3d games are some of the all time worse 3d worlds ever made. Wii level graphics. Horrendous physics. Just awful.
>>3848306what do newer gens have that the original doesnt? They sure as fuck dont have a story considering every game is just ripping off the plot from the first one. Surely you arent going to state that dino inflation maxxing is better than an original concept?
>>3848180I miss when pokemon focused on being an RPG. The exploration and subtle hints were great. Gold and Silver are really missing the additional paths. Like the power plant and circling around through diglett cave. I'll still forever be mad they didn't give psychic a proper counter in gen 1. Obviously, Ghost was meant to beat psychic, but lick is so weak anyway. A real ghost move would have helped for sure. Even more so If bug resisted psychic and bugs all got a decent bug move, it'd be such a perfect game. Cause they game has a counter to the gym leader of the town right near by. Misty there's Oddish/Bellsprout, Surge there's Diglett, Erika there's Vulpix/growlithe, Blaine is surrounded by water for tentacruel, Koga, the safari zone is full of counters. Sabrina? Nothing. There's nothing near by to help you beat her.
>>3848553>Obviously, Ghost was meant to beat psychic, but lick is so weak anywayNot only that, but the only Ghost types (Gastly/Haunter/Gengar) were also Poison type which is weak against Psychic.
>>3848553>Cause they game has a counter to the gym leader of the town right near by. Misty there's Oddish/Bellsprout, Surge there's Diglett, Erika there's Vulpix/growlithe, Blaine is surrounded by water for tentacruel, Koga, the safari zone is full of counters. Sabrina? Nothing. There's nothing near by to help you beat her.And Brock, fuck Brock!
>>3848564Brock is still part of teaching you the game. You are given a counter, or used charmander and beat him anyway cause he doesn't use rock moves. And giovanni is end game and similar weak to water and grass just like brock. But, you'd likely have a charizard who is immune to ground. So the 1st and last rely on your starters.
>>3848556Yea, would have been nice if they were just plain old ghost. Gengar could tank psychic hits since it had high special which was also your sp.def in gen 1. If lick was say 70 base power, and coded right to hit psychic, that'd have been balanced. Such a stain on pokemons history.
>>3848570>Gengar could tank psychic hits since it had high special which was also your sp.def in gen 1To some degree yeah, but when Psychic types like Alakazam hit so hard it didn't help much. Psychic still 2 hit KOs Gengar from Alakazam/Exeggutor/Starmie.
>>3848553This is why I consider gold and silver to basically be the pinnacle. Added in psychic counters. Your complaints about them are valid however. They also had breeding. Someone should just make Pokemon but Stardew where you breed monsters and fight them. And also have a farm. But ya it’s like what have new games introduced? Nothing. Clothes. That’s it.
>>3848180Why didn't they make an Ocean Blue/Sea Blue remake and instead opted for Leaf Green?
>>3848599Because Red and Green were the original versions in Japan. Blue was an extra version that changed some things, like all new sprites for the Pokemon.
>>3848306They are kids games with casinos. It's a story about growing up from an uncensored Japanese perspective. Like most great jrpg franchises, I personally think this one was ruined by going to 3d. Pokemon just looks great with sprites.
>>3848452Looking back the rival from GS was pretty fucked in the head. What a ride.
>>3848572Right, but if it were pure ghost that helps. Bug needed to resist psychic. And if Scyther and Pinsir had a good 70+ bug attack, then it would balance really well. Gengar as pure ghost makes him his own counter at that point. You'd have to toss ghost moves onto normal types as well.
>>3848588Yea, bug beating dark gave it relevance too. Actual ghost moves like shadow ball helped. I just wish there was a fixed version of gen 1. They could have made it so you can move tutor or get twineedle onto other bugs, or even fixed the ghost glitch in stadium or something. I love red and blue as an RPG though. And psychic isn't really an issue. I just wish it wasn't this thing that didn't get balanced right. Bugs being important later is almost like a onion knight kind of thing from final fantasy. If only tho.
>>3848458If you use soul all the time as a way to measure a game quality you are just a different type of autist
sovl...
>>3848688>The gangs talk tough shit but crumple if you fight back>Corruption runs rampant>Past mistakes get covered up>Kids are suffering from a loneliness epidemic and lashing out>Culture is being neglected>Social guard rails are not only not in place but intentionally broken in the big city>Can't get into important places without social favors>The elderly just need people to talk to>Pollution is changing our environment>Endangered species are treated like cheap novelties>Etc, etcPeople jerk other series off for "world building," but Pokemon's the king.
>>3848949OK I admit I missed the environmental storytelling in Pokemon
>>3848180No it's not, it's a janky project that only got big because it had nintendo's backing, a show and an associated card game.>>3848450Stop acting white the game is literal trash and far lesser than any game before it.I always wished it was like the manga instead of the dull self insertionist crap we got.Arc the Lad 2 did what pokemon did 10 fold better and monster taming was a side husstle to the main game., it even had the move tutor eight years before the latter had it.https://youtu.be/iNDLmUPIrq0?t=239
for me it's gen 2
>>3850178Its crazy how ubiquitous pokemon is and yet its apparently secret knowledge what makes the games special. >buh the grafix sux, they didnt invent monster taming! POKEMON DIDNT INVENT THE MOVE TUTOR YOU FUCKING FUCKS STOP PLAYING THIS GAME
>>3851268stop acting white, it's low quality slop you all lapped up. Another developer handled it better by pasting over shiren. Static sprites for 15 years is unacceptable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>3850178>>3851268>>3851343One word: Pokémon StadiumReal animations, real personality, 3d modeled the Pokémon all back in gen1/2The gb and gbc were too limited for that, but they still did it. Pokémon peaked early, but it was golden and soulful like OP claims
>>3851343>stop acting whitethis guy is always raging in PKMN threads kek
>>3850178>No it's not, it's a janky project that only got big because it had nintendo's backing, a show and an associated card game.Literally none of that stops the game itself from being soulful, you fucking tool.
>>3851472>One word: Pokémon StadiumThat's two words....>Real animations, real personality, 3d modeled the Pokémon all back in gen1/2Outsorced to HAL, not made by gamefreak and nothing even touched.....Also these models were used up until the Wii, if anyone else did that they'd be flamed to hell and back. The graphical leap between gen5 of gaming to gen6 to gen7 was fucking colossal....>>3851651Nah, it was cope.... Making up fanfic lore about glitches and areas that weren't even that creepy.When the crazy shit we clamored for actually happened in both manga.
>>3848180These games were a great underdog adventure. Gonna have some fun with Yellow Legacy soon.
>>3851724>Outsorced to HAL, not made by gamefreak and nothing even touched.....>Also these models were used up until the Wii, if anyone else did that they'd be flamed to hell and back. The graphical leap between gen5 of gaming to gen6 to gen7 was fucking colossal....Does any of that discount what was said though??
>>3851770nothing touched, every other rpg had things touching. Just putting effort into animations isn't "soul" it's what's expected. It was good for N64, but not so great on other consoles. >>3851750>3851750STOP CONFLATING IT!! It was a basic fucking game, there was no story, no adventure, no nothing. The manga is an adventure, the manga had lore, the games had NOTHING!!!!!
>>3850178>>3851771Dude Pokemon was amazing as an RPG compared to almost everything else on Game Boy. You're also ignoring the whole multiplayer component that made it huge. Pokemon wouldn't have gotten the show and card game if the game hadn't already succeeded in Japan and convinced Nintendo to make those. No it didn't have as much story as the comics (which I agree are cool), but the game is still a great adventure to play through and felt huge for a Game Boy game.
>>3851842>Dude Pokemon was amazing as an RPG compared to almost everything else on Game BoyEh,>DQ Monsters>Gen1>All LoZ games >gen1 &2You are gonna bitch about how it's an adventure game, but there is currency, there's towns and you talk to people, it's RPG enough.>FF Legend 1 &2>gen 1>You're also ignoring the whole multiplayer component that made it huge.true, true, but we are here for RPG my guy not the multiplayer. Also there were many crappy cash grabs like pinball, snap, etc.> No it didn't have as much story as the comicsOther series got that later in other games, why didn't pokemon?>felt huge for a Game Boy game.I honestly wanted more, and once it got to GBA it couldn't hold to everything else. Everything else progressed while Pokémon added unnecessary mechanics to artificially lengthen the game and complicate battles. Who the fuck has time for IV/EV bullshit?!
>>3848306The point of sovl is that you can't really articulate it. 1st gen pokemon art design and setting was just pure cool. 2nd gen was a major downgrade and 3rd gen outright ruined it.
>>3850178>Stop acting white??? Get off the internet, monkey.
>>3851878>monkeyYou probably have more body hair than I do.
I love how tendies worship a broken ( literally nothing words a sintended) game that required you to buy two copies to get the full experience.It is no wonder they are the ultimate slop enjoyers.
>>3851877>The point of sovl is that you can't really articulate it.So bullshit in which you can make up any meaning? Perfect for zoom zoom i guess.> 1st gen pokemon art design and setting was just pure cool. 2nd gen was a major downgrade and 3rd gen outright ruined it.Pure retardation. Gba game look great while gb-gbc are raping your eyes.
>>3851887I agree with your first point about sovl, and zoom zooms, but GBA was downright dreadful in comparison to everything else on the console
>>3851866LoZ is still only one game you can only play so much. It's one of the best games on the GB, but still just one game. DQM came out a couple of years after the original Pokemon games when everyone already boarded the Pokemon hype train. So why would it count as an alternative to Pokemon?
>>3851866>DQ Monsters>Gen1You know this isn't true, "Stop acting white"-anonYou just want to be contrarian>All LoZ games >gen1 &2This comparison doesn't make a fucking sense. You just want to be contrarian>Who the fuck has time for IV/EV bullshit?!Who the fuck thinks IV/EV is actually good, other than hyperautistic compfags? Nobody actually praised Pokemon for it; it's the diversity of moveset, ability and type combination that makes the battle ecosystem fun.
>>3851883OK even if Pokemon was a single-copy game it would still be good, admit it.Not that the marketing ploy is defensible either.
>>3851883Console warring about 90s handheld gaming must be one of the dumbest things to do. What else are you gonna do? Annoy your parents with "are we there yet?"?Even if you include non-Nintendo home consoles, I don't think you'll find a lot of monster collecting RPGs.But I'd be money that you didn't even play Pokemon back then, cause most things did actually work. The bugs, glitches and weird design choices were still not the norm.
>>3851883Trading was fun, but also, it didn't really affect anything. You picked the game you thought was cool. The only time I felt left out as a kid was Tinkle Island on Windwaker where you needed a gameboy advance for his mini game. I'm guessing the mini game was gay but I found it tacky it was included at all without first plugging in a gameboy advance.
>>3851866I hate when people point out games that are better, as if everyone had access to all RPGs all the time. Pokemon is a good RPG, and came out in the late 90's. No one was selling FF Legend games in 1998. Pokemon is easy, but that's what made it accessible. And when you're ok the gameboy, it makes it feel less punishing.
>>3852186You are zooming!!!!! There were plenty of better titles around.
>>3852198Nta but what are you, retarded or something?
>>3852203People keep putting this shit on a pedestal when it should be in a pit.
>>3852213If Pokemon is the pit, then everything else is in hell.
>>3852198Prove it, show a pic of a game store from October 1998. I was alive and buying games then, were you ?
I always enjoyed the feel in genwun that Pokemon were some mysterious thing that just happened to also exist in the wild along with everything that exists in the real world. Normal animals existed. Ironically Pokemon world building was better when they explained so much less and let your imagination fill in all the blanks. The new games are so thoroughly built that there is no room for imagine yet the games can't escape feeling flat.
>>3852400Yeah, it was cool when Pokemon referenced real world things. Lt. Surge was "The Lightning American," Mew was discovered in the jungles of Guyana, South America, etc.
>>3852404Yea, it was the "world of pokemon" that felt like this little pocket inside earth. Like pokemon exist and float around in this area and you get to explore it. Not that the whole damn world is all pokemob all the time. It's like how JRR Tolkein wrote the Hobbit. He understood, you the reader, lived in your world and had your own post office and home, but that Bilbo, lived in this one, and you had similar lives. Bilbo ate and slept like you. Pokemon felt like that, a "ELECTRIC MOUSE POKEMON" cant be a description in a world without mice.
>>3852397I was alive as well. I am having a hard time find xmas catalogs from toysrus or KBtoys or funcoland.
>>3852661I doubt you'll find one that shows a game that old and obscure still being sold. It's gonna have to be zelda or tetris to have ads for it in 1998. You'd do better to look at spring or summer 98 or winter 97 before pokemon was released.
>>3852661>>3852677You've got to keep in mind we had used game stores everywhere back then. Or at least I did. I didn't get Final Fantasy Legend until many years after it was released. Pokemon was way more interesting to me as a kid, though I liked both. It was also a more impressive game in terms of scale (as it should be, being a game released over 6 years later in Japan). The game was so old, being released December 1989, that Tajiri actually talks about it being the game that showed him the Game Boy could handle larger scale games.https://web.archive.org/web/20090425173442/http://www.nintendo.co.jp/nom/0007/taidan1/page02.html
test
>>3852708es
>>3852703And the big price catalogs where you could call or mail to order from places like Funcoland.
>>3852717
>>3852404Yeah this is gay. It would be justified if Pokemon were constantly encroaching on the wildlife and replacing them like mimic parasites. The Pokemon series cares so much about environmentalism, but they never talk about Pokemon genociding a myriad of species out of their own food chains. And it would justify why only 151 were originally recorded. Imagine if gen 3 started off with new monsters appearing everywhere and it's an ecological nightmare.
>>3848949Tajiri really tried to tell a story through two first generations. I'm kinda sad that when TPC was established he was kind of shoved outside of the public and Pokemon became exact reverse of what he tried to tell people.Call me a boomer, call me a genwunner or whatever else kids nowadays throw at people like me, but everything after Crystal is really a different franchise.
>>3852703Yea, it was a different time. A successful sequel would see originals go for a lot. I remember the effort my friend went through to get phantasy star 1 cause he loved 2 and 4 so much. However, the original statement was>There were plenty of better titles around.Which really is simply not true. One or two that were only sold in second hand shops isn't plenty and isn't around. Pokemon was a great game and was incredibly accessible when it came out. Other good RPGs on the gameboy? Not there. Though Im sure RPG sales in general started to blow up cause of FF7 and Pokemon. The style of game was so successful in the west it did very much change market trends.
>>3852804There's a tone and a world in Gen 1 and 2. And that goes away in 3. It's a weird world with kids and elderly. Like, what is this place? It's subtle, but it's clear choices to have NPCs not be adults.
