I had the thought that was more than likely the intent behind the classic 6 stat system that they can fit pretty cleanly into categories of resilience, power, and finesse, in a Physical and Mental sense.So now I'm thinking what other kinds of stats and attributes can be derived in similar categories?For picrel, the Spiritual side stands for Faith, Attunement, and Luck, which I think fits decently well.I was designing a simple RPG not focused on combat (before I canned the project because no one wants to play a less funny undertale) and I was planning to use stats based on the Body, Heart, Mind, and Soul.Sometimes, thinking up RPG systems can be more fun than trying to think of a whole game to house them. Maybe I should just get into tabletop.
>>3848843I'd switch int and cha
>>3848846I considered something like that, but I think it fits as is.Intelligence is about what/how much you know, while Charisma is how you present yourself and make use of what you know.Similarly to how Strength is how much you can move or lift, while Dexterity is about how well you can articulate and move yourself. (etymologically it's supposed to be just the right hand, but no one cares.)
>>3848848 I feel high int is a quick and nimble mind while high cha is a direct and forceful mind, but what you're saying makes sense too.
I think a low amount of stats that all matter to every character is better than a lot of different stats where you only care about two or three of them. Particularly if it's a game that's mostly about combat
>>3848850The two concepts are very closely linked in our real life. Classical philosophers would study logical axioms and doctrines as well as humor or rhetorical presentation since there just wasn't a difference between them culturally.I think this is partly why there's so much confusion over the difference between wisdom, intelligence, and charisma. Mostly WIS and INT though.
>>3848851Fallout's Special system does this pretty good most of the time. The small enough amount of stats meant to define what you can't do rather than what you excel at, and make you really weigh the pros and cons of having each number be where it is. it really works well when they're mostly static, only changing through the rare and limited bonus, like an implant, perk, or bobblehead.Stuff like Demon's Souls, and it's subsequent games have a bunch of stats (8 or 9), some of which you'd be better off not using. In Elden Ring, I never felt the need to raise my Stamina when playing a Magical character, even though using magic takes up stamina too. Similarly, I never felt the need to raise my Mana on a Physical character, even though weapon arts use Mana.That system seems more similar to multi-classing in D&D. You put a point into Intelligence, and you cast spells better. It doesn't help your weapon ability or your health points. It's more focused on defining what you can do rather than what you can't. You stick to what you chose because it's where you put your points. And you put your points there because that's what you wanted to do.I don't exactly like the FromSoft system for anything more than an action game with point-buying, but I can see why it has it's advantages.
>>3848843>that was more than likely the intent behind the classic 6 stat systemI think you're giving DnD's design principles far more credit than is due.
>>3848843>Faith, Attunement, LuckGibberish stats.
>>3848843I didn't like Attunement for spiritual resilience. I associate it with magic items, I don't really associate it with spirituality. So I moved Faith to spiritual power and made spiritual resilience Bravery.
>>3848852INT is knowing that tomato is a fruitWIS is knowing that it doesn’t belong in a fruit salad
>>3848843>spiritual finesse: luckkek
>>3849056That makes sense too.I sort of intended Attunement to mean your body's capacity to handle and receive holy intervention. Sort of like midichlorians.Faith would be just what it means, The ability to hold true to your religion, and not be swayed by outside temptation or seduction.>>3849079yeah, I won't lie. I kind of just wanted to find a way to integrate Luck as more than just the generic "keep it at the default, don't even think about it" stat
>>3849111I like Faith as spiritual power because it's like divine magic is more powerful the harder you believe in your deity or whatever. I like Bravery as spiritual resilience because it's like the more courageous you are the more protected you are against spiritual attacks, like demons and such.
>>3849111Luck fits as finesse because I think of Rogues when I think of finesse, and I think of Dex Cha and Luck as the roguish stats.
>>3849137>I like Faith as spiritual power because it's like divine magic is more powerful the harder you believe in your deity"Dude I know my god is allowing me to mend broken bones before my eyes, but I just don't have as much Faith in him as Tim."Retarded.
>>3848843This is basically trying to hard to make a 3x3.
>>3848846Nah. Intellect involves memory, recalling and applying information, drawing logical conclusions, and organized patterns of thought. It is definitely a power correlated function. While charisma involves “force” of personality, intimidation is still just an application of a function that is inherently linked to finesse, other applications of lying and convincing do not give off the appearance of force. Picking up on social queues, effectively communicating point and tone, and being intentional with word choice is all in the line of finesse, not power.
>>3849140it took a bit of brainstorming, but I still stand by it.I think the hardest one to put into words is Luck. If you can't see it as a sort of Spiritual Finesse, or at least using the word "luck" to describe something like that, then I can't convince you. And it's fine if you don't see it. It's all pretty ephemeral.
>>3849194Spiritual shouldn't be a definable quality.I have more of a problem with charisma being a physical stat as much as mental, how you hold yourself, how you talk, body language. Charismatic people are using their physicality.
>>3849064>food analogy>Not even an original analogyfat lazy fuck
>>3848843>power>resilience>finesseNot exactly the same, but reminds me of the three modalities in astrology. Besides the four elements, each sign of the zodiac also belongs to one of three modalities: Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable.
>>3849248And the four elements themselves are interesting too of course. Besides the obvious elemental magic angle common in RPGs, since Empedocles each element were also linked to one of the four humors and consequently the four temperaments:fire = bile = cholericearth = black bile = melancholicair = blood = sanguinewater = phlegm = phlegmatic
>>3849111I like it for luck. Belief in divine intervention, random chance, confidence, "I don't know how I did it, I just did".Undefinable success.
Why do you need one stat for each? Why does mental and spiritual need to fit into a symmetrical table? Replace wisdom with mind. You can infer what "being of a sound mind" would impact for mental resilience.Scrap charisma and luck. Replace both with willpower, fulfilling the finesse needs of both mental and spiritual. It's okay to have statistic overlap like that. If you're that resistant to merging these two stats, then use willpower and devotion, instead. But there is very little reason or justification for splitting mental finesse and spiritual finesse.Add an additional row at the bottom, label it command. Physical gets charisma. Mental gets personality. Spiritual gets authority. That will cover everything you need for the roleplaying aspect.
>not having an intuition statfail
>>3849281Intuition is your character level.
>>3848843Symmetrical stat systems are shit.
>>3849374I'm intuiting that you are a retard right now. What level am I?
>>3848852Intelligence is brain intelligence, Wisdom is bodily intelligence.
>>3849434Intelligence is being able to think well, wisdom is not thinking you do.
>>3849439charisma is when others think you do
>>3849442Strength is when you make other pretend you do.
>>3849450Luck is when they don't think it be like it is, but it do.
>>3849478shouldn't luck be when they DO think it be like it is, but it in fact don't?
>>3848843LUK should be ARC, Arcane.Luck such isn't anywhere on these sorts of grids
>>3849521That's kinda what I wanted to remedy here by trying to find a place where it fits.
>>3848843What is STR+DEX? Speed?
>>3850047Speed = STR+CON
>>3850060Ridiculous
>>3850062No.Distance(Power) + Time(Stamina)You're dumb.
>>3850065
>>3850067I accept your concession.
>>3850068
>>3850069
>>3848843Again with this stupid shit? You ARE trying to create a stat system for a COMPUTER game, right? So why you're making some kind of simple abstraction as if you're playing a TTRPG?If you go by physical education there's several core physical abilities like strength, agility, speed, endurance, coordination, etc, and of course you can take out some redundant ones, but reducing them to 3 is just stupid, are you trying to make a game for babies?
>>3850141I don't think you understand what I'm trying to do here.
>>3850158Oh oh, I know one, it's:waste people's time.
>>3848843I tried to come up with a tb system where speed isn't everything. Impossible. You either set speed at 1 and everyone has the same action economy or you have speed unequal to 1. This will inevitably lead to speed becoming a super stat. Fringe case would be a cosmetic speed stat that can be raised, hut never high enough to matter. Tried to let multiple stats play into speed, like dex. That doesn't solve the problem either. Then I tried to have some stats lower speed, no solution either.Anyone any ideas how to make speed count, but not too much?
>>3850231Speed is overpowered.Read that again.If it's overpowered on your system then you're doing it right.
>>3850231in Final Fantasy 14, speed is usually a dump stat that you should never take.Partly, it's because lining up your abilities and cooldowns is much easier with the base turn speed, but also just because Critical Hit is very powerful. Even Direct Hit is better than Speed if you have to commit to just one.I think the real point is to obscure the resultant numbers just enough that the average player can't quickly figure out which option is the best numerically. Then you can adjust the magnitudes of each value so that they come relatively close in terms of usability.Most importantly is to make each choice it's own unique brand of fun. If someone's having fun with a system, and it's working for them, then how optimal it is won't even be a factor.They might start looking at other options if it's so bad it's hardly viable, but that's a different design failure.
>>3850231If having 2 speed compared to others having 1 is op (because you always move first and such) each round decide upon order of turns by doing speed+1d6. Higher speed will move first more often but is not guaranteed. You can try to draw some functions in desmos for varying speed difference and varying modifier (1d2 to make speed matter more, 1d15 to make it matter less)
>>3848843This is just what World of Darkness has done on the tabletop since the 90s, but even gayer
I'm making an arpg and I think it'll mostly be ability based. You simply unlock abilities as you go, and shape your character from that. Going more for immersion than math. Not saying math is bad, but I think I'll give a shot at bypassing it.
>>3848843>stat systemsLV/HP/MP/STR/DEF/AGI, everything else is covered with math.
>>3850920>implyingyeah, math is half the funthe other half is crafting your character's attributes and seeing the manifestation of those decisions. In other words, Roleplaying.
