There would be a lot more stuff to generate procedurally thanks to modern hardware, so over a huge expanse of land you necessarily would have a lot of cool geography/towns/situations being created instead of the empty sameness of Daggerfall
Go play Starfield. No one wants to because it’s all boring soulless shit.The older I get, the less interested I am in randomness and procedurally-generated anything. I want hand-placed, hand-designed everything, otherwise what’s the point? AI slop.
>>3852618Yeah seriously.
>>3852618>i'm a baby who wants every game to be a theme park
>>3852616Advances in tech haven't led to advances in programming or better developers of video games. Modern devs use middleware to create games, they can't handle procedural generation that has any depth.
>>3852690>Advances in tech haven't led to advances in programming or better developers of video games.Understatement. It has facilitated a decline in technical skill and bloated inefficient jeetcode.
>>3852616Any attempt to replicate it would end up like NMS. Almost a decade of patches in NMS and the game still feels hollow and empty. I got my hopes up when Daggerfall Unity came out thinking the modders would come up with something cool since they have total exposure to the engine, but everything that has been released is shit. Everytime I post this there is always an idiot that comes in coping and lists off some mods. They're shit.Developers just don't have any vision. It's like they traded their imagination for tools.>>3852690It is entirely a game design problem not a programming problem. Full stop.
>>3852702>It is entirely a game design problem not a programming problem.I feel like these are interconnected. Design by programmers making their own tools seemed to be more creative.
>>3852709Engine devs almost always end up making boring tech demo "games" you've never heard of or shallow clones of something else. There are exceptions but those are just exceptions.
>>3852711Who doesn't make "games" now? Most of the creative games are made by small numbers of people.The exceptions are the only thing worth discussing. 99% of everything is shit.
>>3852711>Engine devs almost always end up making boring tech demo "games" you've never heard ofWolfenstein 3d engineInfinity engineBuild engineDoom engineQuake engineHalf-Life engine an offshoot of Quake but different enough to be worth includingUnreal engineSource engineCrysis engineClausewitz engineFrostbite engineVtm:R devs made their own engine but I can't remember what it's called
>>3852618Random generation can be highly effective when applied deliberately as with traditional roguelikes (e.g. Nethack, Diablo 1). When you know exactly where to go and what's around the corner like in Diablo 2 and Dark Souls, the whole facade of exploration crumbles away and the game just becomes a boring grind.>>3852685That's not the alternative.
>>3852618this, it's basically endless scenery with shit quests
>>3852758>>There are exceptions but those are just exceptions.>Lists every iconic engine like it is the normMost of those engines started as clones of eachother and for every one of those engines there are 100 that barely function. The problem is even worse today, since a bunch of bored programmers try to roll their own engine and then put their barely glued shit together on steam or itch.>>Frostbite engine>>Made in house> Ex-Frostbite engineer here, yes RW lost to UE3, but their engineers were also absorbed by Frostbite which became the dominant in-house engine. A lot of animosity about the decision to effectively kill RW still exists from ex-RW engineers to this day. A lot of tech was also absorbed by Frostbite too, so RW lives on to some degree, a lot of its code is still within Frostbite.
>>3853186>there are 100 that barely functionname 50
>>3853188Here you go https://www.myabandonware.com/
>>3853239yes, lots of great games there made by programmers. thanks for the support.
>>3853186>The problem is even worse today, since a bunch of bored programmers try to roll their own engineNo, this almost never happens anymore. You’ll note that almost all of those I listed were from the 90s, when computing resources were more limited, which necessitated having a higher skill level of programmer in the industry, to efficiently use limited resources.Nowadays everyone just licenses Unreal or Unity or whatever, and fills their game with bloated jeetcode and assets like six gorillion triangles to make a crate. You’re just not going to get something like Carmack making the Doom engine today.
>>3853302>You’re just not going to get something like Carmack making the Doom engine today.He's one in a billionso it would be unlikely no matter the circumstancesIs there there still room for a prophesized genius to emerge? Perchance
>>3852616You can put Wayward Realms in the thread topic, you don't have to do this roundabout thing where you imply the direction of the thread but wait for someone else mention it. Stupid faggot.>>3852618>StarfieldMinimum viable product and the worst example of procgen.
>>3853302Who gives a shit. What is the obsession with custom piece of shit engines.
>>3853339unreal looks and runs like shit and unity stutters on any big project thanks to C# garbage collection
>>3853340And your engine is going to be better?
>>3853341unreal is focused on movie production and shitty AI upscaling graphics, so that wouldn't be hard
>>3853311Wtf are you talking about you absolute schizo, I never even heard of ''Wayward Realms'', it isn't even a thing yet, looks like the classic vaporwave project
>>3853355>he hasn't heard of daggerfall with modern techHave you been living under a rock?
>>3853355wayward realms is literally made by the daggerfall devs
>>3852618>No one wants to because it’s all boring soulless shit.thissu. modern AI generated crap will still be crap.>slopzoomer poster spotted again. sign. sheesh. and brah.
You can have both hand crafted content and AI content if the AI content isn't lazy as shit. Red Dead 2 used NPC's as a way to keep things semi interesting no matter where you were on the map. If you commit a murder they spawn an NPC as a witness. This would be cool if it didn't happen EVERY SINGLE TIME. But the concept is there. But ya, you really wouldn't want endless miles of nothing. Even if it's a walking sim you'd then want the endless expanse to have hand crafted events and situations. So I'll just say, it can be done better than in the past, but the dream of unlimited content is still a dream.
>>3853395If.
>>3853339It's because slop devs use middleware to create slop. Look at all the garbage flooding Steam and elsewhere, it isn't custom engine shit by programmers. Gaming has gotten worse as the common contemporary developer has no technical skills.
>>3853395Procgen isn't AI you stupid cunt.
>>3852618ExactlyEvery single shrub and rock should be hand placedWhy did it get placed this way and not some other way?Because the artist "felt" like itThat feeling is what gives it meaning
>>3852618Life gets difficult and you become a snob temporarily when you realize that, since you cannot actually connect with any creator in a direct manner, then anything they make is, as far as you can be concerned, procedural. AI is a remixer. It's a camera. It's churning up what we give it. We had to give it that. It takes a photo of our culture. It's out culture. If you don't like looking in a mirror, then improve yourself.Hopefully for you the snobbery is temporary as you begin to realize that it's all made up and none of it matters. No one made a landscape and yet people find nature beautiful. Is the essentially-random process of physics somehow a thief that robs the mountain of beauty just because it has no soul guiding its hand to place the boulder *just so*? You are free to decide for yourself what you like. And you don't have to explain, rationalize, justify or defend it to anyone. You can like whatever you want just because you like it... If you find yourself feeling uncomfortable, it's because you're recognizing hypocrisy within yourself. Either be brave enough to ignore it or honest enough to correct your inconsistency. There are no alternatives.And, just like that, you'll begin to realize that it doesn't matter who or what made it. At all.
>>3853549Tell us. How is it different? In detail.
>>3853565>No one made a landscapeStopped reading here.
>>3852616I agree, but it needs to do something more than proc gen or it will just feel soulless. Like, Skyrim is plenty replayable and everything is always the same. Like, a Daggerfall sized land mass would be too much for anyone to discover in the first place. It was proc gen because it was the only way to make the game "big".
>>3853568It's not geological processes that created our world, it was JESUS hand-crafting it!
Why are retards trying to turn proc gen RPG design into an AI debate? That shit is the most boring of internet topics, just regurgitation about regurgitation from people who have nothing to say about anything.
>>3853603This but unironically
>>3853549The conversation evolved into talking about AI. You're not smart.
>>3853566It's algorithms vs training data, in real world applications they can be combined but they're not the same.
>>3852616After playing around with Daggerfall Unity and its mods, I doubt this concept would be very engaging in a modern high fidelity implementation.Its gameplay revolves around dungeon crawling and combat, everything else is just flavor. It works cause the bare-bones visuals are made mechanically interesting by randomizing the encounters, from NPCs to cities and dungeons.At the point where you can actually craft good looking believable environments, why not craft something handmade, which will always feel more engaging.This is why I believe they abandoned this concept for their future games.
>>3853562Yeah, placing a big rock scaled by 0.50 a few units to the right of a dead tree has so much meaning. It's almost shakespearean.
>>3852702It's both, among other things. Games should've spent more time increasing in scope instead of texture resolution.
>>3853717Yeah I guess if you literally ignore everything or you just somehow have no idea how any of this works, then sure, it's all random chaos and you can make up whatever corner your hot take bullshit backed you into. I've seldom seen anyone quite so thoroughly embarrassed as you are right now, and by your own hand, too.I'm curious: is driving a truck a completely different activity than driving a sedan? If you drive them to different cities, is the action of driving just ... different to you?
>>3852616Daggerfall is still too ambitious even for mordern hardware.
>>3854294lmao, look at this vague analogous butthurt.you got owned and are throwing a fit.
>>3853358>>3853359This is going to be vaporwave, mark my words
>>3854347I would call you a fag and vehemently disagree but Julian (their tech lead) passed away recently and the people they have on the podcasts are sounding like headless chickens. They're supposed to release an EA version before the end of the year so here's hoping it's not because I don't see similar games being released by goyslop AAA companies in the near future.
