>>3853276
It's just a classic case of a game with a reverse difficulty curve, with the game being obscenely hard right at the start because you have zero options and only becomes easier and easier as you progress because you get access to so much bullshit but the encounters don't scale. Every Owlcat game is like that.

>>3853276
Owlcat likes to inflate enemy stats and doesn't like to design their encounters much. On normal enemy stats are lowered, from what I remember, and on hard they are increased.
Optimize the party to your best ability, use Turn-Based with formations and constant management and play on Core instead. Or, you know, use Bag of Tricks and tweak the XP curve or gain so that you go out into the world at level 5+ at least.

>>3853276
you aren't abusing grease

>>3853292
* constant buff management, yeah. Prebuffs are necessary to reliably hit enemies for martials and to reliably CC them for casters.

>>3853292
>Owlcat likes to inflate enemy stats and doesn't like to design their encounters much. On normal enemy stats are lowered, from what I remember, and on hard they are increased.
I really hate that they do this. They give you customizable difficulty settings, which is nice, but the modifiers are obtuse and weird, and you have to pick a goofy combination of modifiers to approximate something close to the tabletop stat blocks, which obviously should be the default “normal”.

Is this game worth the trouble of doing an Iron man run?
I think it would be fun to do in CRPGs but Kingmaker has so much bullshit encounters early on like the Spider Swarm in the beginning that will assrape you if you arent prepared
You just die and restart and Normaly this is fine its not that there are any consequnces for reloading a save this isnt an old arcade game but somehow it takes me out of the moment to restart a section and prepare for specific encounters by prebuffing and bringin the right items to the fight when i as a character in the world have no idea that im gonna encounter a such a specific fight

>>3853353
Not worth it, Owlcat games are rather buggy and might fuck your run up regardless of what you do. All of them.

>>3853276
That's just how Kingmaker is, every time you explore chances are, you'll find some extremely overpowered enemy that's going to rape you to death

>>3853276
>play it on hard mode
>What am i doing wrong here?

you know what. Dont punch above your weight.

>>3853276
Just stack monk ac and crane style on two tanks keep one in front and one in the rear, build the rest how you want really.
I still wouldn't play it again without CoTW and bubble buffs but I get the no mod purism factor, they're just really good and feels integrated.

If you want a bigger advantage run less characters, one or two even, and uncheck shared party XP, which is dumb anyway, and a handicap by default since your benched characters are constantly siphoning the XP you earn. They'll get all the XP and level up much faster to get your over the early build gimpness hump.

Early game you might have to murder/tragically not be able to save a couple of party members before you get to switching options to be able to reduce party size. It's like that in Wrath but they get auto rezzed at the end of the prologue anyway.

>>3853353
Definitely not.

>>3853613
>Just stack monk ac and crane style on two tanks keep one in front and one in the rear, build the rest how you want really.
if this is genuine advice and not a meme, you should get your fucking ass kicked.

>>3853276
Didn't save on my second playthrough after the tutorial. First random fight were three elder mammoth level 12.
>reload
First encounter after beating tutorial are three elder water elementals level 9.
>reload
No random encounter for ages.

>>3853613
>Just stack monk ac and crane style on two tanks keep one in front and one in the rear, build the rest how you want really.
lmao

>>3853360
are there any CRPGs out there that are designed around an Ironman run and where doing one is worth the effort?
I really like Fire Emblem games and the games do improve in a lot of ways if youre doing an Iron man run
I just played FE6 and 7 and really enjoyed my time
Having to do it all in one try and rolling with the punches of losing one of your units really made the playthrough unique and added nice dramatic moments to it which i remember a lot more since they are not scripted but entirely the fault of my own doing

>>3853785
>are there any CRPGs out there that are designed around an Ironman run and where doing one is worth the effort?
No.

>>3853785
BG1

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>>3853276
draw your motivation from that one anon who started a thread some months back and it actually motivated him to finish the game

>>3853276
>again
You should the pitfalls of KM, anon. Going up in difficulty is just tedious.

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>>3853785
>are there any CRPGs out there that are designed around an Ironman run and where doing one is worth the effort?
Pillars of Eternity comes to mind, especially 2.

>>3853788
not unless you've memorized every single trap or use a cheatsheet
one mis-click and you are toast
and it takes a while to detect them so you need to move at slug's space

>>3853785
BG3 ironically
The hardest difficulty Honor mode, is ironman by default.
Also the game is quite easy even on Honor mode.

>>3853785
Pillars of eternity games

>>3853282
No, RPGs are generally like that. Or at least, any RPG that expands your tactical options as part of your character's growth.

Some RPGs try to not do that, but they are fundamentally failed gameplay designs when they do because numerical inflation is not growth (because bigger damage doesn't matter when target hit points grows, too).

>>3853795
Honestly, as much as I shit on Pillars Of Eternity around when those two were coming out, I did come around eventually. Today, PoE1 seems definitely primitive. The prose reads like it was written by sheltered child obsessed with Lord Of The Rings. But Deadfire still holds up very well (especially with a few tweak mods) and today I think it's a good example of RTwP combat done correctly.

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>>3853795
Balance KING:

>>3853790
This the one?
https://arch.b4k.dev/vrpg/thread/3795796/

>>3853785
>CRPGs out there that are designed around an Ironman run
Sounds incredibly retarded.

>>3854134
why?
Iron man modes are an option in tons of crpgs
Kingmaker even has an Ironman mode build into the main game so its clearly something people think it makes for an interesting challenge
It also creates a lot of tension with its gameplay when every mistake you make could lead to one of your characters dead or even your own

>>3854094
Well.... kind of, maybe. Except for that time when he literally said out loud in the interview that he doesn't like "spellcasters" either as a fantasy concept or as a mechanical class/genre and so he intentionally made sure that magic in PoE1/2 was not actually worth the action economy compared to just auto-attacking.
That's why it requires mods to fix the spells so that you don't end up with stupid shit like 10 damage and 2 seconds of -1 accuracy when you're character level 10 and casting level 5 spells...

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>>3854378
>i cheat in games

>>3854378
He did say that? No wonder it failed. Unironically sabotaging his life work, kek.

>>3853785
Nethack

>>3854407
>picrel
Ropekid is no John Romero.

>>3854378
Some of them are just insanely bad, like the web equivalent in poe1. It was clearly intentional sabotage.

>>3853912
>Or at least, any RPG that expands your tactical options as part of your character's growth.
No. In a well-designed game, the early encounters are simple to reflect your limited options and as you start to gain more options, the encounters also start to become more and more complex.

>>3854378
>don't like "spellcasters"
>instead of using or homebrewing an RPG system that has no spellcasters, make the spells bad to punish those who disagree with you
The absolute state

>>3854439
You don't get it, a cypher isn't a caster.
>he shoots coloured special effects effects..
Noo, ugh! He's not a caster
>but the sfx...

>>3854356
Why do you need forced something that you can do with a bit of self control? Then you have well polished games from say owlcat where you can and often will get bricked, fucked or completely stonewalled by technical difficulties if not actual difficulties killing days if not weeks of progress. Then you have games that require dozens if not several times that in hours with a vast majority of the content is carbon copy same between runs with a big decision 2/3 in that determines the ending. Why would you deny yourself the option to load from that point and see the second ending. Sure replayability, but having the option to do it doesn't take away that from you if you don't want to use it unlike this shit which does limit you. It also leads to lack of experimentation and muh meta builds because let's be honest most people are dumb, are shallow and would rather turn off their brain and follow a guide than risk I don't know, repeating the last 50 hours. And designing around that concept means they need to add a shitload of safety nets and mellow the difficulty curve and the complexity so the vast majority of the players that are shit and remain shit will feel good about themselves instead of getting filtered.

Call me old jaded asshole and I won't dispute but I just despise the concept as well as a whole lot of more modern culture crap memes. Muh hours, sure, you've got 500 hours on steam but that doesn't mean you didn't and won't continue to suck each minute lol. Muh achievements, cool, you need someone else to tell you how to have fun and then someone else to brag to so you feel validated. Muh ironman is more honorabu than savescumming. Who's forcing you to savescum? And I'd like to see you not save and save often if a game is eurojank prone to imploding with bugs or if there's a run ending pitfall of assfuckery behind every other corner and I value my time enough not to play thru the same part of the game for however hours just to fall in the next one.

>>3854479
I've seen like 20 hm runs fail due to the sharks gauntlet elevator. Hilarious.

>>3853785
Hey, the anon you asked here.
Underrail is pretty good for that, as long as you play something like AR and don't go for Oddity on Dominating.

>>3853276
Why does this game only have like 1 human male portrait that's actually cool and general enough
So many of the portraits just feel overly specific and do too much to imply a character

>>3854378
>and so he intentionally made sure that magic in PoE1/2 was not actually worth the action economy
wtf you on about negro?
PoE1 is dominated by casters.
Priest is number 1 and wiz is 2nd (1st if you value utility more) and druid is like third.
But Priest and Wizard are just on a whole other level.

PoE2 is more balanced, a lot things are viable and multiclasses too, but sill casters are the top of the foodchain both pure and multi

>>3854520
Despite lacking heavy armor, priest is ridiculously op in poe 1.

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>>3854514
>>>3853276 (OP) #
>Why does this game only have like 1 human male portrait that's actually cool and general enough
If you need more Human Fighter portraits just go to Pinterest and look for character art
Theres a bunch of artwork out there that fits the game and the site has a search function were it looks for artwork similar to what you entered
I have an entire folder full of human knights now that I use for all my crpg portraits

>>3854632
You can put them in heavy armor. You can put anyone in heavy armor. Just slows them down.

>>3854741
Right. I do remember now. AFAIK heavy armor is near useless in this game, as higher dps > higher survivability.

>>3854773
It’s good in the early game, but doesn’t scale well into the late game or PotD difficulty, because it’s just a flat amount of DR, while enemy damage keeps going up. That said, I still use it for flavor on characters who would should thematically use it. I even made a DnD cleric once, melee priest in heavy armor. Problem is, it’s more fun to theorycraft parties and think about the game than it is to actually replay it.

>>3854776
>late game or PotD difficulty, because it’s just a flat amount of DR, while enemy damage keeps going up
Sounds like it could've been easily avoided, if, if only someone would've put some thought into it.
>theorycraft
That's the only fun. Despite it being a cheap dnd clone. Can't pinpoint it, but propaganda is a leading factor that detoriates fun. Game collapses latest after reaching the city and poe 2, hell, it's just now a believable and relatable setting, coming from poe1.

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>>3853668
>>3853694
Whats wrong with Monk dipping?
pretty much every build if seen for Valerie recommends at least one lv dip in monk for crane style or two so you get evasion early on

>>3855223
It's a huge meme

>>3855230
A functioning meme.

>>3855223
>Whats wrong with Monk dipping?
Dipping is fucking stupid. Roll a pure class.

>>3855223
Absolutely nothing if you make it work but you know, shitposters will shitpost.

>>3855223
It is largely unnecessary. If you play on core or well-balanced custom difficulty (or something even easier), Valerie is fine with her default class and Stalwart Defender prestige class. If you play on Hard+, you use Valerie as Kinetic Knight. She is effective in both cases, and there is no need for dips.
Moreover, dipping by itself is a bad practice and most people recommending it just repeat Neoseeker shit take on how the game should be played.

>>3855383
Kinetic knight can easily solo the game. Played wotr blind, above veteran and my team usually dealt 0 damage, but the kinetic dwarf manhandled demon hordes (extra enemies).

>>3854447
>cypher isn't a caster
Animancy is real science not some magic nerd wankery, m'kay? Our OC donut steal NOT spellcasters are just better cause they are rooted in intellectual superiority
>tips fedora

>>3855560
>tips fedora
*returns tip*
Fellow gentleman

>>3855544
Well, yes. It is easy to optimize and versatile, it deals good damage and, depending on blast element, targets touch ac. Pretty busted, especially if you optimize, pick special gear and prebuff.
And Valerie stats are perfect for that. I just find playing Kineticist on Core or lower a bit of an overkill.

>>3854439
>instead of using or homebrewing an RPG system that has no spellcasters, make the spells bad to punish those who disagree with you
I mean. He literally did exactly that. He explicitly admitted to it in the same interview. He explained that in order to get the game launched he had to tolerate certain things so he did his best to "limit the damage" while fulfilling their obligations to get the project funded (read: keeping him employed because his dev team had a sword of Damocles hanging over it contingent upon PoE's commercial success, and the entire project, and their jobs, were only approved because they gathered the remaining funding through crowdfunding efforts... those crowdfunding efforts stipulating that donators wanted a D&D-like game, but WotC wasn't gonna license branded D&D to them....).

>>3855608
m'lady

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>>3855355

Sex with underaged crippled and scarred elf girls

Is that true that Paizo specifically forbid devs to make module editor like in NWN because they were afraid that people would start remaking official campaigns? Or Owlcat was just lazy and dumb and didn't bother to make the game replayable?
Why to even bother to make so many classes and races and not allow people to go balls deep into custom content and stories? You can run through campaign like twice with different builds and choices and then waste a couple of hours in infinite dungeon and that is it.

>>3853276
Their system isn't designed for RP. It's built for number-crunching and min-maxing.

Vanilla arcane sorceror, sage sorceror or sylvan sorcerer? Which is more fun for a second playthrough?

kill all sarenrae cucks

>>3855785
>Their system isn't designed for RP. It's built for number-crunching and min-maxing.
Skill issue, unironically. Just because you can be a munchkin min-maxer, doesn't mean that you need to.

>>3855626
I really don't get the Pf system. The adventures are easy af due to rest spam. Players are incredibly op. The game multipliwd the enemies by 12 and the stats by, some lasses are still op.

>>3855785
>Pf is rp heavy
... Is it?

>>3855223
>not making your companions monoclass goobers and getting the best out of them in desperate attempt to save the world from schizophrenic fairies/murderhobo demons/dimension hopping Rasputin
Ngmi

>>3855944
Multiclass>>monoclass

>>3856001
If you can’t make a satisfactory single-class character in AD&D, you have a problem.
If you can’t make a satisfactory single-class character in fucking Pathfinder, the world has a problem, namely you

>>3856008
>(you are the) world
Za warudo?

>>3856008
Thinking about playing this. Are the base classes (Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Thief) in Pathfinder really so satisfactory? I don't want to play some blue-haired OC nonsense.

>>3856273
>blue-haired OC nonsense
That's kinda the whole pozfinder deal dude. That anon is memeing you.

>>3856275
Gender-exclusive classes would sort out that nonsense.
No female paladins, monks, clerics, wizards, or fighters. No male dancers or strippers.

>>3856278
>clerics, wizards
Let's not get carried away now...

>>3856313
>shut the fuck up and make me a sandwich
>she does
>it's pretty good
>98.4% certain there's no arsenic inside
I'd call that sufficient WIS score.

>>3856273
Not at all. Install call of the wild and play as the best class ever: primalist. Alternatively as kineticist or magus.

>>3856273
>Are the base classes (Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Thief) in Pathfinder really so satisfactory?
Make a custom party with whatever you want and ignore all of the companions. This is a perfectly serviceable party. I like a slight spin on this, with a paladin MC (str fighter/tank/leader) a bard replacing the thief role (dex fighter/skill monkey/buffer), and backline caster cleric for buffs/blasting, and wizard for control/blasting.
Beat the game on “core” easily like this. I’m certain you could do fine with the strict classic fighter cleric thief mage. You can do whatever you want on normal or core, make reasonable and thematic sensible builds and you’ll do fine. Don’t listen to fags who say you need meme builds with six gorillion dips and cheese classes and shit.

>>3856283
I suppose they can be clerics of the great milk goddess. The domain would only be open to women exceeding a certain constitution threshold.

>>3856386
I will never play that mod, but damn if that wasn’t a clever idea.

>>3855383
He's a noob getting butchered on hard so I gave him one of the easiest build parameters to implement for fast AC boost which is of course the monk/crane dip. It's harder to make a monoclass Tower Shield user, which isn't really a monoclass anyway due to even more complex for noobs prestige class you mentioned Stalwart Defender.

"Dipping is a bad practice" "I'm repeating Neoseeker"
I can school Neoseeker and you both. Just because I am not going to laboriously get into each available option to satisfy your autism on a noob question I fired off in three lines doesn't make me the inferior build guy. I am one of the best, if not the best, on this board.

There's nothing wrong with dipping, except that it goes against RP sensibilities. I myself try to avoid it but frankly lots of PF is filled with useless bloat and it's easier to play my concepts via dip often in these games.
Multiclassing is usually the more interesting part of these systems so you're not locked into retarded dev choices like relying on buffs that disappear after a minute etc.

I allow people to think for themselves after seeing the outside parameters of the system, instead of trying to dictate what others do and how they play so if he wants to drop monk later he'll have seen one of the extreme parameters already.
Perhaps you've heard of these concepts called: advice, and suggestions before, or perhaps not since you probably come from a leftarded group think world.

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>>3856376
Core might be stretching it unless you know your way around the ruleset a bit. On Normal basically anything goes.

>>3856371
>primalist best class
Summoner with eidolon and an army would like to have a word
So would Cult Leader

>>3856943
>I am one of the best, if not the best, on this board.
Stopped reading here

>>3856954
Illiteracy is rough going in the modern era, good luck in your learning endeavors.

>>3856943
>He's a noob getting butchered on hard so I gave him one of the easiest build parameters to implement for fast AC boost which is of course the monk/crane dip.
Why not just tell him to pick any class with a dip? Also, the actual problem for most people, especially at the beginning is getting past enemy AC/saves.

>>3857027
Any class with a pet, rather.

How come there be no build planer for this game?
The biggest appeal for this kind of game is the freddom it gives you to build your character and how you can come up with the most ridicoulus overpowered character if you play your cards right
So why do i have to plan my character out with an Excell sheet?

>>3857705
>So why do i have to plan my character out with an Excell sheet
You are supposed to say “I get to make a spreadsheet!” Not “I have to make a spreadsheet”
You can also just write a text file. All you need is a list of what you will take at each level. I like to make a full custom party of generics and plan it all out at first level

Is there any mods that make the kingmaker portion of this game not ass? Like adding more advisors for example?

I remember one section of the game one of your advisors gets kidnapped and there's a hidden timer where he can just permanently die. And there's no one to replace him. shits retarded.

>>3856943
Wow, I really hurt your feelings there. You might want to find a better basis for your self-esteem. Building with Neoseeker guides seems to have failed you in that regard.

>>3855355
No it's not.

>>3857831
If you can’t make a satisfactory single classes character, in terms of both roleplay and mechanics, in fucking Pathfinder which literally has six gorillion single classes for every single niche you can think of, it’s literally a skill issue.

>>3857831
Well, the 3.PF family of engines has a complicated relationship with multiclassing.
Suffice to say that multiclassing isn't something that every character should do, and if you're not a veteran player then maybe you shouldn't be multiclassing until you do know what you're doing. Because although it can work, it's also a dangerous thing to do since it's one of the few ways you can actually make a useless character. A few guidelines for noobies:
Don't multiclass if you're a spellcaster who wants to be a spellcaster. (unless the prestige class explicitly says it progresses your class's spellcasting, and most of them do not)
If you're making a warrior type of character, most other classes aren't gonna really help you with that much. Either they will have lower BAB progress (Rogue) or they will have class features that don't really scale without heavy investment in that class (Ranger and Paladin), or they have a gimmick they pay a lot for which you aren't gonna use (Magus' Spell Combat / Spell Strike).
If you're making what's called a "gish" character, that is to say, a hybrid who has some spells and some combat prowess, it's possible to make really good ones. But it's also easy to fuck up because the action economy is not something your class will tell you about. If you're using a turn to cast a spell, you don't have any actions you can use to attack with (unless you're a Magus). If you're using your spells to buff up with steroids, that's time you aren't spending attacking so you have to know for sure the steroid is worth using in that moment. Alternatively, if your goal is to just be useful in a variety of situations, keep in mind that this game lets you control six characters. There's a lot of room on the party roster for a specialist in everything, which means a swiss-army-knife isn't really all that useful. And more importantly still, there's many classes which already fill that role while being a single class (Bard, Alchemist, Skald, and Inquisitor).

>>3854479
>Muh achievements, cool, you need someone else to tell you how to have fun and then someone else to brag to so you feel validated.
Might be in the minority, but I just use it as a checklist to see what I've done and what I still need to do. I don't care if anyone ever sees my achievements.

>Muh ironman is more honorabu than savescumming.
I've never heard this argument before. People actually use it? Ironman is just an added challenge to see if you can beat it without dying. That's why more recent games like BG3 and Rogue Trader let you keep your save and continue in normal mode if you die in ironman.

>>3854514
>Why does this game only have like 1 human male portrait that's actually cool and general enough
Probably because it was a kickstarter game so they made a general male/female portrait for each race. Most games are like that though and people just download art online.

>>3857855
>If you can’t make a satisfactory single classes character, in terms of both roleplay and mechanics, in fucking Pathfinder which literally has six gorillion single classes for every single niche you can think of, it’s literally a skill issue.
Not him, but there's a difference between satisfactory and functional. I can pick any class I want on core and below and go all 20 levels no problem and be satisfied. If I'm on unfair though you pretty much have to class dip to survive the early game. You'll always see builds that take monk+witch+vivisectionist to get Iceplant and a mutagen.

>>3857885
>I can pick any class I want on core and below and go all 20 levels no problem and be satisfied.
Correct.
>If I'm on unfair though you pretty much have to class dip to survive the early game.
The issue here is the bloatmaxxed difficulty setting.
>You'll always see builds that take monk+witch+vivisectionist to get Iceplant and a mutagen.
I won't see any such thing, personally, since it's a single player game and I roll my own custom party with builds of my own devising.

>>3853276
>What am i doing wrong here?
>play it on hard mode
Anything above normal in an Owlcat game is made for minmax multiclassing and prebattle buffstacking.

>>3857882
>it was a kickstarter game
that's a really lame excuse especially with all the other kickstarter crpg renaissance games being rich in portraits
>>3857900
on the other hand mowing non-challenging encounters on normal and below one after the other is mind-numbingly dull

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>>3857882
>>3857905
I'd say the real reason was because they went for IWD-style entire character portraits. I assume those take more time/money to actually draw compared to just a face.

>>3857885
>Oh no unfair is actually unfair
Fuck you people for making Owlcat nerf unfair in RT and turning it into story mode
Now everyone can get a participation trophy of beating "unfair"

>>3857948
>this faggot who beat unfair when cloud spells triggered 3 times a second.

>>3857948
RT is fundamentally going to be a story mode regardless of difficulty when you can either kill or CC every enemy before they get a chance to act. The only way to solve that is bloat enemy hp to a ridiculous degree, but then you just get wiped instantly by their bloated stats once they get a turn in. It's simply not a system that can handle any amount of min-maxing, and breaks easily even when you aren't trying to.

>>3857948
Pathfinder is the same, you're not special

>>3853282
The issue is more that the difficulty comes from a fixed stat adjustment, which is necessarily going to be far more impactful early when the increase is like 50% of the total score than it late game when it's like 10% tops.
Like late game the value of the difficulty stat bump is going to be equivalent to one high level buff. Difficulty gets completely eaten up by build variance.
Options wise you're pretty alright from the start.

>>3858063
Zero options does come into it if you are using the story-relevant party members instead of creating your own custom ones (and I don't even remember if Kingmaker gives you the option to create party members right at the start).

>>3858064
You have to wait until after you get to Olegs I believe. Early chapter 1 after tutorial

>>3858064
This is why I liked Solasta. You made your custom party at the start and kept them all the way through. The game even throws them a bit of story and voices, so they aren't robots.
Your party don't need extensive backgrounds, anyway. The important thing is supposed to be the current adventure they are on together.

>>3858077
Every cRPG is better with a custom party than the garbage companions modern devs create.

>>3858077
Is Solasta a good game?
I heard its a bit short and based around 5th edition DnD but its on sale regularly on gog

>>3858088
It's nothing groundbreaking and it is quite short with a low level cap, but it's still pretty fun. Gameplay-wise I'd say it's as good as the other cRPG offerings out.
The story, the setting, and the writing is cliche but it has its charm. Especially the banter between your party.

Watch out for soraks.

>>3857886
>I won't see any such thing, personally, since it's a single player game and I roll my own custom party with builds of my own devising.
You'll beat unfair WOTR with pure level 20 classes?

>>3858130
Why would I play on a retarded difficulty setting that just adds absurd stats and multiplies damage? The laziest and least interesting form of difficulty. IMO, proper difficulty is normal stats + more enemies + better AI + giving enemies additional abilities/spells. Stat bloat is fucking stupid.

>>3858136
Then your argument was meaningless. My point was you'll see class dips on the hardest difficulty. No shit you won't do it because you don't play on it.

>>3858136
>proper difficulty is
>more enemies
*rolls eyes*

>>3858136
A real difficulty setting would be a timer to decide your move.

>>3858130
people have soloed it with sorc and kineticist

yeah it's absolutely beatable with pure 20 classes
there are quite a few classes that don't need multi
and a lot more that the multi is just extra-cheese on top, not required
SS can tank even without multi

yes I've beaten both games on unfair, and no I haven't done a pure classes challenge on Kingmaker but played enough Unfair to know what I'm talking about
maybe I will do one next time I play it

>>3858154
I know it's possible, but then you're limited to the few classes that can do it. If you want to play other classes you're going to need to dip.

>>3858145
>My point was you'll see class dips on the hardest difficulty.
See that’s where you’re wrong, kiddo

>>3858182
You're free to believe that.

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>>3856313
>Bible says that women should never be in positions of spiritual authority.
Traditionally women were too involved with child-rearing to follow spirituality with the required dedication. Chaste women can be super spiritual and wise (Hypatia; Vestal Virgins; Athena archetype; Virgin Mary [per the concept]). Then again, chaste women are basically men, so your point wraps around.

>>3856275
liberalization starting at character creation was not a thing until 5e and critical roll. 4e had the same phb races and did not have this issue. Tieflings were very strong in pathfinder for having custom racial ability score modifiers though

>>3857831
I'm glad dipping is not a thing in the fantasy dice games I play now, but I do miss 3.5's prestige classes

>>3858136
the worst difficulty modes are the SMT/person ones where they're just like ' yeah the shop is x4 as expensive now' or worse ' we buffed this games mechanical gimmick on max difficulty so you should play on 4/5 instead of 5/5 to make the game harder'

>>3858380
fake ass christian not mentioning Joan D'Ark

>>3857754
you can make your own custom party members and they can be used as advisors
i used a custom wizard character with max int for my financial advisor because i didn't like the gnome and had him exiled but he was the only character who could be used for that role

>>3856950
Imagine adventuring with your own full party...

>>3859948
>you can make your own custom party members and they can be used as advisors

Am I retarded or was this never mentioned anywhere? Besides maybe a tooltip that's easily missed?

>>3858136
You don't want bragging rights? Are you even a gamer? Do you want to look bad in front of a live audience of complete strangers on the internet?

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>>3853276
Are any of the comabt manuevers worth it for a fighter?
Trip and Shield Bash look like the best options but they take a bunch of feats to get good and dont do that much
All Shield bash does is give you an additional d6 attack with you shield and it takes a bunch of feats and dex investment to make it not shit since you get a massive debuff for using a secondary weapon without the investments and trip means you lose out on your regular attack so if you dont sucessfuly trip youre opponent you just wasted your turn unless you take a bunch additonal feats and you get pummeling bully so that it does an auto trip attempt after an atack but with both of them youre not doing anything relavant in combat until youre at lv4 or so which is the finale of act 1
I fell like you could take a bunch of other more generic feats like thougness or weapon focus/weapon spec for extra hit chances and more damage or something like iron will for better saving throws which are immediately useful and stay usefull until the endgame

>>3860843
Shield bash works fine since it's basically just a two-weapon fighter. Trip is not worth spending an action on.

>>3860843
There’s a late game spiky shield that’s fun for a shield bashing build. My first playthrough I solo’d it with such a paladin. I fucking hate fey so much it’s unreal.

>>3853276
Turn the difficulty down

Do the Pathfinder games still have the extra spyware that people were freaking out over?

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Pathfinder games are in this weirs spot in terms of difficulty where if you play it on normal its braindead easy with the exception of one or two random encounters where the game just throws enemies at you that are immune to one type of attack or so that you weren't prepared for but otherwise pretty easy but if you turn the difficulty up a notch it becomes infuriatingly difficult
Enemies get a massive buff on all their stats and dealing with them just becomes tedious and bullshit

>>3861990
I like that they added granular difficulty options, but they did a very odd way of assigning them. They should have had “normal” been PnP stats, and then go from there as needed. There’s multiple conflicting settings that affect enemy stats and it requires convoluted combinations to get something that approaches PnP normal. I don’t think it satisfies anyone

>>3859970
>>3859948
>you can make your own custom party members and they can be used as advisors
...with a -4 penalty to all skill checks (mercenary debuff). So mercs are essentially useless in kingdom management.

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>>3853276
>mfw capital under siege
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsfiIW8_3Wc

>>3858380
>Chaste women can be super spiritual and wise (Hypatia; Vestal Virgins; Athena archetype; Virgin Mary [per the concept]). Then again, chaste women are basically men, so your point wraps around.
yeah religion is degenerate and proto-trannyism

>>3860843
Trip builds can be super nasty.

>>3863339
Trip sounds like it would be fun but the pnly way to make it viable is to make a two handed figter since he gets the ability to auto trip at the end of an atack at lv11
What are you gonna do until then with the character?

>>3863643
>the pnly way to make it viable is to make a two handed figter since he gets the ability to auto trip at the end of an atack
That's overstating it a bit. Trip can be viable without that - you're giving up your iterative attacks to trip but you only have one iterative attack before level 11 and you make up for that with the AoO when your target stands. You're also giving an AoO to any allies you have in range, forcing your opponent to waste their action standing and debuffing their AC.

You could probably also make a trip build through monk. They get leg sweep at level 5 iirc.

>>3863836
the problem is the way Combat manuevers are calculated youre always put at an disadvantage against an oponent so youre more likely to miss with trip and you have effectively wasted your round
If you go with the Two handed fighter route you get a free Trip attempt after your regular atack so you dont waste your turn completly

>>3863992
I remember doing a pure class human fauchard two handed fighter built for tripping in Kingmaker and WotR. Hilariously fun (especially enlarged) and extremely refreshing after feat starved classes like Paladin. Eventually you almost run out of good feats to take, you get so many

>>3854407
>i cheat in games
I do, regularly and I'm not ashamed. My preferred character is a full fighter and a full magic user at the same time with no compromise. My character is of course a special case, why would I play anyone else? He's just built different and doesn't conform to the usual rules and this is how it manifests. I don't care what rules the game has to limit this, I will use cheats to make it happen.

The old Baldur's Gate games were actually pretty accommodating, you could literally just pick fighter/mage and that was a perfectly valid choice, you were both a full fighter and a full mage at the same time, I didn't need to cheat at all, the only caveat was you split your EXP between them. But for Pathfinder they limit your spells to lower tiers if you pick a half caster like a magus, so I got a mod that lets you level multiple classes at the same time.

I love cheating in RPGs and bending and breaking the rules, if the game feels to easy as a result you can always turn up the difficulty.

>>3864009
I can very easily see someone losing their mind in the House at the End of Time.

>>3864009
For me, it’s buying items that aren’t for sale, by adding them to my inventory and then deducting the appropriate amount of money, as if I had purchased it from a vendor

>>3862135
>Inon Zur
There is a track in WOTR which reminded of the ambient music in NV

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>>3864009
>I do, regularly and I'm not ashamed. My preferred character is a full fighter and a full magic user at the same time with no compromise. My character is of course a special case, why would I play anyone else? He's just built different and doesn't conform to the usual rules and this is how it manifests. I don't care what rules the game has to limit this, I will use cheats to make it happen.
Based Anon for simply playing to have fun

>>3864024
I do this, I also modify weapons to fit my build, oh look its a perfect weapon for my character, but whoops its scimitar instead of a longsword. I'll just make it a longsword because I like longswords better than scimitars.

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>Valerie the Tank of the group
>Best way to build her is to max her persuassion skill and giver her Dazzling Display and Shatter defense to make us of her high Charisma stat and intimitade the mobs for crowd control
>Amiri Barbarian DPS of the Group
>Best way to build her is to max her persuassion skill and give her Dreadful carnage/Shatter Defense to intimidate the mob enemeys for crowd control and capitalise on AoO when they run away
>Regongar the Magic/Melee Hybrid of the group
>Best way to build him is to max his persuassion skil and give him Cornugon Smash/Shatter Defense to deal with mobs and crowd control
>Main Character is the face of the group
>Make him a two handed Polarm character with cleave for crowd control and to fill a role in the group
>Even he profits from Intimitadion feats like Cornugon Smash or Shatter defense since he can follow up with a bunch of AoO when they start running and he already has a bunch of ranks in persuassion
Make us of his high Charisma stat and Intimitade mob enimes and crowd control
I really dont like how similiar all the melee characters fell and how relient they are on intimitadion to get the most out of them
They all fuflill vastly different roles in the group but they all fell samy when they use the same feats and all rely on intimidating their enemies and making them run for AoO or just debuffing them

>>3864582
>I really dont like how similiar all the melee characters fell and how relient they are on intimitadion to get the most out of them
That's on you for building four intimidation-focused melee characters.

Yes, Shatter Defenses is worth purchasing for everyone but that doesn't mean everyone needs to pump intimidate or use dazzling display. So long as you've got one person capable of reliably applying shaken, there's no need for the rest of your guys to waste skills/feats on it.

>capitalise on AoO when they run away
>Even he profits from Intimitadion feats like Cornugon Smash or Shatter defense since he can follow up with a bunch of AoO when they start running
Also, what the fuck are you talking about?
Demoralise et al apply shaken, they don't apply frightened. Why the fuck are people running away? Did you dip Thug for your entire party? No shit they feel similar then.

>>3864776
I gave Amiri two levels in thug to apply shaken and to give her evasion
She applies shaken to enough opponents that my other mele characters get a bunch of AoO in now thanks to her

>>3864582
cute who is the artist?

>>3864582
>build four characters to play exactly the same
>wtf why do they feel the same to play?
Please applaud.

>>3866255
Kui Ryōko

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>>3864582
roll

>>3866361
This is just a cheap attempt to keep the thread bumped.

>>3866548
Well, I didn't get one of the fags at least.

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>>3860843
Cleave is really fun to use and the best way for a regular figther to deal with all the hordes of enemies the game throws at you
I have a two handed fighter with a 6 feet polearm for maximum reach
You can easily hit 4 or 5 enemies that way if you go down the cleave line after making a full atack on one enemy with cleaving finish
You also get a bonus on Disarm and Sunder attempts but i didnt find them very useful to use

>>3864582
You know you don't have to build intimitank on everyone... By the way, cleave is the better build for Amiri. Reg is a Magus and has better things to do with his action economy than intimidate enemies.
And you don't have to build a martial main character. You could literally be anything, and there are no Druid companions ... in an "explore the wilderness and deal with fairies, magical beasts and plants" campaign...

>>3864009
Gestalt classing isn't really a cheat if you divide XP between them like the old editions of D&D did it. But the problem was that still wasn't enough for the special snowflakes who wanted to be the same class levels as everyone else and just ignore XP.
The problem, really, was the "lol I don't care about your rules" attitude. Everyone else has to abide by rules at this table, you are not special.

In single-player RPGs though no one fucking cares. Do whatever you want. No one is impressed by your ability to open ToyBox and fiddle with numbers, kiddo. No one. We don't fucking care. Go play your little game, dude.

>>3863992
It's necessary to limit the accuracy of combat maneuvers because they don't cost anything but action economy to use them. Spells are limited per day. Combat maneuvers you can literally do every six seconds if you feel like it. So yes, they're less reliable. And honestly they should not be unlimited in usage at all. You should have a number of attempts per day equal to 1 + your constitution modifier which is spent to pay for any of your combat maneuver attempts and if you fail the attempt then you still pay the point from your maneuver pool.
And yes, this same logic should be applied to their weapon attacks, too. You shouldn't be able to make an unlimited number of attacks per day. You should only be able to swing 1 + your level + your con mod number of times per day. When you run out of swings, you have to sleep to recover them. That would be fair. That would keep martials on an even footing with the casters, finally.

>>3863339
Only because the video game treats Prone as a complete disable. You can't do anything BUT attempt to stand up from Prone. That's **RADICALLY** game-breaking overpowered compared to tabletop.

>>3868214
how does it work in tabletop then?
What can a guy do that just fall falt down his ass besides standing up

>>3868222
Here's a link directly to the Prone Condition on the SRD where you can see for yourself:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/GAMEMASTERING/CONDITIONS/#prone

So as you can see, you can still do anything you want while you're Prone, basically, except for using bows. Crossbows are still functional while Prone (in fact, historically, most crossbows were meant to be used prone, using your feet to aim the device along your entire body, because you have a lower profile while on top of a fortification wall). You can still attack with a melee weapon. You can still cast spells. You can even still move, it just reduces the speed of your movement (normally you can spend a Move Action to crawl 5 feet while you're Prone, and unlike a 5-Foot Step, this would provoke an Attack Of Opportunity while you do so). There's a feat specifically for increasing your movement rate while you're Prone, which kind of condenses a lot of the relevant parts of the Combat rules, you can see it here:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fast-crawl/

TL;DR: you can act normally while Prone. You're just easier to hit and it's harder for you to hit others. You can still cast spells, you can still retrieve an item from your belt or whatever, you can still move, you can still talk to people, you can still control your character and you are not helpless. You have full Actions, you can do anything you want. Prone just slows your movement and alters your accuracy and AC while you're Prone.

>>3868231
This is just stupid
If youre just a normal person while prone that whats the point?
There should be a bigger penalty for being knocked prone

>>3869394
Sweetheart... I don't know how to explain this to you, but most people are not incapacitated like beached whales while they are laying down. Most people are healthy enough to, like, move and stuff. What's weird and unrealistic is your notion that laying down somehow renders people helpless.

>>3869394
Also, being prone is already severe enough as it is since it gives a massive bonus for enemies in melee to hit you, and they get an attack of opportunity against you when you try to stand up while they can reach you (there's ways to stand without provoking, but it's not default and usually expensive) and you basically can't get away from an enemy like that.