>complex system (BG 2, pathfinder wotr)>gooning (mass effect, ff, bg 3)>insanely large game/story (bg 3, pathfinder wotr, ff, roguetrader)>being an op godlike king (pathfinder, ff, bg2 throne, roguetrader)>a clear vision what the game is about (see all of the above)Why is this so difficult for other devs? (cough dragon age cough)
If you care about Bioware in any way since 2010, then you don't know the first thing about good vidya RPGs.
>>3853902>complex system (BG 2, pathfinder wotr)?D&D 2e in particular is very simplistic and character progression is more or less linear.
>>3853902>insanely large game>bg 3what?bg3 was fucking TINY>being an op godlike kingno you need to earn itand it needs a massive storyline to deserve itbg originals were nice for it although it could still use some improvementsyou need to suffer in early levels, take every opportunity you can for gold and exp but really really suffermid-levels you are cool, you need tactics and a good build to progressend-game you are OP god>gooningfuck romanceshot chicks sure, none of that woke shitbut romances and sex with pixels are fucking gay as fuck and the insidious cancer that killed the genre>complex systemI agree but those games aren't good examplesyou need a lot of utility too not just buff and blastand necessary utility without which you can't progress (thief and mage especially should be necessary)
>>3853902>Why is this so difficult for other devs?>complex system (BG 2, pathfinder wotr)Because suits in a blackboard say that this stuff will decrease sales cause it assumes gamers are tards and did their "research" on fat ugly woke SJWs who never even play the game.Oblivion remaster was what proved them wrong as all the zoomers admitted they were wrong and they now "get it" why we called Skyrim dumbed-down and stupidAlas they never felt true freedom like with Morrowind.>insanely large game/story (bg 3, pathfinder wotr, ff, roguetrader)again the market is to blameyou are supposed to pump and dump everything>a clear vision what the game is about can't when in modern corp world has to be approved by 10 different managers many of which haven't even touched a game in their lives>gooning forbidden cause it makes fat woke SJWs seethe
>>3854076>what?>bg3 was fucking TINYI wouldn't call it "insanely large", but it's not a tiny game. Probably 80-100 hours for a completionist first playthrough. And that's with them cutting like 40% of act 3.
>>3853902you got most of it wrong.Clearly the most important aspects are:Selfinsert protag;Romances/eye candy;Easy to learn battle system or no battle system at all;Good 3D graphics/2D art.
>>3853902>>complex system (BG 2, pathfinder wotr)Hot takes incoming, run away, pluck your ears, get ready to play devil's advocate1: most RPGs get complex enough on hard difficulty2: BG2 could be streamlined greatly without losing depthBack to first point, normal difficulty is "story mode" for anyone familiar with RPGs. If you play on normal, you've only got yourself to blame.
>>385408680 hours is tiny for an RPGit would be OKish if there was a sequel and you progressed after the story endedbut there isn't going to be one
>>3854532>80 hours is tiny for an RPGWhatever you say.
>>3854532>80 hours is tiny for an RPGMaybe for MMORPGs
>>3854076>>being an op godlike kingNot necessarily. Playing as the bad guy in bof 4 was fun. He was alone, had limited healing and the enemies had action economy on their side. Despite being stronger than almost every enemy, they are outnumbering the villain, hence a tactical approach is needed.
>>3854076>you need a lot of utility too not just buff and blastLike what? Games get more simplistic. Playing bg2 as kid was awesome, as I didn't get the system and had to guess what is what.
>>3854153>1: most RPGs get complex enough on hard difficultyStrong disagree. Pigeonholing isn't complex.
Pathfinder is slop, POE moggs it easily.
I don’t get it. Do you people enjoy responding to low effort bait threads over and over? There isn’t even anything new here it’s the same shit day-in-day-out.
>>3853902>why it is difficult to make good productduh cos it is just make good game 4 headfor example pathfinder has horrid world building, when I saw 60-80s computer tech in the medieval fantasy setting coexisting perfectly well with illiterate peasants without any explanation of how it is possible whatsoever I straight up quit. I dont care how good other shit is this is completely unacceptable.also rpg is mainly about story writing and good story writers in game industry (and in film as well) are extremely rare cos in the west whole thing was overtaken by crazy leftists and their idea of a story is mystery boxex and fetch quests and old character ressurection acting as a dressing to endless, blatant, hardcore, grinding ideology pushing. seriously, talking about cinema you can take any non-serious action hero film which has barely anything to do with a story like chronicles of riddick or demolition man or terminatior or matrix or lots of other things and can find background worldbuilding which far surpasses anything which came ever since.most glaring example of this is bg3 vs tranny age trannyguard (altho cisquisition was already bad and bioware died with rgb eding in me3 which exposed them fully). anyway, back to bg3 vs tranny guard. bg3 story is not complex but it is masterfully written with good motivation for the player, with main threat being unknown and morfing but also obvious (absolute into dead three but they are all just pawns of the mindflayers at the end, and whole story revolves about mindflayers in every aspect). its beutiful and elegant. and worldbuilding of dgd, while its already full of propoganda by making fantasy setting multicultural paradise, still has such strong and powerful concept of mindflayers that it outweights downsides of having modern literacy and dealing with refugees amnd troons (which you can kill which also somehow redeems it).now compare this to tranny guard which has later wow nonsensical worldbuilding + troons.
>adapted dnd combat systems are complexUhhhhhh no.They're hollowed out shells of what combat is supposed to be in D&D with a competent DM.Nine times out of ten they're two-dimensional, no environmental influences whatsoever. The AI is, without fail, completely lacking in all these games. Doesn't know how to flank, doesn't know how to combine abilities between characters. Just laughably simple.There are literally no tactical elements at play. The combat comes down to stacking buffs and debuffs on the player side and artificially pumping up numbers on the enemy side, either stat-wise or numbers of combatants.
>>3854676>bg3 story is not complex but it is masterfully written>its beutiful and elegant.This has to be bait. BG3 is full of tranny garbage as well, “feminine penises” in character creation, and Shadowheart heckin’ punches Nazis who misgender her tranny friend
>>3854737>The AI is, without fail, completely lacking in all these gamesDid you know that enemy AI was already nerfed during the development of BG1?Does anyone have a good guess on why advanced enemy AI might not be desirable?
>>3854737then play SCS or tactics remix BG with house rules for extra challengeEven low level combat can be very funhttps://youtu.be/3C1Ol53_J4A?list=PLAmVMMzG6qEqK5mSXC2QFz67MQ7J_3fCj&t=18121and high level is absolutely bonkers, this Abigail fight took almost an hourhttps://youtu.be/wu4jBLU5U0E?list=PL9VJninnnZ-on-cwFys-W4gIi1gaWYlwX&t=10497Pic is dispel and countermagic table for SCS, you wont touch most mages without pealing them like an onion from defenses and various sequencers and contingencies first. No RPG combat system felt even half as fun to play as BG2 for me.
>>3854762SCS doesn't make the BG trilogy any harder, retard. It's literally the same loop over and over in these games. Buff, dispel, debuff, rinse and repeat.Do you have a learning disability or something, dipshit? I'm talking about TACTICS, not rock paper scissors.
No bro you don't get it spell combat with an extra twenty steps IS tactical, BG doesn't need flanking or surprise rounds or facing or any of that stuff, also here's your improved ai>chugs potion and goes invisible for backstab damage regardless of where he's facing, even though you can only backstab from behind and this is totally not cheating
>>3854746Because then they couldn't pad the game with hours of trash encounters instead of using a handful of well-designed memorable encounters that were more creative, rewarding and harder to beat.
>>3854778The game could have trash fights with advanced AIDoes anyone besides this retarded tranny have a guess?
>>3854781>they couldn't pad the game out>yeah but they couldBut they wouldn't need to, dumbass.Would anyone care to hazard a guess as to what IQ in the double digits this fucking numbnuts has?
Did you know that the BG1 devs actually had a bigger story planned, and more spells? And more classes? And a third game?Can anyone hazard a guess as to why none of these were desirable?
>>3854783>>3854785Tranny crash out, some entertainment at least
>>3854766>xcom is just running from cover to cover and shooting, theres nothing tactical about iti also see you have no played it cause you are so full of shit talking about stat bloat.Mages/clerics spell books get randomized so each installation is a bit different, there are 4 different defense mechanism on mages + various contingencies you have to counter with limited resources you get access to. its not chess but still a lot more complex and tactical than majority of RPGs which are pure stat checks. Go ahead tell us about your favorite complex tactical RPG faggot
>>3854788>xcom is just running from cover to cover and shooting, theres nothing tactical about itIt's by no means a complex tactics game but it has a number of tactical mechanics that make it viable to call it a tactics game, especially if modded with brutal ai and similar features. So no, your greentext explanation is a misleading oversimplification, whereas mine isn't. You have terrain factors, cover factors, various types of weapons both melee and ranged, differing goals and ways of completing a tactical map. Baldur's Gate does not have these things at any remotely equivalent level.It does not have ai that plays by the same rules you do, it does not have terrain advantages and disadvantages, it does not have combat spacing or facing except in an incredibly rudimentary form, and again, the rules aren't the same for the AI, superficially for example with thieves and backstabbing.No amount of pointing out how the same handful of randomized rock paper scissors will change this, nor will it give any level of comparable complexity to an actual tactical game. You've said nothing about what amounts to half the combat in this game, namely ranged and melee, because you know there is nothing to talk about when it comes to mechanical complexity.>its not chess but still a lot more complex and tactical than majority of RPGs which are pure stat checks. Go ahead tell us about your favorite complex tactical RPG faggotI don't play CRPGs for tactics, I play tactical games. I don't play Bg or Pathfinder under the illusion that these are complex tactical games, I play them to enjoy them as occasional forays into min-maxing. I play Deus Ex or New Vegas when I want to play a good RPG. I'll play Jagged Alliance 2 with a tailored 1.13 when I want to play a strong tactics game.
>>3853902Fuck do you even mean "gooning"? What is "gooning"? Are you incapable of using actual words to convey meaning? Do you just mean attractive female characters? Why not just say that?
>>3853905If you care about Bioware in the first place, then you don't know the first thing about good vidya RPGs.
>>3854793>JA2High IQ gameplay of getting up on roof and shooting to lure braindead AI which suicides one by one, it just screams tactical depth>New Vegas An RPG with the most braindead combat and enemy AI imaginable is a game you enjoy, yet somehow BG with SCS is bad because it lacks tactical depth, i will just ignore you from now on.
>>3854804Did you conveniently ignore the part where I specifically said "1.13"? And then let me add to that: the sevenFM build.>An RPG with the most braindead combat and enemy AI imaginable is a game you enjoy, yet somehow BG with SCS is bad because it lacks tactical depthNew Vegas isn't a tactics game, it's an FPS. There's no comparison. It's also a great RPG, like, infinitely better than the original BG series in terms of reactivity.>i will just ignore you from now on.I accept your slack-jawed concession and encourage others to take note of what happens when you raise a generation of kids on d&d video games that have never actually played tabletop
>>3854815>the sevenFM buildSo sitting behind cover and spraying with ARs, tactical possibilities of that game doesnt change much its mostly flanking and leapfrogging from cover to cover, once you figure out the gameplay loop you do basically checklist of the same things every fight its not much deeper than BG SCS combat. BTW funny how you shit on enemy number increase in SCS when 1.13 literally does the same, spams you with stupid amount of enemies in top gear but in case of JA2 it magically makes the game more tactical lmao. Not surprised about inconstancy here, somebody who jerkoffs shitty game like new vegas is guaranteed to be a retard.
>>3854845>sitting behind cover and spraying with ARs, tactical possibilities of that game doesnt change much its mostly flanking and leapfrogging from cover to cover, once you figure out the gameplay loop you do basically checklist of the same things every fight its not much deeper than BG SCS combatYes it is, you have spying, you have stealth, you have night vs day ops, you have morale, you have suppression, various types of melee weapons vs various types of ranged weapons, armor and weapon modifications, fortification building, enemy roles, and so on and so forth. We could go on for hours. So no, tactically there is no comparison. Your ESL is showing and you've swiftly moved to not replying to any point made about SCS because you have no defense for any of the points I made. And the funny thing is, with things like GemRB and examples like Temnix's mods, it's clear that some amount degree of tactical depth could be added to the game, but you and people like you are too fixated on numbers going up to recognise it.
>>3854740seems like its your problem where you chosen to become tranny, experienced story in a tranny way and now seething cos game exposed youmy experience was drastically different and extremely based, i was killing refugees, fucking drows, killing druids, putting shadowslut in her place, fucking frogs, and was overally having based experience where I could trully do the fuck I wanted and game would respect my choice which is not even something new vegas managed to achieve which makes bg3s writing all more impressive.
>>3853902>How to make a succesful vrpgI would compile data about mechanics, plots and features, make the IA analyze to tell me which ones are the most successful then use that data to outsource the actual development to a chinese or idk another country who based his economy in outsourcing, but I would use IA all the way just to spite on people
>>3854863>is not even something new vegas managed to achieveMy holy Tim Cain, HERESY!
>>3854859>tranny discord newspeak>new vegas checks outHilarious post considering you have morale, much deeper itemization, party composition and character and item customization in bg, but theres nothing tactical about any of those because they belongs to strategic layer you retarded pseud. Waiting until the night to attack a sector is a strategy every JA2 beginner knows not tactics, night combat makes the game easier, you abuse nightvision advantage over retarded A it requires 0 thought you you clueless faggot. Nothing you write is correct, all you do is reinforce my belief that unapologetic New Vegas fanatics are hopeless retards.
>>3854863>yes, I enjoyed and praised the tranny game, but I played the tranny game in a heckin’ BASED way. It’s not like those other, non-based tranny gamesWe are reaching levels of cope that shouldn’t even be possible.
>>3854762I would actually want a reverse version of SCS that makes mages less effective. I hate mage fights. Number one cause of reloads and monotonous play for me.Though I looked at all the optional things in SCS, and many of them seemed quite interesting. The provision system for example. More random encounters. Stuff like that.
>>3855349the IWD spells component adds a lot of good spells for clerics and druids(especially with shapeshifting changes), makes them really strong and fun to play too.
>>3855411I may just give SCS a go next time I replay. I just realized my hatred for mages has prepared me well for an inquisitor roleplay.
>>3853902>1 Suits always want to capitalize on contemporary trends, which by definition, oppose timeless storytelling >2 Political activism corrupts the mind of artists. It gives them some kind of tunnel vision that impairs creativity by forcing them to be as blunt and direct as possible which restrict their freedom of creation (as things need to reflect reality)
>>3855491inquisitor dispel is nerfed in SCS and is shit tier
>>3855769>inquisitor dispel is nerfed in SCSIt's optional
>>3853905>>3854803oh look, two 14-yr-olds are having a contrarian edgelord contest! May the best strip-mall-brand katana win!
>>3854737DND's system was always shit, regardless of edition. The only reason anyone used it is name-brand recognition meant no competition. d20 was slightly less shit, but still shit.>Why yes I do own GURPs how did u know?
This "not an rpg" mogs your favorite RPG's combat system. I'd start by studying what they did right.
>>3855804Probably a factor was being a roguelike with permadeath, which grants combat the permission to be dangerous, high-stakes, and engaging for the right crowd.
>>3855825good observation. The real problem with RPGs is that the worst consequence for failure is "oh no i have to go back 5 minutes to the last auto-save and do something besides mash the attack button". And even that's rare nowdays.
>>3855804dogshit game and abysmal combat, nigger tier opinion
>>3854898I am very sorry for you that you have to cope with framing a normal enjoyable playthrough of a game everyone can experience as a copebut then again, not everyone can handle freedom, maybe you are just like the most and cannot say no to shadowheart when she tells you shes a massive whore due to animalistic simp instinct taking over. sucks to suck.
>>3855800>contrariancontrarian would be to claim bioware were capable of making good games to begin with
>>3854762>applying the same algorithm over and over again is considered top intellectual activity by SCS-anonlol
