>>3854075
Yeah, the honeymoon phase is nice for this game, until you realize what that scope did to the game.

>>3854077
>realize what the scope did to the game
What did it do besides take the guy forever to release it?

>>3854078
If you don't know, you won't understand.

>>3854118
Go ahead and try me, anon-- I'm curious

>>3854077
The world can certainly start to feel empty at a point, and the lack of any real npc reaction other than the world state changes really hurts it, but I think by the time those really catch up to you, you've probably put enough hours in the game and made at least some kind of story for yourself where it was still worth playing.
And really at it's core I think it has more in common with the Sims than most RPGs anyway once you look past the aesthetic.

>>3854075
>>3854075
I hate to agree with you. When I started playing this game, I thought "Jankie ass shit that doesn't make any sense."
After playing for nearly 100 hours I just kept thinking, "Run here. Run there. Steal this. Kill you. Pack a backpack full of heavy things. Carry this body around. Replace my arms. Add this person to my party." all while spending another 500 or more hours on just my first playthrough. Second playthrough I actually set a goal and streamlined many things.
Have over 2k hours in Kenshi and can't wait for Kenshi 2.

>>3854177
>lack of any real npc reaction
NTA but this is why I couldn't get very into it. I loved the premise, but NPCs felt too static for my liking, and training skills sounded too grindy (didn't play for a long, but a lot of advice I saw when I searched involved basically grinding skill levels with things like training dummies until you hit a point you could actually go around and explore).

>>3854195
>(didn't play for a long, but a lot of advice I saw when I searched involved basically grinding
Haven't played Kenshi, but autistic people recommend grinding no matter what, and I wouldn't trust their judgement

>>3854204
You can raise some combat stats to average levels pretty quickly by cheesing
But to get to 80-100 you have to do autistic rituals for many hours
Easiest way to play the kenshi is to start in slave camp and grind stealth/assassination to ko everyone you want(cant kill em doe lol) it takes like 2 hours at worst and after that you can loot almost everyone and everything in the game

>>3854075
And it was successful enough he's making Kenshi 2 with an actual dev team and stuff this time.

>>3854168
It's a place. There isn't really any end game. Everything can change and you'll be left with one badly mutilated guy and have to crawl to safety to rebuild somewhere but it's not game over. Even if you're controlling a lot of guys and you have a massive base and you're safe, that's not the end. You're still surrounded by nations and monsters and they come by periodically and you have to fight them off and manage your colony in the process. You have to do that while exploring to find ancient lost technology so that you can research improvements. There isn't an end. You'd have to conquer the entire world such that no living thing remains moving that isn't in your faction... good luck with that. And even then aren't there random spawns / respawns? So.

It's a place. Not a game. It's a world simulation. You aren't a player, you're a perspective.

>>3854075
The Sandbox means nothing because it doesn’t have a real economy and you can’t actually manage a realm or do anything interesting once you get powerful enough

>>3854281
>There isn't really any end game.
Collecting all meitou weapons.
Collecting all bounties.
Triggering world states to shape the world in your image.

>>3854286
Those are long term goals but they aren't the end of the game. There's a difference.

>>3854287
Tomato, tomato.

>>3854288
I keep forgetting, words don't even matter. Just make some shit up. You're always right and can never be wrong because they'd have to use words to tell you that you're wrong and you've already decided that "you're wrong" means "you're right". Whatever that means.

Whatever anything means.

Tomato, tomato tomato tomato, tomato tomato. Tomato? Tomato.

>>3854297
>autism

>>3854281
>There isn't really any end game
The end game is you deciding you're done playing as it should be.
>the lack of any real npc reaction other than the world state changes really hurts it
He's addicted to cyoa player-centric worlds design.
>Even if you're controlling a lot of guys and you have a massive base and you're safe, that's not the end. You're still surrounded by nations and monsters and they come by periodically and you have to fight them off and manage your colony in the process. You have to do that while exploring to find ancient lost technology so that you can research improvements
These are all good things. The wasteland is dangerous.
>You have to do that while exploring to find ancient lost technology so that you can research improvements.
Like any other rpg.
>You'd have to conquer the entire world such that no living thing remains moving that isn't in your faction... good luck with that. And even then aren't there random spawns / respawns? So.
Not true at all. You at best only have to wipe out the factions who are adjacent enough to you to need extermination. Or you can simply just send out the envoy to participate in prayer day and avoid having to fight the Holy Nation entirely. Literally free and as long as you don't have any skeletons they're fine with you having subhuman slaves. Not settling near UC territory for instance avoids all of their raids.
>And even then aren't there random spawns / respawns?
There are random spawns and respawns as long as those factions exist. Fauna respawns regularly.
>It's a place. Not a game. It's a world simulation.
Kenshi is a game with a world simulation worked into the gameplay. There's a lot of unrealized potential in the game. But it does quite well.
>You aren't a player
By definition you are playing a game and hence you are the player.

>>3854168
No, you aren't, you're reacting.

>le emergent gameplay
>"the systems are shallow as shit"
>"dude it doesn't matter just make it up in your head like me"

>>3854309
>dude it doesn't matter just make it up in your head like me
Games were more fun in the 90s as a kid whilst doing this. Now faggots need "cheevos" and shit.

>>3854311
I have 2K hours in rimworld and 150 in kenshi thank you very much
The day you faggots accept that "emergent gameplay" is not an excuse for the very shallow level of engagement and replayability this game has we'll make a giant leap in those conversations

>>3854302
>Kenshi is a game with a world simulation worked into the gameplay. There's a lot of unrealized potential in the game. But it does quite well.
Hard disagree. The actual interactions between your team, your base, and the world is almost non-existent outside a few set pieces. It's just a mostly dead sandbox to explore within and collect vague "lore". It should never have incorporated base building or had the amount of factions it does, the dev tried too much and fell flat on his face before calling it quits. Hopefully he'll learn for Kenshi 2.

>>3854311
I never did this in the 90s. I actually had fun playing the games. What specific 90s RPG are you talking about, that you had to make shit up to enjoy it? Daggerfall? That's also a poorly made game.

>>3854318
Daggerfall was an impressive tech demo, given the technology available at the time. And it was indeed impressive for that reason. And the devs understood what it was and never pretended it was anything else.

What has happened is that your definitions of what "a game" is and what it's supposed to be have evolved. You're thirty years of cultural development removed from that era. You therefore have these contemporary notions about game design, about what the experience of playing a game is supposed to be like. But your modern notions are just inapplicable to that distant time. It wasn't poorly made. It just wasn't what you are expecting. It couldn't even be made today for that reason.

Just like you couldn't build a giant pyramid tomb today. Not because we lack the technology. But because the pyramids were the creations of an alien culture for alien reasons and using alien socio-economic systems. The physical artifact of the piled stones is not the only thing a pyramid is. It's everything else that went into its creation.

That's what you're missing when you misjudge an historical artifact: the intangible context of its place in history. What you're demonstrating here and now is exactly why you are not an historian. You're showing exactly what historians and anthropologists have to train for decades to deal with. It's why they're professionals and you're not.

You might as well lecture us all about quantum physics, because you'd have as much competence in that area of human wisdom.

>>3854382
Impressive display of nonsense. I almost slightly believe you believe it, but you went a little too hard at the end.
>You're thirty years of cultural development removed from that era.
Absolutely incorrect. I hated Daggerfall at the time it was released. I cut my teeth on the Goldbox and Wizardry and Ultima games, I didn't have to pretend with those or use my imagination to convince myself there was any depth to them, they were just games.

>>3854075
Considering what a shitshow Kenshi 2 development seems to be, it's nothing short of a miracle that the first game was actually released.

>>3854281
Is that really the problem? Minecraft also doesn't end, and it's one of the most popular games ever.

>>3854315
I agree that you're retarded and wrong.

>>3854426
Has there been much real news about it? Every once in a while they release a tiny bit of news or you hear about some job posting, but I haven't really seen much. I'd think there would be more to see by now, but I did't really think they were ever going to be on a productive timeline going by the first game

>>3854487
I accept the concession implicit in the childish response proffered.

Kenshi would just be better with more depth

>>3854569
A little more would go a long way, particularly in base building events and diplomacy/world states. Or actually letting you treat your base like a city and have places where random NPCs can set up stores or some shit.

File: 11268291.png (1.16 MB, 1075x1518)

1.16 MB PNG

Post scorchies.

>>3854382
>It just wasn't what you are expecting. It couldn't even be made today for that reason.
Nonsense. Daggerfall isn't far from skyrim or minecraft.

IMO the greatest trick DF pulled was being incomplete, both in the way that gets imagination going, and in the way that the thought of fulfilling the potential is exciting. And that fulfillment will always be deliciously out of reach.

The grinding in Kenshi comes with a few problems.
First, it makes your character seem like an outsider, as if they just spawned into the world with no knowledge or skill.
How weak your character is makes me think that Chris originally planned a generational system for Kenshi, a system where your first generation of characters would be the builders, focusing on constructing the settlement and laboring, while the second generation would grow up comfortably enough to train their combat skills instead of worrying about acid rain or hunger.
People often praise the grinding, saying it’s realistic or that it makes you more attached to your character, that every victory becomes more rewarding. Chris may have come up with this system to make the game more realistic, but the result was the opposite.
When new players get frustrated with the game, they go to Reddit or Youtube only to find ways to cheese it carrying companions nonstop, luring bandits or animals into cities, and so on. Very few people play the game in the way it’s “supposed to be” played, where every bit of progress is hard-fought, and it may take weeks of playing to see any noticeable impact.

>>3854814
>Very few people play the game in the way it’s “supposed to be” played, where every bit of progress is hard-fought, and it may take weeks of playing to see any noticeable impact.
In the end anyone can decide for themselves what they want out of a game.

Preventing grinding and cheese is pretty much futile, and I'd rather developers spend that time and resources elsewhere.

Any sentient non-drone being realizes grinding is stupid

>>3854281
>need an ending
>like all my animus
And a high score board too? Fag.

>>3854814
The problem is the mechanics are so dumb. The guides don't even give you correct information often. I had to figure out myself that toughness has zero grind and is leveled in a really random and broken way by getting up a few times from playing dead with a lot of enemies around you. You jump to like 60 almost immediately.

I think a lot of the design is built around anti-chosen one hipsterism of the mid 2000s. "You aren't special" is a pathetic ideology when the player of a game is inherently special due to being an actual human merely playing a game.

>>3854929
>I think a lot of the design is built around anti-chosen one hipsterism of the mid 2000s. "You aren't special" is a pathetic ideology
What's with the "we live in a society" posts here lately

>>3854934
Is this a /tv/ newfag reaction? No idea what you're talking about with regards to my post.

>>3854937
Like here you're seeking explanations for game design from "anti-chosen one hipsterism of the mid 2000s" and ideologies and whatever

A plain explanation would be that people find survival stuff engaging

>>3854948
Ah you're just a basic bitch anti-intellectual.
It's not that deep, anon, people are influenced by cultural fads and anti-chosen one hipsterism was a thing that influenced people. It's just like how characters in Kenshi do Matrix dodges, to put in your movie reference terms, the dev is influenced by what they find appealing. I did mean to type philosophy instead of ideology though, my bad.

>>3854961
Stop being cringe.

>>3854966
Cry moar.

>>3854814
Most I can just ignore as being unintended jank, but I really just dislike that there is a grind on certain things like research and crafting skills. If there was a more extended progression of what you need to build it would be one thing, but I always feel like the game comes to a screeching halt when it becomes clear that the best way to improve your squad is someone making bandannas and heart protectors for hours

>>3855066
>the best way to improve your squad is someone making bandannas and heart protectors for hours
It isn't though. The base building is a trap, you find much better stuff around the world and can't even craft the best weapons. All the base stuff should've been scrapped, it's really poorly made. Grind isn't the problem, it's how shallow the simulation is.

>>3855072
You don't need a base to do that. You can set up everything you need to put out masterwork items and unlock all the research just buying a house in a place like Stoat easily, but if you want to have a group that's more than just a couple people it's better than just scrounging around or savescumming in front of armor king or whatever. There's also certain things you'll just almost never find, like masterwork chain mail (not chain shirts)
And base building is only a trap in the sense it keeps you busy. I consider base events more interesting than a lot of what's out there.

>>3855082
I never research shit or worry too much over masterwork perfection in every slot and beat everything to death with ease. If you have that kind of dedication to forming a super squad, I'd think you'd enjoy the research grind.