>>3865968
He's as wrong as it can possibly get because he associates maximum agency with killing.
Then he's also doubly wrong because just running around and killing NPCs which don't matter and have no or low impact has borderline no agency to it at all.
Agency is about the feeling of control and being able to change the world around you with your actions.

>>3865968
>Posts: 36766
>Joined: Feb 2, '23
holy fucking autism, OP.
now i see why this board has an issue.

>>3865968
What about torture and rape? Killing is good and all, but I need more "agency".

>>3865982
I don't think he's talking about killing random npcs

*kills Emperor*
*gets a game over from the petulant DM*
Bravo, agency

>>3865968
>Agency is about being a murderhobo
That's moronic. The value of being able to kill anyone is a part of "the game will function despite killing anyone", which in turns has value because it means that you can be led to kill anyone (or that anyone can die, because of player involvement or non-involvement). You can have fantastic agency without any violence if you get your brain out of the gutter of "figthing is the only gameplay".

That's like telling someone "yeah if you want to cook some really nice stuff, it's gonna cost a bit", and then he comes back to you, proud of having bought 1200$ of gold sheet, asking when his meal will taste fantastic. Mistaking an enabling (but non-exclusive) condition with a necessary one.

If you can't be a murderhobo, you don't have agency.

>>3866013
Killing a character having consequences isn't really a failure of this principle.

>>3866008
Killing anyone means mostly minor NPCs.
If killing important NPCs doesn't amount to much more than
>you can't complete their quests
or something then that isn't very high player agency.
In fact, allowing to kill anyone typically means almost everyone you can kill has very little impact out of necessity.

Being able to kill someone you might normally not think you can is only interesting if the results are interesting. Or if upon replaying the game you have new information which can allow you to play it differently and changes things in relevant ways.

Besides, killing is one of the least interesting interactions an RPG can have and usually just results in less content.

>>3865968
This is what happens when you don't let your kids play GTA. They grow up to be psychopaths.

>>3865982
He is right but is only looking at a consequence, not the cause.
>Agency is about the feeling of control
Too relative, too nebulous.
>and being able to change the world around you with your actions.
Which permanent removal of potentially key characters is. You either misunderstand what he wrote there or are attempting to troll. If it is the former, not liking him, whoever he is, doesn't mean he can't be right sometimes.

>>3866017
>>Agency is about being a murderhobo
I don't see the OP's screencap arguing in favour of that. I guess screencap OPs really are inexcusable cancer.
Either way, the screencapped post is saying what you do but that one does it in a retarded way.

>>3866047
>Too relative, too nebulous.
Except it's not. Player agency is entirely about the players perceived control of the game world and it reacting to their actions. Agency is not freedom, choice or a hard number.
It doesn't even matter if you 'technically' on paper have a lot of player 'agency' implemented if they players don't perceive it that way.

>Which permanent removal of potentially key characters is
Except not. Killing some random NPC has effectively zero impact on player agency. Killing some quest giver has some limited agency since it removes the quest, but that isn't really a positive or interesting interaction or agency.

Your post makes it seem you either are the OP samefagging or someone that strongly identifies with his stupidity and ignorance.
He made a superficial observation, thinks agency and freedom are the same thing (they're not), thinks one of (if not THE) strongest thing that adds agency is being able to kill anyone. He then goes on to make it clear he is very biased (bad sign, irrational biased people poison any discussion and often make them irrelevant).
He then repeats that he thinks high level of reactivity = being able to kill anyone. Which again hammers home his narrow-mindedness and bias (since it never occured to him that a lot of players don't try to kill everyone and if they don't it has zero impact on them apart from negative things needing to simplify and dumb things down to allow it, which he erronously thinks enhanced it but doesn't even state why).

I could go on, but the poster is a very ignorant and irrational person that fundamentally doesn't understand what agency is or how to achieve it effectively.
His thread isn't even about trying to challenge his belief, but effectively just wanting people to agree with him, circlejerk and subtly give him game tips.
The kind of person you should never ever try to engage in a discussion.

>>3865968
Being able to rape anyone is the ultimate player agency

>>3866061
More text that says little to nothing. You still aren't saying what you consider to be real agency. Provide examples next. Ideally without butthurt causing you to be a passive-aggressive bitch. Yes, my concern about time-wasters (trolling) was reasonable because oh how many of those faggots frequent the video game boards.

>>3866074
>More text that says little to nothing. You still aren't saying what you consider to be real agency.
Literally the second sentence of his post.
I’m increasingly realizing that many posters in /vrpg/ can’t even read. Grim

>>3866078
>the players perceived control of the game world
What does that mean? What is your "perceived control" of posting on 4chan? There are objective things like being able or not being able to post, having superuser (moderator, whatever) functions available or not and so on. This is just pouring on bullshit to pad his posts so they look more impressive to someone who, ironically, can read but not see the essence of what is written or typed.
>and it reacting to their actions
Which do not include one of the most radical actions, permanent removal of a character with the numerous cascades of changes that necessitates to account for. Well, unless they are quest givers, but then it still doesn't matter because it's "not interesting". Yep, you're totally not the same anon and this is totally not trolling.

so is GTA the ultimate rpg according to this since you can kill horders of npcs

>>3866097
Now come up with your own thoughts instead of asking ChatGPT, anon. I give you a 0/10 for this assignment.

>>3866101
>>3866098

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>>3865968
in skyrim everyone must be non-essential. it's not immersive unless anyone can die and quests can be failed. unless you really plan to do every single quest

>>3865968
I think games should just let you be able to fuck yourself over. Really why should they make it winnable no matter how much of a self-destructive retard you are being?

>>3865968
Is that the codex? God, they were gay in 2006, but they are all super fucking faggoty now. They all suck Todd Howard's micro dick.

>>3866126
No, it's the site that split from the codex

>>3866084
>What does that mean? What is your "perceived control" of posting on 4chan? There are objective things like being able or not being able to post, having superuser (moderator, whatever) functions available or not and so on.
It's a subjective feeling, which you obviously understand, since your very next sentence is attempting to contrast the subjective internal feeling being discussed, by enumerating external objective counter-examples.
>someone who, ironically, can read but not see the essence of what is written or typed.
Ironic indeed.

>>3865968
So this is what they call "the ultimate male fantasy"

>>3866013
Any retard should know that killing an Emperor without the political clout to take the throne is a death sentence.

>>3865968
Morrowind was great in that regard, but it made a mistake of telling you your save was fucked when you killed an essential NPC.
They shouldn't tell you
If you wanna be a murder hobo, fuck you and persist in the doomed world you have create.

>>3865968
yes, this is true. it's what made Fallout so impressive in 1997.

>>3866150
To western RPG players it is a power fantasy which the world revolves around them. The world doesn't progress without their direct input. There cannot be a fail state because they only wanted to use diplomatic methods to play the game, or want to kill everyone they meet and still expect to progress the envisioned scenario.

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>>3866150
>>3866171
I'm not even fatigued anymore, I'm just exhausted.

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>>3866163
I wonder what sick fuck wrote Little Lamplight in FO3.

So this is the website that's sending its 'tards here? Fascinating how the RPG genre attracts extremely strange and lonely people.

>>3865968
In a sense it means developers have to implement ways to progress events without you just talking to characters, yes. That also means WAY more work in modern RPGs.

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>>3865968
>march 6th
what are you doing, op? digging through codex threads?

>>3866203
>codex
This is from a site started by Codex refugees. Scum of the scum.

>ctrl + f
>rape
>2 hits

Good job boys we can close up the thread now

>>3865968
Hero's Adventure is not exactly a beacon of freedom, like 90% of the major questlines are tied to factions that are obviously locked if you're their enemies. Playing as murderhobo gives you the Way of The Samurai-like "congrats, you killed everybody important" ending but pretty much everything else is locked to following the main questline or doing doing side quests that mostly not involve wanton murder (the cops faction early-on gives you a quest to wipe out one of the 3 "evil" factions, but the choice is obvious, as one of them only has one name NPC and they nearly always turn hostile anyway.)

>>3866200
the Codex went to shit because of /v/ refugees in the first place.

>>3865968
I think in a vacuum it's true but defacto it means games will be designed so that NPCs don't matter and there are glaringly obvious failsafe solutions. And no one is going to set out to make BG3 again because the late game is so thrashed because the scope exploded too much in the early content.

>>3865968
i killed every gay i found on my first and only playthrough of bg3

>>3866208
such a place exists?

>>3866127
so they are super based?

>>3866234
Why did anons leave /v/?

>>3866265
Why did goons leave ADTRW?

>>3865968
It tends to be but only because most games use combat and killing as the only actual player interaction with the world

>>3866273
Don't know, don't care and didn't ask. I was curious about /v/.

>>3866265
to get to the cuckdex

>>3865986
How many posts do you think you've made on 4chinz?

>>3866281
>Don't know, don't care
And here we are.

>>3866284
nta but def not a 100 posts per day

>>3866293
and that's just on one of his accounts, you know he has alts everywhere and a discord and obviously posts here. i don't see how he has time to play games at all. fucking crazy shit.

>>3865968
tldr
kill fuck marry as the minimum

>>3866289
/v/ is not something awful you retard.

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>>3865988
Aside from ching chong sex games, I can't think of a single video game that lets you rape.

>>3866347
>I don’t understand the question. I did eat breakfast this morning.
You’re when they removed analogies from the SAT.

>play rogue trader in act 3
>have to ask juiced up alien to pretty please violate my disfigured character to start combat while my party huddles in a corner to try to salvage the situation after I am pathetically slaughtered
>play underrail
>press the enter button and kill gorsky for being a needy whiny bitch