The idea of arpgs sound appealing but they all quickly devolve into walking around as a spectacle happens on screen with zero tactics. Are there ANY that are actually worth playing?Diablo 1 kind of looks interesting but does it quickly devolve into repetitive sewage?
>>3866729F76 is good
>>3866729i think Lonarpg gets it right if you don't mind rape
Most of them end up playing themselves so you have time to circle jerk over different builds on /vee/
>>3866729The genre sadly took a wrong turn way back during Diablo 2.In D2 people kept autistically grinding endgame bosses over and over to get better gear even though there really wasnt any endgame to speak of in that game. This lead to all future ARPGs focusing on adding infinite or nigh on infinite endgame content to satisfy those people. This in turn has lead into meta spiral of maximizing efficiency and clear speed in those games. Which turns them into visual clusterfucks like your image.D1 doesnt have any of this trash, so its a very enjoyable playthrough. The same goes for D2.In my dream timeline the genre would have focused on creating challenging and very randomized campaigns instead of infinite endgame grind slop. But here we are.
>>3866736Not an arpg, retard
last epoch is ok as long as you quit before endgame
>>3866752Resurrected attempted to fix that with Uber bosses but you need to farm gear so much to beat them, they're too strong otherwise. I play solo though so maybe it's easier with groups.I liked Diablo III and the rifts + legendary gem leveling up but again same thing you mentioned is the core issue - you're doing runs endlessly and not a campaign or something other.
Well if you mean diablo-likes only, say so, otherwise:Dark Souls is some of the best level design around even if its a half-finished game.Nioh 2 has the best gameplay, but it leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to itemization, level design and overall pacing.Lore and story is better in more slow-paced games (PST, MotB, Morrowind etc).
>>3866737Yes. And that's why they all suck. ARPGs as a genre have forgotten a lot of the fundamentals of game design, and have simply evolved into being idle clicker games. The "player" ends up passively just staring at a flashing screen watching meaningless colors whirl around. It's an addiction machine solely for the purpose of making profit extraction more efficient. There isn't really any GAME there anymore.The only way it could get more obvious is if they literally required you to stick an actual wire directly into your brain.It's fucking gross.
>>3866927I dunno what you're talking about, there's still gameplay with building a character and trying different skills, adapting to enemies immune to certain things or whatever. I know they perfected the dopaminergic reward system with the loot but the games still have play to them.
I enjoyed inquisitor martyr although it's a bit flawed.it is kinda to your point though that I wished they made the game as a traditional rpg rather than a arpg. the arpg elements just added tedium to the game
>>3867045>I enjoyed inquisitor martyr although it's a bit flawed.I bought this when Lowtax shilled it RIP. I wanted to like it, but I really hated the arbitrary "power level" mechanic of the gear. Just felt like a stupid and unnecessary grind. I'm too old for grindy games now, got no time for that shit.
PoE felt like a job.After burning out on my third league I had to call it quits, it was killing me.Grim Dawn is good.
>>3867049>PoE felt like a job.It's designed entirely around no-lifer gamers who make it their "lifestyle" game and are there to give life to the economy and provide value to the whales who RMT everything.
>>3866897"ARPG" means Diablo clone, not "Action RPG".>>3866752>In my dream timeline the genre would have focused on creating challenging and very randomized campaigns instead of infinite endgame grind slop.This is called a roguelike.
>>3867066Is there a good Diablo II roguelike?
>>3867075The closest thing would be to play Diablo 1 with self imposed permadeath, and no restarting a run if you don’t like the dungeon or quests.
>>3866737/v/ plays video games?
>>3867078I started with Diablo II and never experienced I. I think I started for like 5 minutes but it was so much more sluggish I dropped it.
>>3866897>dark souls>niohThese are JRPGs
>>3866729Grim Dawn and Last Epoch are decent.You never fully get away from the power creep though, it's what RPGs do in the end.This won't change until we see something like AI that can power creep against you in the world. Every battle and grind mechanic breaks down at the extreme ends.Some abuse the addiction mechanics like POE and D4 to keep you on cash drip.Some do the usual gear and boss grind in three dimensions such as BL2 and 4. Wish there were more of these myself with less reddit.Some are in fact more deeply tactical such as Elden Ring.Some are both grindier and more tactical at the same time, but barely even RPG like since it's just advancing gear loadouts without player stats, like Earth Defense Force 5 and 6, or the MonHun series.Avowed actually does better on the tactical side while remaining an actual RPG, but the story is a combination of microsoft blandness and esoteric wokeshit.Tainted Grail: Fall of Avalon holds up ok in tactics but feels unfinished, it's Skyrim ++ with tons of extra metal and difficulty.Some have unique features and more verticality like the Mordor series, also stays tactical till the end until you break it or are broken fighting the fortresses of Chinese hackers and stealing their hacked orcs lol.For the perfect, self contained package that falls into traditional ARPG I'd really give it to Trials of Mana remake. Stays at least a little tactical to the end, and is not too long nor too short, great story, visuals, music etc.
>>3867066The obsessive need to terminology police is both obnoxious and anti-fun.
>>3867090Proper categorization is extremely important.Only midwits hate semantics.
>>3867085JARPGs
>>3866729Iredeemable genre
>>3867066>"ARPG" means Diablo clone, not "Action RPG".Where did you read that?
>>3867108>a-r-p-g>ey-ar-pe-geeDiablo clone
>>3867104No wonder they're so damned good.
>>3867087Trials of Mana is not at all what I think when I hear people mention ARPG which another anon pointed out essentially just means "Diablo II Clone".Trials of Mana was great though.Grim Dawn is wonderful. Diablo II is still good. I want to try Last Epoch, it's on my wishlist, waiting for a 50% or greater sale (and nothing else on sale at the time that takes priority) before I dive in. It looks good. How does it stack against Grim Dawn?PoE and DIV are things I will never play.Borderlands is great but again not what I think of when someone mentions ARPG.
>>3867090It's not obsessive in this case though, it's what is generally accepted colloquially. Anon just let you know so you can follow convos better and not get confused.
>>3866729speaking of which how is warhammer 40k inquisitor?
>>3867066>"ARPG" means Diablo clone, not "Action RPG""lol"
>>3867066>>3867139your fucking retarded
>>3867108It's what people generally refer to when they say ARPG, especially coupled with the OP's picture it's obvious what type of game was being discussed.
>>3867143>your>meant to say you're for you are>is actually retardedESL should have their own board.
>>3867145heh knew you're a newfag
>>3867144lolno
>>3867087It is a massive disservice to equate the "Shadow of" LotR games as an ARPG.Those games surpass the shitty films
>>3867137Gd is basically 0.99xdiablo2. Better gameplay, worse atmosphere.
>>3867141solid 40k arpg. can't play as a space marine, though. I would say it's better than chaos bane.
>>3867081Try it. It is slower than d2 and has a totally different vibe.
>>3867108>>3867142He's right, the subgenre that we call "ARPG" today was indeed originally called "Diablo-clones". If you were old enough to have been playing games when Diablo came out, you would know this.The point of labels is to communicate information, so if someone says "ARPG" I understand what they mean and don't go "um akshually", but responding to the truth as if it's false just marks you as a retard. Brown zoomer behavior.
>>3866771I thought an ARPG was just an RPG with real time combat.
>>3867209>brown>-oomer>acting older than anybodyevery time
>>3867209get help
>>3867107What sucks is that they could've been good if they'd continued to basically be real time roguelikes without mandatory permadeath like Diablo, instead of turning into autismal time wasters about farming specific items to make your build work.
I wish there was an ARPG that played more like the Founding of Durotar campaign from WC3. It's like its in the middle of so many genres at the same time and it works pretty well. RTS controls so its not as tedious as some turn based games end up being but the numbers and pacing is a lot more grounded than ARPG genres so you don't just go zooming across the screen oneshotting everything.
>>3867262That's correct, but some retards think ARPG = hacknslash / diablo clone
>>3867280What do you suggest? More rogue elements? Perma death brings tension, but it decouples the player from his character.>turning into autismal time wasters about farming specific items to make your build work.Stops working as soon as your build is online.More story, branching paths and more rpg elements. Rogue elements are fine with me.>diablo 2/grim dawnDo you think these games oxuks work with fixed drops?
>>3867372>What do you suggest? More rogue elements? Perma death brings tension, but it decouples the player from his character.NTA but I'm not a big fan of hardcore, at least not in modern ARPGs because in a lot of them your health feels binary. You're either cleaving through shit without your health pool moving or you get hit by one debuff and nuke at the same time and you get 100 to 0'd within a fraction of a second. It can be fun to play HC because yeah, you do need to be way more careful but it usually boils down to "always clear shit slowly, max your resistances, (in the case of GD) stack some circuit breakers and you're good to go" and even then you might lose tens if not hundreds of hours to some bullshit RNG
For me, the ideal diablo-clone/arpg would be another game like Dungeon Siege 2. You'd have a party, so you can enjoy the autism of building however many characters you're allowed to have. Instead of having 50+ enemies on screen, there would be more tactics involved. Plus, I would get rid of the tiny incremental upgrades of +2% fire damage.I'd try making it myself, but I cannot into 3D modeling.
>>3867313RPGlets think hack n' slash means action, when it doesn't. It means a campaign focused on killing.
>>3866729grim dawn is thee action rpg. everything else sucks.
>>3867391Grim Dawn is pretty easy to play on hardcore, except for that one NPC outlaw in the little arena in the second act. That dude will delete you.
>>3867436There's the hidden boss in Act I that will delete you and that dude isn't even out in the open. And no I'm not talking about Salazar. But you're right about the Arena boss.
>>3867263Ignorance is forgivable, but being obstinately stupid is not. If the graph went back to the late 90s it would be even more obvious.
>>3867391>0'd within a fraction of a secondExactly. This is a no go in a perma death scenario. Like loosing progress due to a bug.>>3867468Very interesting
>>3867468Back in the day I don't remember anyone ever using ARPG, they would type out Action RPG.
>>3867091Show me your Semantic Catalogue® then. Also Diablo was a spiritual successor to Rogue so one must know that those two genres are deeply intertwined but yea midwits amarite!
>>3867436That's the problem I'm alluding to. It's not like the game is actually hard if you do your due diligence and keep your resistances maxed out and have a circuit breaker devotion or two, then out of nowhere a certain boss combo might wreck you so fast that you don't even have time to react. It doesn't make for a very satisfying game to play hardcore in, because health bars move so fast and often unpredictably.
>>3867468you may be retarded
>>3867391Optional ironman rarely improves a game. Either the game is designed for it and the regular mode becomes easy or it's not designed for it and you have these tuning problems.>>3867540Another good example
>>3867141the story is funa lot of the side elements are blatantly obvious grindtraps though
>>3867141Decent game. Even if you get Prophecy standalone I wouldn't suggest the new class for your first since you get to manage constructs and that's ANOTHER system to deal with.
>>3866729>ARPGs>>3867262>>3866771>>3867313>>3867434The correct term is looter clicker. You click on enemies and loot and make numbers grow in an endless hamsterwheel. That is all there is to these games. Not that that can't be fun, but they are not really rpgs. An ARPG is something along the line of Dark Souls, Witcher, Elder Scrolls etc., i.e. an rpg more focused on combat.
>>3867837Mass repliers are invariably dumb.You quoted me and I'm not even talking about the term ARPG.
>>3867066>>"ARPG" means Diablo clone, not "Action RPG".Let me guess, you think jarpigs are real RPGs too?
>>3867971JRPGs:RPGs::4chan:Something Awful
>>3866752Diablo 1 is really just a roguelike with better visuals. That was the design inspiration for the game. What went wrong can be traced to deviating from that since Diablo 2 is a new genre.
>>3866845The thing is, the runs themselves aren't very fun. Most "runs" are just clearing mobs as quick as possible from an area and maybe killing a boss mob at the end--there's no variation or objective beyond that, which of course creates a dull experience.PoE at least changes it up with some side modes like Delve, Sanctum, Heist, etc. but those are ultimately the same thing with a slight twist.
>>3867848>You quoted meAnd I will do it again. Your post was adjacent enough.
>>3869189No, it wasn't relevant at all to your post.
>>3867435I concur, with an expansion on the way there is plenty of content too. I fucking love GD.
>>3867837Looter clicker is not a real term people actually use
>>3871170Pathetic.
>>3866729Dungeon Siege 2 still mogs in terms of single player. I want a full customizable party damn it
>>3871364I wish it wasn't such a pain to get working on modern systems.
>>3866729because they are not Diablo 2
>>3866729I'm not reading this retarded thread. Play Ys if you want ARPG kino.
>>3871552Tried playing the first game and couldnt really understand it. Combat didnt make sense to me
>>3867209>immediately makes it about raceYou need to touch grass, unironically.
>>3871638>You need to touch grass, unironically.canned niggerbrained response says it all
>>3871611It's an anthology. Origin, oath in felghana, and lacrimosa of dana are the best ones. Ys1+2 are the only games that use bump combat.
>>3871657How does the combat compare to something like the Tales of franchise? Those games seemingly have low to no skill expression in their combat
I refer to every FPS as a "doom clone"
>>3871959>I refer to every FPS as a "doom clone"Brutal self-own, my broccoli-haired chum.
If Dragon's Dogma and Ys and Grim Dawn and Skyrim all fall under your label, it isn't very useful.
>>3871761nta but just watch gameplay on YouTube lil bro
>>3871959You'll be hard pressed to find an FPS that doesnt run on some evolution of the original Doom engine
>>3871761Nah Ys is a different beast. I wouldn't say it's difficult, but it can get frantic. Origin would be a good intro, I'd say.
>>3866729I enjoy casual playthroughs of Diablo 2 and Sacred 1. It's good enough for me. Looking forward to remaster of Sacred 2 as I didn't get to play it on release.
>>3872381Sacred 2 massively sucked and the remaster downgrades it further.
>>3866729Try divine divinity
>>3871381Yeah it took my awhile to find a pre patched version that works well but it's an awesome game. Only thing that comes close to Diablo 2 and in some ways beats it
>>3866729Diablo 2 is the GOAT.Titan Quest 1 is similar but doesn't play as smoothly.I want to try Grim Dawn, and The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 1/2D3 and POE fucked up the genre, but the gaming landscape is much more developed now so one of the large appeals of D2 was PvP which has been replaced by real PvP RPGs, such as DotA.and I read through a few of the replies and there's a bunch of out of touch retards here.
>>3866729>rogue-likes are rogue-likes>souls-likes are souls-likes>diablo-likes at some point started being called ARPGs which is a separate genre from Action RPG'swhy the fuck did this happen? I'm pushing 40 and I remember when Torchlight, Titan Quest, FATE etc were called Diablo-likes, but now all the kids say ARPG, which is dumb af IMO, who the hell started this, some streamer?
>>3866729ARPGs more like APGs
>>3872867About 10-15 years ago, once we got a crop of zoomies too young to have grown up on Diablo or Diablo 2.See: >>3867468
>>3867468I WONDER WHAT HAPPENED?IT'S A COMPLETE MYSTERY! NOBODY WILL EVER KNOW!
>>3872868I don't really see how people on this board could really think the diablolike variant of action rpgs have more in common with actual action games than RPGs, action game autists would laugh at that notion just as much as anons here would at the idea of any game with progression elements being an rpg.
>>3867085Nioh literally has enemies explode into loot and the end game is running copy pasted floors for super special loot.
>>3873432Big assumption there, anon. I think the joke was Autism Patient Games.
>>3866949Not that anon, I do agree that is a form of gameplay akin to deckbuilding or building a character in 3.5e D&D/Pathfinder, it can be satisfying learning the mechanical nuances and exploiting them to get an extremely strong build.However whenever I'm playing one of these games and I get to the point where I'm actively farming gear it starts to feel silly. Why am I repetitively grinding? So that I can trivialise the already easy game even further without any challenge? To momentarily keep up with the endgame difficulty that is more of the same but with inflated numbers, just to grind that over until that also loses its difficulty?Ironically, the genres that preceded and that came after use most of its mechanical trappings better. In a roguelike you can't farm shit over and over until you get the ideal item for your character, you just adapt to whatever you get, making the filler 90% drops in most Diablo clones be more valuable. If you want that perfect run you have to keep doing new runs of the game and not merely repetitively grind the same boss or area with little difficulty.Survivor-like slop drop the pretence and simply let you optimise your heart away, now trivialising the game is the entire goal and you don't need to spend hundreds of hours for just one build, you get to test the mettle straight away. They tend to be more transparent about their mechanical details thus relying less on online guides.
>>3867294It's called WoW. Founding of Durotar was supposed to be a hype campaign for WoW.
>>3872867Referring to these games as ARPGs was common by the time Torchlight came out. People thought the term Diablo clone was dumb and decided to go to call it something else. Sometimes genre names change like that. See also Doomclone -> FPS.
>>3867426>>3871364Im the odd one out and prefer the simplicity of Dungeon Siege 1. Im not against customization and builds altogether but the way DS1 does it, feels complex enough but also comfy fun. Can you imagine how tedious it would be if you had to manage skill trees, stat gains, cooldowns and more with the typical party of 7 or 8 on top of those big skirmishes? I mean hell, even having auto-attacking is brilliant and it baffles me how other ARPGs just dont even consider it as an option and would rather have you murder your mouse with all the clicking. There's just so many things i wish other ARPGs would steal from Dungeon Siege but i guess we're in the timeline where RGB lit characters spamming spells at mob balls is the one thing they went for instead.
>>3872867That's because "soulslike" fans are idiots and oblivious to their own retardation.
>>3875843The genre only recently figured out a way to move in one direction while aiming at another, the bar is very low.
>>3867209>"ARPG" today was indeed originally called "Diablo-clones"Arpg was a term sued during the apple ii era you fuckign retarded zoomie.
>>3875843We made fun of Dungeon Siege at the time, calling it a "screensaver" game that plays itself.
>>3875899>Arpg was a term sued during the apple ii era you fuckign retarded zoomie1. You're falsely conflating two terms. You're referring to the term "action RPG" to refer broadly to any RPG which relies on player reflexes and input speed, as opposed to purely turn-based and statistical resolution of combat, This thread is discussing the sub-genre now known as "ARPG" which shares the same name, but is used more specifically to refer to Diablo-clones. In the context of the term being discussed in this thread, the original term was, in fact, "Diablo-clone", and the term "ARPG" came later.2. I'm probably older than you, faggot. I played games on an Apple ][. Ironically, you are the one echoing the zoomer argument.
I might as well ask this here. I saw that CDKeys has God Eater 3 for cheap. Is that game fun?
>>3867137>. I want to try Last Epoch, it's on my wishlist, > How does it stack against Grim Dawn?It's much better engine and story wise, but the length is iffy with the second act on feeling unfinished (I have not played in some time, and they did redo the intro questing well). The end game looting is more interesting and in depth, but GD has another expansion due too so still very competitive between them IMO. I don't think you can go wrong with either.>PoE and DIV are things I will never play.>Borderlands is great but again not what I think of when someone mentions ARPG.Sadly, (B2 especially) is the closest thing we've seen still to Diablo taken into the FPS realm that I know of, therefore I call it thus, and it helps that my brain is not calcified into a death grip on boomer terminologies even though I'm older than all these autists that term police here. I'm not going to speak of the abortion that was Hellgate: London and neither are you.
>>3873743>I think the joke was Autism Patient Games.>joke>>3875768I call 'em ARPGs, cause that's pretty much what caught on, but Diabloesque, or Diablo clone fits the genre much better.We all remember the shitty ARPGs (that weren't Diablo clones) of the mid 00s. Thankfully, they died out harder than RTSes.
>>3876284>and it helps that my brain is not calcified into a death grip on boomer terminologies even though I'm older than all these autists that term police hereYou are not, you are simply a dumb faggot, who thinks that genre clarity is some nitpick when it's actually important to people who really enjoy a particular subgenre to be able to find similar games. What you follow is marketing, which seeks to expand reach.
>>3876390It is a nitpick, everyone knows what OP meant. your sperging only embarrasses yourself. Everyone agrees ARPG is a dumb term but we all know what it means when someone says it
>>3876499>Everyone agrees ARPG is a dumb term but we all know what it means when someone says itNTA but yeah I agree. If someone uses the term, despite being silly, it’s correctly communicated the specific sub-genre that they meant.I only drew ire at ignorant zoomers insisting that “Diablo-clone” was not the original term, and then tripling down after being repeatedly corrected.
>>3876499It's not a nitpick, because this thread directly proves that not everyone understands it. Call people spergs all you want, in a thread about a genre devoted to sperging, because you don't like discussion, but the facts are plain. And by the way, you can't get "embarassed" online, newfag.
>>3867090Unfortunately, it's important to understand in this case. What most kneejerking tards replying (like >>3867108 and >>3867142) don't get is that there are two definitions of ARPG. And unfortunately, other retards like >>3867209, start arguments by failing to clarify properly.Essentially, there's a subgenre of ARPG (Action RPG) descended from Diablo and fans of this genre call stubbornly them ARPGs. Outsiders might recognize them as "hack&slash" or rarely something like "looter/clicker." But fans of the genre just call them ARPGs. They have been doing this for decades, they do not give a shit what anyone else thinks about their use of that term, and this is never going to change.The best course of action is to learn how to fucking recognize context clues in language as if you were a white person. You might not have recognized OP's picture, but he mentioned Diablo specifically. And so you should know when he says "do all ARPGs suck" in this context, he's talking about Diablolikes and not Soulslikes or Elder Scrolls or Seiken Densetsu.
>>3867209btw probably shouldn't have called you retard, sorry. You clearly understand the truth.
Arpg is not a arpg because diablo is a arpg but not a actual "arpg".The diablo schizo is, something else.Diablo is an action rpg not because of reflexes and other bullshit. Diablo doesn't even require reflexes. You can have a turn based arpg.ARPG's just mean the core systems are based purely on combat and nothing else.This "diablo is a special subgenre" faggotry needs to die.
>>3876662>The diablo schizo is, something else.Multple anons are all explaining a rather simple and straightforward semantic clarification and instead of learning and gaining comprehension based on pre-existing foundation of an education in the English Language you decide to remain retarded and declare:>This "diablo is a special subgenre" faggotry needs to die.People using language to communicate don't give a shit what irrelevant faggots like you want.
>>3876655Thank you, I accept your apology anon. I was going to call you a retard for lumping me in with those retards, lol
>>3876713>Multple anons are all explaining a rather simple and straightforward semanticNo, it is just you trying to sound smart while presenting your retarded opinion. When samefagging, at least attempt to sound different.>People using language to communicateA retard can use language to communicate, doesn't mean he has anything of value to say.Your posts are proof of that.
>>3876797NTA, and I've made similiar posts more than once in this thread, but let me be thorough and attempt to put this to rest:There are two similar-sounding terms being used here by different people. The first, and relevant to this thread, is "ARPG", which does stand for "action RPG", but is used distinctly. We can borrow a device from the semanticists and call this genre ARPGs[1]. This is the term commonly used nowadays to describe the specific sub-genre of games that were originally known as Diablo-clones, after the success of the eponymous game from 1997, and began imitating its gameplay mechanics and style This subgenre was not initially called ARPGs[1], but over time (somewhere around 15 years ago, see graph posted earlier in the thread), the term ARPGs[1] became more popular than the original term of "Diablo-clones", and the original term fell largely into disuse (likely due to a new generation of players growing up who were too young to have played Diablo and Diablo 2 when those games were new).The second term being used is "action RPG", which is also, confusingly, sometimes shortened into "ARPG". This term is older than ARPGs[1], however I will distinguish this term as ARPGs[2], since it is less relevant to the context of this thread. This term was originally created to denote a broad sub-category of RPGs which featured some elements of action games in their combat, i.e. involved some measure of reaction speed, real-time combat, and direct player inputs to determine success or failure, as opposed to traditional RPG combat which was generally turn-based, involved selecting actions from a menu, and where combat resolution was entirely based on random chance and character statistics.(1/2)
>>3876893I personally am not a big fan of either of these terms, but I can understand what someone else is trying to communicate if they use them, as long as they use the terms consistently and clearly. My personal preference would be to render ARPGs[2] as "action RPGs" and ARPGs[1] as "ARPGs", since this is how most people render the terms most of the time, and the purpose of language is to clearly communicate to the listener the speaker's intent and ideas.However, a major problem with /vrpg/ is that the board is populated with a large number of anons with a moderate amount of autism, an average-to-very-slightly-above-average IQ, and a predisposition towards hostility and petty arguments that no one else gives a shit about. These people don't really have anything insightful to add, they don't have any interesting information or perspectives to share, they just want to shit the board up by derailing threads into sperg-outs and autistic slapfights. Hence, I think that it would improve the board clarity if anons would attempt to clearly define the implicit assumptions they were making and avoid ambiguous terminology in their posts, which is just begging for autistic slapfights. Were I the janny, I'd also wordfilter "objectively" into "subjectively", but that's just my opinion.(2/2)
This is how you get total gibberish posts like>>3876662>Arpg is not a arpg because diablo is a arpg but not a actual "arpg"I'm sure this made sense inside his head, but is word soup to anyone else, due to a total lack of distinguishing clarity between the two different terms with the same name. No homophone
>>3876893>>3876895Luckily this post is not a autistic midwit take,oh wait?
I can't believe you autists are still discussing the terms.
>>3866729Test
>>3876922no testing, only lurking newfag
>>3876654Pretty much. But I thought hack and slash games were like the old god of war games or castle crashers
>>3877091>hack and slashThis term comes from tabletop roleplaying campaigns which were very combat-heavy with little plot.
>>3876606>angry sperg autist can't into contextual English and adjectives to qualify a genre that was always ill-defined in the first place>he's so lazy he thinks he'll make everyone else adapt to his anal retentive nouns, and probably pronouns as wellNo one asked and no one cares about little men and their little angry thoughts.> And by the way, you can't get "embarassed" online, newfag.The terminally online cringe, lol.>>3877100Anon is correct, and the roguelikes Hack, NetHack, and pic related stuck to this spirit in the early computerized role-playing game days.
>>3877119Damn, you got really mad, newfag. There's not even anything to respond to, just bile and thought terminating nonsense.
>>3876284>Sadly, (B2 especially) is the closest thing we've seen still to Diablo taken into the FPS realmDismisses hellgate london which is ana ctual fps diablo and praise borderlands which is just a normal fps with a single action skill and skills barely mattering until endgame.Wtf am i reading?
common mistake in arpgs is to focus on affixes and rerolls rather than skillsyou should not be able to reroll loot drops, that's just skinner box padding on dev's partideal arpg would fuse 1.06b of diablo 2 with one of ys games.
>>3877091>But I thought hack and slash games were like the old god of war games or castle crashersThey are. This anon is also correct: >>3877119Hack & Slash is not necessarily a better term. But people sometimes refer to diablolikes as hack&slash ARPGs.(Hence, the recommendation to just rely on context to determine whether ARPG means "diablolike" or the more general variant)
It was Japs that used ARPG to mean Action RPGs, just like with DRPG, we just said Action RPGs back in the day.
>>3877408No one has ever said "diablolike", they said diablo clone.
>>3877410>JapsPlease, anon, this term is insensitive. Use “Nips” instead.
>>3877414I'm not a Bong, and no SE Asian cares about names for outsiders, they love that shit.
>>3877411don't give a shit
>>3877309>1.06b of diablo 2 with one of ys gamesexplain what you're envisioning
>>3877430Of course you don't. Said information is for those who do care.
>>3877520mentally handicapped autists derailing the thread*
>>3866729I just wish Throne of Darkness wasn't hard locked to 640x480 or 800x600. Played the shit out of back in the day, and formations in ARPGs remain sadly unexplored.
>>3877525Have you tried not replying to posts you don't value? No, can't do that, can you? Retard.
>>3866927The worst thing about them transforming into idle clicker games is that the fanbase will throw a fit if a game requires anything more than that from them.If the latest patch/league whatever doesn't let you melt everything with ease and shower you with loot every 5 seconds players will bitch and moan on reddit until the devs cave and make the game more brainless.ARPGs are infested with dadgamers who hate the thought of using more than one braincell when they play games.
>>3877856>the fanbase will throw a fit if a game requires anything more than that from them>If the latest patch/league whatever doesn't let you melt everything with ease and shower you with loot every 5 seconds players will bitch and moan on reddit until the devs cave and make the game more brainless.>ARPGs are infested with dadgamers who hate the thought of using more than one braincell when they play gamesDadgamer here, played the shit out of D1 and D2 back in the day. Modern ARPGs are soulless trash and the only one even remotely interesting is Grim Dawn. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, their crucial mistake was aping the gambling/RNG mechanics of D2, much like many other genres of game have turned into Skinner boxes where players are milked for microtransactions. Yup, that's a cow, alright.When my kids are older I'm gonna set up a coop game of D1. Hell yeah.
>>3877520The entire point is that the generally accepted term in context is ARPG. I used an arbitrary, uncommon term to describe the meaning and I did it on purpose, there is no point trying to "correct" it unless you're really just desperate to take my cock.>>3877533You should try it. Also try not making stupid and completely pointless posts.
>>3877935lol, I love the posturing of superiority that immediately devolves into a homosexual fantasy.Your posts can be commented on, not everything is an attack at the crux of your argument, some things are just addendums. It seems you can't follow contextual markers yourself due to the virtual chip on your shoulder. You should work on that.
>>3877972zero self awareness
>>3866729if you dont like the genre and think it only looks appealing, thats about it the end game, end goal is the same...Maybe its time to quit the genre, nothing wrong with that.
>>3877989Proof?
>>3877298You're reading opinions of someone with taste, because Hellgate London was partially aborted garbage upon release and remained garbage through an abortion of a remake.> skills barely matteringNot true, and the loot depth and build variance is there along with RNG boss farming for build defining legendaries.The rpg elements don't compare in their level of depth to D2 of course, but there isn't an FPS that comes closer to all those elements at once tmk.>>3866729No Rest for the Wicked basically has stated goals of trying to get away from that kind of particle effect blob combat.Seems underbaked in EA still but I've got my eye on it. I like some of the jump attacks I've seen.
>>3878019>No Rest for the Wickedthis looks interesting, best response in this thread
>>3878019>because Hellgate London was partially aborted garbageStill better than borderlands, which is saying a lot.>and the loot depth Use thing that does most damage, wow, so much depth. Except for 2 that adds slag.> build variance There Is no build variance because your build only come sonline at the end. Or do you think that small percentage increase are really something that defines a build?>RNG boss farmingNot a good thing to be praising> build defining legendaries.You mean class mods? If a legendary does good damage then it useful for everybody.A sniper will still use a shotgun if it outclasses the sniper in damage.
the real ARPG people are like maddenfifacod people, you aren't interacting with them on the internet
>>3867091If you ask me it’s pretty based to be an anti-semantic
If you guys are done whining over the term ARPG, kindly redirect the unspent outrage on how tactical RPG and tabletop RPG are both TRPG:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_role-playing_gamehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabletop_role-playing_game
>>3878841>tactical RPG and tabletop RPGYou mean SRPGs and tabletop?
>>3878841Tabletop RPG is either abbreviated “TTRPG” or just “RPG”. CRPGs themselves added the “C” to distinguish themselves RPGs, back in the day.This is in a similar vein to how many people don’t realize the original name of the lift was just “press”, aka military press or overhead press or shoulder press. “Bench press” added the word bench to distinguish is as a distinct variant of the original, which was just “press”. But now if you say “press” many ignorant people will interpret that as bench press.
>>3878910SRPG only really applies to jrpgs
>>3867049PoE at least had different gameplay gimmicks on the ladder, which was something I was hoping for in Diablo 2 Resurrected.
>>3879111The gimmicks are actually the worst part of live service games, because they keep the developers on a content treadmill instead of actually perfecting their game, so it just becomes a huge pile of half-finished ideas and reworks.
>>3879134>The gimmicks are actually the worst part of live service games, because they keep the developers on a content treadmillThey're literally designed to keep the players on a treadmill, too.
>>3879223The dedicated losers WANT to be on that treadmill, but that design philosophy can only harm a game in the long run.
>>3866729>>3866752There was also a problem of LoD addon and later 1.10 "gameplay streamlining" part. In general, there are pre-LoD era with games like Divine Divinity, games, that had been spawned from LoD pre-1.10 like original Titan Quest without undead addon, and everything else, when some retard had decided to take everything to the extreme he calls "logical end".Although i consider, that RPG with action element should be separated from actions with RPG elements, as first genre supposes numbers interaction first with action allowing for more freedom for the player, whereas in second type numbers either make some part of action gameplay unnecessary (thus reducing player's actions in action game) or are just a checklist of "get resistances that high or else you wouldn't be able to play".
>>3879422Brief summary timeline of the d2 patches? I played vanilla d2 when it came out (played the beta where everyone was a barb and capped at lvl 9 or whatever) and then LoD after it came out, but the patch changes elude me, been so long. I remember 1.09 added cross skill synergies.
>>3866729ARPGs are mechanically simple there's no getting around that. If you are looking for tactical gameplay you will not find an ounce here. For me it also gets repetitive after a hundred or so hours.What prevents it from being boring however is the combination of power fantasy progression, simplicity, and the art direction/world/music. For that reason I love Diablo 2. It's simple, you feel strong, and it's dripping in atmosphere, and you can enjoy one or a couple of playthroughs and move on. Other ARPGs either fail in the power fantasy(too weak, too strong, inconsistent progression), simplicity (e.g. layers of items for no mechanical benefit just number crunching), and a world design I just don't really like. Diablo 2 for me is the whole self contained package.
>>3877435it would probably amount to something like single player dota in terms of individual hero playstyle only with let's say 8-ish active skills. the trick would be not to make dodge too powerful.the key would also be to keep UI simple which is what most diablo 2 clones fail to do. grim dawn looks like fucking world of warcraft.
>>3880008>ARPGs are mechanically simple there's no getting around that. If you are looking for tactical gameplay you will not find an ounce here. For me it also gets repetitive after a hundred or so hours.This is true. It's also why they need to do shit they focus on REALLY well or they're a miss. Moment to moment gameplay and itemization need to be really good.
>>3866729Diablo 1 is fun as long as you DO NOT play as a warrior
>>3877411>No one has ever said "diablolike"You just did, nigger.
>>3882823>You just didNo, I didn't. That post was well over a week ago and I type silently.
>>3879045Not the same.
>>3882833>No, I didn'tMy text to speech says differently.
>>3880662>Moment to moment gameplayYup, i love sacred 2, but the moment to moment gameplay is simply pure boredom.
>>3882871I'm not responsible for that. Don't know why you trust the digital homunculus anyway, it constantly lies.You are an utter faggot.See? Or, wait...
I liked Diablo 1 but I thought 2 was boring as shit. What other arpgs should I play?
>>3883115Nox
>>3883115Every other ARPG is just going to be a clone of Diablo 2.
>>3883161The post directly above yours mentions one that isn't.
>>3883168Pretend that my post says “the vast majority of” or “virtually all” instead of “every”. You know what I mean. Almost every “ARPG” is aping D2. If he liked D1 but not D2 there’s not going to be a lot more out there for him.
>>3883170>move the goalposts for meNo.
>>3866729>zero tacticsWhat? Most arpgs I've played involved heavy party tweaking, spell prep, buff prep, item prep, then positioning and then ONCE the battle starts:>spacebar>give orders>observe enemy reactions>spacebar>more orders And so on.RTWP is the greatest of all RPG combat systems.
>>3880662Moment to moment gameplay and itemization also need to be in balance with each other. For example, in grim dawn or POE, the itemization is more involved than the gameplay, so after a solid preparation in town I'm reminded that the gameplay is just click to clear screen. Diablo 2 is still the gold standard. The gameplay and the itemization is in perfect balance, so you get excited to TP back to town for upgrades, and that is not a game in itself so you want to TP back to kill more mobs, which is not blink and clear screen.
>>3883196Your post doesn't describe arpgs.
Is Diablo 4 worth getting back into it?
>>3883428It's not even worth playing in the first place.
>>3883176You have autism (derogatory). This impairs your ability to understand the ideas of others, and to successfully communicate your ideas to others.
>>3866729Not all of them suck. It's just the ones that try to be D2 except made for retards. Anything similar to PoE is dogshit which is unfortunately most ARPGs over the past decade or so.
>>3883489Moving into personal attacks already? I don't have autism, wish I did as I think many simple minds find it easier to interact within an adopted framework.Your problem is an inability to take the L, you nitpick others and then want people to extend you all flexibility. Beyond that, you have zero sense of humour or genre knowledge.
>>3866729If by ARPG you mean action roleplaying game, then yes. Souls-likes are action role playing games.If by ARPG you mean Diablo 2 clone, then no. Diablo 2 clones typically distil the basic parts of Diablo 2 and add nothing else. They're more arcade games or gambling simulator than roleplaying games.
>>3871170Only game I have that many hours in is Binding of Isaac, never broke 1000 on anything else.
>>3883456>>3883428Probably not worth playing. I tried a bit when it first came out and refunded when I realized you always have to be online. My Internet is stable as fuck, never have outages besides during major storms, and yet somehow it dropped me from the game and reset some progress. I noped the fuck out right after that because I was already on the fence about it. Not about to waste my fucking time redoing mid-tier gameplay.Grim Dawn and Titan Quest 2 will be the ARPGs I play in the future. Oh and Last Epoch once they go on sale with it for 50% or more.
Playing D2 Remaster for the first time. How the fuck is Duriel so fucking hard. That nigga three hits my Amazon. I can't kite because the room is so fucking tiny. I literally had to cheese him with my shield and constantly doing a corpse run, hitting him a few times and dying.
>>3886215*loads into janky bnet servers on 56k**duriel kills you before loading finishes*Zoomers missed out
>>3866729Here's what makes them truly suck ass. Diablo for example. We're gonna make you replay the same campaign 4 times, oh wait... Let's add Paragon levels and force the player to level 50 more times. Their all shit. The only thing that makes them fun is playing with friends, beyond that it's shit.
>>3866729Why do they all suck? Lets see>gambling + RNG>poor optimisation>poor balance>poor implementation of core mechanics>skinner box gameplay loop>the only actual difficulty/challenge is how much time can you spare for the game's grind>using means to an end as the end-game purpose>dysfunctional multiplayer>lack of innovation>arbitrary constraints to gameplay>psychological exploitationYeah, and D2 was the daddy of it all.
>>3866729pretty much every single arpg is a diablo 2 clone. they dont exactly suck, but its all the same shit. i dont play them because i already have.
>>3887618>pretty much every single arpg is a diablo 2 clone*koolaid anon bursts through wall*Not ALL ARPGs are d2 clones!!!
>>3866729I will shill for Dungeon Siege 1/2 until I die
>>3887618>pretty much every single arpg is a diablo 2 cloneso FF15 is a diablo clone?
>>3887835>so FF15 is a diablo clone?This is clearly lazy bait in a thread full of 200 posts of autistic sperging about what "ARPG" means, and you're clearly intentionally conflating two different terms (see: >>3876893) to be provocative, but no, FF15 doesn't fall under either definition of ARPG. It's a shitty nu-JRPG that plays itself by holding one button down, as your webm illustrates. No "action" required on the part of the player.
>>3887652I unironically liked DS2... and for the life of me I really just don't know why. Mechanically, it's sooooo fucking simple by comparison to, like, PoE or something. But honestly? How much of PoE's actual mechanics do you even notice while you're playing? All the complexity is just passive downtime spreadsheet autism. The actual gameplay of PoE is just right click spam around your screen as fast as you can.DS2 felt more like a hack and slash because you could actually see what was happening and you *wanted* to pay attention while you explored the world, searching for secret doors and buttons and treasure chests. There were great puzzles to solve and meaningful secrets to collect. And you were controlling an entire party so even though each character was dead simple, really, it was still active enough during combat. And the ults were crazy...Looking back, it's just fucking prehistoric levels of primitive, like Gauntlet Legends. But it was just fucking fun.You won't have to die on that hill alone, anon.
>>3887652>DS 1 Is this the one where you are a farmer and your village is annihilated by monsters which causes you to become an adventurer?Peak kinoI wish games were as simple as that.
