The idea of arpgs sound appealing but they all quickly devolve into walking around as a spectacle happens on screen with zero tactics. Are there ANY that are actually worth playing?Diablo 1 kind of looks interesting but does it quickly devolve into repetitive sewage?
>>3866729F76 is good
>>3866729i think Lonarpg gets it right if you don't mind rape
Most of them end up playing themselves so you have time to circle jerk over different builds on /vee/
>>3866729The genre sadly took a wrong turn way back during Diablo 2.In D2 people kept autistically grinding endgame bosses over and over to get better gear even though there really wasnt any endgame to speak of in that game. This lead to all future ARPGs focusing on adding infinite or nigh on infinite endgame content to satisfy those people. This in turn has lead into meta spiral of maximizing efficiency and clear speed in those games. Which turns them into visual clusterfucks like your image.D1 doesnt have any of this trash, so its a very enjoyable playthrough. The same goes for D2.In my dream timeline the genre would have focused on creating challenging and very randomized campaigns instead of infinite endgame grind slop. But here we are.
>>3866736Not an arpg, retard
last epoch is ok as long as you quit before endgame
>>3866752Resurrected attempted to fix that with Uber bosses but you need to farm gear so much to beat them, they're too strong otherwise. I play solo though so maybe it's easier with groups.I liked Diablo III and the rifts + legendary gem leveling up but again same thing you mentioned is the core issue - you're doing runs endlessly and not a campaign or something other.
Well if you mean diablo-likes only, say so, otherwise:Dark Souls is some of the best level design around even if its a half-finished game.Nioh 2 has the best gameplay, but it leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to itemization, level design and overall pacing.Lore and story is better in more slow-paced games (PST, MotB, Morrowind etc).
>>3866737Yes. And that's why they all suck. ARPGs as a genre have forgotten a lot of the fundamentals of game design, and have simply evolved into being idle clicker games. The "player" ends up passively just staring at a flashing screen watching meaningless colors whirl around. It's an addiction machine solely for the purpose of making profit extraction more efficient. There isn't really any GAME there anymore.The only way it could get more obvious is if they literally required you to stick an actual wire directly into your brain.It's fucking gross.
>>3866927I dunno what you're talking about, there's still gameplay with building a character and trying different skills, adapting to enemies immune to certain things or whatever. I know they perfected the dopaminergic reward system with the loot but the games still have play to them.
I enjoyed inquisitor martyr although it's a bit flawed.it is kinda to your point though that I wished they made the game as a traditional rpg rather than a arpg. the arpg elements just added tedium to the game
>>3867045>I enjoyed inquisitor martyr although it's a bit flawed.I bought this when Lowtax shilled it RIP. I wanted to like it, but I really hated the arbitrary "power level" mechanic of the gear. Just felt like a stupid and unnecessary grind. I'm too old for grindy games now, got no time for that shit.
PoE felt like a job.After burning out on my third league I had to call it quits, it was killing me.Grim Dawn is good.
>>3867049>PoE felt like a job.It's designed entirely around no-lifer gamers who make it their "lifestyle" game and are there to give life to the economy and provide value to the whales who RMT everything.
>>3866897"ARPG" means Diablo clone, not "Action RPG".>>3866752>In my dream timeline the genre would have focused on creating challenging and very randomized campaigns instead of infinite endgame grind slop.This is called a roguelike.
>>3867066Is there a good Diablo II roguelike?
>>3867075The closest thing would be to play Diablo 1 with self imposed permadeath, and no restarting a run if you don’t like the dungeon or quests.
>>3866737/v/ plays video games?
>>3867078I started with Diablo II and never experienced I. I think I started for like 5 minutes but it was so much more sluggish I dropped it.
>>3866897>dark souls>niohThese are JRPGs
>>3866729Grim Dawn and Last Epoch are decent.You never fully get away from the power creep though, it's what RPGs do in the end.This won't change until we see something like AI that can power creep against you in the world. Every battle and grind mechanic breaks down at the extreme ends.Some abuse the addiction mechanics like POE and D4 to keep you on cash drip.Some do the usual gear and boss grind in three dimensions such as BL2 and 4. Wish there were more of these myself with less reddit.Some are in fact more deeply tactical such as Elden Ring.Some are both grindier and more tactical at the same time, but barely even RPG like since it's just advancing gear loadouts without player stats, like Earth Defense Force 5 and 6, or the MonHun series.Avowed actually does better on the tactical side while remaining an actual RPG, but the story is a combination of microsoft blandness and esoteric wokeshit.Tainted Grail: Fall of Avalon holds up ok in tactics but feels unfinished, it's Skyrim ++ with tons of extra metal and difficulty.Some have unique features and more verticality like the Mordor series, also stays tactical till the end until you break it or are broken fighting the fortresses of Chinese hackers and stealing their hacked orcs lol.For the perfect, self contained package that falls into traditional ARPG I'd really give it to Trials of Mana remake. Stays at least a little tactical to the end, and is not too long nor too short, great story, visuals, music etc.
>>3867066The obsessive need to terminology police is both obnoxious and anti-fun.
>>3867090Proper categorization is extremely important.Only midwits hate semantics.
>>3867085JARPGs
>>3866729Iredeemable genre
>>3867066>"ARPG" means Diablo clone, not "Action RPG".Where did you read that?
>>3867108>a-r-p-g>ey-ar-pe-geeDiablo clone
>>3867104No wonder they're so damned good.
>>3867087Trials of Mana is not at all what I think when I hear people mention ARPG which another anon pointed out essentially just means "Diablo II Clone".Trials of Mana was great though.Grim Dawn is wonderful. Diablo II is still good. I want to try Last Epoch, it's on my wishlist, waiting for a 50% or greater sale (and nothing else on sale at the time that takes priority) before I dive in. It looks good. How does it stack against Grim Dawn?PoE and DIV are things I will never play.Borderlands is great but again not what I think of when someone mentions ARPG.
>>3867090It's not obsessive in this case though, it's what is generally accepted colloquially. Anon just let you know so you can follow convos better and not get confused.
>>3866729speaking of which how is warhammer 40k inquisitor?
>>3867066>"ARPG" means Diablo clone, not "Action RPG""lol"
>>3867066>>3867139your fucking retarded
>>3867108It's what people generally refer to when they say ARPG, especially coupled with the OP's picture it's obvious what type of game was being discussed.
>>3867143>your>meant to say you're for you are>is actually retardedESL should have their own board.
>>3867145heh knew you're a newfag
>>3867144lolno
>>3867087It is a massive disservice to equate the "Shadow of" LotR games as an ARPG.Those games surpass the shitty films
>>3867137Gd is basically 0.99xdiablo2. Better gameplay, worse atmosphere.
>>3867141solid 40k arpg. can't play as a space marine, though. I would say it's better than chaos bane.
>>3867081Try it. It is slower than d2 and has a totally different vibe.
>>3867108>>3867142He's right, the subgenre that we call "ARPG" today was indeed originally called "Diablo-clones". If you were old enough to have been playing games when Diablo came out, you would know this.The point of labels is to communicate information, so if someone says "ARPG" I understand what they mean and don't go "um akshually", but responding to the truth as if it's false just marks you as a retard. Brown zoomer behavior.
>>3866771I thought an ARPG was just an RPG with real time combat.
>>3867209>brown>-oomer>acting older than anybodyevery time
>>3867209get help
>>3867107What sucks is that they could've been good if they'd continued to basically be real time roguelikes without mandatory permadeath like Diablo, instead of turning into autismal time wasters about farming specific items to make your build work.
I wish there was an ARPG that played more like the Founding of Durotar campaign from WC3. It's like its in the middle of so many genres at the same time and it works pretty well. RTS controls so its not as tedious as some turn based games end up being but the numbers and pacing is a lot more grounded than ARPG genres so you don't just go zooming across the screen oneshotting everything.
>>3867262That's correct, but some retards think ARPG = hacknslash / diablo clone
>>3867280What do you suggest? More rogue elements? Perma death brings tension, but it decouples the player from his character.>turning into autismal time wasters about farming specific items to make your build work.Stops working as soon as your build is online.More story, branching paths and more rpg elements. Rogue elements are fine with me.>diablo 2/grim dawnDo you think these games oxuks work with fixed drops?
>>3867372>What do you suggest? More rogue elements? Perma death brings tension, but it decouples the player from his character.NTA but I'm not a big fan of hardcore, at least not in modern ARPGs because in a lot of them your health feels binary. You're either cleaving through shit without your health pool moving or you get hit by one debuff and nuke at the same time and you get 100 to 0'd within a fraction of a second. It can be fun to play HC because yeah, you do need to be way more careful but it usually boils down to "always clear shit slowly, max your resistances, (in the case of GD) stack some circuit breakers and you're good to go" and even then you might lose tens if not hundreds of hours to some bullshit RNG
For me, the ideal diablo-clone/arpg would be another game like Dungeon Siege 2. You'd have a party, so you can enjoy the autism of building however many characters you're allowed to have. Instead of having 50+ enemies on screen, there would be more tactics involved. Plus, I would get rid of the tiny incremental upgrades of +2% fire damage.I'd try making it myself, but I cannot into 3D modeling.
>>3867313RPGlets think hack n' slash means action, when it doesn't. It means a campaign focused on killing.
>>3866729grim dawn is thee action rpg. everything else sucks.
>>3867391Grim Dawn is pretty easy to play on hardcore, except for that one NPC outlaw in the little arena in the second act. That dude will delete you.
>>3867436There's the hidden boss in Act I that will delete you and that dude isn't even out in the open. And no I'm not talking about Salazar. But you're right about the Arena boss.
>>3867263Ignorance is forgivable, but being obstinately stupid is not. If the graph went back to the late 90s it would be even more obvious.
>>3867391>0'd within a fraction of a secondExactly. This is a no go in a perma death scenario. Like loosing progress due to a bug.>>3867468Very interesting
>>3867468Back in the day I don't remember anyone ever using ARPG, they would type out Action RPG.
>>3867091Show me your Semantic Catalogue® then. Also Diablo was a spiritual successor to Rogue so one must know that those two genres are deeply intertwined but yea midwits amarite!
>>3867436That's the problem I'm alluding to. It's not like the game is actually hard if you do your due diligence and keep your resistances maxed out and have a circuit breaker devotion or two, then out of nowhere a certain boss combo might wreck you so fast that you don't even have time to react. It doesn't make for a very satisfying game to play hardcore in, because health bars move so fast and often unpredictably.
>>3867468you may be retarded
>>3867391Optional ironman rarely improves a game. Either the game is designed for it and the regular mode becomes easy or it's not designed for it and you have these tuning problems.>>3867540Another good example
>>3867141the story is funa lot of the side elements are blatantly obvious grindtraps though
>>3867141Decent game. Even if you get Prophecy standalone I wouldn't suggest the new class for your first since you get to manage constructs and that's ANOTHER system to deal with.
>>3866729>ARPGs>>3867262>>3866771>>3867313>>3867434The correct term is looter clicker. You click on enemies and loot and make numbers grow in an endless hamsterwheel. That is all there is to these games. Not that that can't be fun, but they are not really rpgs. An ARPG is something along the line of Dark Souls, Witcher, Elder Scrolls etc., i.e. an rpg more focused on combat.
>>3867837Mass repliers are invariably dumb.You quoted me and I'm not even talking about the term ARPG.
>>3867066>>"ARPG" means Diablo clone, not "Action RPG".Let me guess, you think jarpigs are real RPGs too?
>>3867971JRPGs:RPGs::4chan:Something Awful
>>3866752Diablo 1 is really just a roguelike with better visuals. That was the design inspiration for the game. What went wrong can be traced to deviating from that since Diablo 2 is a new genre.
>>3866845The thing is, the runs themselves aren't very fun. Most "runs" are just clearing mobs as quick as possible from an area and maybe killing a boss mob at the end--there's no variation or objective beyond that, which of course creates a dull experience.PoE at least changes it up with some side modes like Delve, Sanctum, Heist, etc. but those are ultimately the same thing with a slight twist.
>>3867848>You quoted meAnd I will do it again. Your post was adjacent enough.
>>3869189No, it wasn't relevant at all to your post.
