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>yet another "screenshot from Google" Skyrim thread
I don't believe you.

>>3868584
>This was likely a game just as monumental as Ocarina of Time was for an entire generation.
Yes if it was their first TES-like.

For others it was an improved TES game. Amazing, but not mindblowing, cherry popping amazing

>>3868594
Skyrim plays more like an action adventure than an RPG, it's kind of its appeal. I could see it being like OoT for people who originally played Morrowind and or Oblivion too.

>>3868584
For the first 2-3 years i refused to mod my skyrim and enjoyed getting through all the content vanilla. That includes 100 smithing which ended up being resetting shops and mining for ore outside of whiterun for like 2 days. It's one of the best games ever without mods, and the last good bethesda game.

>>3868584
Why is OOT being propped up as this changing of the tides style cultural moment? Back in the day nobody I knew bothered with the N64 (they did liked the NES, SNES and Gameboy), they all went to the Play Station. Only a few people taked about OOT, the vast majority was playing stuff like Metal Gear, Resident Evil, FF7 or Gran Turismo.

>>3868730
Well I owned an N64 and read Gamepro magazine, and everyone I knew had an N64 and some a PSX too. Everyone talked highly of the game, and fast forward people still tend to hold it in high regards. I'm just making a simple comparison, I didn't think much of Skyrim, but I just keep seeing people talking about it, exactly the way I remember people talking Ocarina of Time.

>>3868587
I think people do that because the image will be recognizable. or it could be just one anon making all the threads. I could be convinced either way.

>>3868730
>Why is OOT being propped up as this changing of the tides style cultural moment?
>Back in the day nobody I knew bothered with the N64 (they did liked the NES, SNES and Gameboy), they all went to the Play Station.
>Only a few people taked about OOT, the vast majority was playing stuff like Metal Gear, Resident Evil, FF7 or Gran Turismo.
1) The Nintendo/Zelda brand was already popular in the West prior to gen 5 so the 2D->3D transition was more immediately apparent.
2) Nintendo had the foresight to include an analog stick in the initial console launch so their games were able to fully take advantage of 3D spatial navigation. PS1 games were forced to support a dpad control scheme so they didn't feel like as big of a departure from 2D.
3) Nintendo/N64 had better attachment rates on their games and their players are more passionate about them. Sony kind of marketed their consoles as more general purpose consumer electronics so their customers were less likely to evangelize their games.

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>>3868584
90% of the reason Skyrim has so many haters is purely because it became really popular with console gamers at a time when PC gaming was at a low point so the latter instinctively resented it. It will never cease to be hilarious that RPG Codex blacklisted the most influential RPG of its decade from their top 101 RPGs.

>>3868874
I very much doubt all of that because it just doesn't fit with what I saw. The PS1 beat the N64 so hard it wasn't even funny. And it wasn't just because of quality of games, people were actively way more interested in the PS1 and not the N64. The latter flopped hard and IMO it only proved losing third party games like that was a huge blow for Nintendo's position in the market.

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>>3868893
None of what I said precludes the PS1 from being the most popular console that gen (it definitely was). But being the most popular doesn't automatically mean you'll be the most influential. Yes, the PS1 shipped a lot more consoles but the top selling games were basically at parity.

PS1 units sold: 102.4m
Games:
1) Gran Turismo 10.8m
2) FF7 10.2m
3) Gran Turismo 2 9.4m
4) FF8 8.6m
5) Tekken 3 8.3m

N64 units sold 32.9m
Games:
1) Super Mario 64 11.9m
2) Mario Kart 64 9.9m
3) GoldenEye 007 8.1m
4) OOT 7.6m
5) Super Smash Bros 5.5m

As you can see, basically an equivalent amount of people played OOT as any of PS1's best selling titles. And what's more, the N64 came the closest to PS1 sales in North America so we can infer that in that market specifically OOT probably outsold every PS1 title. Since the USA was the cultural capital of the world in the 90s and 00s, it makes sense that OOT has a more enduring reputation.

And the analog stick really is a big deal. That became the defining control scheme of 3D games. If it wasn't a big deal, Sony wouldn't have immediately copied it.

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>>3868730
Skyrim did a LOT more to change the face of gaming than OoT. OoT was copied for 2-3 years. AAA-devs are STILL trying (and failing) to copy Skyrim. Also:
>OoT didn't normalize mods, for better or worse
>Retarded YouTubers and 4Channers can still get a shit-ton of internet points babbling about the lore.
>OoT is worth replaying once in a while, but Skyrim, if you like it, is almost endlessly replayable, even without mods.
OoT is cool and all but Skyrim is the first game to top sales charts for almost 15 years in a row. People are still playing (and buying) Skyrim in very large numbers. The only games that have had that level of impact are:
>Pac Man and Donkey Kong in the arcade
>The Mario/Duck Hunt NES cartridge
>Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat (renewed arcade interest)
>possibly FF7 (shut up I was there, and FF7 was when normies started getting into games. It was a really big deal, and the first "press X to watch next 15 minute cutscene" game, a formula still copied to this day even though it's awful and stupid)
>World of Warcraft (created online gaming)
>One of the OG PC rpgs like Wizardry or Ultima, even though they weren't popular back then
>DQ, but only in Japan
Skyrim's on that list. Maybe the original NES Zelda belongs there too, but OoT is way way less influential than any of those. Even Tomb Raider has more claim to popularizing 3D games than OoT.

You idiots under the age of 35 need to shut the fuck up about video game history and influence. Stick to a topic you understand, like jerking off to cartoon porn.

>>3868584
Dragons are so weak in this game. As in even in level 1 playthroughs, they can't do shit, my character have just around 200hp, with all the enchanted gear, and the dragons seldom even reach to half, by the time they are killed. They cause low damage, and have low hp too, most can be finished in one, and the rest within the timespan of two dragonrend shouts. Something that size being brought down by shitty arrows is immersion breaking too, even the weakest type of arrow can cause damage to a dragon in this game. Supposedly dragonscale is some supermaterial in this game, and basic arrow tips should be like bite of a flee to them, but they are being pierced just fine. They fight like retards, not using height to their advantage, e.g flying far, picking something up, flying back throwing it at their opponent from above. Also in case they would be losing a fight, they could just flee (pre-dragonrend), instead of staying and dying. Game is more fun before the dragons appear, and it's very annoying how they roar, and how fast they respawn to their fixed spots, after being killed. I seldom use the shouts in game, basicly dragonrend is the most popular shout, just to get rid of the timewasting dragon spawns faster.

On my most recent run I waited with the civil war questline, past the main quest, for the sole reason of not feeding souls to Alduin, and so that falling stormcloak soldiers could enjoy their afterlife. But I find the civil war writing so shitty, e.g. the constant preach about religion, and freedom of religion (jews wrote this), instead of blood, and nords fighting lesser humans, and fighting elves. So Skyrim will essentially still stay a multiracial, multispecie shithole, just with slightly less elves, and can worship a god that aside of curing diseases (like all others) gives a benefit few could actually enjoy. Also the ability to shout itself wasn't always rare, nor special in the past, almost every crypt in Skyrim holds a few draugrs that can shout.

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>>3868705
I still have yet to use any mods (Other than the Survival Mode stuff, which I consider "the way Skyrim was meant to be played.) I really don't need to read some troon coder's tumblr fanfiction and play with Mary Sue characters and powers. that creation clubs shit sucks fucking balls, like the people who designed it, who do, in fact, literally suck balls.
>but by infinite monkey/typewriter syndrome, there's probably a few decent ones out there by now, I just can't be arsed to dig through coomer slop and retard crap to find them. And no, I don't trust your recommendation.

>>3868959
It depends on your build.

Playing a pure thief is awesome... except for the Dragon fights.

>>3868965
What is the point of thieving? You can buy anything that can be bought within the game with just what you pick up from the shittiest loot. In my most recent run I limited myself to not pick up any armor, from the fallen opponents (partly because the rare ones that don't despawn, not wanting them to lay around in their underwear forever, otherwise not to clutter up my inventory), and still reached 300k gold by the end of the game, with all houses bought. There will be probably at least one last run in the future, on max difficulty, and I'll probably stop picking up anything from fallen opponents, except the special gear from named characters.

>>3868965
Add to this >>3868967 , that I hated every mission with stealth involved, e.g. Thalmor Embassy (could have easily slaughtered everyone there, could literally just jump the fence to get in, without inivisible barrier set by the devs, it's just a lame filler quest), hated the broken sneaking into Fort Neugrad mission, hated sneaking into Alva's house, hated sneaking into Severin Manor. Can't recall any sneak involved quest that was fun, solo stealth archer is fine, but forced missions are not.

On plus side, I finally discovered how to prevent the Thieves Guild mission, from appearing in my journal, by entering Riften from the docks, and immediately start to smith, while Brynjolf tries to start his scripted conversation, but gives up, and never tries again. Exterminating the Thieves Guild, and all of their associates should have been in the base game.

>>3868957
>People are still playing (and buying) Skyrim in very large numbers. The only games that have had that level of impact are:
Add BG3 to that list. Astounding success for a turn-based CRPG.

But these games are one in a decade sort of deal.

>>3868963
>Other than the Survival Mode stuff, which I consider "the way Skyrim was meant to be played. I really don't need to read some troon coder's tumblr fanfiction and play with Mary Sue characters and powers. that creation clubs shit sucks fucking balls, like the people who designed it, who do, in fact, literally suck balls.
But survival mode was literally a "creation club" mod that was made by a modder, anon.

>>3868957
>AAA-devs are STILL trying (and failing) to copy Skyrim
Which ones, and in which ways?

>>3869127
Wrong sir, it was part of the original game but cut for time. That's why all the food exists in the original but unlike previous TES games, it does nothing. Survival Mode was assisted by Bethesda devs so they could re-include it into the game, same as TSLRCM for Kotor2. There's quite a few mods that involve the original developers finishing content that was cut for the release schedule.

>>3869159
You must be at least 1 yrs old to post here.

>>3868995
fuck off furfag

BG3 is only a couple of years old, and hasn't influenced shit. You're even more retarded since BG 1+2 put Bioware on the map (back when that name meant something) and you're shilling the sequel?

Shut up and go back to your troon porn. The mentally stable adults are talking.

>>3868967
Fun, basically. And I'm talking "pure thief" not the "Stealth Archer" meme.

Pure thief changes the game entirely since you have literally zero combat skills except some emergency potions. You're running around a dangerous world where everything can kill you and even the sanctuaries (cities) are full of people who will murder you the moment the catch you fucking around. It makes Skyrim feel vaguely like a Survival Horror game.
>no save scumming allowed, you take those risks

>>3868970
iirc you don't HAVE to sneak in any of those missions. You can just balls to the wall combat in all of them, it's just a little tougher, and has a few minor consequences (like that one NPC gets rekt in the Thalmor Embassy).

Although I too resent the invisible walls around the Embassy. It's one of the few places that kind of thing happens.

>>3869277
I accept your concession.

>>3868730
Sonygger cope.

>>3869279
Alchemy belongs to stealth in Skyrim, so pickpocketing poisons is an option. I wouldn't be against applying poisons via weapons either.

>>3868957
Oot influenced Dark Souls and Botw influenced Elden Ring

>>3869444
In a world where there is only zelda

>>3869274
>it was part of the original game but cut for time. That's why all the food exists in the original but unlike previous TES games, it does nothing.
Bait used to be believable

>>3869444
>Botw influenced Elden Ring
Mega lol, there is zero overlap in design phisophy, level design or world design. Breath of the Wild is closer to Ubisoft slop if anything.

>>3869453
The developers admitted it

>>3869485
and people on the internet used to know how to use search engines before opening their mouths to say something retarded

>>3869285
no, I don't allow jeet chatbots to purchase from the concession stand. You drink out of the toilet, like the rest of your kind.

>>3869536
>>3869285

>>3869535
>and people on the internet used to know how to use search engines before opening their mouths to say something retarded
I was using Alta Vista and Ask Jeeves before you were born. I also played Skyrim when it came out. Claiming that "the food did nothing" is retarded. I'd entertain the possibility of anon's claim that the survival mode was cut content if he can provide a legitimate source, but I'm skeptical.

>>3868963
At this point I feel like 7 mods are mandatory. Ends up being 5 texture packs, ordinator, and ish souls to perks. Sometimes I'll add a big weapon/armor pack too. I don't think you need much more desu. Most people haven't experienced most of the content anyways. I did most of the vanilla stuff but I never got all the dragon shouts or did any of the DLC.

>>3868957
>Skyrim did a LOT more to change the face of gaming than OoT. OoT was copied for 2-3 years.
any game with a lock-on system for melee combat is still copying OoT's z-targeting, and I'm not even a nintoddler

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>>3869490

>>3869444
skyrim's surprising popularity in japan (for a western game) influenced botw, as stated by aonuma himself

>>3868584
If you aren't modding it, you aren't actually getting the experience that made it a landmark game. In fact, vanilla unmodded Skyrim is widely understood as a mediocre game at the absolute best. Glaring game mechanics and balance issues in Skyrim are literally used as textbook examples when teaching game design in schools. Various environment / world design flaws, ditto. On the more technical side, the Gamebryo engine has been the archetypical paragon of "sloppy, non-performant mess" for more than twenty five years.

You need mods to address all of this.

>>3868730
I don't know anyone who had a PS1. It was the knock-off Walmart branded console of that era. No one who gamed primarily on a console had anything to do with PS1 with only rare exceptions for FF7 for example.

>>3870544
>teaching game design in schools
We've seem what that repetitious and rote nonsense produces. Wouldn't lean on that as an argument at all.

>>3868584
Looking back it's impressive they managed to perfect their formula on time, on 7th gen consoles. That gen is almost 20 years old, but Skyrim has hardly aged, unlike Oblivion which still had some rough edges.

So the "getting the form right" was achieved, but the greater challenge of "taking the next step" remains. What can the series do to impress players yet again?

>>3870545
>I don't know anyone who had a PS1. It was the knock-off Walmart branded console of that era.
PSX outsold N64 like 3 to 1, dude. Anecdotal, but that ratio tracks with my experience, I hardly knew anyone with a 64 but multiple with a PlayStation, including myself.
>No one who gamed primarily on a console had anything to do with PS1
Maybe here’s your problem. Most people I knew played primarily on PC, and only occasionally dabbled on a console. What kind of peasant was “primarily on a console?”

>>3868594
>improved

>>3868584
Skyrimbros, I'm starting a new character. Do healing spells work on summons?

>>3872150
learn2Google, faggot

>>3872520
go back to /v/ shithead

>>3868584
>.Good for you, I just replay it and it was even worst than I remember.

Skyrim is just a shitty Morrowind

Hey you, you're finally awake

Happy 11.11 skyrimbros. What kind of character are you crossing the border with today? I made an old breton man, going pure mage.

>>3872664
Morrowind is just shitty Breath of the Wild

>>3872744
>I made an old breton man, going pure mage.
Damn elves, I bet they had something to do with this

>>3872931
**Morrowind is just good Breath of the Wild

>>3872744
I'm doing a female Breton with a ponytail just like I did in Morrowind and Oblivion

>>3868584
Make sure to install the mod that turns Serana into a sex fiend.

>>3872744
Happy 11/11 Anon.

I'm finally doing a full mage High Elf, renegade who quit the Thalmor and has come to aid the Stormcloaks (hence why the Imperials are trying to execute him.)

>>3868957
>The only games that have had that level of impact are:
You failed to list Minecraft.
I guess that makes sense, since it is easily 10 times bigger than Skyrim. Not on the same level.

>World of Warcraft (created online gaming)
Nevermind, you're braindead.

>>3872150
I think you need a perk for that

>>3870541
Based japs. They recognize good shit when they see it.

>begin pure mage playthrough
>absolutely blessed by great loot..
>..for warriors
Nice try, Skyrim, but I'm not easily swayed.
I'm now a novice of every spell school, and have learned most novice level spells.

First close call came when I accidentally tripped over a mudcrab, who almost killed me, triggering the tutorial low health pop up message.
>>3873052
That altmer +50 magicka is helpful. I might have to rely on elsweyr fondue for the +100 bonus
>>3873094
Yes it looks like healing or illusion's Courage spells don't work on undead or summons. I'll probably join up with a companion at some point.

Skyrim gets boring after 20 minutes, what's the appeal.

>>3873163
>>I'll probably join up with a companion at some point.
>in whiterun wilds
>a stray dog appears and starts following me
>ok sure let's go buddy
>buy a horse and ride it to dawnstar
>remember the dog and realize it's gone
>go back looking for it
>nowhere to be seen
>assume the worst
Rest in piece, Stray Dog

Are the other horses better? The whiterun horse doesn't seem to have much stamina

>>3870541
It's not surprising, Skyrim had katanas (blades faction swords), I guess earlier TES titles had even more variety, but graphics was shit, and gameplay not that fun.

>>3873306
The first 20 minutes is one of the most boring part of the game, intro/tutorial/riverwood talking.

On the other hand, I have been thinking that what if the entire game is some anti-white programming, with the most common enemies are draugr (undead norse people), and falmer (snow elves), both designed monstrous, to associate whiteness with death and ugliness. Aside of the way too frequent wolves, and bear nuisance animal spawn, but that could be an useful cautionary tale for anyone liking those beasts. Also Skyrim pushing the bullshit equality propaganda, everyone being the same height, no differing character attributes, racial traits reduced too, so that sucks too. Commie vibe, but I just love the nordic people so much, that I keep coming back (also because there aren't any actual decent alternatives out there).

>>3874212
>anti-white programming, with the most common enemies are draugr (undead norse people), and falmer (snow elves), both designed monstrous
Are you retarded

>>3874220
No, why would they write part of the game to be desecrating the tomb of one's own people (almost everyone play as nords)? Also why would they write an entire pure elven race, just to turn it into something twisted?

Game clearly have anti-white elements, you can barely find a young nord-nord couple within the game.

>>3874224
Did you not play far enough to get to the sidequest with the nord going into his family tomb to stop a necromancer m
Or the whole explanation of how the snow elves were enemies of the nords

>>3874225
He's just a schizo >>3870033
Pay no attention.

>>3874225
I played through a game a dozen time. I did help Golldir, even made him a blades member in one playthrough. Doesn't give an excuse for disturbing more than a dozen other tombs, for no legitimate reason.

Also know the snow elf lore, but why write that out of all the elves, the nords ended up fighting the most similar to themself? It's was a deliberate writing choice, why not write opponents that are more different? What would be most obvious, is fighting the dunmer, as they are pests migrating to nord lands? In fact in Morrowind they refer to a past nord-dunmer war, so that hostility could have continued, with full on hatered from both groups toward each other. But that would not had any moral ambiguity, because everyone prefer the nords, over the filthy blue pajeets.

>>3874228
Why would the Dunmer want to invade Skyrim?

>>3874230
Living space, clean air, clean water. Bluejeets have already mass migrated to Windhelm by the time of Skyrim. To not live on an island with an active vulcano, filled with monsters, and giants insects, where the air is so filled with ash, that breating it for prolonged time turn all residents voice as if they were lifetime chainsmokers with their lungs about to give up.

>>3868584
I was trying to play it but my save file crashed.
Classic WRPG experience.

>>3874234
>Living space
Whoa, who’s the “Nazis” now, huh Stormcloak-haters? Checkmate.

>>3874212
take your meds

>>3868587
based af screen shot. I used to lure thalmar to that talos shrine east of whiterun, in a small alcove in the rock.
heh

>come across a thalmor squad leaving behind a pile of stormcloak corpses
How likely are stormcloaks to win against the elves?

>>3869159
darksouls games copy alot from Skyrim, with darker tones. it's like Skyrim mixed with that dumb slashing game, had blood in its name.
I'm sure there's others but I haven't purchased many games in a while, due to poor quality and woke shit

>>3872150
yes, not all but yes

>>3873306
you're playing it wrong, plenty to do.

Playing pure mage, illusion has been the most valuable school of magic, surprisingly. Neutralizes most threats I've come across while traveling.
For draugr though I have to get more powerful summons and turn undead spells. Saarthal had some tricky boss fights, but I won using Jyrik's own staff against him.

>>3875945
Illusion and Restoration are fun and underrated

I seriously don't get how people manage to play these (Bethesda) games for more than two hours.

>>3876158
Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic.

I'm replaying Skyrim, maybe for the last time, because at this run I play fully vanilla, not consol fuckery, not even unlimited carry weight, but on "Legendary" difficulty. The start sucks real bad so far, tutorial fights were mainly letting Ralof kill the imperials. Then I headed to Falkreath, and I die all the time outside of the city, to sprigans... They drain my characters health so fast... I guess with smithing, and alchemy, the later game will become easy like this too, but the start sucks real bad. I'll play through anyways, just so I can tell that I did, I'll listen to podcasts while playing anyways.

Which is more fun, warrior or mage? On console

>>3876299
What the joke is in this game, that there are delivery quests, with 15-30 seconds of gameplay (mostly talking), e.g. in Falkreath deliver the ashes to the priest of Arkay, while in the same game beggers beg (annoy the play with their lines) for 1 gold piece... Same amount that a player could get for picking up a single piece of vegetable... They could just chop wood too in any town for money, and yet they beg instead. Intentionally written annoying npc-s, for no actual ingame purpose whatsoever, just to disturb the player.

>>3876299
>draw sprigan to city guard
>city guard can't handle it
>try to help the city guard with arrows
>one arrow accidentally hits the city guard
>I get one shotted by an other city guard
>who ignored the city guard being attacked by the sprigan

>>3876158
They are. For now my priority is getting training and fortify gear for restoration, so I get wards for mages and turn undead for draugr.
I'm also about to get the quiet casting perk from illusion, which will enable me to use destruction runes stealthily.

>>3876309
Sword & board is the most active playstyle in my experience. Utilize shouts and it gets more versatile.

>>3876320
>repeat a few times
>usually die before reaching the city
>second guard just watches his college getting mauled by the monster
>commenting: "I'm staying out of this"
"Not my problem." Skyrim edition... Eventually I just helped the struggling guard with my sword, and that worked (also not to ignore the 50 or so arrows the spriggan got while half stuck into the ruin where I found it). Likely this run will delove into a stealth archer run again, or just having an essential follower tank for me. The one thing that will be left to do after this run, is a level 1 Legendary run.

Sprigans are brutal on legendary difficulty. Cleared two sites by drawing them back to Falkreath. But there is the Evergreen Grove nearby, with two sprigans, that is fairly far, so tried to draw those sprigans to the nearby orc stronghold instead, and the sprigans easily wiped them out, so killing them is the drawing to city guard method only, for now. Mind you I have 200hp already, but they drain it away in seconds on this difficulty.

Ended up drawing those two back to Falkreath as well, by the time I drawn the second back, it was night, 6 city guards were fighting a master vampire, quite a carnage, and they finished the vampire earlier than the sprigan, they even lost a guard.

Not sure how tf, I'll clear out Valdr's cave, for his lucky dagger...

>>3876766
Resist poison
Fire enchanted weapon
Summon fire atronach

>>3876824
Any idea on how to save the people at the Gildergreen sanctuary on legendary, while still getting the sap? On lower difficulties, I barely managed to keep them alive, with "rally" spell, pickpocket giving them potions, and rushing down to take out the sprigans. Doing the same on this difficulty might be more complex issue... Maybe a strong follower, with the wait command standing there, not sure if that would be enough.

>>3876871
No. Bring the priest to resolve the quest peacefully, or face the consequences of your choice and nature's wrath

>>3876876
It's a retardedly written quest "no access to the tree" literally could just climb over the roots, without the games retarded physics (or use levitate spell, which is canon from earlier titles), and if you already started to hack at the roots, might as well get a little sap, once reaching the tree. Also if you can prevent death of nords, you should, those two npc-s can be saved, so might as well do it. Also the other option in the game was released broken, as you'd still only see the old tree, instead of the new tiny one.

>>3876881
Look, I don't care about your complaints.

>>3876891
You like to dance close to the fire, don't you?

14 years after release, today was the first time I cast the waterbreathing spell, to explore a sunken ship on the northern shores.
I think today was the first time I used a fortify illusion potion as well, so that my frenzy spell would work on a pack of frost trolls. I want to learn how to make those potions myself, I would buy a recipe for 500 septims. Until I find it, I'll look for them in alchemy shops.
I don't remember getting a random encounter with a vampire attack survivor before today, either.
And I stumbled in Ulfric's bedroom for the first time too, looking to deliver some alchemy stuff to the court wizard (he wasn't there)

My favorite tweak to TES games: disable skills increasing by use, only able to pay for training. Puts you in total control of what you level up and what you don’t, and also makes money valuable for the entire game, not just the beginning.

>>3876984
>puts you in control
Some skills are such a pain to find trainers for though, especially in survival mode

Also, you can control levelling up in skills by not using the skill. It's not exactly hard.

>>3876988
>Also, you can control levelling up in skills by not using the skill. It's not exactly hard.
Mostly but not quite. You can get unwanted skill increases from quest rewards or accidentally reading books, and at least in Skyrim specifically, trickle amounts of skill XP from unintuitive actions. E.g. if you’re playing a full warrior who never once sneaks, ever, you will eventually level up sneak by trace amounts of XP gained while exploring dungeons with an enemy on the other side of a wall who hasn’t spotted you yet.

>>3876824
Ended up using Barbas (turned off audio to be able to tolerate him), and a Staff of Fireball... Just to show what kind of pile of shit this game is, the quest broke on start, and it skipped the healing potion part...

Also damaging enemies is so damn slow on legendary... You do 25% damage, so smithing, and alchemy will be pretty much mandatory, just to reach the normal level of damage, and seem like will need an essential follower early on, to clear some opponents. Also have been using up hundreds of arrows per boss enemy, because arrows barely tickle them (e.g. master vampire took about 200 arrows to fall, mostly iron, some steel, and some ancient), and spamming shots from elevated positions they can't reach (basicly abusing broken game pathing, those opponents should have no problem reaching my character there, if they would just jump like mine).

Missing spears from Morrowind... it would have made legendary run more tolerable...

>notice Skyrim in the PS Plus catalogue
>download it because why not
>realize the game plays like ass on a controller
>uninstall
I really don't know how console people put up with it

>>3877026
You can play it with an usb keyboard and mouse on ps too, sometimes wirless keyboard/mouse combo runs from just one usb device, but the ps would probably recognize an usb hub, if you have separate, and wired usb keyboard, and mouse.

>booted up skyrim for the first time in about 3 years
>nothing (most) things work but the game crashes after about an hour
>do a clean install and reenable all mods and enb
>it just works flawlessly
Thanks Tood

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>>3877003
lmao but literally none of this matters bcuz xp diminishes the higher the skill gets. If you're that bent out of shape over getting half a level from all the locks you picked why not just console command whatever you want your skills to be?

My god this is some autism, and TES games are literally the worst franchise for that number-micromanage autism. You're one of those people from the meme who can't even see an apple in your head, just an empty space.

>>3877121
Unlike you, I can visualize the abstract concept of someone unable to visualize , without needing a graphical depiction to remind me of what that might hypothetically look like. I can also understand why someone might enjoy something that I personally dislike, or why someone might choose to do something in a different way than I would. You may want to reconsider which of us has a touch of the 'tism here, anon.
>why not just console command whatever you want your skills to be?
I spent five minutes and made a little mod that does what I want, and now I can enjoy this single player game in the fashion of my choosing.

30 hours in at level 20, my pure mage finally reached adept levels at conjuration, destruction and alteration. One level up and I can train illusion and restoration to 50 as well. Now could be a good time to switch from the mage standing stone to something else.
From here I'll probably continue the college quests. Summon frost atronach grants a big boost in confidence.

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>>3877420

>>3877422
>hard work

>>3873306
>what's the appeal
You can install a mod where Alduin can eat you.

>leave winterhold during snowstorm
>out of nowhere a snow tiger oneshots me
>reload, leave town, ready for anything
>tiger got me again
>reload, take the horse and escape the frozen hell hole
The most memorable moment came when I arrived on the hills looking down at whiterun during sunrise. I've been just travelling the land for the last few ours, maybe doing small quests here and there. Skyrim still has the best game world in my opinion.

Good times, but I'm getting ready to end the playthrough to play another game.

>>3878898
I continued roaming the rift, and eventually found orcs getting destroyed by giants. I helped them with their Malacath business, then left to sell Volendrung and took the money to Faralda and trained destruction to 60. I also bought a ring of destruction and destruction potions. With the increased damage perks, destruction tree is complete enough for now, and upcoming perk points will likely go to illusion and alteration.
At the college I asked the cat mage to follow as we went to find the books about saarthal. We saved Orthorn but he didn't make it out alive. I'm pretty sure I used the Banish Daedra spell for the first time in the fort and during the Caller boss fight.

>>3868584
It is sad to admit that I am several dozen times more successful in Skyrim than I am here in The World of Planet Earth.

>>3879579
This guy gets to the cloud district.

Skyrim > Morrowind >>>>>>> shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oblivion

>>3878898
It's well known that in Tamriel a horde of bandits and goblins are far less dangerous than a single bear or tiger.

My mage has completed the mage questline at level 25 and 49 hours of playtime.

Never really thought about how big of a theme "safety with magic" is in the college questline, but it does make sense to give nords valid reasons to hate mages. I also appreciate having all those factions meddling, and I killed the synod guy too, after he made some threats.
Morokei, archmage robes and shock resist boots are a nice reward.

>>3879931
True enough, I got killed again by a tiger and a perfectly camouflaged snow bear. I started using detect life spell out in the wilderness.

>>3880198
In 2009ish when I played Oblivion for the first time I got used to heroically clearing out an entire dungeon full of goblins, liches, atronarchs, and other demons, leabing the dungeon feeling like the most Heckin Ebic Conan badass Chad ever, then a single mountain lion walks up, takes my lunch money and teabags my corpse.

When I first played Skyrim years later, I quickly learned that nothing had really changed. I quickly got in the habit of getting Voice of the Sky before every trip through the wilderness, just like I always rushed the Boots of the Nine in Oblivion playthroughs.

I'm pretty sure if a SabreCat had been hanging around Helgen, then Alduin would have gotten his shit pushed in before the tutorial ended.

>>3868584
You are absolutely right. Things really have gotten so bad that Skyrim seems better now even though it is trash that has been dumbed down for morons.

>>3874212
Oh lol look it's that retarded acne ridden faggot who says the Empire is Jewish
How's Mexico this time of year?

>>3880590
>I'm pretty sure if a SabreCat had been hanging around Helgen, then Alduin would have gotten his shit pushed in before the tutorial ended.
Kek at the very least, Alduin gets the combat music and looks around nervously whenever he happens to fly over a saber tooth tiger

>>3871763
>What kind of peasant was “primarily on a console?”
A kid?

I still don't get what people find enjoyable about this.
>disgusting graphics
>terrible performance and endless bugs
>awful combat
>idiotic enemy ai
>literally no good loot (enjoy 8gp and another iron sword)
>the worst writing imaginable
>nothing interesting
>every dungeon is identical

I'll grant you that the music is pleasant and being in that world with that music, while ignoring literally everything else, is nice.

I haven't started main quest, but I was still able to get Septimus' quest into Blackreach, where I found Shalidor's writings and uploaded dwemer memes into the dwemer USB cube. In blackreach I got into a big ass battle where I used spells from every school of magic. It was pretty epic. I got conjuration and alteration to 65 enabling me to buy storm atronach, expel daedra and paralyze spells, and the mage is feeling quite powerful. Most fights have enemies launching in the air ragdolling.

Now it's a long walk back to Septimus to deliver the cube, while passing through towns to sell all the loot.

How is one supposed to beat frost trolls on legendary difficulty? I'm struggling at level 20. Can't draw it into a trap (Bleak Falls Barrow), because the tunnel toward it is too narrow. Tried picking at it with two hander, but the issue is, occasionally it reach me too, and take me out in two swings, and my healing is still too slow to take it out. Should I just bypass it, will the location still be cleared? Also tried to draw that last draugr to have a go at the frost troll, it didn't even damage it, before it was taken out. Also I ran out of arrows already...

>>3880965
Add to this, that I lost Barbas somewhere (probably stuck in terrain, and teleported to the next stage of his quest), so can't use him as tank...

>>3880965
Figured it out, went forward to the next part of barrow, drawn the boss Draugr Scourge Lord back into this area, it took out the frost troll, and then the scourge lord can be finished off by the trap door a bit further back.

>>3880761
>disgusting graphics
Stopped reading here. Even the plain ol’ unmodded special edition still looks pretty damn good for how old it is. You obviously have no frame of reference for how graphics have evolved over the decades.

>>3880981
Not him, but just because it looked awesome in the era the game came out, doesn't necesserily mean it could stand it's ground at the current era. I'm still playing the game, currently doing a legendary run.

>>3880986
>still looks
Present tense, not past tense. Vanilla Morrowind looks like shit today. Skyrim SE looks fine today.

>>3880997
As to Skyrim, it looks ok, except the design of most armor sets, and some weapons, with a bunch of retarded unsymmetric designer shit added to them, that are very annoying.

I played Morrowind (for the first time) a few weeks ago, it did not age well. Missing a bunch of features from it though... now that I tried it. E.g. spears were awesome. Separate armor pieces, and separate weapon skills were also a good feature. Skyrim could use levitation spell as well. Faster running, and higher jumping would also be nice. Otherwise Morrowind sucks, because 90% of it is useless talking, and barely any action.

>>3880965
>How is one supposed to beat frost trolls on legendary difficulty?
Aversion to fire poison
Fire enchanted weapon
Summon fire atronach (comes with its own fire cloak)

Bonus tip: augmented flames perk from destruction also increases fire damage on enchanted weapons

>>3868584
not nearly as good as it could have been.

Mage reached lvl 35, now an expert in conjuration, alteration and illusion. Upcoming perks will go to either expert destruction or restoration, or in the illusion tree for better frenzies.

I've been running around gathering the pieces of mehrunes razor, having fun with magic.
One cave had a lone bandit chief leaning against a wall. I cast paralyze on him, and he fell face first into an oil spill, which then got ignited by my flame cloak and fireballs. The guy fried in seconds.
Next up I saved 2 mines by killing forsworn and by persuading sellswords to leave. It was nice seeing the miners return to work.

Finally I went with the mythic dawn guy to mehrunes' shrine. I noted we passed by the vigilant of stendarr headquarters. I chose to spare Silus, and visited his museum afterwards to see him and the razor for the last time.

>>3881346
>It was nice seeing the miners return to work.
Oh, boy...

>>3868594
>For others it was an improved TES game
and for everyone else, it was extremely disappointing
skyrim is basically the cutoff point. for yrs, no new RPGs were made that werent entirely guided by the principal of skyrims design. that being,
>"how do we make an RPG where literally the dumbest fucking retards on the entire planet can play it?"
the answer, of course, is to make an extremely shallow action game with some diet-RPG mechanics sprinkled on top

>>3881346
not a fan of daggers i take it?
the razor is extremely OP

>>3881578
I'm playing a mage, there's no use or room for weapons, so I let the mythic dawn guy live and learn from his mistakes, this one time.

I was thinking it could be fun to play a pure thief and try to avoid killing people, then later in the playthrough use the mehrunes razor quest as a turning point for the character to turn into an assassin.

>>3881808
>then later in the playthrough use the mehrunes razor quest as a turning point for the character to turn into an assassin.
yea thats usually how i used it
its one of the few actual RPing choices youre given

>>3880761
I guess I'm on of the few people who hate the layout of Skyrim. No cross country travel. Just one big loop. Oblivion had this problem as well, but its more noticeable in Skyrim.

>>3881944
Any daedra quest has a good excuse to turn evil.. except maybe the beacon lady. Although Meridia too can be used as a gateway daedra to the harder stuff.

>>3881953
>Oblivion had this problem as well, but its more noticeable in Skyrim
athletics skill and speed stat save the day, once again
cutting fast lines through oblivions overworld and blasting off of strange geometry by timing my jump and casting a temp spell to boost acrobatics and speed is probably my core memory of oblivion probably for the best lol

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>>3881977
meridias not even a daedra, thats why. and imo shes still the "harder stuff" than most azura worshippers. by a lot.
the only time azura seemed like an actual daedra was in faggerfall, where she was more like a bimbo demon based around vanity. turning her followers into mindless vain bimbo husks

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>>3881988
to add
not that i mind azura getting a more srs role plotwise, i just think shes been made too non-threatening. the aspect about vanity is still repeated in lore to this day, that elf in skyrims quest tells you, "hey shes actually rly evil desu". but that aspect is never played up in-game. shes always totally benevolent.
made some sense in morrowind, since it was HER prophecy youre fulfilling. makes less sense when you can steal and corrupt her star from her and shes just chill with it lol

>>3881988
>>3881989
A character could notice how easily Azura abandons her devoted worshippers, after they have served their purpose to her. Depending on how much one wants to read into that.

I dunno, it's something to think about while trapping souls.

Anyways I like Azura being subtle and/or up to interpretation. Daedra lords having different shades of grey to accommodate all kinds of characters.

>>3882017
Wasn't very subtle in Morrowind.

>>3882059
Wasn't subtle in what way?

>>3882063
Giving you a vision of being the chosen guy at the game's intro, later telling you what to do (who to talk to for further instructions).

>>3881984
>>3881984
The best thing with high Acrobat, and Athletics was running through Oblivion gates, without actually fighting anyone inside them. Only the guards outside of it were needed to be disposed of (though even that was optional), to avoid the nuisance later while passing through the same area later again. What the severely disappointing joke in that game was at the end, that you didn't need to fight at the last mission either, could just run around Mehrunes Dagon.

>>3882067
That was nice of her to give visions, but it could also be viewed as her using nerevarine as a tool of revenge against the tribunal, who had disrespected her and stolen her spotlight

>>3882074
The dunmer wasn't always blue colored is an interesting part of the lore. The game wasn't quite clear if they got blue because Azura was butthurt ("azure" is a type of blue). I'd imagine the Dunmer would be more mad at Azura about doing that. I would not want to be blue.

>>3882078
It is interesting. In response to what the tribunal did, a whole race was cursed with the blues. Maybe a slight overreaction.
Or if she wanted HER people to look like her.. an interesting thought

>>3868594
yeah, my first TES was Oblivion and it was indeed fundamental for me

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Will Skyrim modding die when TES 6 comes out?

>>3882283
No.
TES VI will be dogshit like starfield. Microsoft will then dissolve Bethesda.
Morrowind and Skyrim will be replayed until the end of time.

>>3868594
you forgot an important demographic:
>people who had played previous TES games but were really into vikings and desperate for some Nord-focused storytime

I was so happy I didn't give a shit that Skyrim ruined Conjuration and made 1h axes and 2h axes two different skills. I wanted Viking kino and got Viking kino.

>>3873074
the handful of retarded sociopaths who played UO and EQ don't count, neither does that 1995 shit no one ever played.

We're talking about normie influence here, and for better or worse, online MMOs didn't exist until WoW.

>normie
nebulous and vague empty term that effectively means nothing
communicate properly or not at all

>>3881346
I unlocked expert destruction. I wasn't impressed by incinerate, but fell in love with the wall of flames spell, and they became my go to spells.

Against a master necromancer I cast cloak of storms, put up a greater ward, and wall of storms as I approached her, and the hag was completely powerless. She couldn't put up wards, and was out of magicka in seconds.
Against Yngol's shade I used cloak and wall of flames as it was busy with an atronach.
And of course paralyze + wall spell is a chill way of deleting anything.

Speaking of Yngol, his tomb is one of the coolest. A book gives some lore, and then it's a quiet walk through the crypt, with only the sounds of strange orbs making their way towards the helm of yngol, and disappearing once the shade is defeated and the helmet is claimed.

>>3882466
I hit level 40 with 100 alteration.
Bad news:
>I'm getting oneshot by archers unless buffed with ebony flesh and sleeping tree sap
Good news:
>Dragons have returned
I got heartscales from a dragon and Tolfdir made me the dragonhide spell which grants 80% resistance to physical. Earlier I got the perks for better atronachs and better wards. Now I've started magicka regeneration maxxing, with the regen perks from restoration, morokei, and amulet of akatosh. I only need to find a ring, then it's complete. A dragon taking flight doesn't bother much when it allows time to regen back to full magicka.

And then there's shouts now. I already escaped death by whirlwind sprinting away from a mammoth, that was with a giant who had a bounty placed on him, who aggroed on me after we killed a dragon together.

But I received a sign of the end times for this playthrough: I have exhausted all of Maiq the Liar's dialogue.

>>3868643
Morrowind was my first one and nothing has ever come close to that.

>>3868730
Funnily enough, Majora's Mask and Goldeneye seemed more popular back then.

>>3868893
You could pirate the PlayStation for like 5-15 bucks so everyone had it

>>3882345
there's no way to properly communicate with an autistic retard
if you're too dumb to understand that's your problem not mine

Any good modlists that aren't 3 million gigabytes?
I don't need fancy graphics and shit, I just want better rpg mechanics and more content.

>>3883307
The best modlist is the one that you make yourself. Preferably, small a la carte mods that you make yourself.
A modlist is complete not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

>>3883307
I agree with >>3883309. It's better to find a bunch of individual mods that do just what you want instead of overwhelming yourself with big modlists that change everything in ways you may or may not like.

That said, considering what you're looking for, I'd suggest starting with a perk mod and some quest mods. Ordinator is good for perks. As for quests, I found Falskaar, Wyrmstooth, and Interesting NPCs to be pretty good. Interesting NPCs, in particular, has some good dialogue and character moments.

Skyrims perk system gets too much hate.
Its a better and more interesting system than levelling attributes in morrowind and oblivion. It makes levelling a lot more exciting since you're getting a tangible bonus with every level, not just putting a couple points into attributes that barely make a visible difference.
Morrowind is my favourite tes these days but perks are the one thing skyrim does better mechanically.
The only issue is that theres a lot of boring perks and they removed a lot of skills.
Hopefully they improve this system further in the next game instead of dumbing things down further.

>>3883307
I recommend a mod to hide the compass. A surprising boost on immersion, when you don't get all that information on the top screen, and instead pay attention to the world. Roadposts, footsteps of enemies.

>>3883400
Agreed. And hopefully there's more customization settings like in Starfield.

>>3883400
I'd like to see attributes come back, but that's because I'd like to see them used for roleplaying, i.e. having attribute checks in dialogue and for doing stuff in the world. Stuff like using strength to move something heavy, wisdom/insight to tell if someone's lying to you, or getting hit on if you have high charisma.

>>3883453
>having attribute checks in dialogue and for doing stuff in the world
Can be done with perks instead

>>3883453
I'd like attributes back, just with a less shit levelling system.
Having checks would definitely be an improvement but I can't see bethesda ever going in that direction.

>>3883454
Not really. Attributes and skills/perks aren't the same. Trying to do it with perks would lead to weird, unnatural stuff like "Move Stuff: Can lift light/medium/heavy things" or "Attractiveness: You're considered ugly/average/hot". It wouldn't make sense. And you'd have to awkwardly assign these perks to skills, whether or not they make sense. I mean, what skill would you link intelligence-related things to? One of the magic schools? All of the magic schools? Alchemy? That would get really cluttered. Would you link charisma stuff to Speech? Being a persuasive speaker doesn't mean you're good-looking. What about endurance? You'd link it to weapon or armor skills, maybe? But those skills have nothing to do with resisting poison or something. Having both skills and attributes makes sense and allows for more depth and more possibilities.

>>3883492
>Trying to do it with perks would lead to weird, unnatural stuff like "Move Stuff: Can lift light/medium/heavy things"
Deus Ex did this
>or "Attractiveness: You're considered ugly/average/hot"
Oblivion and Skyrim did this

>>3868584
The dialogue is fucking awful and the voice acting is barely passable. The story is pretty much the same thing Bethesda has been doing for decades. It's all filler for the only reason Bethesda is popular; they do exploration and freedom "right". You can get generally the same experience in any Bethesda game post Morrowind, which is the superior game simply for the fact that I don't have to listen to shitty voice actors rattle off pseudo-intellectual nonsense, and is also the reason why I enjoyed Fallout 76 so much at launch because it had no NPC story characters.

>>3883492
>It wouldn't make sense.
>I mean, what skill would you link intelligence-related things to? One of the magic schools? All of the magic schools? Alchemy? That would get really cluttered.
I don't believe it's complicated.

In Skyrim, during conversation with Farengar, you get optional dialogue options for having alchemy, and/or enchanting, and/or any magic school above 25.

Quests can also go beyond skill/attribute checks:
>Oblivion had a dialogue option that checks if you're a member of the mages guild
>Oblivion had an option if you had already read a specific book
>Skyrim had an option if you had already discovered a location
>Skyrim had a check for knowing a specific spell

The sky is the limit for quest designers

>move stuff
A check for carry weight
>attractiveness
Allure perk from speech
>endurance
check for stamina, and/or windwalker and/or conditioned
>resist poison
Snakeblood from alchemy
>intelligence-related things
Depends on what it relates to, could be anything

We could sit here all day imagining new quests and their options, and how perks and stats are handled in the upcoming Elder Scrolls VI.

>>3868957
DOOM mogs all of these games

>>3882990
I went back for a couple of hours, and got to level 41. 500 magicka now, 600 with elsweyr fondue. Was about to spend the perk on illusion, but noticed I still needed expert restoration, for greater turn undead. Now the character is an expert in all schools of magic.

I died about 10 times to arrows, traps and decapitations raiding forsworn strongholds, but returning to whiterun I found the ring I was looking for at belethor's shop, the one with +80% magicka regeneration.

I investigated the gauldur legend further by getting the third amulet piece. High level mage gameplay has been fun, and things went smoothly. Summons, turn undead, expel daedra, flame cloak and flame walls all had their uses. Feels like I made the right choice going for magicka regen. I still need to go restore the gauldur amulet and stash it in the college of winterhold.
I wonder if I can cheese the draugr bosses by drinking a potion of fortify restoration and then making them flee with turn undead.

>>3883558
Spouting L takes is a privilege, not a right. If you're gonna do it, do it properly, dipshit.

>>3882283
Skyrim has been the latest TES game for so long it might just have a permanent audience now for all I know, but if TES is just outright a better game I think it could kill Skyrim's modding.

>>3885889
>but if TES6 is just outright a better game
Forgot the 6 part. I don't have much faith in it either way

>>3885892
It depends on Bethesda learning from Starfield mistakes or understanding what makes Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim great.
Which I doubt, since they seem to get things right -when they do- more by luck than actually knowing what they're doing. Moreso now that Microsft calls the shots.
The more time passes they more convinced I am that Skyrim's success was lightning in a bottle due to inside and outside circumstances that can't be replicated.

>>3885962
>It depends on Bethesda learning from Starfield mistakes
>Which I doubt
Are you afraid Skyrim 2 will have 1000 planets?

>>3885965
Not him, but I'm afraid it's going to have some base building bullshit that you can't ignore

>>3885966
Did Skyrim have that?

>>3868584
Skyrim is good but gets boring so fast. Even with mods.

>>3885969
I've never got bored playing Skyrim for some reason, with or without mods. Probably the game I had most fun playing since the turn of the century, I beleive.

>>3885977
It's because you're a happy donkey who's never played anything beyond a console game. You're a faggot low IQ normie. Not even trying to be mean, but if you've been entertained by Skyrim for a decade you're unimaginative smooth brained nimcompoop

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>>3868584
GotD, no idea how anyone debates that without being a contrarian who hates ER now.

>>3868584
I’m too lazy to get all my mods working again.

>>3886423
>contrarian who hates ER now.
It's a decent show, but I'm more of a Scrubs guy

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>>3868584
I recently got the most intense version of the Nolvus modpack to work and its breathed new life into the game for me. Really cool playing it from a different perspective and with updated everything. It's a huge modlist though so might not be right for that one anon who wants to just try things out and keep things lightweight.

Mead is in the mail. Pic unrelated.

I used to play a lot of Skyrim but in the intervening years I have played a ton of Daggerfall and Morrowind and now I find it very hard to get into Skyrim again because it feels so linear and streamlined. For example I hate how they removed traditional TES style factions in favor of short questlines centred in one location like the Companions in Whiterun. It doesn't feel like I'm in a faction, it feels like I'm doing a questline. I have tried a bunch of mods but nothing ever seems to really fix this feeling, I just can't feel immersed into the world. Should I change my perspective or something? How do I learn to enjoy Skyrim again?

>>3887992
Play something else.

>>3868957
hell even the people who made skyrim are still trying and failing to copy skyrim.

>>3888018
>hell even the people who made skyrim are still trying and failing to copy skyrim.
Am reminded of DICE, after accidentally perfecting Battlefield's combat in the shitty console spin-off, Bad Company 2, asking players for years to explain what they did right. "Please, help us, what did you like about our game? We don't know what we're doing."

>>3888018
Do you mean Wyrdsong by Something Wicked Games?

>>3888021
I think he means Bethesda, anon.

I just noticed that Ordinator's speech tree has no perk to improve persuasion, just intimidation. I looked it up and apparently it's because Enai thinks such a perk would be a "useless trap option" because you can pass every speech check with 100 skill or the Amulet of Articulation. Which is like saying that a perk to make locks easier to pick is useless because you can just git gud at the minigame or get the Skeleton Key, yet Ordinator has two such perks.

>>3890646
>modder is an arbitrary retard
Many such cases

>>3890646
>thinks such a perk would be a "useless trap option" because you can pass every speech check with 100 skill
Only one check requires 100, other checks can be passed with 75 speech, or 53 with vanilla perk.

Various speech checks could be made harder, but I doubt a perk mod wants to go editing quest dialogue and causing compatibility issues.

Sometimes there's no ideal solutions, and the reasoning to cut the perk isn't unreasonable. I haven't played the mod, so I don't know how tight it is with perk point economy.

>>3891924
There was a speech check that required 100? I barely remember any of them in the game at all

>>3891940
Entering CoW requires casting a spell, shout, or 100 or 70 speech. There's speech checks in quests and recurring random encounters, enough that I would go for speech if roleplaying a thief. Well, speech comes along with bartering, but still. Passing speech checks is a neat bonus.

>>3891924
>I haven't played the mod, so I don't know how tight it is with perk point economy.
It's one perk per level, like vanilla.

I still think it would be good to have a persuasion perk. Speech is hard to raise, and it's a pure stat check with no player skill involved, so being able to invest a point to actively improve it would be a good thing. 75 to 53 is a pretty big difference. Also, like I said, the mod has two perks to improve lockpicking, which is arguably more useless, because you can pick any lock at level 1 if you're good enough at the minigame and/or have a ton of lockpicks to spare.

Another thing to consider is that someone might be playing a quest mod that makes persuasion more significant. That would be another good reason to have the perk.

>>3891957
I agree.

About speech, there's amulet of dibella that adds 15pts to your speech, and giving beggars a coin gives a temporary buff.

>>3890646
I've learned to never trust the words of anyone who uses terms like "trap perk", "trap skill", "trap talent" and so forth.
They are, ontologically, rarely ever traps because they were not created with the intent to trick the player. They are almost always honest about what they do, and are simply either bad or niche. There is no element of deception involved, so the term trap isn't fitting at all.

>>3888020
>"Please, help us, what did you like about our game? We don't know what we're doing."
At least that means they want to make a game people like. Better that than "You take what we give you, and if you don't like it, fuck off, buy it anyway."

>>3892204
>I've learned to never trust the words of anyone who uses terms like "trap perk", "trap skill", "trap talent" and so forth.
Kek that is very specific, and implies a history of multiple incidents involving people using terms "trap skill"

How about
>don't mind the metafags

>>3881988
>>3881989
>TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT
>Daggerfall players: dang this gameplay is fire yo

>>3893920
>t. faggot who can't picture anything in his mind, let alone an apple.

You can shittalk Skyrim a lot (I do it too) but the fact is there's still no game quite like it, and even without mods I can play it over and over again. With mods there's basically endless fun for a whole lifetime.

>>3893923
If I wanted to read I'd pick up a book. Video games are not books, faggot.

>>3893927
Don't lie to yourself, you can't handle even a dialoge box, let alone 300+ of them back-to-back.

>>3893920
Daggerfall is a shitty game, but the quantity of text in it is completely irrelevant. That's not even a lot of text, what the hell man? 90s games just expected their playerbase to be literate White men with a mean IQ in the triple digits. Sadly, that is now an unrealistic expectation in the modern day.

>>3893929
Why would I bother reading text in a game that's 99% pre-generated, like all the rest of the game? Nothing is hand-placed or hand-written. Everything was proc-genned during development and all the quests and NPCs are just randomly generated on the go. Whoop-de-doo. There's no coherency or intention of the developers. I might as well enjoy myself with one of those AI story generators.

I'm thinking of picking up Skyrim again after about 14 years, but I have no interest in spending a week modding the damn thing.
Can I get away with just shoving in a couple of fan patches (and the one that removes the infamous added bullshit) with the game being playable? I have no interest in graphics or porn mods.

>>3893969
>Why would I bother reading text in a game that's 99% pre-generated, like all the rest of the game? Nothing is [...] hand-written.
All of that text was written by a person. I am moderately incredulous that this needs to be stated.

>>3893972
Yes, you don't NEED any mods. In fact, I think the unofficial patch adds more bullshit than it's worth, if I were to set up another install, I'd probably skip it.

>>3893975
Fully vanilla playthrough it is then, thanks.

>>3893969
>Why would I bother reading text in a game that's 99% pre-generated
To receive information feedback, duh. Normal people with enough literacy don't need to read all the words to gain information conveyed in a second and move on, only illiterates like you need to spend effort paying attention to each word to get what the message conveyed is. Fucks like you are the reason subs will always be superior to dubs - they filter those who never held a book in their life flawlessly.

>>3893975
A real shame it does that. I play the shit out of Morrowind with mods and none of the fan patches pull this sort of thing, if a mod straight up adds something it'll warn you before you download it. I don't get why the biggest Skyrim patch does it.

>>3893982
>if a mod straight up adds something it'll warn you before you download it. I don't get why the biggest Skyrim patch does it.
The guy making it is a retard with a big ego. Many modders are incapable of restraint and staying in their lane, even in what's supposed to be a vanilla patch with simple bug fixes they can't resist altering the game to fit their vision. Sometimes this is just veering out of "objectively a bug" into "subjective and ambiguous, attempting to infer developer intent" territory, and then into "straight making shit up" land.
The last straw for me with the unofficial patch was that he thought some ebony ore somewhere was "unbalanced" so he removed them and added an entirely new mini-dungeon that didn't exist, and shoved it into the wilderness in the southeast area of the map. Just totally arbitrary change.
He also broke with the tradition of "this patch file is for the base game, this patch file is for expansion 1 if you have it, this patch for expansion 2, mix a la carte" and in the anniversary edition or whichever once bundled all the bullshit (((creation club))) mods, he said "those are now official DLC so they're all required dependencies of the patch :)" which was astronomically retarded.

>>3893985
Well, I survived unmodded and unpatched Skyrim on console back in the day, I'm sure I'll enjoy it enough on PC.

>>3893990
I have a small mod list of maybe three dozen mods, half of which are tiny tweaks that I made myself. Some of them are just nice QoL features. I think the only one I'd really feel was NEEDED, personally, is the one that lets you transmute stacks of ore at once, rather than one at a time, and that's only if you plan on doing a lot of smithing and using the transmute ore spell. Just a big time saver.

>>3893978
You should still use SkyUI at least.

>>3894001
Yeah, that too.

>>3893985
Is there perhaps a mod for the unofficial patch that keeps all the actual fixes while removing the bullshit?

>>3894004
A Puristnt's Edited Patch (APEP)
Yes, it's spelt that way. I don't know if it misses anything, but it reverts the most egregious changes.

>>3893973
>>3893981
Every random NPC conversation:
>"Uhmmm.... fuck off, I don't like you"
>"If I liked you more, I might tell you"
>"You're not from here, fuck off"

Every quest giver conversation:
>"Go to X and show him what for"
>"I lost my X, go to Y and get it back for me"
>"Go to X and clear it of the Y that live there"

Wow, so organic and immersive.

>>3893990
Unofficial patch actually cleans up the game well, I recommend using it. I played without and was bothered by quite a few bugs and oversights. Looking at the changelog, it's fixes thousands of things. Mechanics, geography, NPC schedules, descriptions..

If you're really bothered by some specific change it's better to remove it, rather than go without the whole patch.

>>3894021
Forgot to mention the patch should make the game more stable

>>3893990
>>3894021
When people say "unmodded" they usually mean "unmodded except for the unofficial patch obviously". The amount of broken shit in the base game is ridiculous.

>>3894022
>Forgot to mention the patch should make the game more stable
Only crashes I’ve ever gotten on modern PCs playing tes3/4/5 were caused by the unofficial patch, loading in near Riften. Even with all other mods disabled. Some bullshit creation club dependency the patch called for.

>>3894023
>>3893975
>I think the unofficial patch adds more bullshit than it's worth
I figured a reminder about the benefits would be in order. The patch isn't all about Arthmoor (yuck!) or the great ebony mine scandal (eww!!)

I'm using the wildlander mod pack and it's been quite fun so far, the hardcoreness can get annoying sometimes but overall 11/10

https://wildlandermod.com/

OOT is actually a good game on its own merits. Vanilla Skyrim is a barebones RPG that excels at nothing and is mediocre at everything. Modded Skyrim should not be considered the same game when 50% of its DNA at that point is all fan-driven. You have to judge the company by the default product they made and deemed ready to release, not the ones fans fixed. The only thing TES does well is atmosphere, and atmosphere alone cannot carry a game's faults

>>3894018
And you have problems processing THAT and moving on. What an imbecile you are.

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120 KB JPG

>>3868584
I mean, probably, if you're retarded.
Ocarina was groundbreaking because there had never been anything like it at that level and 3D was still new. It's a game whose influence is still felt today.
Skyrim isn't anywhere near that leap in quality compared to Morrowind or Oblivion. It's essentially just a small step up from Oblivion and in some aspects it's worse.

>>3894021
I used the patch, with the other one recommended to remove the bullshit. Thanks for the advice.
Honestly, I forgot how barebones Skyrim is, but holy shit is it comfy all the same.

>>3868584
Skyrim is one of those games that just has entirely boring combat, gameplay, mechanics, etc but manages to capture the feeling of actually being in the world that many rpgs lack. The ones that do capture that same feeling are either highly restricted experiences, a set storyline about a specific character or they're isometric dnd type of thing that doesn't appeal to many people.
I still think it's a bad game that deserves heavy critique, but you can easily understand why people loved it.

>>3894376
>I still think it's a bad game that deserves heavy critique
How many hours do you have in it

>>3894524
I have no way of knowing that, I've played it on multiple platforms for multiple playthroughs over the years. What about you?

>curious, you say the game is bad and yet you still play it?
Yes, I also enjoyed School Girl Zombie Hunter a lot and that is a particularly bad game.

>>3894562
>I also enjoyed School Girl Zombie Hunter a lot
How many hours?

>>3894376
This post is nothing but truth.
Skyrim is the most casual, barely functional excuse for an "RPG" I've ever seen, but my god does it have a sublime atmosphere and every moment of the soundtrack is beautiful. Imagine if we lived in the timeline where Bethesda had the guts to release an RPG with the features of Morrowind or Daggerfall with the atmosphere and music of Skyrim. I'd never stop playing it.

>>3894571
>features of Morrowind or Daggerfall
Be specific, please

>>3894563
I wanna say like 20-30 hours, but it's hard to tell because I spend a lot of time not really playing or progressing in games.

>>3894571
>barely functional excuse for an "RPG" I've ever seen
I think that depends on if you're using the original definition or the one gamers actually use in practice.

>>3894571
anon... you described Morrowind.

>>3894714
If Morrowind is that bad to you I'd dread to know what you think of Skyrim.

File: ScreenShot0.png (3.9 MB, 1920x1080)

3.9 MB PNG

Eh, you know what? This isn't too bad. I still think it's not as good as the previous games but compared to modern releases? This is the shit.

>>3895533
Skyrim taste so good when u ain't got a bitch in ya ear telling you it's nasty

>>3895544
That meme is pretty accurate here. It's one of the weaker TES games, but it's still a TES game and it's fun.

>>3895546
Enjoy

>>3894580
NTA, but
>Classes
>Several skill and magic schools that were removed from Oblivion/Skyrim
>Several weapon types randomly removed from Skyrim
>On the subject of magic, magic being actually powerful and not a novelty. Mages in Morrowind and sort of Oblivion are if anything more viable than warriors after a point.
>Your skills and chosen class actually mattering in your playstyle, you can't be a jack of all trades unless you really put a lot of effort into it.
>Reputation, deeds and ability actually mattering on how you're perceived by a guild/faction. Good luck getting anywhere if you're a melee only dumbfuck in the mages guild. You're certainly not getting to archmage knowing only a fireball spell.
>Disposition being a thing (hell, speechcraft actually mattering)
>Yeah they can be a bit info-kiosky, but NPCs have a shit ton more to say since the dialogue isn't voiced
>More in-depth lore and politics being more than a surface level thing
>Agency/ability to roleplay (good luck telling characters to fuck off when they're giving you quests in Skyrim)

(Comment was too long, so I'll just drop what I think Skyrim does better in another post)

>>3894580
>>3895797

I'm sure there are other points in Morrowind/Daggerfall's favor, but this is just off the top of my head. I just want to say I still really like Skyrim and think it brings a few things to the table that I love, even if it can be annoyingly "theme parkish" at times:
>Smithing is more in-depth and that's cool
>The towns feel more alive, NPCs actually do shit now like go to Inns and they don't just have insane rambling non-conversations about mudcrabs
>Combat feels better, even if I think the hidden dice rolls of Morrowind were better for an RPG
>The music and atmosphere as many have said is the best in the series by far
>Skyrim feels more like a real place, there are a ton of animals and insects everywhere so it gives the impression of an ecosystem
>While they are FAR TOO QUICK TO DO THIS, characters actually react to your feats and talk to each other about "holy shit it's that guy!" when you walk by
>Commit a crime in Whiterun? Only Whiterun gives a shit, no more worldwide manhunt for the N'wah who stole a fork from that Inn near bumfuck nowhere that even high Ordinators in Vivec consider a high priority
>I guess the perks system is okay, even if it feels undercooked

>>3895797
Thank you
>>Several skill and magic schools that were removed from Oblivion/Skyrim
>>magic being actually powerful and not a novelty. Mages in Morrowind and sort of Oblivion are if anything more viable than warriors after a point.
Can you give specifics about these?

>>3894580
Only played Morrowind (kept away from Daggerfall yet by it looking like a medieval version of Doom):
>spears/halberds
>levitation spell
>more armor pieces (aside of base armor, also braces, pauldrons, greaves, plus underclothing)
>medium armor
>different length of swords

On legendary, if actually leveling, falmer opponents get quite tough. The game devolves to letting Barbas soak up infinity damage, and sniping them alongside with Derkeethus, and even than they both get overwhelmed often. I think it may be better to just send them away, and play as stealth archer, trying not to get caught. On the bright side, my character is over level 50, and haven't been inside of a proper town yet, was in Falkreath, Dawnstar, and Morthal already, but those doesn't count, as no proper wall, nor carriage service avaible. Still just cleared about half the avaible dungeons in the game, no fully dwemer areas just yet either. So technically will play most of the game solo, without companions...

>>3896257
>more weapons
>levitation
>fallout 4 style armor pieces
>more armors

>>3896425
If for nothing else, just for spears and levitation, one should try Morrowind, to find out how good the later titles could be, if not for dumbing down the product.

>>3896422
The only thing I remember ever getting a little annoying at the highest extremes of difficulty/leveling is magic doesn't do as much damage as I'd like. I think the last time I played Skyrim like that I just got bored of fighting and started using illusion to just walk past everything with calm
Other than like fighting the ebony warrior basically nothing should kill you quickly if you aren't challenging yourself to ignore certain mechanics

>>3896428
In most cases nothing could kill me on level 50, but in practice, unless I'd have infinity healing potions, I still get offed occasionaly. A falmer warmonger with poisoned weapon was the latest opponent that managed to kill my character, it was aided by a falmer nightprowler with ligning spells, and I was out of healing potions too, with my compagnions kneeling somewhere far away, recovering, or something.

>>3896434
>"Health is only at 50%, I can survive one more hit"
and don't... is way too common...

What mods do you guys recommend to make the game less dull? I never have this problem in Morrowind and Oblivion, but after 8 hours of a Skyrim playthrough I'm finding the world beautiful but it's so lacking otherwise.
I'm using the unofficial patch, The Choice is Yours (so you can turn things down you don't want to do) and hopefully I've installed Dac0da correctly but I won't know until level 15.
I want a vanilla + experience but have no interest in making the characters look like something out of Honey Select.

>>3896476
No mods, no audio (or at least no music), and listening to podcasts, while playing.

>>3896479
>No audio
But the music and atmosphere is one of Skyrim's actual strengths.

>>3896482
Maybe at the first few playthroughs, but it too get tiresome.

>>3896459
The killcam thing is dumb, you will get one shot in an animation even if the attack isn’t enough to kill you. Theres some arbitrary threshold where if an attack reduces you to less than 15% of your max HP, or something like that, the animation fires. I just disable the kill animations entirely.

>>3896492
If you can get oneshot by enemy's power attack, you can get killcammed

>>3868995
Faker's Gate 3 is the most ridiculous cash grab put out in recent memory.

Unrelated to the original series, hideously castrated combat system, off the charts gay.

Out of curiosity, how much work would it take to make a mod that turned every instance of "magicka" into "mana"? I noticed that Enderal did it, and it got me wondering.

>>3896750
Go through descriptions and replace magicka with mana.

>>3896752
So you'd have to do it for every individual thing? No simple find/replace? That must have been tedious. I remember a mod for Oblivion that changed Fatigue to Stamina, and I think it said it could adapt itself on the fly, but I'm not completely sure.

>>3895799
>>While they are FAR TOO QUICK TO DO THIS, characters actually react to your feats and talk to each other about "holy shit it's that guy!" when you walk by
I wish they weren't so quick to idolize you
>Oh my god are you that hero!?
>May the eight smile upon you!
>Hey it's my favourite drinking buddy!
>I LOVE YOU BE MY DAD!
Ahaha, yes, yes, it is I! The drifter who turned up at your town two days ago, gave a coin to a drunk and a beggar and killed a couple of bandits outside of the gates! Please do not crowd me for autographs!

>>3896492
>Theres some arbitrary threshold where if an attack reduces you to less than 15% of your max HP, or something like that, the animation fires.
Yes, I just noticed every time there is a weird death, there is an animation while dying.
>I just disable the kill animations entirely.
How?

>>3896833
Reward/bribe scaling is also retarded. E.g. impoverished villager in some faraway little settlement, asking you a minor fetching task, then rewards you with 1500 gold (late game).

>>3897323
Yeah, that's pretty bad. Also several versions of artifacts that scale with level.

Anyone know a good tutorial for making quest mods?

Playing on Legendary difficulty fucking sucks (at least on high level). Needing to pommel, or shoot arrows at each enemy for over a minute, it would be unbearable without listening to podcast while playing, it's peak timewasting mode. I'll finish this, than one last run, as level 1 legenedary, than I'll probably be done with vanilla Skyrim, and start to mod it, or just drop it finally.

>>3899531
The only thing that annoys me about legendary is that stupid finisher mechanic. You can still make absurdly high damage weapons not that long after starting

>>3882283
>TES 6
Funny guy

Do you guys actually absorb the lore for elder scrolls? Got back into the lore via YouTube and decided to do another Skyrim run but there are so many fucking books that you just get exhausted reading it all and go back to the same old ways of playing

>>3902326
Somewhat, I usually just play while listening to podcasts about irl stuff, but when I'm idle for some reason, e.g. outside noise, I read a book or two, that are nearby. Also best way to learn the basic lore, is to play the two prior games (Morrowind, and Oblivion) at least once each. The ingame books that I have read so far are usually liberal trash fanfic, about girlbosses, and them betraying of their own family/group/race, and also general nihilism, that whatever the protagonist did was useless in the end (good example wolf queen series, bunch of betrayal, and killing, all for nothing in the end). Also these books are very short, reading them takes 2-5 minutes, usually less than 10 pages (which are tiny) per book. You won't miss anything of value by skipping them, but it doesn't take much effort to read them once (though you'll forget most of them anyways)

>>3902326
I did back in the Morrowind era, but in the Skyrim era, if the devs don't care about the lore, then why should I?

>>3902326
Never got into it myself. It seems pretty confusing and nonsensical to me, and none of it is relevant in the actual games anyway.

>>3902326
>Do you guys actually absorb the lore for elder scrolls
Not really. I like the setting but don't care much about the lore. AFAIK a lot of it has been somewhat retconned over time from game to game, so why bother? Moreso looking forwards to the next game. They'll make some endings to the main quests canon, aliebating the gamers who took the other path.

How is one supposed to kill Madanach on Legendary, at high levels (60+)?

>>3902362
>liberal trash fanfic
>wolf queen
>its literally written by one of the creators of the elder scrolls series
Your mind is gone

>>3903868
Those books sucked. Have you read them? Basicly some shitty noble girl get into some arranged marriage, becomes scheming whore, sleeps around, betrays her family, while trying to get her son to become emperor, son gets killed, she becomes a necromancer, kills off some of her relatives, kills off the rest with enchanted "gifts", their entire bloodline ends because of her, the end. That story is cancer. Many of the creators of the series are liberal retards, or outright malicious nation wreckers, trying to spread their mind poison propaganda.

>>3903874
What on earth

>>3903874
If you have a vendetta against Ted Peterson and his writing i really don't understand how you can pretend to care about any lore

>>3903874
what do you get out of tes if stories like this offend you? do you just not pay attention to anything in the games?

>>3903878
>what do you get out of tes if stories like this offend you?
Slay non-nords with melee weapons.
>do you just not pay attention to anything in the games?
I pay attention to the story, I just hate most of it.

>>3903874
So what is the actual problem here? I don't understand. You realize she is seen as a very evil person right? She is literally called unambiguously evil by historians. You read a dramatic account written 400 years after the fact by a breton
I can't understand your objection to this even if I want to connect real world politics

>>3903881
You clearly don't even somewhat care about the lore then so I'm not sure why you pretended in your first post.

>>3903883
If you follow the writer's intention you were supposed to be against arranged marriage, that started Potema's story, that was the moral of the story, and Potema was presented as the protagonist, that you were supposed to root for. Don't create for the sake of it an evil nobility in fiction, for an Empire that were presented as the good guys in the prior two titles. By the time of Skyrim, the Empire looks like a multi-specie shithole, that was never legitimate to begin with, despite it being founded by someone whom the nords worship, thus creating a contradiction.

>>3903885
Maybe we mean something different by care about, I "care about" enough to read some of it, not "care about" as in liking any of it (aside of nords being cool).

>>3903889
What? No. Root for Potema? Brother there's literally a quest to banish her in Skyrim. I don't think you understand the book you read.
If stories like that bother you im just going to tell you right now: don't read the classics, don't read Shakespeare.

>>3903889
Who is pelagius the mad? Do you understand the empire? Do you know the Empire as of the video game Skyrim is not the same one seen in the video games Oblivion and Morrowind

>>3903892
Just because there is a quest (two part) to banish her spirit, doesn't mean that the books are not written in sympathic tone toward her perspective.

>>3903895
Pelagius is Potema's nephew, who was made mad by an enchanted item given by Potema as a "gift".

>>3903897
So what are you trying to say again?
>sympathetic
You mean the in universe author right. Because Ted Peterson wrote another book about her, as a different author, and called her unambiguously evil

>>3903889
>thus creating a contradiction
Whats the contradiction

>>3903889
>Don't create for the sake of it an evil nobility in fiction, for an Empire that were presented as the good guys in the prior two titles.
it goes back to Daggerfall.

>>3903899
Read again, I wrote "sympathic tone" (positive tone, favorable tone). Both the in universe auther, and the real person responsible for actually writing it.

>>3903900
That the Empire of the past was supposed to be cool, and not some shithole lead by scheming, mad rulers. And since Tiber Septim (Talos) was worthy of worship, or even be accepted by the ingame gods, than his descendants supposed to be good too (it's a deliberate writing decision to write that even godlike quality good bloodlines can degrade into being immoral, malicious, and spiteful).

>>3903902
Haven't played Daggerfall, can't get myself to play 90s DOOM II graphics rpg (yet).

>>3903889
>empire looks like a multi-specie shithole, that was never legitimate to begin with
The whole point of the Septim empire is that it was the first to unite the continent

>>3903904
That was a bad thing, they should have slain everyone non-nord, and have entire Tamriel for nords only.

what a retard

>>3903862
Bound sword barely tickles him... and he can do way too high dps... If I'd try to run/heal with magic, other prisoners would join in to help him, so even tougher battle.

>>3903913
Still pretty much the only option is Bound Sword, since Elseweyr Fondue expires even if taken before captured, so can't use anything more magicka demanding, and haven't put any levelling on adding magicka, only health. So trying Bound Sword, and trying to wobble left and right while attacking, hoping to avoid getting killed. Tried familiars, they are useless (basic, and flaming), if trying to separate for healing than either end up drawing more opponents, or having Madanach push me into a corner. Still could try some basic destruction magic, maybe shock, or frost.

>>3903920
The problem is not having maxed out one handed skill (because constantly putting that on legendary, is how I level at this point), and affiliated perks, with those, I think dps would be enough, with this technique.

>>3896492
>I just disable the kill animations entirely.
How? You didn't answered... I bring down Madanach to under one third health, but end up getting caught in the scipted killcam animation...

>>3903920
>>3903925
You're a mentally ill literal retard so it's pointless to reply, but potions to fortify damage, and fortfy health to disable killcams

>>3903926
How exactly would you bring in any potions to Madanach?

Also solved it just now, in a somwhat ungraceful way, but worked, wobble left and right, keep the constant movement up while healing too, that sorted it out, though Madanach's pathing may have just glitched, due to fast paced constant change in direction of movement, he was facing into the wrong direction near the end.

>>3903927
>Also solved it just now, in a somwhat ungraceful way,
Of course, not the first time with you

I don't understand why killing Pathurnax is thought of as such an obviously bad choice. I feel like killing him makes sense.

I need help; I'm trying to play on survival mode but I want to stay at level 1. I've been attempting to turn off survival when I sleep to not be forced to level up, but when I turn it back on, I get the fatigue back? I just need my max MP to use flame atronach and stuff so I need to sleep sometimes... but I don't want to level. Anyone else knwo a work around?

>>3903988
Because he's doing nothing and was instrumental in the downfall of dragons in the first place? And all you get for it being followers (that you had to bring to them anyway) when I preferred to travel alone. I always thought the blades were more interesting as spooks rather than some warrior order anyway.

>>3904577
In Skyrim you don't level up when you sleep. I played multiple level 1 runs, and just sorted out preventing levelling at all by putting every skill to 100 at the start, via consol, and than you can literally cannot level.

>>3904644
Sorry but I don't get it. He feels homicidal urge and anger every second of every day that he has to actively suppress. You can't judge him in human morality or logic. We have zero concept of an immortal mind. That can't be said enough. Think about what happens to someone's mind from age 20 to age 70. This is infinitely more than that. Its so totally alien and inconceivable to how our minds work that going "oh yeah that guy who fought together with Alduin the world eater to massacre us and then switched sides and helped extinguish his own race and Alduin is just going to be good forever. " that's insane to me. His mind is a wreck as it is. He's basically revolved his entire immortal life around killing one thing or another. Honestly he should just allow himself to be killed and go without a fight. I know I'd want to. But I'm human. And that's the rub. We're also the last dragon born. This is the last anyone will ever have. I'm not sure if this game allows you to go kill every dragon because the fights are all horrible and I don't know if they just spawn forever
To me, you don't redeem yourself by turning around and helping to murder the other side.
His alien nature, capacity for murder, and impervious trait without a dragonborn is just too much.

>>3904644
Optionally rebuilding the blades is a weird choice, since you usually play a nord, who is siding with the stormcloaks, so who'd you put into an order, that is aligned to the empire (or at least formerly were), also you know that they will scriptedly get butthurt about you not killing Paarthurnax.

If you put good people there, you ruin their lives, by sending them to an isolated place, make them hunted by the thalmor, and make them possibly a snack for dragons, and also souring your relationship with them, but if you put shitty people there, you give them access to secret knowledge, give them some credentials, and give them a hideout, and decent weapons, and help them build up a spy network, plus they may ruin your good name via association, despite your relationship already soured.

>>3904644
>Because he's doing nothing and was instrumental in the downfall of dragons in the first place?
He tried a power grab and had to retreat to a mountain to wait for another opportunity. An opportunity which the return of dragons and Alduin's death at the hands of a dragonborn grants.

How could you be so naive?

>>3904657
Just because the Stormcloaks are currently at war with the Empire doesn't mean every nord has to hate everything imperial forever. This is just an independence war. It's about as impersonal war can get, and it ends the second the Empire acknowledges the loss of the province. There is also a looming threat in the background. Its not unfeasible that Free Skyrim would fight with the Empire against thalmor. Every nation already has spies in every other nation that's just politics. The blades at least have a good history of killing dragons and generally saving the continent. Also the thalmor would be kicked out of skyrim and have no real way of fighting that if there is no Empire in Skyrim anymore. Blade presence would be instrumental in repairing relations.

>>3904655
You spare Paarthurnax to give dragons an out, and to keep them in doubt, that there is an other option than to be murder machines against all humanoids, so they would not have that extra determination, even if they are hostile. Also he doesn't seem much of a threat, with torn wings, full of holes. If he'd turn hostile later, you can kill him later, just let him be before that anyways. Blades can kill him at any time, be considered zealots, instead of the champion of humanity, that the dragonborn is. Also the dragonborn could lead dragons to be potential allies for Skyrim, against the other races.

Also how is the dragonborn the "last"? Will there be no new ones, or he was the "latest"? E.g. phrase like last jarl, last ambassador, last leader.

>>3904670
Meant "previous", not "latest".

>>3904670
Only Dragonborn can permanently kill dragons.
We are explicitly the last as stated by prophecy.
I don't think you realize the intense bloodlust dragons have for humans its described almost more like a biological compulsion.
The dragonborn isn't going to convince and lead other dragons (ignoring the gameplay flaw of them all bring wild animals who kill for no reason) and if he did it won't last given a time frame of *eternity*

>>3904666
No, the Empire have been tainted forever, and the line of nordic succession have been broken. The Empire was a flawed idea to begin with, thinking races could live together on shared territory, and Talos should have just expanded the territories of Skyrim, and have Skyrim be only for the nords.

>>3904678
Hey this isn't a role play thread

>>3868584
Replaying the game makes you realize how shit and overrated it was in the first place. The fact it was hailed as 10/10 game must have been a mass psychosis. It's 7.5/10 and that's being generous. Copy and paste dungeons. No story. Boring quests. Ugly and non-sensical environments. Braindead and boring NPCs. Grinding leveling system. Loading screens every 5 seconds.

>>3904677
The prophecy was about the last dragonborn killing Alduin, not about the dragonborn exterminating all dragons. Akatosh created them for a reason. Kind of weird lore universe, when gods actually exist but they let all sort of evil happen within Tamriel. E.g what did the gods had against those nord heroes, whom they let Alduin eat? They lived their life well enough to earn a place in the nice afterlife retirement realm, then Alduin was let in, as if the gods changed their mind, and cancelled their stay. Apparently there is determinism in the game universe, as prophecies are actually made, and fullfilled (though, they are vague enough, that "gods" could have just made an educated guess, and offered that prediction of what will happen, as a prophecy).

>>3868594
>For others it was an improved TES game.

It's the first tes game I disliked the more I played. Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, you can always appreciate the enthusiasm that went into them even though all of them had plenty of problems. In Skyrim, you start noticing how lazy and unambitious they were with it.

It's still not total crap like Starfield, but it crossed some kinda threshold for me. Morrowind > Oblivion > Daggerfall > Skyrim > Arena (would probably be better if it got the DF:U treatment)

>>3904687
What is your point? I didn't say the word prophecy to say anything about that.

>>3904689
>you start noticing how lazy and unambitious they were with it
Just experienced a weird mechanics of the game about stealth. Was doing some stealth archer fuckery, and had Derkeetus as a follower, and he too crouches, and tries to stay in stealth mode, also he usually avoid aggroing while not detected. I shot into a bandit, it come closer, close enough to actually push my character, still haven't detected me, nor Derkeetus. Then I just waited until the bandit walked away, into a distance, before shooting him again, and I still wasn't detected, but when he come close, either Derkeethus was, or he started aggroing, and then I got detected, without moving, or firing at all, at the same position where I wasn't detected prior, even when I got bumped into, and pushed directly. So how does stealth work? Is it a shared pool between the player character, and the follower, or just follower's action somehow lights up the player randomly?

>>3904692
The point is if you believe the prophecy, about being the last dragonborn, that doesn't necessarily come with an obligation to exterminate all dragons, because that wasn't the part of the prophecy, and if you don't believe the prophecy to be true, than you don't need to assume that your character is the actual last dragonborn, and that there never will be an other, and it would be the actual last chance of humanity to be truly rid of dragons, thus a real necessity to act. If you take it as an obligation to go full exto on dragons, than you selectively accept the prophecy, accept the part of your character being the last dragonborn, but don't accept the part about only needing to kill Alduin.

Skyrim really is a flawed masterpiece.

>>3904704
I don't follow your logic at all. I never said that. You're focusing way too much on prophecy. I never referenced it in that way. I have no interest in debating prophecy or its wording. It's irrelevant to what I said. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone that killing parthurnax is the correct choice but merely that there is more argument than none at all.