>>3871708
You're supposed to get knocked out by Quistus. It's part of the dommy-mommy sidequest.

>>3871708

Getting K.O at least once is necessary though. Personally i let both Zell and Squall sleep during the Assault on Dollet so that they don´t gain EXP while i train the summons and get their important skills. The only other chance to do that is when you temporary get Edea

Breaking the game is not hard but it does take time and work to do it right.

>>3871726
Waste of time, more fun to just go through it straight

>>3871726
>Getting K.O at least once is necessary though
>Breaking the game is not hard
Dude, you're basically saying "breaking the game is necessary". It's not, it just allows more cheap strats that make the game easier but less satisfying. Beating the game with no deaths is a much better achievement and I'm sure Square was aware of that too which is why they have these NPCs that record our deaths so if anyone wants to abuse critical HP and deaths, they'll always get reminders of their failures. Also, doesn't the Dollet mission affect our Seed rank?

>>3871726
>>3871745
I've never understood the people who insist you need to avoid leveling up because FF8 isn't even that difficult, especially later when you get auto-haste from Cerberus.

>>3872119
I beat the game first time leveling everyone to max and actively using GFs in combat, without even real use of Aura, just a bit of meltdown

>>3872119
>>3872128
I think the point is that leveling up in FF8 is just a waste of time. Enemy levels scale with yours anyway so it makes no difference. Real progression comes from farming magic, proper junctioning and learning the right GF abilities.

>>3872138
So what's the point in these "no level up" shenanigans

>>3872138
It certainly makes a difference, even when it's not massive. Some enemies only drop certain items or offer certain spells at specific level intervals. Yes, refining via GF abilities is possible, but not for everything and only to a limited extent.
I replayed FF8 a year ago or so and I do remember these snake enemies that you fight around Dollet dropping a specific item for Xells final weapons upgrade, that you can only grind from them.
Also, the enemy scaling isn't that massive past these intervals. High level characters are outright stronger than the enemy that are scaled to them.

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>>3872144
>what's the point in these "no level up" shenanigans
Some people extract joy from being able to steamroll the entire game while having the lowest possible level as if it's some sort of accomplishment. And in other games, it is—FF5 low-level runs are legitimately impressive feats that require a lot of strategy and planning to avoid EXP while making the most of abilities, equipment, and enemy weaknesses.

But in FF8, you're basically just grinding your stats independently of your level, so it's far less interesting or impressive. Some folks are addicted to min-maxing, and having maxed stats at level 1 really tickles them into feeling like they've accomplished something clever.

>>3872138
>leveling up in FF8 is just a waste of time
Really it's something that happens naturally if you play the game normally. During my playthrough, I found the best way to get spells was to just fight encounters and refine the drops/steals. Besides, fighting stuff is the most straightforward way to level your GFs to unlock abilities, which is kind of important.

I still wound up with Squall being at level 100 by the end, though, because I needed to farm drops for ultimate weapons from enemies in Esthar after the Lunar Cry, and the fights were leveling me like crazy. Maybe there was a better place to farm, but I didn't really feel like looking up a guide. Getting to level 100 in the late game doesn't really change much, anyway, as long as your junctions are strong.

>>3872220
I didn't look it up, but late-game I farmed that Elnoyle guy (the dude that somehow transforms into a monster when you speak to him). Grinding everyone to level 100 and getting energy crystals and moonstones in the process. Was done after just an hour, maybe not even. Refining these to spells was ultimately more important than the raw level ups.

>>3872221
>late-game I farmed that Elnoyle guy (the dude that somehow transforms into a monster when you speak to him). Grinding everyone to level 100 and getting energy crystals and moonstones in the process.
Yeah, this is exactly what I did. I knew some people considered it to be "taboo" to level up, so I was getting worried that I was gaining a level almost every other battle, but it turned out not to matter at all. There was probably a way to get those same items without level grinding by playing Triple Triad or something, but fuck that noise.

>>3872233
People that argue that leveling up in this game is some grave sin just repeat nonsense they heard others say on the internet.

>>3871726
I've done this and it is substantially more effort than just playing the game ignoring that levels make enemies stronger. There is way more bullshit involved in carding/breaking enemies and gimping yourself on GF abilities and ease of magic drawing the entire game.
Fuck retroachievements for not letting GFs gain levels either though.

>>3871861
Rank is pointless. Killing enemies makes it go up (not just during the test). You can take the written tests 1 per level and you get 1000 gil per rank every time it pays you; so as soon as it starts you can be getting 10,000 without killing or doing anything. There really isn't much to spend it on until the end where you can refine things for profit anyway.
I'm not sure dying even has any effect on it. Escaping the entire game might make it drop twice.

>>3872235
People warn against *grinding* because it's typically something players do early in a JRPG to get stronger, and that's precisely when it has the most capacity to fuck you over in FF8, especially since the game doesn't ouright warn you about enemy level scaling. But yeah, retards perceive that as "ALL LEVELING BAD!" and love to fearmonger to new players that every level gained is only digging a deeper grave or some shit like that, which just isn't true.

>>3872249
I never really understood why people thought it was cool/fun/impressive to "break" FF8, because you can become OP without any of that hoop-jumping BS before you even head to Timber:
>step 1: buy tents to refine into curagas and junction to HP
>step 2: farm fish fins to refine into waters and junction to STR
congrats, you're invincible and unstoppable until disc 3. Especially if you replace your waters with Tornadoes/Quakes once you can get the appropriate drops/steals to refine in the Galbadia area.

Honestly, refining drops/steals was the most effective way I found to get stronger. I hardly ever relied on drawing, and certainly never touched Triple Triad. The only downside is that enemies can't drop if you've already mugged them, and that "rare item" ability on Bahamut also locks out certain drops, so you can fuck yourself over without realizing. Ultimately, FF8 isn't hard—it's just really stupidly designed.

>>3871708
I did, but the game crashed right when ultimecia was doing her death throw dance. I didn't feel like replaying the entire ending sequence so I never did. I don't know what happens after and I haven't been able to power through the game a second time

I wish the game was more clear on how the refining stuff worked because I assumed you need rare/specific shit so I never bothered getting those skills

>>3875380
>I wish the game was more clear on how the refining stuff worked
As I recall, the game doesn't tell you anything about refining. It over-explains the junction system itself to the point that it gets needlessly convoluted, but it never says, "Oh yeah, by the way, the best way to get great spells quickly and in large volume is to refine them from items!"

Honestly, part of me thinks that was intentional. So much of the game is designed around slowing the player down because they were desperate to fill time and discs. It's pretty clear the biggest objective the team had during development was to make the game fit on more discs than FF7 so they could advertise it as such.

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>>3871708
More like "you got Instructor Trepe got knocked-UP 5 time(s)."

>>3876486
>"Oh yeah, by the way, the best way to get great spells quickly and in large volume is to refine them from items!"

agreed. The game makes it seem like Drawing is the best way and apparently that is the worst way

>>3876486
>So much of the game is designed around slowing the player down because they were desperate to fill time and discs. It's pretty clear the biggest objective the team had during development was to make the game fit on more discs than FF7 so they could advertise it as such.
It was actually the complete opposite, FF8 is probably the most content-cut FF title of the series.

>>3876594
>FF8 is probably the most content-cut FF title of the series.

even more than 15?

>>3871861

The challenge is on doing everything else perfectly. For example, there is sweet spot for when to face the metal spider (you have to avoid it until the bridge otherwise you´ll lose points for escaping it or may be forced into fighting regular soldiers that you won´t be able to card or break and level up. You have to face it at the bridge and actually wreck it beyond repair), there is also a sweet spot for remaining time. The closer to the deadline the better the score, you have to cut it between 30 and 15 seconds remaining.

Also, all enemies at Ultimecia´s castle are maxed out so the whole point of not leveling up is fighting Omega (that´s lvl 100) at lvl 7 or 8.

>>3872249

Yes, it is more effort, that´s the point. You can even take it further and stay lvl 7/8 until you get Eden and then exclusively use devour to rise all base stats and THEN level up to lvl 100 but that´s kind of pointless since you won´t exceed 9999 dmg anyways and can beat Omega at lvl 7/8. Still, some people do like to min max.

>did not figure out Card Queen's quest shenanigans without a guide
You did not beat the game

>>3876619
>Card Queen
..Who?

>>3876617
>Also, all enemies at Ultimecia´s castle are maxed out so the whole point of not leveling up is fighting Omega (that´s lvl 100) at lvl 7 or 8.
Only on the PSX release. They removed the minimum level caps on the PC version, which means you can fight a level 7 Omega if you do a zero-xp run.

>>3876678

For real? That blows...

>>3876696
The minimum level cap was set to 1 for all enemies and it's one of the big reasons the PC version sucks. You could still comfortably complete the PSX version on something like level 30 but there were a few enemies which acted like gatekeepers if you were actively avoiding all combat.

There's still fixed level 5 enemies for the fire cavern and level 100 enemies for the islands closet to heaven/hell, but I suspect this is more a bug/oversight because the enemies levels are set by the zone you're in as opposed to your parties level.

>>3871708
people who complain about not being able to figure out the junction system are fucking retarded.

Can you equip weapons and armor in other RPGs? Then you can equip GFs and magic in this one.

>>3876730
The issue with the Junction system was always getting the spells to junction, not how to junction.

Idiots like you make it seem like people didn't know how to equip GFs and abilities despite the tutorials

>>3876732

oh no selecting the draw command in battle is so hard!

>>3871726
lmao you making it away more hard than it need. By the end of disk 1 i'm already a demigod.

>>3871708
Very funny pic related oh glorious OP. I think I shall save the SeeD data on your behalf

>>3876594
Both statements are true. FF8 suffered from a lot of cut content, and the objective of the development team became wasting the players' time to draw the game out across four discs to make up for that.

>>3876901
>to draw the game out

by drawing spells

>>3876914
pottery

>>3876901
D-Prison is literally a filler arc and the lowest point of the game, jammed into the disc using minimal resources where almost everybody is written to act off character, slotted in to occur right after one of the game's peaks so momentum carries the player through the filler arc slog, then made irrelevant and forgotten about for the rest of the game.

FF8 is the best of the series don't get me wrong, but the blemishes left by rushed development are really obvious.

>>3880576
>where almost everybody is written to act off character

like Squall when the shitty romance kicks in

>>3880576
>FF8 is the best of the series
I’m not even an 8 hater but this is just silly, anon.

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>>3880576
Seifer being a theatrical chuuni was really fun though.

>he didn't get everyone but Irvines ultimate weapon before the SeeD exam

>>3871708
you need to be knocked out 69 or 420 times to win.

>>3880576
>slotted in to occur right after one of the game's peaks so momentum carries the player through the filler arc slog
This was funny because this was exactly why I quit the game my first playthrough. I already wasn't having fun for most of the first disc, and I thought the finale of disc 1 was an improvement, but the fact that things got so much immediately and unbearably worse at the start of disc 2 was phenomenally discouraging.

I did go back years later and finish the whole game, and I have a better opinion of it than I used to, but goddamn, I absolutely see why I dropped it where I did. And I was probably right to. The game really just sucks out loud until you get to Fisherman's Horizon. Then it just sucks softer.

>>3880601
Seifer wanted to become a sorceress' knight ever since he was a child and saw Laguna's movie with the dragon that you help film in one of the weird dream flashbacks. There is a terminal somewhere in Balamb Garden that mentions Seifer rented the movie some time ago and it's now very overdue. He also holds his sword and swings it the same way Laguna did in the movie. Seifer models himself after fictional characters from movies so it makes sense that he would act that way. It's also why he's so eager to work for a sorceress.

>>3880846
>There is a terminal somewhere in Balamb Garden that mentions Seifer rented the movie some time ago and it's now very overdue.
I thought it was a book he had checked out from the library. I remember reading that from the computer terminal in Balamb. Nothing about a movie, though.

Ultimately it's pointless because Seifer is a nothing character and his "arc" goes nowhere, just like the majority of the cast.

>>3880860
You're right, it was a book about Sorceress' Knights. It was confirmed in one of the weird crossover fighting games where Seifer spergs out when meeting Laguna and tells him he's a huge fan of his movie.

>>3880860
Seifer has a fantastic arc and his laughter in the ending, expelled from Garden, forgiven, with his friends, and allowed to live without fighting is brilliant. He had to grow out of his childhood just like Squall, and at the start, in another JRPG, he would have been the romantic-dream fueled protagonist of the game. His contrast with Squall in the Dollet mission sets them up perfectly, and his capture by Ultimecia's influence in his attempt to literally save Squall functions as the tragic death of a hero, which is a chilling setup.

We need a chapter where we play as Seifer in his post-Ultimecia spell yet-still-loyal moment when he brings the Lunatic Pandora up from the ocean floor.

>>3872144
It's just a different way to play the game, I guess. And FF8 is built around allowing this pretty much. It's a very easy game to do a level 1 in.
But, people replay games, and when they do they like to inflict little challenges on themselves.

>>3872119
People like min maxxing in RPGs and FF8 has a fairly unique way of doing it.

I did the opposite I got to lvl 99 almost immediately. Using death on the t-rex as taught, indeed it was a trifling matter. I dunno I've min-maxed her but I thought it was fun to play vs severely tanky enemies and use as many mechanics as I can to beat them.

>>3882668
>I did the opposite I got to lvl 99 almost immediately

you fucked up

What's a fun FF8 challenge run?

>>3883052
>challenge run?
To play normally and just enjoy the game

>>3883055
It's not that hard to understand junctioning. Only annoying part is farming the good ones

>>3883062
>annoying
Challenge failed

You prople couldn't enjoy a thing to save the lives of your families

>>3883055
>To play normally and just enjoy the game
Indeed. That is extremely challenging with how shitty the gameplay, story, and overall pacing is.

>>3883052
its not fun, but >>3882668
i tried something like that as a kid once, after learning how FF8s bizarre lvl scaling worked
>use cheese to over lvl immediately
>enemies become exponentially stronger
>everything has like a bazillion HP
i remember stopping somewhere around the ayyy tho, so not that far. dont remember why. i only remember that it sucked.

so not fun. definitely a challenge tho.

>>3880846
>>3881031
he's literally me