The Final Fantasy series is synonymous with the jrpg genre. The 16th mainline entry has been critiqued as very similar to Devil May Cry and not much of an "RPG" more of an action game. What defines an rpg video game exactly? If it is just leveling up, casting spells, and getting armor and items a lot of other games do that but don't consider themselves rpgs?
>>3872990Let's say you finish this game and you want something similar now to scratch the same itch. You go somewhere where RPG fans gather and ask for similar games. Then you go to a place where Devil May Cry style action game fans gather and ask for similar games. Which do you think is gonna be more helpful?
I've never seen anyone outside of 4chan shitposters compare final fantasy to DMC. The joke is that /v/ doesn't actually play video games and hasn't been paying attention to the FF series for the last 10 years. It's not that different from FF7 remake combat. Stranger of Paradise. FF15. Lightning Returns. Crisis Core. Even Dirge of Cerberus back on the PS2.
>>3873012It's far closer to DMC than it is any other action FF.You'd have to be incredibly disingenuous to not see it.
>>3873023You know, people have posted the final boss of DMC here, and nobody even knew what game it was from. That, among other litmus tests expose these opinions as fake.
>>3873026A couple of retards doesn't invalidate a legitimate comparison but nice try at poisoning the well.
>>3873012>>3873026Clive's moveset is literally, LITERALLY, Nero's moveset from DMCV.
>>3873027I think you mean the same conventional movement for any sword-swinging character in any modern game. Oh. Stupid me. I forgot Dissidia! How many are they up to now? Why am I asking you?
>>3872990it's great and turn-based is over. people need to let it go
>>3873062Bait.
>>3872990No, I actually liked it but it's pretty much a pure action game. There's little character building or difference in how you approach problems beyond just the combat abilities you select.
>>3872990>Accept the truthAbsolute kino
>>3873051>conventional movement in any modern game>talking about a game with air combosretard doesnt know we're in the souls-slop era
>>3872990Yes, it's a RPG.it's a fucking Final Fantasy game
Final Fantasy XVI is an INSULT to RPG Fans, and I DIG IT! Hell has frozen over. Today I am talking about a Final Fantasy game on the channel, FF16, which has made a very interesting decision to swap out its usual semi-turn based party combat, into a single character real time Devil May Cry / Bayonetta style combat system. Naturally, being a big fan of character action games and discussing combat systems generally, I felt compelled to try this game and and share my thoughts The only reviewer that matters said that https://youtu.be/RfR3641NCSg?si=q3Qd4J5-mWpSFnGl
>>3873012>It's not that different to these other games that are not RPGs.
>>3873467Again. Out of touch, wannabe influencers, spinning old news as something "new". Seriously. What was the last Final Fantasy game that had turn based combat? What year do they think it is? That's not to say people don't want it. There's been some talk about FF17 entertaining the idea of going back to the pixel look.
>>3872990>take skyrim/ff12>reskin in *tasteful* anime style/world>main character doesnt look/sound like an effeminate faggot>party system thats not retarded>can solo or have party members (and many diverse members to choose from)>DO NOT USE annoying voices>some large scale battles >some extremely tough/huge bosses>can build a house, get married/have a harem>can change outfits of wives/girls/etc>armor/weapon change is represented by character model>tons of dungeons - and dungeons that make SENSE>can captain a ship, airship, fly on griffons, dragons, etc. Can drive wagons, ride horses>top teir music, especially for world map and menusThats all I got for now. Someone get to it.
>>3873991>skyrim/ff12These two are nothing alike, you can't just put them together like that as if they are with zero elaboration
>>3873991Give me monies and I'll do itWith PS2 style graphics
>>3872990Rpg is the name of a genre. A genre is a group of games. For effective communication, you should be asking if this game is similar enough to these other games to justify it's inclusion under that collective noun we call RPG.The answer is yes. But, by phrasing the question as "is it an rpg?". You are misleading people into interpreting "RPG" and other genres as classifications rather than categories. It's the difference between "people" and "persons". Are you "a" person? Yes.Are you people? No? What kind of question is that? You can sort people into all kinds of categories: Left or Right handed. Age. Sex. Nationality. Ethnicity. Primary Language. The only requirement for distinguishing them is for those other people to exist in the first place. Otherwise your collective noun isn't a collective at all.
>>3873464>Yes, it's a RPG.In what way?
>>3874011>you should be asking if this game is similar enough to these other games to justify it's inclusion under that collective noun we call RPG.>The answer is yes.The answer is no.
>>3872990Ok, again from the top. Roleplaying implies the character, not the player, is at the core of the experience. The player builds the character but what the character can or can not do should depend exclusively of that build. If you can circumvent the build through player skill then it´s not an RPG.Similarly if you build a character background (or are given a background) and you, the player, can use external knowledge to circumvent what the character would do without consequences, then it´s not an RPG either. Builds and backgrounds are fundamental to bound a character to the world. If they are just useless numbers it´s not an RPG. So no, XVI is not an RPG, there is not even weaknesses and strengths like elemental damage, the player can tailor it´s play style to be whatever and circumvent pretty much all numbers through player skill. Soul likes are not RPGs either.
>>3874032>XVI is not an RPG, there is not even weaknesses and strengths like elemental damageThere's no extra damage when using red attack against blue enemy? Preposterous!
I don't know if it's an RPG but it was a shitty game.
>>3872990It's less of an RPG than Assassin's Creed.Let that sink in.
>>3872990I'll take action slop over ATB slop any day. 7 and 8 were enough. I could take another game with CTB though.
>>3874114It's also less of an RPG than Shadow of Mordor 1 & 2It's also FAR less of an RPG than Trials of Mana.It's also less of an RPG than Diablo 4>>3874032Even in Elden Ring you have different playstyles and therefore some RP from a lot of diversity in gear and loadouts and spells you have to earn. FFXVI only has a few cosmetics and only swords that are always an upgrade so you just keep using the latest one they handed you. You're right in general though, builds are fundamental to ER, Diablo 4, Trials of Mana, and Shadow of Mordor (esp if you factor in your orc army build) Builds don't matter in FF XVI as you quickly run into enough build points where you have everything anyway.Backgrounds are hit or miss, Geralt has a pre-made background, so does the guy in Mordor. Trials you have a selection of characters to play with individual background and that choice matters to influence the entire rest of the story, which is a lot more interactivity than many linear JRPGs have.It's builds and gear that combine enough to give the MC enough personalization to enable "RP" to me, so I'm pretty lenient with the label itself. But to have an actual good RPG you need:Role Personalization through builds and gear and anything related to gameplay like armies and fortresses.Role Personalization through background/story choice.FF XVI is like 10 percent RPG and 90 percent action game. It's not a bad action game, pretty good one in fact, but it's a terrible RPG. It'd be better if we just used percentages going forward and stopped eternal wastes of threads arguing about binary definitions.
What makes a JRPG an RPG? They don't seem like RPGs, the early FF games seem like RPGs. Also what are the most RPG like Final Fantasy games besides the MMO ones?
>>3872990>Final Fantasy invented as last ditch effort because Ultima is failing>Ultima failing because they keep doing the same thing>Final Fantasy succeeds>Squaresoft learns from this and keeps trying different things with varying success>36 years later, 16 is a great but not perfect FF with a fun battle system, FF7 Remake and SoP have really fun battle systems>all the fans are like "this isn't an RPG! it's not turn-based! Why don't you do the same shit as when I was a child!? It sucks that you're doing something different!"We're never gonna get anything good again because everyone just wants nostalgia dogshit
On one hand, it's understandable that /vrpg/ cares about Final Fantasy being an RPG or not. On the other hand, the board also has cyoa threads that don't have anything to do with video games and belong in /tg/. Plus all the indie games from horror to visual novels that aren't RPGs either, but they're made with an engine that has "RPG" in the name.
>>3877024how can they care about a game being an RPG if they don't even know what an RPG is?
>>3872990It doesn’t have any rpg elements such as the things you listed.
>>3873012>its not that different from ff7 remakePlease shut the fuck up. It is very different.Ff7 remake has elemental weaknesses, buffs, debuffs, different party members, actual skill trees.
>>3872990>party members>characters dedicated to a specified “role” like: healer, caster, buffer, debuffer, jack of all trades, melee attacker, tank, etc>no elemental weaknesses>no debuffs>no buffs>no actual healing, and I mean the group based kind that you have to manage>no synergizing between party members>no party members>can only control one character>no pet dynamics>rotation based combat instead of using things that fit the situation>dodge the shit on the groundI can keep on going but the game doesnt really have the very basic systems that constitute it as an rpg. To be honest, it should have had party members to begin with if you even want it to be an “rpg” things like no elemental weaknesses you can give a pass too even if it makes the combat more barebones.I wouldn’t really compare it to FF7 remake or stranger of paradise which has all the things I mentioned.It being action oriented is not why its not considered an rpg, theres plenty of arpgs out there with actual rpg mechanics
>>3877392It's a single character RPG, everything logically stems from that.Playing Vagrant Story I noticed how pointless it is to dump all roles on one character at once in real time.
>>3877389>Pressing R1 to switch Party members >Pressing R1 to switch Eikon abilitiesThey're mechanically the same thing. We could call Clive a "Blue Mage" if you like. Or call his Eikonic feats "junctioning". His semi-primed forms are literally a synergy with another character. The only distinction is that you don't actually get to play as, say, Shiva. >Weak to Air Attributes>Weak to Aerials AttacksVirtually the same thing. Most RPGs treat "Melee" and "Ranged" as attributes that some enemies are more susceptible to than others. You use Garuda's abilities to drawing in smaller enemies, or stagger larger ones. As well as cut down the stamina bar. It's fair if you want to see enemies with stamina bars as a different class, rather than an "buff". But Goblin and Human enemies also cast barriers. The use cast for Phoenix and Ifrit's barrier is limited to the Eikon battles. Consider what a waste of time that would be against regular enemies. >Activating Limitbreak doubles as Regen. >Shiva's feats "freeze" enemies in their tracks.>Ramuh's feats add damage multipliers. Oh look, more buffs and debuffs limited to an area of effect and time. Maybe play strategically instead of zooming all over the place. >Torgal is a "Pet" not a "Party member"Now you're just being a contrarian. Or maybe, you've never actually played the game.
>>3877406Single character rpg that doesn’t have any rpg elements. Also I wouldn’t say single character rpgs exist unless you consider late zelda entries or platformer collectathons with skill trees rpgs>>3877428>They're mechanically the same thing.No it isn’t. Position matters, this exact mentality is what bred the dps brainrot that ruined mmorgps as a genre.None of the things you mentioned are buffs or debuffs because they are all empowering a single character and its just another aspect of rotationslop. The party component is important because its how you apply the synergy component, nevermind the fact that boss should have patterns you react to and adapt to not endless combo strings, there is a reason this game gets compared to dmc.You fundamentally do not understand what pet gameplay is either, play an rpg with a pet class sometime though I think it would filter the ever living shit out of you.
>>3877446>Also I wouldn’t say single character rpgs existDragon Quest 1 isn't an RPG?
>>3877446>Also I wouldn’t say single character rpgs exist unless you consider late zelda entries or platformer collectathons with skill trees rpgsAre you sure about that?
>>3877448Depends on how you look at it I suppose but I didn’t really enjoy Vagrant story for example even if it had rpg-like progression because it feels like you’re just playing a dps character. Theres no supportive elements or things like a tank if you are only playing a single character.If I use Pokemon as an example in that one you at least have the ability to switch out but I think the best pokemon games are colosseum and XD for a reason even if I still like singles in a competitive format.If I take FFXVI as an example, I wouldn’t really say it has any rpg elements at all, single character stuff aside, compared to say FF7 remake which has four characters that all play very differently, a very robust and customizable ability and magic system with all sorts of effects, elemental weaknesses, etc.Even if we compare it to a game like Tales of Vesperia where the ai controls your party members most of the time that game gives you the option to play a melee character, a caster character, a healer/buffer character, a flex healer and ranged attacker, a flex healer and melee attacker, a jack of all trades with rng elements, a jack of all trades, etc the game gets even better if you play it co-op and eliminate the AI party member component and even then you can switch characters on the fly to have them do specific things, just like in FF7 remake.Theres also really the reactionary component to consider, action games with parry mechanics can hardly be considered rpgs because its more about execution than reacting to something. If you take Sekiro for example, that game is pure parry mechanics but it felt more like I was just abusing muscle memory more than anything, I learned the bosses pattern and execute a rotation perfectly I don’t really react to anything cause theres hardly any rng.Pic related is another game I wouldn’t consider an rpg at all. An rpg gives you lots of options, forces you to use them and also has some rng involved.
>>3877454Wouldst thoust consider Fallout a single character RPG?
>>3877464Never played it. So sorry I can’t really give an opinion on it. Never had any interest in bethesda rpgs.
>>3877468I don't think that anon was even talking about modern Bethesda shit, but about actual Fallout 1 and 2. More importantly, thinking RPGs need teams is bizarre to me when the genre in the west started with Akalabeth and Ultima, which are single character RPGs. And in the east it was Dragon Quest as I said before, which is an Ultima clone and also single character. You'd have to argue the genre creators aren't part of the genre.
>>3877471Well I did say it depends on how you look at it. Maybe I should detract my statement but I do think only controlling a single character makes it a lot more barebones and expanding it to controlling a team just seems like the natural upgrade.Moreover, rpgs are based of tabletop rpgs like dnd and those have always been team based or at least thats how you get maximum enjoyment out of it.Regardless, I wouldn’t really say FFXVI has anything that makes any of the single character games you mentioned into rpgs.
>>3877472A barebones RPG is still an RPG but>Regardless, I wouldn’t really say FFXVI has anything that makes any of the single character games you mentioned into rpgs.that I agree with
>>3877468So out of curiosity.. have you played Fallout 1?
>>3877475Try reading.
>>3877477I see. It's just surprising someone would try to define the genre while being unaware of the greats.
>>3877446Party Position is irrelevant to synergy attacks in FF7 Rebirth. Because the system warps the character to your position as if they were the same person. There's only a few enemy situations with charge attacks, where you'd exploit this to move someone out of danger. But otherwise you're turning 2 characters into 1 target. Besides the fact that the timing and precision required makes it inherently an Action mechanic. You know, if you answered "What is a video game genre?" first, then the distinctions of what an RPG is, is made clear.
>>3877487Its like you don’t fucking get it at all despite saying exactly in your post why position matters.
>>3872990zelda is an rpg, ff16 is not.
>>3877495I think you forgot the question.
>>3876746all true except FF7 Remake is a part of that nostalgia
>>3877637No you just have zero reading comprehension. Like thinking pet gameplay means theres a fucking dog in the story.
>>3878123You forgot the question.
>>3878124You still have no reading comprehension
>>3872990Yes, this game is an "rpg"
>>3872990It would be far better without the worthless, tacked on RPG aspects it clearly didn't give a shit about very much. Virtually everything about this game except its combat is shit. Characters, story, equipment system, loot and exploration, all of it.The combat itself isn't bad but it's like you're restricted to only playing Milla from Tales of Xillia and all her skills are put on cooldown.It's just a straight inferior game.Not surprising coming from modern squeenix though. They really can't make a good game anymore.
>>3872990>Is this game a "rpg"NO. It's a hack-and-slash with RPG-like elements.
>>3878585yes it is
>>3878639>>3878265In what way?
>>3878817I played it and got to pretend to be a different person. I Played a Role in the Game, one might say
>>3878977That describes every game in existence. If every game can be described as an RPG then it's a meaningless term.
>>3878977That's not what roleplaying means. Roleplaying does not just mean that you can see through a camera in some fictional space. It also does not mean you have an avatar.Roleplaying isn't just projecting yourself into a space. It is the opposite. You leave your self behind. The fantasy is not interacting with YOU through some middle-man avatar. The character is not merely immersed within a fantasy.In roleplay, the character originates within and is part of the fantasy. This complete lack of separation or "observer-perspective" sensation is the key and defining feature. You are not playing with Barbie and Ken in an RPG. In an RPG, there is no you. There is only Barbie who is talking with Ken.
>>3879195>>3879220yeah that's all a little too autistic for me. it's a role-playing game. it's final fantasy.
>>3879238Then cope
>>3879568i'm not the one coping, i had a great time playing it :)
>>3872990It has less rpg elements than Spiderman. Story, graphics and music were good. It's would be great hit if they made it classic ATB with party members.
>>3880496I hope atb never returns. Do even indie games do atb as nostalgia bait?
>>3872990Is FF even on normies' heads right now? I had only realized 16 was a thing from the recent Death Battle. I didn't even know that 7Remake had multiple installments, I thought it was a one time thing. Trying to figure out what happened to this franchise cos it seems too lowkey recently for the giant that it is.
>>3882522I only know it exists because they added Clive to Tekken
>>3882522>Is FF even on normies' heads right now? I had only realized 16 was a thing fromDo your "normies" ever look up games? Like opening the playstation game store
>>3882543>playstation game storeUhhh like Babbages or Electronic Botique or??
>>3872990Duh everyone knows the first and foremost thing that makes an RPG an RPG is bad gameplay. As soon as it even makes an ever so slight step towards actual playability it ceases to be an RPG and becomes an action-adventure!
>>3882549That's how I'm going to troubleshoot RPGs from now on.>did you play a role?>y-yes>..did you have fun doing it??>yes for gods sakes I admit it I had fun!!>I KNEW IT! NOT RPG
>>3872990>Is this game a "rpg"It basically is because it completely fails a competent action game. The combat is pure fucking garbage
