Could it have been good? better than Beth Fallout at least?
>>3881536Nope.
>>3881536likely bad given interplay management and the 3d engine, but still better than the actual 3d games
>>3881536No but the original Fallout 4 following Van Buren could have been good
>>3881536FO3 is maybe my least fav of the main FO games 4 and 76 arent real and i dont believe in them, but theres zero chance the series would still be around if they kept trying to make isometric RPGs through the 00s. and the crude af 3D engine in this tech demo wouldntve turned heads even in the earliest of the 00s. it wouldve relied solely on the brand of fallout, which while big by PC standards, wasnt even big enough to keep the lights on at interplay.its certain that the the story wouldve been far superior. but thats also an extremely low fucking bar. emil is just abysmal at writing anything but goofy sidequests which i unironically think is his greatest strength, he just needs to be barred from working on anything serious or main quest-related nvm the main questline.
>>3881536I'm was never too crazy about the graphics. I'm sure the game would have played fine, though. The story probably would have been great, considering what New Vegas did and what was cut out for time.That being said, I was a fan of Bethesda long before Fallout 1 and 2, with Arena and Daggerfall, so I wasn't too upset when they decided to make Fallout 3 first person. I despise Fallout 3 now, so Van Buren would have been more my taste for sure.
>>3881536They had neat ideas and a very cool setup for the whole action and consequences with the virus stuff. If you stayed too long in one town they start to get infected, same for all the prisoners who escaped too and where travelling in the waste in real time, iirc.Also the orbital canon that could only be "disarmed" by redirecting the target anywhere including Hoover Dam where the final battle would happen is interesting.Viktor Presper seems to be a very shit antagonist, but I like the idea of a shadow governement within NCR with their own goal to turn it into a strong dictatorship, then again his whole plan seems insanely retarded like spreading a virus and using an oribtal canon which would somehow help to restore the glory of NCR. General Oliver in this game is an absolute unit, a much different and cooler character than in FNV.Like this anon said >>3881555 , Fallout 3 was just the setup for Fallout 4. They had a very different Caesar Legion, the BoS should've been an even minor faction as the underdog with a figure like Elijah (come to think of it maybe Viktor Presper and Elijah were written with the same intention) and NCR had to dealt with all the shit Presper started back in Fallout 3. Mr. House or a figure like him would've been around. All in all, I think I prefer the version of FNV even if I think some stuff like the Legion need a serious re-design in their own army and philosophy to be credible and a threat in the universe of Fallout. Iirc, the Van Buren Legion used high tech weapons and armors but only for the best and they leaned much more into the Greco-Roman myhtos from what I read up and thats including all the stuff with the daughters of Hecate too who seemed to be the enemies of the Legion in VB.But hey who knows, FNV is good enough for me and the Sonora mod gives me enough lore and headcanon to imagine a fun and interesting that area under the banner of Caesar. They even manage to make the Desert Ranger and a cool spin on the BoS.
>>3881536I like a lot of the Ideas on paper but if Van Buren were to have actually been finished then I worry Interplay would have somehow fucked part of it over like they did with Fallout 2. Brotherhood of Steel on PS2 was the real vision they wanted for the franchise. Just as corporatized like Bethesdas take, only slightly edgier. But like with Fallout 2 itself, I think the actual team would have been able to get 80% of the good ideas out and we could have had another classic Fallout game. Hell with how I romanticize it, it probably could have beaten both F1 and F2 as the classic Fallout game to play, but alas that's another timeline. Ultimately though New Vegas is probably the better interpretation of Van Buren as a whole since most of the ideas were left to cook a little longer. A luxury that Fallout 2 didn't get.
>>3881536>Could it have been good? better than Beth Fallout at least?This sort of reasoning is the reason crowdfunding took and people waste millions of dollars on the vague promise of a functioning product.Could it have been better? Yes.Could it have been worse? Yes.The point is you don't know and you're gambling on a hypothetical scenario.
>>3881536>better than Beth Fallout at least?I can't imagine it being worse even if it had been thrashed like arcanum/toee/vtmb. Interplay was completely wrecked so I guess it could have been even a tier down from that, but just being written by people that have read a book for fun makes it something out of Bethesda's reach
>>3881536The best stuff was re-used for New Vegas, so what'd be the point.
>>3882113it would be an RPG
Fallout was never a great franchise. I say this as a fan of the games, the franchise squeaked by on aesthetics for at least the first 2 games. Tactics showed some actual promise of trying to do something innovative with the IP outside of just your standard isometric CRPG. Between Lore inconsistencies (Yes I know Tactics was a huge offender but even before and after Beth it was not treated as canon) and a fairly static game world Fallout truly wasn't doing anything really unique.
>>3882130A different camera angle doesn't make something an RPG or not.
>>3882199no, but making it a first person shooter does
>>3881536>better than Beth Fallout at least?It certainly couldnt be worse.
>>3881536Better than 3 we got (in terms of story, atmosphere and such, not the gameplay per say), but worse than New Vegas.
>>3882174>Tactics showed some actual promise of trying to do something innovative with the IPThis has to be bait, they literally made Tactics to capitalize on multiplayer and Diablo gameplay.The turn based elements of the game wasnt even beta tested and they still released the game with both turn base and real time combat.
>>3882495>this has to be baitThe 'Fallout wasn't doing anything really unique' didn't tip you off?
>>3882496I mean that could be argued with Wasteland being released before and some sci-fi litterature having similar themes and vibes of early Fallout. Even if I think its a stretch desu, its just that to say that Tactics was somehow innovative is a bit too much. The only thing they really tried with Tactics was to capitalize on what was selling at the time like multplayer games.
>>3882499You go and play Wasteland and then tell me how similar you think they are.
>>3881536>better than Beth Fallout at least?Not exactly a high bar to pass. Better quest design and writing, absolutely. Better 3D FPS, no, but thatbwas never the point of Fallout until Bethesda forced it.
>>3882501Fallout was a direct homage to Wastrland. The box even said “Remember Wasteland?” on it
>>3881536If you greatly prefer the style of 1 and 2, and CRPGs over ActionRPGs, then... maybe?Given the chaos the studio was in, there's every likelihood Van Buren would have been a terrible bomb. Glitchy, half-baked, boring, poorly paced.In fact, yeah, as a game it almost certainly would have been worse than real life's Fallout 3.Fallout 3 is pretty good. It's a bit more artistically compelling than the average Bethesda game while being just as accessible
>>3882537Of all the issues Fallout 3 has, its art direction was on point. I think it was Adam Adamowicz who made sure everything looked properly post apocalyptic.
>>3882538The guy who only knows Adam Adamowicz by name:>I think it was Adam Adamowicz who made sure everything looked properly post apocalyptic.
>>3882538Mfw green filter
>>3882538>its art direction was on pointExcept they made everything an apocalyptic shithole again after America was rebuilding already in Fallout 2.
>>3882602>Americajust cali
>>3882603>200 years after the nukes but they couldn't advance past building some shacks
>>3882630Nta, IMO that's the way the setting should be. No vault cities or some such
>>3882636They advanced the timeline to the point the world level they made was stunningly retardedWhen people say Bethesda can't write those kinds of decisions are what they mean
>>3881536not a chancethough it being dogshit wouldn't have stopped Contrarian RPG players from celebrating it as some misunderstood masterpiece
>>3882892>people sayNothing that matters to me
people just grade Bethesda in so many weird retarded apologetic ways, like "it's good that they don't write it like it's really been 200 years" when it was their decision to say it's been 200 yearsBethesda is retarded and driven from the top by people that are stupid. It's not that they don't care and are trying to keep it simple for dumb fans either. They tried shit like the Shawn twist in Fallout 4 thinking it was going to be a ripping twist. They're simply stupid, have no creativity or judgement, and people need to face that fact.
>>3881536I think it would have been ok but probably worse than FO1/2 when weighted on its own merits. Some cool gameplay ideas and decisions were planned for it from what we can glean in the design docs, some interesting locations too, but the main quest and the main villain were to be God-awful and most convoluted yet. The more you read about it, the less sense it makes and the more glaring the bullshit becomes. Van Buren is treated as sort of a holy cow, a sacred grail of crpgs that's not to be touched, but that's only because it never got made and we played it in our imagination. I think it's better if it stayed that way and the various mod projects that are trying to resurrect it in this or that way are just going to end up doing damage to the dream.
>>3883289I like the idea behind the main quest of being a old world disease carrier. Like being the catalyst for the return of the black plague. But there was some glaring holes in Van Burens reasons on getting there. Plus in someways, Prespers plan felt like just doing the Enclaves thing again. Hell it would probably make more sense if he just were Enclave instead of coming from the NCR. It really does feel like New Vegas is basically what Van Buren would look like refined. All the good ideas were expanded upon while the bad ones got culled.
I wish Fallout would have died after Tactics.Hell, I would've been OK with Fallout dying after 2.Shit, maybe it should've just ended at 1.
>>3883298Real Fallout Fans know that all games have their problems. Really we should have just gotten Wasteland 2 in the 90s.
>>3883301>Real Fallout Fans know that all games have their problems.Just feels surreal to me, after having grown up playing these games, to see anons discussing what is "canon" about a spinoff of a spinoff, and so on.>Really we should have just gotten Wasteland 2 in the 90s.We did, it was called Fallout: A Post Nuclear Role Playing Game.
>>3883298>I wish Fallout would have died after Tactics.>Hell, I would've been OK with Fallout dying after 2.>Shit, maybe it should've just ended at 1.I wish you never played Fallout at all
>>3883298You can remove Fallout 4 from existence, and all you'd lose is 76 and the show (win-win). Remove FO3, and you'd lose New Vegas and any potential new interest in classic Fallout. That's too big a loss regardless of how mediocre 3 is as an entry. The unfortunate part of all this is how New Vegas inspired so many great RPGs, yet nothing in its own series.
>>3883353>Remove FO3, and you'd lose New VegasDid I stutter?
>>3883354I am arguing. You know, that thing people do on forums?
>>3883353>interest in classic Fallout*crickets*
>>3883298Ok
>>3883301t. Faran Brygo
>>3883395For me, it's Koveras
>>3883298Tactics is complete shitThe only thing that makes it less bad than Bethesda is that Bethesda's was popular.
>>3881536it would've been niche shit and the last fallout game ever made
>>3883562L take, Tactics is kino
>>3884971bunch of retarded aussies made an unfun game that was also written by doubling down on all the worst parts of Fallout 2
What are the active Van Buren projects these days? It feels like a whole lot of them got announced but none of them are ever getting finished. Hell, Fallout Mexico was supposedly based on Van Buren and that shit was cancelled recently.
>>3883353without bethout 3 there would have been a real fallout 3 during the kickstarter revival and it would have come out around 2015it, or alternate timeline fallout 4, could also have been Sven Vinke's crazy AAA game instead of baldur's gate 3there are a couple of different ways everything could be better than bethesda pus. Nothing is guaranteed but nothing is still better than this too.
