Shiren the Wanderer celebrated its 30th anniversary a few days ago, so lets have a Mystery Dungeon thread. Which Shiren game is your favorite, and what would you want to see in Shiren 7?And when the fuck is Shiren Asuka's translation patch getting finished?
>>3886333>What do you want from Shiren 7I'm good with what we have for another decade. Chunsoft making modern ports for the old games, especially stuff like Moonlight Village PC and Asuka Kenzan, would be preferable, honestly.>Asuka translationThe guy doing it is dealing with IRL work crunch and put it on hold.
>>3886333>Asuka translationAs said by the other anon the guy behind it is busy with IRL stuff, you can play the second part of the game tho (story/most NPC dialog is untranslated but everything gameplay related is translated)
>>3886333The n64 one is my favorite because it's probably the easiest
>>3887438I remember trying to collect all of the monsters in that but then quit once I realized the requirements for getting all n'dubbas.
>>3886944A modernized port of Asuka would be nice, but I have to assume they'd ruin the artwork with some crappy upscaling. Even just adding volume sliders... I dunno if it's an issue with the windows port or what, but the audio mixing in that game is total crap.
just started playing snes shiren today. its not a bad roguelike, although a little simplistic (to be expected for such an early roguelike). i like the enemy variety with the radishes and bow guys. the maps can be a little disjointed and require backtracking, which is made worse by the animations slowing things down. i just hope the warehouse isnt necessary to progress.
>>3891035The warehouse isn't really required in Shiren SNES, it's mostly just there to help you if you have trouble beating the game.There are some party members you can unlock which help a lot if you're struggling to beat the game, though I only beat the DS version so I don't know how good they are in SNES.
>>3891047that's good then, id say im decent at roguelikes so if its not challenge run tier without warehouses then i can probably push my way through. a monster just leveled up and kicked my ass, also the mountain pass is much more connected than forest or stream levels which is nice.
I do remember some anon saying SNES Shiren runs can be pretty heavily RNG dependent because of how the game will seed enemy spawns, there's some fortune-telling thing you can check to get a hint on how bad a run will rape you but I forget how it works exactly.
Are the gameboy games worth playing?
>>3887438Ah Shiren 2, I have fond memories of that one('s later parts). The final post game dungeon was probably the hardest Shiren related thing I beat. The OP Scout and Wall clip bracelets are the MVPs. No wonder every speedrunner guns for those items.
>>3897232I've still never done the final post game dungeon for it, how bad is it compared to later Shiren games?
>>3899492The only other 99F dungeons I've done were in Shiren 5 so that's my baseline. 5 feels a lot more balanced than 2. Like many of my Road to the End runs were dashed because my food situation was terrible or I didn't find any strong items (possession staffs, synthesis items for runes, those OP bracelets). Options felt limited. In 5 there's an item to counter just about everything. I feel like if you play optimally the only thing that could really screw you are the rabbit enemies/traps. Unless you are one of those pro speedrunners that do no scout + wall clip bracelet runs, I would strongly consider resetting if I don't find those items on the earlier floors.
>>3896583Magic Castle of the Desert but it had a remake
>>3886333I’d like to see a decent art style again. Going from the SNES/DS releases feel so premium, while 6 just has no charm to it.
>>3902080That’s the DS one with a translation patch right? How much does the remake change?
>>3905303It basically did what Shiren DS1 did for the original SNES game. More dungeons, more items, and level 4 versions of the monsters. The only omission in DS2 I can recall is that items that fall on traps no longer activate them
Favorite enemy?
>>3909718It's kinda cheeky, but I like the enemies that inadvertently help you out. Mixers and Chows come to mind. A cute detail I noticed was that if you have a monster license for cheer hams, they will walk towards you and cheer you on
Hello vrpg, I'm not an rpg or jrpg fan by any means!!! but....I'm playing pic related for NDS (on my phone). Can anyone give me tips for beating it, should I be saving items in the town (storage or those jars?) or doing anything besides obviously running through the dungeon killing everything?How important is upgrading or can I get good gear naturally as I progress?How can I get more food I seem to be really damn hungry....Is it worth grinding levels early on or later ?Thank you. (Again not a fan or jrpgs but these mystery dungeon games and some BLOBBERS are okay in my book as they respect my time and aren't Bloated with...anyway that's a different issue)!!!
>>3910250Glad you're enjoying it! Shiren DS was my first mystery dungeon. Using storage is not needed to beat the main story but if you're struggling you could get a sword and shield with high base stats (dotanuki and armor ward) and upgrade them with the blacksmith and melding jars. Just make sure to put them into a storage pot before you die.The benefit of levels is felt most in the early game. Skilled players like to intentionally level up enemies to kill them and get a head start. Level up a rice changer to a rice boss and you'll see what I mean. The best way to kill tough enemies is by throwing gitan. You can put them into your inventory by using the run command and stepping on them and swapping it with an item in your inventory or putting it in a pot. Thrown gitan deals 10% of its value in damage. Pair this with the pitcher's armband and you can kill a line of enemies!You'll learn that you shouldn't take every enemy head on in Shiren. Use staves and arrows against tough enemies instead of melee. It'll whittle you down less. Food is more luck based. Make sure to get a free riceball from the barkeeper in the bar to the left in the starting area.Sorry for the text dump, I get autistic about this series.
>>3910940thanks wow, didn't expect such a great delayed response :D
I've never played a Shiren game before. Of the two on Switch which should I play?
>>3912198Shiren 6 is probably better for new players since it has better tutorials/in-game notes, and it doesn't have the day/night mechanic that 5 has which can be a filter for newer players. I also just don't like the day/night mechanic in general.Shiren 5 goes on sale for pretty cheap though if money is something you're worried about.
>>39121985 and 6 are the only two I've played so far, and I preferred 6. For the main game at least, haven't played 5's postgame yet, and I've heard it's got more challenge.My issue with 5's main dungeon is mostly in how much revive/undo grass it hands out. Maybe I just got stupid lucky but it was way too much and made it so I never even lost once. 6 took me several tries, and that's a GOOD thing in this series.Failing and learning until you can break through situations you previously couldn't with your experience (or luck lmao) is a great thing, and being too gentle really dampers that. sadly my first clear was thanks to an op party member...but stillAlso, 5 has that disruptive day/night system that I wasn't a fan of.
Which version of Shiren 1 should be played, if not currently interested in doing postgame stuff?
>>3913554To me the biggest difference between the versions is the addition of many postgame dungeons. I'd probably say the SNES version is slightly harder so if you'd like a challenge go for it. Then again, the SNES version has more jank that can be exploited. If you own a (3)DS, just try the DS version for an hour or so and see if you enjoy it. If not, try out the SNES ver.
Switch 2 update patch for shiren 6 fucking WHEN?
Just saved someone on F30 of Serpentcoil Island. On one hand, saving someone right at the end of the dungeon feels nice.On the other, if he couldn't beat the boss the first time, how's he possibly gonna win after probably depleting his good stuff already? Wish I could pass him an escape scroll at least, cause he can't even find those yet if the boss is still there...Here's hoping I'm wrong and he wins. I find that bosses in these games are a lot of fun when you have just enough resources to win by clever maneuvering.
>>3896583GB1 has like 3 different ports, one of those is for PC
>>3905303Mechanically only what >>3905502 said, otherwise it's balanced fairly similar to the original GB2 somehow (level 4 monsters don't appear naturally in any dungeon afaik)
>>3913554DS1, simply cuz is the least janky version and you don't have to deal with Aeon Genesis nonsense (even if the Sega localization is awful too)Real ones play Kaizo Shiren 1
>>3910250>I'm playing pic related for NDS (on my phone).I'm still salty that the Mobile ports of 1 and 5 are Japan exclusive.
>>3915358Ooh, got a link?
>>3915416Link to what?The Aeon Genesis Patch or Kaizo Shiren?>https://w.atwiki.jp/hack_shiren/pages/42.htmlIn any case this site lists both patches. Kaizo Shiren is in Moon runes and doubt anyone would bother translating it in the next 10 years, besides that is pretty awesome both gameplay wise and on the technical side of things
>>3909718This thing (Sluggy). Hopefully it appears in the next game
>>3915417Thanks Anon, I was looking for the Kaizo patch. I'd heard of FD2FSMB before but I'm lazy with learning languages. Maybe one day I'll go through it with my knowledge of only gana and kana
>>3915428Nice, i honestly can't read japanese but i can play Shiren just fine, i can recognize item names fairly easy and menuing is second nature at this point (maybe i should seriously consider learning japanese)There's another romhack patch called Shiren KP which is listed on the site but the link is dead, there are some videos of people playing through it but i bet they wouldn't share it
That Shiren bug will make you do desperate things...So I played a bit of Shiren 3 to see if its poor reputuation was earned. I got to the dual boss before Karakuri mansion before calling it there. It feels like none of the original devs for Shiren 1 or 2 worked on this game. They went for this strange story driven route instead of being gameplay focused. Allies play a bigger part in this game and while it is nice that it gives you more control over them than other Shirens, I prefer playing solo. There's also a boss after just about every dungeon. Bosses are always the weakest part of any mystery dungeon game. They are glorified damage per turn checks. Just attack, attack, and heal when needed. Nowhere near as deep as the improvisation you need for the regular dungeons. I'm off to play 4 to clean my palate.
>>3916037Honestly i think DS2 is worse gameplay wise than 3. 3 at least has decent post game dungeons that can be tackled solo, even if it suffers greatly from overtuned monsters (who the fuck decided giving monsters 2 abilities was a good idea???)>It feels like none of the original devs for Shiren 1 or 2 worked on this gameIronic since that's actually quite the opposite, the dev team is mostly the same, i imagine they gave too much power to Masato Kato, writer of Chrono Cross (infamous for being a convoluted mess of a game plot-wise) for this game
>>3916060Oh, that's interesting. I probably should've checked mobygames to see who worked on it instead of guessing.I only finished the main story and sampled some postgame dungeons, but I remembered having a really good time with DS2. It was probably because of the selection of items and enemies. The cannon, absorb, and teleport pots were so clever I'm sad we didn't see them in other games. Blessing items was also fun to mess around with. Potentially having infinite uses of scrolls and IDing items with blessed sight grass was great. Really wish the pitcher plants made a return. DS2 felt like Shiren DS1, but better. If I had to rank the Shiren titles from my most to least favorite, I'd go: Shiren 5>>>Shiren DS2>Shiren 2>>Shiren 1 (SNES)>Shiren 1 (DS)>>>Shiren 3What's your ranking?
>>3916119I mean DS2 has really interesting mechanics, but the 99F No-Carry in dungeon left a sour taste imo, the game is balanced weirdly, regardless of how good your equipment is you will take high damage and/or take 3 hits to kill anything My ranking would go: 5 > 2/Asuka > 4 > DS1 > GB1 > 3 > DS2. I think 3 is not bad as a game since it has interesting mechanics (tiles that negate certain items, slippery floor, Dragon Orbs, Elemental Affinities and so on) but they are not used to their fullest potential (there isn't a single No-Carry In Dungeon that has Dragon Orbs for some fucking reason) and the convoluted plot doesn't help the game either
Bumo
I like how the shopkeepers are strong fat fucks, since the original protagonist was one himself.It obviously wouldn't work i.p wise, but it'd be neat if there was a really small chance for Torneko to be the shopkeeper in a dungeon. I'd love to try robbing him!
So in Shiren 6, when you upgrade into the ultimate equipment pieces (Rasen Fuuma, Kabura Sutegi), does it keep the runes it already had, or is it treated as an entirely new weapon, with empty rune slots?
>>3918568They should keep the runes.https://sharksnack.github.io/shiren-6/system/synthesis-runes>Runes are retained up to a certain number of slots when you transform an item at the Blacksmith.>This applies to creating a Kajin Fuuma (10 slots), Kabura Sutegi (15 slots), or Rasen Fuuma (15 slots).
>>3918815Ah, I cannot read. Was going through that wiki for the answer and missed that paragraph every time. Thanks
F54 Heart of Serpentcoil Island, I've been building a badass Steak Knife build. Fed it and some other stuff to a Mixer, and realized he was too close to comfort so I knockback staffed him into a hall.Of course he starts running the other way, so I chased him into a pitfall trap. Cue 20-floor long miserable death spiral.
>>3919731That's why you should trap check often, or at least if there's something important in the current floor
>>3920024Yeah. I'd already gone through the rooms in that floor, and I was trying to quickly corner the mixer cause a monk had sped him up, then delayed me "Get down Mr. President!"-style, so I wasn't thinking about traps at all, and obviously must have taken a different route through the room with the pitfall than the first time...
>>3912289Man, those 3d graphics really suck for a roguelike :( Are they planning on remaking some mystery dungeon games that keep the 2d spirit?
>>3921252Eh 6 looks fine imo, could be worse like 3 being a weird mix of semi realistic humans, some semi dark fantasy monsters like Skull Wizards and monsters with more cartoony proportions like Mamel or Zalokleft which stick out
Uh Shiren 6 actually released for Android/ios, and in english too apparently... cool.
>>3921716Game's so niche outside Japan I really don't see many English speakers needing or wanting to play it on their phones...But it's neat to have as an option for whatever audience would want to play it there.
>>3921716They'll do that but not make a switch 2 update patch REEEEEE
>>3921716those touch controls look terrible, it's as if they prepackaged a switch emulator with shiren 6 and called it a day. Had they given this game the shiren 5 treatment it would have been a day 1 purchase for me.
Do you like making money? Do you like making money that you can't keep? How about being forced to keep making that money just to survive?Great! Just input TpU6-9mUU and make me some goddamn money!Been hacking away at Heart of Serpentcoil, my first 99F dungeon in this series, and I think I have a winning run here. That itself isn't interesting, but I settled on the Spender's equipment for this run, and it's been fun. If anyone's interested in checking out a Spender's themed run, there you goStarts at 50F, and the Clairvoyant Bracelet ought to make it an easy win for anyone less retarded than me, cause I'll probably fuck it up somehow when I get back to it.
>>3921939Iirc 6 is made in Unity so they just tossed touch controls at the whole thing
In Shiren 6, what does the ill-fated seed actually do? Even the wiki doesn't say beyond "Something Terrible!"Scary.
>>3922162Uh? Odd there's no info for it, i imagine it's the same as previous games (level set to 1, HP set to 1, current fullness set to 0 + whatever the grass restores when consumed)
>>3921942 I managed to clear, and it was harder than expected. Underestimated just how bad 75 gitan per hit would be in the long run (Yes, when you hit multiple monsters at once, you get charged for each monster). Pretty scary not knowing when the next shop will be, and I only ever found one Cashing Pot. I definitely don't recommend the p2w microtransaction equipment for serious runs, cause that's a whole extra layer of shit to deal with.I'm sure more experience would help, but having just 1303 gitan at the end should tell the story, and some of that was from the last room!>>3922301Ok I figured it'd just kill you, but that's comically evil.
>>3922382what you're supposed to do is to sell everything you own in a shop then steal it back. Do it a few times and you're set for the run, if you can figure out how to get away with it.
>>3922395There are several times this run where I'm sure it was possible if I wasn't too chicken to try.Though a quick death from fucking up a robbery would be preferable to slowly dying from lack of funds in the end like what almost happened here. Wasn't considering stealing though, and being good at it would alleviate the problems entirely.Hell, come to think, even using Blanks Scrolls to erase the walls and steal would be better than what I was using them for. Made things harder than need be for sure
>>3922382>Ok I figured it'd just kill you, but that's comically evil.Basically yeah, wouldn't be the only one in ths series: Forgetfulness grass makes you forget all identified items in the current run and Imabikiso (or "Dark Fire Herb", thanks Atlus for butchering the name and missing the reference) Curses your whole inventory
>>3921939They did their best. It supports gamepads and external keyboards too, if you'd rather use those.
>>3922811Plus you have to take into account that 5 was a DS game so ofc it can be played on portrait mode unlike 6
Why did Chunsoft gave Oryu such big assets? What did they mean by this?
what is the WORST dungeon in the series?
I was a fool to dismiss these games as a kid based on reviews and general whining about unfairness. Especially should've known better cause I already loved the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games on ds and saw how gaming rags treated those.But maybe it's better to be discovering them now as an adult whose improved at vidya. Now I'm just feeling a bit shocked at how good it was even on the SFC. If I had any talent in expressing my opinions and an audience who cared for them I'd be shilling Shiren so hard.>>3928510I'm still pretty new, and the only postgame I've done anything in so far is 6, so obviously I'm making no claim on what the worst could be cause I'm sure there's some real shitters out there. But so far the Behemoth Rush is the only dungeon I felt was just a waste of time. Doing 99 floors of that sounds miserable.
>>3928510To me, it's any of the carry in dungeons with enemies so insanely overtuned it's basically required you grind for +99 gear to beat them (eg. sealed room from Shiren 2, or tainted path from Shiren DS1). The thing I love about Shiren is using what little you get to your anvantage and adapting to the dungeon. This is done best in the no carry in dungeons.Special shoutout to Shiren 5's dungeons that have level 3 and 4 Fearrabbits. You're effectively gambling with your life when on their floors without the steady shield. They can use their ability to teleport you and multiple enemies to their location while wasting your turn. Expect a collapse when this happens. One of the worst desinged enemies in shiren history.
>>3928510Define worst, as in boring? Unfair? If the former probably Gen's Turf/Trapper's Sandbox from 5. If the later then a lot of DS2 dungeons take the cake (Asuka, 5 and 6 have a lot of difficult dungeons but those aren't a pain to play imo)
>>3928589>it's any of the carry in dungeons with enemies so insanely overtuned it's basically required you grind for +99 gear to beat them (eg. sealed room from Shiren 2, or tainted path from Shiren DS1)Granted Sealed Room can be cleared with pretty normal gear (rescuing the childs, the 99F version might require some good equipment but nowhere near +99) Tainted Path too, the later games like GB2, Asuka, 4 and especially 5 certainly want you to bring powerful items to survive shit like naturally spawning Man-Eaters or Limit Broken monsters
>>3928589>Special shoutout to Shiren 5's dungeons that have level 3 and 4 Fearrabbits.So like 90% of base Shiren 5 Dungeons lmfao>One of the worst desinged enemies in shiren history.Absolutely, level 1 and 2 are fine early game but then 3 and 4 are just so stupidly dangerous you NEED a counter of some kind or you put the run at risk on the latter half of any dungeon (those fuckers normal appear around 55F or 70F in most dungeons) doesn't help either they just hit you totally free in a game where you want to actively avoid getting hit due to low HP regen when having high max HP
>>3928575>Now I'm just feeling a bit shocked at how good it was even on the SFC. Yeah they really used every part of the bird with Shiren 1 SFC. You have your. Standard gameplay but then you can use monster meat or traps, mechanics that were meant to mess with the player now turned into another gameplay style, it's genius design.
>>3928656I did exaggerate a bit too much there. You're right that many of the dungeons don't fully expect grinding for +99 gear. I just really prefer the dungeons where you're a blank slate. Road to the End was infinitely more fun than Sealed Room to me.>>3928654I cant believe none of the playtesters had an issue with them. Of all the enemies, they feel like they have the least counters for how good their ability is. At least with dragons you could get a shield, create an anti flame seal, use a zen pot, use a pitcher and monster detecting bracelet to snipe them, or even just heal through their fire. Are gazes or mages an issue? You could get lucky and find an anti magic shield, or just use a reflect pot. What do you do against a Horrabbit or Terrabbit without a steady shield? Preemptively use speed grass? Get a genocide scroll?
>>3928762Bottom half was for >>3928660 A Terrabbit teleported me away.
>>3928762>What do you do against a Horrabbit or Terrabbit without a steady shield? Preemptively use speed grass? Get a genocide scroll?There's like 4 counters but they aren't as consistent as countering Dragons or Gazers>level up a Heavy Shield to lv8, gains UnmovingNobody does this outside of Old Road in 5 (near impossible in 4 since that shield sucks your hunger even faster as it levels up, wtf were they thinking?) you could hunt Man-Eaters to level up the shield fast but that requieres luck for the items needed to do so safely>Extinction ScrollEither find one in a shop or create one via Blank Scroll, don't count on it when you really need it>Steady ShieldNot super rare, but not common either so... RNG dependant>Gambler Scroll, Extinction effectYeah no thanks, you need to be in the same floor as one and prey the thing actually targets the rabbits instead of blowing you up or stealing all your money so if all of the above fails your last option is...>Rush StairsEither at night or just as fast as possible if in a day-only dungeon.Yeah not fair at all unlike Dragons or Gazers (i would argue Tanks in this game are at the same level of bullshit with their smart AI, low HP regen late game and limited options to deal with them outside of Zen Pots)
>>3928762>I did exaggerate a bit too much there. You're right that many of the dungeons don't fully expect grinding for +99 gear.Yeah, for the average player +99 is the safest option (hell probably intended in 5 since limit broken monsters hit like a truck even with a +99 shield) and fair enough, those aren't the most interesting dungeons in their respective games, if anything they are an excuse to dump rare gear on a shop on the 90F+ range
>>3928814I remember finishing a 99F run of the Underground Manor's general district and the tanks were one of the easier enemies to me. Zen and Water pots castrate them and while they could jump you with their double speed, they can only ever hurt you when you're in the room with them. Without a zen pot I'd just seal them and use another item to finish them off. I'm looking at the beastiary right now and I can't really find an enemy that causes as much dread as the rabbits. The mesmerikons are countered by immunity status and dodger pots, an item way more common than the steady shield in my experience. Bouncy are countered by talismans. Gyazas have no weakness by design but you could still buff yourself.
>>3928883>they can only ever hurt you when you're in the room with them. Not really, you're underestimating getting hit by 40 or 50 to 100 damage in a hallway if you don't have anti-explosion and/or monster detector. Sure they are easier to counter overall no doubt but they can be really infuriating under specific-but-not-so-uncommon scenarios imo>Bouncy are countered by talismansMan what was Chunsoft thinking by buffing these mofos in 5? Sure you can play without talismans (i have done so a lot of times) but they still hit so stupidly hard late-game with or without talismans is kinda comedic
Closest monster i can think of are level 3-4 Shaggas, especially with Auras (although any monster with auras in the game requieres your immediate attention if there's one near)
New art from the Shiren twitter, apparently the entire series has sold 3 million units in total.
>>3932707https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHbH0X6A83AThey've got a popup store for a few weeks in Akiba too, and I'm jealous I can't blow my money on the merch there.For the best since I'm not much a collector type, but if something cool pops up that can be bought online I might go for it...
I'm just getting into the first one. this game is pretty addictive. furthest run so far ends anticlimactically
>>3933759I died the exact same way the first time I got to that very floor. Absolute bastards, easy Genocide targets.
>>3933759Yeahhhh never let those fucker act, use any item you have to disable them, otherwise you are risking the run
>>3933571I wish I had gotten that goodsmile Koppa plush back when pre-orders were available for it, hope they end up selling more of them sometime.
I doubt Old Road's even one of the harder dungeons in Shiren 5 but I'm having a hell of a time getting through it.Absorbiphants, those shitty dirt birds, magic rabbits, the crabs...Maybe I'm just reeling from getting whacked while learning new monsters, but I feel like this game has a particularly mean selection!
>>3936464>but I feel like this game has a particularly mean selection!Pretty much yeah, Scoopies (dirt birds) in general can be infuriating and Horrabbits are really unfun. I assume you are attempting the first clear? If you feel confident on your skills try rushing stairs at night, keep anything that let's you create a safe space to wait for night
>>3936929Yup, it was first clear. And I won with a lucky run right after I whined in that post. Blazing Shield (the lantern) is crazy good. And when I tried abusing the real time hunger by cycling through nights to farm the monster drops, I met the Maneater and learned they're just scary-looking punks that exist to give xp and equipment levels.
>>3936953Nice, yeah Man-Eaters are can be tough but they also give a lot of equipment exp AND drop shop items so they are worth hunting as long as you can survive the encounter
>>3936986>are canDamn i need to type a bit slowly haha
Is Shiren 5 good? I looked at the list of dungeons and there's so many that it's hard for me to imagine all or even most of them being well designed
>>3939863Most were added on the Vita and Switch/Steam re-releases but generally everything in the base game and the No-Carry-in dungeons added are good, there are some boring dungeons like Gen's Turf or Trapper Sandbox but they can be ignored
>>3939863Shiren is always a pretty good time, until you accidentally overpower yourself, but even then, you'll get cocky and lose it all.
>>3891035Be aware, the warehouse is not necessary, but the weather predictions by the witch before you start a journey has major impacts on what you will encounter. In my testing, if you have bad weather predictions like hot winds, a no warehouse run is nigh impossible. A quick word on how SNES Shiren works. It's a console game so it doesn't have the power to generate a random floor layout. What it has are a number of different layouts for each floor which is then have different enemy, item and trap spawns based on the current weather. It's possible to test because the floor layouts cycle with each step. So I did it by starting a new game, getting a good weather prediction and then starting a level. Then I made a new save, waited till I got a bad weather prediction, then walked back and forth certain numbers of times until I got the same floor layout. From there, if you get Shiren to the stairs in the same number of moves then the next floor will be the same in both versions and you can see how the weather affects things. Certain things of note, on the bad weather run many more Weed Bandits showed up in the early levels. In good weather you can explore the level, collect useful items and have some fights. In the bad weather, even when I knew exactly where items would be, it was usually only possible to make it to one item, sometimes two with all the rest being turned to weeds. Also as you can see in pic related, a bad weather run will also have more traps, vs the good weather version. If you want to really get into the game, take this to heart. Most people don't think weather affects anything, even after the extensive testing I did.
>>3940059> if you have bad weather predictions like hot winds, a no warehouse run is nigh impossible.The predictions in Shiren 1 literally do nothing brother, it's all in your head.They actually do stuff in some of the later games though
>>3940059did I miss out on a friend by not punching the drunk guy who borrows money?
>>3940166Everyone says that, but as I say I tested this quite extensively. I could consistently generate the same floor layout in two different runs where the witch had given plesant breezes in one and hot winds in the other. This wasn't one floor, one time. I generated many identical layouts and every single time the hot winds run floor was marketedly worse. Anyone can go test this themselves, it takes time save scumming but it's not hard. No one ever does though, they just don't believe me. I've seen the proof in the pudding. Dozens of runs I did on this floor layout alone trying to see if there was any way to beat weed changers to most of the items. Calm breezes you can easily get every item on the floor, hot winds and you can only ever get one if you beeline for it and some are impossible. Something in the game makes it generate floors consistently easier sometimes and consistently harder on another run. Maybe it's pure coincidence that the witch's prediction is right on the money, but that seems like a pretty big coincidence.
>>3940206Yes but he'll show up again later afer a few runs, there's none of the quests in the game are permanently missable
>>3940209>I've seen the proof in the puddingThere's a decent sized speedrunning/challenge community for Shiren in Japan and literally everyone there says it doesn't mean anything. People have literally went into the code and confirmed it doesn't mean anything. But sure, whatever buddy you alone discovered the hidden truth. If you want to find out why you're constantly losing watch gameplay videos of people that are better than you or check the wiki for tips don't try to blame it on non-existing mechanics
>>3940211>If you want to find out why you're constantly losingThat's not at all what I was talking about, but I think you know that. I ended up doing this testing long after having played and beaten the DS and then rom of the famicom one and did the testing because it was starting to seem fishy. But as predicted again, no one else has ever mentioned testing it themselves. It's not hard to generate the same floor on two different runs, there aren't that many. Nor is it hard to get to the stairs each time in the same number of turns so you keep generating the same layouts with different starts. Not a single time ever did a hot winds run generate a better layout of items, traps and monsters than the calm breezes one over dozens of different generations on different floors.
>>3940215>That's not at all what I was talking abouthttps://arch.b4k.dev/vg/thread/302100327>That was exactly my problem as well but I kept running into people trying to tell me it was perfectly winnable from a raw save and the fortune teller was gibberish. A shame because I love the aesthetics but at it's base Shiren is kind of a terrible game. Unless you warehouse it's literally a slot machine. You've been coping about this for at least 6 years at this point lol
>>3940209>>3940215Dude... Shiren 1 SFC has been decompiled for a while now, the predictions do nothing in this game.
>>3940222>>3940495Well, something causes an effect where two different runs with the same map layout produce dramatically different results. It is very testable as I described. Maybe it was coincidence that on the run with more shitty monsters and traps was when she gave a bad prediction and consistently easier monsters and no traps on exactly the same map layouts when she gave a good prediction, but the overall results are the same.
>>3942303Those maps are "shuffle maps" there's like a doze of those, the game just shuffles them (hence the name) everything else can be random
>>3942950I am talking about generating the exact same map layout but with different monster, item and trap spawns. For example more weed bandits on the level so that the player cannot have time to get more than one or two items before they are changed. Or again, far more trap spawns.The most important point I have been trying to emphasize is that the effects persist over multiple floors. One run will have consistently easier spawns vs another with harder ones. With two runs starting on the same map layout you can keep them consistent by reaching the exit in the same number of turns. Every single time, one run was very, very noticeably different on each floor. To see this effect reproduced dozens of times over multiple levels is a pretty clear indicator that something other than pure randomness is at play. It would be the equivalent of rolling a dice dozens of times and every time the first run rolls a one and the second one rolls a six. One final note, as has been pointed out I did this testing some years ago and have mentioned it a number of times. People will reply 'no no no you're wrong, everything is random' but not a single person has done the same tests.
>>3942982Anyway... what do you think about the other Shirens? I think I remember you saying you tried 5 or DS1 in another thread
>>3942982There are two types of floors in the game: "random dungeons" and "shuffle dungeons". Random dungeons are those were each room is rectangular and connected by tunnels and as the name imply they are randomly generated.Shuffle dungeons are the ones with more complex patterns and there's only a set number of them pre-built and the game selects one of them once you get to that floor. In the first dungeon of Shiren 1, floors 1 through 7 are shuffle dungeons and from floor 8 onwards is when you get the random patterns. Item generation and monster generation are separate from the actual shape of the floors so you resetting to get "the same layout" is pointless anyway. Each level has an "item table" and "monster table" where each monster and item is assigned a probability. Whenever a monster or item is generated it is according to that set probability. This probability is not affected by the fortuneteller predictions.>People will reply 'no no no you're wrong, everything is random' but not a single person has done the same tests.People have literally checked the code, people have been speedrunning this game for decades at this point. You have no idea what you are talking about. Google translate these if you want actual info on how this game works:The monster table for the first dungeon:https://seesaawiki.jp/shiren1/d/%a4%b3%a4%d0%a4%df%c3%abItem tables: https://seesaawiki.jp/shiren1/d/%c6%bb%b6%f1%a4%ce%bd%d0%b8%bd%ce%a8Information on shuffle dungeons/random dungeons: https://seesaawiki.jp/shiren1/d/%A5%D5%A5%ED%A5%A2%A4%CE%A5%BF%A5%A4%A5%D7
Just got into Shiren with the ds version of the first game. Is picrel any good?
>>3943178No. The only good MD games besides Shiren are the Torneko ones. Shiren 2 (N64, not DS), 5 and 6 are all good choices for your next game. 3 is by far the shittiest game in the series and not even a roguelike, 4 is too hard for beginners.
