Wildstar deserves a mention. It's one of those games where it could have been amazing or a solid to decent game if they didn't choose to make it an MMO. Especially because they tried going for the old school World Of Warcraft crowd, which doesn't exist anymore. Plus, Blizzard autists are similar to Nintendo autists: they don't want x inspired by y, they want more of y.
>Has an artstyle that I enjoy the look of
>Some neat race ideas such as the robo people and the zombified people
>Could have been a fun, multiplayer action rpg
>Could have been designed similar to Monster Hunter/Deep Rock Galactic where there's a hub zone and you can form up groups before going on missions

All MMOs are based on getting the player addicted to the game apart from the "fun" of playing it, being driven to continually log in and spend money on it, and are automatically trash as RPGs.

>>3888191
>player addicted to the game apart from the "fun" of playing it, being driven to continually log in and spend money on it,

play 9Lives then. the "dead" nipponese MMORPG.
it's totally freeeee beside the paying for your internet ISP part of cose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB3XrJqKvs8

my bad "NineLives".
https://mmos.com/review/ninelives

>>3888210
You don't understand my post.

>>3888168
>Please do not post this wallpaper online.
ANON WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

>>3888191
Sub based mmo - aryan, promethean, Faustian.

“Free2Play” mmo-gachas - brown, degraded, atavistic

>>3888187
Ah, yeah that one really hurt.

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>>3888168
nothing ever matched the feeling of entering norrath for the first time. that feeling of truly being in a different world, vast and full of mysteries

The thing with a lot of older MMOs is that even when there's private servers it's never really the same

Warhammer aor, as imbalanced and bugged as it was i enjoyed it a lot, wish i had a bunch of friend to play RoR with.

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I miss it.

>>3888324
Because original EQ was a persistent world platform for fantasy adventures. It was a virtual place. The concept of "MMO" as we currently have it only emerged later. In those days, you logged onto persistent worlds to meet people and be dorks together with roleplay and the drama of extremely dangerous adventures. It wasn't hack-and-slash. At all. Combat took like three minutes to kill a single trash mob. You spent ten minutes sitting down resting after pulling a clump of mobs. Your entire group was seriously in danger of dying and losing all their equipment on top of lost xp (which could cause you to lose a level, even). There was serious risk involved when you entered a dungeon and it only escalated the deeper in you got. They didn't have maps. You had to actually learn your way around by exploring and remembering. Or drawing your own map. On paper.
It was worth it to talk to NPCs because you never knew what you might learn or what service or quest they might offer. They weren't marked as "this is a quest guy". There were game-breakingly powerful items you could get by discovering a complicated quest because you talked to an obscure guy in the back of the smithy and found a rare spawn deep in a dungeon and figured out what to do by assembling clues around the world, like the blued hammer.
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=552
It proc'd an AoE which didn't cost mana. In a game where wizards had to sit down for ten minutes after they blew their wad on AoE'ing a clump of mooks. It was considered so game breaking that there was debate about whether to remove it from the game entirely. In the end they left it in because they felt like it. Not based on any math or anything. They just felt like it.

>>3888277
Perennial content treadmill=garbage, F2P or subscription based, you are a degraded man.

>>3888360
>cont'd
The real reason EQ is now obscure and forgotten is because people keep trying to make it a fast hack-and-slash like Diablo.
EQ was at its best when it was about dorky roleplay and difficult slow adventure. Most private servers allow you to use automation tools, mods and bots which completely fucking ruins the point. The few servers which forbid botting are the most popular. When you see server populations on boxing servers just divide that number by ten or even twenty to estimate how many actual humans are logged in (they aren't playing, they just have their bots farming while they're watching YouTube or whatever).

>>3888360
>>3888370
tldr: tedium good, the slogan of all mmotards, only arguing between each as to the exact amount

>>3888379
That's not what I said at all, and nor is it the conclusion of anyone who likes MMOs. The overly reductionist approach always fails to produce viable game design, by the way. Which is why all arpgs like Diablo and PoE are consigned to their ghetto right next to MOBAs. Those aren't games. Those are vehicles for money laundering, extracting money from exploited victims through neurological addiction mechanisms.
EQ was originally intended to be a persistent world tabletop rpg experience. There are such things in tabletop, but the bookkeeping and scheduling issues prevent them growing too large. When computers were leveraged to help with that, we got MUDs and then the original concept of MMOs.
A slower pace of content experiences, that is "downtime", is important for the same reason your brain needs sleep. It's not "tedium". It's resting. Without that rest, you literally cannot fully experience what just happened.
That's why you keep mindlessly spamming one button in Diablo: you still haven't even really registered any of them. You're desperately jamming the button on your Skinner Box and wondering why you can't get a hit of dopamine, minewhile the mechanism is doing literally nothing but spraying dopamine at your brain... you've made yourself immune to the very thing you desperately crave.
The original EQ was wisely designed to avoid that by specifically ensuring there were rest periods during gameplay. It was also for the sake of allowing time for social interaction which players considered to be the "true" content of the experience...

>>3888395
i've seen mmotards crying about their games getting more accessible for decades. the fact is that you guys want to feel value in their accounts through experiencing tedious busywork.
personally, i'm glad you bitches are fully harvested now that the psychologists perfectly understand you.

>>3888415
You have no idea what playing an MMO actually involves. You think it means modern WoW. And if you had been reading, you'd know I very specifically and clearly made a distinction there. Maybe if you spent less time twitching feebly at your dopamine dispenser you'd have time to learn how to parse what is being said.
Oh well. Back to your little grind. Maybe if you squeeze that useless brain hard enough you'll eke out another drop to last you another minute.

>>3888417
it can't be about modern wow because i've heard mmotards make the same complaints since 2010.
i also don't play mmos at all. i'm specifically here to shit on this thread.

>>3888360
It did feel like the older ones seemed more content to just let you be. Now it's just about keeping up with events, rotations and meta.

World of Warcraft. I spent 20 years playing the game on and off (usually in private servers). ever since I quit permanently playing I've finished over 30 games. I'd rather see an ending of a game and play lots than permanently be stuck playing the same ol shit game.
FUCK WOW

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we will never EVER have a game like this again...

>>3888491
Modern games have staff psychologists to maximize addictive potential. Hence all the gambling mechanics, “dailies” to drive “engagement”, and so on.

>>3888360
You don't know what you're talking about.

>>3888592
Not a party to this argument but yeah, it does sound like he knows what he’s talking about.
>t. only played EQ for about five minutes, but did play MUDs before it came out

>>3888571
I've tried to play a few f2p games and the amount of event gacha currency I was hit with just felt like an avalanche. I'm barely level suck and it's already hitting me with shit before I even started playing the game. It's impossible to get an actual proper experience especially if you're years behind.

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>>3888168
>>3888370
>>3888395
Utterly Based RPG Connoisseur

>>3888379
Utterly trash slop gobbler who is also the actual cancer that is marketed to

My pick, which had so many amazing experiences I never had anywhere else:
>the fear and satisfaction of solo levelling in a full PVP environment, making real friends and enemies along the way
>leading raids, zergs, fortress defense, assaults
>as a Magus on fortress defense
>as a Witch Hunter or Marauder soloing out in the field
>the absolute kino WH aesthetic everywhere, even in the manual which duplicated the old school fantasy handbook bible print values
>filling a mine full of gas and traps with Dwarven Engineer support and knifing a full zerg of greenies in the dark and chaos
>boiling oil and siege
>the city takeovers and defense as a Chaos Warrior
>each little upgrade really mattering
>having a real rep on your class instead of just another faceless class brought to a raid to fill a slot

If only they had three factions and didn't listen to streamers and whiners and eternal zerg humpers and victims and potato computer poors to stick to their original guns instead of trying to cater to it as an e-sport:

>asymmetric factions are great, trying to 'balance' is a fool's game
>yin yang of Archmage magic
>Mobility of Squigs and White Lions for skirmishes

There were just so many real ideas in this game that they were unafraid to pursue. I feel bad for anyone that missed out on this coming up.
The distilled great parts of the DAOC lineage were killed by corporate mismanagement here and it was not fair to the obvious passion put into it by the devs.

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If you were a teen in the UK around early 00's then you might have played Legend of Mir. It even had a TV show dedicated to talking about it run by the Italian company that bought the rights to distrubute it in EU. There's private servers floating around, apparently, but the game as it was back then is dead and gone. Good times, though.

>>3888762
>Utterly trash slop gobbler who is also the actual cancer that is marketed to
are mmotards actually incapable of reading? that's twice, lol.

>>3888191
>>3888379
>this many years after mmos were relevant
>still needs to make hating them a part of his personality

MMOs like all online games have one huge pro and one huge con
PRO: the social aspect
CON: it's the same fucking game over and over and over

The con outweighs the pro imo. In a world where thousands of games exist, I find spending more than a few hundred hours in a single game a sin.

And then with MMOs you get the sunk cost fallacy.
You have spent thousands of hours which you don't want to "waste" by switching to another game, which leads you to playing more and more of the same game even if you are compltely sick of it.
And the only "satisfaction" you get is by lording over noobs with your thousands of hours worth of shiny stuff.
It's a vicious cycle, a disease that feeds upon itself and once you break it you will feel free.

>>3888168
mabinogi. I'ts such a cluttered mess and they skip most of the content and make you lvl 20000 off the bat. I'm waiting for mabinogi mobile to relive the experience.

>>3888187
>Old School WoW players don't exist.
Huh??

This is like saying D&D players don't exist. Old School WoW players exist and all over, it's game design that support vanilla WoW that doesn't exist.

I never played Wildstar. I wanted too, but go busy doing other things. It looked cool, but I must of forgot about it. Anyways, from an outside perspective, it was extremely cartoonish and came across as goofy and not serious what so ever. It gives me Overwatch vibes. The creators were dumbasses and thought raiding was end game. Like so many other MMORPGs

>>3888328
I felt this way for a long time, until found what I enjoyed the most from Vanilla WoW. I actually had more fun playing in a unique way than I did from first playing WoW back in the day. I think people get hung up on Raiding and BGs, and then it gets old and boring. Wpvp is always different and creating a custom roleplay just amplifies that.

>>3888370
This and your previous comment truly sum up modern gaming. It's all "Give me this now and this doesn't have enough dopamine grabbers". Just look at Classic WoW. People can't even raid without Parse numbers or people can't PvP without some sort of title or reward. Players constantly brag about "I don't roleplay, roleplaying is for dorks". Dude, you're playing a RPG, everyone is roleplaying, just not everyone is massive dork about it. It truly feels like when I play WoW nobody is really playing it as community. Yeah, you see people online, but it feels like everyone is kind of in their own world and they don't care about you, all they care about is what gear can I get from using this guild or using this group. Everything just revolves around rewards, not just stepping back and soaking in the memories or moments. People suck. I have yet to find a group of people who actually want to play a WoW together for just the memories or fun. It always has to involve "Well I need level 60, or I need this, I need that, I gotta get this, I'm not going if I can't have this" Fucking faggots.

>>3888395
Diablo is such a shit game. The atmosphere and vibe is cool, but stepping back its literally "I'm gonna spam the same campaign over and over till I hit 99, and then play the campaign over again." Diablo 1 to 3 are only fun to play with friends, other than that. Their ass. Fuck Diablo and I couldn't agree more that Diablo is designed to be a cash grab, which WoW eventually turned into. I see you're a big EQ guy, I unfortunately never got experience EQ back in the day. Wish I could of before WoW ruined me.

>>3889601
True. Turtle wow is popular as fuck but I don't want to spend 4hrs on an instance for an item that may/may not drop....

>>3889624
I agree, its cool to progress a raid or Dungeon, but beyond that then you're chasing gear and then more gear, and then what? Another expansion to chase more gear? I want to do more than just chase gear. I want to create fun experiences and if Blizzard is either too stupid or greedy to do it for us, then we as players need to come up with something as a community. Something more than just rewards or gear. This is what truly kills any MMO imo, is a community with no imagination, just a drive for greed. This modern gaming though. Very few people exist who want to just MMO and chill.

>>3889624
Where are you spending 4 hours?

>>3888567
I'm downloading this right now. This looks amazing, besides the goofy Korean aspects, but still this looks great. Private server

>>3889654
Have you ever played WoW? Raids or dungeons which are also known as instances can last even longer sometimes. Most raids and BRD or Mara.

>>3889654
Because turtle wow added more content to WC w/ the sane abysmal drop rates....

>>3889657
Speaking of 4 hour settings like they're commonplace reeks of somebody never playing WoW.
>four hours for fucking MARAUDON
Sure, champ.

>>3889670
You do know turtle is adding content to their instances which is a waste of time if you don't get any decent gear out of it

>>3889674
None of turtle's new content makes any place 4 hours long with any frequency or normalcy. You would struggle to find raid groups going 4 hours a night and that would mostly be in later expansions.

>>3889615
Why do you treat it like that? Getting to 99 isn't the goal. Beating the campaign is
You could criticize every rpg if you think getting to 99 in everything is the goal.
What a bizarre post. That's exclusively a you problem if you feel compelled to do that.
Diablo 1 is awesome. I don't do any of the stuff you said.

>>3890082
When my boys are a bit older we are gonna coop Diablo and Diablo 2

>>3888168
Runescape and WoW. Maybe not dead, but they are to me. I look at them nowadays and they're completely unrecognizable. You can never go home.

>>3890130
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XheYpT7-7sE

>>3890082
Lmao so what's the goal then Timmy?

>>3889670
Some groups do take a while, it can happen. I've been in dungeons far long than I would ever want. Back in the day when these were undiscovered dungeons and Raids, they took many hours. You seem like a zoomer.

>>3890158
Playing the game. Do you have aspergers.
I make my character and play through the campaign leveling as I go. When I beat it then I'm done with that character. It's an RPG, not whatever your mind twisted it into

>>3888334
You're in luck, google Project T.A.H.I.T.I Marvel Heroes, and just follow their instructions.

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>make a funny silly game
>make it free for everyone
>game is overrun by unemployed number-crunching turboautists who seethe at literally everything and take shit way too seriously
>fire the funny writer so you can focus on pleasing the angry autists
>all the fun players quit
>now your community is a handful of schizos screaming at each other over retard shit
>game fails
Many MMOs have fallen from grace, but few have fallen farther and in more embarrassing a manner

I tried Ultima online for exactly five minutes.

Four and a half were spent getting signed up, and I was grief killed in 30 seconds.

Quit it immediately after that.

>>3888187
>Wildstar deserves a mention
I dont think it does.
As someone who played the Beta I find it weird that people say "well it was just like oldschool WoW" when it really wasnt.
It had in fact many of the modern blights modern WoW has.

>>3892748
Kudos to your griefer, he had the uncanny sixth sense to instantly spot a faggot.

>>3888168
Auto Assault. There is still nothing like it and NCSoft is still squatting on its corpse and refuses to let anyone do anything with it.

>>3889656
Which private server? I heard a few years ago that some japs were working on one but wasn’t complete at that point. I only ever played a bit of an intro dungeon at a buddies house when the official game was live and always wanted to go back. A few links I see after googling are from back around 2021.

The fact that I’ve literally never seen anyone else talk about Gunshine despite getting killed to (I assume) focus on Clash of Clans is insane to me. I miss browser mmo’s.

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miss this so much

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>>3888168
Pandora Saga. I just liked the way that game looked.

>>3888332
the tragedy of this game is all the pve content no one wants to play because everyone would rather just grind pvp until 50. game is dogshit.