resetting time: lazymaking everything not real: lazywhat else?
FFX-2FF4
>>3908382>the 3rd act ruins everythingthis is 96% of any rpg ever created by men.a more interesting topic would be rpgs enhanced by the third act, like dragon's dogma.
>>3908399>this is 96% of any rpg ever created by men.>a more interesting topic would be rpgs enhanced by the third actThisYou know, this community's tendency to focus on negativity leaves us with shitty discussions. Better to think of games that did it well, like you said.
>>3908399Yeah, most RPGs just drag on longer than they have good ideas for and it's weird that RPG devs make their games worse in a way that takes more time and money.
>>3908399>what do you mean dragons dogma had a good story? This is the most basic surface level paint by numbers babys first heros journey trash imaginable!>bro, trust me bro, the story gets good 80 hours in after the credits roll>it actually doesIm not sure how to fix it, I really liked the twist but getting to that point too far too long and there werent any hints that things were going to suddenly improve, which I guess is partially what made it so effective and unexpected. Still I appreciate the long con as much as anyone but there has to be a better way to pull it off than spending the first half of the game doing boring quests with such a boring basic story.
3rd act in dq11 is fun. end of.
>>3908441it's kind of the curse of play time expectations from back in the 90s, really. reminds me how fantasy books were judged by how thick they were. i think it was partially due to the fact that you just didn't get as many games available, no steam or digital distribution and a very limited indie scene, so you wanted the games you traveled to the mall to buy to last. there were some exceptions though, like dark sun shattered lands didn't overstay its welcome at all.
>>3908515You don't need to "fix" it. The game didn't focus on the story, but the gameplay, systemic elements and exploration. The twist is just a bonus and works because it was unexpected.
>>3908540Poorly executed and just comes across as a dick move where the protag abandons his timeline and friends when they needed him most and they just lost another friend.It actively makes the story and game less interesting, because it undermines the sacrifices made, goes for a generic happy ending over the somber one and more.It's one of the most bafflingly bad decisions ever made for an RPG, right alongside the second half of E33.
never seen a game shilled this hard before. even borderlands spam wasnt like this.
>>3908382BRAVELY.DEFAULT.
>>3908515they do start you off with your heart getting ripped from your body by a giant dragon. that's a pretty huge lead in. the thing that filters people isn't the bad story, it's the stiff progression and thinking they can just go explore like it's skyrim.the story works precisely because it's paced the way it is, from a child of ignorance to an adult of knowledge and will.
>>3908399>a more interesting topic would be rpgs enhanced by the third actNier Automata (route C)
>>3908857I agree, The Return was a self-masturbatory endeavor by Lynch that had no reason to be related to Twin Peaks.
if we count the Ardyn DLC + Novel as Act 3
>>3908797is it really abandoning them if THEY encouraged him to go back? I agree it was really badly executed but by y(our) own argument, the sacrifices aren't undermined- they're still there in the other timeline, the hero may be in a happy ending world at the end of the game but the knowledge is still there and can't be unlearned or forgotten just because the game tries to shoehorn in a happy ending
>>3908399This. It's usually suits.
>>3908399what about legend of dragoon? it stays strong until the very end
>>3909344I still haven't played that. I always hear it's great. I've played nearly every other RPG on PSX, and so many across all consoles. I think I'll get around to emulating Dragoon one day soon to see what the hype is about. An ex of mine loved it and I've always meant to try it out.
>>3908382E33 didn't make everything not real. Even renoir admits the painted people are real, he just doesn't care.
E33 but it ends with maelle getting kicked out of the canvas and running off with the painting. 3rd act is verso convincing her to leave. I dunno
>>3908991Yes. And it's stupid.
>>3908382>resetting time: lazyA true hero saves everyone.>making everything not real: lazyJust because something isn't real doesn't mean it can't matter. You can acscribe the insubstantial more value than reality if you want.
>>3908382the hate on the third act dq11 is forced. the first two play like a tutorial where most bossfights pair you with an immortal npc. you spend most of the time recruitng the party and by the time you finish they are so low level there is nothing interesting to do with them combat wise.
>>3908382I enjoyed the third act of DQXI, but hated how it erased very important character development moments. Serena's specially, in this new timeline you create she never gets her moment to improve and become more confident, walking out of Veronica's shadow.
>>3908540It peaks at the very beginning when you deal with Mordegon at the castle and the world map theme changes to the DQ3 one. The rest of Act 3 is just a soulless rehash and fix fic or anything slightly bad that happened previously to the point where it ruins any off the actual weight those stories had. Serena and Hendrik are my favorie characters and they get completely fucked over by having all of their growth eliminated but that could have been solved if ALL of the party went back to the past instead of just the Luminary. The same regression goes with all of the characters and NPCs who found strength and purpose in Act 2 like he thief who decides to start taking care of the girl whose cat you found. Or the girl hanging around Cole in Last Bastion whose life is objectively, and per her own words, better than when she was living in a slum with no actual hope for the future but a life of miserable poverty.There's the stupid and completely nonsensical application of rules too. Why is Michelle alive again when her death happened well before the point that you're sent back to? The implication is also that the previous timeline is rolled back into the Act 3 one (otherwise how would the characters get deja vu from Act 2) except the game ends with Serenica going back in time to save Erdwin which would mean the entire game is thus erased which isn't the case, especially now with the DQ2 remake stuff with Calasmos.It's a poorly done fix fic for Act 2 (and Act 1) that destroys everything that had been good about the game up to that point for the purpose of a stupid happy ending.
>>3908991>is it really abandoning them if THEY encouraged him to go back?They didn't though. They initially told him that they didn't want him to do it but than acquiesced because they realized it was pointless and that the Hero was going to do it anyway. It's more like they resigned themselves to it and decided to at least encourage him but they weren't necessarily happy or enthusiastic about it.
People have a really weird understanding of how a narrative works, the narrative is a straight line, everything leads into the next thing, everything that happened in that timeline was important, and it further more contributes to reaching the point where they can go back in time to save veronica and like half of the world populationbut people act like instead of getting to see a different alternative that that in absolutely NO way takes away or devalues their experience of act 2, the existence of the third act literally sent them back in time and took away their experience of Act 2 as the playerit's like getting mad at the ending of steins gate or ocarina of time, or really like 90% of time travel media, really makes no sensei can only imagine these same people reaching the end of ocarina of time and screaming while bashing their tv about how terrible an ending it is becauseonly valid complaint about act 3 is the inconsistencies like Michelle, i heard it was because you were supposed to go back to when the village was seemingly burned down but that was way too far back and they didn't have enough time, not to excuse itBut giving us abridged versions of the act 2 character development that the player has already seen and has the same result anyway, in exchange for an alternative route and a finished plot is not one of those valid complaints.
Star Ocean: Till the End of Time.Another We're all actuallysimulations, but virtual people are people too! Like we haven't seen that one done to death before.It's sad, because the previous Star Ocean had a reasonably well thought out third act.
>>3916012the problem with your OoT mention is that you KNEW time travel was in the game and when Link gets sent back to the past it's still after Ganon was defeated so it's not like the entire game didn't happen.The DQ11 Act 3 problem is that it undoes ALL THE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.Or how the out of nowhere bullshit for Expedition 33 basically made the previous acts pointless
>>3916012>but people act like instead of getting to see a different alternative that that in absolutely NO way takes away or devalues their experience of act 2, the existence of the third act literally sent them back in time and took away their experience of Act 2 as the playerBecause it did. It erased everything that happened and it doesn't "bring Veronica back" it just shunts you back to right before her death. It undoes everything in Act 2 (and again, the deja vu shit makes no sense if Act 2 is floating around as a separate timeline).And again, as said, the character development for most of your party gets undone. Hendrik loses all of it and his gaining respect for the Hero by working side-by-side to just go "Well Carnelian said to work with you so I will and I like you now," losing the entire "sword, shield and unswerving companion" thing that was earned for them. Then he just gets it all back in one big rehash of the Jasper battle from Act 2 except Jasper is purified now. Serena doesn't even get that, she loses everything and goes back to being borderline useless both narratively and in battle. It fucking sucks.
