Do you think RPG is one case where becoming more popular has turned against the genre, with games having to be dumbed down for the average player?
>Do you think RPG is one case where becoming more popular has turned against the genre, with games having to be dumbed down for the average player?
>>3911957Again, /v/ & /vrpg/ would have a hissy fit if anyone gives a workable definition of an RPG.
>>3911957Absolutely. Popularity is responsible for the insertion of contemporary social issues, responsible for dialogues being more modern and full of silly quips (which often breaks setting immersion) and it´s responsible for the simplification of game mechanics. Popularity is also responsible for unfocused development and allocation of resources. They are literally focusing on customizing genital size when that time and money could go to creating additional classes, races, spell animations, crafting systems, adding companions, maps, adding a dungeon master mode... i mean there are so many things more important. The sex scenes are not even explicit for fucks sake, heck, some RPGs give you insane customization options only to then become first person experiences. Sadly if the games were not popular presentation suffers considerably. Take CRPGs for example, the pathfinder games have the more complex builds and better mechanics but are less popular than BG3 or DoS so when it comes to other RPG aspects like solving things through dialogues or coming up with the kind of ideas that would work on PnP like using environmental assets they just fall short. I guess that it all comes down to a game offering acceptable tradeoffs.
>>3911957Rpgs and jrpgs seem to be just as easy now in 2026 as they were in 1996. I don’t see much difference besides now they can be even more bloated with menu systems, cutscenes and larger maps/towns/dungeons but the skill or intelligence behind them seems the same.
>>3911985kill yourselfI've had a working definition of RPG for years. I share it with /vrpg/ all the time and see a lot of posters here sharing it on their own. It's a very practical way to get the essence of a videogame RPG while accommodating a wide range of subgenres and understanding where the edge cases are and why they may be harder to classify. And it works on the overwhelming majority of games that people have considered RPGs for the last 50 years. And where it may not, it's usually easy to see why popular opinion may have been mistaken.Also OP is a faggot there's plenty of room for games that appeal all manner of players.
>>3912020>I've had a working definition of RPG for years.A working definition of RPG?Localized here, entirely within /vrpg/?May we see it?
>>3911957Everything becoming popular inevitably ruins it
>>3912021Maybe tomorrow, if no one else posts it before then and this thread hasn't turned into a shitshow full of retards.It's one or two sentences,it's not "game where you play a role"It's not "game where you make choices about the narrative"
>>3912023Truth. I miss Legend of Zelda.
>>3911957i think we keep trying to blame everything besides private equity and costs
>>3911957No, on the contrary. Luckily for you, you can still play unpopular RPGs.
>>3912020>>3912024>I have a workable definition but I can't give it out right now.Then it is likely not a workable definition.
>>3911985The definition of an RPG must come from within, it cannot be given to others. If you haven't grokked the genre to the point where you know an RPG when you see one, then you don't belong here and should simply be mocked.
>>3911957Nah, popularity helped end the obtuse, poorly designed gameplay of a lot of older WRPGs and stopped the retarded hipster circlejerk that killed so many beloved oldfag franchises. That said, it brought in a whole bunch of problems like >>3911992 points out. It's fundamentally a tradeoff, and both have their good points. I sure do wish we could have the good points of both though.
>>3912071Conveniently allowing you to not have to bring anything substantial to the conversation or defend your beliefs in any way.
>>3911957Noooooo, it just happens to be the only thing ever to have not been spoiled by adding normalfags to the mix....
RPGs were never about being smart, just patience to withstand the bullshit
>>3911957100%
>>3912069It definitely is. Funny that you think my wanting to sleep and see what kind of retards and dishonest trolls show up in this thread would have anything to do at all with the viability of a genre definition.
>>3912134>I have many workable definitions of RPG, they just go to other schools, so you can't see them
>>3912136No no it's real it's good I just need to get my 8 hour sleep and avocado sandwich before I prepare my weekly essay for a definition of video game genre. Unless you guys are being mean to me again.
>>3912136>>3912139You guys are just proving you are dishonest shitposters not seriously interested in the topic even a little.
>>3912152No please tell us your definition for the 100th time, this time it will be the definitive definition
>>3912152>I totally was going to tell you, but now I won't. Hmpf. Too bad!
>>3912156If other anons show up and demonstrate genuine interest, I will post it.You should try guessing. I already gave clues.
Hello everyone! I'm here for the first time. I'm pleased to meet you all!Does anyone know where I could get a definition for RPGs?
>>3912023Except for Def Leppard. Mid-late 80s Def Leppard was better than early 80s Def Leppard. I will die on this hill.
>>3911992People are turning into mushy brains in real-time. Even intelligent or educated people are conforming to idiocracy.No dev right in his mind will skip the modern approach to developing games, like>insertion of contemporary social issues, responsible for dialoguesPeople expect this and if a product misses it, it'll castrate sales.
>>3912162Sorry, I must have left the definition in my other pants
>>3912082You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. No one can give you enlightenment, you must find it in yourself.I'll give you a hint though: What makes a hybrid?
>>3912219>People expect this and if a product misses it, it'll castrate sales.No.Game journalists who don't really care about games expect it.Influencers, youtubers, content creators and other parasites of the internet era expect it because it's a lazy way of generating engagement.Trannies, if not already included in the above, expect it because they can't do anything if it isn't related to trannism.The vast mayority of people who play or would play games don't give a shit.
>>3912023It made guns a lot better
>>3912390Guns getting popular made war worse.
>>3911985>Again, /v/ & /vrpg/ would have a hissy fit if anyone gives a workable definition of an RPG.Sorry, but genres aren't scientific constants that we can always precisely measure.We also don't need to do that.Very few people are so autistic that they can't understand how StarCraft is not an rpg, while Baldur's Gate is one.Genres are mostly based on convention, marketing and journalism, and that's good enough. There are a few times when genres work beyond those 3, for example RTS will never refer to a turn based game, since the real time explicitly excludes it, but due to convention every real time game isn't an RTS, even if we associate it with strategy, so a real time and a strategy game like Europa Universalis instead is referred to as Grand Strat because of marketing. Civilization games are TBS games, Turn Based is non-negotiable, and we understand them as Strategy games, but because of journalism we can be more specific and call them 4x games. There are degrees where there's confusion and disagreement, but in broad terms RPG is useful for discussions.
>>3911957i love when people talk about RPGs being "popular" now when FF7 in order to succeed had to recoup a $45 million budget as a console exclusive in the 90s, when $60 for a game was actually a lot
>>3912418Squaresoft uses "FF7"It's super effective!
>>3912424>uses "FF7"*uses "CGI"
>>39124241.5 million sales in first week for the OG
New vegas is actionshit, not an rpg.
>>3911957Absolutely, and more than most genres,I can think of only one genre that suffered more: RTS. The singleplayer campaign RTS died for esport players' sins.
>>3912355>parasites of the internetMeaning gaslighting gatekeepers
>>3911957It's not "dumbing down", it's "Laziness".Devs are too lazy to make proper questlines.Devs are too lazy to make extensive systems.Devs are too lazy to make proper dungeons.Devs are too lazy to make enemies that rely on clever tactics and gimmicks.If they're not "lazy" they are free to develop an extensive dungeon with challenging enemies and release it as a mod or a free DLC to prove that they are not the problem. Until then, I will continue to assume they are simply lazy.
>>3912458Esports were a fucking mistake. Nintendo was right to be opposed to Smash Bros being competitive. If you want to play a competitive game, go play chess and stop shitting up entire genres.
>>3912416>but in broad terms RPG is useful for discussions.It really isn't. We are getting to "including the antonym" levels of bad. The problem is large slice of normalfags want to phase out RPG elements. When people say that Skyrim isn't an RPG, people could still call it action adventure with roleplaying elements or even ARPG but what happens when a niche turn based dungeon crawler isn't an RPG then what fuck is it? A Dungeon Crawler is by definition a type of RPG.>>3912443The same goes for the rest of the ES series.
>>3912572is Starcraft an rpg?
>>3912572That's a general problem with genre, what do?
>>39125851, 2, & 3 disqualifies it.>>3912588The RPG genre is unique as it is both very broad (encompasses a lot of games) and very vague (poorly defined and lacks any hard boundaries).
The moment Square felt the need to release an "Easy Type" version of FFIV is the moment it was basically over for mainstream JRPGs.November 1991.
>>3912572>a mish-mash of mechanical and narrative criteria in the same list implying same priority>Diablo fits the criteria >DnD-based games before 3e don'tsheeeeeeeaash anonany attempt at defining an rpg as a set number of rigid criteria is destined to failyou can make a list of rpg elements and the more boxes a game ticks the more it is an rpg
>>3912612>Diablo fits the criteria>DnD-based games before 3e don'tYou didn't read it if came to that conclusion.>narrative criteria in the same list implying same priorityWhat narrative criteria?
>>3912602The worst of two worlds, lol
>>3912610Easy type?
>>3912602>1, 2, & 3 disqualifies it.Your image doesn't matter in relation to your claim.I said.>but in broad terms RPG is useful for discussions.You claimed.>It really isn't.If Starcraft isn't an rpg, then rpg is a useful term in broad terms for discussion.
>>3912572
>>3912801has that dude ever made a single comic that wasn't retarded?
>>3912810>has that dude ever made a single comic that wasn't retarded?Yes.
>>3912810He made a comic about fucking your mom iirc, it was very fast paced
>>3912814>the internet is srs biznessstill tarded>>3912815i don't think you thought that one through
>>3912849>i don't think you thought that one throughYour mom got ran through
>>3912849>i don't thinkfirst honest thing you've said
>>3912602>The RPG genre is unique as it is both very broad (encompasses a lot of games) and very vague (poorly defined and lacks any hard boundaries).That's very common in classification. You're saying that you can't define a forest because there might be trees in the grassland. You don't believe the desert exists because you're at an oasis. You think there's no such thing as a mammal because a platypus lays eggs. (And be real, you don't need a scientist to classify a platypus for you in order to know that dogs and cats can be classified differently from eagles and snakes).Anyway, the succinct definition I came up, distilled from a much longer and more elaborate one after lots of discussions on /vrpg/, is the following:>In the context of Video Game Genres, an RPG is what you get when you take the abstract mechanics of a tactical wargame and play as a unit on the field rather than a commander on high, and focus on independent adventures rather than military engagement. RPGs are a family of videogames that have evolved from these principles, without evolving so far away as to become a different existing Video Game Genre.This definition is both flexible and practical.>Tactical wargame mechanicsThis is where the stats come from and the decision-oriented gameplay based on them. Too much simulation is a sim, not an RPG. Not enough sim is a puzzle game or a chance game or something else.>Unit on the fieldYou play a single character or a small group of companions, emphasizing their individual development rather than the development of the squad/platoon/army as a whole.>independent adventure rather than military engagementYou aren't automatically part of an army hierarchy.You also aren't doing something non-adventurous like running a dress boutique.Presumes a viable world to adventure in.
>>3912857so he's a quick shot, even with old ladies? lol, what an "own".
>>3912874Didn't dnd derive from a wargame and how did you come up with it?
>>3912878No that suggest many people fucked your mom, your mom's been ran through, meaning she's had many sexual partners.
>>3912874For me, it’s “I know an RPG when I see one”
Behold, a first person shooterIgnore all motherfuckers who think they can create a 100% perfect classification system for something as categorically complex as videogames
>>3912929Pretty muchPeople might say a certain type of game isn't an rpg, but that's usually resolved with a qualifier, like jrpg
>>3912927ah, it's zoomer slang. no wonder it doesn't make sense.
>>3912947Made sense to your mom
>>3912949ok
>>3912947>it's zoomer slangPretending to be an old fag is cringe.
>>3912988oldfag*
>>3912997I think he was saying you were half pretending to be an older gay man, not someone who has posted on 4chan for a long time
>>3912799>>3912874>That's very common in classification. You're saying that you can't define a forest because there might be trees in the grassland. You don't believe the desert exists because you're at an oasis. You think there's no such thing as a mammal because a platypus lays eggs. (And be real, you don't need a scientist to classify a platypus for you in order to know that dogs and cats can be classified differently from eagles and snakes).Do you even know what the word mammal means? Do you know what mammaries means? It doesn't mean live births. Let's now talk about vertebrates. Guess what they have in common?>>3912799>If Starcraft isn't an rpg, then rpg is a useful term in broad terms for discussion.1) What definition is considered good just because it excludes.>This definition of woman doesn't include males who aren't sexpests who enter the women's bathroom thus the debate is over.>>3912929That is intellectual lazy.>>3912944That is just retarded.
>>3913009>Do you even know what the word mammal means?Do you know that Starcraft isn't an rpg?
>>3913034Based on my definition or the mainstream because people would definitely call Warcraft 3 an RPG by the latter.
>>3913039>Based on myNo no no.No one cares about your gay little definition that you've tried to shill on the board before, it's useless, no one respects it and people ignored it the other times you posted it.You should be able to answer the question without following an autistic checklist you made up yourself.Everyone else can.Are you the only person on this board who is so stupid that you can't tell if Starcraft is or isn't an rpg?
>>3913041Nobody cares about the normalcattle definition because it is for marketers. No matter how not an RPG something is if Bethesda or EA says otherwise, it is an RPG.
>>3912988i guess, roleplay is p. cringe in general.
>>3913039Warcraft 3 is not an RPG, although it's moving in that direction.Based on this definition: >>3912874You can see how you can take a wargame model and tweak elements toward an RPG. Characters like Arthas and Thrall take the field as Hero Units but are also the characters nominally in command of the armies you control. As I recall there are occasional scenarios where the hero units operate without the armies.But as a whole, Warcraft 3 is still solidly an RTS game, no matter how often people joke about it being an RPG, because they don't like even the mild shift in focus. Only complete retards are fooled and take that literally. The mechanics are still primarily focused around gathering and resources you use to build structures and disposable units to defend the resources and send at the enemy faction to destroy them (or sometimes complete some other strategic military objective).
>>3912929>>>3912874 (You)>For me, it’s “I know an RPG when I see one”That's basically what I'm getting at when I said:>you don't need a scientist to classify a platypus for you in order to know that dogs and cats can be classified differently from eagles and snakesI would rely on an anon trusting their intuition over a retard who isn't good at language trying to apply logic and definitions.
>>3913065>Warcraft 3 is not an RPG, although it's moving in that direction.Because there is general idea of what is an RPG which gets manipulated marketers and normalfags who muddy the definition of an RPG to move towards the omnigenre. Sportsball, racing games, shooters, & fighting games have stable audience of ni-consolefags so there is no need for the omnigenre. The omnigenre is for Sony movie games designed to be the modern blockbuster where everyone experience, talk about, then forget. For Bethesda, it is the other end of the spectrum where it is intended as a forever game thus the push for horse armor and monetizing mods.
>>3913070>you don't need a scientist to classify a platypus for you in order to know that dogs and cats can be classified differently from eagles and snakes>I would rely on an anon trusting their intuition over a retard who isn't good at language trying to apply logic and definitions.You sound like one of those gigaretards who would say a woman is anyone who make your dick hard because you would sooner admit that you are a faggot than confront the groomer collective.A platypus is a mammal. A whale is a mammal. A whale isn't a fish. Muh conventional wisdom is as retarded as muh wisdom of the masses. The masses are retarded.
>>3913097>A whale is a mammal. A whale isn't a fishGodly Post Of the Whale (GPOW)
>>3912063this
>>3912572>that pic>Action, Puzzle and Adventure as a triangleWhat even is adventure? Adventure games are puzzle/exploration games named after the game Adventure (Colossal Cave Adventure). And if it means adventure in the general sense of the word as an exciting undertaking filled with risk and possible danger, then that overlaps with Action. Unless it just means exploration but why not just write that then.
>>3912622Diablo fits every criteria of that definition. D&D does not. Go back to the drawing board.
>>3911957Yes, but not in terms of difficulty but rather variability.>>3911985RPG is Role-Playing Game - and it is what here is called TTRPG (irl tabletop games).CRPG is an attempt to reproduce mathematical system behind interaction mechanics in PC, while putting as believable crutch to replace playing a role and immersing yourself as your character as possible - mostly through pre-written dialogues (including those with choices) and scripted reactions, partially governed by the aforementioned interaction mechanics.As in tabletop games there are math and DM for main interpretator of both interaction mechanics and players' decisions, so there are math and computer interpretator, that, however, can only recognize and interpret only a limited amount of players' decisions - and only those already programmed in them.Action-RPGs and RPGs with action elements (first are Oblivion, Dark Souls and, lately, Path of Exile, second are Morrowind and Diablo 1-2) are separated by the simple moment - if action is the main gameplay feature and stats, when overleveled, substract action moves variations through making them unnecessary, or if stats (and, to a lesser extension, tactics) are the main gameplay element, but action parts allow to go with wider variety of stats distribution through making some stats unnecessary if used and thus allowing for wider variations.JRPGs are just a combat system of AD&D without any roleplay, so are dungeon crawlers like Wizardry (which, in fact, are proto-JRPGs) - so, basically, ARE NOT RPGs unless you do the roleplay part in your head.Castleroids are Action-RPGs.Mass Effect 1 is on the border between Action-RPG and RPG-Action.
>>3913153>Adventure games are puzzle/exploration gamesYes>named after the game Adventure (Colossal Cave Adventure).No>And if it means adventure in the general sense of the word as an exciting undertaking filled with risk and possible danger, then that overlaps with Action.Yes, it was common to describe a mixture of both as “action/adventure”
>>3913157You mean the real time dungeon crawler when the first criteria was avatar strength not how fast you can spam the potion hotkey.>>3913153>ActionReaction based gameplay.>PuzzleThe tools to solve it in front you.Ex: The door is locked and to unlock it requires solving a slide puzzle.The solutions are more self contained.>AdventureAs in Adventure games.Ex: The door is locked and to unlock it you need ask the owner of the store but the key was stolen by a crow in the fifth floor of an apartment but the apartment owner is a writer who won't leave the cafe forcing you to cut the Internet connection from the cafe but you need boltcutters and instead of just going to the hardware store you decide to steal it from your neighbor who won't give it you so have to make a Rube Goldberg machine in his kitchen to cause a grease fire to distract him from his tool shed.
>>3913177>while putting as believable crutch to replace playing a role and immersing yourself as your character as possible - mostly through pre-written dialogues (including those with choices) and scripted reactions, partially governed by the aforementioned interaction mechanics.> mostly through pre-written dialoguesThis is one of the crucial mistakes that the definition here: >>3912874 aims to correct. The confusion likely comes from people trying to explain what TTRPGs are to people accustomed to Scrabble, Poker and Monopoly. Concepts like taking on a role and working your way through a narrative are major differences to what people normally expect from a tabletop game and serve as a practical, intuitive classifier even though actual RPGs involve a lot more than that. So people become very overly invested in this aspect of an RPG.This is very different from videogames, where taking a role in a narrative is routine and common. An overwhelming majority of (PC and console) video games do this. Consequently, the medium includes other closely-related game genres that require distinction: Interactive Fiction, Simulation, and Tactical wargames. Adventure Games, Visual Novels and CYOAs fit under the Interactive Fiction umbrella. Simulation is an even broader term but relevantly include immersive sims, survival sims and life sims. Immersive sims and survival sims often overlap or hybridize with RPGs, despite being distinct genres.>Dungeon crawlers like Wizardry [...], basically, ARE NOT RPGs unless you do the roleplay part in your head.Here's an example of your definition failing and mine not. You you're clever when in fact that should be a red flag that you've fucked up.- Tactical wargame combat: decision-oriented, stats-oriented, risk-oriented, etc.- Focused on individual units- Focused on Adventure (not mundane life): dungeon crawling mechanics, lots of lore, narrative, world-building.RPG.
>>3913253So what do you call a puzzle/exploration game without any adventuring?
>>3913075I can't cure retardation and obsession about things that don't matter.Marketing people fucking with common usage of terms doesn't mean the terms don't also retain a more stable meaning over time, especially among people actually interested in the relevant genres and use the terms day to day. Marketing fags are often dominated by short-term motives and chase the latest trends. So one day RPGs are hot and you want to call your game an RPG, next day RPGs are toxic and you want to brand as something else. You can be patient and look through the noise.Warcraft 3 is definitely not an RPG. It never has been and never will be. Neither is Starcraft.>>3913097>A platypus is a mammal. A whale is a mammal. A whale isn't a fish. You only know this because you read the work of a scientist and believed it. You haven't ever thought hard about the taxonomy process and that's why the topic of RPG genres confounds you so hard.>Muh conventional wisdom is as retarded as muh wisdom of the masses. The masses are retarded.Aside from the masses being smarter than YOU, you aren't even getting my point right. I'm neither referring to conventional wisdom or wisdom of the masses, I'm referring to intuitive PATTERN RECOGNITION. Men fooled by trannies have defective pattern recognition and are an extreme minority.
>>3913153I'm not that retard with the triangle pic and half-assed 4-point criteria, but when I say "Adventure" is an essential component of an RPG I do mean this:>an exciting undertaking filled with risk and possible dangerAnd the point there is to distinguish RPGs from games like Princess Maker or Kim Kardashian: Hollywood.>then that overlaps with ActionNot really, they are distinct in that adventure is more about the premise and narrative elements where action is more about the gameplay mechanics.RPG = "Wargame mechanics + single unit emphasis + adventure"
>>3913288A puzzle game, or a “point and click adventure game” (“adventure game” was often used as shorthand)
>>3913291>Aside from the masses being smarter than YOU, you aren't even getting my point right. I'm neither referring to conventional wisdom or wisdom of the masses, I'm referring to intuitive PATTERN RECOGNITION. Men fooled by trannies have defective pattern recognition and are an extreme minority.Karma upvote. It is never about being fooled; it is about refusing to give a definitive answer to avoid offending tranoids since they are the current protected class.>You only know this because you read the work of a scientist and believed it.Men can't get pregnant. Being a normalfag isn't about being normal or being average; it is about overvaluing conforming to society's norms.>You can be patient and look through the noise.Everything is shit because of normalfags. Normalfags are so desperate to enjoy something that they will praise anything that they perceive as slightly less shit than what is out currently.>>3913177>JRPGs are just a combat system of AD&D without any roleplay, so are dungeon crawlers like Wizardry (which, in fact, are proto-JRPGs) - so, basically, ARE NOT RPGs unless you do the roleplay part in your head.Isn't the "in your head" shit the cope Bethesdrones make for TES?
>>3913311>it is about refusing to give a definitive answerSpeaking of refusing to give a definitive answer, is Starcraft an rpg?
>>3913314No but that it is like saying most men can't get pregnant and calling people creeps for "caring about people's genitals".
>>3913319>NoGood >>3912572 is proven wrong then.In broad terms RPG is useful for discussion, even if definitions aren't perfectly agreed upon, since you're able to to tell that some games clearly don't belong within the genre.
>>3913326>In broad terms RPG is useful for discussion, even if definitions aren't perfectly agreed upon,Saying 99% of men can't get pregnant isn't particularly brave or accurate. Just saying that 1% can is enough to make discussion worthless.>since you're able to to tell that some games clearly don't belong within the genre.Why are you my judgement to disprove the flaws of the "consensus"? I don't believe any man can get pregnant.
>>3913336>quadrupling down on the retarded and baggage-laden gender analogyYou seem to be in way over your head and are getting desperate. Maybe take a step back and consider that you might be wrong about some pretty basic concepts before digging yourself even deeper.
>>3913368>never made any attempt to address it>Leftist push retarded bullshit; normalfags conform.>Normalfags push non-RPGs as the epitome of RPGs; /v/ & /vrpg/ pretends skyrim is an underrated gem.>Everybody agreed on the worst implementation because less than 1% whined.It is a shit test and you keep failing.
If your character doesn't need to shit then it's not an RPG.
>>3913378Thinking you had to define gender is what made the words twistable by autistics, rather than going by common sense. Everybody knows what a man or woman is, it's definitions that confuse people
>>3913378You're arguing with hallucinations.Like I said, you are in way over your head. You can't even keep track of who is saying what.
>>3913336>Why are you my judgement Because you replied to me with an uninformed claim. I asked you a question that revealed how wrong you were.You were too scared to answer, so you dodged for a while with your gender dysphoria tangents, I kept asking and then you caved and answered.You don't need to continue, you've already admitted you're wrong.
>>3913435No further questions, your honor.
>>3913414Exactly.
>>3913435>Because you replied to me with an uninformed claim.Which want me to disprove a problem with the judgement of the majority using my judgement.>I asked you a question that revealed how wrong you were.Again most people aren't trannies and their sex isn't being contested. >You were too scared to answer, so you dodged for a while with your gender dysphoria tangents, I kept asking and then you caved and answered.Because you don't even seem understand the point.>You don't need to continue, you've already admitted you're wrong.>Trannies are muddy the definition of sex and gender>But you know what is a woman so the definition isn't muddy checkmate>>3913436>>3913441samefag>>3913414>Everybody knows what a man or woman is, it's definitions that confuse peopleIt doesn't matter that everyone knows if nobody is willing to call people out. In fact, the gender vs sex divide is also a way normalfags gave ground to the crazies.
>>3911957>Do you think RPG is one case where becoming more popular has turned against the genre, with games having to be dumbed down for the average player?That absolutely happened to TTRPGs.
>>3913564>if nobody is willing to call people outDefinitions are a calling out. That's the point, once you accept that something needs to be defined, you've entered the trap of pedantry and legalese and endless debates and the triumph of those who can wordplay better or appeal to emotions better. That arena will always be held onto most strongly by passionate nutcases who want to use ideas because they have nothing else.There's a fundamental issue here in that people think meaning is mere linear vocabulary, and this is the root of almost all problems of modernity. Self-consciousness out of control.
>>3913586>Definitions are a calling out.Which I said needs to be done.>That's the point, once you accept that something needs to be defined, you've entered the trap of pedantry and legalese and endless debates and the triumph of those who can wordplay better or appeal to emotions better.Because that is the problem with trannies, their definition for women is too rigid and only includes biological females.>That arena will always be held onto most strongly by passionate nutcases who want to use ideas because they have nothing else.Ah a vacuum. The perfect way to keep power in check is never seeking it and never setting boundaries. People only started taking land when draw up border.
>>3911957No, because the most popular RPGs of all time (DOS2/BG3) are insanely much more complex than literally any predecessor crpg.
>>3913676>baiting this hardBG3 is targeted squarely at the casual audience. It's based on the most simplified and dumbed-down version of D&D yet, and featured a marketing campaign aimed squarely at faggots and women. It's the "critical role" nu-DnD for people who don't like DnD.
>>3913681And yet it's still one of, if not the single most mechanically complex RPG ever made. Curious that.
>>3911957Yes. But it's only one example of it happening, so at least there's the consolation that it isn't unique. And we also have the benefit of those other examples to teach us how to address the problem: gatekeeping works. Keep the pollution out, then you have no problem.
>>3913964Not possible under capitalism. You have to remove the profit-seeking motive first.
>>3912157The faggiest of faggot answers.Faggot.
>>3912136Read>>3912139Until you drop dead in one of your kewl schewls
>>3911957>Behold, a woman!
>>3914378>Plato later appended his definition to include “with two X chromosomes”
>>3913968>if you aren't disingenuous shitposting nihilist asshole at all times it means you're a fagThe definition was posted here and nobody has refuted it: >>3912874
>>3912898Yes, D&D was derived from chainmail.This is not a coincidence, but the definition itself is not specifically about the origin of a given game. It's about the nature of the mechanics. The way wargames use statistical abstractions to model tactics and warfare forms the basis of RPG mechanics for combat and dungeon crawling.>how did you come up with it?I started with a much longer definition and had arguments about it on /vrpg/. The more I worked on trying to explain my points, the more I noticed redundant elements that could be combined with or implied by others. Eg I used to spend a lot of time trying to explain what makes for a good "RPG Game World," how game world is different from setting, and how an RPG game worlds tend to differ from action game worlds. I used to call it "decision-oriented gameplay" and explain what that means, which required a lot of specific qualifiers to distinguish from other decision-oriented games that aren't RPGs. I eventually realized most of these things are implied by the simple combination of 1st-person adventuring on a wargame foundation, so left them out.
>>3914456>the more I noticedAs other anons pointed out correctly
>>3914541Not usually.Sometimes, but why do you even think it matters?Reflects severely warped mindset.
>>3914541Kek>*/vrpg/ calling him a retard for years*>hmm i notice flaws in my argumentation
>>3914543I am finally nooticing>>3914542>Reflects severely warped mindset.I keep nooticing>warped mindsetBig words, eh, bud?
>>3914378Really the heart of the issue.More people should think about Diogenes.
>>3913596>Which I said needs to be done.I'm saying you're entering their battle by doing so. Definitions are a weakness to be exploited, because you've accepted that something NEEDS to be defined, when it should be self-evident.I don't think you're are going to get what I'm talking about.
>>3914552Honestly itt, people are acting like the point is definitions are gay when the tranny issue comes from the whole recursive definition>a woman is someone who identifies as a womanvs the straight forward definition>an adult female humanPeople honestly think that>an RPG is a game with the characteristics of an RPGis a strong position.
>>3911957Is it even a question. How do people not notice how every how brain dead normie games are. And that shit has been spilling into rpgs for quite some time. Bioware hit the sweet spot of normieshit and dungeon and dragon DM nerds but that ship sailed a long fucking time ago.
>>3912081worlds biggest avowed fan right here
Sword and dragon. Amazing huge and swift buckler. Dodge across the wizard pit. And don't forget the goblin !!
>>3917850nothing is sadder than posting all day on a website you hate. poor kids.
>>3911957i felt that about 20 years ago
>>3911957Maybe, but what bothers me more is that in the pursuit of being more "cinematic", most RPGs now don't let you oneshot bosses in hilariously broken ways anymore because that ruins the narrative impact or something.
