>>3920492
Pretentious

>>3920492
ds2 has the same issues that all the fromsoft games have had.

>>3920492
I genuinely don't get it either.

Like, my first impression o the game was "oh, cool, the game is more responsive and snappier to control than the first", because it is, and I love that, but people act like this isn't the case and the controls are somehow horrible and laggy or some bullshit. 90% of 'criticism' of the game is like this, where people trash it for stuff that's either blatantly worse in previous game, or make up shit that's outright false (like, I've seen people claim that the woods enemies are both respawning and completely invisible).

>>3920547
it's because poise stopped being the instawin easymode strategy

>>3920492
People do address the actual issues, it's that you fucks scream "FILTERED" because you refuse to engage in meaningful discussion.

>>3918593 has actual meaningful discussion about DS2 and it's flaws, like the effects of ADP being poorly conveyed to the player

>>3920593
FILTERED

>>3920492
>people just poison the well of the discussion with shit that's either blatantly false or stems from the roots of having a skill disorder
Which issues are those?
>>3920547
It literally isn't. Especially on the PC version where by default you don't have 360 degree movement, it has rigid snap points.

>>3920618
>Especially on the PC version
I knew it. This seems to be why people actually feel the controls are dodgy, the people complaining played it on PC where it seems to actually have locked movement. Otherwise, yes, the game objectively has less lag and freer/faster movement, and this is definitely the case on the PS3.

>>3920593
2 at least makes some actual attempt to say that ADP does affect your evasion. 1 says absolutely nothing whatsoever about iframes at all, even that they exist, and plenty of people played through the whole game via shields and high poise armor without even knowing that dodging gives any invincibility at all. It's completely hypocritical nonsense to complain about shit that 2 did that 1 didn't even bother to at all.

>>3920849
>1 says absolutely nothing whatsoever about iframes at all
This is a dumb bait thread, isn't it

>>3920492
A lot of the criticism is valid (like the shitty boss fights) however I'll never understand the complaint for ADP, enemy "spam" and the area design. First of all you don't need to level that stat, you can dodge everything pretty easily even with a low number. Second, even if the game has more enemies than the first game, that doesn't mean you can't pull most of them into a line or a small pack. And third I don't see how a poorly connected map makes the game worse, it never broke my immersion personally.

>>3920849
>1 says absolutely nothing whatsoever about iframes at all, even that they exist,

because your roll type was your iframes. Same as in Demon's Souls. Which is why the ADP crap is hated because it's an extra, unnecessary, step

>>3920849
is this bait?

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>making a new thread because you're THAT assblasted people rightfully criticized the black sheep game

>>3921047
yep,it's sad that tolls want this game to be seen as perfect and flawless and failed in >>3918593

>>3920492
It has a bunch of unfun bosses.

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miyazaki fanboys are well known virgin homosexuals that lust after Gwyindolin and Miquella, of course they would hate the only entry in which everyone is 100% straight because he didn't work at itShanalotte is most stacked level-up lady btw

>>3920864
>>3920905
>>3921016
Lol the retards are now going to act like what I've said isn't true. Please explain how you actually knew that iframes both existed and were tied to rolling animations. Like seriously. Did you actually go and systematically test this stuff yourself? How? And why then? Why would you know to perform such a test in the first place? Do you think it's common for a given person do this and do you expect them to? How many iframes do you think you get off a back-step dodge vs a regular roll?

Or did you all just read/watch this shit online like I expect is the case? Please give me actual answers.

>>3921103
>Did you actually go and systematically test this stuff yourself? How? And why then? Why would you know to perform such a test in the first place? Do you think it's common for a given person do this and do you expect them to? How many iframes do you think you get off a back-step dodge vs a regular roll?
Thanks for the insight on midwit thought process, that's fascinating

>>3920905
I think if you want to be a dodge faggot you should have to invest in some kind of stat like def chads do.

The biggest problem with DS2 is you get too many fucking souls. It's so easy to hit soft cap in half a dozen stats and still have enough money left over to buy as many HoT items as you can carry and make you functionally invincible. Every character becomes the same.

>>3921118
See, you're not addressing this shit at all and just posturing because it's the only way to seem not in the wrong.

Answer me, how you know how iframes work? How do you know how many frames a given roll gives you and how they differ? Actually, also, what are all the break points that alter how fast you recover from your rolls? Can you tell me? Can you actually, seriously answer me on these? This isn't a troll, this is "prove to me that you aren't retarded".


https://darksouls.fandom.com/wiki/Rolling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipqrW_nJKf0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22jsJ8D2WKw

There's no difference in iframe length for any of the normal rolling animations, at all. Conversely, there are several points between animation changing equip weights that affect how fast you dodges recover.


Give me an honest response that isn't idiotic, then look at the spoiler. Can you dispute any of it?

>>3921132
>There's no difference in iframe length for any of the normal rolling animations
The old iframe numbers that went around were bogus? I did not know that. That's some enduring misinformation.

>>3920492
>why does it filter retards so god damn hard? (they probably didn't even play the game, but played SOFTS LMAO)

DS2 is very unique in that it's not just meant to be hard. It is designed as player vs developer and the developer hates your fucking guts. Yes, scholar ruined the game and I will not elaborate on why.

ds2 lovers are literally insane

>>3921103
you are missing the point.

It's how DS2 fucked up a mechanic that worked just fine in DS1 and Demon's

>>3921126
>The biggest problem with DS2 is you get too many fucking souls.
That's my favorite part. Especially since they made stamina and equip load separate states. Leveling in DS3 is a chore.

>>3921420
DS2 lovers are people who started with the 2 and act like they are ds purists.

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I don't think I've ever seen someone shit on this game who wasn't a complete actual sub human. I don't even like the game, but nobody ever addresses it's real issues, people just poison the well of the discussion with shit that's either blatantly false or stems from the roots of having a skill disorder. (Skill issue, as it's more commonly known)

>>3921579
>nobody ever addresses it's real issues
I have done so at length so many times that I no longer have any interest in doing so. It simply has a legion of absolutely delusional and retarded fanboys, none of whom are worth the time or effort of engaging.

>>3921584
>It simply has a legion of absolutely delusional and retarded fanboys, none of whom are worth the time or effort of engaging.

just like Dark Souls 2 and Dragon Quarter

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>>3921584
>>3921688

>>3921702
how about an ACTUAL counter criticism instead of hiding behind memes and personal attacks

>>3921915
How about an actual criticism instead of
>It's different so bad
or
>What do you mean I can't spam the instant win button

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ok but have you farmed those mad warriors, anon?

>>3922333
I once farmed heide armor. I hated ds2.
I never farmed armor afterwards. I began to love ds2.

>>3922333
Making enemies perma-despawn after you kill them was legitimately interesting and maybe not the best design choice really helped set DS2 apart as something unique. Making weapon/armor drops as low or lower than Demons and DS1 while keeping that perma-despawn was fucking cruel and part of the reason I think every good decision made in DS2 was done on accident.

>>3920492
Dark Souls 2 is a vastly superior game to Dark Souls 1 from a pure mechanical perspective.
>powerstancing gives purpose to dual wielding weapons by vastly expanding your moveset
>fire bombs properly scale with fire adjustment stats
>nerfs shield stability which forces greatshield turtlers to engage with the game
>pyromancies require stats instead of being a widely available cheese
>spell uses can be restored through consumable items
>poison and bleed build up scales with dex
>deprived is properly SL1 with the lowest stats
>every starting class can fast roll in their starting equipment
>can buff infused weapons
>three loadout slots per hand
>four ring slots
>bows and crossbows made viable
>basic healing miracles can heal other players
>dark damage type added
>item discovery unrelated to humanity
>spices can alter high level spell requirements
>elemental urns to cover every element
>durability made a legitimate concern for weapons
>covenants have tangible rewards for every single rank
>additional New Games add different enemy placement, loot, and unique spells
I could go on. Dark Souls 1 has better environmental storytelling, art direction, and atmosphere but that's all it has going for it.

>>3922135
The D Counter is a legitimate criticism for a BoF game punishing you for using Dragon mode

>>3922356
>Dark Souls 2 is a vastly superior game to Dark Souls 1 from a pure mechanical perspective.

ADP exist and destroys your shitpost

>>3922445
>being able to mechanically alter your eye frames from a stat is somehow bad
Lol.

>>3922486
>alter your eye frames
But what of my lenses? Are you some circa 2010 hipster slattern?

>>3922486
Don't forget it also changes how quickly you use items and recover from poise. It's mandatory in every build.

>>3922486
when DS2 added an unnecessary extra step, it's bad

>>3922537
and yet the game did fuck all to stress "LEVEL UP ADP OR YOU WILL HAVE A BAD TIME"

Game sucks, how was I supposed to know leveling my HP and Stamina stats is mandatory and that they boost my HP and Stamina?
Game never explained that and it just added an extra unnecessary step

>>3922445
>The D Counter is a legitimate criticism for a BoF game punishing you for using Dragon mode

>NO I DON'T WAN TO GET GOOD AND PLAY STRATEGICALLY

That's the entire game. It being different from the other games isn't bad. This is you sucking.

>>3922708
>and yet the game did fuck all to stress "LEVEL UP ADP OR YOU WILL HAVE A BAD TIME"
Yeah it's not like the game shows what potential gains you get from stat boosts.
>Huh I wonder what this stat that raises agility does!

this is just one dude samefagin... No one likes ds2

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I HAVE A +5 SMELTER ULTRA GREATSWORD NOW COME HERE YOU GALLOPING MOTHERFUCKERS I'M NOT AFRAID OF YOU ANYMORE AHAHAH

>>3920492
DS2 forces you to engage with enemies in a methodical and intentional fashion, and punishes players for attempting to sprint past everything straight to the boss. Players that started with DS1 and never played Demon’s Souls end up getting filtered by DS2 because DS1 is by far the easiest title in the series and allows you to skip a majority of the game with ease due to master key, outright ignore challenging mobs, and become overpowered on virtually any build as fast as you want. Strength build? Pick bandit, grab zweihander at firelink, level a bit to two hand and the game is trivialized. Dex? Kill undead merchant, grab his katana and the game is trivialized. The fact you can instantly dive into the Catacombs, kill the easiest joke boss in the game for an obese 20k souls AND instantly get access to a smith who can infuse your weapons with fire just adds to how absurdly easy the game is if you know where things are. Oh, also killing Pinwheel maxes your flask count on top of all of this. And again, all of this can be effectively done within the first 10 minutes of play. For DS2, your character is going to suck for most of the early game and there aren’t instant short cuts to easy power. If you want to be good then the game forces you to invest slowly over time. DS1 lovers think DS2 is bad because they don’t want to learn how to be good at the game and would rather be handed overpowered equipment from the start and ignore enemies; in other words, game bad because hard.

>>3921078
I'd gladly get stabbed and burned to death by chaos knights for them :'(

>>3922537
>recover from poise
No games fag spotted. Poise is dogshit in DS2 and has been rendered an entirely worthless mechanic.

dark souls 1-3 are all great games. i may finally give demons souls a proper shot on rpcs3. its a shame the only way to play bloodborne on pc is by emulating it. same with demons souls

elden ring is okay but open world is a meme and objectively makes the game worse

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>>3925127
While im not a framerate fiend, playing DeS in 60 FPS feels very good and also you can remove the nasty blur effects the game has to really soak in the atmosphere. After playing it myself i can see why they make comparison with it and DS2 the most and hey, i like both quite a bit!

>>3921126
They also made teleporting available since the start, so the best play is always to teleport back to Majula to level up because you are showered with souls, then teleport back, making an easy game a chore to play too. The no bonfire or no teleport playthroughs make the game so much better, its insane.

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>>3924917
which is pretty much what will happen if you reallt want that stupid sword anyway

>>3920492
Because DS2 could have been a 10/10 game just by cloning DS1 mechanics and spending all the effort on creating new levels and bosses in the same vein as 1. It geta fair criticism for pointless changes that some like and some don't.

>>3924907
So many problems with this retarded post, but the most retarded part one is the fact that people who fell in love with Dark Souls weren't running past every enemy or using the Master Key to skip content.
>Pick bandit, grab zweihander at firelink, level a bit to two hand and the game is trivialized.
Not true. This is behavior practiced by someone who already knows the game and for whom the game is already "trivialized" because they got gud, and they are playing it again because the game itself is fucking fun to play. Zweihander is not an overpowered weapon, especially if you're wielding it 2-handed. That means you're sacrificing use of a shield meaning you're sufficiently good at dodging and evasion to not need one. That means you've already mastered key skills to make the game easy.
>Kill undead merchant, grab his katana and the game is trivialized.
Again, such a stupid thing to say. Uchigatana is even more overrated than the zweihander and Ornstein can stab you in the ass as you try to dodge Smough's giant hammer charge no matter what gay ass weapon you're holding.
>The fact you can instantly dive into the Catacombs, kill the easiest joke boss in the game for an obese 20k souls
Again, this is something only done by players who have already mastered the game and are having fun with it. The reality is that Dark Souls' (ridiculous) reputation for being hardcore happened in part BECAUSE you could go to the catacombs immediately. There's no guardrails stopping newfags from wandering into the catacombs and having their asses kicked by enemies strong against non-blunt weapon types and who literally fucking come back to life a few seconds after you beat them.

>>3925343
Your premise contradicts itself because you’re equating noobs barely familiar with the series with fans of DS1 who’ve played the game enough to enjoy it. In other words you’re intentionally misunderstanding the subject and have failed to tackle the criticisms laid out in any meaningful manner; instead choosing to ignore the topic entirely. To put it simply, you’re engaging in whataboutism. Dark Souls 1 is by far the easiest title in the entire series and the game is a complete joke compared to every title that followed it.

>>3925481
The post I quoted claimed the game was 'trivialized'
I assume you are conceding that was incorrect and that you actually meant to compare it to other games in the series only, in the most half-assee and lazy way possible.
In that case, concession accepted.

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DS1 fags are seething because DS2 is harder to exploit.

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>>3920492
I'm playing it right now for the first time and the level design is simply superior to the first. Those little ambushes where a bunch of enemies try to gank on you are so good, as they force to use the environment and some strategical positioning. Also there are many little gimmicks in the levels that keeps them interesting and distinct from one another, like the bells in Undead Crypt and the spitting statues in Black Gulch and The Gutter. The maps are also on average better than Ds1's as they are much more sprawling with more interesting stuff to find (the expanded item list helps with it a lot).
The only maps i disliked so far are Shrine of Amana, Heide Tower of Flame and Dragon Shrine.

It has a "clunkier" feeling which i can't explain exactly but it just feels like you can react instantly to things. But it's unplayable on PC without mods, which is a travesty considering how old the game is already, so i just asked for a refund and pirared it.

>>3927536
(...)but it just feels like you CAN'T* react instantly to things.

>>3924907
I wasn't going to, but since someone else pointed out how stupid this post is, I'll just expand one false claim made, and point out two more.
>Hurr Durr weapons cheese
Start cleric. Congrats, you have a weapon that trash most of the enemies in this game with the mace's blunt dmg since most enemies are weak to blunt dmg, or they don't resist it. You can also get high faith, which means lighting miracles the other dmg type that most enemies are weak to, don't resist, or can be made to be weak to by forcing them through water. And if you want the best of both worlds make a lighting mace. Don't want to do that, kay no problem. Get a rapier, max it out, make it dark, then buff it with dark weapon. Congrats you now have the best weapon in the game.

>kill the easiest joke boss in the game for an obese 20k souls
Yeah it's not like you can't go to black gulch and kill the rotten just as easily for 47k souls. And you definitely can't bonfire ascetic the black gulch bonfire to go into ng+ and respawn the rotten and then kill it again for 94k souls this time.

>Oh, also killing Pinwheel maxes your flask count on
No it doesn't. all killing pinwheel does is it allows to kindle bonfires to have +5 more flask charges when you rest at that bonfire. All other bonfires are unaffected.

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>>3927569
Wait, is the Rotten considered an easy boss? I died a bunch of times to him, especially because of the bullshit AoE

>>3927829
He's so easy that the community made him the farming boss to grind for souls. Get a rapier with the leo ring and go to town next time you fight him.

>>3927569
Technically, killing Pinwheel gives you an item that allows you to kindle a bonfire upwards of three times, granting you 20 Estus Flasks whenever you sit at the bonfire at the cost of a easily obtainable item that can be farmed for. Rite of Kindling should not have been in the game.

>>3928168
It still makes no sense to call out the Rite of Kindling as a negative compared to a game with even more easily obtainable infinite healing.

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little bitches can't handle mobs with very high aggro, they just want to rush from boss to boss

>>3928242
Both are bad is my point, I wasn't the anon you were originally replying to.
Ds2s lifegems are infinite and too easily obtainable, but are nowhere near as effective as Ds1s Estus, and they aren't even as effective as Ds2's Estus. Looking at them by themselves, Lifegems seems like a no-brainer for the worst of the two. But when you actually consider all that goes into it?
One of the very first bosses you can kill, who also happens to be amongst the easiest, that you can quite easily suicide run to get to, drops an item that you never lose. With this item, you go to any bonfire you want and sacrifice an uncommon item that is infinitely farmable up to three times. This grants the player 20 Estus Flasks that will always be given freely when resting at the Bonfire, and theoretically you can do this to every bonfire you come across. The game was made with 5 to 10 charges, so the distance between each bonfire is not that great, which leaves the player with excessive amounts of healing for a short level. To add on to that, we have Fire Keeper Soul's, which increase the effectiveness of Estus Flash charges to heal you even more per sip. This toppled on with how strong Poise is means the player can very easily tank the damage and out-heal the enemy, coming out on top. There's also a small thing we can ponder which would be that you can, and probably will, run past the enemies to get straight to the boss. Humanity can also be used, which is immediate, can't be knocked out of, a full heal that will continue to heal even if you take more damage, and can be easily farmed. There's a reason PvPers had large amounts of it.

char limit

>>3928242
>>3928492
Ds2's Estus requires repairing with one rare item at a time, limiting how many charges the player will have for an unknown amount of time. This could be made worse if a player doesn't explore and never finds the rare item, as it is a fixed amount per playthrough. It takes longer to swig and the levels are generally longer between each bonfire. A lot of shields in the game, especially in the beginning, do not offer 100% DR and they also introduced ADP, so rolling is going to be a bit harder, and finally they have more enemies at once. Considering all of this, it makes sense why Lifegems would be introduced to the game. You find a few laying around and you can buy 10 from the merchant Melentia in Forest of Fallen Giants. However, the player needs to exhaust her dialogue and defeat the Last Giant before she will move to Firelink Shrine in order to sell infinite lifegems that now cost more than before, to which there's a good chance a player won't even get access to those any time soon. Lifegems can be interrupted if you take damage, the healing can be stopped if you take damage, it heals less than the standard charge in Ds1 and cannot be spammed as effectively as Ds1s Estus flasks.

I'm not saying Lifegems are perfect, because as I said, you get too many of them. A lot of mechanics from Ds2 are direct results of trying to fix problems in Ds1. Have to repair your Estus because it was too easy to max it out, too easy to spam roll so they introduce ADP, too many different upgrade stones and pointless runs to blacksmiths so they streamline it. But I think a lot of players exaggerate lifegems and downplay Estus in Ds1. Either because they don't remember, never found out, got their opinions from a YouTuber, or just shitposting.

Sorry if this is jumbled, I had to fit it in the char limit. also I doubt anybody is going to read it, but eh, oh well. at least it lets me sort my own thoughts for future reference

Love the gameplay, hate the world and lore.
Simple as.

The issue is it is obvious low effort cash-in like a lot of '2' games. Areas and enemies are all non-descript. The only thing I remember about it is the boss where it is filling with water. I didn't realize that was happening so that was kind of an oh fuck moment.

>>3922354
Those toxin dart guys that made blighttown a pain in the ass don't respawn.

>>3922356
Best argument why it sucks all right here.

>>3928492
>>3928495
You hilariously undervalue and overprice lifegems my guy. Yes as a 1to1 a basic lifegem heals slightly and yes slightly, look it up, a basic lifegem heal 50 ponits less than a basic estus , but here's all the positives.
1) You can move and continue to move from start to finish while using it.
2) Even with maxed adp a lifegem is faster than estus always.
3) They stack, and since you use them faster than estus, a better heal is always to pop 2 lifegems than it is to drink from estus
4) they're cheap has hell. I don't know why you're trying to make them sound like you can't afford them ever. Even on my first playthrough of ds2 where I died constantly i was running around with 30-99 lifegems on me.
5) I've only been talking about the basic lifegem, the other tiers heal more, comes with all the benefits of the basic lifegems, one of the higher tiers can be sold by the same merchant that sells the basic lifegems, and the last tier can be farmed.

Lifegems are ds2 biggest exploit and it's funny to see people cope that they're not.

>>3928544
I think you’re focusing on Lifegems in isolation and not how healing actually functions in the heat of the moment. Yes, Lifegems stack,move slowly, and plentiful later. That makes them strong for managing attrition across a level. But healing strength in this series isn’t just total HP restored, it’s how reliably you can recover inside a dangreous moment.

In Ds1, Estus is burst healing that completes quickly and reliably once upgraded, and poise often lets you finish the animation even when you’re under pressure. On top of that, Humanity is an instant full heal that can’t be interrupted and can be farmed. That combination makes recovery inside combat very consistent once you understand the systems.

In Ds2, Lifegems heal over time and lose value if you take damage. Stacking them improves efficiency but also requires longer survival without interruption. They work best when you already have space, not when you’re trying to recover from a mistake in active pressure. That’s a different role than Ds1’s burst healing. So saying “pop two Lifegems instead of using Estus” only works if the encounter gives you time to benefit from gradual healing. In many combat situations, immediate recovery is more reliable than delayed recovery. That’s why I don’t think Lifegems outperform Ds1’s healing system in practical survival scenarios. Also, if farming or availability is part of the argument, dS1 has farmable Humanity which is dramatically stronger than any Lifegem and both games have ways to trivialize healing once you know where to look. In fact, we could take this even further if we consider how armor works in these two games.
Think about the times you popped a lifegem, got hit before it fully healed, and then had to pop even more just to offset that.
I’m not saying Lifegems are balanced perfectly, I neverm ade that claim. I’m saying both games have healing systems that can break difficulty once understood, just in different ways.

all these games are boring shit where the only way you can possibly enjoy them is being a masochistic zoomer that likes getting pegged (literally and even metaphorically).

>>3920492
>>3920547
The game wasn't Dark Souls 1: Again
That's really what maybe 90% of the criticisms of Dark Souls 2 boiled down to. And in all frank fairness, I think it shouldn't have been called Dark Souls 2 since especially pre SOTFS it was 10000% more of a King's Field game than it was a Dark Souls game. Most of the mechanics and level design ethos it brought back that made people seethe were from other KF titles. The original plot for the prototype that got cut up and worked into Dks2 originally started as a script for KFV.
Anyway, accordingly, the game punishes you immensely for being a retard that can't engage with its mechanics while rewarding you immensely for making full use of the game's systems. The way most people played Dark Souls 1 at the time was to engage with the game's mechanics as little as humanly possible, which they saw as "gitting gud" which is why it took until 2022 for people to realize en masse that consumable items were really strong when used right because a streamer made a viral "challenge" run.

>>3928553
In Dark Souls 2, if you're not a mouth breathing retard, you double sippy your estus and have at least the poise to finish your animation or the ADP and positioning to get your animation off before you take a hit. This gives you a healing burst almost as fast as the near instant healing of Dks1 estus. But stupid faggots (speaking imperially here) never want to actually adapt and cry because they might situationally have to use 2 estus charges instead of 1 in a game where your healing items are effectively infinite through the various lifegems, miracles, and other methods of HP restoration.
Dark Souls 2 rewards you the most when you have both a functioning brain and a quick wit to recover from mistakes or take on intimidating or unforseen situations. For example, a lot of people complain about the Smelter Demon's AoE DoT but very few sat down and thought to themselves
>Man you know what'd help? Flash Sweat
>Or the flame quartz ring
>Or one of the regenerating sunlight spells
>Or regularly popping lifegems
>Or using Grass so I have the stamina to hit and run or barrage at a distance with spells/miracles/hexes
They seethe and spit and cry
>UGGGGGGGGHHHHHH wtf I can't dodge roll through this DoT? What the heck??? I can't just huddle inside his asshole and press r1 over and over again to win what the hell man this boss fucking SUCKS
then turn around and complain about the boss fights that do unironically let them do that because they were easy and boring
As a germane aside, I wish Gluttonous Demon had a way bigger arena and was a bit faster, or maybe had adds, so that you could take advantage of his feasting mechanic where he stops to eat hollows if you bother shooting them down from the ceiling

>>3927371
>DS2 is harder to exploit
LMAO LMAO... Brother i literally killed last boss with poisoned daggers KEK

>>3928572
DS2 feels more like an old adventure game than a rollslop action rpg and this is why it's so good. The seemingly axcessive amount of souls and the spice mechanic allow you to have a lot more freedom on your chracter build and experiment with a lot more things instead of being a specialist in one thing, and also the vast roster of very useful consumable and throwable items help conveying this. It reminds me a lot of Heretic II, since you're often being chased by a crowd of enemies and have to use every trick in the book to beat them instead of just roll/block/attack.

>>3928572
It's wrong to say that DS2 is flawless, because it does have actual problems and some criticism is well deserved and factual.
But why are the vast majority of people who hate on the game so fucking bad at it? Is it ragebait?

I'm hungry for some Dark Souls 1 or 2

What's a fun build/weapon in your opinion?

>>3928643
in 2, the Fist build was my favourite
get that muthafuggin BONE FIST

>>3928581
>have to use every trick in the book to beat them
Or just hide behind a pillar because their tracking is dogshit. The AI in DS2 is the worst in any Fromsoft game.

>>3928643
Quality build with halberd is the only build that matters in any dark souls game

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>>3928643
dex/faith pyro in DS1
str/adp estoc powerstancer in DS2
both with min equip load of course. Armor is for pussies

>>3928495
>Estus requires repairing/Have to repair your Estus
>defeat the Last Giant before she will move to Firelink Shrine
Are you ChatGTP?

I otherwise agree with a lot of what you're trying to say.

>>3928544
>Lifegems are ds2 biggest exploit and it's funny to see people cope that they're not.
But I do very much agree with this. I'm actually shocked that so many people go one and on about so many menial or even positive aspects of the game, but rarely focus on by far the biggest gameplay downgrade it offers. Having to get individual estus shards was one of the biggest improvements the game gave the series, but this is almost completely offset by returning to farmable healing items along side them.

I think I just got the first time player experience in DS2. I'm so used to the controls of another game so I SUCKED. Died 5 times in the forest.

Regarding the discussion about ADP, I leveled it to 9 and rolling seems fibe now. Beat the pursuer no problem.

>>3928735
I didn't like halberd twohanded, but now that I got the STR to use a greatshield with it, I notice I get to poke with it too. I'm deciding between it and the standard spear, which seems awesome too. Destroys iron turtles with the sweep strike.

>>3928567
>The game wasn't Dark Souls 1: Again
Right, because that's what it should have been. It was the ONE opportunity to take the wildly successful foundation popularized by Dark Souls and change NOTHING but the levels, enemies and boss weapons. They could have poured all their effort into new content and done virtually nothing with the engine, and they'd have delivered another hit that everyone would have liked (even the faggots who subsequently became DS2 contrarians).

You wouldn't want to pull that shit 3-4 times in a row. For the 3rd game it would totally make sense to tweak mechanics, address specific issues and try out new ideas. Rule of Three is a centuries-old meme for a reason. But for the first release after a massive unexpected resounding success? Just prove you can do the same thing again.

>>3928757
What do you mean? In Ds2, you find Estus Flask Shards and have to bring them to Emerald Herald who then increases your charges, no? And you do have to beat the Last Giant and exhaust all of Melentia's dialogue to send her over to Majula.

But yeah, Lifegems are a problem. Personally I don't think it's the biggest downgrade, I'd give that to the lighting, due to being forced to work on last gen consoles.

>>3928759
I whine like a bitch every time i see them give a halberd or a polearm that ridiculous "spin2win" move.

>>3928581
The souls aren't even excessive. The game has more stats to invest into than Dark Souls 1; proportionally you're basically only gaining as many extra levels as you have extra stats to choose to invest into or not. I could go on a whole tangent about how retarded niggers are about ADP but tl;dr if you want to be a heavy armor CHAD who never rolls, you have no reason to invest in ADP pretty much ever. It's a stat for modulating the way you play the game.
>>3928585
Sure, it has issues, but most people are just mad at it for reasons completely unrelated to those problems. For example: >>3928766
This faggot. Speaking of, kill yourself retard. Stupid apes like you are the FROM equivalent of CODtards or ACbabs who eat up their yearly formulaic sloppa. You're a newnigger too because Demons Souls was already a massive success for a PS3 exclusive, and Dark Souls 1 was barely any different from it in most regards. They already did exactly what you wanted and it only reinforces my notion that if they called it something other than Dark Souls 2 you cretins would have loved it. You don't even dislike the game because you have a valid criticism, you're just seething that FROM didn't want to make the exact same game three times in a row.

>>3928775
>seething, insecure DS2 contrarian immediately descends into fits of incoherent rage when faced with a simple, common sense argument.
Demon's Souls was a success, but not success on the level of Dark Souls 1.
> you're just seething that FROM didn't want to make the exact same game three times in a row.
New levels, enemies and boss weapons means it's not the exact same game. Not sure why DS2 contrarians have so much trouble understanding this concept. It's like you're so insanely assmad that people don't love DS2 that you just cannot think straight about anything.

>>3928775
>you have no reason to invest in ADP pretty much ever
ADP raises your poise. If you're going with a tank build it is, again, very necessary to go with ADP. It is a requirement for every build type.

>>3928766
>they'd have delivered another hit
AFAIK DS2 sold well.

>>3928780
>It raises your poise!
That's not how it works. Between the lowest of Endurance and ADP it raises your Poise by 0.3 per point from 1-30, 0.2 from 31-50, and 0.1 from 51 to 98. It's a waste of stats leveling both for the purpose of raising your poise.
If you invest both stats to 30 - the first softcap - that's +18 poise. This is only worth it if you're wearing Medium Armor and not using the Ring of Giants, which would make sense for an honest medium build. Heavy Armor raises your poise by anywhere from ~20'ish to ~40'ish. Assuming you're using Poise to trade blows with Hyper Armor (the only reasonable way to use Poise in Dark Souls 2) there is no benefit to that +18 Poise over the Poise you already get from a full set of heavy armor and if there were you'd use the Giant's Ring instead and pour those extra stats into health, vitality, strength or dexterity. If you don't give a shit about playing online or overlevelling then you can use ADP as a dump stat but a heavy build has no reason to ever actually prioritize it as a stat.
>>3928809
It sold almost 3 million copies in 1 month on its initial release, compared to Dark Souls 1 selling over a million and a half.

>>3928820
I almost forgot to mention; those poise numbies were for chest pieces only. A full set of heavy armor gives anywhere from ~70 to ~120 poise. Your "natural" poise is only really useful for builds that don't gain much poise from their armor but still want to use Hyper Armor frames.

>>3928820
Nta, whats the required poise points? I noticed I didn't get staggered by some enemies and I'm wearing the ds1 knight set from heide.

>killing pursuer pt 2 in iron keep
>going well
>make a mistake, almost dead
>not a big deal
>find a moment to drink estus
>as the estus hits my character's lips an alonne captain suddenly runs in the room to oneshot me
Couldn't help but laugh, all it needed was the WWE commentator yelling WATCH OUT WATCH OUT

>>3928820
>If you don't give a shit about playing online
That should be everyone. The online in Dark Souls, any of them, is absolute dogshit.

>>3928848
Depends. Generally speaking good medium sets like the knight and elite knight set will provide something in the ballpark of ~40 poise in totality. How much poise damage you take depends on a variety of factors but you can generally assume that lighter one handed attacks from enemies will deal about 15-25 poise damage (halve that if you take that damage during a Hyper Armor frame) while heavy attacks or two handed attacks will do somewhere in the ballpark of 40-70 poise damage (again halve it if that damage is taken during a Hyper Armor Frame). This is assuming PVE so I'm not accounting for most npc phantoms or player invaders that might e.g. have the stone ring.
Medium armor is mostly good for being able to still be manueverable, do a tactical blow trade with hyper armor, and poise through the occasional stray hit. Good medium armor will still let you poise rape weaker enemies pretty easily, especially with hyper armor. Because you'll generally want a decent amount of stamina and good roll i-frames anyways, investing in 30 ADP and Endurance is a good idea for the build which would bring you to about 60 Poise assuming you have no other poise boosting gear e.g. ring of giants.

>>3928886
Co-op is fun. Invading players are usually dicks.
>>3928924
Thanks. Do you know how much armor is worth, is the defence gain from switching to alonne armor worth it?

>>3928884
couldn't be me
>t. absolute unit wielding craftsman hammer and obliterating purniggers health bar in five seconds flat after parrying him

>>3928931
Defense is usually worth it, but I wouldn't make the switch to Alonne armor because you can upgrade most armor in Dks2
If you're sticking with medium sets I'd go with either the Alva set or the Drakeblood set or if you're alright being nakey, the Invisible set which you get after maxing out Maughlin's armor shop then showing up to talk to him with 0 souls. He'll take pity on you and gift you the invisible armor of aurous which boosts your equip load and has the best weight-to-defense ratio in the game. Combine it with rings such as e.g. flynn's ring, ring of steel protection, 3rd dragon ring, gower's ring, the quartz rings, etc. to take advantage of its light weight to either boost your attack or bolster your defenses situationally.
The thing is if you're not building a character explicitly with the idea of trading with hyper armor in mind investing in defense is basically padding yourself for mistakes. It's like leveling VIG early in Elden Ring; it's something smart players invest in because they're not autistic sweat lords and don't want to die over and over again to the same enemies for an hour to get a perfect run to the next bonfire

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I can't do it, guys.

>>3929048
>What is: great magic barrier
>What is: magic quartz ring
>What are: radiant lifegems
>What is: dark fog
>What is: toxic mist
>What are: poison knives
>What is: the craftsman hammer you get from mcduffs chest +5
>What is: lightning damage
>What is: gower's ring of protection
stop playing like a retard and beat it to death with a hammer, or blow it up with lightning if you're a faithfag. if you're a caster that isnt a hexer, lol. lmao even.

>>3920492
I watched the old DS2 hate video and I didn't know he said something this stupid
>adaptability is the best stat
>why would you take anything else but adaptability
For the sake of his argument, yes someone's playstyle may be all about that roll roll roll 24/7 life, but it's still a stretch, ignoring a lot of things.

Though this happens with heated arguments. So insistent on proving a point that a tunnel vision gets activated.

>>3927536
>But it's unplayable on PC without mods

What?

The controls seem fine maybe it just fits my type of a controller, it has pretty much no deadzone.

>>3929303
when did using controller on PC became the standard? i mean mouse and keyboard, of course

I've been having fun with these weapons
Main hand
>halberd
>spear
Off hand
>whip
>poison ricard's rapier
Ricard's rapier can apply poison with the R2 combo which is pretty cool. Sadly I never got the Old Whip, whips have been fun to use. Too bad bleed isn't good in DS2, otherwise I'd use the spiky one.

>>3929048
As with almost every boss, just stack life gems and hit him with a blunt object. Every boss is weak to strike.

>>3929390
Maybe 15-20 years ago?
I know I've had an Xbox 360 controller hooked up to my PC for over 10 years now. Works great (unlike jank from the 90s like the Sidewinder)
Lots of RPGs still use KBM but Dark Souls is a console franchise you're assumed to be using a console-style controller.

>>3929400
is dual club still the "broke op" tactics? I remember getting it for the lulz and laughing my ass off watching some bosses just staggering non stop

>>3929390
>this absolute fucking creature plays soulslop on PC with keyboard and mouse
What the hell? Elden Ring with kb + m is no better. Use a controller you stupid animal.

>>3921532
I started with DS3 and 2 is my favorite of the trilogy.
DS3 has some of the best bosses in the Fromsoft catalog but that's about it for me and that's not to mention that it also has some awfully mediocre bosses. It isn't nearly as innovative as DS2 and new mechanics like the mana system don't really feel all that impactful. The coloring and visual design of the game are the equivalent of a raped rotten corpse that keeps on getting reanimated and while that's thematically fitting, it's still not pleasant for the eye. Some enemies are way to aggressive for my taste and make me yearn for the movement of Bloodborne. Playing DS3 makes me yearn for Bloodborne in general.
DS1 is a fun but mediocre game and while there's nothing wrong with that, the overhyped praise this game gets leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It definitely has the best atmosphere of the 3.
DS2 is dramatically underrated by souls "fans". While also a mediocre game it improves on aspects as level design, quest design, and build variety. It makes me sad how much discourse about the game circles around misunderstood design decisions or regurgitated lies.

>>3929459
>kb + m is no better. Use a controller you stupid animal.
It’s been a good run, but 4chins is officially over.

>>3929461
>mediocre
>mediocre
>mediocre
Too pretentious my friend

>>3929461
You being so intelligent who can see what nobody else can should explain what's actually better about the level and quest design, what's better about DS2s builds, and what lies keep getting regurgitated.

>>3929461
>new
Mana was from Demons Souls. Very little about 3 that people praise it for was original to that game and usually what it carried over from other titles was executed worse. It is, in my view, the absolute worst Souls game. DLC was fun though.
DeS and Dks2 are far and away the best in the series. It's also not a coincidence that they're the most innovative titles rather than formulaic.

>>3929469
>DeS and Dks2
these are actually my favourite of the bunch. I don't think I can say DS1 is my favourite because once I get to Sens Fortress, I jsut lose the enthusiasm to keep going.

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>>3929467
>sneeds
nta but first of all, they're more polished. you never get blasted by things like fucking jpegs of trees sticking up out of the ground because they never finished rendering the level
each location has wildly interactive environments. the closest you get to that in dark souls is the fortress where you can use the traps to your advantage
DS2 has a greater amount of build variety because it has more stats to carefully tweak and modulate your strengths and weaknesses, it was also the first souls game to give you 3 right/left weapon slots and four ring slots, greatly expanding the effect combinations you could use, DS2 uniquely allows you to cast buffs and enchant infusions on almost every weapon, it has the most weapons with unique movesets and attributes, and because of the way power stancing works in that game you can even combine these unique movesets and attributes, like combining the left handed moveset of the wolf sword with the ivory straight sword to generate beams of light as just one example off the top of my head.

>>3922333
The true filtering challenge/grind (Loyce souls is even worse)
>>3922347
>>3922354
Pic related hasn't anything to do with drop rates nor despawning enemies. The mad warrior above iron keep spawns indefinitely and is required to be killed exactly 50 times for the full bell keeper armor set if you can't get it through online bell keeper invasions. The only challenge is that the mad warrior isn't guaranteed to spawn per map loading.

Tip for anyone attempting the grind: once you cleared the map 12 times so that the regular enemies despawn use the miracle "Unveil" at the bonfire. It will home in on the mad warrior saving you time from climbing the ladder and checking if he spawned.

>>3922354
I'm going to be nice and not call you retarded.
Enemy de-spawns were implemented as a runback crutch. The idea is that if you're getting pulped by a boss or a tough area that eventually you can brute force your way through a zone by clearing out the enemies. This is why I laugh when I hear stupid faggots try to argue that Dark Souls 2 is harder than 1 or DeS.
And if you don't want that to happen or you're just farming, you join the CoC to make spawns permanent and make enemies drop awestones for you.

>>3921168
Most complaints about dark souls 2 that aren't purely subjective were straight up bullshit, yeah.

>>3929467
Level design is better because it's more interactive to the player, Pharro's stones as broad example allow more interactivity and agency than any DS1 level offered. The only upper hand DS1 has over DS2 in terms of level design is maybe the interconnectivity.
Quests are really superficial in all souls titles however in DS2 there's at least a bit of divergence from the typical meet NPC in three different locations and kill'em in end. The filling of the Majula map or the assassination contracts that can be completed without actually killing anyone or the Pate vs Creighton decision come to mind. Yes, those are bare bones and hardly what one would consider quests but in comparison to your typical souls quest they're improvements.
Besides allowing for the then new hex builds and dual wield build and dedicated bleed and poison builds, weapons are more unique in DS2 than the other two games and are almost all viable. Santiers spear, puzzling stone sword, shield crossbow, smelter hammer and sword, the list goes on.
Common lies or misinformation that repeatedly appear online are for example that the hitboxes are significant worse than the other games or entirely broken, or that enemy spambushes are more frequent/intense than the other games. Almost all of Mauler's talking points, that chances are that even if you never heard of him you may still encounter his arguments.

>>3929466
baka should have used mid

>>3929638
>Ganks
The retarded thing about this is that skillets like Mauler out themselves when they make this argument. For example, the "gank room" in Lost Bastille is very infamous .. only because apparently none of the people who complain about it ever tried to use the environment of the Bastille to their advantage. Such as: using aural decoy or alluring skulls to make the soldiers in the room blow themselves up using the various black powder barrels, or luring them outside to the giant stack of powder keg barrels to blow them up with a fireball or firebomb, or just luring them into the the exit so they can only come at you one-two at a time in a single file line so you can use urns/bombs on them, or a pole arm, or a great/ultra great weapon with an over hand attack, or a whip, or dark fog/poison mist, or any other number of crowd control tools
Or running to the ladder with the dead end and sliding down to the bottom so you can attack them one at a time as they descend the ladder - again giving you an opportunity to use any of the mist spells, or WOTG, or fire pillars, et. al.
They're all so fucking bad at the game

>>3929638
>Common lies or misinformation that repeatedly appear online are for example that the hitboxes are significant worse than the other games or entirely broken, or that enemy spambushes are more frequent/intense than the other games
Neither of those are lies or misinformation though.

>>3929649
They are though. E.g. hitboxes, there are whole series on that by illusory wall on youtube revealing that hitboxes are actually some of the most precise in the franchise. What happens is an animation fidelity issue, where - for example the infamous pursuer grab - the pursuer's sword clips your ankle and then drags you into the animation. This is as an aside why walking/sprinting around attacks is almost always more effective than rolling through them.

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What kind of faggots are you where stat allocation and more (or less?) forgiving rolls supersede world building with regards to what makes Souls games good? Merely taking the elevator from the Church back to Firelink is better than anything you can do with power stances, and how did From expand on that amazing concept? Teleportation at all times. Fun! >>3928766 this anon was right. They could have made a full Dark Souls game, start to finish, with no Izalith, instead they made massochism simulator for a handful of queers who play RPGs with a calculator by their side.

I'm playing DS1 right after DS2, and the difference that jumps out to me, is the lack of fast travel, and how I can plan routes through the world.

I did darkroot garden after undead parish, and in undead basin I realized I could go to the valley of drakes and gain entrance to blighttown, new londo and firelink. Well instead I went to undead burg, remembered that the tower takes me to the bridge where i can get to lower burg and then burg or firelink or depths..

DS2 got a tiny bit of that inside FOTFG and lost bastille levels.

There's some other differences but maybe another time.

>>3929760
>ERMMMMMMMMMMMMM souls lore is better than gameplay :)))))
>EEEEEEEEEERMMMMMMMMMMMMM your roleplaying game shouldn't be a roleplaying game
>I also cannot stop myself from abusing fast travel in video games even when the game is WAY more fun if I go on foot
My one complaint about dark souls 2's world design is that Shanalotte's extra locations don't let her level you up/upgrade your estus like she can in Majula. This is the only change I'd make.

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>>3929760
>he thinks dks2 is hard

>>3929805
>>3929807
What a couple of retarded pieces of shit. Honestly when people fear the internet is full of indians and bots, they think of "people" like you.
Read my post again, out loud if it helps, and see if I ever brought up lore or difficulty.
>I also cannot stop myself from abusing fast travel in video games even when the game is WAY more fun if I go on foot
Not when the game is not designed around it you absolute imbecile. Fucking midwit. Dog.

>>3929856
>can't dispute what's being said
>seethes, shits himself, cries, rages
Lol. And yes, Dark Souls 2 is way more fun if you go on foot. There's an achievement and a special ring you get for not using bonfires, which also obviously includes not using them to teleport with. I guess this means clearly you were never intended to be able to beat the game without fast travel, mr.totally-played-the-game-kun, nyoro~n

>>3929868
Of course I rage, as the White Man is wont to do when setting sights on the low-born. Your kind doesn't process information or emotion, you have a script you run and are confused yet unphased if the answers are unexpected- you still run your flowchart. I've never mentioned lore and it's obvious that more thought is given to travelling the world in DS1 than 2. Behold my gripe.
>BUT WIKI SAY SPECIAL ACHIEVEMENT
Sure it does. I'll take a coke, and hurry it up.

>>3929856
>you absolute imbecile. Fucking midwit
It’s funny how many retards don’t even understand what “midwit” means. Probably never took a stats class.

>>3929903
You're not white though ... maybe try replying to me again without sounding like you're crying? I also notice you didn't have an argument for what I said. Ragepigs are so funny, it's not my fault you can't help yourself but to abuse fast travel whenever it gets offered to you ruining your own fun.
>>3929917
I love it. I especially love it when they're seething and spitting and cussing their other favorite snarl words. Truly brown behavior.

>>3929461
>It definitely has the best atmosphere of the 3.
Agreed. One of the biggest issues I find is that, while it has both the strongest atmosphere and best exploration in principle, there's actually very little pragmatic reason to go out of your way to explore because almost all the best items for a typical build are discovered just sitting on or close to the game's 'major paths'. The only exception that comes to mind is the one actually cleverly hidden firekeeper soul in New Londo, but you otherwise only really need to explore to get stuff for casting focused builds that aren't pyromancy.

All the regular titanite is either grindable from drops or eventually bought, with very few found pickups, and you'll get the embers as long as you don't skip doing the lower berg. The Havel and FAP rings are way more useful than most others and are again, technically skippable, but easily obtained in a normal playthrough where you fight the bosses and major humanoid enemies you find going through accessible areas. Grass crest shield and elite knight set are easily seen and picked up in the basin. Rite of Kindling *has* to be gotten once you go through the catacombs. Pyromancies can be missed, but this is solved by mostly grinding enough. Black knight weapons drop randomly and the most practical ones are just sitting off major paths. Of course, you won't know that this is the case when you first play it, but it's strange to realize after the fact.

Only the best super heavy armors, special embers and miracles/sourceries are really hidden in ways that you'd need to actively seek out and explore to find. This is in contrast to 2, where there are tons of collectables that you actively want to find no matter what you're doing, besides a minimalist run or something.

>>3929942
>This is in contrast to 2, where there are tons of collectables that you actively want to find no matter what you're doing
What are they?

>>3929917
>>3929931
>No, YOU are brown
>No, YOU don't engage with my arguments
>No, YOU don't know what words mean
You're inferior to me, always remember it

>>3930316
If you’re going to call someone an imbecile and a midwit simultaneously, you clearly don’t know what that means, and you’re just mad on the internet.

>>3930350
You can't both be stupid and overestimate your intelligence? Yours is the type of Indian approach where you google definitions of words because you haven't heard them used in real life and go SIR ACTUALLY IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY AT THE DEFINITIONS SIR YOU'LL FIND THAT THE WORD HAS BEEN USED INCORRECTLY.
You don't get to argue about english when you can't understand a simple post like my original one

>>3930350
>If you’re going to call someone an imbecile and a midwit simultaneously, you clearly don’t know what that means, and you’re just mad on the internet.
This is midwit logic.

>>3930359
>Yours is the type of Indian approach where you google definitions of words because you haven't heard them used in real life and go SIR ACTUALLY IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY AT THE DEFINITIONS SIR YOU'LL FIND THAT THE WORD HAS BEEN USED INCORRECTLY.
You’re rapidly completing my Bingo card.

>>3930364
Whereas you're rapidly shitting on the side of the street that your legs don't go numb

Coming from DS1 knight to DS2, it does feel very weightless.

DS2 intro and world are more decrepit, so a plate armor knight looks a bit off.

>>3930314
Estus shards
All kinds of titanite (since pickups are generally found prior to findable sources begin available)
Sublime Bone Dust
A vastly larger variety of rings that are viable for 'general use' (the four ring slots and the lack of anything as busted as Havel's ring also means you have way more reasons to use these varied rings)
Hexes and magic like that
The game also has a really cool amount of weapons and defensive equipment to find, given how generally balanced it as and how viable so much stuff is

1 does have some quite interesting and not exactly trivial good equipment that I haven't mentioned, like the Gravelord sword and Dark Woodgrain ring, but the game has more things that are dominantly superior to others for physically focused characters compared to 2, and a lot of the weird and off kilter stuff is reserved for late game casters who have a repetitive early game.

>>3930380
Is this a PvP player perspective?

>>3930395
It's an everything perspective. I'm pointing but that while, in DaS1, there's tons of stuff to find and pick up, there are relatively few things that are obviously better/more important than most other things and they're mostly easy to come across. Like, you usually don't have much reason to not wear Havel's ring, no matter what.

DaS2 has tons more misc useful things that you'll actually want to find, including Pharos Lockstones and Branches of Yore.

1 has some really, really cool secrets like the whole Asylum to Painted World progression, but a lot of the stuff you actually get from that is rather niche, with the Stray Demon Titanite Slab and Rusted Iron Ring being the most notable. The most useful part of the Painted World is honestly how good the phalanx are to farm for souls.

>>3930417
I think I get it. If you already know what you're after, there's little need for anything else. DS1 was lacking in universally beneficial items that would give a reason to run around and collect.

I prefer not having too many "mandatory" items scattered around, to be honest. DS2 estus shard checklisting gets a pass because there's life gems.

>>3929868
>There's an achievement and a special ring you get for not using bonfires
So I guess you were never intended to level up either? So much for muh rpg mechanics

>>3930451
>What the hell?! This optional challenge requires me to things in challenging and different ways compared to the normal gameplay loop?!
You don't level up at bonfires. At least play the fucking games you're seething about.
Also that achievement is significantly easier in ng+ where your character should be finished and extra levels shouldn't hold that big of an impact.

>>3930316
That's STILL not an argument btw
>>3930359
You're really not beating the allegations of being a projecting brownoid

>>3930372
>If I play a character that isn't at fatass weight break my character doesn't feel as heavy :o
>>3930451
You don't level up at bonfires in dark souls 2 and there isn't an achievement for doing the game at level 1 though it is popular for people to do that. The (stupid) argument presented was that you were never intended to be able to beat dark souls 2 without using fast travel because the world design was crafted around the warp system. This is untrue because they wouldnt include an achievement like that in the game if they never intended for you to be able to beat the entire thing on foot without ever sitting at a bonfire.

>>3930417
>Like, you usually don't have much reason to not wear Havel's ring, no matter what.
As a no-brainer, can't-go-wrong-and-I-don't-really-want-to-think-about-it ring, yes.
In reality, there are plenty of ring combinations that are better for certain builds and situations. Eg the stealth ring and the fog ring, the dusk ring and the bellowing dragoncrest ring. Sometimes you aren't planning on dodgerolling anyway and so you don't really care how far over the fatroll cap you go. So you can just throw in extra protection or poise instead of the havel ring.

>>3930519
>This is untrue because they wouldnt include an achievement like that in the game if they never intended for you to be able to beat the entire thing on foot without ever sitting at a bonfire.
Games aren't designed around achievements. That shit is bolted on by retards afterward.

>>3930514
>That's STILL not an argument btw
The argument was made in my first post- what made Dark Souls 1 great was (among other things) the world building, which is infinitely worse in DS2.
The responses I've gotten were that I care about lore (which was never brought up), that I think DS2 is hard (which was never even implied), and some other strange ramblings.
You're talking to more than one person by the way.

>>3930519
you're arguing with a notorious schizo who seeks out any dark souls 2 thread to have melties in, just stop giving him (You)'s

>>3920492
Yeah, I dunno.
DS2 absolutely has problems, but basically none of the common points are the actually issues DS2 has.
I suspect, people go in looking for reasons to hate it, so find all the things that the entire series suffers from in new light.
With a small degree of "Dark Souls 2 expects you to utilize options at your disposal, and a naked/tseldora Guts sword build will struggle if you obstinately refuse to pick up a fucking bow once or twice in your life".
I really do think the latter issue is a bigger problem for most people than you would expect. People are used to these games having "correct" ways to play, either Poisemaxxing in DS1, Parry & cripplespam in Bloodborn, rollspam in DS3, and cranking your scaling to a million damage and skipping combat in Elden Ring, while Dark Souls 2 mostly really does expect you to look at a problem, and shift gears appropriately. And I think this fucks with people who approach the other games in a "this game is hard, but I play it 'correctly', so never have to think about it" sort of way.
I think.

It shares some spirit with Morrowind, I guess. By that, I mean, while there are absolutely complaints to be made, there are certain complaints that I hear, and IMMEDIATELY have a flash of understanding of what happened.
In Morrowind, there's a half dozen complaints I see that make me see a level 1 character, with the dagger off that guy's desk, that the character has no skill with, butter knifing a mudcrab with 0 Fatigue, and complaining about the rng when they die. I just see it.
Similarly, there are certain complaints of Dark Souls 2, where I see a character getting roll-caught by the fucking hippo in the river on their sixth attempt at fighting it the exact same way, and then being unable to complete FFG at half health, 1 estus, without despawning enemies along the way. I just see it

>>3930417
Yeah, mostly I'd agree with this.
In terms of the "going to get shit" stage of a DS1 replay, usually your checklist goes something like
The early game weapon I want. Either something good at base I intend to replace with a later weapon like the drake sword or ASS, or something good and available early like the Zwei or reinforced club. Usually done in under 5 minutes of touching firelink.
Maybe the Grass Crest shield, by weapon preference. Maybe 10 minutes.
Go cheese Havel somehow. His ring is probably glued to you until O&S at the minimum anyways. Either you can parry him and this takes like 30 seconds, or you need to dung pie him and this takes like 2 minutes.
If you are feeling incredibly zesty, go get the chloranthy ring and/or dragon stone. Maybe a good 25 minutes, assuming you bonward home after. Maybe the crimson robes on the way, those shat pants are good and if you're poisemaxxing you picked Knight already anyways
Grab the like 2-3 freebie fire keeper souls on the side of the road getting everything else. Cumulatively add like three minutes.
Then the "fuck, gotta go do asylum 2" reminder. Takes an extra 15, 10 of which are spent slapping Stray Demon's ass with your +1 shit scraper if doing this ASAP.
And if you're smoking meth, you grab the two coals, I'll boldly say this takes 20 minutes.
That's pretty much it. This takes like, an hour, tops, if you're the sort of nutjob that wants the most disparate haul of the Gravelord Sword, Grass Crest & Havel's, and Chloranthy before you can start playing the game. Maybe an hour and fifteen, if you are exactly the kind of autist who needs the Stray Demon's ring before going to the hollow.
Versus Dark Souls 2, where going to get shit is almost always a layered process. Unless you are a purist, who needs only the Tseldora set, an Estoc, and the second estus outta the well to be everyone else's problem, the entire first third of the game will be spent getting your shit.

>>3929649
Tell me about the big hitbox bubbles that sometimes grow at the Gaping Dragon's unmoving feet while it swings its arms, again George.

>>3930544
>sees anons where they aren't
>calls other schizo

>>3930651
Seeing the discourse surrounding DS2 opened my eyes to how shit the average gamer is.

>>3930651
>Poisemaxxing in DS1
There's no correct way to play DS1.
>rollspam in DS3
DS3 punishes any other playstyle.

>>3930528
>In reality, there are plenty of ring combinations that are better for certain builds and situations. Eg the stealth ring and the fog ring, the dusk ring and the bellowing dragoncrest ring. Sometimes you aren't planning on dodgerolling anyway and so you don't really care how far over the fatroll cap you go.
This was the case for my knight playthrough. By the time I got to Havel's tower, I was already comfortable playing without rolling. I ended up using a variety of rings: ring of the evil eye, cloranthy ring, darkmoon seance ring, ring of fog. The blue defence ring could have been useful too for this high vitality builld, but I never picked it up lol.

By the way, the morning star mace is really good. For a backup weapon I got the dagger and later a fire shortsword.

>>3931046
I swear, Hammers are the most consistently good weapon in these games. I think they're at their worst in DS1, actually, where they're held back by mostly shit weapons being available most of the game. They're still easily the best 1h class.

>>3931117
It seems decently balanced. DS1's level design has enough tight spaces that the clunky attacks can be detrimental, and missing attacks can leave you open. The dagger/shortsword was the perfect side arm, providing agility, reach, slash and thrust.

The mace is beautiful though. I found it in the catacombs and turned it divine.

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>>3929048
i beat him (and got nothing useful out of it) but now i have Fume Knight in front of me. Are all DLCs bosses going to be "dodge four times, attack once" type of bosses??

>>3929760
>merely taking the elevator from the Church back to Firelink
oh my God, again with this fucking elevator??

>>3931337
In that DLC? Kinda, yeah.
Enjoy the adp check. If you roll through Fumie's thicc horizontal swing and catch the other side, be sure to post so we can laugh.

If his sword is glowing, he's locked into phase 1. It's meant to catch people who expect the phase change and go for a heal.
If you don't have good adp and don't know what to look for, the balls will get you. They have different spacing. You have to think ahead for their curving trajectory while also reacting quick like, but the wider openings are safer.
Expect 3 swings, and you'll be safe.
He goes down like a bitch if you've developed good fundamentals. Don't overextend, mind your green sauce, and keep your head.

>>3931537
yea, i ended up beating him. cool fight but very unsatisfying to do just ONE attack after dodging every combo (2 if i roll thru the fire bullshit swipe) while he just chains 3-4 piece combos left and right.
His only weakness is that he's surprisingly forgiving to estus chugging, like you can just chug right by his side after dodging a combo or heavy attack and still have time to dodge the next attack (15 ADP).

>>3931337
it's an easy example to give. personally, the one in blighttown was more of a mindfuck for me

>>3931559
I like new londo floodgate opening the coolest. I like new londo in general. Unearthing the darkwraith filth and cleansing it.

But valley of drakes suffers from the lost izalith school of design. I see 6 large enemies with probably large sized HP bars, and I say "I will never in my life actually engage those enemies in fair combat". And I never have.

>>3931578
>But valley of drakes suffers from the lost izalith school of design
I hear that. Everything around the Valley and the way those places connect is great, unfortunately the Valley is in the middle. Honest to God you could remove those drakes and the place would be 10 times as good. Make them fly around unnatackable and spit lightning at you, I don't know.
But this is why I say that DS2 should have been DS1: Again. There are just too many clearly incomplete areas, not only in terms of enemies, but layout as well. Again, it's so hard to believe that there are faggots who look at Dark Souls and think "yea, this game has a good combat system and RPG elements and that's all there is to it". And then you have this faggot, >>3929805 so obtuse that he can't even conceive that a game might have more to offer than combat and lore.

>>3931559
i just think DS2 has better self-contained maps on average, even if the way they connect is a bit off a lot of times. There's a lot more stuff to find in comparisson to DS1 (it doesn't help that ds1 has 4 or 5 build-agnostic items that are actually useful), more environmental gimmicks to figure out and work around of, and A LOT more meaningful combat, especially with all the ambushes and gank squads.

>>3931670
Yea, maybe it's because I've only played SOTFS and never vanilla 2, but the gank squads paired with roomfuls of enemies never seemed like good design to me. Again, it's not that it's difficult, it's just that running to get aggro of 2 guys and then running back to a corridor like you're playing a WOW dungeon you're underleveled for never seemed fun to me.
With regards to builds, and things worth exploring FOR, you're missing my point which I've made a few times. I mean I'd still like to get lost in Darkroot even if Grass Crest wasn't there.
>more environmental gimmicks to figure out
Such as?

>>3931689
>it's because I've only played SOTFS and never vanilla 2
i never played vanilla either.

>more environmental gimmicks to figure out
>Such as?
Lost Bastille: the explosive enemies that hide inside the large clay pots
Earthen Peak: the poison clouds, the posion filled jars, the shooting traps
Iron Keep: the fire-spitting states
The Gutter and Black Gulch: the poison spitting totens
Shaded Woods: the mist and the curse jars
Drangleic Castle: the golems that need souls to activate
Shrine of Amana: being complete garbage
Undead Crypt: the bells that summon those cowled winged spirits
and many others in DLC levels

>>3931758
I see. Hopefully you agree that the "gimmicks to figure out" were better executed covertly in DS1. I mean, setting aside the Depths and Anor Lando archers, even something as mundane as the lower burgs, I think, in hindsight, did a phenomenal job of anticipating the small ass space for the Capra Demon fight with the tight corridors. There's nothing like that in DS2.
>i never played vanilla either.
Did you have fun in No-Man’s Wharf?