>>3921898
Does ADOM count?
It's still my favorite

>>3921898
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is the current gold standard for traditional roguelikes. If you haven't played through a full, 15-rune win with dcss, you have no right to voice your opinion on contemporary roguelikes.

>>3922047
sure, it's one of the quintessential roguelikes along with nethack and angband.

>>3921898
It's a little tricky to pick a favorite, but the one I've put the most time into is IVAN. I appreciate its shorter length compared to most of the big classic roguelikes.

>>3922050
I've never been able to get into DCSS. I don't know exactly what it is, but something about the game causes me to get bored almost immediately when I try it, while I've had a lot of fun with stuff like Nethack.

>>3921898
For tactical fun: Moria
For RP: Omega (Literally had a self insert quiz to generate your stats along with cool temples of your chosen god to get a power up from) Open world Roguelike was something else back in the days long before anyone ever heard of the term open world.

>>3922047
I mean, ADOM is the true flagship of old school roguelikes after v1.1.1 in the 2000s. Caves Of Qud is in the genre and extremely flavorful / unique.

>>3922202
CoQ is easy, lame and the only thing it has going for it is bloatent.

Does anybody have a link to ToME 3 3.00 alpha19 Aka Tales of Middle Earth 3?
It is not in the archive and i can't find in anywhere?

>>3922219
It is.
https://archive.org/details/ArchiveRL.7z
Direct link:
https://archive.org/download/ArchiveRL.7z/ArchiveRL%20v1.1.zip/ArchiveRL%20v1.1%2FVariant%2FAngband%2FToME%203%20%28v3.00%20alpha19%29%5Bvar%5D%2B%5Bmods%5D.7z

>>3922209
t. angband fan

>>3922230
Damn, must have missed it. Thanks.

>>3922219
2.3.5 is the one you should aim for, that was the latest version before it all started shifting into Tales of Maj'Eyal

>>3922050
I am with the other anon >>3922198 there's something I find unappealing about that game that pushes me back to something more iconic. I basically either want to play Angband, or something new school (roguelite) instead.

>>3922050
dcss is (99%) berlin-compliant but doesn't have the spirit of traditional roguelikes.

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>>3922209
That's true for literally all roguelikes. You're trying and failing to be deceitful in your pathetic attempt to manipulate the conversation to soothe your dumb as fuck ego. Shut the fuck up.

TOME4 is the worst roguelike ever conceived.

>>3922209
The world is more interesting than most generic fantasy, the purple prose is fun and the endless variety of meme builds is entertaining.
That said I think my favorite is tome. It's just comfy.

>>3922364
>That's true for literally all roguelikes.
No, it isn't. I don't know why retards like you are compelled to come here and lie, it won't make your modern garbage any better of a game.

>>3921898
ADOM. Out of all of them it's the one that feels closest to a traditional RPG for me, with the overworld, the skill system, talents, the way races and classes work, the different quests. And it's just a fun world to explore, I never get tired of it.
Nethack and Angband are also good choices.

>>3922047
Same.

>>3922378
Why?
Its the only one I've had fun with which probably speaks to it being a bad game for the genre but what's wrong with?

>>3922620
Cooldown combat, lore, unlockable classes, static quests, MMO itemization, trash bestiary, difficulty purely through crawl hypnosis, bloated areas, and incremental character building. It's basically a roguelike for people who don't like traditional roguelikes.

>>3922620
Might as well not be a roguelike at all, really, since it plays like and has the mechanics of an action-rpg. Don't get me wrong, it can still be a fun time, but it doesn't really appeal to people who like traditional roguelikes.

>>3922620
I don't really enjoy the wacky classes with their own custom resources and mechanics nor the ability cooldowns, but my main gripe with the game is the uneven difficulty. You are playing on autopilot since everything dies with no effort until an enemy who looks like all the others suddenly one shots you.

>>3921898
ive been mostly playing brogue lately desu. just an excellent UI for a genre known for usually having the literal opposite

but i did just find an early attempt at porting angband to 3DS homebrew. touchscreen keyboard could stand to be about 2x as big, but theres enough there to play. ended up zoning out and playing for like an hour lol

>>3921898
I'm a frogcomposband fan, but going by hours played ToME4 and Path of Achra are my joint tops at ~200 hours each

>>3922209
Insane how much seethe CoQ still causes in here, bet you're one of the usual DCSS kids

>>3922680
Crawl and Qud might as well be the same game, though.

>>3922683
They couldn't be more different if they tried, they have absolutely nothing in common

>>3922685
>they have absolutely nothing in common
They are both designed entirely by, and for, retards.

>>3922687
What's a roguelike that's not designed for and by retards then, and why?

>>3922688
Nethack, ADOM, Angband, Sil, IVAN, Frogcompostband. All good games with well-thought-out and well-implemented design that are enjoyable to play and learn. TOME is designed by a retard, but not for retards, so it only half-counts. Even current day Nethack has fallen victim to the disease of Discord morons who feel a constant need to "rebalance" things, but luckily there's nothing forcing you to play the modern version.
The fact that Qud manages to have significantly worse design than its inspirations ADOM (last version update in 2012) and Nethack (last good version update in fucking 2003) is almost impressive in a retarded way.

>>3922694
The only game that vaguely classifies in your list is Sil and it's still not without its faults, both Nethack and Angband are incredibly archaic even in its current versions and again, not without their many faults.
ADOM and IVAN in particular are extremely shitty games with ridiculously bad design and I find it extremely laughable that you're putting them on a pedestal, let alone say that Qud has worse design than ADOM considering Qud has nothing as retarded as ADOM's entire spell system let alone shit like the Cat Lord and everything tied to it, nevermind how Qud still has an entirely different approach from both ADOM and Nethack, both of which wish they had a fraction of Qud's depth in terms of mechanics.
You're just another clueless retard who's extremely jealous of Qud's success.

>>3922698
This is the wrong genre to argue "old bad, new good"; people still play and enjoy games like Nethack and ADOM to this day because they hold up and they're fun.
>nevermind how Qud still has an entirely different approach from both ADOM and Nethack, both of which wish they had a fraction of Qud's depth in terms of mechanics
Qud is heavily inspired by ADOM, to the point where its creators used to describe it as "'Gamma World meets ADOM', but I guess you're too young to remember that. It's pretty obvious to anyone who's played both games, with the overworld, persistent main quests etc.
Also, lol at suggesting Qud is in any way deeper mechanically than either of those games. Qud wishes that it had a tenth of the depth of ADOM's skill and combat system, or a hundredth that of Nethack's environmental and item interactions. I guess it offers a bunch of meaningless procgen quests in a meaningless procgen world, so if that's your thing that's a point in its favour.
>You're just another clueless retard who's extremely jealous of Qud's success.
Why would I be jealous? I'm not making my own roguelike. Pointing out a poorly designed game is poorly designed doesn't make me jealous, or seething, or any of the other buzzwords you feel like spouting. I would've liked Qud to be a good game instead of the garbage that we got, because it's a halfway interesting world and it would have been enjoyable to explore if the devs had been competent enough to make a fun game, but that's just me.

>>3922707
I've been playing Roguelikes since the first Castle of the Winds came out so no, I'm old enough to remember that and many other things, and Qud still has a completely different approach from both ADOM and Nethack, being inspired=/=being the same thing!
>Qud wishes that it had a tenth of the depth of ADOM's skill and combat system
It's the opposite, Qud's mechanics are unfathomably deeper than ADOM's or Nethack's, Qud's simulation of gases, liquids and various matter states alone is on a completely different level, combat wise both ADOM and Nethack are incredibly primitive compared to Qud which offers a plethora of interlocked game mechanics that simply do not exist in either one or both of those games, Nethack lacks something as basic as a dismemberment system for instance, ADOM environmental mechanics are incredibly poor and so is its mapgen which is downright archaic compared to Qud's already middling one which is quite a few step behind compared to quite a few of its contemporaries like Cogmind or even DCSS and its derivatives, ADOM's mapgen is downright bad and so is IVAN's which is however a bit above ADOM's.
ADOM has nothing on the level of Qud's environmental interactions, it completely lacks entire layers of mechanics such as tinkering where you can legit repair and rebuild stuff, if not outright build things from scratch especially if we include mods, ADOM does not let you create your own settlements like Qud does nor does it let you interact with the world's species and factions like Qud does, it's simply much more simple and archaic at any level.
>Why would I be jealous?
I wouldn't know, it's none of my business really but you very evidently are, people like you are petty about the most meaningless things and I do not have the time or will to argue with somebody that is so delusional to think ADOM has more depth than Qud, this is not an argument made with a clear mind.

>>3922728
fuck off back to your discord, annoying fanatical retard!

>>3922728
>and Qud still has a completely different approach from both ADOM and Nethack, being inspired=/=being the same thin
Yeah, because when someone describes something as "X meets Y", they mean it's not going to be like either of those things, right? Retard.
>Qud's simulation of gases, liquids and various matter states alone is on a completely different level
Right, gases and liquids. Exactly what people want when they talk about deep roguelike systems. And what exactly can you do with such complex simulations of gases and liquids, beyond kill your turnspeed with gases that go through walls and liquids that are almost impossible to remove once they appear, because the devs forgot to include a proper clean function?
>combat wise both ADOM and Nethack are incredibly primitive compared to Qud which offers a plethora of interlocked game mechanics that simply do not exist in either one or both of those games
Name them.
>Nethack lacks something as basic as a dismemberment system for instance
A dismemberment system is not particularly basic, nor is it a common feature of roguelikes, nor does Qud have a particularly good system (since apart from being unable to use equipment slots you can fight just as well missing both feet and an arm as you can with all your limbs).
>ADOM environmental mechanics are incredibly poor and so is its mapgen which is downright archaic compared to Qud's already middling one
Ah, yes, the famous "spawned inside a single tile buried in mountains" Qud procgen. By the way, the devs still haven't fixed critical map features including ones required for the main quest simply failing to build properly, and their response on how to fix is it "use dev commands lol"

>>3922728
>>3922737
>ADOM has nothing on the level of Qud's environmental interactions, it completely lacks entire layers of mechanics such as tinkering where you can legit repair and rebuild stuff
It has smithing, but I guess you would have to have played the game to know that. As well as enchanting, item beatitude, affixes. Qud's tinkering system isn't very good, mods do exactly the same thing regardless of item type (scaling only with item tier) and almost all item slots have mods that are strictly better than other mods, so there's no real reason to use anything other than the best mod for the slot. And like so many other things in the game, learning mods depends almost entirely on rng (data disks) so you're encouraged to scum merchants until you get the ones you need because if you rely on having a specifc mod that you can't build you're just fucked until you find it.
...unless you cheese the system with cooking (another incredibly broken and unbalanced Qud system). The fact that water has weight but you can carry infinite amounts of bits to instantly tinker into items right in front of merchants is hilarious, if you're not just mind-controlling them and forcing them to give you their entire inventory at once.

>>3922728
>>3922737
>
>ADOM does not let you create your own settlements like Qud does nor does it let you interact with the world's species and factions like Qud does
Qud does not let you create your own settlements. But sure, though are they good mechanics? Most faction interaction is incredibly simplistic, "teach me x recipe" or "become my follower" for Y reputation, and you end up with retarded shit like your former allies deciding to fight you to the death because you killed too many auto-hostile baboons who said nice things about their faction or some shit, because everyone in a faction instantly knows when your reputation updates due to magic telepathy.

Not to mention that because it's all (badly implemented) procgen you get insane scenarios like the warden of the very first village attacking and murdering the head farmer because the game randomly decided that they were enemies... despite the fact that they only did so as soon as the player arrives on the scene. That isn't a hypothetical, it's something that can happen on the very first screen of the game which means it's possible for that to be a new player's very first experience. That's not a bug, according to the devs it's a "feature". It's retarded as hell.

>y-you must be jealous, that's the only reason someone would criticise my shitty game
>I don't have the time or will to argue with you which is why I spent the time to write up a whole post to argue with you
Least retarded Qudfaggot (I gusss liking penis is in the name, after all).
This is exactly why you retards don't have a clue what you're talking about. The retarded devs put systems in the game and people like you get sucked into thinking "wow, so deep" without realising they're all as deep as puddles on a sunny day. But because they're there you masturbate over them furiously because Qud must be some pioneering masterpiece of a game. It's exactly the same cultlike fetishism that has retards praising Crawl for being "balanced" and "fair".

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>>3922737
>because when someone describes something as "X meets Y"
Ideally people would not be so stupidly reductive and actually talk without ridiculous biases but here we are.
>Exactly what people want when they talk about deep roguelike systems.
Yeah? You're the one who wanted to talk about depth but apparently you didn't.
If you can't deal with gases or liquids that only tells how little you know about the game considering simple thermal effects from a variety of sources take care of those.
>Name them.
I already did, I'm not going to repeat myself just to entertain your butthurt.
>A dismemberment system is not particularly basic, nor is it a common feature of roguelikes
Oh, so you agree that Qud is actually deeper than Nethack then?
>nor does Qud have a particularly good system
Qud has a good system precisely because it gives you options to use outside of your basic limbs, nevermind just manipulate the amount and nature of your limbs.
>Ah, yes, the famous "spawned inside a single tile buried in mountains" Qud procgen
This has stopped being an issue since years, and even with that it's still better procgen than ADOM's basic ass rectangle rooms connected by simple corridors.
>it has smithing, but I guess you would have to have played the game to know that
I played the game much more than you ever will and I wasn't talking about item tinkering, I was talking about messing around with environments, like repairing circuitry to set up portals and such.
>mods do exactly the same thing regardless of item type
Why would they do something else?
>and almost all item slots have mods that are strictly better than other mods, so there's no real reason to use anything other than the best mod for the slot.
Any more platitudes for the day? You can say the same for a lot of things in any of the other games you mentioned by the way.
Most of the races/classes in ADOM for instance are worthless, don't see you whine about that though.
>>>

>>3922745
>And like so many other things in the game, learning mods depends almost entirely on rng (data disks)
ADOM's magic system is entirely RNG too but I don't see you complain about needing to constantly farm spellbooks in that game just to play a caster, which is really a martial with some occasional spellcasting.
>...unless you cheese the system with cooking (another incredibly broken and unbalanced Qud system)
And how is that different from, say, cheesing ADOM with rings of Djinni summoning?
All roguelikes have cheese, Qud was explicitly not created with """""balance""""" in mind either, no RL ever has good balance really, all of them can be broken horribly, all of them have inconsistent mechanics and various concessions made to gameplay coherency, such as ADOM's omniscient merchants, but of course it's fine when YOUR favorite games do that shit I guess.
>Qud does not let you create your own settlements
It does, Hearthpyre is a thing, Qud has an extremely prolific modding community unlike ADOM, nobody plays vanilla Qud because mods add so much more stuff you can play around with.
>and you end up with retarded shit like your former allies deciding to fight you to the death because you killed too many auto-hostile baboons
This does not happen, people in your party stay friendly as long as they're under your direct control.
>That's not a bug, according to the devs it's a "feature". It's retarded as hell.
Yes, it's literally there to showcase the mechanic, it's fun, Memet dying immediately means fuckall either, nevermind how you can also choose to not start in Joppa at all.
I fail to see the issue here.
>This is exactly why you retards don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Says the guy who doesn't actually have a clue about anything but surface level knowledge of a game he criticizes while putting games with the same or worse problems on a pedestal.

Again, you're just butthurt that Qud is more popular and beloved than your favorite games.

Caves of Qud is one of THE BEST games I have ever played and not even 10 genders can detract me from it

I know truekin down to a T but still get decarbonized or nuked before getting regen or ultra precog

>>3922758
Play more games.

>>3922761
I'm a 34 year old NEET who's done nothing but that almost his entire life. Lately Qud's hardcore nature and its ability to fuck you over even late game is all that keeps me hooked. Have you ever put too much neutron flux in a golem and died walking on a thorny bush?

>>3922768
Why don't you try TOME? It's got lots of shiny buttons to click.

>>3922768
>I'm a 34 year old NEET who's done nothing but that almost his entire life.
You should do something before it’s too late, buddy.

>>3922745
>>3922746
>Ideally people would not be so stupidly reductive and actually talk without ridiculous biases but here we are.
Hey, it was the devs who said that, not me. Take it up with them.
>Yeah? You're the one who wanted to talk about depth but apparently you didn't.
>If you can't deal with gases or liquids that only tells how little you know about the game considering simple thermal effects from a variety of sources take care of those.
Usually when people talk about mechancial depth, they're talking about gameplay. So what deep and exciting innovations in gameplay are allowed by this incredible similation of gases and liquids?
And I never said I couldn't deal with them., just that they're poorly designed. Burning them off is the only way to remove them (and that doesn't even work for all puddles), unless you want to count shifting them one-by-one with containers. So a single giant amoeba explodes and suddenly you've got a huge puddle of slime that you and enemies will track everywhere because autoexplore will walk you through it, and you're wasting turns cleaning muck off your gear. Wow, such deep and exciting gameplay.
>I already did, I'm not going to repeat myself just to entertain your butthurt.
So gas and liquid simulation, that's all you've got? Well, if you want to go with that, don't let me stop you.
>Oh, so you agree that Qud is actually deeper than Nethack then?
Having a single mechanic that Nethack doesn't does not make it deeper. Does Qud have prayer, piety, sacrifice, character alignment, role artifacts, item enchantment, wishing (as an in-game option, not as a dev tool)? What about the plethora of item interactions that Nethack does, like cockatrices or cream pies? Altered states of perception with specific interactions and messages? No? Guess Nethack is deeper after all.

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>>3922745
>>3922793
>Qud has a good system
The fact that you can fight as a one-armed torso just as effectively as with all your limbs is dumb as hell, it's Nethack that you would expect to have a Monty Python reference. The limb growth system is a neat idea, but it's only applicable to certain characters and the game doesn't really do anything with it beyond more limbs = good.

>This has stopped being an issue since years, and even with that it's still better procgen than ADOM's
It was an issue even in the official release build of the game and as far as I know has never been truly fixed, only become less common, because I ran into it playing several patches after 1.0. Not to mention other issues like sites generating over each other if they pick the same location during worldgen and critically important furniture not building right because of issues with level generation. ADOM's map layouts might be boring (it's a grid-based game, what do you expect) but at least they work, which is kind of important in a game.

>I played the game much more than you ever will
Are you sure about that? :^)
>I was talking about messing around with environments, like repairing circuitry to set up portals and such.
Okay. What else can you do, apart from the portals?

>Why would they do something else?
They shouldn't, it's just boring. You'll get a two-handed sword half an hour into the game and if you know Sharp you'll make it Sharp because penetration is incredibly good on melee weapons. You'll get a two-handed sword sixty hours into a run and make it Sharp for the same reason. There are very few items which have any meaningful choice between what mods to use, so you're not making any choice as a player, just scumming for the best items and putting the best mods on them because there's no reason not to. Oh, and despite the main quest giver faction being a society of tinkers and plenty of other tinkers existing in the world you can't pay anyone to mod your items, for some reason.

>>3922745
>>3922793
>>3922795
>You can say the same for a lot of things in any of the other games you mentioned by the way.
A lot of games have "best in slot" items, but that's not just true for roguelikes. And in good roguelikes the player should have to evaluate what's best to use in a certain situation and make a choice based on that, adapting over time and with what you have available. Do you want reflection or resistance? Is it better to keep wearing that amulet of life saving or swap to something which gives you intrinsic protection for an enemy? Qud doesn't have those properties so there's no choices to make. Again, depth.
Not to mention that many of those items are so rare the player might never see one, or might only be able to obtain them with a rare and valuable wish.

>Most of the races/classes in ADOM for instance are worthless, don't see you whine about that though.
lol, just lol
Not only are you admitting to being terrible at the game, you're making the mistake of conflating equipment variety (ie how you play in-game) with class/role/race selection, when they're intended to be more or less difficult to provide greater challenge and different gameplay. Again, depth, but that's a concept you've continually proven unable to understand.
And no, most races and classes are not worthless. Just because (you)'re too bad to win with them does not make them worthless.

>>3922746
>ADOM's magic system is entirely RNG too but I don't see you complain about needing to constantly farm spellbooks in that game just to play a caster, which is really a martial with some occasional spellcasting.
Wizards and Necromancers get a guaranteed copy of every spellbook in the game in the Library and most other classes will get a good selection, even non-casters. In addition to getting them as loot, in shops, wishing for them, etc. Casters (particularly Wizards) get increased spell knowledge on reading from spellbooks, and if that's not enough you can spend talents on improving spell knowledge further or increasing the occurance of shops. A Wizard can easily spend the whole game without making a single melee or ranged attack.
And yes, to an extent spellbooks being RNG is an intended design choice. Again, it's giving the player a choice - do you use a spell you have high knowledge in or is better suited to the situation, but with only limited castings? Or do you use a spell that you have plenty of spellbooks for? Do you risk bookcasting even if it places you in more danger?
Item mods in Qud aren't really comparable; they're mostly passive benefits and none of them are as important in gameplay as spellcasting in ADOM. It's just that you're strictly worse without having the gear with the best mods on it so yay, scumming merchants.

>And how is that different from, say, cheesing ADOM with rings of Djinni summoning?
How can you cheese ADOM with rings of Djinni summoning? Statistically the average player will see ONE wish a game if they're searching for it, and can guarantee one independently, and many characters won't even live long enough to get that far. Not to mention that getting a single wish doesn't guarantee a win even for an experienced player. Nethack gives you a guaranteed wand of wishing and yet the win rate isn't 100%

>>3922746
>>3922800
>All roguelikes have cheese, Qud was explicitly not created with """""balance""""" in mind either
Yeah, all of them have cheese, but the difference is that Qud was specifically designed around expecting you to cheese the game. The devs couldn't implement their mechanics properly and when they saw how easy it was to cheese with things like merchant and polygel farming instead of rebalancing their mechanics like reasonable people they just gave up and decided to balance the rest of their game around assuming the player would do those things, which is why lategame enemies are such a powerspike compared to earlier, including enemies that can chainstun you to death before you even see them and others than can instantly kill you (no save) on making any melee hit. Without mentioning the enemy abilities that the player simply has no way of using.

Qud is a roguelike where savescumming is included as an explicit and canon game mechanic. Do I even have to explain how fucking retarded that is?
How are merchants in ADOM omniscient? Nobody is saying that a game should be a hundred percent realistic, the issue is that Qud makes a bunch of dumb design decisions because "realism" but isn't consistent or good enough to justify them.

>Hearthpyre is a thing
"Mods fix it" is not an argument, we are talking about the games as they were developed and released. If you want to count moddability in Qud's favour then sure, but personally I prefer my games being released in a finished state instead of relying on the players to do it for them.

>that does not happen, people in your party stay friendly as long as they're under your direct control.
I'm talking about factions, not party members. You can be friendly or even revered with a faction, go halfway across the map to kill a bunch of monkies and when you return (even if you teleport back) your former friends will attack you on sight.

>>3922746
>>3922800
>>3922803
It's even possible to be attacked instantly upon ending conversation if you spent enough rep to drop a friendly NPC to neutral and they're normally hostile when they are neutral to the PC (and if you water ritualled them you still get blamed if you kill them even if they attack you first). Does that seem like a well-thought-out, considered faction system to you?

>I fail to see the issue here.
You lose access to his quest since it doesn't have any alternative questgivers, and the reputation and skills from water ritualling Mehmet. And it usually depopulates Joppa since half the town or more gets drawn into the fight and soloed by the Warden (great job protecting the town there, buddy). Not too bad for an experienced player, but a first or second time player?
Moreover, it's just retarded. The two of them have been living together for how many years, nothing going on, and then as soon as the player character arrives they decide to fight to the death? Come on.

>while putting games with the same or worse problems on a pedestal.
You haven't actually explained the problems with Nethack or ADOM, though, beyond "muh RNG" "muh classes" "muh level generation" (all wrong, btw). If those are your actual criticisms, I can only suggest that you find a different genre of games to play. Which explains a lot about you liking Qud, really.

>again, you're just butthurt that Qud is more popular and beloved than your favorite games.
And again, fucking lol. Popularity? You're in the wrong genre for that, my friend. But even so, people have been playing Nethack and ADOM for more than twenty years; Nethack went more than a decade without updates and people were still playing it. Twenty years from now people will still be playing and enjoying them, and Qud will either be forgotten or remembered as a funny little game about furries and that's it.

That took a while, respond only to the points you want or don't, I don't care.

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>>3922774
Like get this stupid overrated gun? I tried, it sucked. There's no place in normal life for me. What do you mean, too late? Too late for what?

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>>3922793
>So what deep and exciting innovations in gameplay are allowed by this incredible similation of gases and liquids?
Turning liquids into different vapors through heat, for starters.
Or coupling puddles with things like tubular hydrojets for faster movement speed, you can make entire builds like that for both mutants and TKs.
Different liquids force different interactions as well, magma isn't the same as water, or acid, or black sludge.
>Burning them off is the only way to remove them
No, using a source of heat is, usually, the more convenient way to deal with them provided you can deal with vapors, ideally the best solution is to freeze them unless it's lava, or you can fly over them, phase through them, you name it.
>Having a single mechanic that Nethack doesn't does not make it deeper.
Sure, but there's tons of mechanics that Nethack doesn't have, which you conveniently ignore because you're clearly mentally ill and massively butthurt about Qud.
>The fact that you can fight as a one-armed torso just as effectively as with all your limbs is dumb as hell
You can't unless you're an esper, and even there losing three equipment slots and being crippled is not ideal nor effective, not having feet is especially bad because movement speed is incredibly important.
>Not to mention other issues like sites generating over each other if they pick the same location during worldgen and critically important furniture not building right because of issues with level generation.
Never saw that and I play with a shitload of mods, if the map ain't generating due to memory leaks you can just exit the game and reload.
>Are you sure about that? :^)
Yes actually, because that was an old screenshot I picked by mistake.
>You'll get a two-handed sword half an hour into the game and if you know Sharp you'll make it Sharp
You can also make it freezing if you so like, sharp is good but hardly the end of all for most melee weapons.
>>>

>>3922815
>you can't pay anyone to mod your items, for some reason.
Pointless nitpicking, especially coming from somebody who's whining about the game being unbalance and now asking for even worse balance
>>>
>And in good roguelikes the player should have to evaluate what's best to use in a certain situation and make a choice based on that
supposedly unbalanced and now asking for even less balance.
Qud's exactly like that though, but I'm sure you'll come up with even more mental gymnastics and insults to deny that.
>Not to mention that many of those items are so rare the player might never see one
Just like every roguelike, wow.
>And no, most races and classes are not worthless
Yes, most races/classes in ADOM are literally bloat nobody picks, also because ADOM in itself is a very mechanically shallow game and effectively most of those races and classes do little to nothing to begin with.
>And yes, to an extent spellbooks being RNG is an intended design choice. Again, it's giving the player a choice
Ahhh so we go back to square 1, it's good when *game I like* does it but bad when *game I dislike* does it
>How can you cheese ADOM with rings of Djinni summoning?
How can you cheese Qud with cooking considering recipe effects are procgenned, you need multiple skills for cooking to actually get broken effects AND you need to farm multiple ingredients, including super rare russian roulette style items like Neutron Flux (and have either Precog or a massive stock of Sphinx salt) to actually break the game with it?
Again, what are you talking about?
>but the difference is that Qud was specifically designed around expecting you to cheese the game.
Not really, no, you don't need any of that shit to get to Resheph and finish the game, in fact you can literally just run away from most shit and be totally fine, though I'm sure you'll also complain about this for some reason because of course you will.
>>>

>>3922817
>>3922803
>which is why lategame enemies are such a powerspike compared to earlier
They're really not, I don't think you understand what you're talking about, the only actually dangerous lategame enemies are Nephilims and super cherubs, both can be manhandled in a variety of ways.
>Qud is a roguelike where savescumming is included as an explicit and canon game mechanic.
Precog is fun, won't really save you from a lot of things either, you can also choose to simply not use it.
>"Mods fix it" is not an argument
I'm sorry for you but it is an argument, and no RL is ever released in a finished state unless the devs give up on it like ADOM so don't even try to pull this shit.
>You can be friendly or even revered with a faction, go halfway across the map to kill a bunch of monkies and when you return (even if you teleport back) your former friends will attack you on sight.
Then...don't kill the monkeys?
How is that a problem? You know shit like love injectors/beguile/etc. exist?
Do you also whine about fat fingering on an altar in ADOM and getting instagibbed by some mon that decided to instasacrifice you?
>It's even possible to be attacked instantly upon ending conversation
Literally check your faction's ratings, retard.
And again, use love injectors, use beguile, use proselitize, you have plenty of counterplay, I really don't see how this is an issue in any way.
>You lose access to his quest since it doesn't have any alternative questgivers, and the reputation and skills from water ritualling Mehmet.
Woooooooow big fucking deal, and this is a problem...how exactly? None of those quests are worth anything.
Argyve is the only marginally important NPC and it doesn't even matter if he somehow gets caught up in the crossfire (he won't) because you can still get the encrypted disk from his corpse and proceed through the main quest with no issue.
>>>

>>3922819
>The two of them have been living together for how many years, nothing going on, and then as soon as the player character arrives they decide to fight to the death?
Yeah, what's the matter? That's how the faction system works, you can arrive to Joppa just to witness a barfight or not, you can also just not start in Joppa entirely and use many other villages as a start, hell your start might even be in a fully abandoned village depending on the seed.
Again, how come ADOM's or Nethack RNG is good but Qud's isn't?
>You haven't actually explained the problems with Nethack or ADOM, though
I did, but you're mentally ill and deeply intellectually dishonest so it's pointless to argue, all you want is to shit on Qud because it's vastly more popular than your favorite games, you can't hide that, you've got a massive chip on your shoulder on top of a gaped anus.

And again, I've been playing RL for well over 25 years, I like Qud precisely because it's different from most of the genre and tries a new approach that nobody else is doing right now, flawed and with tons of wasted potential as it still is.
That doesn't mean I dislike the more traditional format of games like Angband, Zorbus, Brogue or whatever, I enjoy all of those games to some degree but I like them for different reasons and I'm not blind to their shortcomings either, nor do I make needlessly longwinded and hypocritical posts like you're doing, mostly because again, I'm not the one seething about a game being more popular and appreciated than other games.

>>3922820
Actually just to be very precise because I know your sad autistic ass will try to be smart about this:
>it's different from most of the genre and tries a new approach that nobody else is doing right now
Admittedly there is somebody who's trying to do something similar, there's CDDA, but with time CDDA has become a needlessly pedantic game that's actually suffering tremendously from simulationist bloat that Qud managed to sidestep for the time being, CDDA is no longer enjoyable as a game because both its community and devs have become too full of themselves much like you.

The only other game that kinda sorta scratches a similar itch is Shadow of the Wyrm but as much as I do like it it's too simplistic and limited for a lot of things and directly carries a lot of ADOM DNA which I heavily dislike, especially when it comes to spellcasters, Qud is still largely playing in its own field and is one of the best RL of the younger generation precisely because of that.
Are there more elegant systems? Sure, but none of those have the breadth Qud has, Elin showed promise but Noa has quickly lost his way, sadly enough.
Are there games with more indepth mechanics? Sure, if you like simulationism nothing comes close to UnReal World, DF's worldgen is still largely unmatched, but neither have the breadth of Qud.
Are there more mechanically unique games?
Sure, Cogmind is an excellent and again, much more mechanically elegant game but it scratches a different itch, URR is a fantastic experiment but charming as it is it's still largely unfinished and missing lots of feature, I could go on but the answer will still be the same.

>>3922728
Castle of the Winds (you) say...


https://store.steampowered.com/app/4313160/Castle_of_the_Winds/

>>3922815
>Turning liquids into different vapors through heat, for starters.
Wow, turning liquid into vapour and conditional movement speed. Truly genre-defining stuff that roguelike players have been crying out for. I'm sure that was worth the lack of focus on deeper combat mechanics, a faction system, equipment, or any other number of things that dev time could have gone to.

>No, using a source of heat is, usually, the more convenient way to deal with them provided you can deal with vapors, ideally the best solution is to freeze them unless it's lava, or you can fly over them, phase through them, you name it.
I'm talking about removing them, not getting through or around them.
>Sure, but there's tons of mechanics that Nethack doesn't have, which you conveniently ignore because you're clearly mentally ill and massively butthurt about Qud.
Oh, yeah, all those mechanics which you mentioned before. What were they, again? Oh, I forgot, you didn't have the time to mention them (even though you've kept replying this whole time).

>You can't unless you're an esper
A one-handed build can swing a sword just as well whether they're dismembered or not, as long as they've got at least one equipment slot to hold their sword it. Makes sense, right?
>Never saw that and I play with a shitload of mods
There's a public bug tracker you can go and have a look at to see what issues people are having. And it's not a memory leak issue, sometimes areas just fail to build properly because the game is poorly built. Again, the dev solution is "use dev tools lol"
>Yes actually, because that was an old screenshot I picked by mistake.
Right, six hundred hours isn't nearly enough to be able to comment on what a game is like. I'm sure if I play another couple hundred hours the hidden brilliance of the game will be revealed.

>>3922815
>>3922854
>You can also make it freezing if you so like, sharp is good but hardly the end of all for most melee weapons.
Luckily you can put more than one mod on a weapon, right? My point was that tinkering is an incredibly shallow system, almost every item and slot has a clearly best choice and that's what you'll use almost every game, over and over. You pick what's best for your build and that's that. It's nowhere close to the depth of an affix system where there's actually a cost and benefit to certain items.

>Pointless nitpicking, especially coming from somebody who's whining about the game being unbalance and now asking for even worse balance
I'm not complaining it's "unbalanced", you illiterate retard, I'm saying it's poorly designed. No game is ever perfectly balanced, and that shouldn't be the goal of a designer, but neither should designers just implement features without thinking about how the game actually plays.
>supposedly unbalanced and now asking for even less balance
Again, I'm asking for actual considered design instead of "here's the good option and the bad option, hope you didn't decide to gimp your character at creation, good luck"
>Qud's exactly like that though
How? You keep saying this, but never giving any examples as if "just trust me bro" was an argument. You pick the best weapons/items for your build and that's it.

>Just like every roguelike, wow.
Exactly, so it isn't an issue, is it? Glad we agree, or did you forget which side of the argument you were on?

>Yes, most races/classes in ADOM are literally bloat nobody picks,
lol
Again, revealing yourself as a shitter who can't play a real roguelike here
>also because ADOM in itself is a very mechanically shallow game and effectively most of those races and classes do little to nothing to begin with.
lol
Sure, my orc barbarian plays exactly the same as my hurthling archer as my dark elf wizard. It's all pressing buttons in the end.

>>3922815
>>3922855
>Ahhh so we go back to square 1, it's good when *game I like* does it but bad when *game I dislike* does it
So your argument is "both games have RNG, so they're the same even when the systems are completely different"? Exactly the level of literacy I would expect from a Qud fanboy, really. And nice job completely ignoring all my points about how it isn't just RNG in ADOM, unlike Qud.

>How can you cheese Qud with cooking considering recipe effects are procgenned, you need multiple skills for cooking to actually get broken effects AND you need to farm multiple ingredients, including super rare russian roulette style items like Neutron Flux (and have either Precog or a massive stock of Sphinx salt) to actually break the game with it?
You can get the entire Cooking tree as soon as you hit the Stilt or very soon afterwards, it costs less than 400 skill points.
You mean the Sphynx Salt you can buy in infinite amounts from vendors? Or dominate them and force them to give you your inventory? Along with the drops of nectar, cloning draught, neutron flux and polygel which you can all buy or take in infinte amounts from restocking vendors, and which let you set up a merchant farm to scum even more flux and polygel? All with no risk and very little investment (none if you're an Esper)? I dunno, how could you break the game with that?

I'm not even mentioning duplication tricks, or the fact that you can get warm static at level 1 with the right build and use it to get every skill and mutation in the game. Even "ordinary" cooking is busted since you can use it to give you triggered effects like massive healing or removing negative effects (up to stuff like mutating) whenever you drink water.

Again, how can you cheese ADOM with rings of Djinni summoning? You provided the example, support it.

>>3922817
>>3922857
>Not really, no, you don't need any of that shit to get to Resheph and finish the game, in fact you can literally just run away from most shit and be totally fine
Running away from everything, riveting gameplay. You can play as a pacifist in Nethack or ADOM too, by the way.

>They're really not, I don't think you understand what you're talking about, the only actually dangerous lategame enemies are Nephilims and super cherubs, both can be manhandled in a variety of ways.
Galgals that can chainstun you from outside your vision range, Rhinoxes that can oneshot you from outside your vision range even if you're not the one that alerted them, turret clusters than can oneshot you on turning a corner, chrome pyramids, high level sludges, evil twins (which can be spawned by fucking level geometry). I'm sure a player running into any of those for the first time will know exactly how to handle them.

>Precog is fun, won't really save you from a lot of things either, you can also choose to simply not use it.
The fact that the game is balanced around the player having access to a savescum mechanic speaks for itself. It alone is enough evidence that the devs are colossal retards who have no idea about roguelike or game design, and yet they're lucky enough to have drooling troglodytes like you actually defending their design.
>j-j-just don't use it
I wasn't the one who included it in the game, which is the issue.
>and no RL is ever released in a finished state unless the devs give up on it
Nobody's arguing that roguelikes shouldn't be iterated. Is it in the game? If I go and download the offical release version of Qud, is it included? No? Then it's not part of the game, is it, retard?

>>3922819
>>3922859
>Then...don't kill the monkeys?
>How is that a problem? You know shit like love injectors/beguile/etc. exist?
Once again, you're too dumb to actually understand what I've written. Stop seething and frothing at the mouth because someone's criticised your sacred furry cow and actually read. It's not a difficult system, I don't have trouble managing it. It's a dumb system, it's silly, it's poorly designed, and I'm giving you examples to show how badly designed it is. Is that simple enough for you or should I use smaller words?

>Literally check your faction's ratings, retard.
So it makes complete sense to you that you can be friendly with a faction, interact with one of their NPCs with them giving you a boon, and the second you stop talking they attack you because your reputation dropped too low from what they gave you? And you're the one who gets blamed for killing them when they attacked you first? That seems like a logical, well-developed faction system to you?
>and this is a problem...how exactly? None of those quests are worth anything.
It deprives you of content for no reason except the game arbirarily decided that you shouldn't get it. You don't get anything special for it, you don't see any alternative content. Nothing changes except your playthrough is worse just because some dev is a retard who can't into game design.

>Yeah, what's the matter? That's how the faction system works
Exactly. It's retarded, but you're so fucking dumb and committed to fellating this game and its retarded devs that you can't see the issue. "Working as intended".
>Again, how come ADOM's or Nethack RNG is good but Qud's isn't?
Again, you colossal retard, two systems aren't the same just because they use RNG. ADOM and Nethack use RNG in well-designed systems to create uncertaintly for the player. I don't recall any RNG in Nethack or ADOM that arbitrarily makes an NPC kill another NPC just to deprive the player of content.

>>3922820
>>3922832
>I did, but you're mentally ill and deeply intellectually dishonest so it's pointless to argue
Which is why you keep replying, right? Because it's pointless to argue. Face it, you haven't been able to back up a single one of your criticisms and just keep repeating "ADOM bad, Nethack bad" without being able to explicate any of your claims, as if anyone bothering to read your babble will be convinced that you actually know what you're talking about. But I guess I shouldnt've expected anything less from a Qud fanboy, the game does love its word vomit.

>I like Qud precisely because it's different from most of the genre and tries a new approach that nobody else is doing right now
So what does it actually do? What does it do well? What makes it worth playing? You keep talking it up as if it were something special, but the best you can come up with is that it simulates gases well and has a faction system (that as I've pointed out is retarded). You're saying it has "breadth", but it's as deep as a puddle.

>CDDA is no longer enjoyable as a game because both its community and devs have become too full of themselves much like you.
Doubly ironic considering the Qud devs were seething so hard at their playerbase for "misunderstanding" their snowflake donutsteel lore they retconned their own game multiple times.

Cogmind sucks.

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guess how rich i am

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Go get'em, tiger.

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>>3922937
Thank you, you may escort yourself to the scrapheap now and make way for the next cloneling. Now hand me that blaze injector.

that game looked sick until i saw roguelike

>>3922986
its not rly a rogue"like" desu
its pretty much just literally rogue

>>3923014
i would rather it were just like some old school 80s rpg that goes on linearly and lets u save before a battle. idk where this mind virus that being able to save ur game is bad came from. did that come from lazy game designers? or people trying to make rpgs more like arcade/platformers? was it some book at the top of amazon search and no one bothered to question it?

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>>3923020
>lets u save before a battle
That's for people who don't have a lot of time to master a single videogame, or those that jump from game to game every few weeks or worse.

I like CDDA forks, but it made me wish for a roguelike with involved rape mechanics. Not so I can jerk off, I just think it would be fun to rape.

>>3923039
rape is boring as hell, no challenge.

>>3923036
so you admit "roguelike" is just stuffing rpgs into a platformer or arcade form where you "master" it by replaying the same playthrough every night rather than slowly working your way through some epic adventure over a whole summer or winter. so i would say the case is actually the opposite of what you say. the "roguelike" is for the casual who plays games for one 45 minute playthrough and can't remember anything in the narrative from one day to the next.

>>3923044
Neither is the overwhelming majority of most roguelike mechanics.

>>3923020
>i would rather it were just like some old school 80s rpg
its called wizardry
>that goes on linearly and lets u save before a battle
nvm then
youre not gonna find many 80s CRPGs with that kind of leniency, if any

>idk where this mind virus that being able to save ur game is bad came from
you sound mindbroken from arguing with weird trannys on 4chins too much desu.you shouldnt do that so much, its bad for you, itll make you retarded/gay.
but more to the question: its like asking, "why do JRPGs have numbers in them?", or, "why do i gave to eat in a survival game?". its like that because its almost the whole point of the game. the gameloop is that there IS no "loop". you either get the [insert macguffin], or you die, and everything youve done/learned was for nothing [TRY AGAIN?] Y/N
do you not understand what rogue was? do you not understand what it was made on/for? it came out in 1980 ffs. making a large, linear, story-driven game was quite literally not possible given the tech of the early 80s. or at least, not to the point where it would still be worth playing today. the original rogue is STILL fun to play, in spite of its clunkyness; and thats mostly thanks to the fact that you cant save. they took a technical limitation and designed the whole game around it. the stakes being that high is what makes it so replayable

also
it sounds like youre mixing up/retroactively applying your disdain for modern indieshit fags and their """roguelikes""", with actual traditional rogue games that have permadeath. rogue predates all of that shit by literal decades. it is its own thing. if it doesnt have permadeath, it simply isnt the same kind of game

tl;dr
play an actual oldskool permadeath rogue game. think of it like an "arcade" version of an RPG, youll have a better time
if the OG is too archaic, id recc brogue, its ez to pick up and play due to its nice UI

>>3923049
>is
*are

>>3923059
>youre not gonna find many 80s CRPGs with that kind of leniency, if any
ultima? goldbox dnd? wiz 6 and up? dragon warrior? final fantasy?
>think of it like an "arcade" version of an RPG
that's exactly what i was hoping it wasn't, some 45 minute game loop for casualoids to watch on twitch

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Well fug

>>3923081
What kind of bullshit nonsensical writing is that?

>QUANTUM FUNGAL DIATRIBE
>+0.5 basket weaving DPS momentarily!

>>3923088
ai sloppies?

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>>3923070
lol no ones watching rogue on twitch you weird fucking dweeb. wtf are you even talking about lmao
are you literally underageb&? or just some sort of fully grown faggot? why?

>CoQtard so dumb he's giving attention to a transparent troll

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>>3923114
There's two of us.

>>3921898
Nethack is the only traditional one I've spent any significant time on, and after ascending once I don't feel like playing another for a long time.

Frogcomposband, but admittedly I have no idea if someone has forked of another version with more in it that I would probably be all over instead.

>>3923114
I stopped replying to that mentally ill retard after the last multipost meltdown, other people are not under my responsibility

>>3923313
>can't formulate an argument or answer simple questions
>just stops replying instead of admitting he's wrong
Many such cases
Concession accepted.

>>3922378
I wouldn't go that far, but it is a bit overrated, seeing as how I stumble across videos titled "it's the most replayable game" all the time. There's literally a ton more games as replayable if not moreso.

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>>3923187
levelled up a bit.

>>3922541
It is. You're the one lying. It's either that or you're stupid or you're just being contrarian in bad faith / insincerely (which is also lying).

>>3923349
>calling me a contrarian when you're the one saying all roguelikes are easy and lame
Top fucking kek
Where's the bloat in Nethack? Or Angband?

I went to play Nethack again and was baffled by their decision to make Minetown have a 1/7 chance to be useless. Talk about shitting on a game.

>>3923357
>bunch of Discord theorycrafters decide that a game is too fun and needs to be "balanced"
Many such cases, sadly. They also made stashing and the big E useless. Dumbest part is that instead of forking it like they should have (because they knew nobody would play their dumbass variant) they pushed it as an official release, so any newfag picking up the game for the first time won't know any better.
At least 3.4.3 is always there to be played.

>>3922698
>both Nethack and Angband are incredibly archaic
dude, what you're shitting on are the defacto roguelikes in this genre, you need to walk it back

>>3922986
then you thought the game looked perfect

>>3923200
it is inarguably the final form
but its also not for the faint of heart
you wouldnt recc the avg to "go play nethack". 9 times out of 10, theyll have a terrible time lol

>>3923361
I never really relied on Elbereth or pudding farming or anything, but yeah, that's what I did, just compiled 3.4.3 with a few patches. Minetown is the soul of Nethack, not to mention that killing Izchak and replacing him with orcs is fucking disrespectful. Nu-devs are the worst.

>>3922209
true, though more like nontent. it's a puddle deep procgen sandbox.

>>3923374
Agreed on all points. I never really used Elbereth either, but the fact that their approach was "this hidden technique was overpowered, better nerf it so that it's functionally useless in every situation" speaks for itself. Making the nerf even more unneccessary is that playing E-less is a popular conduct that has been recognised for ages.
>not to mention that killing Izchak and replacing him with orcs is fucking disrespectful. Nu-devs are the worst.
Yep. I bet most of the people who made those changes wouldn't even know who Izchak was.

>>3923364
nta its a highly flawed genre to begin with. agree with >>3923370 if you dont want to sign up for it just play isaac or hades like a normalfag

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>>3923376
I wish the game's genders were puddle deep

>>3923357
>>3923361
lol owned. crawl won

>>3923433
you are a moron with bad taste, fuck off to your hades

>>3922694
This nigga thinks Frogcompostband isn't an example of deliberate bloat.

>>3923364
I guess you also think Omega was a good game

>>3923494
Anon...

>>3923474
nethack is a bad game and that's a good thing

>>3923805
I mean sure there is unique monsters that you can play as such as The One Ring or a dragon, but you also have human warriors and shit too.

>>3923991
No, I meant that I deliberately included Frogcompostband as a joke, but the CoQfaggot was too dumb to realise (probably because he never played it)

>>3923470
More like everyone lost.

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>>3923470
it's not fair bros we had a new age of roguekino and the d*vil's team shot it out of the sky

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This thread has too many poseurs.

>>3922050
every fun option in DCSS got sandblasted out of it by the anal-retentive devs. it's the tofu of roguelikes.

>>3922620
it's a better game than ADOM, so sunk cost faggots love to hate on it.
it's not as fun as nethack or crawl or even brogue but still in the top tier

>>3922694
this nigger thinks sil, crawl and angbands don't all share devs
don't be this nigger
what a retard

>>3923313
looked like at least two mentally ill retards there, which one were you

>>3923356
Nethack is 99% bloat, kitchen sink oxce mod level

>>3923356
>>3925822
Any other roguelikes that literally have kitchen sinks in them? I know Cataclysm.

Probably Nethack, had a period like 18 years ago where I played it religiously. God damn, I'm getting old.
I don't remember the specifics but I also recall playing some telnet version where you could find levels other players died on. I mostly recall it because some nigger put a half-eaten troll in a chest which sprung out when I opened it and murdered my ass.

>>3925848
>telnet
I used to play ADOM via SSH while at work.
Good times.

>>3922304
I never see anyone talk about Tome 2 but it's cool. It has wild class and character building options like Tome 4 is known for, but it doesn't have 4's terrible MMO cooldown combat.

>>3922050
DCSS is such a chore to play. It's so boring. I have no idea what people see in it. 99% of fights are meaningless trash and the hardest challenge is staying awake enough to notice when something dangerous is happening.

>>3922620
The biggest problem is the cooldown based combat and class resource management that mean that most classes fight by spamming their one optimal combo in the one optimal order.
The versions I played were quite old so something may have changed, but you had so many options for protecting yourself like escape, healing, generating force fields and so forth, and they all recharged too, so nothing could kill you unless it could one shot or stunlock you, which led to very unsatisfying gameplay all around.

>>3922050
My issue with DCSS is having to keep up with updates, changes, metas and stuff. It's hard to get properly invested in a roguelike meant to be "strategic" when it changes completely every other week. I remember one of the things I found the most interesting about it was the hunger and eating mechanic and how it affected the difficulty of each race, and when I went to play it again it was gone.

>>3926053
That's just many games in general now. A community forms around a game and circlejerks along with the dev(s) on Discord and then they release countless updates over years. Just look at Underrail. I think it's because a lot of them are addicted to live service games.

>>3925925
Just set tabstop to 80, force_more on reds and let it rip

>>3925922
and it all started as a variant known as pernangband

>>3925848
>half-eaten troll in a chest
Fucking amazing

>>3926537
It's a fairly normal way of dealing with trolls.

>>3923356
That's such a pathetic failure of an attempt at gaslighting it's just so fucking adorable.

>>3922707
ADOM isn't even old. It sat in v1.1.1 from the '90s for like twenty years but got a massive update only a few years ago. It has a goddamn GUI and sprites now.
If you're arguing that the game design is old, that's like saying that art is old because the physical artifact is a few decades old. It's not something that ages. It's an abstract idea. It's just as good today as it ever was or will ever be.

>>3922728
Ok, Boomer.

>>3927379
>>3927383
>>3927385
lol, no wonder my filtered threads have jumped up this week

>>3927390
And here you are...

>>3927407
and here i remain dot dot dot, mocking you kids dot dot dot

>>3927379
I accept your concession.

Dungeonmans
One of the few "funny" games that is actually funny.

>>3927562
That's not how that works at all. Pathetic. Still pathetic. Ugh.

>>3927588
Still nothing meaningful or relevant to say? Once again, concession accepted.
Please continue to cope, seethe, etc. at your convenience.

>>3927574
I didn't find that or Dredmore funny in the least.
Even Liberal Crime Squad is funnier.

>>3927629
A new, unsurprising failure. Seems like that's just your safe space.

>>3928120
>>3927629

>>3928047
Liberal Crime Squad is actually pretty funny at times.