Combat > Story
you were not even born when ff7 was released.
>>3941733both the story and combat in FF7 are great. The combat doesn't need to be mechanically deep; It needs to be effective, satisfying and quick, all of which it excels at.
You’ve posted this shitty thread like six or seven times in the last couple weeks
>>3941750I thought so too. Groundhog day.
This would be a perfectly reasonable point if there was any JRPG whatsoever with good combat prior to FFVII
>>3941747>The combat doesn't need to be mechanically deepThis is why everything sucks now, isn't it... Fucking hell, I hate the average gamer
>>3942293Its not FF 1-6 were particularly deep mechanically, unless you count exploiting bugs.
>>3941747The new story makes no sense.And it's FF VII we are talking about, the original game already had its own issues.
>>3941747i dunno, i think most jrpgs from the psx era really needed needed some difficulty settings. ff7 is ok for a kid but it would be nice to feel like engaging with the systems mattered
>>3946189>i think most jrpgs from the psx era really needed needed some difficulty settings. ff7 is ok for a kid but it would be nice to feel like engaging with the systems matteredThe player can choose to make the game more difficult for themselves by self-imposing rules and restrictions to his hearts content. A quick perusal of GameFAQs will show dozens of flavors of autistic challenge runs and gimmick playthroughs. This was back in the day before muh cheevos and muh “engaging with mechanics” when players just wanted to have fun
>>3946189Xp and leveling is a built-in difficulty slider and always has been. You want the game easier? Grind more. Harder? Grind less.
>>3946194>The player can choose to make the game more difficult for themselves by self-imposing rules and restrictions to his hearts content.No they can't.JRPGfags always claim this, but can never discuss how the game actually supposedly becomes strategically interesting beyond vaguely alluding to the idea. The layers of restrictions often end up begin ridiculous for little payoff given how few of these game have any thought put into balanced challenge at all.
>>3946406There are such discussions all the time. You just never see them because you are so stupid no one wants to talk to you.
>>3941733But final fantasy IV started that trend...
Bold of you to assume anyone even plays ff for its story or combat, and not for Tifa's tits
>>3946194>>3946406>by self-imposing rules and restrictions to his hearts content.In other words>You're just playing it wrong by using the tools the developer purposely put into the game! It's a good game if you don't play it!>You're at fault for playing the game wrong! It's not the developer's fault for making a shitty game!
>>3946161>the original game already had its own issues.Not really. There's very little about the original FFVII that doesn't make sense.
Materia is a bad system, you have far too many slots and the intresting materia Don't show up until the game is overYou pretty much just cast bolt and cure for half of the game. Most of those slots are just to feed ap into them because why not?Remake and rebirth are bad but they fixed this massively lowering the slots and giving you more intresting options
>>3950185>But final fantasy IV started that trend...First one actually. 2 and 3 continued, with probably as much story as they could fit into those lil cartridges.
>>3951018>the intresting materia Don't show up until the game is overI mean this problem is not just for FFVII. Many JRPGs give you the strongest weapons/spells only in post-game. It's just a reward, not a boss-killing solution.>You pretty much just cast bolt and cure for half of the gameThis is not even the materia system's fault.
>>3951021True and it's not good design.Ff7 you pretty much just cast 2 spells and auto attack the entire game. I played half of it in 3x speed including bosses. I wouldn't call that good gameplay
>>3951022You haven't shown a proper argument of why the system sucks, instead it just demonstrates a poor usage of the system not the materia system itself.Your critiques wouldn't work if those encounters you mention just straight-up nullify elemental spells. I think you are also confused in criticizing either FF7 or the materia system itself.
>>3951035If only one game uses a system and it uses it badly then the system is bad. This seems like a weird gotcha instead of trying to make an argument as too why it's good. You admit you pretty much only use two things for the entire game, and that's bad. We both know it's boring, and the game gives you so many slots it doesn't even have a unique choice aspect. Basically shut up you stupid redditor nigger
>>3951041>If only one game uses a system and it uses it badly then the system is bad."It's bad because I said so!">This seems like a weird gotcha instead of trying to make an argument as too why it's goodFunny how you thought it was a gotcha? I was confirming how nonsensical your claims are.>You admit you pretty much only use two things for the entire game, and that's badNever admitted those things. Just to highlight your claim that "I only used elemental spells and it always works, so the materia system is bad!" just doesn't make any sense.>Basically shut up you stupid redditor niggerBasically you don't want to discuss about the materia system but just want to shit on FF7 just because it's more popular than your game.
>>3951035>confused in criticizing either [game] or a system itself.Far too common. Unable to see and distinguish multiple factors.
>>3951046Yeah a system where you are stuck only using the lamest shit until the game is over is bad.Not reading the rest of this, turbo cringe reddit behavior
>>3951066>Yeah a system where you are stuck only using the lamest shit until the game is over is bad.Basically every JRPG that you dislike with. Barking on the wrong tree.>turbo cringe reddit behaviorDon't care, you're more cringe with your lame-ass nothing-burger of a critique.
>>3951022>I played half of it in 3x speedthis is a strong sign the problem is with you, and not with the game.
>>3951311>this is a strong sign the problem is with you, and not with the game.nta but he's not wrong, as someone who played the game back in the day (and still has his copy) and is currently replaying it I can say with the benefit of hindsight the game is slow, dialog windows, animations and transitioning between set pieces are all slow affairs.
>>3952160I just replayed the game a few years back, and have the opposite opinion: I was amazed at how quick and snappy the game was, especially for its age.
>>39510201and 3 barely have a story at all compared to 2, and 2 was also more mechanically ambitious than either
>>3941733JRPG combat is godawful so might as well focus on what they can sort of do better.
>>3951311I'm sorry you find a boring ass game intresting enough to sit though it. I got about to the black materia gets stolen by cait sith and it was like alright I saw enough. Let's wrap this up now
>>3951219My nothing burger critique is still something you can't defend lol.It's literally just true and it's lame. Go have another melty tho
>>3951066This is the internet equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and screaming "LA LA LA LA" Basically, you're a faggot
>>3952291Yeah because there is nothing to defend. It doesn't actually critique anything>have another melty thoWell aren't you 'avin one
>>3941733Story > Combat
>>3946189>ff7 is ok for a kidMaybe this is a more important point than we think. The game's difficulty level didn't bother me or anyone my age that I knew back then. Nowadays, I notice how easy it is, but I also notice that practically every JRPG is fundamentally easy. Even the "hard" ones usually just come down to using buffs and debuffs more, or more trips back to town to restock. I still find FFVII's battles more fun than most RPGs despite you rarely being threatened. The game gives you a lot of options to keep battles interesting even just screwing around. Setting up materia combinations is fun. I also enjoy doing the Battle Square where you're working around random handicaps, that's a great idea that more games should copy.Thankfully, if you want difficulty out of the game as an adult, there are at least mods like New Threat to give you a hard mode. But sometimes mods/romhacks can also make you realize just how much the rest of a game was designed around the intended difficulty. An RPG's pacing is hurt sometimes when random battles become too drawn out or likely to kill you, or when too many bosses make you restart. Playing a poorly made hack of something often gives me some more respect for how they balanced the original game, even if it's balanced to be easy. Basically, JRPG difficulty is usually just added friction for flavor, rather than the type of difficulty you get from an arcade game. Something like Dragon Quest 2 is harder than Final Fantasy VII overall, but its difficulty is still something you'll overcome eventually without much struggle as long as you keep playing. That extra friction matters for creating certain experiences (like plundering a dungeon and narrowly escaping, or bosses that require you to rework your setup a few times), but it's not something needed for every RPG. Smoother experiences like FFVII can feel good too. It all depends on what you're in the mood for.
>>3946406>but can never discuss how the game actually supposedly becomes strategically interesting beyond vaguely alluding to the idea.Final Fantasy games, because they give you so many options in battles, are interesting for challenge runs because you'll end up using strategies and tools you would never be forced to use otherwise. Like all those random attack items, or using status effects more, etc. Or paying more attention to enemy scripts. Even something like Zeromus in FFIV, you can recognize that he uses Big Bang at certain times, and uses spells as a counter to certain attacks. So you can beat him at low levels with Kain if you know what you're doing (using Slow, timing Jump to avoid Big Bang and using reflect items to bounce back other spells like Flare, which you can trigger yourself by using potions on Zeromus). https://youtu.be/T0hWpyRkLcYIt's cool sometimes how bosses that seem like they require higher levels can actually be beat at low levels with creative strategies.
>>3953811FF7 was probably enough to put a first timer's head on a spin, no need to have difficult combat on top of that. And the majority of audience doesn't necessarily even crave challenge.
I like FF7 Materia system but think the growth of each Materia could be made more nuanced
>>3953761Being stuck with 2 spells the whole game is bad, you agreed with me until suddenly it wasn't an issue anymore. Don't worry though the remake did actually fix it quite a bit
>>3954402You still don't understand do you.You are critiquing the game, not the materia system itself
>>3941733Both the story and the combat in FFVII fucking blow and it was far from being the first offender when it comes to that
>>3954431The system in 7 is bad, you are agreeing with me but throwing a tantrum that it doesn't count anyways for some reason like genuinely I don't get what you get out of this. It's really true, no point in arguing with a moron.
>>3954458You keep projecting that I agreed with you, get off my dick dude. Classic narc stuff.Keeps saying "It's useless to argue at this point" and yet you keep replying with continuous nothingburger shit.
>>3941733you missed a spot with the fill tool
>>3954682You clearly do or you would tell me it's perfectly fine that you only use cure and bolt for half of the game
>>3954981>for half of the gameAre we talking about the game, or the system?If you are saying that FFVII encounters are braindead easy for someone who loves exploiting the materia system, I would agree. But you keep saying that "i can use bolt and cure all the time, so materias suck"You don't see the stupidity in this?
