Since a Romancing thread went awhile, how about a general discussion of the assorted SaGa games?The original gameboy series, known as Final Fantasy Legend in the west, the Romancing series on the SNES which the west didn't get until the mobile remasters and Minstrel Song remake, the Frontier series for the PlayStation... and the other stuff that has it's fans probably maybe.A hodgepodge of divergent and experimental jrpgs, from the usual Squaresoft fare and even from it's own series or within each series, made by the annoying contrarians and heretics within Square who got given shoestring budgets and left to make what they want.
>>3945497>who got given shoestring budgets and left to make what they want.It is interesting they managed to somehow hobble along.
>>3945497Explain the regions please? Is the world of SaGa like 1980s Flash Gordon?
>>3945689SaGa Frontier is just a bunch of random garbage thrown together. Awful game.
>>3945526Why do I love Scarlet Grace but hate Emerald Beyond?
>>3945742Ok, but the first three on GB?
>>3945689You know how planar travel works in D&D? It's kinda like that.You've got all these separate worlds floating in a weird sort of astral sea that you can cross with special Region ships that work kinda like a spelljammer ship, alternatively you can also just open a dimensional door and jump from one world to another if you're a powerful enough mage like Blouge or Virgil.SaGa 1, 2 and Emerald Beyond work on a system of doors built by either divine beings or some powerful civilizations.
>>3945781So…Yggdrasil?
>>3945742Fuck off filtered pleb
>>3945689>>3945742it's not a bad game, just a REALLY poor choice to start the saga franchise with.
I can't stand how people in these games just drop everything to join your party with usually no setup or explanation. It's like every actual party member has the setup of an npc summon from Octopath.
>>3945968This is yet another myth about these games, outside of a couple of exceptions like Slime in SF1 that are largely comedic or adventurer types like Gray who're explicitly in it for the thrill of the trip every recruitable always has some story behind them even if a certain main character might not see it, most recruitable characters are usually locked behind questlines too.
>>3945812The region are in about all the SaGa games
>>3946053bruh, just boot up Saga Frontier, pick a character, get to the bar or whichever place they lumped a bunch of characters into, and have a bunch of people tag along after a short banter and then act like they're close comrades in events immediately.
>>3945526Kawazu decided to get rid of dungeons for this one. Then for Emerald Beyond, how about we remove healing in combat and shops in towns? What will he come up with next for the blue-themed game?
>>3948096I was able to beat Scarlet Grace and Emerald Beyond without any healing in battle, so I guess Kawazu is already there.
>>3945497I've been enjoying the remake of Romancing SaGa 2, but for reasons different from what I typically enjoy in a SaGa game. Rather than making stuff work with what you have, you're encouraged to minmax your build and create the most optimal party composition. I enjoy this type of challenge, though this is not something that any RPG fan, let alone a SaGa fan, would also enjoy. It goes against the idea of roleplaying, and for some, that's a red flag in RPGs.
>>3945812I started with Frontier 1. What's a better starting point?
>>3950219SaGa Frontier 1 is fine to start with.
>>3945497I’ve never played any of these games. Will I ever stop seeing the logo as “Salsa”?
>>3945497SaGa 1 is still among my favorite olf rpgs. The leveling can be wonky and sometimes your mutants rock and sometimes they suck, but that always adds a different twist of challenge. I love that the story is both simple but feels poignant.
>>3950533Reminds me of The Dark Tower in a way
>>3950533Outside of being the quintessential "Kill God" story I just really like the meta side of it all
>>3952006Can’t help but feeling like opening a door and it’s just this side pocket reality
>>3952006I like that when you get to the top God thinks he's congratulating you and expecting to be praised but instead you tell him to go fuck himself and then OHKO him by chopping him in half with a chainsaw.
>>3950533Secret of Varonis is pretty good.
>>3952373Nyet
>>3952564Thoroughly elaborate or deliver a written apology.
>>3952569In short, it copies so much of Saga 1 and 2, that it’s “originally “ is thrown out the window. The combat is balanced, but the overall story is almost lifted with no real grace. It’s a mockup of 2 more than anything.
>>3952844That's the perfect description of a "pretty good" game. A copy of something great.
>>3953941That’s waste
>>3950765How so? I’m new to this saga stuff and all I’m getting from saga is that it’s like Final Fantasy but if it stayed it’s classical self, correct?>>3950765Multiversal tower that tethers reality?
>>3954884SaGa 1's about a bunch of nondescript gonzo fantasy murderhobos climbing a tower because legend says that if you get to the top you'll enter Heaven, meet the Big G himself and he'll grant you a wish, allegedly.Said tower is not only a gruesome dungeon filled with monsters but it also has doors that lead to various worlds, the story is surprisingly good for a game so old and simple so I won't spoiler you the fine details, it's best to experience it for yourself so you see what all the fuss is about.>it’s like Final Fantasy but if it stayed it’s classical selfIt depends on what you mean by classical self because most people consider FF4-10 to be classical FF and SaGa has nothing to do with that.Kawazu was the main designer for the first two Final Fantasy and SaGa branches off those two titles in particular, it polishes and greatly expands FF2's character building system while also keeping the focus on party building and non invasive main story of the first FF, there's a lot of other recurring elements and tropes from the first two FF games that Kawazu loves like pirates, fairies, emperors etc. but overall SaGa goes in a very different direction, FF focuses more and more on the spectacle, accessibility and grand narrative while SaGa keeps experimenting with complex systems, non linear world building and fuckhuge casts of characters.
>>3945497Unfinished piece of crap. Charming crap, sure. Still unfinished. Rs3 and sf2 are best.
>>3954926I thought rs1 is unfinished?
>>3954974They had to cut a lot of content because Nintendo didn't give them a bigger cartridge, to some degree this was fixed in the Wonderswan remaster but Minstrel Song (remastered) is the definitive version of the game with all the intended content and more.
>>3954884Yes and yes
>>3950533How could rs3 and ff2 leveling be improved?>>3954984Not playing bobbly head. The modern saga games like emerald are unplayable for me. I doubt they will make the rs3 remake good. The rs2 remake is much worse than the source.>>3948323Am on my third rs3 run. Never beat all secret bosses nor the mikhail mini game. What's the reward for the latter? I think I need 800hp for the super bosses, where to get? Nothing to find online for this game.
>>3945497The combat mechanics of the games are so underrated. There should be more games that play like the SaGa games.
>>3945742saga frontier is the only saga game you or anyone should ever play. and by play i mean spend 85% researching shit rather than actually play
>>3954926>complex systems, non linear world building and fuckhuge casts of characters.none of them are memorable and has as much depth as FF characters
>>3955453>none of them are memorableReally? I thought a ton of them are memorable. Literally every protagonist in SaGa Frontier and it's sequel alone were memorable. >has as much depth as FF charactersNot true if you aren't spoiled by voice-acted cutscenes and drama, the characters in SaGa Scarlet Grace are actually really dynamic and well written, same for SaGa Frontier 2... Hell there's even a lot of interesting stuff going on in the background of Minstrel Song.
>>3955453You are supposed to grow out of angsty teenage dramas like Final Fantasy.
>>3955638>2026>Seriously engaging with trolls
>>3955151>Not playing bobbly headSure, you can do that. For me it's easily the best RPG I've played so far.
>>3956508Everyone or nearly everyone says so. Some artstyle repell me successfully.
>>3955638Personal tastes differ I guess.>>3955639>not appreciating angst in JRPGs>>3955640>dismissing any statement as trolling while simultaneously not contributing anything to the discourse
>>3956579You're not here to contribute anything, go back.
>>3956596If you can't handle a hint of discourse, reddit might be more suitable
>>3956598Dropping insults while also dismissing other people pointing it out is not discourse, go back to your final fantasy threads, nobody wants you here.
>>3956604Who was being dismissive in the first place?
I own the following:RS2 (HD, not the remake)RS3 HDMinstrel Song RemasteredScarlet Grace (PS4)Frontier Collection of SaGa Which one is the best to start with? Saga 1? RS2?
>>3956987Frontier is an easy one to start with and many recommend it for your first Saga game.Minstrel Song is the one I started with and it was incredible, but it could be a bit overwhelming for a first game.Saga 1 is a lot of fun, it's very simple and easy to understand, just dont make something like a 4-Mutant party until you understand the game more. It was also ported to the Wonderswan if that interests you. Honestly it depends on which one catches your eye more, these games are not very long and theyre extremely replayable so the time investment isnt big if you just intend to play each of them once.
>>3945742>>3945750Dont listen to him. Saga Frontier is pure magic. Every single character experience. It's amazing. Just block the light take a week off and consume the magic. You might have to take breaks between 6-12 hr sessions I did it right after launch as a kid during a 3 month summer break from school.
>>3956987IMO the only two games you might not want to start with are Minstrel Song and Scarlet Grace, the former because it's very mechanically dense and sort of a collection of mechanics from nearly ever game that came out before that, the latter because it's a very different format compared to every previous game and doesn't do a great job at immediately showcasing the series' strong points like other entries, both are more oriented towards the hardcore side of the userbase, they also have a lot more cameos and throwbacks to older games than everything else on your list if that's a problem to you.
I got the RS2 Remake on sale and started it as my first SaGa experience Fantastic so farI really enjoy the openness of it all, but the tutorialization they added is just enough to explain concepts which I believe translate somewhat to other titles
>>3952373I looked it up and quite like the idea, but wish they hadn't also tried to mimic the gameboy graphics style. Not to say I'd need it to be a full HD graphics fest, but the aesthetic of the old SaGa games are the least appealing thing about them for me and it feels a little lazy. Still, going to put it on my list of it ever comes to Switch or I eventually get a steam deck.
Is there any point to using the Hunter shift formation in RS2 over the Free fight 1? Free fight 1 just seems better in every way.
>>3959823https://romancing-saga-2.blogspot.com/p/gameplay.html#formationsAlways consult this for formations because the game doesn't explain shit.
Sometimes a series is obscure for a reason.SaGa favors innovation over literally anything else related to the game, and without regard to considering maybe there's a reason why games do recurring things.
>>3959823Really there's no point in using anything other than Rapid Stream and Amazon Raid.The original RS2 was bugged so the defend-after-attacking bonus was wrongly given to a ton of formations.
>>3964859Dragon Stance is worth using too if you're using shields. Otherwise, yeah, just stick to those formations. Amazon Raid can be obtained as early as the 1st or 2nd timeskip assuming you cleared the Canal Fortress and made any female emperor (Preferably City Thief/Vagabond F because they have the Wild flag which is necessary for the Armed Merchant quest), and then go to the Amazon Village in Salamat to recruit the Amazon.
Fighting Dantarg as Gerard was a mistake. Never again.
>>3964780SaGa's recurring thing is innovation so there's that.And let's be real here, if they actually had some fucking budget to spend in other areas of the games like they did in the past they'd do it, look at Romancing SaGa 2 or 3, the design of games like SSG or EB is a product of severe budget constraints rather than misguided focus.
>>3964932How do you even reach him. I tried doing that with remaster and remake and even skipping as many battles as possible and the goblin den I couldn't get there in his timeline.
>>3965248i get that games are more expensive to dev now and JRPGs peak popularity is joeover, but it still cost a ton of money to keep online mobage shit online and "live". also the mobage games are obviously focusing on nostalgia bucks rather than quality or graphix.
>>3965347Despite making ridiculous amounts of cash in its heyday RSRS always costed literal peanuts to maintain and develop for, it's partly why SE tried to push it even in the west for a whole three and a half years, that shit made crazy dosh at basically zero costs to the point GL servers piggybacked entirely on JP's profit until JP sizzled down.The real outrage is that most of the money RSRS made went directly into SE coffers to fund unrelated trash and the games proper got fucking nothing to work with, and it stings even more to think this would happen when Kawazu is near retirement.
>>3965366>costed literal peanutsi don't think peanuts are worth as much as you think they do. and i never paid my ISP in bags of peanuts to host my old email or website.
>>3960022Is there an English website like this for SaGa Frontier? I remember there was a detailed site with walkthroughs, overpowered magic and the like but I can't find it anymore
>>3965644there's thishttps://essenceofsaga.wordpress.com/
>>3964932I killed him fourth and he absolutely crushed me until I just gave up and just went hyper aggressiveRosebouquet, third one, was so easy compared to thisI'm gonna get Subier next and it seems I powered him up by killing the narwhal boss
>>3964932Fighting Dantarg at any moment is a mistake. Having him as my second hero really spoiled the rest of the game because no other hero was as hard as he was, the closest one being Noel
>>3965644>>3965652https://fantasyanime.com/gameshttps://fantasyanime.com/saga/sagafront.htmFantasyanime RPG shrines have been online for ages, zoomzooms.the "walkthroughs" link just goes to the Gfaqs page though. someone should archive those before Fandom kills that websight. read the "mechanics" FAQ for max autistism and optimisation.>inb5 banned for deadnaming a ded websight.
How much do the HD versions of Romancing Saga change from the original SNES games?
>>3965325The time skip will trigger if you've gained enough battles and event points. You have to skip the Canal Fortress and go south. Then, make sure you don't have 240 battles or more, as that will trigger a time skip. Even with less than 240 battles, it will trigger a time skip if the remainder of your generational battles / 16 is less than the event points you've accumulated so far, excluding the event points you got from a quest you just completed.
I just recently found out there's a manga for Romancing SaGa 1 and 2. If only I can understand Japanese.
>>3965773Some bug fixes, I belive Romancing SaGa 2 added in a scale to check weight and another one for logic. There's also an added optional dungeon for Romancing SaGa 2 and 3. I never touched them since they weren't part of the original releases, but those dungeons can contain stronger monsters to power level better, items, classes, or even expand upon certain characters stories.
>>3965773Faster animations, HD backgrounds, bug fixes, added content. Only reason to play the SFC version is if you want to see what the original backgrounds look like as well as knowing Japanese. Translation patches for the game are incomplete.
>>3965652So it is true, their “world” is like Mongo, kinda. An ethereal mass with “islands” orbiting a white dwarf. Cool!
>>3965773>New backgrounds>More info in the UI when it comes to commands and formations>More save slots>A journal function>Comprehensive bugfixes even though there's also a couple of new bugs >NG+ function>New content, and the option to play with or without itTo be more specific on the last point, RS2 adds two new classes and a dungeons+items that were originally cut in the SNES version but added in the old mobile port, the remaster adds a new small endgame questline on top.RS3 adds a new dungeon with new items and some restored enemies that were originally cut and dummied out in the SNES release, this optional dungeon has content that also expands on some characters' stories.Everything else is the exact same as the original releases including game balance outside of some bugfixes like RS2 Wind Cutter being bugged in the original and working as intended in the remaster, as the others already mentioned they make the original releases obsolete outside of the new backgrounds which are questionable but not terrible.
>>3966340I would say the RS2 backgrounds are outright better then the original's outside of the very last area which feels a bit RPGmaker tier. RS3 it's a bit more mixed since RS3 has a lot more production compared to 2.
Oh cool, another Romancing SaGa collab, I wonder who's going to appear as a cameo... Oh, it's Rocbouquet again.
>>3966340>backgrounds which are questionable but not terribleI always wondered what was the big idea behind it? Making the backgrounds blend in with thr sprites couldn't be that hard as in costly. Why did the fail this bad?
>>3966340Actually I did forget one thing they changed, RS2 no longer has the visual filter when you dash, I always forget that.>>3967595If you look at them closely you can see they're actually pixelated rather than being fully smooth like the Suikoden 2 remaster, so there was at least an attempt at making something that could blend with the sprites.As to why it largely failed I suppose it was a combination of Artepiazza being new to Unity development at the time, the Vita's odd internal resolution and the low budget.
>>3967702>internal resolutionThat might be a reason. Would be too costly to recreate new assets. So what, they get like 600k and have to shit out a functioning version?
Remasters also fixed a ton of bugs and broken formulas.And like the other guy said the original wasn't exactly visually stunning with it's BGs.
>>3967740Wasn't romancing saga always just the R&D of square? When some personnel had some spare time between blockbuster entries, they went to the saga team. That's what I remember reading. Would make sense, as the games are unfinished messes.
>>3945497I played SaGa Frontier and replayed SaGa Frontier 2 recently, and I had a blast with both of them, though they are very different kinds of stories. Tried playing some other SaGa games though and none of them really captured me.
>>3968261SaGa 2 Hihou Densetsu is very similar to Frontier 1 races wise, maybe that will be your thing
Uh oh, got here quicker then I thought I would.What's the ideal ranks for the endgame?
>>3967747>>3967740RS3 looks bretty gud for a SNES game.
>>3969841You can get by with aptitude levels in the 40s, same as the original. I've personally seen someone beat the final boss with aptitude levels in the mid 10s but on the remaster.
>>3969841>>3970226I had a terrible time with the end boss.
>>3971482I suggest picking up the evasion tech for Flowing Slash. You can get it from Sefirah. Having a Fire Wall user also helps. Other evasion techs worthy of note is Skewer, Plasma Thrust and Divine Lancer, though the latter two can only be found on one of the Seven Heroes.
>>3969841in RS2 original putting 2 or even 3 healers in mist cover just werked. Maybe it still works in rots, I haven't played it
https://www.reddit.com/r/JRPG/comments/1stdfmx/saga_series_arrives_for_the_first_time_on_gog_drm/
>>3970226>I've personally seen someone beat the final boss with aptitude levels in the mid 10s but on the remaster.What team did he use?
>>3971744I think it was Final Emperor M, Mole, Nereid, Armed Merchant and Crusader M. I could be wrong on some of the classes he got. I believe he used Amazon Strike formation.
I started the pc port of romancing saga minstrel song recently, no experience with the franchise (I played hat world which has glimmer and stat growth without levels I guess). Any tips or anything I should know? I'm doing albert first and got walled pretty hard by the boss in the cave in valhalland (the one with like 5 adds). I ended up managing to beat it because Sif glimmered a good skill and 2 shot the boss but albert himself is a completely useless medkit bitch at the moment.. I'm aware grinding makes the enemies stronger so I haven't killed any random mobs. If nothing else I'd like to know at least if its safe to invest in the side characters or if I'll lose them in some event and get softlocked with 50hp prince hitting mobs for 1% of their hp.
>>3974431characters with profession names are mercenary characters and will disappear from bars halfway into the game. so dont invest in that valhallan warrior too much. they're early game filler members. you can use them the entire game if you want but if you dismiss them you wont be able to recruit them back in late game.
>>3974431MS is very complex so it's hard to give people a comprehensive primer, to address what you've written though:Fights in MS can be tough because bosses tend to hit hard and shut you down fast if you don't know how to play, remember that status effects, buffs and debuffs are all extremely powerful and you should use them, combos, classes and equipment are all extremely important as well but that's way too much to talk about in a single post.Grinding shouldn't be avoided because it makes enemies stronger, it should be avoided until the endgame because the game's world is on a clock and fighting makes the clock tick, so certain questlines will autosolve before you're able to take them and you end up missing on dungeons, story and rewards, the game wants you to fight but do it intelligently, if you avoid everything on your road to a boss fight then you'll be way too weak to win because you won't be able to get better stats and most importantly learn new techs so do fight but don't actively grind.Speaking of Albert, he starts weak compared to people like Sif or Hawke but he grows pretty quickly to compensate, Sif is there to carry you in the very early game so don't worry if Albert feels weak early.I do suggest you to decide on what Albert is going to do and focus on that because SaGa's systems inherently reward focused builds, the game gives you stats depending on what actions you take during fights and since you have to manage the number of fights you get into it's best to focus on a specific set of non-conflicting actions to maximize growth economy until the endgame when you'll be free to fight and grind as much as you like.That means if you want Albert to be a weapon user decide between STR (Great swords or Axes) and DEX focused weapons (short swords or bows), if you want Albert to be a caster focus on INT or COM (Pyrology and Hydrology respectively for instance) growth with maybe some DEX on the side since unlike STR it has growth synergy with INT/COM.
Unlimited Saga remake built like Rom Sag 2?
>>3976143Would much prefer a classy remaster like Minstrel Song or SF1 and SF2. Preserve the game but add extra unobtrusive content, fix bugs and maybe make the menus a little nicer etc.
>>3945497I always found it strange that this series has such lukewarm reception in the west. You would think the non-linearity and freedom would make the games appealing but I guess the expectation of JRPGs are pigeonholed to be linear, cinematic affairs like FF
>>3976441The originals, as Final Fantasy Legend, did pretty well.Romancing series flat out wasn't brought over until the remaster and 2 never got a complete fan translation.The others... were wonky enough to be a quick turnoff, and the series' visual aesthetic deteriorated into typical anime nonsense over time.
I've dismissed all these as being garbage since I've played several of them. Are there any hacks that attempt to fix the main issue they have where fighting battles makes the game harder?These are basically anti-rpgs.
>>3977149>These are basically anti-rpgs.These games are heavily modeled after tabletop RPGs and were designed by a huge tabletop RPG autist hence why shit like dynamic encounters exists in the first place. If you want a game where you can just mindlessly grind and diminish any sort of challenge then go play literally any other JRPG.
>>3957179SaGa Frontier 1 is so good it makes me upset that 99% of humans are filtered by it. a camera rotating around a prerendered environment with 2D sprites is perfection, every time you spark deflect or kasumi is kino, gen joining your party over and over and over is so good. 28 years later i can't even put into words how good this game is.
Only one I've played was SaGa 2 on the DS remake. Man that game had some... weirdly intricate mechanics. Like, I've never had to write myself an Excel spreadsheet while playing an RPG before this one, but it was definitely a fun experience.And I absolutely love how your main character can be A DRAGON, like a straight-up actual dragon. Not just a human who can turn into a dragon. But then I learned how the monster system works and unintentionally gave myself a sort of challenge run because I limited myself to only using dragon-related transformations so I could stay in-character.
>Romancing Saga Characters as AnimalsAlbert - Sun ConureAisha - Kyrgyz HorseHawke - Sooty AlbatrossGray - Timber WolfClaudia - Nile CrocodileJamil - CheetahBarbara - Red bird-of-paradiseSaruin - Fatalis (A Fictional Species from Monster Hunter)Death - Skullcrawler (A Fictional Species from Monsterverse)Schirach - Shiny Zoroark (A Fictional Species from Pokemon)Spite, Strife and Scorn - CerberusSaiva - Red Death (A Fictional Species ftom HTTYD)
>>3977149you can just cheat with gameshark codes.and there's no "battle ranking" in SaGa 1 to 3 .and the remakes which should be based on SaGa 2's combat system.also the difficulty is just right for me. get gud. the games don't even need you to memorise elemental weaknesses like some games do. or have muscle memory to beat most shoot em ups
>>3977345>never had to write myself an Excel spreadsheet while playing an RPG before this one,it can be beaten without any monsters at all. maybe easier w/o monsters unless the RNG fuks you over.you can however cheese the monster transformations to get an endgame monster very early in the game, that might make the midgame easier.
>>3977726Yeah, I felt like my monster was having to play catch-up to the rest of the party for much of the beginning of the game. But finding a method to the madness of which meats lead to which transformations was a really neat experience, so I'm glad I went with the party I did.Luckily my monster finally got to shine after getting the Dragon God superboss's meat as early as possible (agility + paralysis build FTW)
>NOOOOOOOOOOO I WANT TO GRIND AND MINDLESSLY NORMAL ATTACK EVERYTHING TO DEATH NOOOOOODragon Quest is two threads down, buddy
>>3977149>These are basically anti-rpgs.It’s the other way around: Kawazu is the only JP designer who aims for that tabletop sandbox freeform TRPG experience. Have you tried to read some of the material he puts out (guides mostly) ? Shit looks like the Greyhawk gazeeter smashed together with the manual of the planes, with a sprinkle of glam and Jojo poses.
>>3977726You can beat it without monsters but it's more fun to have a monster
