>dungeon crawler>has party creation>4 slots, you can choose any combination you want!*>*but >you NEED a warrior to take and deal hits>you NEED a thief to open all the locked doors and chests and traps>you NEED a priest unless you want to waste all your gold on potions and resting at the inn and reviving people>this slot is actually free * tehe~>*but we seriously recommend making a WizardWhy do games do this!?
>>3953004You don't NEED, it would just be easier if you did.
>bring 4 tanks>have the cruisiest, low pressure game ever>game starts spamming instant death alpha strike ambushes>difficulty instantly goes from low to bullshitth-thanks game
>>3953004An extra priest is always better than a thief. Just walk into the traps and heal up afterwards.
>>3953030yeah but you'll still miss up on anything locked ever
>>3953030>Just walk into the traps and heal up afterwards.Somebody hasn't played Wizardry 2>late game, penultimate floor>trap activates>teleports the entire party into walls>everyone dies>despite playing a version that doesn't confirm text prompts on its own, precisely so I can hit reset if something bad happens before the autosave kicks in, in this case it didn't actually wait for the confirm and sent me right into the wall>their corpses/equipment can't even be retrievedTo be fair, I did ask the Thief to check the trap and he failed it so you might still have a point.
>>3953019>make an unbalanced party>get upset when your childish plan to just brute force everything to make it easy failsThe world is working as intended
>>3953066It's not that, it's that these games were designed by extremely impulsive people - they found out they could do a certain gimmick, by god they're going to use it till they get tired of it.
>>3953066>The world is working as intendedIt's more a symptom of bad game design. The early game experience and end game experience should equally account for mono-party builds. Throwing anti-class/counter-class mechanics is a lazy way to force difficulty if it wasn't established as a recurrent feature in the beginning.If a players gate-kept at the beginning of the game that's fair-play but to throw up the wall in the mid/end-game is bad design.
>>3953004name 5 games
>>3953095no, the failure of extreme specialization is most often found at the end of a long period. this is a good life lesson.
>>3953004I'll take four Samurai, please.
>>39530044 bards Out of the way, lutelets
>>3953095>The early game experience and end game experience should equally account for mono-party builds. Hard disagree.
>>3953137>this is a good life lesson.for people who somehow 1:1 their lifestyle with the way they play games surelybut what about the other 99,999999999% who play games to have fun
>>3953137IRL the life lesson is that players tell the GM to go fuck himself and they go form new group with a GM who can read the room.
>>3953137>Reach a boss>He has immunity to EVERYTHING + instakill>Oneshots your party in a cinematic before any semblance of concluding the story>Game over>You think it's a bug, reload, same thing happens again>You replay the game searching high and low for any clues, looking at strategy guides and finding other people have the same issue, people are losing their shit on the internet.>Finally the devs address this:>"Sometimes life isn't fair and you lose no matter how well you think you've prepared."You think this is good game design.
>>3953004This is why I specifically like Wizardry 7, since there are some neat little wrinkles in the game that help you avoid this formula.>ThiefDon't need one. Don't even need to train lockpicking (Skullduggery) since KnockKnock is a low level mage spell and it'll open any chest, and if it doesn't, just save scum. 99% of players do this anyway since it saves on critical skill points during level up and is quicker than the in-game lockpicking bullcrap.>healerValks and Lords become just as good as a priest can be around level 10-12. You could just have two valks and a lord and never bother with a priest, though they do get the higher level debuffs earlier.>wizardEnd game is entirely melee-based. Offense spells are worthless outside of asphyxiate and Nuclear blast, and even then most enemies (and all bosses) become immune to them. Only debuffs are valuable near the endgame. You can just have a mage who gets mid level, grabs the debuffs you want, and then switch them to a monk or whatever.>But I really want a devoted locks and traps guy!Psshhh...then use a Ninja or a Bard then. You have options.I think class changing being loose and free is one reason why it avoids those pitfalls. You can just keep changing class with no real penalty other than your stats going to minimum.
>>3953004>game forces you to multiclass each character as each class simultaneously No game I know actually does this but wouldn't it be awful if it did?
>>3953004>make completely overpowered party that abuses the mechanics of the game>thrash the entire dungeon>play as reincarnated demon lord>you now have to beat your old party
>2 warriors>2 priestsliterally no game can survive this
>>39530044 slots is pretty low for a dungeon crawlers, most have 6 slots. And it's true you need to fill some roles, but often there are multiple classes that can fill the same role so you get some leeway, and your character of a specific class can still have different attributes, a warrior could be a human or a dwarf, with more attack or more luck or some magic resistance, etc.
>>3953437Which game?
>>3953061This is why no one plays wizardry.
>>3953402if you think a mono-party is fun, you're a retard >>3953429>GMwrong board bro>>3953437lmao, get cucked
All white mage FF1, all valk Wiz, all cleric D&D. Works every time.
>>3953445>Don't need one. Don't even need to train lockpicking (Skullduggery) since KnockKnock is a low level mage spell and it'll open any chest, and if it doesn't, just save scum. 99% of players do this anyway since it saves on critical skill points during level up and is quicker than the in-game lockpicking bullcrap.so you don't even like playing the fucking game. cool
>>3953696FF1 is super easy, that's why this >>3953525 is a meme, because it actually is the fastest and easiest way through the game which is sad. Of course you can also do it with 4 white mages. You can solo the whole game with one white mage.
Tranime fags love to infest blobber threads. We must remain vigilant, anons.
>>3953677>have fun MY WAYNigga just concede, why are you making weak argument after weak argument for something that obviously doesn't affect you? What compels you?
If you don't do those four the game becomes instantly lame.I don't want to use a bard, or a monk, or a 'dragon sorcerer' or a 'ninja' (wtf go back to china, dweeb!)barbarians, druids and blackguards are the max. changing rogues and wizards for lame alternatives is just lame
>>3953903>design your game MY WAYcry more white boy
>>3953066Wouldn't a party of unga bunga fighters with lots of HP be the least susceptible to alpha strike ambushes?
>game has 12 different classes and 5 party slots>only 1 class can manually heal>only 1 class can tank
>>3955171Monk tank is kino of the highest order
>>3953004>>you NEED a warrior to take and deal hitsLiterally immediately OP self-destructs. 0 might character parties are easily the most overpowered in Might & Magic 6-7
>>3953061I just lost a party in Knight of Diamonds to a teleport. All level 13+ characters, most of whom had multiclassed over from a level 13 cleric or mage. One had a Lord's Garb, another was a good Ninja I had made using a Thief's Dagger. It wasn't a trap, though, I'm just retarded and entered the coordinates wrong. Taking a break with some Elminage Gothic.
>>3956616just use items
>>3953004People have been doing single class and solo challenges for as long as RPGs have been a thing, anon.
which etrian odyssey is the good onewhich wizardry 8 mods do i need before startingonly the animation speedup?
>>3964423>which wizardry 8 mods do i need before starting>only the animation speedup?Doesn't Wiz8 natively support speeding up the animations? I distinctly remember that from the one time I gave that game a try.
>>3953624That isn't why. The real reason is because that was one of his third dozen primary parties in rotation to clear the dungeon. The exact moment people realize they have to form a large expedition of disposable parties, everything about their enthusiasm melts.Next best wall to make people quit is the expansions.
There are two types of blobbers. One with wall is one cell. Second - wall is line between cells. Why devs do only type 1?
>>3964423Nexus is the best one. I'd play 1 first simply because the mapping improvements even in 2 make it annoying to play after. 4 is the most annoying to play.
There's a reason NES Final Fantasy is still beloved. The difficulty allows playing with any party. They even make the best weapon in the game useable by any class just so you can kill the last boss that fully heals every few rounds. The remasters completely fucked it up.Trying to play most of these pick your party games without an ideal party composition is going to be an exercise in frustration if not completely impossible.
>>39657791 is more realistic
>>3965855Anon, your walls are not euclidean and they certainly are not 2 meters thicc.
>>3965866"My" walls account for door frames and gimmicks like door damage/door blocking, "yours" don't. The "thickness" of walls can be corrected visually through sprites/models.
>>3953004blobber is our word, but you can say blobba
>>3965779Say you have an n by n grid for the mapFor style 1 you only need to define a tile and check neighbour for connection.For style 2 you'd have to track wall entities separately and you'd either:-have a second (n+1) by n array for horizontal walls (above each tile plus last) and then a third n by (n+1) array for vertical walls (left of each tile plus last)-store four walls per tile (redundantly, since each wall would be defined from both neighbors-store two walls per tile (leaving unassigned walls at two borders) and the code would have to account for different behaviorsIt's just a headache programmingwise
>>3966244>It's just a headache programmingwiseSounds like another ancient tecnology. Seems it wasn't big problem back then.
>>3953677>wrong board broRetard.
>>3965779>devs do only type 1Really? I'm not sure I have ever played a type 1. Then again, I haven't played a great deal of drpgs, really just wizardry, m&m, and elminage.>>3966244>wall entitiesIf you make each tile a node on a graph, with the tiles being connected by edges, then the behavior of walls is encoded in a looped edge (moving into the "wall" puts you back where you started, which in a game with discrete movement is the same as not moving). You just need to tell the renderer to draw a wall when there's a looped edge.granted, I only used this logic for some mapping software, not an actual vidya game, so maybe it breaks down in such a case
>>3968826>I haven't played a great deal of drpgsYou have hit the right game with type 2. Wizardry one of not many games with type 2. M&m is pretty unique, cause upper world is open world without walls, you can step on any cell, but dungeons is type 1. Don't know anything about japan drpg, but I think mostly of them are wizardy clones so probably there a lot of type 2. Most of west drpg like EotB, LoG, LoL and many others are type 1
>>3953004>>3953019>>3953095i have been playing etrian odyssey and it kinda felt that way in EO1.you can't beat the final boss without grinding an obscene amount. exploiting its bad ai, or adhering to the developer mandated backline that includes both survivalist and medici don't like archers so i didn't make a survivalist and i got rug pulled at the very last boss... great game design>>3955782yes and in a lot of systems they would be the least susceptible to instant-death mechanics since they are usually based on hp/constitution>>3953715thief is actually the worst class in ff1, not white mage and it isn't even close, if you don't get that guy into a ninja he is literally worthless.also 4 fighters is quite slow because you are forced to buy potions that only heal 30 hp 1 at a time with like 3 or 4 inputs and text delays for each
>>3953445I dunno how you beat the boss at the top of the dane's tower without a character knowing high level priest spells.
>>3966244>Say you have an n by n grid for the mapthat's racist
>>3966244What are you going on about?Each side of a grid square can be represented by a bit, with doors as bits 5-8 and whatever other stuff you want to do via the bits in a second byte. No need to have multiple arrays like that.
