Are healers an outdated concept?No matter how diverse your class system is, you always need a character that specializes in restoring HP. It cuts down on variety because no matter how you build your party, 95% of party builds need this archetype of character.On top of that, there is very little variation between different types of healers. Some games attempt different types, like damage restoration vs damage mitigation, but they all basically have the same gameplan.
>>3965543Healer is just another component of game system that is pretty natural, intuitive and logical in a party-based rpg with class system. HP is pretty much the most important resource for the player and against bigger enemies and in dungeons you need some sort of sustain.You may twist the concept around and spread healing options among multiple classes, but ultimately the result will be the same - a class with best healing toolkit will be dedicated to keeping your other guys alive - your healer being called "arcanemancer" and having few mildly useful offensive spells will not change the fact that his main use is making other party members healthy and alive.You can't really develop challenging/interesting system without any healing option because again, health is the main resource and one that game specifically is targeting. You may allude yourself by making enemies draining mana or other resources, but their point is still just softening you to become vulnerable and prone to death.Not having healing spells/skills and focusing on items is just reducing options for the sake of it and again, in party-based system your best bet will be turning the most resilient dude into glorified potions dispenser.The DPS-Tank-Healer triangle may be bit overdone and seemingly boring, but it's because ultimately it boils down to most basic functions that naturally fit to every system. Dude dealing damage, dude taking damage and dude keeping team alive. You may allude yourself with memes about support class but that too exist to make one of these three functions more efficient.
>>3965555I guess tl;dr would be that healers are needed because game the job of game system is to drop player's health points to 0. Any other logical answer will just end with creation of crypto-healers doing exactly the same thing under different name and different fluff.
>>3965555>The DPS-Tank-Healer triangle may be bit overdone and seemingly boring,The only real problem is the overspecialization. I don't have MMO experience, but in Xenoblade 3 it was basically enforced by the game and it was too specialized imo.
>>3965543Is HP an outdated concept? You know that doctors exist in real life. Like. Medicine and managing medical crises has been one of the few specific areas of human endeavor that has literally ALWAYS dominated our existence. And not just like, it's always been there. I mean that it has been a thing that our entire lives and civilizations are directly and intentionally centered upon, designed explicitly to deal with. It's THE SPECIFIC THING that mortal sapient entities are constantly, constantly CONSTANTLY thinking about.Healers are not outdated. The bland abstraction of HP is what's outdated. It's so simplified and reductionist, that it robs the narrative of the drama of injury and recovery that would otherwise be a major component of adventuring. If there is no risk, there is no payoff.Healers are why the story exists in the first place.
>>3965543Who needs healer when you got lifesteal.
Games that avoid the “trinity” liked NuXCOM devolve into everyone playing a hyper specialized dps and massively alpha striking the enemy in round one. Rather than adding complexity to the game, you end up simplifying it, and making it far more boring.
Healers aren't "outdated", they are newshit. D&D never had healers and the oldest vidya RPGs didn't either.
>>3965543D&D literally solved this problem twice in the same edition and that's considering it wasn't actually a problem in older editions because healing is like 5% of what a Cleric has available to them but idiots were forcing it to be a healbot.
>>3965543My main healer in Etrian Odyssey is literally a ninja who heals by dying. Repeatedly. Sometimes multiple times per turn.
>>3965543My main healer in Etrian Odyssey 3 is literally a ninja who heals by dying. Repeatedly. Sometimes multiple times per turn.
>>3965600Clerics have been in D&D since the very beginning. Stop spreading misinformation.
>>3965636It's a common mistake to make. Most classes can be fit into the archetypes of Fighter, Mage, or Thief which is also a well-known multiclass choice in 2e, so they assume those were the OG classes, but it was actually Fighter, Mage, Cleric; Thief didn't come until later.Believe it or not but the last class to be introduced, after paladin, monk, and assassin, was druid despite them being extremely important to European mythology.
>>3965555>You can't really develop challenging/interesting system without any healing optionWrong, the best systems are those that have little or no healing altogether.
>>3965636Clerics having healing spells isn't the same thing as Clerics being dedicated healers.
>>3965555Go play a game that doesn't have a healer sometime.
>>3965636Clerics are not healers as in "dedicated healers". They were more like the happy middle ground between Warriors and Mages.
>>3965543Later Etrian Odyssey games have several classes that can restore HP in addition to their regular roles, but they usually sacrifice ease of use. Like the Arcanist:>can put down a "circle" on the enemies which inflicts status effects every turn, and also passively heals the party a small amount every turn (30-40ish HP to a 250 HP party)>has various active skills that dismiss the circle to do effects, such as damaging the opponent (it's the main way they attack) or bestowing a powerful heal on your party>but after dismissing the circle, you lose your regen and obviously can't dismiss it back-to-back so if your big heal didn't save you, next turn is going to be uncomfortableClass design like that means you can often get by without a dedicated healer, but there's still room for the Medic class for parties that need constant healing due to recoil attacks or just yoloing the game without a defensive front line.
>>3965636A cleric doesn't specialize in restoring HP, it's probably the least effective thing they can do. Please don't cry misinfo when you are ignorant.
>healer has barrier>tank has reflect>dps has lifesteal
>>3965543No, they're not an outdated concept. They might not be a party member, they can be a pokecenter or an HP pot, but the concept itself is not outdated.In order for anything to be engaging it has to continually produce novelty for the audience. Otherwise they get bored and the trance breaks. Novelty comes in all shapes, sizes, colors, flavors... but part of the novelty creation toolkit is enemies dealing damage to the player and in order for the player to feel engaged and feel novelty? Enemies can't be dealing the exact same damage each time they hit and certainly the damage dealt can't be the same across all enemies. The human brain would far too easily pick up the pattern and grow bored. So that means the player is going to encounter some wimps that probably don't require healing. Other times the player is going to get hit by a bus, and it has to feel like grievous damage has been dealt to them.You might not need a PC healer in position to heal, but you have to have some mechanism to heal the character otherwise the player doesn't have fun because you just broke their toy, possibly their favorite toy.Even the most brutal, permadeath, rogue-like game takes this "you just broke my toy" concept into consideration. Somewhere in the dungeon there is a way to heal yourself and give yourself another chance at victory. Might not be guaranteed, might not be easy to come by, but there's a chance and that chance of saving the toy builds tension which is what makes a game thrilling.At least IMO.
>>3965565>>3965861How many years did you wait to write this out anons?
>>3965543Through almost all games.
>>3965555There should be some injury system. Insta healing ruins games. Hp as a resource should be managed over a longer time period than a 2 minute fight.
>>3965565>Is HP an outdated conceptIt screams 70s form every... Well letter.
>>3965565>The bland abstraction of HP is what's outdated. It's so simplified and reductionist, that it robs the narrative of the drama of injury and recovery that would otherwise be a major component of adventuring."It is quite unreasonable to assume that as a character gains levels of ability in his class that a corresponding gain in actual ability to sustain physical damage takes place. Why then the increase in hit points? Because these reflect both the actual physical ability of the character to withstand damage, and a commensurate increase in such areas as skill in combat and similar life-or-death situations, the "sixth sense" which warns the individual of some otherwise unforeseen events, sheer luck, and the fantastic provisions of magical protections and/or divine protection.""Each hit scored upon the character does only a small amount of actual physical harm - the sword thrust that would have run a 1st level fighter through the heart merely grazes the character due to the fighter's exceptional skill, luck, and sixth sense ability which caused movement to avoid the attack at just the right moment. Having sustained 40 or 50 hit points of damage, our lordly fighter will be covered with a number of nicks, scratches, cuts, and bruises. It will require a long period of rest and recuperation to regain the physical and metaphysical peak of 95 hit points.""Commonly it is necessary to resort to the passage of time, however, to restore many characters to full hit point strength. For game purposes it is absolutely necessary that the character rest in order to recuperate, i.e. any combat, spell using, or similar activity does not constitute rest, so no hit points can be regained."-some ancient tome
>>3966003>passage of timeThe significance of the passage of the time *cackling intensifies*
>>3966003>It is quite unreasonable to assume that as a character gains levels of ability in his class that a corresponding gain in actual ability to sustain physical damage takes place. Why then the increase in hit points? Because these reflect both the actual physical ability of the character to withstand damage, and a commensurate increase in such areas as skill in combat and similar life-or-death situations, the "sixth sense" which warns the individual of some otherwise unforeseen events, sheer luck, and the fantastic provisions of magical protections and/or divine protectionShouldn't attributes like DEX, SPD or STR increase HP then? I think Traveller use STR and DEX as HP.
>>3965543>No matter how diverse your class system is, you always need a character that specializes in restoring HP.This is taken as axiomatic and it never really made sense to me. On one hand, out of combat restitution is perfectly sensible and logical, especially if you have any intention of traversing a long labyrinthian dungeon for hours or even days at a time. A doctor character devoted to that function is fine. What's stupid is the JRPG/MMORPG bullshit where healing is not only an option, its arguably the most centralizing aspect of combat by FAR, where your healer's ability to outpace the monster's DPS is downright essential for the sake of you and your party's survival. It removes all the grit from combat entirely, since your HP bar may as well be the healer's mana bar at that point
>>3965565>autistic reddit-spacing faggot mouthing off some bullshit that misses the pointFuck off.
>>3965555You genuinely can't even envision a single form of damage mitigation that doesn't involve pushing a bar back into the green zone, can you?
>>3965543healing is how you not die. a lot of rpg dungeons are a game of attrition and how well you can manage your resources before resting at a healing spring or what have you. having dudes that can expend mp or some other resources to heal back damage taken during fights is always gonna be good.
>>3966011irl you mostly decrease hp from strain by getting more str and dex
>>3965543>No matter how diverse your class system is, you always need a character that specializes in restoring HP.Says who?
>>3966018Kill yourself. A desperate witch hunt for redditors is not a valid response to anything.
>>3966106Channers who use "reddit" as a go-to dismissive insult are literal subhumans.Especially on constructive posts that they don't agree with,reddit is more useful than your autistic screeching adding nothing to the discussion.
>>3966019Increasing your defensive capabilities is ultimately the same thing but wrapped differently. You heal yourself or stack gazillion buffs - either way the point is to stay alive long enough till your enemy will drop dead or you leave the dungeon.
>>3965543Time to ditch healing and go for damage mitigation
>>3966018Newfags think paragraphs are “Reddit spacing”
>>3965555>alludeEverything else you said made sense but the fact you misused that word twice convinced me you're still a retard.
>>3966173>Increasing your defensive capabilities is ultimately the same thing but wrapped differently. That doesn't make any fucking sense.Making clever use of positioning is not healing.Utilizing your action economy to devote your characters to defensive maneuvers so as to avoid incoming damage is not healing.Alpha striking the enemy or stunning them with debilitating effects before they can muster an attack on you is not healing.Any rhythmic combat structure where you punish the enemy for their mistakes rather than chugging a flask or casting a healing spell to patch up the damage you got from a big monster throwing a rock at you is not healing.Healing is healing if it aids in RESTORING the "Keep me alive" bar.What OP has problems is not the existence of healer archetypes, but their pivotal focus in the majority of non-CRPGs RPGs out there. It's certainly not a problem in D&D games considering there is almost no scenario where you're better off healing in combat instead.>You heal yourself or stack gazillion buffs - either way the point is to stay alive long enough till your enemy will drop dead or you leave the dungeon.It's not the same at all taking into account there's no way to make in-combat healing an interesting mechanic without relying on gimmicky interactions.
>>3965543It's funny that you chose an image with the FF1 white mage sprite. FF1 is a game where you absolutely don't need a white mage.
>>3965650>>3965701>>3965716What the fuck are you idiots talking about. The Cleric was THE healer in D&D.
>>3966179Kawazu is years ahead of the competition as usual
>>3966406The Cleric originated as someone wanting to play Van Helsing: Vampire Hunter
>>3966406Clerics were bless bots and never healed in combat if they could reasonably help it.
>>3966406You should try playing Pool of Radiance and using your cleric's turn to heal in combat. See how useful it is.
>>3965543>Are healers an outdated concept?Always were. Turn spent healing is turn not used to do damage or CC. So it always was bad idea from action economy standpoint. Unless game was designed with healer being mandatory, using heals is bad idea. Especially if it also costs limited resources like spell slots while HP is (in most games) restoreable by items you buy with cash you have nothing to spend on.
>>3966470Okay, so is it good game design if you're able to do your damage and crowd control optimally at all times and the game never throws any opposition your way or forces you to interrupt your flowchart to interact with it in any way? Because the point of having heals and sustain is that sometimes the enemy is going to punch you really hard, and you MIGHT have to drop your damage for a bit to deal with it. And how quickly you're able to get back on the bike after being knocked off is what determines your skill at the game mechanics, not whether or not you memorized a rotation.
why do mmo players come here? they don't know shit about rpgs.
>>3965543No.See the IFAK existing in real life but still having dedicated medics, corpsmen, and field hospitals.
>>3966485>Okay, so is it good game design if you're able to do your damage and crowd control optimally at all times and the game never throws any opposition your way or forces you to interrupt your flowchart to interact with it in any way?Yes.
>>3966501Medics don't run into the frontlines wrapping up a soldier with bandages while he's still in the middle of fighting.
>>3965565Fuck off, you don't matter.
>>3966505You don't want a game, you want a toy.
>>3966513Your favorite genre of video game is literally simon says where you activate the obligatory heal aoe when the boss throws out his unavoidable damage nuke.
>>3966517Why are you here complaining about wanting to change a genre you clearly don't like?
>you don’t like RPGs>no, YOU don’t like RPGs!#just/VRPG/things
>>3966522Jarpigs and MMOs means nothing to me.
>>3966253You're dumb and you write too much.On greater scale there's no practical difference between healing and other defensive tools. Ultimately they all exist to keep you alive till you reach your next goal. Replenishing your hp or making it not get reduced in the first place - the only thing that matters is that it will never reach 0.When you realize that (I doubt in you being able to do so) you'll stop being upset about healers because in practice medic and guy with a shield have the same goal - to keep your virtual party alive.One can probably make a point that effective, resource-aware use of DPS options also can be considered form of defensive play because a dead nigger can't hit you, but I'm not sure if your pea-sized brain is ready to accept that.
>>3966406The Cleric was able to heal in emergencies or out of combat. If the Cleric's healing is regularly needed in combat you are going to fucking die the moment something stops the Cleric from taking an action for a turn.
>>3966419Kinda hilarious since Van Hellsing was never a vampire hunter in the book.
>>3965543Healers are just one component of keeping the party alive. If you dont like healing, look into damage mitigation or control via status effects.
>>3966830Healing outside of combat is still healing. It's about making it through a whole dungeon intact, not just a one off encounter. Even with a party of all powerful fighters, getting hit is inevitable in the long run and if you don't have a way to heal it will wear the party down eventually. Unless you had a DM that completely ignored encumbrance and throws treasure around like candy you're not going to be carting around a ton of potions which is why clerics were a core class.
>>3965543having a dedicated healer class is boring. healing is better if it's decentralized and unique>warrior guy can self-heal>berserker guy can spend HP to heal an ally>rogue guy passively heals if he doesn't attack>magic guy can cast a spell that turns the next instance of damage into healingetc.
>>3966179>Ditch the heeling...That's what I always did. White mages sucked. >... and go with damage mitigation.And that the best defense was a good offense.
>>3966406That's because you play like a scrub. Going all in offense and healing off of combat with wands/potions is optimal until you get to where you can cast Heal/Mass Heal which are actually spells worth the spell slots.
Healers are fine, they introduce a choice you have to make between using one of your party slots on them for better survivability vs using it for another damage dealer or someone with a different type of utility. If you don't want to use the slot on a healer, then you have to deal with the consequences and find an effective strategy to win fights without them. I can't think of many games where a dedicated healer is forced on you so I don't really see them as a problem.
>>3967739>Hmmm. I get to make a party? Four fighters should be good.
>>3967832Suboptimal, have to grind to equip them and there isn't enough endgame weaponry for all 4. Rookie mistake, two fighters is superior.
>>3967837>SuboptimalLol @ you
>>3967841Yes.Have an argument or are you simply repeating other people's ideas?
>>3967832>>3967837Yo be fair, 5 fighters is famously the fastest and easiest party to beat FF1 with. That's more a statement of it not being a very well balanced game though.
>>3967927My fighter couldn't've beat the last boss without my ninja sacrificing himself to lend the fighter his strength.
>>3967842>Have an argumentThe fun in playing roleplaying games is in roleplaying a thematically-appropriate party. If someone wants to play a gimmick party of all fighters and they think that's fun, and your immediate reaction to that is stating that it's "sub-optimal", then you may, in fact, lack a soul. It's not that your argument is wrong, it's that you're completely missing the point and making an utterly irrelevant and tangential argument.
>>3967932Ironic since Thief/Ninja is the one class it's impossible to solo the game with.
>>3965543This problem has already been solved but the solution doesn't map to most RPG games. Take Rimworld for example. "Healing" is still very much a thing and is very necessary, but "damage" itself is also not just a simple "your number got too low and now you die". You take injuries, lose capabilities as a result of those injuries, and most deaths will be a result of either instantly dying to a bullet ripping through your cranium or a slow, painful, agonizing death bleeding out as you try to drag yourself to safety. That works because you don't "play" as your pawns in Rimworld (except with certain mods). When you're actually playing as a character, it fucking sucks to get injured and slowly die while feeling like there's nothing you can do. That's why we have arbitrary HP bars where you can go from "perfectly capable" to "fucking dead" with nothing in between. That's why so many games let you make number go up, because when the only way to incapacitate someone is to make their number go to 0 you necessarily have to have enemies that can hit hard as fuck to be any threat at all. That's why most jarpig bosses will have "your entire party now has 1 hp and you can't avoid it" attacks or something similar.
>>3967445Okay, but when you're fighting a tough enemy, you'd rather have your warrior and berserker doing as much damage, you're not gonna want your rogue to stand around doing nothing, and you won't want your wizard to spend a whole turn just for some self-sustain. So you're gonna bench one of them and replace him with a dedicated healer so the rest of your party can do what they're good at without constantly interrupting themselves. Even if "dedicated healer" just means "the rogue is throwing potions every turn because he has the least DPT anyway."
I don't like when healers can easily heal the party or individuals to full. Healing itself is fine but in limited and not full-time job ways.
>>3967990Right? Didn't know one can solo with red mage or white mage.
>>3968024Yep, even a solo white mage can do it. Theif just sucks because FF1 is a glitchy game and it was intended to have a super high evade and crit rate but it doesn't work so in the end it's just a weaker Red Mage that doesn't get any spells till it classes up and then those aren't useful.
>>3968033A single white mage?>bugsFf1 og or the psx version?
>>3968036Nes original.
>>3967927Stop pretending to be retarded.>>3967976I was responding to>Four fighters should be good.You seem like one of those guys who thinks they are clever but are kind of a dummy. Protip: tangential discussion is the purview of the intelligent.
>>3965593ThisMecha games are the only broad exception to this.Even then those games tend to focus much more on smaller scale combats in sequence.Healers are a necessity if you want a battle that lasts a long time
>>3967837>SuboptimalFor beating the game at a low level with minimal grinding, 4 fighters is optimal. They can beat the game in level 20, before black belts even get their 6 hits.>Grinding for their gear.Rookie mistake. Just buy it as it comes , and don't let lack of the best equipment prohibit you from doing the next task. Let me guess, you are the n00b that actually bought steel armor? And also did you ever think how expensive any mage in the game is - more expensive than a fighter even wasting money on that steel armor.>Two fighters is superiorWhat other two lesser classes did you fill your party with?>Rookie mistakeYou use those words. I don't think you know what they mean.>>3967976>4 fighter = gimmick party.I agree with what you are saying, but I don't think 4 fighters is a gimmick party here. It arguably the most optimized party. 4 White mages is a gimmick party, and an interesting one in that it turns out to be superior to 4 black mages (not enough hp), 4 red mages (not enough attack), and 4 thieves (broken class).
>>3968125>I'm "intelligent" for decrying the gigachad meme pure fighter composition being "sub-optimal"Okay buddy. I'm sure you're a very smart and handsome big boy.
>>3967991>That's why we have arbitrary HP bars where you can go from "perfectly capable" to "fucking dead" with nothing in between.There's also various status effects and debuffs
>>3968161Monk and the other one were added later, I reckon.
>>3965565Oh look, obnoxious theater kid who's afraid of game mechanics in games.
>>3966179>muslim chick>does buddhist magicWhat?
>>3968215That guy is the exact opposite of an obnoxious theater kid, an obnoxious theater kid would bitch about real injury systems.
>>3967837One of the reasons 4 fighters is the fastest is that they're strong enough that you never need to stop and grind for money to buy equipment. Just give the front one whatever new gear you find or can buy with what you have and shift his old gear to the next in line etc. You're plenty powerful like that to just steamroll through as you go. You don't need them all to have the end game weapons, it's beatable with just one of them anyways.
>>3968255>never need to stop and grind for money to buy equipment.I didn't have to do that with fighter, thief, w mage and black mage on NES. Is this some version specific thing or?
>>3968220rule n1: mainstream religions dont exist in jrpgs, bakahow many rpgs have u played with references to christian, jewish, muslim references?
>>3968272Emerald saga?
>>3965555You don't need HP if you don't get hithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSunDHFy988
>>3968429One of the main reasons I quit souls likes. Armor is basically for noobs. You only need high attack, voila. This however isn't rpg.
>>3968272>christianPaladins>jewishSephiroth
>>3968255Suboptimal.
>>3968010in this (completely hypothetical) system, no single character would be good enough at healing to be a dedicated healeryou're also assuming that you would need to heal so often as to require a dedicated healer
>>3967445That's basically how it works in Gloomhaven and I like it. Healing being more situational creates more tactical depth around it.
>>3965543This is almost exclusively a jarpigger concept. And as others have mentioned, especially in earlier D&D, clerics were not healers even if they might've had a healing ability; they were magical warriors with some combat restrictions and different spells from mages for utility. If the party took a lot of damage we either used an obscenely rare health potion in emergencies, a splash of healing from the cleric if we were close to winning, or we just ran away. The normal way we healed was always outside of combat by resting sometimes up to a week of in-game time and using spells or skills to speed it up the process for the characters in-game.I know I'll get shit on for this but Daggerfall is probably closer to the old tabletop experience for healing. Yeah you have some spells if you are an ACTUAL good mage and in Daggerfalls case you have tons of spell points to spare. Or you rest for some time, you have a medical skill that can speed it up and you can pick stuff like natural regeneration when you create your character than can further speed it up.
>>3965656The game where everyone can just spam potions at any point with zero turn cost or repercussions?
in a world of perma death healers reign supreme, especially if they can just fuck all the rules and ressurect you...that and summoners are legitimately their own class appeal. i dont give a fuck about swords and spells, just could be a heal slut for my self and troll the fuck out of everyone until they beg for it.
>>3968272Many
>>3965988Rogue Trader has that. Take too much damage in a turn? You get stacks of Injury. Let the Injuries stack up/leave them to fester without healing? Those stacks turn into Traumas - prolonged debuffs that's only cured when you return back to your home base. If you get dropped to 0 you instantly get a Trauma.So to not constantly run back to your base you have to avoid stacking up injuries, cure them as soon as you can at cost to your action economy and medkits, or just make do with maluses to your stats/HP/movement.
>>3968183In most systems that boils down to "wow I miss more attacks and waste my turn" or "wow I'm stunned and waste my turn". Making status effects and debuffs interesting for the players to get fit with takes a surprising amount of mechanical finesse and has to be baked in pretty deeply into the mechanics.
>>3967739If you really thought the best defense was a good offense you would replace those tanks with 4 black belts.
>>3970994Optimal.
>>3966003I don't understand how killing things makes me more skilled in a broad range of well skills; especially non combat related ones.
>>3969697>Making status effects and debuffs interesting for the players to get fit with takes a surprising amount of mechanical finesse and has to be baked in pretty deeply into the mechanics.How so?
>>3965543A class who's sole focus is healing? Yeah, its pretty lame.A class who's theme includes healing, but also has other things going for it is great.
>>3971493it doesn't really make sense does it? but whatever imagine playing and your thief and wizard need to grind exp by running scams or whatever and studying for months before you can go do the next questboring, sometimes the gameplay matters
>>3971493You get proficient at things and branch out into other things? It's not like are ever allowed to skip straight to expertise unless you've been hoarding levelups for ages for some reason. Also I would assume that less exciting shit like reading manuals for dummies is left off-screen or you'll end up with "immersive" garbage like TES where you shooting blanks into a wall for 5 hours straight to get the hang of how magic works.
>>3972449>"immersive" garbage like TES where you shooting blanks into a wall for 5 hours straightStop self-inserting and start roleplaying.
>>3965543>No matter how diverse your class system is, you always need a character that specializes in restoring HP.No? If anything classes dedicated to healing are a rarity in rpg systems, it's just a mmo/jarpig thing.
>>3971603assume this is a jarpig player.
>>3971493Originally you accrued XP from treasure and combat and then had to seek training to actually level up. Training was removed as a mechanic from many RPGs because modern players and devs are babies.
>>3972456Stop throwing around meaningless buzzwords and start speaking human language.
>>3972471What do you suggest?
>>3973145Are you dumb?
>>3972471>modern players and devs are babies.See>>3973145
>>3965543nah, look at league of legends. healers/support are great
>>3973158>>3973151
>>3973239Can't even green text properly, what a joke
>>3965543>you always need a character that specializes in restoring HP.only in fantasy slopFallout, Fallout 2, FMV, Colony Ship, even low fantasy RPGs like Age of Decadence? No healsluts!
>>3973359>Fallout, Fallout 2Just open your inventory and use an infinite amount of stimpacks per turn, bro
>>3973314>Yes, I am dumb.
>>3966179I wish this game was better because the battle system is schweet. So much so that I'm thinking of completely ripping it off and making a game.
>>3973359No shit Fallouts don't have a dedicated healer when they don't even have a party.
>>3966892Back then most action heroes were detectives and scientists without super powers.
>>3965543What you really need is just 3 roles:1. Support2. DPS3. TankHealing is likely the easiest form of support role, but I guess you could remove the healing as primary function and focus on buffs and debuffs. The issues arise when you have a healer and feel the need to add a second support for other types of buff. This overspecialization leads to classes that feel a one-trick poney, because they are.
>>3974460Tank is a fake role for games that don't have real positioning.
>>3974460MMO trinity is dogshit.
>>3973908Oh no, you don't understand. He wasn't an action guy at all!
>>3965543What the fuck is this retarded post? It's entirely trivial to design a game that doesn't rely on healers. In fact, most games ever made don't have healers.It's only shitty grinding games where everything is a battle of attrition with a dozen random encounters between every safe haven where a healer is required, and even then you could still add alternative aways to regain health like lifesteal, regeneration, fucking health potions, etc.
>>3974785>What the fuck is this retarded post?It's a bait post attempting to get replies and generate discussion. Were you born yesterday.
