>>2089217
once you realize the extreme maintenance requirements for dirt roads and you exchange them for other road types it gets better

>>2090170
what are the best road types?

more like songs of SEX LOLLOLLOLOLOLO

>>2089217
Yes and when people bitched at him for making the other half economy related to research he made labs consume clay so now instead of 20 researchers you have 10 researchers and 10 clay miners. Fucking progress.

>>2090399
>promising game brought down by the developer's tism
Many such cases.

do people whining about clay and leather not realize the game has a fully functional trade system and you can just import everything with ease?

>>2090473
The idea of comparative advantage is lost on those retards.

>>2090186
basic stone is the most cost effective imo. Stone is easy to find, get or buy

>>2090399
>implying researchers would not record findings on clay tablets
The game is Ea Nasir pilled.

>>2090399
how else will labs record shit?

>>2090660
>>2090664
Using clay to record is fine, but they use an absurd amount when you are just at maintenance. It shouldn't take a dozen people constantly copying clay tablets to remember how to upgrade your toilets to marble and I don't want to have to do the calculation if upgrading the toilets to marble will attract more migrants that it takes in research and higher maintenance requirements now that they consume polished stone.
Maintenance is absurd in general. Stone buildings somehow take more in replacement material in like 3 years than what they took to build in the first place.

>>2090473
That still has bunch of your economy dedicated to it, leather is not that cheap and dev keeps nerfing trade in general. Now even getting a trade agreement so you can auto-import stuff is expensive and there's no guarantee that whoever you happen to border will have it at good prices.

>the lowest trade fariffs can possibly go now is 20%
should haven't been a panican

>>2090559
If you focus on a few goods you have high production rates the sale price will go down to a small fraction of the original price by the time you have a few hundred employees (oopsie daisy you sold too much). Add to that the fact you get deduced about half of the price when selling and similarly pay more when buying due to tolls, it becomes clear the current patch is really geared towards autarky

>>2090685
>really geared towards autarky
BASED, JUCHE IS THE WAY

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>>2090685
that depends on your trade partners. in my 6k town i made my money with furniture and paper, but at some point i got so lazy with optimizing that i'm now just overproducing 1200 wood daily and selling it as well. as you can see, i'm nowhere near reaching my neighbors' trade capacity.
my advice is just keep playing. when i started out with this version i got frustrated as well but the more you play the more you realize how much you can optimize

>>2090473
Getting a trade agreement is expensive, and trade means you need to give up shit that you have. The issue is the amount of clay it takes to maintain and research techs is way too high, to the extent where researching some techs is just a net negative.

Money disappearing due to inflation is so retarded.

>>2090880
Dev just hates you being able to stockpile anything, even rocks will rot in storage somehow. He wants 100% of your economy go to maintenance in perfect equilibrium

>>2090895
>even rocks will rot in storage somehow.
I have 200 hours and I just learned this. That's insane.

>>2090903
When you hover over the sidebar it tells you what is the spoilage rate. Even stuff you wouldn't really think as perishable has like 5% spoil rate yearly. Raw rock is just 1%, but cut stone is 5% and so are metal goods. The second maybe you could say rusts but that is still a pretty high rate for steel armour to become unusable in storage or it's supposed to be stuff that just gets damaged and some retard chipped a rock and it's no longer usable. To be fair it gets halved in when stored properly and there's tech to improve it but still.

>>2090701
Do the following
>go to the diplomacy tab with a partner
>demand 1 unit of a good
>offer 1 unit of the same good
At this point you will notice that the price you sell the good is not at all the price showed on the sidebar
As in, the nominal buy/sell price of wheat (I don't even sell it, so no dumping) is 12/9 coins. However, the actual rate it goes is 14/3.
Consider that you also pay tariffs on buying the resource you want, a comparative advantage of more than 10x I would be needed around 4.5x comparative advantage to make it worth it.
The way tech works the player rarely get this much comparative advantage in production efficiency, so it is almost always better to produce locally, even at bad production rates

>>2090685
just increase your relationship

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>>2090922
i agree with tech being an issue. i just don't see what having to calculate whether or not buying is worth it adds to the game, and it also seems silly that tool use is now locked behind tech. i recommend this mod that gives you better tooltips and some info tabs: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3352452572

not sure how to reply to the rest. i don't do any math while playing, and i still made enough money to start buying up my neighbors, at which point it's over.
for reference, here's what my auroch pasture bonuses look like (with tilapi slaves; all my citizens are humans). i originally used them just for leather but they also make around 45-60k denari a day in meat and livestock now

>>2090913
Inorganic material such as stone and wood, if stored properly, should basically never deteriorate. Lumber stored in a cool dry area will last over 10 years. Stone will be usable for far longer than that.

Iron is a very stable element and will basically never deteriorate unless you are storing it underwater. Same thing with clay. This game is so retarded it's unreal.

>>2091185
If there was a resource that didn't deteriorate the player would just stockpile it to avoid losing money to inflation, hence getting infinite money from fast forwarding the game

>>2090922
>Consider that you also pay tariffs on buying the resource you want, a comparative advantage of more than 10x I would be needed around 4.5x comparative advantage to make it worth it.
I meant 4.5x in the example I'm retarded

>>2091299
You can just do that with gems anyway, they decay so slowly that they may as well not decay.

>>2091299
Inflation is a stupid mechanic anyway because your money just disappears at a flat rate that you can't influence at all, which is not how inflation works at all.

>>2089217
I never had that issue, stop using dirty roads and mud buildings. Only do mud huts if you're playing the lizzies, get some slaves for the extra work, they like slaves.

>>2091805
> at a flat rate that you can't influence at all
Isn't there a tech to reduce it somewhat? Doesn't change your point which is correct, of course.

>>2093315
Unless he added a new tech, the tech only reduces spoilage.

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>>2093315
yes, also an unlockable title

What size should I make the balticrawler pastures? Seems like no matter how big they get it's capped at 4 creatures. Is there any advantage to making them super big?

>got hit by four epidemics in a row
This is fine

>>2094023
i've never used them but i just tried it and the maximum i could get was 11 with a 45x45 building. the tooltip says they thrive under mountains so that's probably it

>>2091805
I am an economist and years ago I tried to explain to the dev how inflation works, he ignored me in a thread in which he was very active otherwise. Honestly no inflation would be much better than what we have now.
I dont think he is dumb but he probably is retarded in some other way, probably a sperg

>>2091185
>wood
>not organic
Heh.

>start game in dev mode
>spawn myself a bunch of shit that is tedious to get like gems, metal, and a shitload of furniture/wood/fabrics
>turn off dev mode
>enjoy the improved game start

>>2090473
Trade is cheating easy mode
Self sustenance with a closed economy is real gamer

>>2090250
God fucking dammit

>songs of sex

I miss the privacy and building shape preference

>>2109594
Building shape still exists, it's just not listed as an individual room thing but it's a global overlay, unless that also got removed in the meantime and I missed it.
Privacy is gone though, yeah, there's no reason other than RP to pick one residential size over the other.

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>>2109070
>songs of sex
what are you over 30 living alone with no friends?

>>2110616
H-how did you know?!

How is this compared to Ymir?

>>2111319
Isn't Ymir, exlcusively multiplayer?
This is exclusively singleplayer.

>>2111799
From my selective memory of Ymir it has single-player but it might as well not have one because it doesn't make any sense with how the entire thing is set-up. Ymir dev is a French retard who only made it because he got clowned on in Lands of Lords, so he tried to remake a similar community driven world but palpable to Steam audiences.
Anyhow they're not really that similar. SoS is more akin to Dwarf Fortress with focus on simulating every actor and tile, while Ymir is an Impressions game but 4x MMO.

You can barely make a profit with trading, it's a paradox but you get more money when you can just export 20 units of furniture. Comparative advantages my ass, you must rush conquering 4 or 5 regions

>>2111810
>SoS is more akin to Dwarf Fortress
It's baby's first Dwarf Fortress, with actually good storage systems

>>2112237
just give gifts retard

>>2089217
i just installed a bunch of mods that nerf all the maintenance shit and sometimes use dev mod to spawn myself some resources to mine
i absolutely fucking hate how research is done in this game, i just wanna make aesthetically pleasing cities and not spent half of my time making sure research doesn't decay

Game is ass. Maintenance needing so many resources, production buildings being so inefficient and the tech system being so abysmally shit, needing so many people for such little tech points that give so little bonuses makes the core gameplay loop a chore that can be solved ony by elite autism. I think the dev said in his discord that he wants players to use spread sheets, lmao

>>2117006
gifts to whom for what?
>>2117018
you can adjust the settings, but if you lower the difficulty you disable achievements and titles
>>2118502
theres no hope then

Wow, everyone hates this game now. What happened?

>>2122977
the dev is a retard that hates fun

>>2122977
It's just shitters seething about getting filtered

>>2122977
Dev is super autistic and wants to make it impossible to do anything. You can't stockpile resources because stone rots away in storage. You can't hoard silver because it disappears due to "inflation." Research is so expensive that some techs are literally a net negative for your economy. Labs need a truckload of clay to operate every day now because fuck you.

>>2122977
Keep doing major overhauls of the game difficulty solely to make it more difficult. Every time players find a way to make it a normal difficulty the dev nerfs that specific thing

>>2091805
Money shouldn't be its own special magic stat. Replace the retarded sithilon ore with gold, that's basically what it is supposed to be. Make all trades use gold. Add a guarded version of the regular stockpile with armored guards who will whack anyone trying to steal from it if they catch him.
Gold shouldn't decay, but make raiders exponentially more common depending on how much gold/gems you're hoarding, so it acts like inflation because you will be either paying them ransoms every time they come knocking or spending it on defending your settlement.
The dev isn't fundamentally wrong, everything deteriorates. Even stone in storage has to be moved around and will slowly chip away and break apart. But he should make these systems more believable than a flat percentage disappearing into the aether every day. Items should deteriorate into something. Stone and cut stone should spoil to gravel, only useful for roads. Wood and furniture spoils to wood chips, only useful for cheap fuel. Metal and its products spoil to scrap, ready to be remelted. The Japanese are famous for scavenging every single nail from an old house to make new steel out of it. And not just while spoiling in storage, but also when consumed as an end product.
Actual trash rarely existed back then, everything was useful in some way. Only when cultures became so rich that it wasn't worth recycling their own scraps did trash start being a problem for them.

>>2090664
Why clay tablets? Wasn't there paper in this game? I haven't played in years.

>>2124486
saar do not ask questions like that

>>2122977
Game has been virtually stagnant for a couple of years now with updates either redoing parts of the game for no real reason (research, fertility, water) or downgrading parts of the game to remove fun (maintenance, trade, military). It went from a fun city builder where you play according to what the map offers, to an autism simulator where you min-max every worker and follow the same recipe every time. Fun things, like building pretty towns with canals and roads and walls, are thrown out the window. It had a lot of promise, so it's disappointing to see it flounder like this.

All he had to do was add nobles with luxury demands, harbour and wharf buildings to facilitate large-scale trade, and create a more modifiable scenario editor so you can generate a cool map you want to play on.

This game will end up like Ymir: tons of promise and a game that on-paper I would love to play, but in practice hindered by a dev with an incredibly narrow view of what the game should be.

>>2090664
>>2124486
>>2124653
And why do they need to keep recording at max speeed ad infinitum? Just to maintain the current tech level?
Laboratories and libraries eat metric tonnes of materials every day and shit out useless techs

>>2124486
Paper is still there but labs use clay tablets and libraries parchment (leather) to not have paper be used by too many services.
Problem is tech and maintenance in general just consumes way too much resources like >>2124690 says.
You have to crunch the numbers to figure out if unlocking marble latrines will bring in more immigrants than the full time workers you need to remember how to build them and the resources the researchers consume. Also the upgrade costs cut stone, which you need to unlock and craft and adds it as maintenance cost which is absurd and stone buildings get ship of theseused in like 5 years somehow.

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I don't mind the maintainence and tech mechanics as much as most people here, having to think in terms of resource flow instead of stockpiles is fine to me. They should have just made the timescale of the game appropriately longer to match so it doesn't come off as weird in places.
My main gripes about the game are just the sheer lack of QoL and good intel about certain mechanics, which gets really annoying real fast. It's such a pain to get good information about how your city is going when everything fluctuates day to day and there's no average stats.
The random events also start off neat but get annoying real fast when they just end up a interruption that you have to click through and in the worst case wait for your city to return to equilibrium so you can expand again without fucking everything up. Plagues are the worst in this regard because all the deaths cause health to tank and so I end up having to deal with a second immediately after, sometimes even three or four in a row, which I'm yet to find a real solution or countermeasure to.
Even 'positive' events like +happiness end up something I'd rather avoid because it means half a year where I can't really expand because I know there's an impending population crash and it's a pain to tell what my population will be at the end, so I'm hardly eager to start adding a bunch of jobs to make use of the population spike to begin with. That bit might be a skill issue on my part for not going in depth with the job priorities as I could though.

>>2090436
It's more like he doesn't bother with balance because he focuses more on systems. He's pretty good at listening to community feedback and fixing broken shit. He's mentioned plenty of times real balancing will come last.

>>2125648
I'll never understand how the hell someone can keep crime low with so few guard posts. I need at least 15 at maximum level to prevent them a little, but it's never enough.

>SINGS OF SEX HUEHUEHUEHUE

Quick how do I make lots of monies? I just need 20 millions to buy a province
And fish and egg prices are steadily dropping...

>>2128291
Mine and sell gems. You DID pick a settlement location with a gem deposit right?

>>2128806
Not on purpose but have both gems and sithilon
Doesn't seems like the answer, I built the silithon mine and I'm producing 1 piece per day to sell at 400, but theres no way to scale without heavy tech investment. Probably still worth it for such a low amount of workers though
Ill start mass farming opium I guess, can't go wrong with that

>>2128806
>>2128951
desu you're better off absolutely drowning the market in food or something low in value like that because gem/sth value will drop hard once you up production
you will earn more selling 10000 for 1 a piece than 10 gems for 400

>>2123271
just ensure a steady supply of the required resources. think long term and not short term. automatic not manual. also some tech being a net negative is a good thing because it makes you think instead of mindlessly researching everything.

>you got a tiny clay deposit on your map
>guess you are fucked lol
remembering why I dropped this game before

So when do you typically start researching in v69? I'm around 700 citizens now with happiness still at max
I'm a bit concerned that healthcare will be a problem soon, also I don't like burying everyone in mass graves

Any must-have mods in this version?

Everytime I come back to this game the research system just gets worse and worse

>>2131929
I have never mined clay or made pottry. I always just buy it

>Your city is closed
At least I got to 400 pop before my game bugged :( what the fuck does it mean and how do I fix it

why are my janitors not working

>>2122977
The game is good and I like it, but >>2124665 is right in that the dev has now spent several years applying all of his time and talent to making the game more tedious and monotone.

>>2132563
I have the stone and wood, they are not picking it up and using it

>>2132574
Maybe they are not in range

>>2132583
browsing the forums I found this from the dev:
>a known issue that will be fixed in the next major version. For now, you can just use smaller janitor rooms instead. This is caused by janitor rooms being unable to fetch single resources quickly enough, and the room size does not actually increase their ability to do so.
yaaay.

>>2132563
Have you tried paying them?

why is this game called songs of sy(e)x
what is syx? the world? a toponym? devs long lost male lover?

>>2132768
all out of hotpockets

>can no longer see map resources before choosing the location of your capital
what the fuck

>>2132896
Map resources don't exist anymore

>>2132520
It means the path to your throne room is blocked. You either locked a gate or accidentally walled in your throne.

>>2133105
For over a year my throne has been two tiles from the map entrance and still no migrants. 100% happiness and loyalty the whole time.

I'm going to start a new game. This is gay and retarded.

I'm going to abandon my city when I get to 1500 pop for the title, majority amevias and ~20% pigmen mostly farming and weaving

Things to keep in mind for future cities:
Embark on a river and put farms near fresh water so I don't have to pump water across half the map
Reroll until foundation tiles are not retarded, currently all the good foundations are under the fucking ocean
Don't sell slaves of the same species as my trading partners or they get pissed and break treaties
Unlock nobles asap they give a massive boost to production

I think I will pick tilapis next and focus on military and enslaving everyone else

>>2090668
It's just another case of devs having no idea how the real world works and being hilariously wrong.

What the hell did he do to slavery? With a pop of 700 and 120 in the army I get a slave uprising from 30 slaves.
Also the science change feels really bad. Now I'm literally not using paper at all, while using clay for anything other than science becomes impossible.

>>2133864
What kind of slaves? Some species are bad slaves, the most obedient slaves are bugs and cretonians
Science is supposed to be a late game thing now I guess
I'm at 1800 citizens and still doing fine with just the free science from unlocking higher titles

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This my 2k amevia city I'm leaving behind
Feels like the good size to start researching I have 300/400 oddjobers doing nothing, also I've exhausted all the migrants to grow more and reach the next pop threshold
The most infuriating thing is the inflation, I'm capped at around 8 millions at this point and it's not enough to buy a region from anyone

>>2134149
Is this a human city?

>>2123267
>game becomes shit
>i dont want to waste my time playing shit
>"lol get filtered nab"
???

Can you build bridges across rivers yet? Or do you still have to raise the land, damming the river, if had water physics.

>>2134300
no, pigmen.

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>play the tutorial
>Hotam Greattusk dies of old age
Whoops.

>>2134826
No bridges yet. Water is sort of useless now because they changed the way soil fertility works.

>>2134343
Filtered :^)

I respect it, but it's too autistic for me. The social dorf fort like aspects are the most fun part, would be cool to roleplay and chill, don't wanna strategize and shit.

>>2136853
It has "difficulty" settings, so you can adjust the things you aren't interested in.

>>2124665
truth nuke

>>2124665
>hindered by a dev with an incredibly narrow view of what the game should be
Is that it or is he just listened to the autistic breed of fan who keeps complaining the game is too easy after exploiting every mechanic and bug.
It happens to a lot of games that try to be playable during development, and then try to balance the game for vhewter

>>2134826
Bridges are built across deep water

>>2135642
How'd he fuck up water?

>>2134826
Can't you just pretend there's a culvert?