The official 2025-edition RTS guide>but my favourite game isn't here!I don't care
>>2148599awful
>>2148602Awfully large list, yes!
>>2148599Dogshit.
>>2148607I'm sorry but I'm not going to list BAR or Zero-K, I'm just not!
genuinely the worst recommendation list i've ever seen
it's not even so wrong it's funny, intentionally or not. it's just gay and retarded.
>>2148615>>2148614Yeah I get it you're a special-snowflake who hates Starcraft, AoE, CoH, Homeworld, and Total War
>>2148599cringe
>>2148599>can have fun playing oldfart games like Lords of the Realm & MULE yet got filtered hard by PerimeterAnyway, is the furryfag RTS fun?
>>2148632it's a very lightweight russian-civil-war-esque RTS, depends if you're willing to forgo depth for theme
>>2148635How much depth sacrifice are we talking here? As long as an RTS doesn't devolve into smashing units against each other, busy work or precise instruction following it should be somewhat fun technically speaking.
>>2148641are you familiar with Oil Rush?Units generate at nodes and you lead them around with your flagbearerYou do still build things
>>2148599>new RTS player?>>no>want old games?>>yes>WARNING TO NEW RTS PLAYERS...!Not sure if the creator is a mistrusting dumbass, or an insulting dumbass.
>>2148642Can't say I am, no. So like Dota or Lol?
>>2148644Mistrusting, but just realisticYes, it's a warning for new players who disregard the first check or just straight out don't read (people do this all the time)
>The officialI don't care.
T&T is complete garbage
>>2148649It's a node-control based RTS with simplified attacking (you don't need to manually direct each unit, they just follow your flag)A gamplay video would give a good idea of how this looks
>>2148652I needed an example of an exceptionally simple RTS for beginnersIt makes sense that people more familiar with RTS would find it too flat
>>2148650It's an RTS "flowchart," who the fuck cares?
>>2148657you're a fucking retard
>>2148599the only rts games i love are age of empires 1-3/mythology (didn't care for 4) and rise of legendsdidnt like rise of nationsdidnt like starcraftdidnt like iron harvesti only care about the singleplayer experience, what games should i play
>>2148661Not really an argument now is it
>>2148662The entire chart is based off singleplayer
>>2148599do zoomers really?
>>2148671sorry grandad but 2000 was 25 years ago, "Old" is relative
>>2148599>Company of Heroes 3 on this fucking thing twiceKill yourself and stay killed
>>2148599Some of these are awful. THe thing you do get right is that you shouldn't recommend people to really old titles and that something like the AoE remaster is a good entry point, but ffs things like Dawn of War 1, Red Alert 2 and Shogun 2 are all incredibly user-friendly and are hardly inaccessible these days. These kinds of placements are especially baffling since you seem to understand that AoE2 is a good entry point game despite it functionally running close today to how it did several decades ago.Gonna have to go back to the drawing board on this one, anon. At least stay consisten.
>>2148662You've probably played it already but if you haven't and based on what you said there I'd recommend Empire Earth 1. It very much tries to go for the AoE style and has RoN's scope, but it stays closer to AoE's gameplay with similar rock-paper-scissor mechanics and the concept of aging up and upgrading your civilization while structures and cities work more like they did in AoE.>>2148675>Has the worst taste known to man>Has the worst personality seen on this board>Made the worst list everGod you people really are cancer.
>>2148680it applies twice thoughever
>>2148686>claims to have good taste>recommends EE1 in 2025
>>2148599Actually dogshit, never fucking post on /vst/ again
>>2148688Well then help out the earlier anon by recommending something better that fits his ultra-narrow niche of AoE clones that are nothing like the games he listed as not being his cup of tea. Empire Earth is just about the only game that fits that bill.
>>2148682Slightly older games like RA2 that haven't received a remaster have some slight QoL and structure differences that might be a hurdle for new players. I forgot that DoW had a remaster lately.
>>2148703he would enjoy Cossacks and Stronghold 1
>>2148705>No remasterNot a problem, it's been rereleased on Steam in its original form and can be played on modern systems just fine.>QoLWhat QoL issues could possibly get in your way? We're not talking about a clunky mess like Dune 2. UI is extremely straightforward and a child can figure out how to select and move units. It's as good of a candidate for babby's first RTS as AoE2.>>2148706I can see both scratching that itch but they're also a lot further away from AoE gameplay-wise. Not bad suggestions though, hats off.
>>2148708RA2 has a few things that are no issue for a regular RTS player, but might trip up new players: Certain important information not readily available in the game:>how much damage a certain unit does>how much health a unit has (beyond its high-level healthbar)>unit damage interactions, e.g. do tanks do the same damage to both tanks and infantryTutorials are a little light Production queues won't tell you there's insufficient resources until you actually run out of fundsThere's no automation outside of harvestersMulti-building production is a little unusual compared to other RTSA game with more recent updates like AoE2DE has more feedback, automation, repeat production, better hotkeys, more proactive alerts. It just eases that cognitive burden on the new player somewhat, which can be so stressful for a first-timer
>>2148717>If I'm not told that a machine gun isn't effective against a tank's armor, I'm helpless to figure out what to do>3rd grade multiplication is a tall order for me>Having to command the units on my own is too complexLike I said, not an issue at all and something most people should be able to wrap their heads around and if anything having sixty buttons for automation and more is going to be more intimidating for some. All you need in RA2 is a mouse and a pair of eyes, it's as straightforward as something can be.
>>2148723Well an example of potential confusion is with armour typesRA2 has many different armour types, none of these are stated in the game and they're not necessarily common sense (of course infantry takes only 25% damage from a tank shell)I mean just look at the range of damage for a rhino tank here:
>>2148727These are things anyone can figure out without playing the game.>AT round against infantry does reduced damage>It's good against other vehicles>It's good against buildingsA literal child can figure out in their first engagement that the rhino isn't good at blowing up infantry and that they should use other things for it just like a child can figure out that an Apocalypse has heavy armor just by looking at it. You're making it way more complicated in your head than it needs to be.
>>2148730The average person playing an RTS does not know what an "AT round" is, they just know tanks have big guns and will be frustrated when an enemy infantry seems to be taking almost no damage Players can learn this organically as you point out, though modern QoL avoids that whole process and its potential frustrations by making these interactions immediately explicit, e.g. the new tutorials in AoE2DE, or the exact unit health and damage interactions noted on each unit in SC2. This is why those handholding games could be easier for a new player.
>>2148735I think you're just projecting your own stupidity and need to be handheld at every step of the way onto others. A literal child can figure out these things in minutes through the most basic trial and error when playing the first stage of either campaign. I don't understand why you need to pretend that it's somehow really complicated to figure out RA2's rock-paper-scissors mechanics without giant flashing numbers flying above the units at all times especially when an interface with a trillion numbers and buttons is always going to be a lot more intimidating to someone than something where all you've got to worry about is a sidebar and left clicking on units.
>>2148735This hypothetical person that gets mad and ragequits RA2 because it's confusing how the tank isn't effective against infantry yet somehow has the patience to be tutorialized through a dozen bars and stats doesn't exist.
RA2 achieved clarity through simplicity, which is rare for an old RTS, so it would be a mistake to overlook that
>>2148599Warcraft 3 has maybe the most handholdy tutorial for a game I've ever seen, it's absolutely fine to start with as a new player.
OP (fag) seems to think that many the most approachable 00s strategy games are the same as the obtuse experimental shit they put out in the 90s when everyone was making botched C&C clones. Safe to say, he's never played these at all.
>>2148686i played ee2 a million years ago but my brain hadn’t been installed yet so i can’t remember if i thought it was goodi’ll probably look into this>>2148706always looked over cossacks cause i thought it was some kind of ultra specific eastern europe style game but maybe i’ll look into iti did try stronghold and i think i wanted to like it more than i actually liked it but i may not have given it a fair shake, twas many moons ago
>>2148599>no BAR>no ZK>no modded TAabsolute shytI don't even know what the warning about QoL is supposed to mean
>>2148765Older games, with some exceptions, have worse QoL than new games
>>2148759I've played every game in that picture
>>2148599You are forgetting a major classic.>I don't careYOU BETTER FUCKING START
>>2148765OP is a dumb fag. If you scroll up and read his conversation with an earlier anon he goes on about how Red Alert 2 is hyper complicated and clunky because he doesn't have numbers flashing whenever a unit is hit and imagines that people are just going to ragequit because they don't get nonstop tutorials and popups about everything. According to OP, QoL = handholding. That's why he thinks that Dawn of War has "poor QoL" while CoH3 is a perfect game for beginners.tl;dr retard posts the worst list ever don't bother trying to find logic in it.
>>2149604none of the games in the picture have flashing numbers
>>2149631>AutisticHe's making fun of the fact that OP thought that Red Alert 2 could confuse new players because life bars in that game don't display exact numbers for health and expect players to intuitively understand that a tank has heavier armor than an infantryman armor.
>>2148599Awful advice, recommending newer players to modern games with modern QoL will condition them to hate the lack of it in older games when they eventually get interested in trying them
>>2149639People don't want to play Dune or Herzog Zwei
>>2149649This post is so fucking retarded you have to be OP. Yes, you dumb fag, we know that Dune 2 and other early RTS games in the 90s are clunky and have primitive UIs. However, that's not why people called you a faggot because the chart you made doesn't warn people about early genre entries like Dune 2 and Warcraft 1. It warns people against Red Alert 2 and Dawn of War 1. If you'd done the former you wouldn't be clowned on but since you did the latter everyone's calling you a dumb fag. Don't try to retcon your own stupid decisions just because you made one of the worst posts in the history of /vst/. Take the L and never post here again.
>>2149656You're vastly emotionally overreacting to the situation
>>2148599Absolute trash.
>>2149669Your chart fucking sucks, fuck off from /vst/.
The only rts worth anything is kknd.Everything else ha shit pathfinding and a cringe story.
>>2149710KKND really is an underrated gem of the 90s.
>>2149707Post your chart then :)
>>2149716I'd win by default by not recommending CoH3 or labeling Dawn of War as "user unfriendly" so there's no point in wasting time on it.
>>2148599Seek canadian healthcare.
>>2148608you are an unbearably retarded faggoti think you should kill yourself, immediately
>>2150121you are mentally ill
OP is the biggest faggot that ever went to this board and he will never be a woman nor will he receive a (you) from me.
>>2148599>not only includes the absolute dogshi5 that is COH3, but includes it TWICETroll chart, move along.
>>2148599I still think the "new player" section should have a bunch of non-real time games, because multi-tasking is what filter most newcomers.No APM worry, all the time in the world to plan your shit and remember what you need to do this turn, etc - would really help newfags get their brain go wide mode before jumping into the big pool.Shit like HoMM1/2 (3 has too much shit going on). You got base building, scouting, map control, resources management, etc.>recommending tooth and tail, for any reason everYeah no.>for players trying to find an RTS that might finally click with >no exotic-ish shit like Dungeon Keeper, Populous III or Warzone 2100Not helping the "all RTS play the same" bullshit, Anon.
>>2150768>I still think the "new player" section should have a bunch of non-real time gamesbut brotherit's a real-time strategy guide
>>2150768>Introduce people to playing RTS by playing a different genre Anon I agree that the list is full of complete horseshit but you could at least have bothered to read the actual title. It's not even that the advise is invalid since someone that knows how to think ten turns ahead in chess can likely translate some of that skill over to planning ahead in a RTS but that's just not helpful for the list.>Exotic/niche listActually a pretty good idea though, more players need to experience the breadth of the genre.
>>2148717A new player isn’t going to interact with or care about any of that information unless they were really interested in learning the game competitively.
>>2148599If you’re a new player the games to recommend are >SC2>WC3>AoE2>AoM>CoH1>DoW1>WiC>Homeworld>SupCom>RA2That’s it
>>2148599>Don't start with old games for your own good.>So here's a fucking 1999 release.I see your parents had a handling accident during your early childhood.EVERY SINGLE FUCKING GAME ON THAT LIST apart from Tib Sun and Brood War is younger than AoE2.
>>2151059you might not have heard yet, but they did this "Definitive Edition" with a few updates
>>2151061You can put a lipstick on a pig but it will remain a fucking pig.The "Old games" in his list include Brood War, which had a 2017 remaster too, making it 7 years younger than SC2, 10 years younger than World in Conflict and a year younger than Halo Wars 2.Homeworld Remastered is 2015.Heck, Age of Mythology has last year's Retold.
>>2151061Not really beating his (correct) allegations that you suffered a devastating cranial collapse when your parents threw you down a spiral staircase as a child. If you can play AoE2 then most of the "old and bad" games should be well within your range since a lot of them are less mechanically complex than it and can be bought on Steam and GoG optimized for modern systems.
>>2151063Brood war had its graphics improved and nothing elseAoE2 received a new comprehensive tutorial and had all its rough edges polished through automation and UI improvements
>>2151066The issue is not mechanical complexity, it's clunkinessWarcraft 2 is very simple, the curve is the clunky interactionOlder games are more likely to be hostile than hand-holding modern games
>>2151068Star Craft has its tutorial integrated into the first Terran missions you brain dead moron.
>>2151071>A single sidebar and resource counter is too much for OPs 60 IQ to handle
>>2151071I just said it's not the complexityHave you played WC2 lately? No rally points or production queues is a good example
>>2148599>coh>old game>mechanically identical through the entire seriesand why so much coh?
>>2151089there are like 6 C&C games there
>>2151078>Whines about the UI being obtuse and incomprehensible >Gives some minor QoL stuff as an example >Not even one of the legit annoying things such as the limit on the number of units you can command without grouping them (which most stages doesn't really have as an issue due to the small army sizes until late game)You fucking suck, OP.
>>2151122So you agree but you're angry because I didn't complain enoughI think you're just looking for an excuse to be mad
>>2151128No you're being told that you have no idea what you're talking about.
>>2148599I hope you didn't make this pic because it's worthless garbage
>>2151147Better than any you'll ever make
>>2148599>QoL can impact new playersThis was made by a normalfag and everyone who agrees with this should kill themselves
>>2151151yes only us grognards will ever know the euphoria of telling each worker to mine.
>>2151072And? It still plays like it did in 1998. AoE2 DE does not play like it did in 1999.
>>2151068>RA2/SH:C/EAW/WC3/DOW1>More clunky that AOE2Are you an abo or something? Because you sure seem like you sniff a lot of gas.
>>2151341Yes those are all clunkier than Age of Empires 2: Definitive Edition. They are not as clunky as Age of Empires 2: Age of Kings. This is not hard lmao
>>2151338>>2151346You're a blithering fucking moron. Something that was dead simple in the late 90s or 00s is still dead simple today even if you're too mentally damaged to understand how basic unit selection works without a 3 hour online seminar guiding you through the process you brain dead imbecile.
>>2151348It has nothing to do with complexity, it has to do with clunkiness. Old games aren’t hard, they’re just obnoxious if you’re not used to their dated control interfaces and lack of QoL.
>>2151350Your definition of QoL so far this thread has been total handholding and the game playing itself so there's little wonder why your list and all your takes are total shit.
>>2151356>has been total handholding and the game playing itself Where?
>>2151357In every single post where you'vetried to fumble your way to giving an example only to have literally everyone tell you to kill yourself.
>>2151361I mean if you find manual reseeding farms and only being able to select 12 units fun then I don’t know what to tell you lol >only to have literally everyone tell you to kill yourself.You mean you and your schizoid delusions?
I feel like all strategies can be rated on two scales.>pic related
>>2148599>SC2Fine>AoE2 DEFine>Halo Wars 2Fine>WiCFine>CoH3No and I say this as someone who has hundreds of hours in the game. For new RTS players the single most important thing isn’t quality of life or “newness”, it’s having high quality casual content and hopefully a lot of it. SC2, AoE2, and WiC clear that bar with flying colors (Halo Wars scrapes past it imo) but CoH3’s single player is pretty bad. This spot should really be CoH1 or even Dawn of War 1. >AoE4Same problem as CoH3: the single player is really bad. Replace with AoM Retold>T&TI’d actually keep this but only because it’s the RTS game I’d recommend to a woman. There’s a few obvious missing new player recommendations too. Supreme Commander, Warcraft 3, Homeworld, Total War Warhammer 3, etc… are all very accessible and casual.
>>2151373oldcom is not more autistic, the opposite is true
>>2151383>it’s the RTS game I’d recommend to a woman. That's gotta be the harshest comment about T&T I ever read.
>>2151373I appreciate your squiggly matrix
Is Halo Wars 2 worth playing?I decently enjoyed Halo Wars 1, even pushed me to buy the actual Halo and give a try (was a massive disappointment), but when I searched online about HW2 there was a lot of negative comment for some reason.
>>2151383There are definitely improvements to be made to the chart. I overestimated the aversion new players might have to slightly older graphics/UI/QoL
>>2151401Women like casual games with charming art, which I think Tooth and Tail qualifies for. >>2151411I do agree with some of your decisions, like not recommending StarCraft as someone’s first RTS despite its status in the genre. But it’s still a balancing act. You can easily overvalue newness just as much as you can overvalue “classics”. I wish older RTS games all had remakes on the same level of quality as AoE2 DE. It would make most of this discussion moot.
>>2151406Thank you.Feel free to put your own games in there (or make a better version, mine was just an example for illustrative purposes).
This might be one of the worst RTS recommendation lists of all time. I'm one hundred percent serious.>>2151383CoH3 shouldn't have even had a single player component. I don't know why it's masquerading as anything but a competitive online rts. Wasted dev time.It's unfortunate that the devs don't know how to play their own game as well, because they can't balance for shit. Otherwise it'd be a fun game to play in queuing PUGs.I'm ignoring the Jewish dlc and bad theater/faction selection too. The former has made me decide to never play again, the latter I could look past if the game had love put into it.
>>2151647Yeah, you hate every single game in the picture? Impressive
At this point I'm pretty sure OP is just a troll or has a humiliation fetish. There's no way someone can genuinely post a list this shitty and then flail around for a week defending such a monumentally shitty post.
>>2151669Point out where I said that.I'm guessing you're the OP by the feminine aggression you're displaying.
>>2151679You said it was one of the worst lists of all time, it doesn't follow that you hate the contents of the list?
>>2151677It hasn't been a week thoughever, have you lost track of time?
>>2148599>give me more civilisational collapse
>>2151680No.I'm not expanding upon this any further since this conversation isn't going to lead to anything useful or enjoyable.
>>2151683You're not expanding because you have nothing of substance to say
>>2151680>>2151681Yeah see, this is my point. There's no way an actual human being can be this obtuse and stupid. He's either jerking off to the insults or thinking he's le epek trole for posting the worst list in the board's history and then subsequently gets made fun of by literally everyone else.
>>2151687I dare you to provide an actual paragraph of criticism. You won't, because it's easier to just state your opinion with no follow-through. Try to be more like this guy:>>2151383
Arrogant and condescending list. You're a spiteful middle-aged man who considers himself abnormally wise despite having achieved nothing, aren't you ?
>>2151737bruv that's half 4chan
>>2151737My guess would've been retarded zoomer that read about shit on Discord and Wikipedia without any clue what anything is about.
>>2148599Unbelievably retarded list.
>>2148599
>>2151394you're totally wrong but you're too autistic to even understand why
>>2151383also multiplayer for teams vs is shit. also add aoeo aside for aom
>>2151368>only being able to select 12 units fun then I don’t know what to tell you lolHow old are you? you realize original C&C predated SC and allowed unlimited selection, right? SC made a choice to only allow groups of twelve to prevent the deathballing you see in SC2
>>2158803Brother you went all the way to page 10 to revive some thread nobody has posted in for a week
>>2158803It's more likely that the 12 unit restriction came from a UI limitation, as C&C doesn't have the same UI design of individual unit stats at the bottom hence why it allows unlimited selection
>Not mentioning the most underrated, unheard of RTS where the real good guys can win the war.
>>2148599Company of Heroes is way easier to penetrate for a completely new person than World in Conflict. This is retarded.
>>2148727I've finished the game on hard a couple times and know none of this other than tank hurt tank tank no hurt infantry.It's really not that hard.
>>2153479>add a dead game played by a handful of autists that couldn't let go no
>>2158803Older than the genre, and I don't give a fuck why they did it, I don't want to deal with it.
>>2160285World in Conflict is actually very easy to get into, especially the single player campaign. You only have a limited number of units, the most relevant hotkeys are Q and E for unit abilities, and tactical aid is extremely intuitive. It's part of why it is such a perfect game, it's dead simple and yet extremely fun.
>>2160311It runs like ass on modern computers.
>>2160319Works on my machine
>>2158803>Reviving the shittiest thread with the faggiest OPYou're a bad person.
>>2148680It's a good rec for beginners.>intuitively know what most units do>no workers/economy just capture points everywhere>no base building>only have to control 5-12 units over a normal game
>>2160899Still making the worst arguments in favor for having the worst games on the worst list, I see.
>>2161185Do you have anything to discuss or are you just going to complain
>>2160272uh huh I also watch mandalore and get all my obscure gaming takes from him
>>2160311also you can't alt+tab without the game crashing. Shit game. CoH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indian shitting street >>>>>>>>>>>>> WiC
>>2148599>EaW in **old** categorywhat
>>21612722006 was 19 years ago
>>2161194There is nothing to discuss. Your opinions are just awful.
>>2161278i'm not old. fuck you.
>No Battle for Middle-Earthdisappointing
>>2148599AoE2 despite the remaster plays very dated, has shitty pathfinding and engine quirks (like attack move being fucked), i would recommend Age of Mythology or even AoE4 over it to a zoomer beginner.
>>2163232Play dated compared to what, AoM?
>>2160321Might be lucky. It's basically garunteed to be a laggy unplayable mess in some missions at random without some INI tweaks and patches.I love it but I wouldn't put it in a 'zoom zoom babies first RTS that wont offput the fragile and stupid' category. Thats for stuff that works out the box.
>>2163299That's fair enough
I like how Supreme Commander is in the section with "bad" QoL but it has the best multi monitor implementation I've seen in an RTS.
>>2148599>there's so much wrong instead of picking it apart I'm just going to call you a nigger and save us all the timeNigger
stuff like Total War, RD, UG Civil War, and Men of War Assault Squad 2 is more RTT
>>2163884me,orgot to put Red Alert 2 in Old but Gold
>>2163248dated since Red Alert 2
>>2163884>Red Alert 3>Not old but goldhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ptZLTkz9bi0Gay
>>2163884It's very funny seeing someone put CoH and AoE3 on the same level
>>2163907gameplay wiseidk if a game has come close to video game 3D waifus in RA3>>2163922why?
>>2163907I coomed so much back then bc Zhana striking that poseSuki Toyama ending is the best one though and gave me yellow feverdamn maybe it is gold
>>2163932CoH is a masterful game with amazing voice lines, good campaigns, and innovative combat. Its legacy can be found in every subsequent tactical RTS. It's right up there with Warcraft 3 as kings of the genre. AoE3 is the disappointing sequel to a better game that tried out a few ideas, sold well, and then was promptly forgotten.
>>2148599It's funny how Warhammer 40k needs to be put in a category of its own because its slop games can't compete with non-IP sci-fi games like supcom.
>>2163932>gameplay wiseThe game had actors like Curry, Simmons & Pryce hamming it up to kingdom come, actresses out of a softcore film and a rule of cool storyline and unit design; the gameplay could have been literally Tiberian Twilight tier and I would still call it old but gold. Also the ost was great:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StCG38rVd28&list=PL3AC0EA40F22F7992&index=6
>>2163942supcomfags' saltyness about their mid (at best) game being outclassed by pretty much everything else will never cease to amuse me.I thought you were mostly malding about Starcraft tho. Did you get tired of everyone BTFO'ing you in those threads and decided you needed an easier target?lmao
>>2164166I like both Supcom and Starcraft
>>2148599>no solar nations 2 This isn't a /vst/ list
>>2148599The terrifying thing about this list is that it might be serious
>Are you new to RTS>Yes>Where do you want to start? >...>Hello? >....(He left)
>>2148599Amazing list. Well done, OP.
>>2148599Very nice
Stop necro bumping your shitty thread OP.
is sose 2 already dead?
