Warcraft 3 General - This entire thread needs to be purged.
>>2174399Custom Castle Defense is an amazing map.
Here's my current build of my revamp for CCD. https://files.catbox.moe/2xqjt2.w3x
>>2174399Why isn't WC3 on steam?
So what is better lol or dota?
>>2175442HoSK
>>2174541because Blizzard wants you to use their dogshit plattform instead
Are there any good custom maps that aren't just jank trying to turn a 20+ year old RPGesque strategy game into something it isn't?
>>21743991. i found out i have a roc key registered on battle.net (no tft), is this enough to play multiplayer?2. how's the state of reforged these days?3. is the game still active?
I don't suppose there is custom patch or mod for higher resolution support or camera not being being so intimate with my character's asshole?
>>2174414For real this is pretty good
>>2174399I have always wanted to learn to play that Darkness vs Live. Must be really fun to be good at it.
>>2175872>i found out i have a roc key registered on battle.net (no tft), is this enough to play multiplayer?idk I would just try it>2. how's the state of reforged these days?just turn on classic mode and it's pretty just like before>3. is the game still active?I don't care about the MP but there are still new custom campaigns being made, even tho not as much as in the golden daysone of my favourites is the Garithos Human Campaign by Executor Nralhttps://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/garithos-human-campaign.358457/
Can you turn off the new unit sounds yet? That shit is so bad.
I still have my WC3 ISOs stored on my external drive. 20+ years of memories with this bad boy. I wonder what patch these are on.I wonder if they would even run well on my current machine, last time I played was on Win7 + 1080p/60Hz monitor. Not sure if they run smooth out of the box with Win10 + 2K/144Hz.
All the remake needed was widescreen support, instead they went and tried their absolute hardest to ruin the game for some reason. Still shocking to this day. Spent so much fucking time on this game. Heck, still play games based on custom maps created in WC3. Fucking sad what happened to Blizzard, man.
>>2176816The remake needed widescreen support, multicore support, and reconnect capabilities.
When would you guys be availible to play some customs or other shit ?(i suck ass at the game but that dosent stop me from enjoying it) (im also using official shit)
>>2176876I mean I'm already playing customs all the time, nowadays every custom has a little discord group, what timezone are you in and what customs do you like? A lot of customs aren't really /vst/ materialSome maps I like are NotD: AM which is hosted almost daily at 6PM CST, and OriginZ which is sort of like Metastasis or Parasite
This game really is a gem, there are still quality maps that were developed during and after reforged in 2025, and devs honing their mapsThere are generations of WC3 maps and so many that didn't get updated for reforged or are outdated and no longer hosted
>>2176905>what timezone are you in and what customs do you like?Im EU and for custom i honestly only know what i dislike DOTA shit and TDLast custom shit i played was some sort of Zombie thing where you need to do objectives as space marine i thing and that was like year ago or more.
>>2176912I prefer custom town builders that have heros, basically like take WC3 core design and then make you get attacked by waves that get harder and you have to build towers, support buildings for heroes, etc.
>>2174399Square collision boxes really fucked this game
Is this the WC2 thread too?
>>2174399>>2177159I don't see why it wouldn't be. WC2, WC1.
>>2175442atm its lol. dota is bloated dogshit
>>2174404>>2174414Are you a developer for ccd?
>>2176816Sad to see wc3, the greatest game of all time, get updated into a bloated mess so it could be resold as Reforged.The reforged campaign also disgusts me.When you make a tv show, based on a book, you make concessions, like the iron throne in GoT, it needs to fit in a place where they can film, so it is made smaller. You have similar issues between genres in video games, when making Azeroth in World of Warcraft, they had to make concessions to the map, warping it and the locales to make it a playable game, then the Reforged campaign uses that as a base since it's what all the WoW fans are familiar with. It's a terrible lie.
>>2176912You would like the NotD: AM maps, it's an extremely cooperative zombie shooting game. Not sure if the host is NA or EU but he hosts at 6 PM CST or 1 AM CET for years consistently, like a bot, it's a good team-oriented gameOriginZ is basically Among Us and hosted at more convenient EU times typicallyWC3 communities do seem to run more chuddyThere are some good Reforged maps and many that didn't make it to Reforged that I miss
>>2177503Personally. Blizzard should've gone hard for reforge every expansion from wow is made into a wc3 expansion. So we'd play the campaign with concessions for it being rts. Undead, Human, etc. Joke heroes like fursuit fish guy from wow.Naga have a full flesh out implemention in outland dlc, as do demons. Etc
>>2178448Do you think if a studio contacted blizzard to talk about doing this? Assume i work games industry not big indie
>>2178448WoW should've been it's own canon or be an unofficial spin offeven the first two "good" expansion relied solely on the "look it's the character from WC3 now look at him being ruined by dogshit writing"
Thoughts on Grubby?
>>2178769He is alright. Autistic af, living his best life (rich, cute model high IQ wife, tall, happy, etc). The only issue with him is that he puts so much effort to blend with other streamers which is cringe, but i can understand why.
>>2174541After how OW2 was greeted there (then again, all this negativity was for a brutally good reason)?
>>2179009How
>>2178769Mostly what the other guy says.Wc3 is my favourite game because of UMS, but I also like the campaign and melee, so I like his wc3 videos.If people have careers in video games, they're generally shills to some extent.So Artosis is gonna be excited and talk nice about Stormgate, because he'll have work to cast games for Stormgate in the future. Consciously or not. Grubby has some of that, but less of it, he's nice to devs and doesn't want to burn bridges(bad thing). He's got a great understanding of rts mechanics in detail, not just within one game, so he can be very good at breaking down an rts game. It's like if Totalbiscuit was actually good at any of the video games he covered, but Grubby can only do it for rts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIJRrtGy0aUHe can be a bit passive aggressive, but no dealbreaker for me.He's also generally much smarter than most other people who have careers in video games.
>>21758721. Yes. Attach it to your B.net account on the website. Then on the client, install the game in Offline mode.2. Pretty good for once. Most if not all major bugs are fixed and you won't notice issues if you play it on Classic graphics.3. Yes. All skill levels are presented on W3C and B.net, but W3C matchmaking gives you superior games when you're seeded.
>>2176816Thank you Brian Souza for directing the game into the ground, then quitting right before the game launched you piece of shit. Literally wasted dev time by taking art assets that were faithful to the original War3 and then said, "make it look like the mop cinematic and realistic :3c"
>>2177151disagree, hitboxes being universally squares make surrounds easy to understand and execute
>>2182884>Then on the client, install the game in Offline modeyou mean, i have to turn on battle.net, turn on offline mode, then i can install reforged? because currently reforged only has the purchase button
>>2177503Reforged campaign is terrible and woobifies some important missions like Stratholme, but the Classic version is just as good as the original IMO
>>2178769Fun content, fun guy. Love GrubbyTalks and Bronze League Heroes
>>2182899Yes. Log out of your Battle.net account, and press the little gear icon on the top right of the login screen. It should give you the option to log in on Offline mode. There you'll see War3:R as able to be installed. If your RoC key is valid and attached to your B.net account through the website, you will be able to play the game normally. You won't be able to enable Reforged graphics but lol that's a good thing.
>>2182901He should make more guides.t. Shitter getting into melee
Pov athas didn't purge the city and the kingdoms fell faster Pov atlas didn't get the blade and didn't get corrupted but had no ships and was trapped
>>2182911why the fuck did they have to make that so complicated?
>>2176216Anub'arak campaign soon!
>>2182919Because something broke years ago and whoever they had to maintain that shit was fired years ago.It wasn't just latte sippers that were laid off at Blizzard, there were serious back-end guys that maintained years worth of code and they were fired before the MS/Acti merge. It's partially the reason why Reforged was in such a dogshit state for so long; The team IIRC is 3 people, only 1 of which deals with code and is a lower-tier low-paid individual.The fact it still works at all is a miracle.
>>2182911>>2182940i tried the "appear offline" option but the launcher was still online and it forced me to buy reforged, is there another button to launch offline mode?anyway, i think it's kinda crazy when you compare what i'm trying to do to play one of the most iconic games of all time to what MS is doing with it's entire RTS catalogue
>>2182914BLH is what made me get into War3 in the first place. If people can be that shitty, surely I could be better, right?
>>2182942It is "Continue Without Logging In," which is the launcher's "Offline" mode. Appear Offline is just the status for your friends list.Try that and see if you can install it then, it still works.
>>2182945Oh, thank you. Blizz is a bunch of incompetent fucks.
>>2182946Enjoy.Strongly consider installing W3Champions. The FloTV function alone is worth the time.
>>2182948>FloTV functionwhat's that?
>>2182949The chads at W3Champions managed to incorporate a Live Game function that lets you see games other people are playing live with a 180 second delay.You can sort it by custom games, you can sort it by team, 1v1, and by a MMR band. So if you want to see some high level 1v1, low level 1v1, team games, and Custom Games like Direct Strike and Risk, if it's being played you can observe it. It's good for learning, too.When you install W3Champions you'll see a little TV icon on the bottom row labled FloTV.
>>2182959this is the stuff that Blizzard should have put into their remasters, thanks anon
>>2175892Yes, it's called Reforged.
Update: Blizzard to Block RoC keys from being redeemed on November 21st.Notably the wording suggests development will continue on the game. It is safe to assume that the back end will be tighter but we may also see a shop being implemented.https://news.blizzard.com/en-gb/article/24241844/original-warcraft-iii-keys-expire-on-november-21
>>2183003saarsredeem your codes
>>2182919to make you buy reforged
There is a blizzard classic general over /vr/, can we sustain this and that one too?t. WC3 melee newbie
>>2183386O cool i didnt knew it existed (i think i seen it before but classical would tell to me that those games would be like from 90s)
If you didn't play this game in 2002-2005 then you missed out, sorry.
>>2183386It's another place to post and keep tabs on but there's a schizo poster that freaks out if you ever mention Reforged, Resurrected, or Remastered in any capacity. I plan on posting on both.
>do Cryptlord+fiend tech or expand >Get it more or less to the point I can effortlessly beat the insane ai so the speed should be okay >Go to ladder>Check on Opp>He has a level 2 warden by the time I have my cryptlord out (sub 2:45m)>panick so bad I let my CL die to creepsHuh???
>>2184077What was your build order? Even an AoW-crept NE opener will have a hero up on part with other races. Warden also directly counters the two openers you suggested, fast expand has you vulnerable to early warden aggression and fiend openers are really slow.I prefer a Ted Fiends opener even if it can be crushed by NE because Fast Fiends is too slow for my tastes
>>2184176What is Ted fiends?I just do the retards first CL opener because easy.
>>2184178Ted fiends is: Altar > Zig > Crypt > Shop > Zig, CL as soon as Altar finishes, beetles first point, and you go creeping with a Rod of Necromancy and your beetles. It's fast, lets your ghouls gather lumber to T2 if undisturbed at a good pace, but NE can cripple your early aggression with a single well placed wisp detonate so if you use this against NE you have to be defensive and focus on creeping to CL 3, but this is Warcraft 3 so do whatever you want with beetles/skele summons. Just don't forget to Tech and drop a GY before or as your next building after teching.Fast Fiends is Crypt > Graveyard > Altar > Zig > Shop > Zig. It will get you "almost" 2 fiends to creep with as your delayed hero comes out. This is ok for noobs that hate dealing with how weak ghouls are, but ghouls are strong for defense and I like the first build order more.The bread and butter was (is?) Crypt > Altar openings, but since the ghoul change and Dark Ranger domination right now things are a little different.
>>2184233Ah, I was using this https://warcraft-gym.com/cryptlord-fast-fiends-with-fast-tech/ type garbage.Also why does WC3 use supply instead of timings?
>>2184311Which I think is the second one.That said Im not awful at ghoul micro.
>>2184311>Also why does WC3 use supply instead of timings?brood war is the same wayyou're expected to do a series of actions in the correct order, the precise timings may change with map layouts and shiet, especially when you're supposed to creep specific camps in wc3
>>2184311What do you mean regarding supply vs. timings? War3 uses both. A timing attack could be something as simple as syncing up your attack an upgrade or when units start coming out, and supply is factored into weighing your options with upkeep.I personally feel the guide Grubby shows here to be the best balance:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymhbNZfLMi8It's trickier for noobs because ghouls are so weak and fragile but their DPS is good as is their speed and upgradeability.
>>2184389Oh. I've only seen the SC ones which are turbo autismo about the time.>>2184394SC2, and I assumed SC1, use specific clock times.
>>2184399Not a whole lot in Warcraft 3 is so set in stone to the point where the clock matters after 7-9 minutes. It's a good guideline to follow in really passive games with low information, but else you're relying on your own planning, vision, and reaction to what you see when you scout.
>>2177203it's like saying tricycle is better because harley davidson is bloated
It sometimes does feel like I'm taking crazy pills considering how looked over WC3 is in the multiplayer scene, even over slop like SC2.It really is the perfect, more accessible RTS.
>>2186615>More accessible>Considerably more complex to get into the floor than anything else
How do I counter mass raiders as UD?
>>2186638I disagree. Once you understand a hero comes out of an altar and killing creeps is good it's off to the races.
>>2186772Naga second along with fiends and ghouls cleans them up, alternatively master necros + anything you want works well too
>>2186783How does Naga help them clean up? Just unga AOE?I'm 3 matches in my placement matches and lost all 3 :')
>>2186774Compare that to>Just make infinite guys blob and a->click vaguely towards the enemy base
>>2186789>I'm 3 matches in my placement matches and lost all 3 :')It will get better, brother. Within 20 games you will get your first win. Within 40 you will take your first steps forward. Within 80 games you will know how to win. Within 100 games you would be able to defeat your past self effortlessly.Naga helps with picks and hit and runs. It counters Raider's mobility, their biggest strength. With raiders you'll generally want to slow them down somehow. You can even go air against Raiders, just don't directly engage them and keep them chasing after you while you do other things to get stronger.>>2186799No, I'm really done with this myth. In a world where League of Legends exists, with it's Yu-Gi-Oh sized ability descriptions, with it's wacky esoteric zoning, creeping, and creep lane meta, someone can actually sit down and understand that a hero comes from an altar, and heroes are important.I played SC2 for years before I saw the light and played WC3 instead. If people knew WC3 was alive more people would give it a shot.
>>2174399elements TD 5.0>solo run>all random>hardest difficulty>zero exploits/glitches>7 hour of playtime>50k ronald killsAWorldRecordBeat me
>>2186815>It counters Raider's mobilityFrozen arrow is that strong?>30/50/70% slow, cannot be dispelled Jesus christ, dota did frozen arrow dirty as shit lmao.Also, WC3 is much more complex than either of those anon, you just don't see reason because you are used to RTSes and likely have played a ton of WC3. Dota 2 is only more complex than WC3 because it has been non-stop evolving in complexity creep for years (and you have to deal with constant verbal harassment from 4 people) but the floor to get into any of those games is much, much lower than the floor for WC3 because they are group games.Also YGO is a very flow-chart-y game with incredibly high RNG, you can win tournaments with just knowing one deck with one strategy. This applies to every card game, even the more skill/meta demanding and complex ones can still be won off pure "dice say I won :)" which makes them more welcoming to new players and I say that as someone who routinely top 8s tourneys.
>>2186834I'm just seething that I wasted so much time and was frustrated over the deathballing and rampant all-inning on SC2. WC3 is a game I feel is harder to "understand" but easier to engage in and play. When I was learning to play, low level games were actually really fun and I couldn't get enough. It felt like a proper war game at a scope that is comfy.
>>2186871My experience so far is that WC3 is beyond complex and 99% of the games you do as an RTS noob (I've played the campaign and other PvE rts before, but never more than like 3 matches of pvp) which makes it incredibly demoralizing to get into, specially because it is hard to understand wtf you did wrong (also the fact replays don't auto download is bullshit).I'd say WC3 is more mechanically (ie, armor types, counters, etc...) complex than SC1/2 but requires less mechanical skill to get off the ground.Note that WC3 being complex isn't bad on itself and there is no real way to remove that complexity, even small "QoL" complexity removal stuff wouldn't affect much (ie control groups being unlimited would make undead micro a bit easier and peons starting on auto mine like in SC2 wouldn't change much since at most you lose 10g or so). Making the game more complex on mechanics also means the time to kill can be higher allowing for skill expression that isn't just micro management. TL;DR: Game good but game also hard.
>>2186931>(also the fact replays don't auto download is bullshit)You can set replays to automatically download at the end of a match and view them right after you leave said match. The game would be unplayable without instant replays. Check your options.It's crazy that you're saying that increasing the control group sizes wouldn't affect much. Worker auto-mining is whatever, but removing or increasing control group sizes would be a bad move at best and at worst devolve low level games into T1 unit spamming. Considering you can fit an army's worth of Frost Worm's into a single control group already, increasing control group sizes is unecessary, and you'll have plenty of room in your control groups right now if you divide your gropus using common sense, usually needing no more than 2 or 3 over the course of an entire game.>Making the game more complex on mechanics also means the time to kill can be higher allowing for skill expression that isn't just micro management.Unit TTK taking as long as it does one of the things that makes WC3 good, since it lets fights last longer than blink-or-you'll-miss-it moments that you see in SC2. WC3 is micro rich, yes, but macro is just as important but not all-encompassing as it is in other games and that's a good thing.
>>2176905No. You mean durka durr.Fagscord is for lg-alphagetteos
>>2186946Why the FUCK isn't this on by default? I'd complain that blizzard should also save the replays and let you download them at a later date but I guess that would take a ton of space.It wouldn't increase much in the sense it wouldn't nuke an entire part of the game, like starting with 12 workers does to SC2 (there is no turbo early game where you just make workers or split them correctly). At most, as you said, would make spamming 50 footmen easier, but the game already has a much stronger cap to how many units you can field by just making them food expensive (A full control group of them is already a wooping 24 food, 5 for hero, and 10 for workers that is already 39 food out of 100) and I do agree that is likely a bad thing, the upside of the WC3 floor being so stupid high is that it also reduces the skill gap between mid level players and high level players.There are mods (mostly for 1.36 and similar) that allow you to control infinite amount of units, you can try it if you don't believe me, it mostly reduces APM demands for moving huge blobs (those aren't very common outside of stuff like mass necro) and in turn reduces the skill expression of being able to micro big blobs proper. Which again is sort of the appeal for UD. Also imagine reducing the micro floor for undead spam bullshit and suddenly they catch like, 6 nerfs because happy is dumpstering everyone.
>>2186615WC3 is not accessible at all as an RTS. You are fucking retarded.
>>2187041I also want to note that I don't think making control groups would make the game more accessible for turbo newbs like me, the point I want to get across is that I don't see a way to make WC3 accessible without also making it NOT WC3.
Where do I play custom games without using Reforged or Bnet?
>>2187041I still generally disagree with changes like that, since we're seeing tiny changes in balance cause large ripple effects. I still detest the ghoul and huntress nerfs.>>2187043No. It is an accessible RTS. LoL and Dota 2, two of the most popular PC games around, are much more complext than War3 ever has been. In what planet is "build army, kill your enemy" more complicated than whatever bullshit you have to deal with in a MOBA?
>>2187103Use the legacy client and get on GameRanger. Good luck trying to play decent games though, old versions are teeming with cheaters and Russian dregs.
>>2187041>I'd complain that blizzard should also save the replays and let you download them at a later date but I guess that would take a ton of space.W3Champions logs all games and lets you download replays from the website. Just look up your name or the name of your opponent and you'll find them available to download through match history. Pic related.
>>2187107Every planet, because you're ignoring the endless tide of minutae. It is so much easier to play DotA at a shitter level than it is WC3.
>>2187121>It is so much easier to play DotA at a shitter level than it is WC3.Completely untrue. Low level games of WC3 especially on W3Champions feel as epic as they are funny to watch.You should consider playing it sometime, it's quality fun.
>>2187115I need to install WC3C I thought it didn't work on macos lmao (I'm using my work laptop to play :^)).
>>2187123I'm and it is much harder than herald dota 2 games m8 since you are dependant on yourself.
>>2187143If it's not available now, it will be soon, as per W3C communication. :)
>>2187145A lot of the minutia does not matter when you're playing games appropriate for your skill level. You will learn things as you play and look to improve."Easier to win" doesn't mean "more accessible" to me. Easier to win is just easier to win. The minutae especially in DotA 2 is often nonsensical but required, like stacking camps or really the footies required in lane creeping in general.Relying on yourself is a good thing and just because someone has to stand on their own doesn't mean the game innately itself is not accessible. And hell, team games exist and those games are even more accessible because you can get effortlessly carried in them all the time.Warcraft 3 PvP is a good game everyone should try playing in 2025 and beyond.
>>2187150You don't understand at all.
>>2187146It is already on, haven't tested it tho.
>>2187151It's the other way around.Play Warcraft III.
>>2187490I have. You're retarded and don't understand why WC3 melee isn't approachable because you're coming at it from fucking Starcraft 2 an even LESS approachable game.
>>2187514Hey now, SC2 is totally approachable.Just do a tablet of adderall before every game.
as an rts noob, i really appreciate the slow TTK in this game, every battle feels like a tug of war and units are not as disposable as other games so you have to figure out how to keep them survive even in the midst of a brawl, at least that's how i feel playing the campaign and the CPU, idk how much of this applies to PvP
>>2187648The AI is a literal non-threat and cannot micro for shit.The TTK in pvp is really low (compared to pve) because players aren't actually forced to fist fight your grunts to slap your head hunters. And they also creep, the AI literally doesn't know how to creep so they just blob up in their base and go out every 5 or so minutes to do one camp.Player build orders are also a magnitude better than the AI, I can mollywoop the insane AI with ease but I get my head crushed in any pvp game.
>>2187649interesting, i guess i have to hop on to PvP at least onceis the AMAI bots good practice to prep myself for PvP?
>>2187651Yes, but 99% of prep is mental, you will lose. A lot. I'd say you should be able to execute a build order and get creeping/aggressive which the bots are almost okay for (spoiler, that's how you beat them because they are passive).WC3 is a really hard RTS to get started with a super high skill floor so don't get demoralized when you lose 70%+ of your games. Which you will because the influx of new players is incredibly low.That said, once you are past the skill floor the game isn't as demanding as SC1/2/AoE2, etc... in the mechanical skill department at least, and you can get into learning more advanced bullshit like surrounds via move command spam, body blocking, unit counters, timings, etc...That said, it is fun and less rigid than other RTSes which is what makes it harder/more fun than other games for a slightly more casual audience.
>>2187658>Which you will because the influx of new players is incredibly lowreally? i thought the renewed interest in WoW and the fixed Reforged version kinda drew more people in, it did for me
>>2187662Oh no, it isn't zero, Grubby's night media (I assume) push also made it get a resurgence.But it isn't anywhere near enough to ensure all turbo mega noobsters get matched against equally skilled turbo shitters.I'm playing on B.net which is extra scuffed but I've only been matched with someone with a level (ie played games) beneath 60 less than 2 times in 20 or so matches.People say WC3 champs is better on this but I have my doubts.
>>2187662The amount of new players has tapered off since the Grubby Invitationals, but this year has seen a good amount of new activity because of it. The game was in an absolute deathknell up until then, and the patches have finally caught up to lead to a much more stable experience.>>2187648It does apply when you're playing against someone your own level. You will win some and lose some, but when you have two armies clash and it's a test of who's the best tactician it's just a blast.>>2187651The best thing to do when getting into PvP is like >>2187658 said and understand you will lose until you get a grasp of a few things. How fast you will start winning depends completely on asking, "What did my opponent do that I didn't, and how can I change that next time?" You don't need to think about your build order past the opening few minutes, as you'll want to focus on the the fundamentals of not getting yourself supply blocked and to creep in a timely manner. It will be hard at first to "remember" to creep because the game rewards aggression. Check out W3Champion's FloTV feature and observe some games to see how others play and you can take a few notes while you're at it.>>2187514You really don't know what you're talking about. The average person is dumb as hell but even they could have fun in the low leagues.
>bro low level leagues are fine bro, it isn't like you'll go up against people with 1000+ games experience over on you!
>>2187662>and the fixed Reforged version kinda drew more people in,Reforged itself permanently pushed some people away.At some point there's no fixing for some people.Like there's no wow expansion that can fix the game for me, they'd have to revert every expansion, declare them non-canon, and then also manage to make one that is good itself.
>>2187832I've beaten people with over 3000 games when I had like, 40 played games.It's the same concept where people play games in certain leagues for years, silver league League and Valorant players, etc. This mentality is so fragile, weak, and worst of all robs someone a chance to have fun with a good PvP game like War3.
>>2187835>Reforged itself permanently pushed some people away.>At some point there's no fixing for some people.This is sadly true. I only found out about War3 in late 2023 and didn't seriously play it till 2024. I played War3 when I was younger but I didn't touch the PvP because I always thought it would be strange or confusing but found it more fun to play than SC2. After reading just how bad the launch was at 2020 I'm under the assumption that there's a large amount of people, especially diehard fans, that won't come back to it on principle. Reforged was the Shadowlands of Warcraft 3, causing damage that faith in the brand has become irreperable and it makes me seethe how corporate greed stops people from enjoying such a good game.
>>2187837You come from SC2 you cretin.
>>2187863Never said I was any good at SC2. :)
>Finally try melee>Lose horribly and felt like there was nothing I could do>Straight up feels as if opponent is using cheats at all times, has more units, more gold, more levels no matter what I doFun :))))
>>2188104>play game for first time and lose>blame the gamethis is bait
>>2187793I do know what I'm talking about because I know why the game started dying in the first place and shifted towards custom games as the default, you fucking dumbass.
>>2188140>Play 20+ games>it is the same on every game except when I do 2v2 and my friend carries me>Anon blames me Damn I wonder why melee fucking died.
>>2188509The game shifted pretty much immediately to Custom Games from the start because most custom games were easy mini games that required next to no APM. And that's fine, people like easier games. More people gravitate toward easier games than they do more difficult ones, explaining why Souls games are really niche and unpopular.But even while this was happening, SC2 still managed to get a strong foothold before League and HoN broke the first MOBA ground post All-Stars.Just because Custom Games exist doesn't mean that Warcraft III is inacessible -- SC2 is a much more intense, difficult, and unfun game yet it has more player than it even today. This isn't because Warcraft III is some game that only geniuses can play, it's because everyone thinks it's dead and Reforged's launch is the last time it ever peeked it's head out to the mainstream.Warcraft III being overshadowed by Custom Games doesn't make it difficult to play and people aren't aware of that today.You're welcome for the education, faggot.>>2188553If you just hop on and press buttons and don't even attempt to learn how things work or why things happen this will happen. Complete shitters usually start winning after 8-12 games if they give a shit enough to actually play the game and learn the basics.It isn't the game, it's you. And honestly, if you're not playing a game to learn it that's fine. There are other games you can play that ask nothing of you and that's valid.But you losing more than 20 in a row isn't the game's fault, it's yours.
>>2188632>It's your fault game is peeerfect!!! and hecking easy!!!Way to miss the point, retard. The point is that it matters not how much I "train" because the skill floor is so above my own current skill that I learn NOTHING from any game I play because I do the noob build by grubby with CL? Get it out with rod and shit by minute 2:45 I'm teching up and clearing camps asap.Doesn't matter, opp shows up level 2-3 heros min 3 or has 7+ raiders by minute 6 and demolishes my base in <2 minutes.Coming here and being told "ur bad xD gme perfet" just makes this even worse, my will to play has gone from low to absolute fucking zero because I HAVE NO FUCKING WAY OF KNOWING WHAT I DID WRONG, every match up feels like an impossible fight with an opponent that is multiple magnitudes above my own skill level.Seriously dude, your constant gaslighting has made me drop the game, gg. Game easy bro just have SC2 experience bro!
>>2188632You don't understand and you never will understand because you are assuming anything easier than SC2 is easy to get into.
>>2188662This to me sounds like you're getting smurfed, which sucks and there's little you can do against it but also without seeing a replay I can't see where your fundamentals are at.At worst, you're edge scrolling all over the map and are having your gold float as soon as something happens and you get mentally tied up. That's normal, that happens to everyone. I would try not playing CL and play DK/Lich and focus on death coiling your own units instead of offensively coiling unless you know you'll get value out of it.CL is really strong right now but beetles + skeles for a new player is overwhelming. The bread & butter build of Crypt > Altar > Zig > Shop > Zig > Tech is flexible but you'll have to micro with ghouls which are really finnicky and not noob friendly, but gives you the most options and creative freedom.It is not likely that all 20 games were one-sided hopeless stomps, but maybe 7 or 8 of them were smurf'd games. Hard to tell without replays but I think you're expecting way too much out of yourself way too quickly and some basic coaching could be transformative in just one session. Consider joining the W3Gym Discord, they'll set you straight if you ask questions and not allude that the game's at fault for you losing as a newer player.>>2188668RTS is are more difficult genre to get into than others, but Warcraft 3 is one of the best to get into because it has heroes as a good focal point and a de-emphasis on macro. You can literally have one production building 8-10 minutes in a game and have it not be strange or uncommon at all.
>>2188792No, it's not, because Warcraft 3 still has an emphasis on grinding the fuck out of the basics before you get to play and a huge amount of memorization involved because the game doesn't teach you the fundamentals. WC3 is particularly shit about this compared to most RTS, it only looks good compared to Starcraft which is the literal worst game in the entire genre on that front.
>>2188792Frankly, if a game doesn't teach you how to play it worth a damn, doesn't even start explaining the concepts you need to play it, it is at fault.
>>2187835>>2187846I actually play WoW and I'd say WoW is beginning to enter another golden age. Now, the game may have evolved to be a game that most of you does not enjoy anymore but after Dragonflight, the reception and audience retention has been exceptional. Everyday, you feel like there's a new batch of people joining and it's been like that for 2+ years now.
>>2188662valid crash out
>>2188792Make a new bnet account right fucking now and queue up.You'll go up against people with well over 1000 games on your first matches. He isn't getting smurfed he is just getting the new player experience you spastic.
unironically, what's wrong with queueing up a bunch and lose a bunch? it's very much expected and any game that has a ranked system worth its salt will rely on this fact to matchmake you better.when you're new to the game, you're not fighting the opponent, you're fighting the game system itself, take every small win, like successfully following a build order, as a victory and not hyper-focus on losing or winning the actual matchmost of the whiners here will never last a day in tekken, or any other fighting game
>>2189038It's not a fun experience for 90% of people and is why both fighting games and RTS keep declining in playerbase. Fighting games are shit by the way.
>>2187667>WC3 champsThe main issue with WC3 champs is the seasonal ladder mechanic that forces top world melee players to play with absolute newbies once in a while. Happy was banned from W3C for surrendering at those calibration games on purpose, probably because he didn't want to lose time stomping noobs.
>>2189038You lose without knowing what you did wrong, you are meant to be matched against similar skilled players but if you are new there are no other newbies.You get stomped again and again and then leave because losing without knowing why is beyond unfun.You just don't get it because you are a SC2 aspie who comes with tears of practice.
How hard would it be to tweak the campaign AI to make an actual ladder/melee tutorial campaign?
I dont know what are you all fags about, i will just play and enjoy custom maps.
>>2189077We are talking about why people play custom games :^}
>>2189046fighting games are bigger than they have ever been IJBOL>>2189054i think you took me for the wrong person, also replays are a thing, online resources are a thing, you can quickly figure out what you did wrong in both rts and fightans
>>2189085Fighting games have never been as big as they were during SF2.
>>2189092blud, have you heard about SF6? T8 is also still the steady runner up despite its shortcoming, more people are interested in competitive fighters than ever, whatever the numbers you pull for SF2, which there are many sources, are mostly people put in a few coins to fuck around and never play again--that is precisely equivalent to people who spend all their time in custom games in wc3 without contributing anything to the melee scene
>>2189038There is a game I used to play ranked in where I had an 80% win rate within my first 50 matches. Hell, I would have had a 100% because all 10 losses/ties were due to my shit internet at the time. This is because:I had practice from quick match mode that was the same thingIt actually matched me with low ranked players nearish my skill level instead of smurfsThe game actually prepared you to play it worth a damn on the way to rankedIt was extremely intuitive to figure out what you did wrong even with a casual glance at a replay (except when a Brazilian was playing because their dogshit ping is right below the point where it actually harms them and instead breaks correlation between where they were visually and where they actually were in-game and that didn't show in replays, it would just make you look like a retard swinging at air)IT ACTUALLY TAUGHT YOU FUNDAMENTALS WHICH WERE INTUITIVE TO LEARN.Was it an RTS or fighting game? No. Was it a lot more casual? Sure. Did I stop playing ranked? Yep, one of the meme modes with double the players was way more fun and had much more room for skill expression with who I liked to play so I switched almost full time to that. But the point is that I didn't have to go outside of the game to learn it.
>>2189104>But the point is that I didn't have to go outside of the game to learn it.comp multiplayer games are not for you then
>>2189105There is nothing about competitive multiplayer that implies you're supposed to grind out losses 100 times before you get to play.
>>2189113self-improvement, you're too obsessed with the concept of losing you don't see the learning opportunities that those losses grant you
>Kpop pretty Asian lady spammerNah /scv/ found this place.GG.
>bro it's hecking self improvement!>You are supposed to lose 100+ games >Super approachable btw super easy game you should be good lol >WHY NOBODY PLAY GAME?!It takes less effort and it is more entertaining to learn a real world skill like wood working than it is to get past the skill floor of WC3.Screaming at new players and treating them like shit while spamming your goon material just turns them further away.
>>2189148Literally not a fucking argument. Very very few people enjoy that shit. Most enjoy honing a skill they’ve already learned the basics of, NOT struggling to develop it in the first place.
>>2189093SF2 sold 6.3m copies on the SNES alone, in one version. 15m for all combined. That’s in an incomparably smaller market with way less gamers.SF6 has sold 5m across all platforms in the modern market.You are a fucking moron.
>>2189113You're supposed to practice to get better. Practicing doesn't have to be grinding ranked for 100 losses, in fact most good rts players say you shouldn't do that, but it can be if that's how you want to do it. I prefer to look up information and practice vs AI until I have a plan I like and I know hotkeys. Then I play team games to get some idea of how I am doing relative to other players. After that I might go back to AI games to figure things out but I usually play 1v1 after that until I feel like I've reached my peak.
>>2189029No. I've done exactly that twice and when you sink to the bottom it's exclusively dogshit players and smurfs. Again, I've met players with 3k+ games played and they got rolled by me, a sub 50 games played player who peaked at fucking SILVER, yes SILVER at SC2. The only things I carried over from SC2 before I started playing was primarily using the minimap and double-tapping hotkeys to move my camera. And even that I got from a fucking Day9 video from like 10 years ago.>>2189104Reading between the lines, no wonder you're crashing out when faced with even the lightest breeze of needing to self improve. "Game is good because I won almost all of my 50 games," is so pathetic that you've outed yourself as the rot that caused the gaming industry to churn out pandering shit. You're even wrong about the game not teaching you the basic fundamentals, the fucking CAMPAIGN does that shit. Vs. AI does that shit. You are not a competitive player, you fall apart the second a game expects anything of you, and I feel sorry for you.Like >>2189148 said, you are completely obsessed and fearful of failure and it has nothing to do with Warcraft III.>>2189165>It takes less effort and it is more entertaining to learn a real world skill like wood working than it is to get past the skill floor of WC3.Coped statement, the game is not as hard as learning any trade whatsoever>>2189236You likely didn't even know the basics and when prompted to self-reflect even the smallest amount you completely chimped out and blamed the game
how would a phalanx work in wc3 script wise? there's no unit with a melee range attack.
>>2189308Neither the campaign nor AI teach you the fundamentals to play against other people.
>>2189332wc3 is kinda dogshit for long term games.no gold once it runs out, it's win or die.
>>2189308I have no problem playing games that expect me to improve. I don’t even mind losing, especially not when new. I have every problem with a game expecting me to practice beyond the campaign and a couple skirmishes, expecting me to go run to guides and practice execution, having the majority of the important skills be totally disconnected from what I was learning up to that point if not at odds with it, and all of this just to START. That is not fucking normal.
>>2189408You're doing something critically wrong, that's the long and short of it.No way you can do a CL opener with rod and then claim to lose to 20 smurfs. You've dodged this endlessly, but it is likely you completely stop macro'ing, you completely stop micro'ing, or something along those lines.And that's not Warcraft 3's fault.
>>2189378Games on average last like 15 minutes but it is funny to see 45 minute no-base rushes
>>2189412That’s the other guy, not me. I played wc3 in like 2005 when there were way more shitters around.
>>2189419Ah ok.There are no games where you can be taught how to effectively play against other players solely from in-game resources.Communities and guides are the foundation of any competitive multiplayer game.
>>2189422False.
>>2189424Name one competitive game where guides aren't used and people don't collaborate to improve.
>>2174399The youtube newfag influx has been disastrous for the community.Thoughts?
>>2189452Unreal Tournament 99. Guides don't matter because there's no unintuitive tech to the game, it's pure fundamentals that it already taught you and map knowledge. The bots on higher difficulties were better than over half of the playerbase and that's being generous to the players so playing campaign prepared you to play multiplayer just fine. It wasn't like Quake where there was an entirely different skillset to learn in movement, it was the exact same thing you were already doing but you needed to do it better.Shit I didn't even use guides for Enemy Territory or Movie Battles II which are much more complicated games that had them, I learned by pure brute force playing and spectating better players when dead for 400 hours.
>>2189469Diagree greatly. New players is good for the game.
>>2189476>lists 2 non-competitive games and a mod, all of which are casual shootersI accept your concession.
>>2189488None of those games are non-competitive. You are on crack.
>>2189498Yeah watching some UT99 e-sports it's actually shocking how people managed to get this good without practicing with other players or dicussing movement mechanics
>>2189509What's there to discuss? You had WASD movement, double tap to dodge, a jump, and what weapons and items like antigrav boots did. It's not Quake. Talking about map routing and learning exact item timings is about as helpful as it got, both of which are skills you should have had a decent understanding of by the time you beat Xan. You got better by playing against other people, not by theorycrafting and practicing that. Why that mystifies you isn't my problem.
>>2189477>Diagree greatly. New players is good for the game.This. that guy is a huge faggot, and reminds me of those "elitits" clique communities that some maps had, past time, because all those communities tend to have a short life because of faggots like him.
>>2189477And then you end up with retarded wow retcons, "skintone diversity" & plotlines.Hopefully we never see WC4, which retards like gbay99 & grubby want.
>>2189524Nothing mystifying about "building gives supply" and "build units, kill enemy" either but you're here listing shooters on /vst/ of all boardsEnjoy your shooters, but this is a Warcraft 3 thread and you're shitting it up :)
>>2189534>thisnot even trying to hide it huh
>>2189535>more people playing WC3 in 2025 means bad wow plotlinesWhat the fuck LOL
>>2189550what do you not get, reddit nigga?
>>2189579I don't go to reddit, you stupid faggot.People playing War3 in 2025 doesn't lead to "dei in wow" because War3 players aren't the type to play something as brain dead as WoW in any of it's forms.
>>2189544I'm not the dumbass insisting the game is accessible when its lack of accessibility turned people to other games, so no, I don't think I'm the one shitting the thread up.
>>2189549>not even trying to hide it huhhide what? you cannot argue in good faith that a new influx of players is somehow bad for this game in particular.
>>2189634>custom games existing is proof warcraft 3 is inaccessible this is like saying most games are inaccessible because candy crush existswarcraft 3 being impossible to get to is a myth that only stands because people aren't aware it's active
>>2189634upon launch war3 was considered one of the most accessible RTS available, Blizzard intentionally designed that way and why it leaned into RPG mechanics. and not pass production like other RTS's were trending toward
>>2189535WC4 will never happen because there is no way to improve WC3 mechanically.Same reason why SC3 will never happen.
>>2189681WC4 shouldn't happen because current Blizzard would fuck it up
>>2189687Not the point of the question anon.Design, mechanically, a WC4. As a thought exercise, what changes can be made that aren't possible in WC3 Ladder?
>10k games daily on wc3 champs after twitch shilling
>>2189778Kind of hard to say, the only improvements that could be made to WC3 would require a scalpel, not a mallat. Random thoughts on what a good WC4 would look like:>Upkeep remains, as does the 12 unit control group limit. Macro'ing production buildings will now work SC2-style in that two identical production buildings will not make two ghouls on one button press, but one ghoul per button press enabling you to quickly macro say, a ghoul and a gargoyle while on the same control group>New units are added or replace existing units to create design space, but are limited to maybe 1 or 2 new units per faction>UI changes to make the game easier to read during big fights, current over-emphasis on the color green can be messy>New racial and tavern heroes>New creep types, including patrolling creepsIt's really hard to say on what WC4 should look like because WC3 is very unique and feels "designed on paper" vs. designed by previous player feedback. I would settle for a slow, smaller scale SC2 with a coherent story.
>>2189936I would straght up use SC2 engine, which is superior in every way.
>>2189942As much as I hate SC2, I agree. SC2's engine is smooth as butter and the UI and control was razor sharp, even better than WC3 IMO. If the engine was taken and made something good and shedded that "shiny metal" look everything has in it's customs I'd play it.
>Just want to play based custom games>don't want to spend $30 on refart>GameRanger is gonna be mostly DOTA trashIts so fucking over.
>>2190005Game is like 15euros during sale.So wait for one Winter sale is like in a month or so.
>>2190005attach your roc key and you won't need to pay for it
>>2189942SC2 engine would absolute require a mallet to melee units. SPECIALLY for surround stuff.But as said, all your examples could be made on the actual WC3 ladder right now. Like image next ladder season they add/remove some heros or units like they do in SC2 ladder.
>>2190112I think that's not too much of an SC2 engine thing, because Heroes of the Storm had unit collisioin and it was actually quite good. If a WC4 happened and it used the SC2 engine, so long as the design still contains square hitboxes and proper sizes it woould definitely retain the NSWE surround-approach and might even feel better than how WC3 does it.
>>2189661It's about the source of the new players, anon.You don't want twitch retards coming in.Yes, really. I know you probably don't care about the campaign but that's how wow got black blood elves, kek.
>>2190249>I know you probably don't care about the campaign but that's how wow got black blood elves, kek.I really don't mind, since i dont play reforged. Nigger elves don't exist to me. So as long as wokezzard moderators don't start moderating the game lobbies again, i really dont care. I like my racist custom maps.
>>2178769Met him IRL in 2015 at an event in the US. He didn't have to stop and talk when I waved at him, but he did. Legit respect him for that.
>>2190249Blue haired freaks aren’t going to be playing war3. Twitch viewership and new blood into the game is a good thing.
>>2189248i literally addressed your point, it seems like you're an ignorant pig-headed person that doesn'f pay attention to anythingno wonder you cannot even pick up a multiplayer game without incessant whining, and attempted to compare it to taking up a trade IJBOL
>>2190140SC2 engine has much better pathing, wc3 pathing isn't as bad as SCBW but trust me on this one melee units would be whack.It also still works on square logic, iirc some people have ported some wc campaigns to it
>>2182184>He can be a bit passive aggressive, but no dealbreaker for meWhat I like about him is that he actually enjoys being a griefing troll who pisses off others and he's very unapologetic about being an asshole and trying to get reactions out of people. He reminds me of myself!
>/scv/ retard still mad >Still hasn't posted a single replay of his Seeing a pattern here....
I really want to get into WC3 multiplayer but I wont give blizzard any money after they left SC2 in the dust and ruined Hearthstone. I simply can't bring myself to give them even a penny
>>2190917what's your obsession with starcraft?
>>2191048What's yours with posting your plastic women goon material instead of your games?
>>2191078plastic?
>>2191090BUILT
>>2190727>>2191048>>2191090 chad>>2190917>>2191078fag
>>2190836him responding to bm'ers is actually hilarious.6k salary is one of the best memes that came from him tilting a tower rusher that failed LOL
>>2191141He is still a teen deep down. That's why he looks so oddly young too, keep your petty hatred kings.
Is everyone playing on the Reforged patch these days or some old version like 1.29? I haven't played in a while but I noticed I have three installs on my PC, 1.27b, 1.29 and then the latest patch through Bnet, though I get some DirectX error message when trying to launch the old versions, but they can still be played if you open it through the map editor, no idea what's up with that.
>>2191369Most people play on the latest 2.0 version and most map makers moves there too.Mostly on b.net or wc3 champs
>>2191425Does Reforged still struggle with custom campaigns? I want to try my hand at something like the Founding of Durotar but I've heard that custom campaigns still don't work very well (if at all) on newer patches
>>2191429They work well now and have for a bit.
>>2191433Got it, thanks!
>>2191369Most of the playerbase plays on the Reforged client, both for Melee and customs. >>2191429I'm able to play custom campaigns fine on current Reforged client, even random ones from EpicWar
>>2178769he is a delusional retard see https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YwM9jPSlGB8
>>2191828How is he wrong in anything he said?
>>2191878warcraft 3 is accessible as shit retard, didn't you quit already?
>>2192315>warcraft 3 is accessible as shit retard, didn't you quit already?He compared Dota 2 to Warcraft 3, you dipshit nigger. And Dota 2 is way easier than w3. Take your pills and relax your tits, oligophrenic envious piece of shit faggot nigger.
>>2191828He isn't wrong on any level.I feel Warcraft 3 is a simpler game by design and deep to play. Dota 2 is a complicated game by design and the depth is a result of it's incongruent and rule-heavy design. If two noobs play Warcraft 3 they'll clobber each other and have a good time.If 10 noobs play Dota 2 together each side will turn on the noob that dies early while their own play is dogshit at the same time.War3 is slept on because of RTS controls but like any skill it can be learned and enjoyed if you're not a massive faggot that plays a handful of games, cries, blames the game, and dies on the hill while the thread laughs at him.
>>2192372>Dota 2 is way easier than w3t. turk with russian genes who feeds all the time every game forever
>>2191828I don't agree but i can see why he'd think that.The genius of warcraft 3 is that it simplifies mechanics when it comes to economy, but retains the complexity of decision making when it comes to things like expansions and teching up.
>>2192861Dota 2 is mechanically easier than w3 and it shouldn't even be a question. Dota 2 is only harder as a whole because there is more competition, so to be a top performant, you have to best a way higher number of people. Also, Dota 2 is a team game, but again, that is not a factor you have to keep in mind, because (you) as a player cannot control that.
>>2193023>Dota 2 is only harder as a whole because there is more competition, so to be a top performant, you have to best a way higher number of peopleyou are so insanely fucking stupid I'm not even going to bother explaining
>>2193032>you are so insanely fucking stupid I'm not even going to bother explainingYou concede, i accept, faggot.
>>2192372>oligophrenicbro you ate a thessaures or someshit?
It's been a solid decade since i played wc3, and i really got the urge to play some of the RPG custom maps, but checking hive it seems like most maps require you to have reforged. Is this true, everyone conceded and moved to reforged or what's the most common version to play custom maps on these days? Do you still need to get the game from some undisclosed archive? I have wc3 keys on the battlenet account, but would feel exceptionally revolted if i had to even open moder blizzard's webpage.
>>2193461Considering all legal copies became Reforged overnight and how much of a paypig nation is the Blizzdrone fanbase, they all "moved on".
>>21934611.27b and 1.29 are popular patches for pre-reforged versions, IIRC you can still very easily get them from Hiveworkshop. Download the old non-battle.net installers then patch them and you should be good. Map compatibility will vary from map to map, but I'm guessing most big maps have moved on to Reforged by now.
mirin' these stats, /vst/?
>>2194184only if you update. I still have a 1.27 install.Fun fact, if you install the reforged version from battle net, it will find and nuke your old installation folder. Thankfully you can literally just copy the WC3 folder to a pendrive and it works out of the box without installing again
>>2174399
>>2197620>Only maxing strength>Not sending a hero out on a giant attack move waypoint queue with the vampiric axe so you can buy piles of all stats
>>2198664He's at 50 agi on the first map, you can't get any lifesteal there unfortunately but I had the three of them on patrol between a fountain of life and across a few spawns, I got like 15k and a few random tome while I was AFK doing other shit. The most annoying part is how long it takes for tomes to restock in the shop. I've long since moved on to act 2, busy farming the arena and wasting too much time on this campaign that's already really easy but for whatever reason I really enjoy replaying it every now and then.
>>2198671>you can't get any lifesteal there One of the items you get near the end of act one (name escapes me offhand) is something like +20 damage and 50% lifesteal. Basically makes the bearer unkillable in act 1. Obviously it's not needed once your stats get jacked enough to outregen the damage taken patrolling around the map to farm.
>>2199930Oh right, you do get Killmaim at act 2, I had a brain fart and thought the Echo Isles were part of act 2.
>>2200573You do get Killmaim in act 1*
God just give ghouls +1 damage back
>>2203653Kinda embarrassing to keep releasing game breaking patches now 20 years on StarCraft 1 avoided this fate narrowly
>>2203738dark swarm *needs* to be nerfed. Reduce 99% of ranged damage instead of 100%. It would make a world of difference
>>2204561StarCraft can be a serious esport because it doesn't change. A true meta and true strategies can be formed due to this. Wc3 is hokey and fake by comparison. Imagine chess grandmasters whining to a commission until they get white player's unfair advantage nerfed or make the pawn move one less step per game or something. That's nerfing ghoul damage. Its fundamentally unserious. It betrays confidence in your product.
>>2204642>StarCraft can be a serious esport because it doesn't change.This is not a good criteria. If the patch itself is unbalanced then being stuck on it is a bad thing.
>>2204659The game will be unbalanced at a fundamental level. You cannot escape this. Certain strategies will end up being stronger than others. The only thing a patch does is make some novelty, allow other strategies to be broken. Except it often ends up being a shallow strategy that dominates based on sheer math. No serious counter strategies can grow out of it due to the short span of time between patches. StarCraft is a good example, because anything unbalanced can be countered by good foresight and superior play.
>>2204709Dumbass argument.
>>2204709>The game will be unbalanced at a fundamental level. You cannot escape this. Certain strategies will end up being stronger than others.There are degrees to a game being unbalanced though. WC3 has four different races so if it was perfectly balanced then win rates for each faction (assuming equally skilled players) should average to 25%, but is a marked difference between Night Elf having 99% vs 28% win rate instead of 25%. Even if a meta formed around the fact that one faction is clearly better and you only saw NE vs NE I think most people would agree that this means the game is unbalanced and not in a healthy state, thus a balance patch is warranted.
>>2208176Yeah but that isn't true though is it? UD = bad, but happy dominated with UD, proving the meta, if anything, is not mature, and the skill level of players hasn't peaked yet
>>2208482That depends on if you think the game should be balanced around comp play and what the best players in the world are capable of doing vs what average players (the by far majority of the players) are capable of.
>>2204709Isnt SC2 absolutely dominated by Terran players at the highest level?
Explain why the ghoul nerf is bad without bringing up players who are better than you.
>>2208512Is there counterplay to nerfed strategies? If so, then the nerfs are unnecessary. Afaik, there's no one "I win" strat where barrier of entry is low. >>2208684Nerfing anything because of complaints cheapens the game.
>>2208638And StarCraft 2 receives plenty of patches. Its not a coincidence. MMORPG style balancing is unhealthy to any game. Pushing percentages around, one build will always be broken until next patch. It goes like this.
>>2208741Not if the counterplay has a lower success rate than the strategy or the counterplay is markedly more difficult to pull off than the strategy.
>>2208741>Brings up better playersMhm, mhm, I see. Not an argument.
>All this talk>Still no end screens from any matchI have a feeling you all just enjoy crying but don't play the game.
>>2208805I did not. Cope and seethe. Maybe whine a bit more on the forums you fucking degenerate.
>>2208827>I didn't bring up better players!>It was nerfed because players complained about it!Mhm, mhm I see. Post MMR.
>>2208843>better players Complainers are automatically better than non complainers in your book?
>>2209229>No MMRYou don't play this game :)
The ghoul nerfs (both) are bad because I'm bad and play undead.
I don't like the ghoul nerf because I am not a great player and I felt like I had an easier time using ghouls before the nerf. They are just not as fun when a Frenzy upgraded ghoul gets solo'd by 0/0 footmen
Are Taurens back to being a T3 unit?
>>2211579>>2211325Imagine basing the entire balance of your RTS game on a singular "pro" person. It's like if they nerfed terran in Brood War because of Flash, and then terran would be unplayable for everyone else. What the fuck were they thinking?
>>2214539I wouldn't go as far to say "unplayable," but as a subpar player I could take every advantage I can get when trying to win a match
>>2214345Just play the game yourself and find out, faggot
>>2211325>>2211579Sorry Chudeads, MMR is for Night Elves :)
>>2174399>Night Elves are imba, while Undead sucksHow did Blizzard fumble so hard at balancing this game compared to StarCraft?
>>2220964Not sure if you're being ignorant or retarded but Starcraft fucking WISHES to be as balanced as WC3 is.
