>play>press buttons faster than the enemy>winWhy is this considered strategy and allowed on this board? This shit is basically just Osu but without the music and in pvp mode.
this goes for all the games in the genre
>>2245907So what you're saying is we should combine rhythm and RTS?
>>2245907This nigga plays rts on a console
>>2245907>Why is this considered strategyIt's not, but this board is very liberal when it comes to strategy since it allows visual novellas (/gsg/ games)
>>2245907>unc has early onset arthritis Vidya aren't for you anymore, old man.Try books or something.
>>2245907It's *real time* startegy.So timing matter.It's in the name.Play HoMM if you need something turn-based.
>>2245973So whwre is the *strategy*?
>>2245982Without strategy you'd be clicking blindly with little hope of achieving results - like a monkey with a typewriter. Obviously you need to have a battle plan if you want to get anything done.
>>2245982Is about which orders you give and when.You know, just like IRL strategy.
>>2245907>press buttons faster than the enemythis is only half the battlethe other half is pressing the correct buttons
>>2245929Populous 3 is a thing
>>2246008... but there is no rhythm game stuff in Populous 3?Unless that was the joke about the OST being mostly cool unga bunga music.
>>2246011The OST is reactive (one of the "ground-breaking" features of the game, and actually kinda cool for AD 1998), so the more you click, the more intense the drum section gets.This is further coupled with changing the drum section in combat and changing it rhythm to your reactions.A neat little feature, but it's there.I kind of miss times when game dev cycle was half-in-half serious features and based gameplay loop combined with goofing around and making tiny easter eggs
>>2246005>>2245997
>>2246059Concession accepted.
>>2246018Gonna call bullshit on that one.Reinstalled it just to test and mauling the mouse does nothing with the music.
People like to think they're god-tier strategists, and that the only reason they lose is that the other person is faster or employed some kind of "cheese"
>>2245907*laughs in LimitedViper*
>>2246189>fasterWorst part is that it's generally not even the case.They think 90APM is some Olympic-tier accomplishment that require years of sweating to achieve, not realizing themselves are often way above that in non-RTS games. RTS are among the most relaxed genre speed-wise.It's like complaining that FPS have too much text to read, and that's not wanting to be a speed-reading tryhard is the reason you got AWP'ed 5 times in a row at the same corner.
>>2245907pretty bad strategy to be slow and decrepit
>>2245907>inhale>exhale>liveI mean what the fuck
>>2246287Asthma isn't real, there are only people who should git gud at inhaling.
>>2245907>I can't pause real life therefore strategy can't exist
>>2245982why do you post in such a dishonest and baity fashion? dont be such a disgusting little gremlin
>>2246266It's a convenient thing to blame, especially when games display your APM compared to your opponent and it becomes a dick-measuring issue similar to K/D in FPSes. Shitters are just bad at playing and bad at learning how to do better.
>>2246312A real life hour takes on real life hour to pass so its pretty slow and makes pausing unnecesary.
>>2246275Strict timers in chess only exist to force mistakes. If you gave GMs a generous +30 or even +60 seconds per move, a large amount of matches would end in a draw.
RTS are multi unit action games.
>>2246275With 1-3 hours for each game, advantage is minimal.>Speed/Blitz/BulletNot chess
>>2245907>invent the radio>win because i can give my guys orders faster than the radioless guyswowowowow no. god needs to balance this out NOW
>>2250513Except the RL units have infinitely better AI and you don't need to micro them, so just giving them a single "attack move" command in RL is the equivalent of several dozens of micro commands in vidya, if not a lot more, to get an equivalent performance out of them. Not to mention that sometimes just telling them the overall strategy you're going for is sufficient as a "single" command, to replace literal minutes of dozens of micro commands
I've been saying for years, they're actually just a gradient of the same genre. RTS Games >>><<< Fighting Games >>><<< Rhythm Games
>>2252290Literally every game falls on this gradient you retard.
>playing pvpYou get what you deserve.
>>2245907Fucking agreed. Really liked the concept of Anno games, but couldn't keep playing it because there was no effective pause and autopause.
>>2260026OP is playing against the computerYou fucking retard
>>2245907pressing button faster than opponent is pretty much every PvP vidya .every single game is just a skinner box of press button for stimulus. press button-->see output-->press button--->see other outputboiling down all games like this demystifies the expierence "breaks immersion" via awareness of conditioning which is the first path to breaking the conditioning. looking back when video games was mainly nerd shit I see how people would look at gamers with pity and disgust. They are pressing buttons purely to hear the different beeps and boops on screen. and getting some sort of visual feedback as well. which amounts to something akin to masturbation. like you could be more productive if you tried to play the piano or synthesiszer. But anyways I agree with you OP. When I play RTS im not intersted in hitting hotkeys and other stuff. I like to sitback and enjoy the ambiance and environment of the game. When it comes down to press button faster competitive play, I hardly see the point of a UI/UX and a graphical display. you're more concerned with other stuff besides graphics. in competitive play.
>>2265239>pressing button faster than opponent is pretty much every PvP vidya . No its not. I don't remember people winning in civ multiplayer or any card game by using a shit strategy and pressing the buttons fast enough.
>>2265789he made a stunning discovery that people enjoy clicking dem computersdon't be mean, everyone was young once
>>2265789card games arent vidya. they were merely ported to a digital media. the PvP vidya that doesnt have some sort of twitch reaction component is in a very small minority. the competitive scene in civ and homm is severly dwarfed by rts,arpg moba,fps and mmo.
>>2245929Fund it!
>>2267443nice moving of the goalpost
>>2268600i said pretty much every pvp vidya. im not moving goal posts, you're just grasping for retorts
You could make a game where there is deliberately lag between orders and action. But no one would play it.
>>2268708tell that to the ten million guys playing BW on dial-up
>>2245907The strategy is encoded in the proper combination of buttons pressed at the right time, just like in all games.
>>2268780... actually: just like in all PC activity. Even if you design a say, part of a turbine in a CAD program, it comes down to proper planning which is again encoded in the right button presses at the right time.
>>2245907I'm not really the type to play RTS, but wouldn't most unit have timer to build? How does pressing button faster make you win?
>>2268785the process that led to developing a turbine had less rules and contraints than a game of starcraft
>>2268799There are RTS games where you can make your units dodge arrows and cannonballs like Neo, by moving slightly to the side as the enemy is shooting at you. If you can click faster, you can do this all over the map simultaneously and be invincible in multiple locations.
>>2269205there's a limit to how fast you can do thingsit's somewhat malleable to your mental state, how tired you are, thing like thatand it's also improvable through practice and out-of-game regime, like sleeping well and being in good physical shapethe strategy in RTS games involves rationing your current attention and "control capacity" among the various things toooverfocusing on unit micro means weakening economy control, focusing on calculating how much unit production you can maintain on current economy distracts you from looking at the minimap, having to take a shit during the game ensures certain defeatin ye olden days, chess grandmasters would undertake rigorous physical endurance training regimes before world championship matches, to make sure they can concentrate and maintain attention for longer, as part of preparation... strategy
>>2245907Yeah I was over RTS pretty early on for the button mashing, actions-per-minute bullshit. Not gonna say its not strategy though, I just dont care for the format. There is turn based, but that feels a little too table-top for me. I loved the early Total War series for the fact it kind of combined the best of both. All turn based when it came to management but you still get to fight battles in real time with whatever resources you managed to strat into the battle in turn-based mode. It's real god damn shame they dumbed the games down so much and shitted them up with stupid mechanics. Now I can't find anything I like. The paradox stuff seems to be the next best format but it's also kind of boring not having real battles and just blobbing around. Anybody got other suggestions?
>>2246275chess is not a strategy game, retard
>>2245907Mr Slow on YouTube. 20 APM still wins. Not just clicking faster.
>>2246266A lot of shit that you do in RTS isn't taken into account by APM. It doesn't help that RTS interfaces often suck ass.
>>2245907I haven't played AOE 2 against another human for about 6 years or so now. And that was just a series of matches against a friend of mine I knew personally.If you play ANY game competitively and care about winning or losing them, you're an irredeemable basement faggot and really should get a job.This board is for normal people who only play AOE 2 and StarCraft 2 single player for the kino campaigns and maybe to get gold medals.
>>2245907I've never considered gookclick to be strategy.
>>2269330Right? It's clearly a rhythm game.
>>2245907Play better games and not gookclickers.
>>2245929There's Patapon and Ratatan for that.
>>2245907>play>have higher iq than an enemy>winWhy is this considered strategy and allowed on this board? This shit is basically just having superior genes but online.
>>2245907Aoe 2 is the easiest game of all age of empires, is literally a baby game.
I wish I could still play RTS. My wrist is shot. I can't use a mouse anymore at all
>>2245907If you lose simply because your opponent is faster than you, that just means you suck at strategy as well as being fat and slow.
>>2295079it has nothing to do with being fat and slow, just look at Hera and MrYo.It has everything to do with knowledge about the game.People who say "RTS isn't real strategy because click fast" would get obliterated by time constraints alone in a chess tournament by anyone who actually knows and practices the game.
>>2295064Have you tried vertical ones?Solved my wrist problems in literally a single week.
>>2295064put your whole arm into moving your mouse
>>2245907If only there was a way to combine real time and turn based strategy to get the best of both worlds. Too bad the only company to ever do it turned into ultraslop with zero competition.
>>2246287you are a victim
>>2245997>BUILD A GUY>BUILD A BUILDING>BUILD A GUY>BUILD A GUY>BUILD A BUILDING>FOCUS FIRE ONE UNIT!>FOCUS FIRE ONE UNIT!>FOCUS FIRE ONE UNIT!>FOCUS FIRE ONE UNIT!>FOCUS FIRE ONE UNIT!Yeah, that's a real brain melting strategy there general....
>>2270021>It doesn't help that RTS interfaces often suck ass.Being expected to do CTRL/SHIFT + *Commands* to add / change / assign shit to hotkeys will never not be a pain in the ass... And 3 times as worse when you have to do so under pressure, which is basically all the time in RTS.>They fucking die anyways>Gotta do all that shit againMight as well just get good at selecting shit on the screen, since you already need to do that anyways...>Oh but the game can auto assign a bunch of shit to them automatically with no user input aside from the most basic singular unit type setting!That's half my point. The day I can JUST assign a fucking command group that will be automatically rebuilt /regrouped on the fly with ZERO input from me aside from putting the fucking units there in the first place is the day the genre goes mainstream again.
this board would be pretty much dead if the strategy thingy was actually enforced. rts games and total war games unfortunately do shit up the catalog but at least the >peopleplaying them are contained in a few barely alive threads. I doubt they would fuck off to reddit if they weren't able to post here so it's good enough I guess
>>2295064Pausable RTS + controller support unironically.
>>2246275without an increment of at least +60 seconds nuchess is a shitty rts
>>2311600>rts games and total war games unfortunately do shit up the catalogIf rts games shat up the catalog, I'd be ecstatic. Unfortunately it's Hoi4 autistic mod NIGGERS who shit up the board with their gay russian culture
>>2311595You're looking for BAR/Zero-K, you can perma add a unit type to control groups and it persists between matches.
>>2314185>BARWhat's the point of unit groups when the only winning strategy is to just turtle until you can build artillery? Any other strategies aren't worth wasting resources on. >Endless QoL features out the ass>Every game requires nearly half an hour of mindless rote economy/base building>Now I can make decisions!>What unit do I make while waiting for artillery?I like the QoL stuff but every other part of it is fucking terrible and boring. >They just updated Legion units and make their unique artillery look nearly identical to the Armada variantSorry but the devs are just too fucking retarded to make any good decisions, and I chalk up the QoL features to just be noob bait for this 0-fun overbalanced shit-fest of a "game"
>>2314215You're bad at the game.
>>2314283You think you're "good" at a SHIT game
>>2245907Actually the problem is that gamers optimize the fun out of everything and in AoE and RTS games in general that means you must follow the flowchart for your particular civ and failure to do so results in losing the game as your opponent is following their flowchart and RTS games come down to who follows their flowchart the quickest. In AoE especially the flowchart is far more important than even micro. This makes the game great for PvP as if both sides follow their meta build orders the game becomes purely skill based, the problems arise when you try to use a more fun but suboptimal build order or unit type. If you want an easy civ that has a good winrate in shitter elo then just spam Goths, Byzantines, Magyars and Franks or even Teutons, also Britons but they're Archers so they need a bit more micro.
>>2311588Which building do you build? Can you afford to build it now? What if building it now sets you back from researching a valuable technology you need, which is more valuable the earlier you get it? What if you're better off focusing on the buildings and units you already have, and producing more of one particular unit instead of diversifying to multiple units? How can you make the choice? You need more info, so you better send a unit to go see what your opponent is doing. If he's already massing an army to come toward you, then you need military units right now to defend or counterattack to pull him away from your base, but if he has no army then it's probably safe to go for the valuable technology instead. This is all an example of how strategy works in RTS games. You hyper-fixate on APM because you are slow and bad at the base mechanics of the game, so it's all you can think about. You never get to the level where you are free to actually think about the game in strategic terms.
>>2314689>AoEWe literally just had a pro-level tournament set on Arabia that showcased a huge variety of strategies including several off-meta builds for popular civs. You are pretending like "the meta" is a solved thing, but it isn't. It's always shifting as people find new opportunities in unexpected combinations of mechanics. Sometimes it results in really cheesy, annoying things, sometimes it results in deep mechanical play being the deciding factor. Other times it just creates chaos where the person who can adapt fastest wins.
>>2314689>Actually the problem is that gamers optimize the fun out of everythingThis is true for the corporate twitch addict losers who treat games like a job.But not everyone is like that.
>>2248829Mmm... Currently most classical games end in draws.
>>2303905play sword of the stars 1
>>2311588>FPS>CLICK MOUSE ON CERTAIN COLORED PIXEL>HOLD KEYBOARD BUTTON>CLICK MOUSE ON CERTAIN COLORED PIXEL>HOLD KEYBOARD BUTTONall FPS games are Osu wannabes.
>>2314689RTS is simply one of those genres that really suck to play if your skill is garbage.
>>2246059The computer doesn't tell me what to do unless it is Phantom Brigade, which is turn based.
>>2315700probably the worst take on this board right now.Ask anyone here when they started playing and obsessing over RTS and strategy games in general.You don't *need* to play competitively in korean tournaments to enjoy the genre. You don't even need to play against other people to catch the RTS bug.
>>2315835I meant 'suck to play competitively against randoms' specifically.
>>2315700Naeh rts games are still great if you're dogshit.Arguably they're even better if you're bad, since then the singleplayer and campaigns become more interesting even on lower difficulties.RTS games suck, if you have a self-inflated ego and can't handle that some people are smarter than you.
>>2315864>RTS games suck, if you have a self-inflated ego and can't handle that some people are smarter than you.That's the gist of what I was implying. If you suck, won't try to git gud, won't play against opponents closer to your skill level, and all you do is seethe that some players can beat you effortlessly in five minutes, it means you're in no condition to enjoy playing.
>>2315839>>2315880ahh that's fair
>>2315835>when they started playing and obsessing over RTSProb Warcraft 2 or Command & Conquer, I forget which came out first. Without looking them up I’d guess about 95-96.I haven’t played RTS competitively for about 20 years, but I’ll occasionally fire up a little dow1 single player, as a treat
>>2245907play Knights&Merchants
>>2245907>basically just OsuI'd say it's more like racing.>run a few laps on a race track to get the feel of it>tune up your car for straights/curves/off-road/drift/whatever>hog the road so others can't overtake you>effectively recover from a spin-out>go recklessly when desperate>hope for a miracle when too far behind to catch upIt takes speed to win, obviously, but also knowledge, assertiveness, restraint, composure - basically a lot of experience to play very well.
>>2245982in attention management
>>2245907This is why true strategy games are turn-based.
>>2295064lower your sensitivity and move the mouse with the whole arm, that's how I got better at Quake and that's how you'll get better at RTS games
>>2322220"true strategy" has nothing to do with obediently waiting your turn to strike you fucking moron
>>2322261The focus is on STRATEGIZING, not APM.
The whole problem with RTS is that it's 90:10 when it comes to doing actions with precision and speed and doing all that strategy in real time. The strategy comes in when a player's army is in the wrong place and it loses them the game. The strategy comes into play when a player realizes the enemy wins if the status quo continues, so they're pressured to attack. RTS has those elements, for sure. It's unfortunately not the focus of RTS. It might seem like it is to people who already mastered the precision and speed of input. Would you like chess if you had to read a passage from a book before you make a turn? Plenty of people out there would find the game unaltered. They've learned to read fast. RTS players seem like the kind of people who would have trouble with that. They'd rightly question that the focus of the game seems to be in reading really fast.
>>2245929Starcraft2 already exists
>>2322438A good rts player may realize things all at once. But can only execute orders in a linear fashion. If they could they would micro everyone in a mob and execute base orders simultaneously.
>>2322384you can't strategize while under a time pressure? pathetic
>>2322384>See that ridge? We stand perfectly still until god tells us to move>Ignore that enemy coming at us and bracing weapon>Ignore that he's aiming at us! Ignore it, men!>That's TRUE real life strategy right there, so-ACK!!!!
>>2245956Poor people are people too.
>>2322438>Would you like chess if you had to read a passage from a book before you make a turn?What kind of analogy is this? RTS players don't read and process redundant information, they memorize everything by rote and cite it from their own minds as a checklist on the maps they play for years.the think more about what the player might do next since they already know what they are going to do.
>>2245907
