Is 4X suffering because the developers are bad or because you can buy, for cheap, the best 4X games ever made?
>>2253136>cheap>125 bucks in my currencyMaybe I'll just wait a decade and get it for free like I did with EL1 and let it sit unplayed in my library
>>2253136What is the best 4x ever made?
>>2253354I unno, Civ4-5I said the best games because there are a lot of 4Xs, with most being on steam, and they aren't $125AUD like the other anon is saying
>>2253136the endless series was never good.
>>2253354>>2253365>>2253136i bought a "copy" of Civ 4 CD for like 10 SEA monkee dollars. that was before STEAM existed.i don't pay stupid aussie taxes.
>>2253417What do you mean?
I didn't care for Endless Legend 1. Why would I buy 2?
>>2253136It's a highly saturated market, with no innovation. Copying garbage civ for the millionth time is not enticing.
>>2253547>AoE2RTS players are autists that hate innovation.
>>2253136>EL2>Started with more than 1k people>More than 100 players currentlyI'd still consider it a massive success
>>2253628>4X thread>Starts bitching about AoE and RTS
>>2253136I still don't understand why Amplitude keeps making 4x games instead of crpgs. All that works in their games are nongameplay related features like graphics, lore, story, music, aesthetics, writing etc all of which would be far better off in a crpg. Especially since they keep writing stories centered around characters which would be more fitting crpg and do not fit at all 4x genre.
>>2253354Master of MagicI can see why people prefer smac or MoO
4x is fucking boringits like watching paint dryyou queue the research, the unit, the move or whatever thing (paint the wall)wait for it to drythen paint the next coat ad nauseumholy shit what a terrible genre
>>2253354The Maiden Rape Assault: Violent Semen Inferno
>>2254418My biggest issue with MOM is somewhat weird. I just dont like how it doesn't have borders. I like painting maps. Anyways, is the remake good?
>>2254627>My biggest issue with MOM is somewhat weird. I just dont like how it doesn't have borders. My intro to 4x was Civ2, so that was never a dealbreaker for me.I do think the borders can be a bit heavy handed in many other games, like "sorry I bought this one water tile and now you can't sail through this strait anymore :^)"AI can be very annoying with how they're moving units through "your territory" in MoM though, like even if you settle over an entire continent, but you haven't taken the nodes, so they send troops over there and then they have a full stack of units camped on a nature next to one of your cities until you decide to fight them. >Anyways, is the remake good?I didn't try it, I was hopeful at first, read about it some more and decided to skip it. Their mission of just making a close to 1:1 MoM but with modern graphics and hexes seemed promising to me, but then the devs seemed to be kind of dumb and couldn't even recreate spells made from the original game, that was just so odd to me.
>>2253354I'm coding it right now, please look forward to it
>>2253354Imperium Galactica 2
>>2253136A lot of modern 4x games do not understand the 4x genre. Endless in particular wants to make something you'd see in the scenario of a mod. I don't really care about whatever characters are yammering on about in Endless Space 2, I just want to settle planets, build up a fleet, fight an enemy, and then win through [insert victory condition here]. I don't need a story, I don't need quests or mini-objectives, I just want a fucking 4x video game. The blanker the slate, the better the 4x game.
>>2253354SMAC, Civ4 and 5, GalCiv2, MoO I and II
>>2254309>implying 4X is any differentGo ahead. Name a new one in that anybody liked. i can wait.
>>2253354civ 2
The problem with 4x is they all kinda feel the same and every subsequent play through feels the same is terms of progression and what's optimal.
>>2253354Dominions 3
>>2253354Colonization
I bought endless space 1 in a space 4x hyperfixation a decade ago or something, and i decided i will forever ignore endless games and titles, there's some many good shit out there, they seems to make everything mid and clones of games that already has hundreds of good examples in their genres,i am not judging ES 2 can be good but why i would play a endless game seems that is the copy of a copy of a copy type of thing
>>2255919If the X series games had more realistic production lines and actually proper organic factional diplomacy and conflicts it would be all I ever want from a 4x game.
>>2256428Problem with X4 is that the early game is a shitty space sim with a bad mission system.
>>2256225Why not the latest one? Every iteration is an improvement over the previous one
>>2254627>>2254627MOM has "borders". you get too close to any of the Computer's cities/towns and they get buttmad at you. enough to kill or badly damage relations.too bad the Computer can do the same and expect you to just YOLO.
4X are suffering because not a single 4X actually made exploration goodthe historical ones dont have it because ew know the worldthe more arcade-y ones tend to reduce it to mindless busywork because it's some randomly generated stuff and it's easier to balance if you just spread the same shit arund the same way every time and/or there's generic perks youre always looking for
how can any game possibly fulfil demands for "good" exploration>yeah just give me unlimited interesting discoveries in your gameit's inherently going to be eventually fully discovered
>>2257742if you cant make a feature good, cut itbut 4X cant do that because it's in the namehence they suffer
>>2257752Exploration is fine, your expectations of it are simply unreasonable hence you suffer
>>2257753is it unreasonable to except something fun or at least interesting from what is ostensibly a core pillar of the genre?
>>2257757Stellaris has many exploration events that are commonly found to be fun and interesting
>>2257762stellaris is probably the best in the genre because of sheer volume, there is a lot to see before you keep running into repeats
>>2257742plenty of games have random maps that have you scout the area for resources early gamethat's discovery that never gets old because it's not about the novelty of what you find but about strategy of how much you scout and what you do with what you find
>>2257742Imo, tie discoveries and exploration to technological progress>early game you search for good food sources, good gathering spots, hunting grounds, pastures >later you try to discover exotic luxury good, to benefit from global trade>late game you can search for fossils, archeological discoveries (maybe even left there from the early game) and industrial resources required to advance further>very late game you can explore (and exploit) deep ocean and space, and find and utilize rare earth metalsThat's assuming the game is something like Civ, but with less omnipotent player. Just make it so, that you can't explore and understand everything from the very beginning and the exploration never truly ends, just moves to a different level. It doesn't need to be unlimited, it justs needs to be varied. I do think technology and exploration should be tied together for optimal progress in both.
>>2253136Problem with video games in general is that they are always aimed for kids, industry never grows up and add adult content.
define "adult content"
Other than porn, cannibalism, non cartoon violence, rape, torture, stuff you usually saw on Liveleak for starters, these are pretty much never added to any AAA game.Not that they should 100%, but when you exclude them completely from the pipeline and pretend they don't exist the result will always be the same and players will never get to experience anything new, same is seen in other media, same tired rehashed company approved content.
yeah that's the missing puzzle piece stopping games from being good, not enough rape and torture the most juvenile idea of "adult content"
>>2258282yes. kekstart more Rance strat games and suppork nippon devs!
>>2253354The Star Trek one.Unironically.
>>2257757Exploration is the best part because you're still developing your plan based on new information at that stage. It's more towards the mid game when everything has solidified in place and the game becomes more formulaic that 4x drops off. It's part of why I'm so mad that civ7 just copied humankind's civ swapping without using it as a starting point to switch up how these types of games progress. Civ is even the ideal franchise to do such a thing.
>>2257723>the historical ones dont have it because ew know the worldjust don't select a preset map and generate a map like most of the playerbase you fucking retard
>>2260109Historical 4X implies games like EU, Hoi, and Vicky with a fixed Earth map
>>2260184>Historical 4X implies games like EU, Hoi, and Vicky with a fixed Earth mapThose aren't even 4x games nitwit.Jesus.How are you even on this board.
>>2260268>Grand strategy games, such as Hearts of Iron, Crusader Kings, or Stellaris, are a sub-genre or sister genre of 4X that typically require even more detailed planning and execution than games like Civilization or Master of Orion. Within the realm of tabletop wargaming where grand strategy games originate, they are conventionally defined as those games in which the player governs all the capacities of a nation-state, including its economy, diplomacy, and internal politics, with a focus on grand strategy (a nation-state's generalised prerogative in defining and pursuing its interests on the world stage), as against games where the player mostly commands the military during wartime. In computer gaming, this definition holds considerable overlap with that of 4X games, thus a more restrictive set of defining traits are usually used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X
>>2260285>are a sub-genre or sister genre of 4X Did you read what you quoted from wikipedia?Sister Genre of 4x would be close, although, not very meaningful, but also, not a 4x, clearly distinct even in your own citation.
>>2260315yesa sub-genre of 4X is still 4Xand it also says the distinction between the two had to be made up because the core appeal and features are basically the same
>>2260318>a sub-genre of 4X is still 4XIt also isn't that, even though you read it on wikipedia.Some guy, decided to write that on a whim, on 10th of march, 2024.No source for that phrase.https://tvobsessive.com/2019/08/11/the-rhythms-of-digital-history-a-guide-to-historical-grand-strategy-games/Nothing here that says that.Which was the source for that line of text back then.https://www.pcgamesn.com/civilization-vi/strategy-game-endgame-designWhich is the current source, which also doesn't say that.If you'd scroll up on the same page, you'd find the definition and what it covers which is better sourced, and you'd notice how they don't apply to grand strat games like vicky.You know we can go for something even more basic.>4X are suffering because not a single 4X actually made exploration good>the historical ones dont have it because ew know the world>Historical 4X implies games like EU, Hoi, and Vicky with a fixed Earth mapIt's not that 4x games are bad because EU, HOI and Vicky lack exploration, it's that EU, HOI and Vicky lack exploration that means they're not 4x, because they literally don't have one of the 1x'es, as you yourself said.They arguably lack 2 of them.Genres aren't scientific constants, they are conventions often rooted in marketing or journalism, so the definitions aren't perfect.HOI doesn't play like civ, endless legend, master of orion, in 4x terms, HOI only has exterminating and exploiting.Difference between an RTS and TBS is clear, real time vs turns, that's about how good as it gets, but you'd have to be retarded like you to refer to Eu4 as an rts game, even though it is in real time, so we use Grand Strategy because then you know what people mean.
>>2260372EU has exploration They even have literal explorers
>>2260375>the historical ones dont have it because ew know the world
>>2260388exploration exists as a mechanic, you remove fog of war and expose new regionsthe concept of exploring, discovering something new, doesnt
>>22531364X is a genre which is nigh monopolized by the Civilization series. Which prevents it from being a growing genre.It's like how RTS games are kinda dead because everyone would rather keep playing Starcraft or Age of Empires II, so there's very little room for anything else.
>>2261682Civ dominates the historical niche, but space and fantasy 4X are still up for grabs
>>2254411>I still don't understand why Amplitude keeps making 4x games instead of crpgsYou know what? You are right. never thought about it but yeah. Their 4x games are at best mediocre and only carried by settings/look.
>>2254627>Anyways, is the remake good?NOPE. Its trash.
>>2253354GRAB YOUR FEDORAIT'S TIME FOR AURORA
>>2260315A GSG is just 4x with added faggotry.
>>2274486You mean with the faggotry (procslop) removed.
>>2253136There is a very small fanbase for such games with virtually no new customers incoming. So whenever a new game in the genre releases, the playerbase gets split into evermore parts... but a significant part will just keep playing the old games. That's true for all genres (aside from FPS) but 4X is particularly boring and the great selection of city builders these days takes part of the 4X market share away.
>>2274512No, I mean a GSG is a 4x game that has screen after screen of history-flavored larpfiction as well as way too many buttons to push and screens to navigate. the GSG shouldn't even be categorized as a strategy game because it is mostly a combination of cookie clicker up-numbering and barbie dollhouse role playing.civ is better than eumoo is better than stellarisi don't know what the 4x conjugate of CK is, but whatever it is, it is better than CKstop fagging up venerable history by turning it into a game
Anons, please tell me what has happened with CIV VI. I haven't played it since Feb, 24, but I booted it up today and was faced with a bunch of T2K T&C/EULA shit--I was given two options: 'disagree to all' or 'accept all'. I disagreed to all, expecting to be warned and cut off from '''beeg features'''. All of a sudden, my Potato Fry Griller 2005 PC is 20x faster! And not merely on map performance but the fucking loading times. What the cum just happen?
>>2253136Stellaris is the only successful 4X not named Civ because nobody wants to play a civ-like 4X not named Civ and every space 4X is either two decades old or worse than Stellaris. You can thank Starforge and Kerberos for dropping the ball and creating this timeline.
>>2257752You didn't like exploring as the Shoshone?I loved running around looking for ruins to pop.I'd choose bigger maps and 6 civs instead of 8 so I could get multiple research bonuses from getting so many ruins.
>>2253136>Early access
