>>2253136
>cheap
>125 bucks in my currency

Maybe I'll just wait a decade and get it for free like I did with EL1 and let it sit unplayed in my library

>>2253136
What is the best 4x ever made?

>>2253354
I unno, Civ4-5
I said the best games because there are a lot of 4Xs, with most being on steam, and they aren't $125AUD like the other anon is saying

>>2253136
the endless series was never good.

>>2253354
>>2253365
>>2253136
i bought a "copy" of Civ 4 CD for like 10 SEA monkee dollars. that was before STEAM existed.
i don't pay stupid aussie taxes.

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>>2253417
What do you mean?

I didn't care for Endless Legend 1. Why would I buy 2?

>>2253136
It's a highly saturated market, with no innovation. Copying garbage civ for the millionth time is not enticing.

>>2253547
>AoE2
RTS players are autists that hate innovation.

>>2253136
>EL2
>Started with more than 1k people
>More than 100 players currently
I'd still consider it a massive success

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>>2253628
>4X thread
>Starts bitching about AoE and RTS

>>2253136
I still don't understand why Amplitude keeps making 4x games instead of crpgs. All that works in their games are nongameplay related features like graphics, lore, story, music, aesthetics, writing etc all of which would be far better off in a crpg. Especially since they keep writing stories centered around characters which would be more fitting crpg and do not fit at all 4x genre.

>>2253354
Master of Magic

I can see why people prefer smac or MoO

4x is fucking boring

its like watching paint dry

you queue the research, the unit, the move or whatever thing (paint the wall)
wait for it to dry
then paint the next coat ad nauseum

holy shit what a terrible genre

>>2253354
The Maiden Rape Assault: Violent Semen Inferno

>>2254418
My biggest issue with MOM is somewhat weird. I just dont like how it doesn't have borders. I like painting maps. Anyways, is the remake good?

>>2254627
>My biggest issue with MOM is somewhat weird. I just dont like how it doesn't have borders.
My intro to 4x was Civ2, so that was never a dealbreaker for me.
I do think the borders can be a bit heavy handed in many other games, like "sorry I bought this one water tile and now you can't sail through this strait anymore :^)"
AI can be very annoying with how they're moving units through "your territory" in MoM though, like even if you settle over an entire continent, but you haven't taken the nodes, so they send troops over there and then they have a full stack of units camped on a nature next to one of your cities until you decide to fight them.

>Anyways, is the remake good?
I didn't try it, I was hopeful at first, read about it some more and decided to skip it.
Their mission of just making a close to 1:1 MoM but with modern graphics and hexes seemed promising to me, but then the devs seemed to be kind of dumb and couldn't even recreate spells made from the original game, that was just so odd to me.

>>2253354
I'm coding it right now, please look forward to it

>>2253354
Imperium Galactica 2

>>2253136
A lot of modern 4x games do not understand the 4x genre. Endless in particular wants to make something you'd see in the scenario of a mod. I don't really care about whatever characters are yammering on about in Endless Space 2, I just want to settle planets, build up a fleet, fight an enemy, and then win through [insert victory condition here]. I don't need a story, I don't need quests or mini-objectives, I just want a fucking 4x video game. The blanker the slate, the better the 4x game.

>>2253354
SMAC, Civ4 and 5, GalCiv2, MoO I and II

>>2254309
>implying 4X is any different
Go ahead. Name a new one in that anybody liked. i can wait.

>>2253354
civ 2

The problem with 4x is they all kinda feel the same and every subsequent play through feels the same is terms of progression and what's optimal.

>>2253354
Dominions 3

>>2253354
Colonization

I bought endless space 1 in a space 4x hyperfixation a decade ago or something, and i decided i will forever ignore endless games and titles, there's some many good shit out there, they seems to make everything mid and clones of games that already has hundreds of good examples in their genres,i am not judging ES 2 can be good but why i would play a endless game seems that is the copy of a copy of a copy type of thing

>>2255919
If the X series games had more realistic production lines and actually proper organic factional diplomacy and conflicts it would be all I ever want from a 4x game.

>>2256428
Problem with X4 is that the early game is a shitty space sim with a bad mission system.

>>2256225
Why not the latest one? Every iteration is an improvement over the previous one

>>2254627
>>2254627
MOM has "borders". you get too close to any of the Computer's cities/towns and they get buttmad at you. enough to kill or badly damage relations.

too bad the Computer can do the same and expect you to just YOLO.

4X are suffering because not a single 4X actually made exploration good
the historical ones dont have it because ew know the world
the more arcade-y ones tend to reduce it to mindless busywork because it's some randomly generated stuff and it's easier to balance if you just spread the same shit arund the same way every time and/or there's generic perks youre always looking for

how can any game possibly fulfil demands for "good" exploration
>yeah just give me unlimited interesting discoveries in your game
it's inherently going to be eventually fully discovered

>>2257742
if you cant make a feature good, cut it
but 4X cant do that because it's in the name
hence they suffer

>>2257752
Exploration is fine, your expectations of it are simply unreasonable
hence you suffer

>>2257753
is it unreasonable to except something fun or at least interesting from what is ostensibly a core pillar of the genre?

>>2257757
Stellaris has many exploration events that are commonly found to be fun and interesting

>>2257762
stellaris is probably the best in the genre because of sheer volume, there is a lot to see before you keep running into repeats

>>2257742
plenty of games have random maps that have you scout the area for resources early game
that's discovery that never gets old because it's not about the novelty of what you find but about strategy of how much you scout and what you do with what you find

>>2257742
Imo, tie discoveries and exploration to technological progress
>early game you search for good food sources, good gathering spots, hunting grounds, pastures
>later you try to discover exotic luxury good, to benefit from global trade
>late game you can search for fossils, archeological discoveries (maybe even left there from the early game) and industrial resources required to advance further
>very late game you can explore (and exploit) deep ocean and space, and find and utilize rare earth metals
That's assuming the game is something like Civ, but with less omnipotent player. Just make it so, that you can't explore and understand everything from the very beginning and the exploration never truly ends, just moves to a different level. It doesn't need to be unlimited, it justs needs to be varied. I do think technology and exploration should be tied together for optimal progress in both.

>>2253136
Problem with video games in general is that they are always aimed for kids, industry never grows up and add adult content.

define "adult content"

Other than porn, cannibalism, non cartoon violence, rape, torture, stuff you usually saw on Liveleak for starters, these are pretty much never added to any AAA game.
Not that they should 100%, but when you exclude them completely from the pipeline and pretend they don't exist the result will always be the same and players will never get to experience anything new, same is seen in other media, same tired rehashed company approved content.

yeah that's the missing puzzle piece stopping games from being good, not enough rape and torture
the most juvenile idea of "adult content"

>>2258282
yes. kekstart more Rance strat games and suppork nippon devs!

>>2253354
The Star Trek one.

Unironically.

>>2257757
Exploration is the best part because you're still developing your plan based on new information at that stage. It's more towards the mid game when everything has solidified in place and the game becomes more formulaic that 4x drops off. It's part of why I'm so mad that civ7 just copied humankind's civ swapping without using it as a starting point to switch up how these types of games progress. Civ is even the ideal franchise to do such a thing.

>>2257723
>the historical ones dont have it because ew know the world
just don't select a preset map and generate a map like most of the playerbase you fucking retard

>>2260109
Historical 4X implies games like EU, Hoi, and Vicky with a fixed Earth map

>>2260184
>Historical 4X implies games like EU, Hoi, and Vicky with a fixed Earth map
Those aren't even 4x games nitwit.
Jesus.
How are you even on this board.

>>2260268
>Grand strategy games, such as Hearts of Iron, Crusader Kings, or Stellaris, are a sub-genre or sister genre of 4X that typically require even more detailed planning and execution than games like Civilization or Master of Orion. Within the realm of tabletop wargaming where grand strategy games originate, they are conventionally defined as those games in which the player governs all the capacities of a nation-state, including its economy, diplomacy, and internal politics, with a focus on grand strategy (a nation-state's generalised prerogative in defining and pursuing its interests on the world stage), as against games where the player mostly commands the military during wartime. In computer gaming, this definition holds considerable overlap with that of 4X games, thus a more restrictive set of defining traits are usually used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X

>>2260285
>are a sub-genre or sister genre of 4X
Did you read what you quoted from wikipedia?
Sister Genre of 4x would be close, although, not very meaningful, but also, not a 4x, clearly distinct even in your own citation.

>>2260315
yes
a sub-genre of 4X is still 4X
and it also says the distinction between the two had to be made up because the core appeal and features are basically the same

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>>2260318
>a sub-genre of 4X is still 4X
It also isn't that, even though you read it on wikipedia.
Some guy, decided to write that on a whim, on 10th of march, 2024.
No source for that phrase.
https://tvobsessive.com/2019/08/11/the-rhythms-of-digital-history-a-guide-to-historical-grand-strategy-games/
Nothing here that says that.
Which was the source for that line of text back then.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/civilization-vi/strategy-game-endgame-design
Which is the current source, which also doesn't say that.

If you'd scroll up on the same page, you'd find the definition and what it covers which is better sourced, and you'd notice how they don't apply to grand strat games like vicky.

You know we can go for something even more basic.
>4X are suffering because not a single 4X actually made exploration good
>the historical ones dont have it because ew know the world
>Historical 4X implies games like EU, Hoi, and Vicky with a fixed Earth map
It's not that 4x games are bad because EU, HOI and Vicky lack exploration, it's that EU, HOI and Vicky lack exploration that means they're not 4x, because they literally don't have one of the 1x'es, as you yourself said.
They arguably lack 2 of them.

Genres aren't scientific constants, they are conventions often rooted in marketing or journalism, so the definitions aren't perfect.
HOI doesn't play like civ, endless legend, master of orion, in 4x terms, HOI only has exterminating and exploiting.
Difference between an RTS and TBS is clear, real time vs turns, that's about how good as it gets, but you'd have to be retarded like you to refer to Eu4 as an rts game, even though it is in real time, so we use Grand Strategy because then you know what people mean.

>>2260372
EU has exploration
They even have literal explorers

>>2260375
>the historical ones dont have it because ew know the world

>>2260388
exploration exists as a mechanic, you remove fog of war and expose new regions
the concept of exploring, discovering something new, doesnt

>>2253136
4X is a genre which is nigh monopolized by the Civilization series. Which prevents it from being a growing genre.
It's like how RTS games are kinda dead because everyone would rather keep playing Starcraft or Age of Empires II, so there's very little room for anything else.

>>2261682
Civ dominates the historical niche, but space and fantasy 4X are still up for grabs

>>2254411
>I still don't understand why Amplitude keeps making 4x games instead of crpgs
You know what? You are right. never thought about it but yeah. Their 4x games are at best mediocre and only carried by settings/look.

>>2254627
>Anyways, is the remake good?
NOPE. Its trash.

>>2253354
GRAB YOUR FEDORA
IT'S TIME FOR AURORA

>>2260315
A GSG is just 4x with added faggotry.

>>2274486
You mean with the faggotry (procslop) removed.

>>2253136
There is a very small fanbase for such games with virtually no new customers incoming.

So whenever a new game in the genre releases, the playerbase gets split into evermore parts... but a significant part will just keep playing the old games.

That's true for all genres (aside from FPS) but 4X is particularly boring and the great selection of city builders these days takes part of the 4X market share away.

>>2274512
No, I mean a GSG is a 4x game that has screen after screen of history-flavored larpfiction as well as way too many buttons to push and screens to navigate. the GSG shouldn't even be categorized as a strategy game because it is mostly a combination of cookie clicker up-numbering and barbie dollhouse role playing.

civ is better than eu
moo is better than stellaris
i don't know what the 4x conjugate of CK is, but whatever it is, it is better than CK

stop fagging up venerable history by turning it into a game

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Anons, please tell me what has happened with CIV VI. I haven't played it since Feb, 24, but I booted it up today and was faced with a bunch of T2K T&C/EULA shit--I was given two options: 'disagree to all' or 'accept all'. I disagreed to all, expecting to be warned and cut off from '''beeg features'''. All of a sudden, my Potato Fry Griller 2005 PC is 20x faster! And not merely on map performance but the fucking loading times. What the cum just happen?

>>2253136
Stellaris is the only successful 4X not named Civ because nobody wants to play a civ-like 4X not named Civ and every space 4X is either two decades old or worse than Stellaris. You can thank Starforge and Kerberos for dropping the ball and creating this timeline.

>>2257752
You didn't like exploring as the Shoshone?
I loved running around looking for ruins to pop.
I'd choose bigger maps and 6 civs instead of 8 so I could get multiple research bonuses from getting so many ruins.

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>>2253136
>Early access

>>2257807
You just described Civ 5 minus the space exploration/resource part.

>>2253231
it's crazy how greedy they got... I remember buying endless space 1 for 30 bucks to help them to finish the game during early access and when i tried to buy ES2 it was around 80... Yeah fuck them.

>>2253417
/thread

>>2253417
Hard disagree. I've only played EL1 but it's possibly the greatest 4x ever made. Even if it's not your cup of tea, it's objectively well made, like, it blows basically everything else out of the water.

I found humankind very boring, though. I have endless space and haven't played it yet.

>>2254306
I learned long ago to buy games at the end of their development cycle. It's just a superior experience in every way, assuming we're talking single player games.

>>2274574
You also have more games adopting 4x elements while not being 4x games themselves and many players just like the elements of 4x and not necessarily the genre itself.

Most GSGs are just one step removed from idle phone games when it comes to how passive they are. It's mainly for people enamored with alt-his and watching what if videos and retarded challenge runs on youtube are for

>>2297086
meh... Combat sucks dick and the winter mechanics is such an annoyance.

>>2297102
You just got filtered. In your defense, the combat isn't explained well. Once you understand it, though, it's literally the best 4x combat ever designed. Better than age of wonders.

Winter is integral to the game mechanically and lore wise. That's a very weird complaint to have. That'd be like saying you don't like spell casting in age of wonders, or you don't like the idea of science in civ.

wow this game must STINK

>>2253354
I'm going to punch anyone who says MOO2

>>2253136
Its still in alpha bro

>>2253136
4x is suffering because everyone tries to ape Civ in historical games and MoO2 in space 4x.
Zero fucking flair, zero originality, zero innovation - DW and Aurora are probably only original indie space 4x out there that dont copy moO2 almost 1:1 like rest of these fucking games.

>>2297147
Shadow Empire and Age of Wonders are fun tho

>>2297107
no, i didn't... I just built big armies and pressed auto. Combat still suck balls.

>>2297275
People like you are why we get games like civ6/.

>>2253354
civ2

>>2297278
brother. Civ 6 is still a good civ game and this is the same strategy we use since civ2 days. Big stack big win.

>>2253354
Civilization Call to Power

>>2297218
Shadow Empire is cool precisely because it is original and complicated.

>>2253136
I didn't buy endless legends 2 because I heard it was woke and superficial checking confirmed it was woke

dont make your game woke if you want people to buy it

>>2297449
Civ 6 and 2 are not even the same genre of game. It's like comparing Mario bros to Mario rpg.

>>2298309
explain how it's mechanically, objectively a different genre

>>2298323
Civ 6 is basically a puzzle or city builder game, while 2 classic 4x.

>>2298573
you are dumb.
if 6 is puzzle then so are 5 and 7.

>>2253426
Civ 4 came out years after steam

>>2298632
Back in that era Steam was mostly a means for Valve to digitally distribute Half-Life 2.

>>2298573
retard

4x is a trash genre for trash people.

>>2253354
Distant Worlds Universe.

>>2253136
Because the devs are fucking retarded. They'll make deep games like Emperor of the Fading Suns or Distant Worlds Universe then completely disregard their success or what people loved and make a half assed sequel AKA Distant Worlds 2.

I just want Distant Worlds Universe with a better game engine, better ui, either 2D or 2.5D ships but NO 3D SHIPS and more deep gameplay options.

>>2298746
You're years out of date. DW2 has been fixed for a while.

>>2298762
>DW2 ever fixing the 3D garbage ships draining too many resources while running.

Heavily doubt. Did they ever do that graphics update they said they were going to do?

>>2298770
They've been constantly making updates, don't know specifically what you're referring to.

>>2298775
https://www.reddit.com/r/DistantWorlds/comments/1lvo41g/distant_worlds_2_shadows_rising_releasing_this/

>>2298783
The current build is ready for shadows rising, they haven't released the dlc yet, I think it's in the beta branch now.

>>2253136
Both, but mostly the former. Devs today do not understand what 4X players, by and large, want. Is a story good? Sure, sometimes. Do we want balanced gameplay? Sure. But more than that, we want a sandbox game that lets us start from low complexity and end at tremendous complexity. We want diplomacy, war, trade, and research, and we want to be able to do it in our own time, or even not at all if we're feeling that way. The biggest problem is that most 4X's today do not let you just play the fucking game, they interrupt you all the goddamn time. So the simulation that you're a part of quickly unravels. In Civ VII Eras hamstring me constantly. In EL2 incredibly cringey dialogue gets in my way fucking non-stop and there's no way to avoid it and play a complete game.

It's a pain in the ass. Put the story in the BACKGROUND. Do the Alpha Centauri thing. Just let me play the fucking game from start to finish at my own pace, with my own decisions as to how I want to do everything. Stop jerking me around, it's annoying. These dickheads keep trying to make 4X something it's not. It's never going to work, just give us actual GAMEPLAY, and not like a fucking boardgame either.

>>2298691
Why are you coping about saying something objectively wrong

>>2253354
BloonsTD6

>>2253354
Seed of the Dead

>>2299092
>t. doesn’t remember the night Steam released

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>>2299074

Is it worth $30 dust?

>>2253136
It's early access with no multiplayer, retard.
>>2253417
Get a load of this faggot, LMAO.

>>2299074
TRUE

>>2253136
It's because at this point in time they're all the same fucking game with different reskins and slightly different mechanics.

>>2253354
Civ 3

>>2297086
Nah not even Endless Space was good (none of them). Everything from the UI to the mechanics is a bland copy-paste of other games or worse.

I guess Endless Dungeon was mostly fine, but that's the only Endless game that is playable.

>>2253136
It's because 4x was never that good. What does any 4x game do that HoMM3 didn't do?
>but here's this really specific economic feature
>you have more knobs and whistles to manage your economy
>here's this really specific feature in combat
>it's actually rtwp
>this combat has some depth
Truth is, whatever you're coming up with, you're proving the point I'm making, and you're deluding yourself otherwise. The genre was fundamentally DoA and no innovation has taken place after HoMM3. Just play HoMM3 if you want the 4x experience. Replace HoMM3 with Civ 5 if you really hate magic.
Point is, you play one of these games, you have no reason to play the genre ever again in your life, because it has all been done before

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>>2306431

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>>2306537
t. checkersfag

>>2253354
Masters of Orion 3

>>2253417
this
I can't even put my finger on it, but every time I try one motivation peters out. Space or Legend.

>>2253417
it had some good ideas and worldbuilding but now everyone has copied their mechanics and amplitude got woke and started making ugly buggy flops full of blacks that nobody wants

>>2310731
>it had some good ideas and worldbuilding
both versions of the endless setting would be better explored in a story-focused crpg
the 4x/tbs mechanics don't aid in experiencing the world and its characters, if anything they detract from it

>>2310787
their good ideas were all 4X mechanics like FIDS and districts, writers/artists need to be kept on a leash and the fewer the better or you get >>2253469, so better to accomplish more with less writing/art