It's unfortunate that the Definitive Edition for Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War completely failed to address the biggest thing that's holding it back from unlocking its multiplayer potential.The lack of information transparency.The game tells you like 10% of the things you need to know to properly utilize your units.>This unit has armor type (Heavy) Infantry and it's good against Infantry and/or Heavy Infantry.Majority of units in the game, but there's a huge difference in how and why they are effective against Infantry or Heavy Infantry. Then you get situations where you are clueless until you experience it, if you see then comparatively unique armor types like Commander or Daemonic, and even then it makes a big difference on what kind of unit is having this armor type. The most straightforward group is Vehicle armor type - most units that claim to be good against Vehicles are, in fact, good against the Vehicle armor type. But some of them are also great at ruining infantry compositions despite not being good against them, some are useless against infantry unless it's a small unit size squads... etc etc.I think it would've been much better if the game just straight up listed the weapons the units use and explained exactly how each weapon type generally works and what are the weapon's advantages and disadvantages. Like get rid off "this unit is good against X" and instead "this unit has [weapon], which is effective against [armor type AND what quantity/quality we're talking about][+ any special ability of the unit's weapons]. And then, instead of blindly relying on vague "good against" tips, you can go down into the minutia/balance issues, how the Heavy Bolter for Space Marines is actually superior to Plasma Guns in 99% of cases because the Plasma Guns don't do enough damage in their niche, and their only real advantage is that you can fire them (very inaccurately) on the move, unlike Heavy Bolters which need to be set up.We need a Spirit of the Dawn.
Right now, as far as I know, all we have is https://warhammer-guide.ru/, which sometimes give me cykarunes like>Oшибкa 403. Дocтyп зaпpeщeн cyka bliyat>Дocтyп в этy пaпкy зaпpeщeн aдминиcтpaтopoм caйтa или в пaпкe нeт индeкcнoгo фaйлa. Bы мoжeтe пoпpoбoвaть вepнyтьcя нaзaд или пepeйти нa глaвнyю cтpaницy caйтa.>Ecли вы влaдeлeц этoгo caйтa, oзнaкoмьтecь c вoзмoжными пpичинaми вoзникнoвeния этoй oшибки. Bы тaкжe мoжeтe измeнить этy cтpaницy.when I click on my bookmarked links.
And don't even get me started on the fucking piece of shit damage numbers.>93-118 Melee Damage>65-85 Ranged DamageSays the Ogryn, but that tells you almost nothing of value, because of the attack animations, what the attacks do (knocking units back, etc.).You're basically fucked with 9/10 units until you try them out in multiple scenarios. I played Dawn of War Dark Crusade and Soulstorm at least 2-3 times, beating the campaigns with every faction, and some units are still a mystery to me. Especially Eldar.>supposed to be about speed and subtlety>somehow their units can tank harder than almost every BigGuy unit in the gameOk...
>>2257703This always annoyed me too but the true combat matrix is pretty complicated and it's obfuscated for accessibility. DoW is mostly a style game so these details weren't terribly important - it has terrible balance issues.I do think with the remaster and clearly very devoted fanbase they should put this info somewhere accessible in game. As much as I love DoW1, it's hard to take it seriously when some races are so much better than others and many units are outright useless. They ought to work with the community for balance patches and give the game the scene it deserves but, then again, most of the community just wants 100 pop cap and titans.
>play as Ork, 1v4 imperial guard, Insane AI>win easily>play as Space Marine, 1v4 ork, Standard AI (three levels lower)>unwinnableDawn of War is a SM humiliation ritual. They are literally not good at anything. Not even at being "Jack of all Trades". They're "shit at all trades".
>>2258743I wish space marines were worse.
>rocket units are supposed to be anti-vehicle>they completely lock down infantry squads and rape their morale
>>2257703>We need a Spirit of the Dawn.Be the change you want to see, you got your jewtubing career right here.Or try to get him to play DoW1.
>>2257713This is the one 40k product where Eldar are not the designated jobbers (including their own codex), let them have it.
>>2257713>Especially Eldar.>>supposed to be about speed and subtlety>>somehow their units can tank harder than almost every BigGuy unit in the gameit's already well known that the devs love Eldar and nerfed every single non-Eldar faction. you get better value for resource pts playing as Eldar.
>>2259009that's how the devs patched it, anon. also Necrons. they especially love nerfing the "tanky" factions with bigger units that cost more.
>>2259507I love necrons so that is indeed unfortunate but I am willing to accept that sacrifice.
>>2259507Back in the day I used to shit on my friends so hard with necron that we house rules banned them alongside DEldar because everyone thought they were OP.Are you telling me my friends were bitchmade all along?
I hate how one stray (blown away from his squad, even if it's off the cliff or something) unit from the squad getting engaged in melee makes your whole retarded squad stop shooting and run down the cliff to help their buddy getting gangraped in melee
>>2258743Orks are also just really good.You might fare better as space marines vs guardsmen.
>>2260155you were all born and raised bitches
>>2260203Perfectly managed to capture the tabletop game, then.
>>2258743Lack of devastators and non terminator veterans. All you really got for the most part is tactical squads who are like if Tankbusters or Fire Prism had to halve their firepower for no reason.
I hate Space Marines because they are just "we are good at everything and better than imperial guard in everything" the faction, according to the tabletop lore. They deserve to be the weakest.
>>2260661>You might fare better as space marines vs guardsmen.Yeah, but Space Marines need to kill Orks for the "kill 1000 of [specific race] cheevo" and considering the best way Space Marines can mow down mass Guardsmen spam is with Heavy Bolters, and Heavy Bolters get raped by Grenade Launchers... I think it would be still supremely hard for SM. The Insane AI spams only Guardsmen with endless Commissar buffs, all with Grenade Launchers + mass Sentinels for some reason. They even mass them over Lemans, though eventually they get them too. I have never seen them use artillery, even though they could have literally insta killed me just by massing them and using the earthshaker rounds on my base, since I was playing the 5 player map where you start in the middle + destroy HQ as win condition. Even the hardest AI doesn't actually chase win conditions and just attacks you when you get near it.
>try playing the Space Marine campaign from the original DoW, vanilla mission after mission with handholding slop>Assault Space Marines' jump doesn't work.Literally 1 usable infantry unit, the campaign.
>>2260155devs are bitches who loved DEI space elves if that's what u meant.
>>2262116I thought the black space elves were Dark Eldar?
>>2262032i remember being introduced to assault marines on a mission where i have to use their jump to win
>>2263307Yeah, luckily I could still use the Whirlwinds instead. It's a bug they claimed to have fixed but in every single mission, Assault SM refused to jump when told to jump. In the Winter Assault campaign, Chaos SM's Raptor Squad can jump no problem.
>>2260987>and better than imperial guard in everythingExcept cost.The Empire can shit out a bajillon IGs battalions for the maintenance cost of a single chapter.
So if the insane AI always spams cheap vehicles instead of making the expensive durable ones that "are good against everything", does that mean they're not worth it? Starting to think so, especially when you make them and they get stuck inside your base unable to move somehow.
>>2264806All insane AI does is multiply their req and power so that they have more resources than you.
>>2264955That's true but it also increases their aggressiveness. When they have more resources than you, they attack you. If you have more resources than them, they won't attack you unless you shoot at them first.
Did the Definitive Edition change ANYTHING at all in terms of PvP balance?
>>2265715Yes.
>>2262193they all wimpy skinny autists.
I cannot self insert if Space Marines are the weakest. I look like a Space Marine IRL.
>I look like a Space Marine IRL.grim
>>2266027the right one is right
>>2266086you're a microcephalic freak then?
>>2266022>cannot self insert if Space Marines are the weakplay the FPS game instead. even in older games they get killed pretty fast if you screw up. a laa Space Hulk: the DOS RTS game.>https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Hulk_(video_game)
have they fixed being able to play dark crusade mods yet without the game constantly crashing? i bought it at launch to use dawn of skirmish AI mod for it, but i'd crash every 10-15mins with it and couldn't even paint my units using army painter since forcing definitive edition into dc fucked everything up it seemed.no, i refuse to play soulstorm, so dont ask me to.
>>2267060why don't you just play soulstorm?
>>2267233>Steam friends threadAdd me friend!
Battle Realms: Zen Edition (its "Definitive Edition"/remaster) which also released this year showed DoW how to do it right and yet it took no inspiration from it even though DoW obviously ripped off the "ranged units switch to {possibly weaker} melee attacks when engaged in melee" from Battle Realms, which came out years before the original Dawn of War.It changed the balance almost entirely, while still keeping the original's resistance knowledge relatively valuable. All the overpowered strats from the original? Addressed so hard that most people cannot even finish the campaign because it's too hard, night impossible on the hardest difficulty. Quality of life changes to the unit control, and most importantly all the info you need to know about the unit is now visible in the game's interface during realtime play. The original had only slightly more information available than DoW does now.
>>2258743Green is best. Try Dark Angels or Salamanders.
>>2267233i dont like the balance changes, i dont care for the new factions, i dont like the air vehicles, and i found a good dc ai mod and dont care to figure out a good ss one even if i knew how to revert all the other stuff i dislike in ss.
>>2267060>have they fixed being able to play dark crusade mods yet without the game constantly crashing?Probably, most of the positive reviews are saying that they don't mind that the Definitive Edition added nothing because their mods are working they're happy.
>>2267974>i dont like the balance changesWhat did Soulstorm balance from Dark Crusade other than adding new vehicles?
>>2268136i dont know them all, but they nerfed space marines by only letting them carry 4 instead of 5 squad weapons. forcing you to buy more upgrades for the same overall effect. they also nerfed the rocket launcher damage.i mainly play space marines and love spamming just space marine squads, so that hurt a lot.
>>2266118>microcephalic freakWell, he's a 40k fangay after all.
>>2257703I legitimately don't care about any of this How do wytches and sister repentia look in the HD version?
>he jerks off to formerly-female space marines (before the reveal/canon update that Space Marines can identify as women too)
WHY IS THERE NO KEYBOARD SHORTCUT FOR REINFORCEMENT ON OVERWATCH? literally everyone wanted this and we still don't get it
>>2257713KEK
>>2269519It's to create artificial difficulty for the player.
Why can't the individual units switch to melee when they're attacked in melee? How can it be so hard to program?
>>2257703>holding it back from unlocking its multiplayer potential.>The lack of information transparency.Anon, it's been over 20 years. Everyone knows everything they need to know already.>Like get rid off "this unit is good against X" and instead "this unit has [weapon], which is effective against [armor type AND what quantity/quality we're talking about][+ any special ability of the unit's weapons]. Then you're just going to end up with a wiki worth of text tooltips over every single weapon upgrade for every single squad in the game.Space Marine squads alone with 4 different weapon upgrades would suffer the most. And then you have to take into consideration that one extra weapon doesn't make that much of a difference in effectiveness against a specific enemy typeDoW multiplayer never gained much traction because the game is just much, much more enjoyable in single player compstomps. Nobody likes eldar niggers teleporting behind you and shitting out a whole army with a single webway gate.Imagine zerg nydus canals that are also invisible and some factions have like 2 detector units.40k just sucks massive donkey dick
>>2281819>Space Marine squads alone with 4 different weapon upgrades would suffer the most.You just hover over the weapon once and you know what it means and what it does. Age of Empires 2 at least semi-accurately states what the units are good against (even though it doesn't list the exact number bonuses) and it does this for every unique unit and no one complains about it. The Space Marine squad would be just a unit group that can replace its base unit with four different units. But plasma always does the same thing, flamethrowers always do the same thing, etc. You just get more of the same damage type generally the more expensive the unit is.It's super simple.
>>2268136they made necron scarab swarms anti-air only rendering them useless
>>2281847the new definitive edition added a no flying units option which turns scarabs back into ground units iirc.
Why is there no flying in the tabletop universe
>>2282677dangling models from the ceiling is impractical
>>2282677bad game design
>>2282313big if true
My problem is that I want to play with the rules from vanilla DOW or Winter Assault. Dark Crusade was shit and totally fucked the balance of the entire game. I never played Soulstorm but it sounded even worse.
>>2282677it would be too OP
>>2257703It's a problem in EVERY Relic game.I remember I asked devs during alpha for CoH2 to put more information for the player in and the response was>We want them to have their own story on the battlefieldOnly by CoH3 they FINALLY they acknowledged that maybe they need more info
>>2261016Have you tried rushing to tier 2 and getting dreadnoughts? Something I always struggled while playing guard is dealing with vehicles without the Leman Russ
>>2282826>Dark Crusade was shit and totally fucked the balance of the entire gameworst opinion ITT
>>2283013They would get insta-raped by Sentinel beams from afar before they could even touch them through the sea of guardsmen bodies.
>>2282938Impossible Creatures has pretty clear details about what your units do. Considering the game is all about making your own army of custom units, they kind of had to though.Even they're a little vague on some details.
