Foundation is closer to a city painter. It's comfy but doesn't have a lot of game really, it's just about making pretty cities.

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like them both, simple as

>>2271094
Other way around for me. I pirated both, ended up buying foundation when it came out and I think foundation has more room for creativity. I see myself reinstalling foundation but not FF, specially after the patches

>>2271400
>specially after the patches
What did the patches do?

>>2271426
>What did the patches do?
Almost nothing. That fag up there is a bitch ass shill.

Foundation gives you more freedom than FF and you'll be able to play it for longer before you grow tired of it. It has a far bigger collection of mods than FF as well as a mod browser integrated into the game. The only thing that FF has over Foundation is that you can order your dudes around in very rudimentary combat.

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>>2271084
It's literally same shit, different title.
Colony survival builders are the OSR of vidya - everyone is making the same game with cosmetic differences, yet retards consume everything thrown at them.

>>2271084
Farthest frontier has some absolutely bullshit QoL things like no quick way to clear farm fields

Farthest Frontier is more like Banished while Foundation is more like The Settlers.

Fucking hell
Just realised the reason my iron production has gone to shit is because these retards walk half the map to the mine itself to pull resources
Implement a limited pull area or ability to assign the workshop to pull from a specific storage
FF with more bullshit to be a pain in the ass

>>2273046
>tell everyone you haven't played either without saying it.

>>2278030
>Foundation is more like The Settlers.
I've only played the demo of Foundation but I can't agree with that. The Settlers is rts series with (at least in the older titles) focus on chains of production and it has little to none city-builder elements. Sure the cartoony artstyle and some production chains might resemble the Settlers but that's really a stretch and nothing that's explicitly unique to the series.

>>2271426
Dunno, didn't read and haven't played the game since, just saw there was a new patch every now and then
>>2271495
kys

>>2278667
>It's banished, but with production chains
>It's banished, but food rots
Geee, what a stark difference!

>>2271084
Bellwright. New udapte the 9th

>>2281146
>game is game but with x
Not beating those retard allegations.

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https://store.steampowered.com/app/2426560/Nova_Roma_Demo/

The Nova Roma Demo just launched. It's made by the Kingdoms and Castles devs, but it's Rome (VGH).

>>2282455
They are still pretending this game will ever came out, rather than being EA moeny grift? I'm not sure what's weirder - that they are still trying or that there are still people buying into this "project". It's been now almost 2 years and the game is as broken, bare-bones and janky as it was, with no real progress in sight.

Said all that, I'm not surprised people buy into the idea of it, because on paper, this is fantastic. Sort of how Ancient Cities is fantastic project on paper, but then got made by complete fucking retards, meaning copy-cats like Dawn of Man got ahead of them and actually delivered, while the "muh graydiest idea evah!" project by bunch of Idea Guys is still fighting its own engine, with no end of dev cycle in sight after 8 years.

>>2282900
Not gonna lie I'm not fan of this minimalistic artstyle.

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>>2282475
Nta, but he's right. The entire genre is "Banished, but...".
And it's so fuckign tiresome at this point

>>2283033
I would actually play "Banished, but you're monster fucker" if such game existed.

>>2282913
Honestly, I thought they were going to abandon the game like The Last Oasis.
The next udapte seem to add a lot of content but yeah the engine isn't perfect.
There is aska in the same genre which is more fluid.
I'm tired of the same concept being recycled over and over again.

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>>2283654
I kinda miss the mid-to-late 00s jank. It was the moment when all the idea guys were still capable of delivering, and the fact there was a glass ceiling of 4 GB RAM forced them to work with what they had, rather than shruggin it off and assuming the player will pick up the slack with their rig.
Now you have fuckwits that can't code for shit, while simultaniously having to handle stuff in 64 architecture, so the end result is a complete clusterfuck.

>>2282900
I've been waiting for this since the announcement. Kingdoms and Castle was cool, but this looks way more fleshed out and proper.

>>2271084
Here's my take, they're both unfinished, but with Foundation in the worse way.

>>2278534 has the spot on critique of Farthest Frontier. Resource logistics are jank, and just don't work like you'd expect them to. As I got into the late game I was deleting all my storage depots, because it's just better to have your carts fetching raw materials than having villagers walk all the way across the map to fetch two stone on a building project that needs fifty.
If you're looking for a city builder that does the 'horde tears down your city' trope periodically like FF, then also check out Zombie Cure Lab which did it better with none of the hype.

But Foundation could have been great, it's not, but it could have. It's definitely more comfy. But when you peel back the shine, there's just so much bad code under the hood. The 'le organic' housing and villager pathing you will quickly tire of, and just end up training them not to walk into some guys living room with rope fences. Also, everything broken in the game can be solved by just building a bigger bailiffs office. Tax your way to freedom in Foundation.
But the real killer in Foundation is not the completely fubed wheat to bread production chain, or the taverns that do absolutely nothing, it's a creeping savefile corruption bug. If you try to enclose a city bigger than the devs had planned to get the walls bonus, you will go back and find all your savefiles corrupted and unload-able. For this reason I had to toss it. If you're looking for a better city builder where the production chains actually work, maybe try Workers & Resources. Which again, got none of the hype, but at least is functional, if a bit ugly and overburdened with UI options to decipher.

having played fart test frontier since ea launch it ultimately just isn't that good.
also fuck knows how it took so many years. barely anythings changed.

>>2284956
>Which again, got none of the hype, but at least is functional, if a bit ugly and overburdened with UI options to decipher.
it got plenty of hype, wtf are you talking about?
there's been a w&r general for the last 4 years on this board

>>2271084
ostriv

>>2284956
Reinstalled foundation thanks to this thread but this comment reminding me of the existence of taverns made me frustrated just thinking about them. I didn't mind that bread and wheat production didn't sync

>>2288478
the taverns in foundation are a real letdown. serving up tavern meals and berry wine to traveling monks could have been maximum comfy. maybe they'll fix it in a patch, ... some day

Didn't play Farthest Frontier as I am not a fan of Banished clones, but I did play Foundation for around 100 hours and its cool.
Pros:
>comfy city builder
>organic pathways and residential zoning
>production chains are not overly complicated
>mods to expand the game
Cons:
>produtions chains break down in late late game, where (for example) making swords require ungodly amount of iron, from around 3-5 nodes just to keep the blacksmith working. that is not an issue in itself, but those extracted resources from nodes just often do not get transported to the manufacturer, so they just sit there while blacksmith is stalling. this is just one example, another anon mentioned wheat-flour-bread pipeline and it is also problematic due to the same reason above
>performance is absolutely ass for a game with art direction like this one. 4070ti at 4k can go under 60fps at certain graphical settings
>speeding up the game above certain point (3x i think) breaks down the simulation
Neutral:
>not a pro nor a con but if you are more into building production pipelines than making pretty cities, then this is a better "decorative" game than production game.
Keep in note I have not played it since July, and there were some patches since there so some of it may have changed.
If I had to rate: Foundation > Manor Lords = Farthest Frontier (Manor Lords in its final state will most likely be better but keep in mind I do not like Banished clones)

>>2282900
they've made a facebook game, sad
>click this unlock
>you are almost there
>keep playing

all of these games are shallow: one, max two sessions and then forget about them

>>2291782
>mods to expand the game
sex mods?

Foundation needs a road tool. Herding retards to make roads for you is not fun

>>2292731
so are EU and Stellaris but that doesn't stop the cultists from having 20 paradox threads active on this board at all times

>>2294148
i thought that was the game's defining and novel feature, "grids be gone!" and all that. are you saying the biggest selling point of foundation is actually an anti-feature? that's a bold claim indeed.

>>2297292
A big part of foundation is getting over having a perfectly aesthetic road network and just going with the flow. Roads are entirely cosmetic anyway, they don't increase move speed or anything.
I do however wish crop fields and livestock pastures would overwrite roads by default.

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>>2271084
Farthest Frontier is a fairly generic city-builder. It's decently in-depth and the (rudimentary) production chains are neat but it doesn't do anything new. It's just Banished as an actual finished game.

Foundation is slightly simpler mechanically (crop rotations and seasons being the major omissions compared to FF) but the building system is great. Allows a ton of creativity and customization in not just layouts but the buildings themselves.

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>>2271094
>It's comfy but doesn't have a lot of game really
It's not really that much less mechanically complex than any other city builder, but every city builder gets one autistic focus point and for Foundation that's the building design system. For Skylines it's traffic management, for Anno it's production chains, etc.
The actual production chains are on essentially the same level as FF and the logistics are slightly less of a pain in the ass

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>>2284956
>Workers & Resources. Which again, got none of the hype
It's got 7k reviews on Steam and anyone into city builders has heard of it, the hell are you on about

>>2297292
you could have a road tool without also having a grid, fella

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>>2294148
It also needs some idea of property boundary so that people don't wander where they aren't supposed to. Yes you can use fences for fields and the restrict movement area tool
>yes you can use the tools the game gave you
but it would be so much easier if the peasants didn't walk through someone else's back yard by default.

pic related is how I would do it. of course it could get fucky if you ever resized the residential area, but maybe you should just leave things alone once you've build them.

>>2297359
This. It's all fun and gridless games until you're spammed with 50 unable to path messages because some cunt decided to crisscross my wheatfields with dirt roads.

>>2297380
That's basically Manor Lords system minus automated roads.

>>2297395
yes. even being able to draw the roads in and have the game populate them with a user-definable number of properties would be nice

basically, the residential zone should be its own type of monument, and then "monument" should be reclassifed as "property," so that whenever you want to build a monument, you first half to define its property boundaries. (The residential property zone itself would be divided into subproperties). This, in combination with a permissions system for citizen movement, would fix a number of issues like peasants deciding to walk across the church courtyard to sit on a bench because the church being its own property would ensure that they only entire the church zone when it's jesus time and not leisure time. A property system would also be the start of a framework to incorporate actual families instead of everyone being a sexless little robot

>>2297622
>incorporate actual families instead of everyone being a sexless little robot
people don't have kids in foundation? absolutely dropped if so

>>2297753
Last I played you increase pop exclusively by accepting migrants every so often

>>2297753
no, and there is no day/night cycle either
i don't know why these two basic features have trouble making it into colony sims in 2025. they make the game feel more like a colony and less like an antfarm

>>2297763
Didn't know the devs were European.

>>2297865
Canadians actually. From Quebec.

>>2297774
day/night cycles in a city builder are invariably completely pointless time-wasters of a "feature". Never actually adds any gameplay, just "switch tabs and wait out night for 8 minutes so you can get back to actually playing the game".
Foundation has a toggle to visually switch between night and day, which gives all the aesthetic benefit without trying to shove in a half-baked schedule system that adds nothing to the game

>>2297896
Pure cosmetic, sure. But what if come night your solar power stops working, the outside temperature goes to -110 or you need to man the walls?

>>2297896
>Foundation has a toggle to visually switch between night and day, which gives all the aesthetic benefit without trying to shove in a half-baked schedule system that adds nothing to the game
i disagree.
you can just speed time up in the night when nothing is happening or you can use that time to build (provided the game is not too dark to see what you are doing). unless you are constantly running your city builder game at max speed all the time, then you can't complain about "nothing happening"

>>2297914
>your solar power stops working, the outside temperature goes to -110
Day/night is fine if night causes problems you have to prepare for and isn't just "your builders are all sleeping now". Not really anywhere to go with it in a medieval setting though, both of those examples are more sci-fi oriented. Walls have to be manned during the day as well, there really wasn't much medieval peasants were doing at night.
>>2297947
>you can just speed time up in the night when nothing is happening
So instead of wasting 8 minutes I can waste 3 minutes while the game stutters along in the background?
>or you can use that time to build
That's what the pause button is for

>>2297973
Yeah, kinda fair. All I'm saying there's nothing wrong with it if it has legitimate gameplay mechanics or if it's purely there for ambience but can be turned off. Sometimes you just want to step back and look at the pretty houses with their lamps and shit on.

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>>2271094
>>2297351
I've been playing it, and while it is indeed a city painter, it is quite hard to really plan out and build some fancy stuff
I don't really get how connect and make the most of those base build blocks.

I also played Manor Lords and it feels more engaging in terms of resource managing, expanding, battling and etc

I also tried Farthest Frontier and while it seems like it has depth at first hand, and it really didn't got me engaged.

Bought manor lords yesterday, also decided to play foundations again, didn't notice any substancial change, maybe pathing? But I always ignored that issue until it sorted itself unless it made the run unplayable, that just didn't happen, still wouldn't dare to try relocating resource buildings out of fear.
>>2299643
Manor lords seems to make getting food unnecessarily hard
>got fish? Nice, they are not enough once you reach a certain amount of houses
>big game? Always shit, why did you even bother lmao

>>2304749
Hunting and gathering in manorlords is just a short term solution. You need gardens and animal pens both for food quantity, and variety, which means you need to hone in on trade early to afford the seeds and animals.

>>2304754
>hone in on trade early
Does that implies simply building the trade outpost or do I need other building as well. Also, I build one and it didn't allow me to trade because "the rules were set to no trade" lol, maybe because I set it to conquest

>>2304785
It's not very apparent but you can click the no trade button for a dropdown to select import, export, or full trade(both)
As for what you export it depends on your resources. Minor trade routes are always active (you don't have to pay to set them up) and are how you start out. Pelts, carp, and firewood are good starting points. Charcoal is a good major trade route to go for first because you'll be making a lot of it even with only one family on the charcoal burner.
If you have a rich stone deposit then sell rough and dressed stone, if iron make tools and sell the extras.

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i never noticed this fellow in manor lords before

>another episode of builders not building houses in the part of the map I told them to build houses
Maybe because it's too far? Foundation is pure suffering, I don't know why do I still bother

Is Manor lords worth playing or too early in development?

>>2297352
I got the harbours mod that adds piers and other stuff that even functions as a walkable/buildable surface after a game reload. Sadly it also introduces new foods (because mod developers just cannot help themselves and bloat mods with unrelated features) but it's what made building near water click for me. I had a really cool waterfront market and all.

>>2284956
One of my bigger cities in Foundation utterly collapsed because everyone left due to no housing, despite there being tens of empty houses of different tiers meeting requirements and all, only randomly selected houses seemed to work. I never figured how to fix it so I just quit.

>>2297896
Workers and Resources increases power demand at night, has solar power stop working, and vehicles can't go as fast on roads unless they are lit, but nights are mostly for the looks.

>>2307641
Both

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Which way, /vst/?

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>>2307715
My bundle price is different. Do you already own Against the Storm or something?

>>2307722
I forgot to mention I already own W&R, but I've never properly gotten into it, to be perfectly real it fries my brain a bit too much these days. Frankly, PLN prices are so horrendous on seam that it's a sin I buy anything on it.
I keep hearing good things about SoS and Against the storm, though I am not sure if I can commit to Syx enough to actually learn it. Against the storm's premise of developing short-lived small colonies on the frontier that frequently fail to unpredictable dangers seems refreshing and lightweight though I am not super fond o glaringly furry elements. Whiskerwoods I am most curious about seems very Anno-like but with more developed industrial aspect, so I am curious of what people have to say about it given it's EA.

>>2307715
soviet republic makes me want to play songs of syx and songs of syx makes me want to play soviet republic

>>2307739
If W&R was too autistic for you then you probably will bounce from SoS as well. Although all these games have demos (in case of AtS and Whiskerwood the demo download button is hidden on the right, above language options, for some reason) so it might be the best to just try them out yourself.

>>2307739
>I am not sure if I can commit to Syx enough to actually learn it
Songs of Syx isn't really all that complicated. A lot of what people consider complication is just common sense that clicks into place once you realise what the system's meant to do. And fulfilling the demands of your pops is generally quite straightforward once you familiarise yourself with navigating the UI to get the information you need. From there it's simply a matter of how autistic you are about efficiency and seeing how big you can make your city state.

Also, it has a demo that's the full game but it's a few versions behind. It might be worth a try if you're curious.

is anyone going to make one of these medieval games where the farmer actually lives on the land he tills? the yeoman existed back then; not everyone was a serf

>>2307619
I hate how the devs show big cities in trailers when in reality villagers don't have enough range to cover distant workplaces

>>2307996
Manorlords kind of has that with burgage plots. There's even an origin path where you can make them freeholders so the family is only responsible for their plot.

>>2308090
but isn't that just for a tiny vegetable garden? or can you assign one family to one field?

>>2308188
The gardens are as big as you can make them within the plot painting system. The meta is to make a few burgage plots with fuckhuge gardens to feed a whole town, and there are ways to manage it.

>>2307739
>Against the storm
is a worker placement and microoptimization game. If you don't like roguelites (particularly the grindy type where you have to play 100 times to get 2% bonuses) then don't even waste your time with it.

>>2308202
what do i do exactly? make a burgage plot until its planting cost is +200% (+300, +400??) and then assign the family who lives there as smallholders?

can i also chickenmaxx or goatmaxx in this manner or does it only work for veggies?

>>2308337
It's something to do with exploiting corpse pits to lay roads around and then fill in with a min/maxed house to extension ratio. There are videos.
Chickens are locked at a specific output, they and apiaries are optimal for small extensions. I don't remember off hand if pigs and goats scale but I don't think they do. It's basically for gardens and orchards.

Are oxes in Manor lord exclusively for work? Can I eat them? Can I put them in pastures?

>>2310924
Farmhouses have an upgrade that allows up to two oxen per farmhouse to plow fields. And honestly farming is just not worth it without oxen because one family and an ox plows as fast as a full 8 families. Get two oxen and 2 families on farm duty with 6 fields on crop rotation and they'll be done plowing and planting in one season and you can reassign them while the crops grow.

So, when exactly are the porks/goats and chickens will start dropping food? "strong yielf of pork" my ass. Feels like I'm just bricked if I didn't span with one of those king tier map foods.

>>2311590
They only produce a handful of food per year. Nice passive food, but that's it.

Consider rye farming? You don't need perfect fertility for that.

>>2311665
Yes, I just thought that they would provide more food than they did, I just need to accommodate farming earlier than I expected

>>2307706
So after playing Manor Lords for like 15 hours, must say it's a comfy game. If they keep developing it, it will be great.

>>2271084
Farthest Frontier is great overall but it has some real annoying flaws. For example it lacks decent micromanagement tools, which is a pain in the ass since things like travel times between homes, work areas and storage areas is a big deal. Plus switching around seasonal jobs has to be done manually or else they just sit around and do nothing for half the year, which is just lame.

>>2307739
>Whiskerwoods I am most curious about seems very Anno-like
uh, a LOT more like timberborn. except with actual population management mechanics. having to pay taxes is a good stretching goal too. really good for early access and the dev updates with actual content weekly.
I actually wish both timberborn and whiskerwood would steal each others homework.

>>2311860
>switching around seasonal jobs has to be done manually
Play the game chuddie. I don't remember much from FF but is this a bad thing? Manor lords is the same (foundation doesn't have seasons but you need to fiddle around with vills from time to time) I thought it was something normal in city builders,

>>2310944
>Get two oxen and 2 families on farm duty
I don't think just 2 families can harvest everything before autumn rains start

>>2312669
>put two families and two oxen to my plantation
>only one works
Ok, seems like I make my field too small or it just doesn't let you use two oxen at the same time
>Finally finish plowing
>put six million families to seed since only one obviously will never finish
>only seed up to 18% of the land
>mfw
I obviously missed the seasonal timing or that's what I assume, still, that was one expensive joke.

>>2312669
If you start farming the first year it's going to be a reduced yield because you'll at the earliest get the field seeded in may. But come september you should have at least four families that you can put on the field to harvest.
>>2312679
It's 1 ox per field.

If I'm farming the first year I just get the farmhouse down with a 1 morgan rye field immediately after my basics and let them use my second ox for plowing. Over the summer when noone is working in the farmhouse I get the other fields set up for crop rotation. By the time september hits I'll have bought two more oxen so I can have two plowing and two dragging timber. I only do this if I don't have any rich mining deposits, so an agricultural region.
There's also zero reason to keep people and oxen in the farmhouse after the fields are seeded.

Why do I read about corpse pits every time I read about this game? I had the chance to use it just one time, who is dying so much in everyone's games? I usually go out of my territory to kill bandits

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Game ruined.

>>2313209
Because corpse pits are free to place and serve as a good template for roads.
I think they're sovlless min/maxxing but they can be used to plan placement of things.

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Manor Lords is so addictive.. I wish it was a complete product

>>2313605
I think my attempts of making a square city are even more soulless tbhonest, using the pit to make more space for farming seems clever, not all that minmaxi imo and they look good, also the "grid" feels janky and un intuitive.

>>2316050
this
i put 20 hours in in like the last 5 days

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>I wish city builders became popular again
>it's an endless sea of Banished reskins that all play the fucking same

>>2313594
How the fuck do I replenish militia?

>>2311860
>>2312598
>forget to move workers to farms for season
>crops lost
i need a bigger more dramatic notification that harvesting season has begun. i'm too busy managing other shit to notice

>>2320857
>I wish city builders became popular again
Skylines is Paradox's #1 selling game. You don't get many new city builders because the problem with making a generic city builder is that everyone wants to play the best one because it attracts all of the modding and accumulates a scene. Why would I play City State when I could just play Skylines? You have to make a radically different game like W&R if you want people to play your city builder.

On the other hand, there's a bigger market for colony builders (which is what Manor Lords is) because you can appeal to different groups (the medieval crowd, the mars crowd, people who want no combat, people who want some combat, and so on), and so you get a bunch of these games.

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I feel a little dumb when I reroll when I get a start like this, yes, minerals looks nice but no food and one of them is too far.
>>2321505
I would say to pay attention to autumn, no?

>militia capped at 6 squads
why tho

>>2322535
people in the middle ages couldn't count past 6

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>>2322535
because autism

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>>2308202
>make fuckhuge beet garden
>the 4 families living there cant seed the whole plot before its even ready to harvest
>it's even a small holding so this is their only job
lazy cunts

>>2323485
Length is a mistake because of the travel time. You want more girth

>>2320857
It's worse than that. It's an endless sea of generic colony builders too that desperately wish they were Dwarf Fortress but don't want to put in even a tenth of the effort. (not talking about Rimworld, tho)

Recently bought Manor Lords
How the fuck do I make food
And how does the whole cattle-thing work?

>>2323790
>How the fuck do I make food
Build a house with a big backyard plot (+200% extension slot price or something like that) and plant some vegetables there. Backyard gardens yield crazy amounts of food
>And how does the whole cattle-thing work?
Cattle moves timber and plows farm fields if you assign it to a farmhouse. Hitching posts are just parking spots, no need to assign people there

>>2323790
Re roll until you have at least one "premium" food resource. No reason to shoot yourself in the foot with this unfinished game, spam pigs and veggies keep in mind that what >>2323855 works for getting large quantities of food but you will have to pay a large upfront price for big backyards. Buy a second oxen as soon as you can.

>>2323790
Protips
>pick a smaller territory with a central spawn point to reduce rerolling.
They ought to rebalance territories and resource gen at some point because the larger ones can spawn resources far away and be effectively useless. In smaller territories even if resources spawn on the edge they're not truly out of reach.
>the first thing you should do is check fertility to see if you should bother prioritizing farming in the first year
>food might seem scarce but it's less so than it appears. Each family requires a singular food item per month. Even small foraging patches can provide enough to get about a dozen families through the winter as long as you've been stocking up in the preceeding months.
>big backyard gardens are kind of a meta tactic but require some micromanagement to make sure the families tending them don't have high intensity jobs so they have plenty of time to sow and reap their gardens.
>when building houses only build double plots if you intend them to be gardens or orchards. Double plots on anything else is a waste.

>>2324033
>check fertility
>enmer fertility is high everywhere
>wtf is enmer
>check ingame help list of all resources
>absolutely no mention of enmer
>must be useless/not implemented
>find out after several years struggling for food that it's wheat
NIGGAH JUST CALL IT WHEAT FERTILITY

>>2324200
Emmer is a type of ye olde wheat.

>>2324201
then why doesnt the fucking game give me ears of enmer that grind into enmer flour to bake into enmer bread?
the fertility screen should list it as wheat fertility and not change the fucking name for no reason

>>2323855
>>2323874
>>2324033
Ok
Maybe it works this time
But how can I move sheeps to the staples?

>>2324261
i think staple workers move sheep when they're ready to sheer

>>2324325
Ok...

I just can't be arsed to actually wage war on manor lords, I do militias for protection against the bandits but after securing a second settlement I have no idea why should I go out of my way to conquer everyone
>mfw I would make for a terrible medieval ruler

>>2324202
Back in my day games taught people things and didn't coddle them.

>>2324261
You don't move sheep to stables, build a sheep farm and the workers will then shear sheep. You don't usually need to staff stables at all; an unassigned family will guide a max of two oxen, a stable assigned family will guide three.

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i thought furthest frontier looked cool since the trailer showed a castle being sieged, but then i watched a video of the combat and the enemies walk in single file line on a road to attack your town like it's bloons tower defense

>>2324926
Just treat it like Pharaoh where the combat is shit and focus on your city building.

>>2324928
i want combat though. a combination of RTS with logistical city building is what i am looking for. does the new roman anno game have good combat and city building? i saw it lets you siege things but i didn't watch enough gameplay to know if you can build with attention to logistics and trade