I play the bloatmod for Civ4Col (WTP).

>>2274633
You forgot to add FreeCol. All three games you mentioned are good. Play them all.

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thanks I got the original Colonization on GoG just tonight along with Imperialism II (people seem split on liking Imperialism I vs II more but I like the idea of going to the New World). trying to tweak my DosBOX settings though, the text is a bit hard to read but maybe that's just the font? anyway I'm tired of these newer 4X and turn based games and looking forward to getting into some older ones (big fan of MoO 1 and 2)

>>2274633
I would say try original first then IV mod. Both are good, but you'll appreciate the IV mod more if you try original. Original is also simply sovlful.

>>2274633
Oh and Imperialism I and II are the same concept. Both good and I find it hard to go back to I, but I wish some of I's stuff had made it into II.

>>2274633
Definitely don't play the civ4 spinoff since it's utter dogshit. Imperialism games are significantly different in a sense of colo being a classic 4x while imps are proper gsg games with diplomacy and such.

Also it's a pretty good idea to build cities on those ore patches or pre-plowed land. Worker independant free resources and early ore into early tools is really nice to have before specialists come online.

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>>2274633
Definitely go for the original col. The gog version runs like a dream.

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The scoring screen for the original Colonization is such pure soul

>>2277062
>getting an infectious disease named after you
th-thanks

I tried to play Civ 2 when I was like 10 and got filtered hard
I played Civ 4 in my twenties and it made me a devotee of the franchise
Civ V is my favorite, I don't think the sequels made anything more enjoyable so that's my Civ.

>>2278013
A colonist is traveling through New England when it starts to rain. He decides to wait out the storm in a nearby pub. The only other person at the bar is an older man staring at his drink. After a few moments of silence the man turns to the backpacker and says in a thick Irish accent:

"You see this school? I built this school with my own bare hands. I cut down every tree and made the lumber myself. I toiled away through the wind and cold, but do they call me McAnon the school builder? No."

He continued "Do you see that stone wall out there? I built that wall with my own bare hands. I found every stone and placed them just right through the rain and the mud, but do they call me McAnon the wall builder? No."

"Do ya see that pier out there on the lake? I built that pier with my own bare hands, driving each piling deep into ground so that it would last a lifetime. Do they call me McAnon the pier builder? No."

"But ya fuck one goat.."

>>2274643
You made me install freecol from my repos. Let's see.

How does combat between freecol and original compare? I hated freecol's combat, seemed way too random. Stacks of veteran dragoons would lose their horses to a brave, while an armed colonist would win the fight.

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>>2280769
1:1 same in my experience. It's not really random either but if the game pulls a shitty PNG seed you will get fucked.

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>>2280769
>>2280786
This is what I'm talking about. The game can decide to give that brave +600 or so now and then.

>>2274633
Original to learn the ropes and casual fun.
OpenCol for multiplayer and fun.
ColCiv4 to realise they went pants on heads retarded
CC4 mods to get some "edgy" takes on American colonialism in some of the ultimate bloat mods ever made

tl;dr OG for SP, OC for MP

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>>2278129
>Played 2
>Got into 4 really hard
>Insists 5 is the best
Ask me how I know you actually started with 5 in your mid-to-late teens and then got filtered when trying prior games. And by filtered I mean "it's not like 5, so I stopped paying attention after 30 minutes and uninstalled" rather than "I'm too dumb for this"

>>2280769
The combat is literally 1:1 port.
Original Col is using Civ 1 combat, so it's basically a dice roll, except there is no actual strength disparity to compare for land units (making terrain modifiers the king) of it all.
Civ 1 had very simple combat model:
(Attacker's attack value + modifiers) + (defender Defense value + modifiers) = total pool for dice size
There are no HP pools, so a loser is removed, and winner remains intact.
Example:
Armor has attack of 10, Knight has defense of 2. Total dice size is d12. On 1 and 2, Knight defend and Armor perish, any other value of the roll means the Armor wins and destroys knights.
And this mechanism works well when there are large pools for the die to be created. But it gets really swingy when you have very low values

In Col, you have following unit values as human:
everyone not listed below gets just captured/killed
1 for scouts
2 for anyone carrying muskets
3 if they are veteran soldiers
3 if they are dragoons, but they first lose their horses (note the combat value is unchanged, you just gain extra HP box)
3 for damaged artillery
5 for artillery and damaged artillery attacking
7 for attacking artillery

So in practical terms, you have situations like
Attacking colonist with muskets + Defending Brave = 2 + 1 = 3
So you have a d3 roll, and you have 2/3 chance of winning it
So 66% you will win, 33% the brave will. It's VERY swingy. And if the Brave is standing in helpful terrain, you turn that into 2+2, and only 50% chance of winning, making it a coin toss.

tl;dr combat is super-swingy, because the values used for it are so low and there is close to no disparity between units; terrain modifiers are super important (so you want to get as many super-soldiers during declaration of independence as you can, as they gain access to injun terrain bonuses)

>>2280874
Sorry, I messed up the values for units. But to simplify:
0 for civilians
1 for scouts
2 for armed civilians
+1 for making them dragoons
+1 from veteran soldier
+ 1 from continental status (but must be veteran soldier first)
5 for artillery, -2 if it's damaged, +2 if it's attacking

Thus:
Armed civilian vs Brave on hills is 2 + 2 = 4
And there is 50% for the civilians to win
But
Veteran soldier vs Brave on hills is 3 + 2 = 5 and 60% of win
Veteran dragoon/Continental Army vs Brave on hills is 4 + 2 = 6 and 66% chance of win
Continental Cavalry vs Brave on hills is 5 + 2 = 7 and 71% chance of winning
Artillery vs Brave on hills is 7 + 2 = 9 and 77% chance of winning

Notice the miniscule changes of winning chance, and how poorly it scales, because the game lacks proper scaling while having the original Civ's combat mechanics.
If it had Civ 2 combat, shit would be far less random, but Civ 2 wasn't even developed yet when Col hit stores.
And no matter how you gauge it, original Col was half-baked game that tries way too many things without first truly playtesting them or even having capacity to make them happen. Combat could be easily solved by using higher values in it, but nobody thought about it, so you have random swing dominating the day, and your best chances of winning are 87.5%, when it's artillery in the open attacking Brave in the open. That means in the most favourable conditions, you have 12.5% chance of failing.

>>2280933
No you were closer the first time around
https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_units_in_Colonization_(1994)

>>2280954
That list lies to you, by claiming that civilians have 1 in combat.
Either they actually don't, or they effectively don't, because the combat resolution with unarmed civilians always will lead to their defeat - not a chance, but a guaranteed, pre-defined outcome

>>2280954
The end result is still the same, but with more clear layout.

>>2280972
Civilians most definitely can defend, however, they have a few different debuffs under the hood, so it LOOKS like they are always losing. In reality, if they are in settlement, they have effectively 1, and thus can easily pwn you when the best you have is a veteran soldier with 3.

>>2280972
>but a guaranteed, pre-defined outcome
Give that a test in game and you'll feel awful silly.

>>2280988
Sure, if the end result is someone yapping without knowing what they're talking about then sure, it's the same lol.

>>2281013
I mean it's still clearer to list the +1s that come after being armed, rather than than making it unit specific. Not my fault >>2280972 apparently never played the game.

>>2281051
Fair. It's still the classic civ experience where a spearman will fuck up your tank if the game decided to do so on the current PNG seed. I remember testing my luck with wagons negotiating with natives before assaulting but nowadays I just humanwave a shitload of artillery and hope for the best.

>>2281068
The funniest part about the spearman meme is that it actually originates from... Civ 3.
Which has a FAR more complex and less random combat system with veterancy tiers, HP, separate attack/defense, modifiers and what not... and yet for whatever reason, spearmen routinely beat both versions of tanks.
At least it made perfect sense in Civ 1, while in Civ 2 it could still apply via simplified resolution (just not as much as in 1). But it's 3 that put the meme on the spot.

t. lost tank to spearman literally yesterday

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>>2281133
Always figured it came from call to power.

>>2278129
i dont get how you can go from civ4 to 5 and not get bored to death, nothing happens in that game and AI is really stupid, nice visuals though

>>2281214
nta but I can see vanilla 5 more enjoyable to vanilla 4. Definitely not modded 4 tho.

>>2281248
>but I can see vanilla 5 more enjoyable to vanilla 4
Ask me how I know you never played 4

>>2281248
You haven't played Civ4 have you?

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>>2281794
>current year
>>playing games

>>2281775
I'm married since 2010, but whatever floats your boat, mate

>>2281838
Ask me how I know it's a gay marriage

>>2281775
>>2281830
>>2281863
... is this how you spend your Friday afternoons?

>>2281876
Clearly. Also concession accepted.

>>2277062
How is a university higher then a river?

>>2277062
core memory unlocked
>>2278234
jej

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>>2281248
>vanilla 5
Grab a (You)
5 is fucking unplayable without expansions and heavy modding (VP at the very least).
Whereas you can play bare Civ 4 and enjoy it (and good luck getting it nowadays without the expansions anyway)

>>2282141
The same way how UNL is more known (at least people know more or less where Nebraska is) than where the fuck Platte River is.
And if they do know that river at all, chances are it's because they've played Oregon Trail as kids

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>>2282899
Correct me but wouldn't that be base game? Vanilla is almost always related to lack of mods.

>>2281248
The only way somebody would write something so retarded and incorrect is if he never played civ4

>>2282910
... and in both cases Civ4 > Civ5, so what's your point?

Is it me or was the civ4 col a bit lacking?

>>2283535
No, Civ4Col was regarded a complete disappointment. The bloatmods don't exactly help with the reception, they just exist to placate autismos without fixing the fundamental issues of the game.
Considering original Col was a lacklustre game in the first place, the whole "brand" (quotation marks badly needed) is fucked. The closest this whole idea was to a functional game was FreeCol, but that's a freeware, so go fucking figure.

>>2283649
>FreeCol
I never like the maps are generated.

>>2274633
Both sucks

>>2283663
That's probably because you are generating way too big maps.
If you need to check if your map is too large, do following:
>Gen Norf America
>Check how thick is Florida
>If it's thicker than 2 squares, your map is too big
>If it's thinner than 2 squares, yuur map is too small
That's about it. There is a rather wide range of what passes as "big enough", but Florida is agreed to be a great measurement on map size. Either way, you need a Florida thin enough to be small, but thick enough so there is no port shortcut for ships from OG Col

>>2283674
Original Col at least gets a pass due to the sheer fucking limits of the tech involved and primitivness of the engine.
Civ4Col is shite, no excuses.

Sid Meier's Colon

>>2281133
That's because tanks are cavalry and spearmen beat cavalry :)

Why in original col and free col you can't have petty convicts and indenture servants get educated by the natives?

>>2284469
>indentured servants
You absolutely can

>>2281133
>The funniest part about the spearman meme is that it actually originates from... Civ 3.
It's older than this, from civ 2 at least. Perhaps civ 1, but I didn't play that one.

I always thought the colonisation version of civ is way better. The resource management, colonial competition, more realism, massive endgame fight (no napoleonic troops vsing tanks). Would kill for a sequel.

>>2278129
Have you gone back to Civ 2?

>>2284469
Literally THE best way of making use of indenture servants is to send them to the injuns.
Have you tried playing the game you are talking about?

>>2284469
>Turn criminal into missionary
>Send to nearest Indian camp
>Send servant there for training
>If it's capital, it will be always viable for training
... so the fuck you are talking about?

>>2284872
>>Turn criminal into missionary
You can also turn him into scout and sent him to any village again and again. There's a chance they make him expert irregardless of how many times you've been there already.

>>2284905
... or you could make him a missionary and reap 10 times greater profits than from wasting time and energy for no real, actual gain.

>>2284913
I mean if you're into profit you'll do better burning the whole lot with cortez unless it's one of those aztec villages that gives a full load of silver for 50* while buying tobacco and rum for several k each. That buys a lot of ore miners for inflation and tax free 600* a pop. What I'm talking about is turning that criminal into useful colonist early game.

>>2284935
>Being really this fucking clueless
Native converts + less shit from natives due to missionary > whatever shitty noob moves you are describing
Seriously nigga, this game is 32 yo. How the fuck you suck so bad at it?

>>2285082
Listen pilgrim, I don't know who shat on your prime sugar but don't take it out on me with your bitchfit. What I'm saying is how certain Aztec and Inca villages can sell your wagon a full load of 100 silver or ore for 50 cash while buying 100 loads of tobacco or rum for 2-7k cash. Each. That cash infusion means importing expert ore miners that have a fixed price of 600*, and it's not like anything is stopping you from retraining them as whatever while you flood the new world with presumably welsh bums. Also you want to play nice with the injuns, that's fine. But I like those 20-160k* treasures "civilized" villages give.

>convertmaxxing
Yeah, that's cool but it's not exactly exclusive with torching most natives. Who was it, Sepulveda I think who nearly guarantees "converts" when you attack a village. You can get 5-10 per each village that way if you're lucky. Problem is getting de las Casas early-ish and then being stuck with a whole bunch of dirtfarmers that can't be armed or educated as experts.

>this game is 32 yo
2025-1994=31 :)

I'm about to play original col and free col what am I in for?

>>2285389
https://youtu.be/0bkJzpo-mNI

>>2285392
What's the joke?

>>2285450
Precisely.

What are your guys strategy and tactics when playing this game?

>>2287623
>strategy
Either Fur or Cigars. Rum is only good if you play real world map
>Tactics
Getting as many veterans before independence as I can (30+) and hoping for the best with combat rolls, simply sitting inside the 3 coastal colonies I have. Any cannon you can get is great, but soldiers are just so much cheaper

>>2287623
Bully AI and stack artillery and when in doubt
https://youtu.be/Jkef5XjX5Oc?list=RDJkef5XjX5Oc

>>2285389
>original Col
Either a massive English colonist spam or a big buck as Dutch. Any other start is going to chew you out as a newfag
>FreeCol
Sweden YES!
Nobody comes even close to those guys thanks to a really strong start.

>>2287623
Bully the living hell out of AI and spam pioneers.
Someone post the road maxx south america gif

>>2287623
Make a shitload of tiny coastal cities at the start. Even if it's one fag generating bells and you're going to abandon it later. Works for silver mining outposts too. Best value if you plop them on resources that run out for example coastal rainforests and swamps with ore or those you can't fully exploit yet like tobacco or cotton. The immigrants in europe are capped by your city number and labor free resources ain't no joke especially if you set them up in series of four and daisychain that ore or whatever to a central processing hub. Early tools and guns to sell, or use, are great value.
Make your cities in series of four with 3 growers feeding resources with convoys to a shower with eventually a custom house and factories that ideally has a double fishery, deers or any other double food tile. Again, you're looking for high food output for free colonists earlier on and to sustain shit like tons of experts cranking out refined goods and hammers later. Even plowed rivers are acceptable. Start education early. Basic colonists have a chance to become expert thru working modified by total pop in that city, gov efficiency and if that tile is improved. So basic colonist working on plowed prime tobacco can become an expert in ~8 turns when alone in a teal city, ~16 in green and up to ~32 turns in regular white. Convenient if you can't import that kind of expert and all natives offer expert miners and sugar planters.

Don't put horses everywhere since that cuts into your food production. 200 food = free basic colonist. And don't completely exterminate the AI. Leave a colony nearby, contain it with forts with dragoons and enjoy the steady trickle of new colonists from their beaten troops. Bonus points if you have a privateer or two nearby because the AI will import lots of tools and muskets and getting those for free quickly pays off the privateer cost with how expensive they can get lategame.

>>2287623
>>2288400
Oh yeah and two more things you should keep in mind. It's almost always preferable to sell via custom house or either to natives or other colonies because you'll crash the market. When you do, and that's fine, just be prepared to pivot to a refined good. Furs suck? Coats. Coats suck? Don't keep at it, better send that fucker to farm or collect ore or timber which you'll never have enough later than sell them for 10 a unit or wait 80 turns for the price to recover.

And DO NOT cut coastal forests if you can avoid it. Redcoats are much stronger in a standup fight but if you catch them in forests you get to have payback for what injins did to your graycoats for the entire game since your bluecoats have the same ambush terrain bonuses as natives.

>>2287623
Pretty much what >>2288400 said. The key is to have small, coastal settlements that produce whatever they are making, but the guy inside is just bell-producing.
If you set things up right, you can even keep some those settlements (they will be green sooner), but most of them are for short-term bell spike and fishing out good Founding Fathers ASAP.
The only thing I disagree is the focus on food production. See, if you set up all those coastal settlements, they also shit out free cross each, and suddenly you are making 10 crosses/turn, so the European ramp-up colonist pretty fast. If you get Brewster early on, you will get maximum benefit out of it, and Brewster combined with FoY events is bank.
But both approaches are valid, so it's more of a preference than one being superior to other (and eventually, home-grown population will be more important anyway)

>>2290456
Oh, and remember - Jefferson increases bell production of Elder Statesmen, NOT bell production in general. People often get this confused, rush for Jefferson and get fuck all of benefits, since they had a single statesman across all the settlements.

>>2290456
FoY in original Col is pretty fucking annoying, especially if you trigger it too early
>Can't ship all those people to the colonies
>Crosses production decreases by 2 per person in the dock, you have at least 8 of them there, so you get -16 crosses/turn
>But because 8 colonists were produced, your need way more crosses to get another colonists
>If you build even a single church, you just fucked yourself in the ass

And for the same reason you are wrong on reliance on crosses made from bumper colonies: sure, you are getting 10 crosses from just having those colonies, but unless you ship off the resulting colonist fast enough, you then get 8 crosses, because there is a guy waiting in the dock. It's handy, but getting food from bumper colonies and just collecting it in a single settlement is FAR more effective, especially with shitty choices back in Europe. This also allows to pick only specialists back in Europe, but ignore free colonists (and this is where Brewster comes in handy - by removing criminals and servants, you have wider margin for specialists)

Never, ever, under any circumstances, train in your colonies: Lumberjacks, Ore Miners and Lumberjacks. Same with Silver Miners if you have any use of them. Always hire them in Europe, they are so fucking cheap, it's waste of slot in school and also waste of time and production. Just buy them. Hardy pioneers are the breaking point - because they get their tools for free, they are the last expert that's worth more to be bought than trained.
Conversely, never, ever hire Veteran Soldiers. They are too expensive to make this shit work. You can reliably get them by simply fighting Injuns and other Euros. For a price of 3 colonists (or rather 3 Ore Miners) you are getting 1 Veteran, and he has only 16% better combat chances, so just buy miners, arm them and send them to fight
If you are hiring or even simply picking Jesuit Missionaries or Preachers, you are retarded. Only if you get free Preacher early, pick him

>>2278234
>ya fuck one goat.."
at least talibans didn't migrate to USA.

>>2290456
My reasoning is I don't like the starting english caravel and crosses required scale for each new immigrant while food cost doesn't. And hear me out, it's not like you give up one for the other or will suffer something from starting your eugenics program nice and early.

>brewster
Sure. But those criminals can also get educamated while raiding AI colonies for volunteers to work my cotton fields. I feel getting some without him is the game's way of telling me, son, it's time you got out there and kicked some french in the teeth.

>>2285392
>>2285458
>accurate
that's the joke. white saviours all look handsome compared to fake indians. just look at the old photo. the native amurikans all look like sun dried raisins.

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>>2290563

>>2290514
>Lumberjacks, Ore Miners and Lumberjacks
I'm pretty certain one of those Lumberjacks was supposed to be a Gunsmith, since they are criminally underpriced due to technically needing a lot of extra infrastructure to work at all (which is a lie)

Question:
Couple of years ago, some guy remade all the music pieces from original Col. Most were okay-ish, but the one that plays during intro, was made into an epic tune.
Anyone still has it? Searching for it is a bitch for obvious reasons.

>>2291067
I just play the OST from tropico 1 and 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQcolipT0ZY&list=PLDPDaU77rVJtucypb8ua2ChlhgLUlzSR0

Is there's any point of playing the officials maps?

>>2287623
camp an island / peninsula with some ore and lumber
play tall with 3 or 4 cities there, piratefagging, 100% republican asap
immigrants get sent off as scouts, soldiers and pioneers until they die

I'm playing the Americas map and got the Caribbean starting posting should I restart?

>>2291447
Or just sail four-five turns to florida...

>>2274633
I would like to congratulate the Tupi. From a punching bag native tribe in Colonization to a full blown civ in AOE2! clapclapclap

>>2291447
>>2277029

Is there any reason to do liberty bells at the start of game or focusing on resources better?

>>2292309
Bells are both resource multiplier and tech