>Nothing every happens: the game >Age innovations STILL bugged and often wont show up in later ages for missing the prerequisitesDid you finally accepted that removing mana was a mistake, /vst/?
I accepted paradox will never make a good game. I'm genuinely so disappointed with this.
>>2282867You need at least 51 simultaneous threads to convince me
>>2282867I too dislike the EUV, but you are clearly a retard. >cuts of the year from screenshot>still visible that you didn't play that long because it is just the second age>england getting overtaken by noble rebellionThe biggest issue is that as always PDX was too retarded to even properly implement the starting situations of the nations, using english conception of state unilaterally for entire europe and soulless writing and in engine 3D portraits.
Hordes and other non-feudal or republican states need to be nerfedJalayirids and Eretnids surviving into the 19th century is very immersion-breaking
I claim this thread in the name of TudorThe child murders will stop
So, when do you usually give up and turn on building automation?
>>2282946depends how big i am obviously. i wish they'd make a little menu to configure it, like forbid it to make forts.
>>2282867>>Nothing every happens: the gameAI blobs hard on the newest patch
>>2282867The game needs a loose version of the previous mission trees to make the AI do something.
>>2283041ai would have to actually actively attempt to complete missions for that to work, which they have never done
>>2283041The AI is incapable of actually winning anything unless it's massively biased in their favor.
>>2282946usually when im at the point where im accumulating too much money to spend myself and trying to just spam mass build stuff.like right now in a campaign im making 5000 ducats a month and have 550k in the bank so I just turned on building and rgo automation
should you be dividing all your fleets in smaller groups that have a full front instead of one where the most of ships are in reserve?
>>2283043colonization in eu4 was much more historical
>>2283261Not really, it just started in a time when the only countries who historically colonized got a chance to develop the means do so before all the good places were snatched up. And Portugal usually ate the whole Carribbean due to being first
Do colonies send out their own explorers, and do you get their vision? And is there a better way to get maps from other countries than stealing them? I can't see shit.
>>2283892they probably should be doing thatnah, stealing is much faster, less clicks
So how is this compared to 4?I skipped 4 but it looked like it did a lot of interesting stuff within your own empire.Eu3 is pretty much just making sure you can keep declaring war to tick down infamy so you keep getting more land.But it would be nice to do things at home that have meaning.
>>2284267Ah fuck.Thought this was the eu5 thread, not the hate thread.
The Paradox forums are furious that the game is updated too much.https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/can-you-please-start-running-at-least-one-observer-game-before-you-push-out-patches-or-hotfixes-and-take-some-pride-in-your-work.1885630/ Took 12 posts to point out that random Spanish holdings in France are somewhat historical.
>>2284273Forumtroons don't care about historical 'accuracy' unless it involves buffing their particular thirdie shithole
US needs more content
>>2284267>>2284270Without mindless hate, the biggest problem with EUV is that it has the kind of "elastic pseudo-economy" that Paradox (and most game devs with an "economy" in their game) uses in their games, but they keep trying to enlarge it into being a real economy - but without moving past the elastic pseudo-economy features and as a result their economy just doesn't make sense.Characteristics of video game EPEs: - products have "default" prices that they gradually revert to over time. in a real economy there is no "default" price even if boomers and commies think there ought to be - prices can be distorted up or down when a bunch of the product is bought/sold on a market, but they're typically not the result of a supply-demand equilibrium calculation based on the amount of money chasing goods, and rather just some fixed multiplier - somewhat tied in with the previous two points, currencies are treated as having inherent value, partly due to fixed or scaling prices of some in-game costs (such as units or decisions), partly due to the elastic nature of prices towards a default - currencies often aren't even stockpiled in most parts of the economy. they usually are in government cash reserves, but otherwise, in pops/companies/estates/etc they're more of a kind of abstract power level. frequently, how much a pop or estate can buy is just based off some abstract comparison of their current "gold mana" vs their desired products' deviation from the "base price" without an actual required transfer of hard quantities of money to buy hard quantities of product - because of this, inflation & deflation can't be modelled directly and are instead arbitrary modifierscont
>>2284267>>2284270>>2284556cont - due to the lack of hard currency quantities, taxation doesn't have the parasitic / slow-down effect on an economy that it does IRL, because it pulls money out of thin air and because there's no inflation, this doesn't even have the parasitic effects that money printing does IRL. this problem is actually avoided in Victoria 2, which is nice - because it does have hard currency quantities, even if the value of money is distorted by "default" prices, at least if you tax your population really hard it'll slow down economic growth while if you minimize taxes it'll speed up growth, so rare case of a Paradox game matching how one aspect of real life economics worksWhat I've described here sounds negative, but there are some advantages to EPEs. They're much, much easier to implement. And for a shorter time period / focused scope, or a particular setting, where you really want prices to mostly just reflect what they were at that moment while creating a thin illusion of an economy, they can work. If you just want the facade of an economy where the player can buy and sell stuff and see prices fluctuate, an EPE works fine.The problem with EPEs is when you then try to build your "economy" out to work more like a real economy. When you want to get super detailed with it, like Paradox is trying in their newer games. You run into the problem that you've built up a very convoluted system with a ton of moving parts and variables where it's really hard to see how altering a modifier here will affect the rest of the system. It's just too complicated. But, because your system was built on a model that doesn't reflect how economies actually work, you can't lean on those fundamental mechanics to deliver a reasonable outcome, and you can't rely on an understanding of economics to help with your system (because it's not actually an economic system).
the problem with railroading is it doesn't work. when was the last time seeing BBB or spain in eu4 made you happy? human-like AI can make more believable worlds than spaghetti-coded event chains ever will; and it will do it without costing you $20 a month
>>2282867>Did you finally accepted that removing mana was a mistake, /vst/?Manatards unironically believe this...
Game still literally has mana>Stability mana>Legitimacy Mana>Prestige Mana
>>2284564>the problem with railroading is it doesn't work*laughs in EU2 AGCEEP*
>>2284609Those have always been ok because they’re ultimately just modifiers like crown authority scaled down (i.e 50 stability or legitimacy out of 100 gives half of what the full 100 would give you). It’s not like EU4 where you have bullshit like Monarch Point mana because you should clearly be able to go from shitshack to NYC by clicking some magic mana button… Say what you will about EU5, but EU4 just took the cheap way out of making an actually engaging strategy game
>>2284556>>2284558>15 year old "libertarian / Austrian economics expert" dots the i's on "real economics"Incredibly embarassing post even by VGH community standards.
>mana badI really don't get why people fixate on mana when Paradox Shit's most blatant, obvious, gamey solution to everything to shit on the player ever having fun or meeting goals is total bullshit scaling costs. You never get to win. You never get to hit a tipping point. You don't get a victory lap. You get artists costing 1.6 Trillion Ducats and 5 more regiments than the country 1/100th your gdp right next door. It is literally braindead and anti-fun created by people too stupid to balance the game any other way.
>>2284653If you disagree feel free to explain how you think it's wrong. Preferably without any braindead MMT/LVT takes, but I suspect that's where you're coming from so I'm not going to get my hopes up.
I got a popup saying some schmuck had a "follow through on threat" cb on me.What the fuck is that cb and how do I get it?
>>2284666>explain how physical commodities exchange in the post-medieval era is different from my grug-tier notions of 21st century financial derivatives gamblingHow about you read a few history books instead of mindlessly parroting buzzwords you barely understand like a good little polnigger?Here's a few mind nuggets to get you started:- Europe didn't experience significant population growth til the Age of Enlightenment- Europe didn't experience significant urbanization til the Industrial Revolution- overwhelming majority of Europeans toiled in the fields til mid-19th century still- most taxes, duties and levies were paid in kind and weren't financialized- there was literally only one significant shift in long-term mean commodities prices in over five centuries due to colonial gold influxI know asking you to consider fundamentally different socioeconomic substrates of the past that have nothing in common with puerile supply-side brainrot is about as tall an order as asking a plebbitor not to view all history through the lens of tranny idpol, but you could at least try.
>>2285090If you think people didn't use money to buy things in that time period you should really go learn some history before throwing your next tantrum, retard.
>>2282867>Another EU4 fag is getting filtered outThis game is getting better and better
>>2282881>using english conception of stateBut they are using Swedish one, being (duh) a Swedish company.Which is why the 17th century is the peak focus of the gameplay and everything either leads to it, or feels like the after-thought
>>2285090>Europe didn't experience significant urbanization til the Industrial Revolution A bit shallowIt's true that there was nothing comparable to the industrial revolution's urbanisation, and the extreme majority stayed on their farms throughout, but within the period many countries going from e.g. 1% to 2% urbanised is highly likely, which from the whole perspective seems minor but would double the size of the urban perspective, which disproportionately contributed to trade, industry, culture, development of states, etc etc
>>2284657The game is balanced in multiple other ways, but they thought for some reason that they should double up and triple up and quadruple up to fuck with scaling directly. They don't trust their own design.
>>2284666First I hear of MMT, I'll make sure to read up on it. I'd be curious to hear your take on LVT as well.
>>2283261>colonization in eu4 was much more historicalNothing is historical about the entire world being colonised during the 17th century
>>2288051At least it's colonized during the 17th century by Spain, Portugal and England instead of the infinite papal south Americas I have seen in every game in the 17th century
>>2284666>lumping in MMT with LVTlmaoyou can disagree with it, but MMT is reducible to supply/demand
>>2288299They're separate theories, but they're the two biggest brainrot theories floating around these days, usually MMT in the centre and LVT on the left. I mention them together because when someone disagrees with basic economic principles they're always in one of those two camps, when pressed sufficiently.LVT types don't understand supply and demand.MMT types understand supply and demand, but don't accept that it applies to units of currency as well.
>>2288302LVT's problem is that is was created in a time where certain assumptions seemed more reasonable than they were. Technology killed it. The principles are still valuable. Taxation should be directed towards forms of economic activity that generate less societal good.One of MMT's cornerstone is that taxation is necessary for demand or the whole theory breaks down.The brainrot is unknowledgeable propagandists spouting nonsense for influence. You're contributing.
this does not happen in EU3 btw
>>2288302>>2288315So two things I'd like to point out. 1. You're talking Georgism (LVT) and not Marxism (LTV), right?2. One of the chief critiques of MMT is that it's just Keynesianism with extra steps. If you actually reduce it to a model, it's just standard Keynesianism with a "whatever" approach to price stability. This is something both proponents and critics repeat but they phrase this same piece of information differently.
>>2284657Almost no strategy games can portray the weakness of large empires without some kind of scaling costs. Civ and most 4x games have them, every paradox game has them, because if they don't there's nothing to stop the player from snowballing right from the first turn
>>2288315Sure, LVT, when it was created, seemed more reasonable. And in Adam Smith's time (and the form he envisioned it, which was more about price than value) it was reasonable. Marx should have known better by that point and it's only grown flimsier as time goes by. The information age killed LVT stone dead since people will pay for a copy of data that cost nothing to make copy.>>2288350Labour Theory of Value but I made a typo when typing it out the first time so I'm going to keep spelling it that way to maintain my izzat.
>>2288367Right, I was actually talking Georgism. I don't see much value for Labor Theory of Value. I don't really get why people are so intent on it.
Welp I fucked up. I activated No Censorship law and I'm getting nonstop artists coming into the country due to it. I'm at 21 artists and its 1410. My maximum support for artists is 4 but because of the 21 fucking artists I'm spending 85~ ducats a month on prestige slider...
>>2288372>I don't really get why people are so intent on it.Because Marxism is a cult, and Marx HAS to have been right because otherwise the ideological foundations of socialism and communism are flawed. As such, LTV HAS to be right.
>>2288379>Why did Tumblr crack down on the thousands of artists posting shitty pornography? A case study
>>2288372>I don't really get why people are so intent on it.It makes people feel good: "Oh yeah, despite only performing menial labor that require minimal skills on the assembly line, my work really ought to be paid much more, because without me there would be no finished item". Everyone feels like their work is underpaid, LTV scratch precisely that itch.
>>2283028It doesn't blon, it vomits metastases all over the continent. Like Yuan owning random bits of the HRE.
>>2288433What's so cool about colonizing Russia as Bohemia or France anyways, I bet if I did that as a player it would be expensive just to set it up and then I would have zero return from them
>>22832711337 is 100 years too early, what were they thinkingAwful
>>2284267Shit. Stellaris players/"sandboxers" love it though
>>2284564It's how it worked before, and it's an interesting alt history>I like Stellaris. I don't want even a crumb of history in my historical game.>I want a "totally randomized free-for-all" (which in effect just guarantees whoever is strongest in 1337 will continue to be undisputed great powers for the next 500 years)>The game should just have some historical flavoring dripped onto a dead "sandbox">Impactful event that causes a historical alliance, annexation, PU or other thing to happen so the broadest strokes of history still take place despite AI retardation? Railroading! Downvote!>Nothingburger event that lets you hire a mediocre historical artist or priest for 25% of your country's GDP? Oh my heck, YES! More like this, please! Don't restrict player agency!Why do these guys even play EU? Just go play Civ it's exactly what they want.Then 1337 on top of all that, terrible decision to force a century of medieval crap and useless literallywhos like the Golden Horde and Bohemia
what is the con of offering humiliation to peace out one opponent? I'm attacking 2 big tags and peace out with one let me focus on the other.
>>2288616No anon, not even stellaris players like stellaris, and it's main selling point were the actual difference that exist among races, the customization and replayability
>>2288622>Golden Horde >BohemiaLiteral who’s
I really can't understand the thought process behind the anti-missions/absolutely no railroading allowed ever crowd. It seems to be an affliction that exists exclusively on the Paradox forums and nowhere else on the internet. Not here, not Reddit, not YouTube, nowhere. Just the Paradox forums. Their thinking seems to be:>Railroading bad. We cannot articulate why, but it is.>If an ahistorical event such as the Golden Horder existing in 1800 happens, it must not have been railroaded>Since railroading bad (we're not sure why but we all know it is), this outcome is good>Therefore, the more ahistorical this history game is, the betterI can't believe these absolute retards are the ones who have Paradox's ear via the forums. They're such a small population of the playerbase and nothing they say even has any thought process behind it.
>>2289311>people shit on paradox for making the last set of EUIV DLCs nothing but mission tree shit instead of even trying to make new mechanics>paradox removes mission trees and tries to make historical stuff into game mechanics>"REEEEEEE WHERE'S MY MISSION TREES"Gay retards who still to this day don't understand the AI didn't actually follow mission trees at all but still pretend they actually did anything (because really all they care about is modifier stacking and slot machine reward sound effects for the player but that's embarassing to admit) are the ones who have zero thought process behind their beliefs.
I hope they don't add mission trees at all.
I hope they add mission trees.
>>2284515Everyone needs more content.Content for the US is in the back of the lowest shelf in the store when it comes to priority here.
>>2289311Is railroading or no railroading even something people have a stance on other than your seething? I don't even understand what the argument is supposed to be, focusing on accuracy or focusing on a historical outcome? None of the games have ever been programmed to follow history, and how could they be?
All this talk about it mission treesBut EU before 4 did not have any mission tree. What is it about EU4’s design that make MT’s a necessity all of a sudden?
>>2289329>and slot machine reward sound effects for the playerWaiting for the horrible day someone realises gatcha strategy games would be a viable market.
>>2289866certain "people" are unable to conceive of fun that's self-guided
>>2289866Achievement addicts.
One thing that kind of bothers me in this game is why they didnt completely remove culture conversion alltogether? Difference of cultures in a state only became an "issue" after the French revolution, and even then the attempts of a different states to influence a culture of their subjects barely ever worked, germanization and russification in Poland failed. Magyarization in Hungary also failed. Most Irish people might be speaking English now as their primary language but they still would not like being called English and still want their own state.
>>2290185Because you'd have shit like Mexicans still being considered Nahua in 1836, retard-kun.
>>2289329If the AI didn't follow mission trees, how come you consistently saw shit like Castille and Portugal colonising their respective parts of the Americas in EU4?
>>2290195Johan was playing with you but you didn't realize it
>>2290195this doesnt happen
>>2290192Im not talking about "natural" culture conversion, that happened through depopulation emigration and immigration. I just dont want the ability to convert my subjects because it never fucking worked IRL
>>2290221at least not in the time frame the game took place.If we are talking state sanctioned genocide I dont think there was enything earlier then what Serbs were doing after the second Balkan war
>>2290231does the forceful Germanisation of Danzig by the Teutons count?
>>2290242I would exclude that, massacres of civilians after a siege happened since ancient times even if the city was the same religion or culture.
>>2290221It's alt-history, chud.
>>2290242Also If I am not mistaken, people of Gdańsk voluntarily given up the city to the Brandenburgians earlier because they didnt like the rulings of the Polish king. It kind of shows how much culture mattered in the middle ages.
>>2289899>>2289329Certain "people" (Total War refugees and lost Stellaris players) want EU to be Stellaris
>>2282946Buildings automation is absolute shit. Playing as England, decided to try automation in 1500. This dumb game built over 20 Armories, increasing the buildings upkeep by more than 40 ducats. I am playing on 1.0.7 so after deleting them I STILL pay the upkeep because of a bug. Fuck paradox and death to all the parashills that actually made me excited for this piece of shit game.
>>2290336>the parashills that actually made me excited for this piece of shit gameThat was Johan and eu4 being an enjoyable game, unless you followed e-celebs and this is your first paradox game, then is on you
>>2290195>how come you consistently saw shit like Castille and Portugal colonising their respective parts of the Americas in EU4?You didn't, you were just as likely to see a Portuguese Caribbean as you were Castillian, or an English Mexico, or any variety of color vomit all over America from whichever random country decided to colonize.
>>2290266>massacres of civilians after a siege happened since ancient times even if the city was the same religion or culture.True, but some were much worse than others. The sacking of Jerusalem at the end of the first crusade was noted for being particularly bloody and brutal. Some of the crusaders that took part were appalled by how far it went.
>>2290221>I just dont want the ability to convert my subjects because it never fucking worked IRLuhh what language is scotland and ireland speaking today
>>2288222I have never once seen the Papal AI form a CN.
>>2284628You have it backwards. Mana is what made it possible to have an engaging strategy game. 5 is just a history-themed autism sim.
>>2288352>state maintenance>army maintenance>naval maintenance>fort maintenance>rebellions>infrastructure maintenance>internal politics>natural disastersNone of these require scaling costs. Just don't make all land immediately profitable for your group.
>conquering land makes you weaker>"war" is just waiting in your country for the coalition to recruit all their levies and just massacring them with a full stack of regulars when they try to siege>no britain, spain, russia, ottoman, or austria formations>nobody actually gets stronger or bigger other than whoever started that way at the game start>making money is just "dude just press the RGO button 10 times!!!!"this game is dogshit and such a step down from eu4. In EU4 i still lost wars to france/ottomans in the mid game if i made mistakes. In EU5 i am the uncontested power and have defeated france and bohemia starting out as a 1 province country on very hard
>>2291716>n EU5 i am the uncontested power and have defeated france and bohemia starting out as a 1 province country on very hardin year 1485
>>2291716>>no... ottoman, or austria formationshave you tried squinting real hard at the map? I think you'll find they're around very early in most runs
>>2291619What does it matter? Language is not a nationality, Irish have their own state and woudnt want to be a part of britain again. Even with scotland, half of them want to be independent in the recent polls.
>>2282867I lament I started waging and don’t have time to get play enough, but I love it. The quirks like innovations getting “stuck” and not spreading seems like more of an interesting factor to me, preventing every game from feeling the same. And I’ve had a game where the Timurids blobbed through the Golden Horde so I don’t feel like nothing happens either.
>>2291874He obviously means that they never get relevant, not that they do not exist. The impact both of them had on history is gargantuan, so them never even coming close to their OTL heights feels very weird
>>2290185Somewhere along the line they decided cultural acceptance should be the only way to get core provinces and so cultural conversion needed to be fairly easy
